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Scorpions: before you give up on easy difficulty, did you test what happens if you level up the skill? Also, maybe the skill works better in v. 61A if you're gonna switch over.

I did exactly that to duplicate, doesn't work.

Did you try to pick the pyramids up again and do anything with them first to try and make them work?

Believe me, my game runs slower than yours. It's the most noticable when I scroll the screen. It takes me over 2 times as long to scroll as far. I know my resolution is higher and there could be another version difference but I hope it's lag. The saving and loading is a little bit slow too. It's not the best programmed game there is.
I just wante to give a short update on the run, as I'm still working on it, although I couln't work on it as much as I wanted.

The most recently found glitch is now fully integrated into the new route, which brought a few changes. The biggest thing I have to fight during runs is not to lose controll of where I go, since faster movement makes that a lot harder. By now, I'm not very happy with the runs I was able to complete, but they gave me an idea of what is possible. Even with some heavy mistakes in the later parts, 32:25 was the best I could get (31m seams realistic).

During my runs I have however noticed something new with the pyramids:
Drop a pyramid at you location and then move it where you want to teleport later. You have to do this without placing it in you inventory, just drag it there. As long as the pyramid is in flight, using the teleporter you still have, will bring you to where you first dropped the pyramid. Once it lands, your destination will be changed accordingly.
I have no way of using this in my run, but should I ever decide to make a segmented run, I already know how to use it.
Did you decide if you wanted to change versions? I hope my short explorations gave you an idea. I can't really get back into it right now.

The new trick sounds cool. Did you add it to the knowledge base already? Also did you try to dupe the pyramids like I said I did? Did it work for you the same way?
Edit history:
Bantaris: 2015-09-15 12:20:35 pm
Bantaris: 2015-02-23 08:55:05 am
I decided to stick with the retail version, as I figured out how to change the resolution. You can simply edit the config file and everything works correctly (the main menu is not centered properly).
It's still good to know that the route works for everybody no matter which version you own. The duplication method not working for you, is not included anymore.

I haven't added everything to the knowledge base yet, but I'll do as soon as possible.

For the pyramid duplication it get the same results as you. I think I misunderstood your description.

In one of those posts you mentioned that you got a pair of "Ancient Pyramids" from a save in the Wastelands instead of the normal ones. At the time I didn't know why there are different pairs, but now I do.
After the cinematic the game teleports you to the Wastelands and the problem is, there is no way back. So if you forgot you teleporters, they'd be gone forever and placing one and keeping the other would allow you to go back, which you aren't supposed to. This is solved by introducing a new pair of teleporters, namely the ancient ones. They fully replace the old ones and can be found nearby if necessary.

To cut a long story short, while you can't keep your old teleporters, as they are disabled. You can only use the ancient ones.
Just now I realised, this also works the other way round. Using the savegames as you described, you can get the "Ancient Pyramids" at the beginning of the game. And Ta-da, they even work! You now have two seperately working pairs of teleporters.
This could make a category, where the savegame duplication is allowed, a viable option.

EDIT: Apparently that's exactly what you wrote e.g. for the knowledge base. Could have realised that earlier.
I think it should be fine but did you check with anyone whether changing the resolution via the conf file is okay? Technically you're not allowed to change anything outside the game menus themselves unless it's strictly for cosmetic reasons. Do you get some advantage from doing so, I've forgotten?

The pyramid dupe trick gets naturally included in the NG+ category which does other save-load tricks too if there were any. I dunno if both RTA NG+ (it's not single-segment if it has loads and saves) and Segmented NG+ should be allowed. At least segmented I think.


         Personal Best        Best Segments        
Troll King: 03:20.32 03:15.17
Castle Stormfist: 02:01.20 01:49.04
The Graveyard: 03:07.31 02:57.36
Council: 02:14.27 02:14.27         
Verdistis: 03:22.05 03:11.24
Dark Forest: 02:24.01 02:16.61
Wasteland: 05:12.05 05:12.05         
The Demon of Lies:    08:21.09 08:21.09         
Total:   30:02.30   29:16.83

After some time of absence, I finally found the time for another couple of hundred attempts. The final result now includes all previously new strats plus some minor additions.
Even though this run is obviously not perfect (especially the 2nd/3rd split), I don't know if I'll put a lot more work towards this category and rather continue with something different like a segmented run or Beyond Divinity.
If you submit that one I'll be looking for it in the verification. Sorry I don't have any time to divulge onto this game. 3 PB segments sounds great. Shame it's not a sub-30 Cheesy

Did you check that it's okay to give yourself a bigger resolution? That might be questioned in the verification.
If it wasn't for these damn loading screens that suddenly decided to be 10s instead of 2s, it would have been sub-30. Angry
Should I decide to pause working on this category, I will go ahead and submit that run. As you said it could be a problem if a bigger resolution gives me any advantages, I stuck to the lower resolution.

For a NG+ and/or segmented run, I have found something pretty neat, if it's considered that. This basically allows to put roughly the 90s of a regular run into the preperation part, because when you leave the town or use a teleporter, the game will crash. The problem is that is has to be repeated for each attempt, so in segmented it'd be a lot less tedious.
I'm not sure but if the loading times vary wildly like that maybe they don't have to be counted into the finishing time (since this game has no in-game timer)? You should ask an admin about that, I have no idea what the convention with timing/not timing them is.

That trick is pretty messed up! I've never seen any game in which you click "New Game" and it doesn't take you to the start of the game. I think it should be allowed though (as NG+ SS or NG+ Segmented). Also, why are you invisible?
I can't be certain, but from the top of my head, I'd say that it was only this run, in which they were this long. Asking an admin is probably the best solution.

Before choosing a class, I clicked on "back to main menu", so I guess the game doesn't know which character model to use (although the portait and the special skill are the ones of a warrior). Why yur're placed ingame, I don't know.
Also, I had the opportunity to play around with the GOG-version of the game. The duplication methode using a container worked fine for me, while this trick doesn't work. You go back to the main menu as you are supposed to.
I don't know what I did wrong then, maybe you gave me the wrong instructions Tongue
Aha, indeed, the instructions on the knowledgebase are slightly wrong and cause it not to work. embarassed
It's grab and hover over inventory -> pause -> let go -> open and close menu -> unpause. It also works with any inventory, so your own is just fine.

I have also played around with the pregame setup to make it both weirder and more timesaving. As the game now crashes everytime a projectile is on-screen, I can't get past the orc attack in the throne room, but it still saves around 4:30m and lets you place the pyramids for later use.
The orc attack is scripted isn't it? Yeah that sounds problematic.

Did you notice a problem with the Dr. Seuss thing in the GOG version too?
Edit history:
Bantaris: 2015-07-19 03:17:31 pm
IIRC there was a problem with the game getting stuck in a cutscene. The solution was to first trigger the cutscene at the enterance to the quarantined area near the poor quaters. After the that the quest should work.
I don't remember having any other problems with the route.

I have also recorded the setup for the ng+ run, as it would be a bit out of context to start the game in the middle of the world for no apparent reason.
That's good for the verifiers I suppose. I still can't think of any other game where you can do it but it seems logical to accept it as NG+, after all that's what it's all about: setup.
I notice you've been working on the game! The bug that prevented others (even if they were supposedly subscribed to changes made in the guides) from being notified about the changes has been fixed - by Nate of course - and so I got a notification. I can see the NG+ is going to be something spectacular! Whenever it shows up in verification (I wish you the best luck with it!) I'll be sure to not only verify it, but also to include it in one of my front page updates and point out how cool a game is that allows this kind of setup! Amazing that you could get so far with those bugs...
Thank you so much for your support so far. I've posted the idea for this run a few moths ago, but, lacking the motivation, I never really got around to do it. Seeing that you and a few others are interested in these runs, really motivates me to restart things over and over again.
As a little treat I have something that has been gathering dust in my recordings.



With this I wanted to test how much you could speed up things, If you could exploit the 16x speed as much as possible. So slowed the game down to 1/5 and sped it up the recording afterwards.
What was previously a 1:10min long and very annoying part, is reduced to 0:22min. I've also leaned a few useful things for the segmented ng+ run regarding cutscenes and where/how they start. From the worst to best possible scenario there is about a 30sec time difference, which confused me a lot during the any% attempts.



After two weeks of frustration and many, many resets, I finally managed to get a savefile of a (to my current knowledge) perfect setup. Although probably soon there are changes to be made, future attempts will be easier. I didn't expect it to be so difficult, still, especially not having an arrow on screen in a camp filled with orc-archers, proved to be quite a problem.
In order to keep up with the pace in the TAS segment (which I don't think will be even remotely possible), I'll have to see how heavily I have to segment the run. From a viewers/verifiers point of view, how visible or disrupting are the cuts (e.g.  after the first dialogue with Janus)?
Or you could try to count how many there are. Tongue

On the matter of creating a new segment. While loading a savestate, it's possible to buffer pause, so nothing gets lost in that and I try to get my cursor to approximately the same position it was before. I used to start the new segment as soon as I either moved my cursor or the game unpaused, so it's never in my favour.
Is this about the right way to do it?
The game IS unique. It has a very singular feel and engine. It definitely deserves the attention. Maybe to keep yourself motivated (and maybe to find more tricks and details) you shouldn't always just think about time. What motivates me is to find anything new, to try something I've never tried before... but then you have to be okay that the run takes a long time to complete.

What is the visit into the orc camp for? What do you mean by not having an arrow on screen? The cursor?

Are you using the minimap or the game view for navigating? If you used the minimap at high speed at least you could use roads and such to know when you've wandered too far. Especially if you're going to be invisible.

What's the wait for at 9:30? And 23:00?

Did you use Hourglass to slow the game down or what? You should mention how to do that in the guide. What do you mean by cuts? In the TAS video? I can't believe you're doing TASing but it makes sense.

"While loading a savestate"... do you mean in a TAS? Do you mean loading a save? So when you load a save file to start a new attempt of the current segment, you're asking are you allowed to pause immediately and use the extra time to position the cursor in an ideal way to save time? Or to give a better viewing experience? If it's the former, you can't because time starts when you have control (and being able to pause means you've gained control). If it's the latter, don't worry. Segmented runs often have little "tears" like that.  Or did you mean something else? Cheesy
Creating the TAS segment was exactly that. I got a bit bored with the normal runs and wanted to try something new. That's why I also played through Beyond Divinity at some point. While the games is created with on same engine, many of the glitches and a few more I could find (one is incredibly useful) are possible. Even after the first playthrough I knew how to entirely skip tow of the five chapters.

I'm not really into TASing, but I saw, that L. Spiro's Memory Hacking Software (as should most other memory editors), the program is used, has an option to slow down a game. I thought I could give it a try and see how it works out. Hourglass doesn't work with the game/my system, although the features I would offer would make making a TAS-run very interesting.
While I'm going to stick with making a normal segmented run for this, the experimenting around was a lot of fun.

The orc camp is part of the setup for the ng+ run. The teleporter there can be used as a shortcut to the orc-councilmember. During the glitch that makes ng+ possible it just so happens, that whenever there is a projectile (what I meant with arrow) onscreen, the game crashes. In the orc camp, this is of course very inconvenient.
In the setup the minimap is very helpful, as shows you all enemies nearby. For example before entering the Dark Forest, there is a dialogue which causes you to uncloak. If this would happen with a troll (of which there are quite a few in the area) the game crashes. In my any% runs, with the speed glitch active, it's useful as you move to fast for the area to be revealed fast enough, so you can't properly see where you are going without the minimap. In most areas I have cues, for how long to walk in which direction.

The waiting in the setup has a reason. Usually the dark potion consumes 5 mana per tick, but for whatever reason sometimes in with the setup-glitch it only costs 1 mana. This makes it extremely convenient, as otherwise I had to use a mana potion every 4 seconds. I wait, because I want it to only cost 1 mana and I don't want to leave the area, because I don't want to walk around uncloaked (although in these two specific spots I knew that there are no archers around).
If you are wondering why the cursor changes at 19:09, I tabbed out of the game to start some music. Grin

When loading a new attempt for a segment (TAS or normal segmented)  I do pause the game as soon as possible. Not to move my mouse into a better position, but into the position it should be form when I created the savagame. If I'm not allowed to do that, my cursor might end up in a more favourable place, but if that's ok, I'm fine with it.
Hourglass is very selective with the games it can run (e.g. Cave Story and Iji) so I'm pretty skeptical anyway. I didn't know the MHS could do slow-downs...

You don't have to worry about where your cursor is when you load Tongue A lot of games allow you to point it wherever you like during the loading.

I have now completed the part that I have also done the TAS for. It doesn't come as a surprise that it is slower, but I'm pleased to see that it's only by 12s.
The main reasons for this would be mashing (of course you can't beat a TAS at that) and the movement. Unlike in the TAS, where, at least in this part, you have the time to actively guide the character along the fastest route, in the segmented run movement was more passive.
At 8x speed, whenever you click to move, the character follows a seemingly random, yet environment dependent path, which oftentimes goes straight through walls or clips back and forth through one (this also has its uses).
So for most segments what I mostly end up doing is I position my cursor in advance, click as soon as possible and then try to click on a NPC, usually to complete/accept a quest, to come to a halt. This of course relies heavily on me being allowed to position the cursor on advance or at least move it accordingly during the loading screen.

Otherwise the only thing that annoys me are the audio cuts, especially in segments that are as short as 0.6s. The video itself appears to be quite smooth. Is there a Limit on how short I can make a segment? Would it be advisable to turn off the music?

Edit history:
LotBlind: 2015-09-16 11:43:53 am
Shiiiiiiiit!!!

I didn't really get bothered by the segmentation at all. Maybe I'm used to it affecting game audio... There's no limit as to how short a segment can be so long as it's justified by the extra optimization (it's a vague concept ofc but just don't be lazy... if you could have taken a few more attempts to get the same thing without segmenting you should have). Also when the segmentation in itself cuts time from the run (e.g. placing cursor or whatever it could be) then it's more or less justified to do it.

I've asked an admin to give input.
As always, thank you very much for your help.
Dragon Power Supreme
What LotBlind said. You can do as short as segments as you want as long as they save time.
Thank you for your quick reply. I'll get right back to it.