Castlevania - Dawn of Sorrow

2009-11-12 09:03:52 pm

...?

Well atleast that will make for a much more interesting route. Why do you think paranoia wouldn't be included?
I can start working on testing which bosses are required.

Just out of curiosity, is anyone interested in seeing or doing a julius mode run? I have nowhere near the skill to do a run myself, but hopefully planning out a route and strategies will spark some interest.

Satoryu

2009-11-12 10:51:22 pm

Visually Appealing

I don't know why he wouldn't be required. Just something tells me that's a possibility.

I would be interested in watching a Julius Mode run. But I'd never be able to make it. I am terrible at that mode.

Aftermath

2009-11-12 10:57:11 pm

Quits halfway

I could give it a shot. If you put together a quick segment 1 walkthrough for me, I could throw up a test segment tonight to see if I'm good enough at it.

Serris

2009-11-13 01:43:57 am

You have to kill all bosses except Paranoia to open Mine of Judgment. As for routes:

http://persona.world.free.fr/forum/viewtopic.php?f=12&t=14&sid=1d3985a9ffd7957bc8ce2dc73886cdad

Aftermath

Edit history:

Aftermath: 2009-11-13 09:13:44 am

2009-11-13 03:44:48 am

Quits halfway

Part 1, 2:03
Part 2, 5:43

I went with StuckInAPlate's route, just because that seemed to be getting more discussion (although it was 3 minutes slower than Persona's?). I'm not sure if my Dario strategy is the correct one, but it seemed to go pretty quick anyway.

I make a lot of mistakes in both segments, although at the end of part 2 it was just not knowing Alucard's moves >_>

Edit: I think this will be the fastest route, assuming Bat Company -> Rahab is posisble

Dario (get Alucard)
Puppet Master
Flying Armor (get Yoko)
Balore
Bat Company
Rahab
Dmitrii/Malphas
Gergoth
Zephyr
Aguni
Death
Abaddon
Soma

It avoids any backtracking as far as I can tell, at the expense of a probably much slower Puppet Master fight.

Satoryu

2009-11-13 11:19:39 pm

Visually Appealing

When you got Alucard, you should have switched to him right away. He is faster than Julius.

Aftermath

Edit history:

Aftermath: 2009-11-14 12:46:11 pm

2009-11-14 12:50:38 am

Quits halfway

Just tested it by running across the cutscene room in Garden of Madness (about 3 squares) and both Julius and Alucard took 460 frames. So, I'd suspect that all characters are the same speed. I'll probably stick to Julius most of the run since when he slides from kicking too high he doesn't lose any speed. Just found out that Alucard can backdash repeatedly without any slowdown and realized that this is probably what you meant by faster. My bad, this will definitely be the main form of movement.

Also, I'm going to redo the second part that I posted. I can make the jumps with Julius and kill the enemies I flew over in less time than it took to fly.

Part 2 v2, 5:29

It felt like I handled the Dario fight better, although a real run would have to manipulate so he doesn't warp and I'd need to get better at throwing Holy Water when he does the ground flame move. Sticking with Julius seemed to pay off, and I was able to level up again, which is a plus. I think for the Skeleton Apes that I ran into, I won't throw that first Holy water and just time one to hit both of them, since they're probably more exp than a Corpseweed.

Part 3, 9:06

I mess up on a few things, but I think that the main ideas of what to do in each room are correct. The Dmitrii strategy is different from what Persona and StuckInAPlate had said, but this just seems like it'd be faster.

Also, I get the feeling that I was supposed to activate the warp in the Garden of Madness to get to Puppet Master in the next segment. I'm also pretty sure it was a bad idea not to get the Chapel warp (although I could fix that). Since that seems to be the case, I'm going to test a really weird boss order that hopefully ends up working out.

From where I am now it'll be:

Gergoth
Zephyr
Get Yoko
Flying Armor
Balore
Bat Company
Rahab
Aguni
Puppet Master
Mine of Judgment

Part 4, 12:18

Definitely a stretch of what would be an acceptable segment for even a practice run. However, I'm just taking the first attempt in which I make it to the save point, so this is it.

The main thing I wanted to get up for feedback is the fight. It has a lot of character switching but was the fastest strategy I could come up with. Even then, it takes well over a minute to beat him. It'll be necessary to end the fight as Alucard at least, since you can't switch character after Gergoth's death until the orb appears.

The orb takes 10 seconds to appear, so that's definitely not something to get in a real run. In order to make it past the spinning blade room, I need like 140 HP, so a real run will need to take 2 or fewer hits. The piston room would also benefit from damage boosting, but it's a very small amount of time saved. I run into some spikes at the end, that was just not hitting the character switch button at the right time.

Part 5, 18:37

There's a few slipups, mainly because Alucard's sword is finicky, but again, it gets my general strategies across.

That said, I really liked the water gate skip that I did, I really hate the rooms and the cutscene that you'd normally go through. I figured it was faster to use Alucard on Balore, since each hit does 40, compared with 33 each axe hit and 31 each whip. I didn't test Yoko's damage but I'm guessing it's not faster. Flying armor was a dick at the end, although I probably forgot that I had double jump so it was my fault.

Next time through the Silenced Ruins I'll probably take the upper path, I think it has fewer switchbacks.

Let me know if there are any huge mistakes or strategy flaws (on any parts).

[s]Just tested it by running across the cutscene room in Garden of Madness (about 3 squares) and both Julius and Alucard took 460 frames. So, I'd suspect that all characters are the same speed. I'll probably stick to Julius most of the run since when he slides from kicking too high he doesn't lose any speed.[/s] Just found out that Alucard can backdash repeatedly without any slowdown and realized that this is probably what you meant by faster. My bad, this will definitely be the main form of movement.

Also, I'm going to redo the second part that I posted. I can make the jumps with Julius and kill the enemies I flew over in less time than it took to fly.

[url=http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rUsBnBvjIh8]Part 2 v2, 5:29[/url]

It felt like I handled the Dario fight better, although a real run would have to manipulate so he doesn't warp and I'd need to get better at throwing Holy Water when he does the ground flame move. Sticking with Julius seemed to pay off, and I was able to level up again, which is a plus. I think for the Skeleton Apes that I ran into, I won't throw that first Holy water and just time one to hit both of them, since they're probably more exp than a Corpseweed.

[url=http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EdiGGRh2Jc8]Part 3, 9:06[/url]

I mess up on a few things, but I think that the main ideas of what to do in each room are correct. The Dmitrii strategy is different from what Persona and StuckInAPlate had said, but this just seems like it'd be faster.

Also, I get the feeling that I was supposed to activate the warp in the Garden of Madness to get to Puppet Master in the next segment. I'm also pretty sure it was a bad idea not to get the Chapel warp (although I could fix that). Since that seems to be the case, I'm going to test a really weird boss order that hopefully ends up working out. [spoiler]From where I am now it'll be:

Gergoth
Zephyr
Get Yoko
Flying Armor
Balore
Bat Company
Rahab
Aguni
Puppet Master
Mine of Judgment[/spoiler]

[url=http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Glj9e5wbRzU]Part 4, 12:18[/url]

Definitely a stretch of what would be an acceptable segment for even a practice run. However, I'm just taking the first attempt in which I make it to the save point, so this is it.

The main thing I wanted to get up for feedback is the fight. It has a lot of character switching but was the fastest strategy I could come up with. Even then, it takes well over a minute to beat him. It'll be necessary to end the fight as Alucard at least, since you can't switch character after Gergoth's death until the orb appears.

The orb takes 10 seconds to appear, so that's definitely not something to get in a real run. In order to make it past the spinning blade room, I need like 140 HP, so a real run will need to take 2 or fewer hits. The piston room would also benefit from damage boosting, but it's a very small amount of time saved. I run into some spikes at the end, that was just not hitting the character switch button at the right time.

[url=http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Hy0LVLZYOlE]Part 5, 18:37[/url]

There's a few slipups, mainly because Alucard's sword is finicky, but again, it gets my general strategies across.

That said, I really liked the water gate skip that I did, I really hate the rooms and the cutscene that you'd normally go through. I figured it was faster to use Alucard on Balore, since each hit does 40, compared with 33 each axe hit and 31 each whip. I didn't test Yoko's damage but I'm guessing it's not faster. Flying armor was a dick at the end, although I probably forgot that I had double jump so it was my fault.

Next time through the Silenced Ruins I'll probably take the upper path, I think it has fewer switchbacks.

Let me know if there are any huge mistakes or strategy flaws (on any parts).

Satoryu

2009-11-14 07:53:05 pm

Visually Appealing

Actually, I could have swore Alucard just ran faster than Julius natively. It looks it, and from what little I remember from playing that mode, it felt that way too. But yeah, his backdash still has very little cooldown. Yoko's too, actually, and that one covers a lot of ground.

Aftermath

Edit history:

Aftermath: 2009-11-15 09:58:56 am

2009-11-14 11:43:04 pm

Quits halfway

Well, it's tough to run around as Yoko, since she can't really handle enemies as fast as Alucard in order to clear a path. Granted, rolling + jumping with Yoko is crazy fast.

Part 6, 22:31

Starts off with a fight against Bat Company. I've killed him in as little as 2 forms before, but this is still a pretty average fight. Getting Alucard's fireball to work is the limiting factor on speed since getting hit, attacking, or jumping will all interrupt it. I started to use Alucard's backdash as the main form of movement in long stretches, since it's quite a bit faster. I still haven't gotten it down quite yet, so there are some rough spots (more in the next segment).

I make a stupid mistake in the first water area, I jumped too soon so the second Needle wasn't killed by the fireball (or I shot the fireball too low to begin with), which meant I wasn't able to hit the one on the other side of the wall. It was the first time it had done that, so I lost 3 seconds flailing about while trying to get past it.

I haven't quite decided on what the best way to get past the fishheads is. Julius is fastest at killing them, but I'll definitely want to save MP for Rahab. I think I can use Julius for one more stack and still have MP for 3 lightnings with Yoko, but I'll have to play around with it.

Rahab went well in terms of strategy, but horrible in terms of execution. I could have finished it off much earlier, but was worried about getting hit while doing lightning, so tried to wait. Turns out I got hit anyway, so I should have just done the lightning and finished it 5 seconds earlier or whatever. I saved since it takes almost as much time to wait for the orb, although in a real run I'll probably just try to have enough health to run to Aguni without grabbing Rahab's orb.

Part 7, 26:01

This covers running from Rahab to Aguni, using the Dark Chapel warp to go to the Cursed Clock Tower.

Mostly uneventful, the biggest problem is the Harpy room, where I messed up backdashing. My hands wanted to go faster, but obviously it's a set rhythm instead of mashing the button, so I failed marvelously. You're supposed to make it through there getting hit once, but I get hit 3 times. Actually, pretty horrible backdashing all around, but hopefully I improve (I'd say that this is one of the worst attempts I had as far as backdashing was concerned).

You'll notice that I stop to kill a lot of enemies. This is because I haven't decided which are worth stopping for. The ones that seem to be mandatory are the Horse guys. It's way slower to jump over them than to do a fireball, then backdash through. The Malachis I could probably just backdash through, same with the lion/scorpion deal. I did level up on the Malachis, but it was probably a trivial amount of exp in the long run.

Edit: So, watching part 7 again, the Harpy room and basically everything after that until the horses should be done with Yoko. I have to switch characters anyway to slide under the spikes, so it's not a problem. As I did it, switching characters probably cost more time than if I had just ran into the spikes or used Bat under them.

Part 8 and 9, 27:19 and 29:45

Boss fight with Aguni then running to Puppet Master's save. The Aguni fight went well, I'm not sure how I'd really speed it up. The big problem with this is that most of the movement has to be with Yoko's backdash hopping, which is pretty hard to do consistently and move quickly.

I could probably run through the Final Guards, but they do a lot of damage and I died a lot in this part as it was. I can't really think of a good way past the floating sword and lion. Again, it sort of comes down to needing to kill them since I can't afford the damage, but that sword guy ends up being a huge nuisance, so I'll have to see if running through quickly enough will make him not hit me.

I get my ass handed to me in the fake Yoko room, there's a pattern you can do where you miss all of them, but obviously I failed at that (I've only managed to get through unscathed a couple times). It's possible to dashjump over all of the enemies in the Demon Guest House, but it's pretty hard so I didn't try it (still ran into the Killer Clown like an idiot though).

Part 10, 32:02

Puppet Master and then running to Death. Still pretty bad at backdashing it seems.

Part 11, 34:42

A worse Death fight than I'd want, but it's a really horrible fight, at least with the strategy I use.

I was way overly cautious when he threw his scythe in the second form. The invincibilty timers for the small scythes (58 damage), the big scythe (130), and Death's body (130-something) are all separate, so hitting one will generally rocket me into another one and lead to a super quick death.

If there are any better ways to do this fight, let me know.

Well, it's tough to run around as Yoko, since she can't really handle enemies as fast as Alucard in order to clear a path. Granted, rolling + jumping with Yoko is crazy fast.

[url=http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MU-7w3Iasdo]Part 6, 22:31[/url]

Starts off with a fight against Bat Company. I've killed him in as little as 2 forms before, but this is still a pretty average fight. Getting Alucard's fireball to work is the limiting factor on speed since getting hit, attacking, or jumping will all interrupt it. I started to use Alucard's backdash as the main form of movement in long stretches, since it's quite a bit faster. I still haven't gotten it down quite yet, so there are some rough spots (more in the next segment).

I make a stupid mistake in the first water area, I jumped too soon so the second Needle wasn't killed by the fireball (or I shot the fireball too low to begin with), which meant I wasn't able to hit the one on the other side of the wall. It was the first time it had done that, so I lost 3 seconds flailing about while trying to get past it.

I haven't quite decided on what the best way to get past the fishheads is. Julius is fastest at killing them, but I'll definitely want to save MP for Rahab. I think I can use Julius for one more stack and still have MP for 3 lightnings with Yoko, but I'll have to play around with it.

Rahab went well in terms of strategy, but horrible in terms of execution. I could have finished it off much earlier, but was worried about getting hit while doing lightning, so tried to wait. Turns out I got hit anyway, so I should have just done the lightning and finished it 5 seconds earlier or whatever. I saved since it takes almost as much time to wait for the orb, although in a real run I'll probably just try to have enough health to run to Aguni without grabbing Rahab's orb.

[url=http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=x4dbbLbnKnE]Part 7, 26:01[/url]

This covers running from Rahab to Aguni, using the Dark Chapel warp to go to the Cursed Clock Tower.

Mostly uneventful, the biggest problem is the Harpy room, where I messed up backdashing. My hands wanted to go faster, but obviously it's a set rhythm instead of mashing the button, so I failed marvelously. You're supposed to make it through there getting hit once, but I get hit 3 times. Actually, pretty horrible backdashing all around, but hopefully I improve (I'd say that this is one of the worst attempts I had as far as backdashing was concerned).

You'll notice that I stop to kill a lot of enemies. This is because I haven't decided which are worth stopping for. The ones that seem to be mandatory are the Horse guys. It's way slower to jump over them than to do a fireball, then backdash through. The Malachis I could probably just backdash through, same with the lion/scorpion deal. I did level up on the Malachis, but it was probably a trivial amount of exp in the long run.

Edit: So, watching part 7 again, the Harpy room and basically everything after that until the horses should be done with Yoko. I have to switch characters anyway to slide under the spikes, so it's not a problem. As I did it, switching characters probably cost more time than if I had just ran into the spikes or used Bat under them.

[url=http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=POiwwAc1O-k]Part 8 and 9, 27:19 and 29:45[/url]

Boss fight with Aguni then running to Puppet Master's save. The Aguni fight went well, I'm not sure how I'd really speed it up. The big problem with this is that most of the movement has to be with Yoko's backdash hopping, which is pretty hard to do consistently and move quickly.

I could probably run through the Final Guards, but they do a lot of damage and I died a lot in this part as it was. I can't really think of a good way past the floating sword and lion. Again, it sort of comes down to needing to kill them since I can't afford the damage, but that sword guy ends up being a huge nuisance, so I'll have to see if running through quickly enough will make him not hit me.

I get my ass handed to me in the fake Yoko room, there's a pattern you can do where you miss all of them, but obviously I failed at that (I've only managed to get through unscathed a couple times). It's possible to dashjump over all of the enemies in the Demon Guest House, but it's pretty hard so I didn't try it (still ran into the Killer Clown like an idiot though).

[url=http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oXdgZ1UUqtI]Part 10, 32:02[/url]

Puppet Master and then running to Death. Still pretty bad at backdashing it seems.

[url=http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iYeNn-TVeto]Part 11, 34:42[/url]

A worse Death fight than I'd want, but it's a really horrible fight, at least with the strategy I use.

I was way overly cautious when he threw his scythe in the second form. The invincibilty timers for the small scythes (58 damage), the big scythe (130), and Death's body (130-something) are all separate, so hitting one will generally rocket me into another one and lead to a super quick death.

If there are any better ways to do this fight, let me know.

In_Pieces

2009-11-15 10:56:04 am

...?

I was a little skeptical about your route and boss order when i was watching, but i must admit it turned out well. Except for the obvious mistakes that you pointed out yourself, it looked good.

Satoryu

2009-11-15 01:28:46 pm

Visually Appealing

Can you cancel moonjumps in this game by jumping? Or is that just PoR and OoE?

Aftermath

Edit history:

Aftermath: 2009-11-15 10:35:10 pm

2009-11-15 07:10:30 pm

Quits halfway

Thanks In_Pieces. Although now that I've done all the fights, I probably have to revise the route I put forward, just because MP will be a pretty big issue.

Satoryu: Just PoR and OoE, you can't even jump after Julius's.

~~I'll probably be finishing the last 3 parts tonight, will edit this with the videos.~~ Stuff came up.

Aftermath

Edit history:

Aftermath: 2009-11-17 03:13:24 pm

2009-11-17 01:41:26 pm

Quits halfway

Okay, finished the test run, final time of 42:14. I think the goal for a real run should be sub 35.

I don't know whether most of my saved time came from having a better route or just better movement tactics, so any opinions on this would be appreciated. Because of the whole movement thing, I'm starting to lean towards something like Persona's route, just because Yoko will be the fastest form of movement by far, cutting a ton of time out of the run. But yeah, any opinions on route would be really welcome. *stares at In_Pieces*

Anyway, here are the final segments, the first two have pretty rough play quality, since I was testing stuff during the attempt.

Part 12, 37:18

This looks a lot rougher than I'd like, and I almost went and redid it, but figured it doesn't matter for a test run. So, basic ideas are to backdash past the flames, I'm undecided on whether I want to use Ice on the Rippers, but probably will just to need to reset fewer times. I really should have tested if using lightning on the Astaroths would have saved time, but I figured it'd just be an even bigger headache to dodge them when they come back up. Erinys is random, and so I guess I just need to get lucky and have her charge me, since Yoko fails at attacking, and it's a sand room. Next few rooms are fine. Backdashing through Stolas is the way to go.

Need to fly over Final Guard since Julius Mode people get knocked super far by running into it and Alucard is useful in the next room. I tested out Yoko's attacks in this recording, and yeah, stick with Alucard until the save room.

Part 13, 39:48

Here's what I came up with for how this segment should go:
Abaddon with Alucard
Yoko backdash, jump over the wall, and while falling start the Ice attack (to kill the panther)
Don't kill the Malacodas, should just be able to dodge them
Jump over Stolas
Bat over Iron Golem
Run through the giant slug (need to test for damage but shouldn't be a problem)
Take damage on the slime for invincibilty to run through Erinys
Dodge the spike, take a hit on White dragon and run while jump attacking the Succubus (so she backdashes away)
save

I didn't reset on this particular attempt just because I wanted to be done with this test run. Ignore me trying to backdash hop with Alucard lol, not sure what I was thinking.

Part 14, 42:14

Looking now, it seems possible to kill him on warp earlier, I really need to remember to take the Gaibon hit after the first warp and not do the special. Doing that and being more consistent overall should cut out the extra warp.

I need advice on the second form, Abaddon's attacks are better than me Sad

Edit: I'll try to Bat over him and then attack from behind. Sometimes a bug will go behind him as well, but I should be able to keep up the attack for the most part.

But seriously, any advice on this boss would be appreciated.

Double edit: When I start on the real run, do you want me to post the segments as I finish them, or just submit it all at once?

Okay, finished the test run, final time of 42:14. I think the goal for a real run should be sub 35.

I don't know whether most of my saved time came from having a better route or just better movement tactics, so any opinions on this would be appreciated. Because of the whole movement thing, I'm starting to lean towards something like Persona's route, just because Yoko will be the fastest form of movement by far, cutting a ton of time out of the run. But yeah, any opinions on route would be really welcome. *stares at In_Pieces*

Anyway, here are the final segments, the first two have pretty rough play quality, since I was testing stuff during the attempt.

[url=http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bAxwXcEG0TM]Part 12, 37:18[/url]

This looks a lot rougher than I'd like, and I almost went and redid it, but figured it doesn't matter for a test run. So, basic ideas are to backdash past the flames, I'm undecided on whether I want to use Ice on the Rippers, but probably will just to need to reset fewer times. I really should have tested if using lightning on the Astaroths would have saved time, but I figured it'd just be an even bigger headache to dodge them when they come back up. Erinys is random, and so I guess I just need to get lucky and have her charge me, since Yoko fails at attacking, and it's a sand room. Next few rooms are fine. Backdashing through Stolas is the way to go.

Need to fly over Final Guard since Julius Mode people get knocked super far by running into it and Alucard is useful in the next room. I tested out Yoko's attacks in this recording, and yeah, stick with Alucard until the save room.

[url=http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=91IP-Fvfl28]Part 13, 39:48[/url]

Here's what I came up with for how this segment should go:
Abaddon with Alucard
Yoko backdash, jump over the wall, and while falling start the Ice attack (to kill the panther)
Don't kill the Malacodas, should just be able to dodge them
Jump over Stolas
Bat over Iron Golem
Run through the giant slug (need to test for damage but shouldn't be a problem)
Take damage on the slime for invincibilty to run through Erinys
Dodge the spike, take a hit on White dragon and run while jump attacking the Succubus (so she backdashes away)
save

I didn't reset on this particular attempt just because I wanted to be done with this test run. Ignore me trying to backdash hop with Alucard lol, not sure what I was thinking.

[url=http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IZDfCW08L7k]Part 14, 42:14[/url]

Looking now, it seems possible to kill him on warp earlier, I really need to remember to take the Gaibon hit after the first warp and not do the special. Doing that and being more consistent overall should cut out the extra warp.

I need advice on the second form, Abaddon's attacks are better than me :(  Edit: I'll try to Bat over him and then attack from behind. Sometimes a bug will go behind him as well, but I should be able to keep up the attack for the most part.

But seriously, any advice on this boss would be appreciated.

Double edit: When I start on the real run, do you want me to post the segments as I finish them, or just submit it all at once?

Beenman500

2009-11-17 01:52:59 pm

Joke of all trades

they all look pretty good, i look forward to an enhanced run, hope it comes out soon.

In_Pieces

2009-11-17 02:31:41 pm

...?

I'll watch them now. As far as changing your route, I can't remember Persona's route off the top of my head so i'll have to check that out. The main thing i can think of now is doing flying armor first and getting yoko as soon as possible. You've gotten better at backdash jumping with her, and her ice magic also makes for a much faster and easier dario fight. But I don't know how that factor in and could end up just wasting time if you have to backtrack.

Aftermath

2009-11-17 03:09:11 pm

Quits halfway

Here's what Persona's original route suggestion was, and then what I'm sort of still thinking for a route.

Persona's:

Flying Armor (get Yoko)
Activate Garden warp
Dario (get Alucard)
Dmitrii
Malphas
Activate Dark Chapel warp
Gergoth
Zephyr
Aguni
Puppet Master
Warp to Garden
Balore
Rahab
Bat Company
Warp to Dark Chapel
Death
Abaddon

Mine:
Flying Armor (get Yoko)
Dario (get Alucard)
Puppet Master
Warp to Lost Village
Balore
Bat Company
Rahab
Activate Dark Chapel warp
Dmitrii/Malphas
Gergoth
Zephyr
Aguni
Warp to Dark Chapel
Death
Abaddon
Soma

Most of the changes I'm considering are just to get rid of backtracking, and hoping that the slight increase in a couple of boss fights (Puppet Master and Rahab will be the main problems) will be made up for by the more direct route. Well, and a few boss fights of mine will be faster. Balore has a bit of backtracking still, but it's not very much more and I think it'll be made up for by not doing Dario -> Dmitrii. The other potential problem is that because Yoko sucks, I won't be as high of a level for the beginning parts.

Here's what Persona's original route suggestion was, and then what I'm sort of still thinking for a route.

[spoiler]Persona's:

Flying Armor (get Yoko)
Activate Garden warp 
Dario (get Alucard)
Dmitrii 
Malphas 
Activate Dark Chapel warp
Gergoth 
Zephyr 
Aguni 
Puppet Master 
Warp to Garden
Balore 
Rahab 
Bat Company 
Warp to Dark Chapel
Death 
Abaddon

Mine:
Flying Armor (get Yoko)
Dario (get Alucard)
Puppet Master
Warp to Lost Village
Balore
Bat Company
Rahab
Activate Dark Chapel warp
Dmitrii/Malphas
Gergoth
Zephyr
Aguni
Warp to Dark Chapel
Death
Abaddon
Soma[/spoiler]

Most of the changes I'm considering are just to get rid of backtracking, and hoping that the slight increase in a couple of boss fights (Puppet Master and Rahab will be the main problems) will be made up for by the more direct route. Well, and a few boss fights of mine will be faster. Balore has a bit of backtracking still, but it's not very much more and I think it'll be made up for by not doing Dario -> Dmitrii. The other potential problem is that because Yoko sucks, I won't be as high of a level for the beginning parts.

In_Pieces

Edit history:

In_Pieces: 2009-11-17 04:56:03 pm

2009-11-17 04:29:20 pm

...?

Watched the rest of it. Yes, it needs improving, but i thoroughly enjoyed the whole thing and I'm glad I brought it up and sparked interest Wink

Thanks for posting persona's route, it all came back to me as I started reading it. As far as your route, it will definitely be less backtracking and it should be faster. Only point of concern I have is that bat company is so early. It will be doable, but that's probably going to be a hard fight. Like you said, you're going to be at a low level.

Edit: I'm also trying to work out strategies for a julius mode boss rush. Again, I suck, so I'm simply trying to help out anyone who wants to attempt it. I can see a lot of it being spamming sword hits with alucard, but i don't think it will be boring to watch by any means. Makeshift plans:
Flying Armor- axe with julius?
Balore- sword spam with alucard
Dmitrii- really unsure about this one. yoko's ice magic deals a lot of damage and its easy to evade when he copies it, but it seems really slow.
Puppet Master- Yoko's fire magic. Each cast will hit him twice, and at a high enough level he'll be done before he can hit you with a doll.
Dario- Ice magic
Rahab- Lightning
Gergoth- Lightning, maybe switch to alucard for fast sword hits while the lightning is still hitting him?
Zephyr- no clue, alucard sword spam i guess, but he moves alot.
Bat Company- either yoko's fire magic or alucard's hell fire. not sure which would take it down faster.
Paranoia- Ice magic or alucard sword?
Aguni- Ice magic
Abaddon- Alucard. Spam sword and special to avoid the locust waves.
Death- hard one. the same strategy that aftermath used in the test run i guess, not sure what else can be done.

Watched the rest of it. Yes, it needs improving, but i thoroughly enjoyed the whole thing and I'm glad I brought it up and sparked interest ;)

Thanks for posting persona's route, it all came back to me as I started reading it. As far as your route, it will definitely be less backtracking and it should be faster. Only point of concern I have is that bat company is so early. It will be doable, but that's probably going to be a hard fight. Like you said, you're going to be at a low level.

Edit: I'm also trying to work out strategies for a julius mode boss rush. Again, I suck, so I'm simply trying to help out anyone who wants to attempt it. I can see a lot of it being spamming sword hits with alucard, but i don't think it will be boring to watch by any means. Makeshift plans:
Flying Armor- axe with julius?
Balore- sword spam with alucard
Dmitrii- really unsure about this one. yoko's ice magic deals a lot of damage and its easy to evade when he copies it, but it seems really slow.
Puppet Master- Yoko's fire magic. Each cast will hit him twice, and at a high enough level he'll be done before he can hit you with a doll.
Dario- Ice magic
Rahab- Lightning
Gergoth- Lightning, maybe switch to alucard for fast sword hits while the lightning is still hitting him?
Zephyr- no clue, alucard sword spam i guess, but he moves alot.
Bat Company- either yoko's fire magic or alucard's hell fire. not sure which would take it down faster.
Paranoia- Ice magic or alucard sword?
Aguni- Ice magic
Abaddon- Alucard. Spam sword and special to avoid the locust waves.
Death- hard one. the same strategy that aftermath used in the test run i guess, not sure what else can be done.

Aftermath

2009-11-18 02:16:43 am

Quits halfway

There's a Boss Rush strategy posted on the KB (located here), it's a very slightly modified version from what I think Persona had made.

A few comments on your Boss Rush strats though.

You're always lv50.

When you switch characters in Julius Mode, any subweapon (or spell) that you have out will disappear as well, so on Gergoth if you tried Yoko's Lightning to start off, you woulnd't be able to switch until it's done.

Yoko's Lightning should be used on Flying Armor.

Yoko's fire doesn't do enough on Puppet Master to warrant using her, plus it eats up a ton of MP over just regular Alucard attacks.

Alucard will be fastest for Bat Company I'd think.

How much does Yoko's ice magic do on Paranoia?

Also, what time is a good goal for Julius Mode boss rush?

In_Pieces

2009-11-18 05:25:32 pm

...?

Ahh, i didnt know that about switching with them. Thanks for clearing that up.
At level 50 yoko's ice magic does 173 damage and has the possibility of hitting twice.

Aftermath

Edit history:

Aftermath: 2009-11-19 01:31:53 pm

2009-11-19 01:20:17 pm

Quits halfway

Persona, if you are reading this, can you tell me what times you got in Julius Mode boss rush?

Julius Mode Boss Rush test (5:14.28?)

Can't remember the exact time, but I think that's right. Anyway, I pretty much followed what was in the KB.

So, some notes:

On Paranoia, his cycles seem fixed in Julius Mode, everytime I've done it, he's done two attacks before going back in the mirror. I haven't been able to kill him before he does this, but that's definitely a goal.

I think Alucard may be faster on Parnoia, I think I can do 4 hits with him (268) in the time it takes Yoko to get an Ice off and do 1 club attack (214). If I can kill him before he goes back in the mirror, I'll definitely use Alucard because...

Only grab Bat Company's orb. HP shouldn't be an issue. MP on Death could be though, since I'll definitely want to be able to use the weapon special if necessary, or the fireball. So this means that I'll have to get somewhat lucky on Abaddon like I did in the video so I don't blow through all my MP warping.

And if anyone would be so kind to watch and give feedback I'd really appreciate it. I'm also not sure what time goal I should be looking at, other than sub-5, so opinions on that would be nice too.

Persona, if you are reading this, can you tell me what times you got in Julius Mode boss rush?

[url=http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=A540F6_EWLo]Julius Mode Boss Rush test (5:14.28?)[/url]

Can't remember the exact time, but I think that's right. Anyway, I pretty much followed what was in the KB.

So, some notes:

On Paranoia, his cycles seem fixed in Julius Mode, everytime I've done it, he's done two attacks before going back in the mirror. I haven't been able to kill him before he does this, but that's definitely a goal.

I think Alucard may be faster on Parnoia, I think I can do 4 hits with him (268) in the time it takes Yoko to get an Ice off and do 1 club attack (214). If I can kill him before he goes back in the mirror, I'll definitely use Alucard because...

Only grab Bat Company's orb. HP shouldn't be an issue. MP on Death could be though, since I'll definitely want to be able to use the weapon special if necessary, or the fireball. So this means that I'll have to get somewhat lucky on Abaddon like I did in the video so I don't blow through all my MP warping.

And if anyone would be so kind to watch and give feedback I'd really appreciate it. I'm also not sure what time goal I should be looking at, other than sub-5, so opinions on that would be nice too.

In_Pieces

2009-11-19 04:06:51 pm

...?

I think sub-5 is reasonable, but it's going to be right around there. Better backdash hopping, better paranoia fight, and there a few mistakes here and there, especially on balore and dario(although dario was mostly just bad luck, manipulating a good position for him so he always falls back towards the exit door is pretty easy).
I still think gergoth would be faster with lightning. You can get in a few club hits in between each cast which will help. He just moves up and down to much to sword spam efficiently.

Aftermath

2009-11-19 06:27:41 pm

Quits halfway

Hmm, GameFAQs has a Julius Mode guide, in which the author says his best time is 4:43.80, which is quite good. His strategy is pretty in line with your ideas, Yoko on Gergoth and Paranoia, so I'll switch to that. My Alucard on Paranoia thing still stands, just so that I save 4 seconds from not needing an orb. But yeah, the club on Gergoth works out a lot better than I thought, so yeah, you were completely right on that.

He suggests Yoko for most of Death, so I'll have to play around with that setup as well.

I'll try for sub 4:40 and submit if I get it.

In_Pieces

2009-11-19 07:23:16 pm

...?

4:43 sounds pretty ridiculous. I'm going to have to question the validity of that until i see it done. I'm just no good with alucard to be able to form an opinion about paranoia, so I think that you should definitely go with your idea if you think it's faster. As far as death, I would vouch for a strategy involving yoko as gamefaqs says. Sort of like what you did in the game run, but then again that could just be my bias talking Roll Eyes

Also, stupid question, but were any of your runs submitted? I remembered one of them got rejected, or you decided to redo it or something, but then you did that NG+ that beat it in like 5 minutes...? Whatever happened with that?

Aftermath

2009-11-19 07:58:05 pm

Quits halfway

Yeah, I'd say Yoko's faster on Death, but there were a few reasons I just didn't want to deal with her in that fight. Basically, if he does his scythe attacks at you, Yoko doesn't really have an answer for it other than running away, whereas Alucard can attack, so whichever AI you get out of Death it's way less annoying with Alucard. That and just didn't want to waste time switching characters a bunch, but yeah, I'll get over it and use Yoko.

I'll try to do some more runs tonight, so hopefully his 4:43 is legit.

As for my runs, the NG was rejected since the TAS route was possible, the NG+ run passed but hasn't been posted in the verification board yet, I was going to do a NG run following the TAS route, but I've still yet to get the drops I need. I'll probably switch to an NG non-major skips run instead of that though, since it's been what I've sort of wanted to do. I sort of stopped working on the SS NG+ runs I was planning (any% and all bosses) and I'm taking a long break from Soma's Boss Rush.

The main problem with these is that I've done multiple non-recorded runs on all of them, so it's just like I don't want to sit through luck manipulating everything endlessly (for the NG+ any% I'm trying to get Black Panther on the first drop).

Yeah, I'd say Yoko's faster on Death, but there were a few reasons I just didn't want to deal with her in that fight. Basically, if he does his scythe attacks at you, Yoko doesn't really have an answer for it other than running away, whereas Alucard can attack, so whichever AI you get out of Death it's way less annoying with Alucard. That and just didn't want to waste time switching characters a bunch, but yeah, I'll get over it and use Yoko.

I'll try to do some more runs tonight, so hopefully his 4:43 is legit.

As for my runs, the NG was rejected since the TAS route was possible, the NG+ run passed but hasn't been posted in the verification board yet, I was going to do a NG run following the TAS route, but I've still yet to get the drops I need. I'll probably switch to an NG non-major skips run instead of that though, since it's been what I've sort of wanted to do. I sort of stopped working on the SS NG+ runs I was planning (any% and all bosses) and I'm taking a long break from Soma's Boss Rush.

The main problem with these is that I've done multiple non-recorded runs on all of them, so it's just like I don't want to sit through luck manipulating everything endlessly (for the NG+ any% I'm trying to get Black Panther on the first drop).

Persona

2009-11-19 08:45:07 pm

Castlevania?

I tried registering at cvcv.net to ask them your question but it seems the mod isn't verifying my account. As for my old account there, I have no idea what the info is for it because it was shared with a friend.

My DoS saves all got corrupted for some odd reason so I basically have nothing to try out with but I remember my record was in the 5 min range. I'm pretty sure sub 5 is possible because the way I speedrun things is that if I'm not recording, I never try. I just play to test out the tactics and then do it all in one go when recording. Further proof it's possible is because you got 5:14 but from what I remember from your vid (I only watched it once), I think you got hit quite a number of times from Aguni which was why you waited for the orb? Because I think your MP was at least half. I think there's alot of ways to lower the time with Yoko's lightning spell but it's really about luck because sometimes it just doesn't go in the direction you want it to. Maybe that's what got that guy the 4:43 time.

Not sure if this is helpful but from what I remember, each character had their own MP filling speed. Yoko being fastest and Alucard being slowest.

But yes, I'm really interested in this simply because I think DoS Julius Mode is the best alt Mode ever for CV IMO. Cheesy

I'll find some time to quickly unlock Julius Mode.

I tried registering at cvcv.net to ask them your question but it seems the mod isn't verifying my account. As for my old account there, I have no idea what the info is for it because it was shared with a friend.

My DoS saves all got corrupted for some odd reason so I basically have nothing to try out with but I remember my record was in the 5 min range. I'm pretty sure sub 5 is possible because the way I speedrun things is that if I'm not recording, I never try. I just play to test out the tactics and then do it all in one go when recording. Further proof it's possible is because you got 5:14 but from what I remember from your vid (I only watched it once), I think you got hit quite a number of times from Aguni which was why you waited for the orb? Because I think your MP was at least half. I think there's alot of ways to lower the time with Yoko's lightning spell but it's really about luck because sometimes it just doesn't go in the direction you want it to. Maybe that's what got that guy the 4:43 time.

Not sure if this is helpful but from what I remember, each character had their own MP filling speed. Yoko being fastest and Alucard being slowest.

But yes, I'm really interested in this simply because I think DoS Julius Mode is the best alt Mode ever for CV IMO. :D

I'll find some time to quickly unlock Julius Mode.