Quits halfway
So, recorded segments 1-5 today, but ended up really far behind after segment 5. Here's the video of segments 4/5, so if anyone could comment on whether it looks too sloppy for a segmented run I'd really appreciate it.
SDA Forum
Castlevania?
Other than getting hit in the garden, the main errors (well, not really errors) I see are the platform jumpings. Basically, you jump a bit too high when going onto platforms, so you spend time landing on them instead of trying to jump onto them at the right height. From what I can see, if you had better landings, you could shave around 10 seconds off your time.
I don't see alot of runners minding these type of errors (not even sure if they notice it) but since people are starting to become really picky about the CotM magician mode run so I guess I'll be a little picky here (being picky = better records).
I don't see alot of runners minding these type of errors (not even sure if they notice it) but since people are starting to become really picky about the CotM magician mode run so I guess I'll be a little picky here (being picky = better records).
Quits halfway
Ok, so redid segment 5, as it turns out I saved over segment 4's backup data. I got a much better run this time, including extreme luck on Malphas. I still had a couple issues with navigation through the big Dark Chapel room (went for a trick that I didn't practice enough) and the Treant at the end, but I'll be able to make that up later in the run.
Video
I'm now only 2 seconds behind, which is within my plan. I had made sure that going into segment 4 I had a lead on groobo's run so that when I got Yorick I could make some mistakes. In retrospect, I still should have restarted when I got hit, but next time through I'll make sure that segment is cleaner.
Edit: 1 second ahead after segment 6, although it might have been two if I didn't hit "no" the first time while trying to save >_>
As for the platforming, it's something I've noticed, but even if I land perfectly on the platform, there's still a gap where I have to let go of jump and then hit it again, and my thumb is really slow at that. So, if you notice at 0:48, when I jump up those platforms, even though one I overjump and the other I land right on it, it takes me about the same time to jump off of each. So while it's not something I'm saying I'm going to ignore, it's just that combined between slow thumb repressing speed, and having to visually react to whether I made it on the platform, for consistency's sake I'll probably keep overshooting the platforms a bit.
Video
I'm now only 2 seconds behind, which is within my plan. I had made sure that going into segment 4 I had a lead on groobo's run so that when I got Yorick I could make some mistakes. In retrospect, I still should have restarted when I got hit, but next time through I'll make sure that segment is cleaner.
Edit: 1 second ahead after segment 6, although it might have been two if I didn't hit "no" the first time while trying to save >_>
As for the platforming, it's something I've noticed, but even if I land perfectly on the platform, there's still a gap where I have to let go of jump and then hit it again, and my thumb is really slow at that. So, if you notice at 0:48, when I jump up those platforms, even though one I overjump and the other I land right on it, it takes me about the same time to jump off of each. So while it's not something I'm saying I'm going to ignore, it's just that combined between slow thumb repressing speed, and having to visually react to whether I made it on the platform, for consistency's sake I'll probably keep overshooting the platforms a bit.
Quits halfway
So, another quality check:
I'd really rather keep this, since it's a tedious segment and hard to get the SG to work correctly (although I hadn't used it before this run), but if it looks completely bad, then I can redo it later.
The biggest thing is that I couldn't get the Hippogryph soul, regardless of how I tried to time the slides. If anyone's more experienced with the SG, can you try it on that spot and offer some advice? If I end up redoing it, I'll record a couple clips of that SG with the map screen included, so it'd be easier to see where I might be going wrong.
However, the Hippogryph soul is on the way in The Abyss, and I did get Mud Demon, so it's only a couple second detour at most.
I'd really rather keep this, since it's a tedious segment and hard to get the SG to work correctly (although I hadn't used it before this run), but if it looks completely bad, then I can redo it later.
The biggest thing is that I couldn't get the Hippogryph soul, regardless of how I tried to time the slides. If anyone's more experienced with the SG, can you try it on that spot and offer some advice? If I end up redoing it, I'll record a couple clips of that SG with the map screen included, so it'd be easier to see where I might be going wrong.
However, the Hippogryph soul is on the way in The Abyss, and I did get Mud Demon, so it's only a couple second detour at most.
Visually Appealing
If this is to be the heavily glitched category, the TAS route should be investigated more. I have absolutely zero experience with warping around the map, so I can't say for certain if the route can be perfectly copied. But getting outside the map is very simple, and getting what you need probably just comes down to timing. I expect getting the Menace defeated trigger to be near impossible on console, so I guess that would mean extra warping for stuff like Chaos Ring and Erinys. And I can't imagine the Menace fight going fast enough without Hippogryph.
About categories, I want to try and get my opinion on it out of the way, as best I can, before we bring this up to Uyama. I propose we define a run by whether it leaves the game map or not. That would mean warping around the map, whether by using SG or not, and gathering glitched souls. If you use SG to get past a door or wall to go into an adjacent room, that's not leaving the game's map. Really, I don't see a reason why SG backstabbing should ever be illegal. Because the route using it and the route omitting it are so similar for the first half, why not just go with the faster option? If you really want to see Aguni and Paranoia that bad, that's what a 100% run or an all bosses run is for.
And to respond to Kenny, I don't feel using a glitch itself should be penalized. Rather, how you use the glitch should be the defining factor, cause a glitch can do multiple, different things. Like in CotM, you can use a summon skill to warp outside the map, but you can also use it to reset vertical velocity, and become temporarily invincible. Or better yet, the DSS glitch. You can use it to acquire said summon abilities at the very beginning of the game, or you can just use the early skills to complete the game without having to acquire the cards.
I chose this reasoning for categories because it's universal. This would apply to the other Metroidvanias as well, like Portrait of Ruin. I don't want to define it by SG because SG isn't required to get out of the game map. Nor do I want to define it as "major skips" because then it gets tricky as to what is major and what isn't. See: Ocarina of Time.
About categories, I want to try and get my opinion on it out of the way, as best I can, before we bring this up to Uyama. I propose we define a run by whether it leaves the game map or not. That would mean warping around the map, whether by using SG or not, and gathering glitched souls. If you use SG to get past a door or wall to go into an adjacent room, that's not leaving the game's map. Really, I don't see a reason why SG backstabbing should ever be illegal. Because the route using it and the route omitting it are so similar for the first half, why not just go with the faster option? If you really want to see Aguni and Paranoia that bad, that's what a 100% run or an all bosses run is for.
And to respond to Kenny, I don't feel using a glitch itself should be penalized. Rather, how you use the glitch should be the defining factor, cause a glitch can do multiple, different things. Like in CotM, you can use a summon skill to warp outside the map, but you can also use it to reset vertical velocity, and become temporarily invincible. Or better yet, the DSS glitch. You can use it to acquire said summon abilities at the very beginning of the game, or you can just use the early skills to complete the game without having to acquire the cards.
I chose this reasoning for categories because it's universal. This would apply to the other Metroidvanias as well, like Portrait of Ruin. I don't want to define it by SG because SG isn't required to get out of the game map. Nor do I want to define it as "major skips" because then it gets tricky as to what is major and what isn't. See: Ocarina of Time.
Quits halfway
Quote from Satoryu:
About categories, I want to try and get my opinion on it out of the way, as best I can, before we bring this up to Uyama. I propose we define a run by whether it leaves the game map or not. That would mean warping around the map and gathering glitched souls, and warping immediately to a nonadjacent room like you did from Hammer to the warp room. If you use SG to get past a door or wall to go into an adjacent room, that's not leaving the game's map.
So, to make things even more complicated, under the "adjacent room only" SG guidelines, you can't SG to Abaddon. When you do, you first go through the top corner of the save room then fall up into Abaddon's room. You don't leave the map, but the SG isn't to an adjacent room, just like the Hammer shop warp (although in the video you can see that I actually still appear in the big room before the warp room).
If you want to use that rule, then you'd have to go all the way to Aguni, SG through the fight to get the Magic Seal 5, then open Abaddon's door normally and SG out. If you want to just limit the IB to "out of map only" then the Hammer warp and the warp early Abbadon warp should be allowable as well, leaving only two SG differences between IB and OoB.
It's not that there's a penalty for using the SG, it's just that there's no reason to put arbitrary limits on how you can use it, so if you're using a game-breaking glitch, go ahead and break the game with it.
As far as universality goes, I think it's better to get consistency within the game itself. As I've said before, for NG+ runs, there's no distinction between IB and OoB SG routes, but the non-SG route is hugely different. So, those necessarily need different categories, which really would be best defined as "SG and no-SG." But, going with your idea, NG would have IB SG and OoB SG and no "no-SG" category. While it's conceivable that this asymmetry could exist, it really isn't justified by the reasons you've said so far.
Edit: Also, on the point of "how you use it," I'm not familiar with the games you mentioned, or the various PoR glitches, but in this case, there's only two differences in how it would be used.
I'll investigate the TAS route after this run. I don't think that the OoB SG run and the OoB cutscene zips would be one category, though.
Visually Appealing
I thought you went directly to Abaddon's room. It's been a long time since I've played the game like that. If what you say is true, not that I'm doubting you, then I'll concede to define in bounds as never leaving the game map.
That should be all I need to say. Cause I'm not going to repeat myself. Arguments like this just go in circles and get angry. That's why I'm going to ask Uyama about it.
That should be all I need to say. Cause I'm not going to repeat myself. Arguments like this just go in circles and get angry. That's why I'm going to ask Uyama about it.
Visually Appealing
I just messaged him. I'm not expecting an answer for a while. I'll also edit my post about the ruling.
About your segment, there are a few little things that could be addressed. There were a few times where after falling from really high up, you get landstun. You should avoid that by doublejumping at the last minute. Getting hit by that one slime is icky. There was that one awkward slide before entering the garden warproom. And not having Hippogryph now could hurt you at Menace. Otherwise, it's fine.
And I keep forgetting to mention this, but the quality of the video is amazing. I applaud you for discovering such an awesome setup for DS recording. Is it comfortable? Cause when I ran the game, the setup I used was murder on my back.
About your segment, there are a few little things that could be addressed. There were a few times where after falling from really high up, you get landstun. You should avoid that by doublejumping at the last minute. Getting hit by that one slime is icky. There was that one awkward slide before entering the garden warproom. And not having Hippogryph now could hurt you at Menace. Otherwise, it's fine.
And I keep forgetting to mention this, but the quality of the video is amazing. I applaud you for discovering such an awesome setup for DS recording. Is it comfortable? Cause when I ran the game, the setup I used was murder on my back.
Quits halfway
Ok, I decided that I'll go ahead and redo the segment, I'd really like it to look cleaner. Hippogryph won't be a deciding factor, just because it is on the way through The Abyss and I won't waste more hours of attempts when it's only 4 seconds to get normally.
But yeah, wtf was that @ 2:22 in the garden? I've only seen slides like that in Subterranean Hell, where you get the mushroom, but never angled straight down like that. I think last night part of me wanted to keep it just for that >_>
The setup is about as comfortable as I could ask for. I sit on the floor, so the first day my butt got pretty sore, but as far as hand positioning and whatnot, the SP + VCR is basically the perfect height for my hands and arms.
Edit: Tentative plan of finishing the run on Wednesday.
Also, made a map of where Soma will go in a NG SG run. Here's version 1, I'll add the route stuff later at some point.
But yeah, wtf was that @ 2:22 in the garden? I've only seen slides like that in Subterranean Hell, where you get the mushroom, but never angled straight down like that. I think last night part of me wanted to keep it just for that >_>
The setup is about as comfortable as I could ask for. I sit on the floor, so the first day my butt got pretty sore, but as far as hand positioning and whatnot, the SP + VCR is basically the perfect height for my hands and arms.
Edit: Tentative plan of finishing the run on Wednesday.
Also, made a map of where Soma will go in a NG SG run. Here's version 1, I'll add the route stuff later at some point.
Quits halfway
Okay, going to start playing now and try to finish.
As a side note, I updated the strategy wiki again and added a walkthrough for OoB SG runs.
Out of curiosity, does anyone else plan on making any sort of attempt at this game, even if it won't be for quite some time or might not be recorded?
As a side note, I updated the strategy wiki again and added a walkthrough for OoB SG runs.
Out of curiosity, does anyone else plan on making any sort of attempt at this game, even if it won't be for quite some time or might not be recorded?
Visually Appealing
Quote from Aftermath:
Out of curiosity, does anyone else plan on making any sort of attempt at this game, even if it won't be for quite some time or might not be recorded?
I've been dying to run the DS Castlevanias for years now. But I'm not going to record with a camera again. I want TV input. And my computer can barely handle DS emulation.
I could do runs casually. I've done a bunch of them for PoR alone. They're just not on my to do list as of late; other things take priority.
Quits halfway
Well, it'll probably just go on youtube, but I"m going to add another type of run to my queue for this game.
SS NG+ all bosses. I'll be using OoB warping once in order to get Black Panther pretty early, and maybe a couple other places I haven't fully planned yet. Anyway, it'll be a fun route to plan, I'll be reordering the bosses pretty heavily, and there'll be a lot of places that should make you wonder how I got there. I don't think for NG+ an "intended" route run would be much fun to watch, but I'll be doing a New Game intended route that uses the intended route (again, probably just for youtube).
So yeah, not really being made for SDA specifically, and I should have a WIP completed next weekend.
SS NG+ all bosses. I'll be using OoB warping once in order to get Black Panther pretty early, and maybe a couple other places I haven't fully planned yet. Anyway, it'll be a fun route to plan, I'll be reordering the bosses pretty heavily, and there'll be a lot of places that should make you wonder how I got there. I don't think for NG+ an "intended" route run would be much fun to watch, but I'll be doing a New Game intended route that uses the intended route (again, probably just for youtube).
So yeah, not really being made for SDA specifically, and I should have a WIP completed next weekend.
Quits halfway
Playlist of New Game+ All Bosses speedrun. It's 5 segments in 6 parts, although the extra part is just from not saving early enough.
Completed in
26:25
But yeah, that's the basic route I came up with, it might be better to juggle Balore after Bat Company, but I'd have to test. It was fun to make and I got some good experience for making audio commentary out of it (it was a lot harder than I thought and I redid the comments more than the run). Most of the info about the run is in the video, and any feedback of any sort on stuff would be super nice.
Quits halfway
I was using a PS3 mic, which is a headset thing, although after the first segment I had changed some settings on my sound card, and really should have undid the changes. I agree that it was really overpeaked and I was surprised that it sounded as bad as I did (on the "review" versions I listened to through low-volume speakers I couldn't hear the distortion). I will have to mess with it again perhaps to see how to get the best quality. Was the audio quality in the first segment better as far as not sounding like I'm on the phone?
The other option I have is to use my Creative Zen X-Fi to record the audio, but that seems to have a background hum/hiss to it, so I'll have to see if I can clean it up, and after that if it sounds better.
As for the game audio, I was watching the video as I was commentating, so that's what the BG sounds were, but because I was watching the uncompressed versions (several GB) and I have a terrible hdd, it would freeze periodically. In the future I will definitely re-record the audio when that happens, because it turned out a lot weirder than I thought.
I will probably post another version of it this weekend, but I'll go ahead and do it perfection-styles and try to get the audio commentary to sound better. A couple of options for what you guys want to see though. The runs I can easily put up in a day would be NG+ no warp, NG+ with warping (lv 2 if requested), or a redone version of this. Also not sure whether I should do it on Normal or Hard, just because in terms of entertainment/how the run works, there's not really a difference between the two other than needing to heal more.
The other option I have is to use my Creative Zen X-Fi to record the audio, but that seems to have a background hum/hiss to it, so I'll have to see if I can clean it up, and after that if it sounds better.
As for the game audio, I was watching the video as I was commentating, so that's what the BG sounds were, but because I was watching the uncompressed versions (several GB) and I have a terrible hdd, it would freeze periodically. In the future I will definitely re-record the audio when that happens, because it turned out a lot weirder than I thought.
I will probably post another version of it this weekend, but I'll go ahead and do it perfection-styles and try to get the audio commentary to sound better. A couple of options for what you guys want to see though. The runs I can easily put up in a day would be NG+ no warp, NG+ with warping (lv 2 if requested), or a redone version of this. Also not sure whether I should do it on Normal or Hard, just because in terms of entertainment/how the run works, there's not really a difference between the two other than needing to heal more.
...?
Watching the run now, youtube lag is being terrible in segment two...
As far as a faster way for rahab goes, waiting for the ice platforms to appear, standing on those, and hitting him with a few death scythe specials might be faster. Power up Devil and add all the strength boosting gear you have, and hit him with a regular attack, backdash into another attack and then special cancel for a third hit. Seems doable, but im not sure.
As far as a faster way for rahab goes, waiting for the ice platforms to appear, standing on those, and hitting him with a few death scythe specials might be faster. Power up Devil and add all the strength boosting gear you have, and hit him with a regular attack, backdash into another attack and then special cancel for a third hit. Seems doable, but im not sure.
Quits halfway
In_Pieces - Rahab wasn't alive long enough to spawn any ice platforms.
In current events; my submitted run is obsoleted/rejected, since the TAS route is possible and would be the same category. With that, I started to work on a TAS route run, but turns out I'm retarded, after fighting dmitrii realized I never grabbed an axe T_T
I'll see about trying to get the Axe and Axe Armor soul to drop in one segment, but hopefully no one holds it against me if that doesn't end up happening (I've seen it happen twice maybe).
It seems I've gotten a lot better at the game though, just about all of my segment attempts were faster than my previous run(s). I was able to start learning the Armor Knight stuff that the TAS does:
Also, I'm opting out of the backdash spam. There's a few reasons for this, but the main one is just I don't think I'll be able to do it in the near future.
I'm hoping to have this run finished soon (it's only 5 segments), although it just comes down to how lucky I am.
Edit: I'm putting the run up on youtube in case anyone wanted to see it:
Also, maybe not necessary, but there's a couple verifier things I wanted to respond to, mainly because the misconceptions would also affect the TAS route run.
1) Doesn't matter when you hit the switch for the moat, doing it with an axe armor is just safer, you still have to run the same distance across the room either way, since you are paused for the entire cutscene.
2) Turning around for Balore probably wouldn't have sped it up, given that strategy. There were already a couple times that I swung too quickly while facing forward, so turning around to hit faster wouldn't have really been a good idea. That's also the main reason for slowing down a bit at the end.
3) Lilith doesn't help in this case. There's only two bosses before you get Stolas, and it doesn't increase Yorick's damage, and it doesn't do enough extra on Bat Company to even reduce the number of needed Ukobacks. In a non-SG run, or in-bounds SG run it's necessary though.
4) On the topic of Stolas, they do stack, so it is worth it to warp for them.
5) I had to be conservative with the Black Panther on the way to the long cutscene, since I need the MP for SGing through the door. As it was, I was left with 2-3MP, so I couldn't really have used it that much more in that spot. I think all verifiers complained about this, so I definitely should have mentioned it in my comments.
Thanks at the verifiers for watching the run and for the feedback.
In current events; my submitted run is obsoleted/rejected, since the TAS route is possible and would be the same category. With that, I started to work on a TAS route run, but turns out I'm retarded, after fighting dmitrii realized I never grabbed an axe T_T
I'll see about trying to get the Axe and Axe Armor soul to drop in one segment, but hopefully no one holds it against me if that doesn't end up happening (I've seen it happen twice maybe).
It seems I've gotten a lot better at the game though, just about all of my segment attempts were faster than my previous run(s). I was able to start learning the Armor Knight stuff that the TAS does:
Also, I'm opting out of the backdash spam. There's a few reasons for this, but the main one is just I don't think I'll be able to do it in the near future.
I'm hoping to have this run finished soon (it's only 5 segments), although it just comes down to how lucky I am.
Edit: I'm putting the run up on youtube in case anyone wanted to see it:
Also, maybe not necessary, but there's a couple verifier things I wanted to respond to, mainly because the misconceptions would also affect the TAS route run.
1) Doesn't matter when you hit the switch for the moat, doing it with an axe armor is just safer, you still have to run the same distance across the room either way, since you are paused for the entire cutscene.
2) Turning around for Balore probably wouldn't have sped it up, given that strategy. There were already a couple times that I swung too quickly while facing forward, so turning around to hit faster wouldn't have really been a good idea. That's also the main reason for slowing down a bit at the end.
3) Lilith doesn't help in this case. There's only two bosses before you get Stolas, and it doesn't increase Yorick's damage, and it doesn't do enough extra on Bat Company to even reduce the number of needed Ukobacks. In a non-SG run, or in-bounds SG run it's necessary though.
4) On the topic of Stolas, they do stack, so it is worth it to warp for them.
5) I had to be conservative with the Black Panther on the way to the long cutscene, since I need the MP for SGing through the door. As it was, I was left with 2-3MP, so I couldn't really have used it that much more in that spot. I think all verifiers complained about this, so I definitely should have mentioned it in my comments.
Thanks at the verifiers for watching the run and for the feedback.
boss
I'd suggest being patient and getting the axe soul in the first segment. It's faster to get it then and get smacked a little instead of adding an extra segment. It would be a shame if you'd get your run rejected because of an easy 20s improvement. Don't be afraid of switching between axe/bone and short sword/claymore/axe - the game doesn't keep track of the time in the menu. You basically did the first boss like 10s faster than my test, but lost almost all of it before the next one because of this. Also I'd suggest for you to check what is worth killing and what isn't. In my run I basically kill everything I need to kill to get to a certain level for menace - you can skip some monsters (the witches, for example), by taking damage or just dodging them, since your level doesn't matter in this run. Also I'd suggest getting yorick at the garden's last room - TWO of them are running around above the exit, you can easily get both of them with the axe soul. I think that skipping the save point after yorick and saving at the next one, before dmitrii, would be a good idea - it's not a must, though.
As for lilith: I tested all the bosses past that point with and without lilith and from what I remember getting that soul saved like three or five seconds in the long run. I can't even imagine how I could go wrong with this since I invested a lot of time in testing all possible soul/weapon combinations.
As for lilith: I tested all the bosses past that point with and without lilith and from what I remember getting that soul saved like three or five seconds in the long run. I can't even imagine how I could go wrong with this since I invested a lot of time in testing all possible soul/weapon combinations.
Quits halfway
Yeah, I won't be killing as many things this time around, just stuff that either cost no time (and can't really boost off) or things in the way.
As for Yorick, I kill all four of them, just to help the odds, in that run it just happened to be the first one, so I skipped the others.
For Lilith, I really don't think it saves time at all. If you watch our videos side by side on Bat Company (the only thing it'd reasonably have an effect on) we tie almost to the frame. It doesn't do extra damage on Zehpyr, and the only other things killed before getting Stolas are a couple Skeleton Archers and a Succubus, on all of which it doesn't save time. I can't imagine how you went wrong either
I went ahead and did the first couple segments (although I have to redo the second due to terrible video capture), and I don't think it'll be an "easy" thing to get both to drop. Technical details/whining: However, if the idea of the current segments would be rejection-worthy, I'll see if I can ever get both to drop in one go.
As far as time goes, getting the soul separately adds about 10 seconds, the Flying Armor fight is a couple seconds shorter, and I'll be ending at about 4:20.
The TAS boosts off the head of the Manticore and Golem, which I don't do. The Manticore's movements are too random for that to be reliable, and I've never been able to do the Golem boost correctly, so I'm content with leaving that to the comfort of savestates.
Edit: Failed Boss Rush.
As for Yorick, I kill all four of them, just to help the odds, in that run it just happened to be the first one, so I skipped the others.
For Lilith, I really don't think it saves time at all. If you watch our videos side by side on Bat Company (the only thing it'd reasonably have an effect on) we tie almost to the frame. It doesn't do extra damage on Zehpyr, and the only other things killed before getting Stolas are a couple Skeleton Archers and a Succubus, on all of which it doesn't save time. I can't imagine how you went wrong either
I went ahead and did the first couple segments (although I have to redo the second due to terrible video capture), and I don't think it'll be an "easy" thing to get both to drop. Technical details/whining:
On segment 1, I had a little over 500 attempts, with nearly 1600 Axe Armor kills. There was only 1 axe drop the entire time. In segment 2, I had 600 attempts, killing nearly as many axe armors, and saw no axe drops. There were only about 40 soul drops as well. I'm assuming that with just 4 luck it's going to be nearly impossible to get this to work. As I had said, I've seen both drop in the first segment probably only twice, and I've easily done thousands of attempts for this area.
As far as time goes, getting the soul separately adds about 10 seconds, the Flying Armor fight is a couple seconds shorter, and I'll be ending at about 4:20.
The TAS boosts off the head of the Manticore and Golem, which I don't do. The Manticore's movements are too random for that to be reliable, and I've never been able to do the Golem boost correctly, so I'm content with leaving that to the comfort of savestates.
Edit: Failed Boss Rush.