C4L2014 Feedback Thread

2014-07-15 07:20:25 am

Obviously I wasn't able to attend the event, so a lot of the specifics I'm unable to comment on accurately.

On the topic of chat. While IRC is only a small sample compared to both the size and scope of twitch chat for an event, it was rather easy to keep things there going rather smoothly with a very small mod force (most runs had 1-2 mods awake, with some scrub named Everhate being added as a fill-in. I blame him for any and all issues.)

There are certainly enough folks, particularly in the rpg community, who are able and willing to volunteer to help keep twitch chat from getting out of control. There will always be jerks, but dealing with them on an individual basis is likely to be more effective than effectively banning everyone from the twitch chat.

While the possibility to actually have sub status not lock out everyone would assist to some extent, the rather unfortunate truth is that a lot of viewers will leave quickly if they cannot be engaged in the stream in one fashion or another. Twitch chat is the most accessible way to accomplish this, and can be done by people who don't have to concern themselves with the myriad of issues which must be handled on-site. As such, it may be worth considering setting up a more sizable group of people who can be trusted to moderate the twitch chat in such a way that it will add to the atmosphere to the event, rather than detract from it.

As twitch increases in popularity, and as these events increase alongside it, this is a pressing issue for a number of people and communities. No solution will be perfect, but it is my opinion that taking steps to include as many as possible, while still keeping things appropriate and civil should be the goal.

Obviously I wasn't able to attend the event, so a lot of the specifics I'm unable to comment on accurately.

On the topic of chat. While IRC is only a small sample compared to both the size and scope of twitch chat for an event, it was rather easy to keep things there going rather smoothly with a very small mod force (most runs had 1-2 mods awake, with some scrub named Everhate being added as a fill-in. I blame him for any and all issues.)

There are certainly enough folks, particularly in the rpg community, who are able and willing to volunteer to help keep twitch chat from getting out of control. There will always be jerks, but dealing with them on an individual basis is likely to be more effective than effectively banning everyone from the twitch chat.

While the possibility to actually have sub status not lock out everyone would assist to some extent, the rather unfortunate truth is that a lot of viewers will leave quickly if they cannot be engaged in the stream in one fashion or another. Twitch chat is the most accessible way to accomplish this, and can be done by people who don't have to concern themselves with the myriad of issues which must be handled on-site. As such, it may be worth considering setting up a more sizable group of people who can be trusted to moderate the twitch chat in such a way that it will add to the atmosphere to the event, rather than detract from it.

As twitch increases in popularity, and as these events increase alongside it, this is a pressing issue for a number of people and communities. No solution will be perfect, but it is my opinion that taking steps to include as many as possible, while still keeping things appropriate and civil should be the goal.

Brossentia

2014-07-15 08:50:27 am

No pain, no gain

Poxnor, going on an unfriending spree on Facebook isn't exactly the best way to deal with this problem. I already saw your post saying "Why should I give a flying fuck about that thread?" long before we started this discussion. We want to work this out publicly, and the only way I'm seeing any small chance of this happening is if you post here. As you've stated about this thread, I equally don't give a flying fuck (apologies to Essentia) if you need to rip into me here. I just ask that you do it here.

Honestly, the two best reasons for you to continue your role, Poxnor, is that you have a good relationship with the charity and that the marathon more easily caters to the European and Canadian communities. Those facts shouldn't be ignored, but I'm not seeing any other reason for this to continue as it did before. Please, Poxnor. If you have a reason, give it to us. Don't keep giving us more reasons against this. Did we have more average viewers than C4L2013? Did the marathon show any sort of growth?

And Lag.com, I'm sorry if this has upset you, but this is more about saving the event than anything else. People want it to continue, but it can't continue as it did last year.

Poxnor, going on an unfriending spree on Facebook isn't exactly the best way to deal with this problem. I already saw your post saying "Why should I give a flying fuck about that thread?" long before we started this discussion. We want to work this out publicly, and the only way I'm seeing any small chance of this happening is if you post here. As you've stated about this thread, I equally don't give a flying fuck (apologies to Essentia) if you need to rip into me here. I just ask that you do it here.

Honestly, the two best reasons for you to continue your role, Poxnor, is that you have a good relationship with the charity and that the marathon more easily caters to the European and Canadian communities. Those facts shouldn't be ignored, but I'm not seeing any other reason for this to continue as it did before. Please, Poxnor. If you have a reason, give it to us. Don't keep giving us more reasons against this. Did we have more average viewers than C4L2013? Did the marathon show any sort of growth?

And Lag.com, I'm sorry if this has upset you, but this is more about saving the event than anything else. People want it to continue, but it can't continue as it did last year.

Alko

2014-07-15 10:54:07 am

Caution: This user contains Kana ^_^

Quote from Brossentia:

Poxnor, going on an unfriending spree on Facebook isn't exactly the best way to deal with this problem. I already saw your post saying "Why should I give a flying fuck about that thread?" long before we started this discussion. We want to work this out publicly, and the only way I'm seeing any small chance of this happening is if you post here. As you've stated about this thread, I equally don't give a flying fuck (apologies to Essentia) if you need to rip into me here. I just ask that you do it here.

Honestly, the two best reasons for you to continue your role, Poxnor, is that you have a good relationship with the charity and that the marathon more easily caters to the European and Canadian communities. Those facts shouldn't be ignored, but I'm not seeing any other reason for this to continue as it did before. Please, Poxnor. If you have a reason, give it to us. Don't keep giving us more reasons against this. Did we have more average viewers than C4L2013? Did the marathon show any sort of growth?

This post of yours is making me sad. I was hoping to go to C4L14, I still hope I can go to C4L15 and I'm a generally very optimistic person … reading this, however, makes me anxious that there might not be a C4L15.
Poxnor, please don't destroy the good faith I have in people in general and in you in particular =(

[quote="Brossentia"]Poxnor, going on an unfriending spree on Facebook isn't exactly the best way to deal with this problem. I already saw your post saying "Why should I give a flying fuck about that thread?" long before we started this discussion. We want to work this out publicly, and the only way I'm seeing any small chance of this happening is if you post here. As you've stated about this thread, I equally don't give a flying fuck (apologies to Essentia) if you need to rip into me here. I just ask that you do it here.

Honestly, the two best reasons for you to continue your role, Poxnor, is that you have a good relationship with the charity and that the marathon more easily caters to the European and Canadian communities. Those facts shouldn't be ignored, but I'm not seeing any other reason for this to continue as it did before. Please, Poxnor. If you have a reason, give it to us. Don't keep giving us more reasons against this. Did we have more average viewers than C4L2013? Did the marathon show any sort of growth?[/quote]
This post of yours is making me sad. I was hoping to go to C4L14, I still hope I can go to C4L15 and I'm a generally very optimistic person … reading this, however, makes me anxious that there might not be a C4L15.
Poxnor, please don't destroy the good faith I have in people in general and in you in particular =(

AlecK47

2014-07-15 11:11:19 am

Quote from Alko:

Poxnor, please don't destroy the good faith I have in people in general and in you in particular =(

I'll echo this. With my low income I took a substantial risk going to an event that was already very expensive for me despite observing and being concerned by the aforementioned organizational issues. Why? Because ultimately I trusted you, Poxnor - and I still want to. Every personal interaction I've had with you has convinced me that you're a good person who wants to do the right thing. Whatever went wrong this year, the RPG speedrunning community is better for the things you've done for it. There are quite a few of us who want you to stay part of it because we know you, and know what you're like in person. Some of us may disagree with you on some things, but we're still your friends - whether you want to believe it right now or not, and whether we agree with your vision for C4L as most recently expressed, we are your friends.

Ginzuishou

2014-07-15 11:32:25 am

Quote from AlecK47:

I'll echo this. With my low income I took a substantial risk going to an event that was already very expensive for me despite observing and being concerned by the aforementioned organizational issues. Why? Because ultimately I trusted you, Poxnor - and I still want to. Every personal interaction I've had with you has convinced me that you're a good person who wants to do the right thing. Whatever went wrong this year, the RPG speedrunning community is better for the things you've done for it. There are quite a few of us who want you to stay part of it because we know you, and know what you're like in person. Some of us may disagree with you on some things, but we're still your friends - whether you want to believe it right now or not, and whether we agree with your vision for C4L as most recently expressed, we are your friends.

This is probably the most profound thing said in this thread so far. And AlecK is right, completely. This community is built on friendships. Friends disagree all the time, that's part of life. The only thing that bothers me in all this, in all fairness, is the issues of organization, delegation, preparedness, communication have never really been addressed. While I have offered up my help for next year, I really wish there will be a next year. Maybe it's a matter of opinion, but all I've seen is people commenting and expressing their concerns (even if some have been completely uncalled for in their delivery), and for some unknown reason, they keep being ignored and are met with open hostility, if what Brossentia says is true.

Yet again, I have nothing against anyone, do not want to see anyone hurt, or see friendships in the community be lost over something so trivial in the great picture of life as this has become. At the end of the day, SDA is a community. Communities are here to help people. The community obviously wants to help, so why is this happening the way it is?

[quote="AlecK47"]
I'll echo this.  With my low income I took a substantial risk going to an event that was already very expensive for me despite observing and being concerned by the aforementioned organizational issues.  Why?  Because ultimately I trusted you, Poxnor - and I still want to.  Every personal interaction I've had with you has convinced me that you're a good person who wants to do the right thing.  Whatever went wrong this year, the RPG speedrunning community is better for the things you've done for it.  There are quite a few of us who want you to stay part of it because we know you, and know what you're like in person.  Some of us may disagree with you on some things, but we're still your friends - whether you want to believe it right now or not, and whether we agree with your vision for C4L as most recently expressed, we are your friends.[/quote]

This is probably the most profound thing said in this thread so far. And AlecK is right, completely. This community is built on friendships. Friends disagree all the time, that's part of life. The only thing that bothers me in all this, in all fairness, is the issues of organization, delegation, preparedness, communication have never really been addressed. While I have offered up my help for next year, I really wish there will be a next year. Maybe it's a matter of opinion, but all I've seen is people commenting and expressing their concerns (even if some have been completely uncalled for in their delivery), and for some unknown reason, they keep being ignored and are met with open hostility, if what Brossentia says is true.

Yet again, I have nothing against anyone, do not want to see anyone hurt, or see friendships in the community be lost over something so trivial in the great picture of life as this has become.  At the end of the day, SDA is a community. Communities are here to help people. The community obviously wants to help, so why is this happening the way it is?

Essentia

2014-07-15 11:45:46 am

Everything's better with Magitek

If no one cared about the marathon and wanted it to succeed, then there would be no feedback at all. With more communication and delegation, letting more people participate in pre-marathon prep, this marathon can truly be about the RPG community, which is what you yourself have said you want, Poxnor.

An honest admission: Back in 2011 when I offered up my house for the first SGDQ, I became overwhelmed by how much needed to be done to put on the marathon. It got to the point where I was so embarrassed that I wasn't getting things done that I started actively avoiding any SGDQ threads, and whenever I did get on the forums, I wouldn't sign in because I didn't want people to know I was there. I'm not proud of this, and I know now that I'm not really a good leader. If I hadn't started giving tasks to other people (game schedule, tech, etc.) then SGDQ would never have happened. Even though I pretty much started SGDQ, I'm not in charge of it, and things are much better for it.

djtifaheart

2014-07-15 03:14:13 pm

Gotta Go Fast!

Sometimes people say and do things that they don't mean when they're angry. I'd like to believe this is the case. I feel that underneath that anger, there's a guy who's hurting on the inside. There's a good guy in there too. Poxnor, I worked with you for this year's C4L and while you seemed scattered with life stuff, it was also a positive experience to me. I hope you'll come around back to this thread. The silence on here is what's killing it for me.

The concern I do have is the field you're in. From what I've read and heard, the law can consume a great deal of a persons time. The solution is spreading out the duties in this case (I agree with ButtersBB's post on that note) to more people. Remember when you asked for help with prize + donation threads, I jumped on that. A lot of people are willing to help out in other areas as well. You got offers for it already.

I echo Aleck as well - we're still your friends.

Chuckolator

Edit history:

Chuckolator: 2014-07-15 07:10:59 pm

Chuckolator: 2014-07-15 07:04:11 pm

2014-07-15 07:03:08 pm

I don't really have much to add, but I'll echo Everhate's post. The RPG speedrunning community as a whole is far greater than just the people who would actually be interested and able to go to the events. There is definitely no shortage of trustworthy people not at the event who would be able to help police twitchchat to quash any unsavory comments. As others have said, twitch chat does cause casual viewers to stick, especially with RPG runs where the game action might not be enough to instantly hook them. Though the lack of a french restream means we can't really determine with certainty its effect on donations, the low difference between the viewers at the beginning and the peak should be proof that there's at least something that has been lost. To say that it should be razed again because there's nobody to police it is simply false, and temporary sub mode is always an option in the case that it does get too out of hand for a bit.

Being someone who kind of jumped around and saw a lot of speedrunning communities before "settling" on the RPG community as what I really enjoyed, I can say with confidence that it is the most mature community out there, and if there were ever a community that would throw twitchchat into a fire it would be this one. The fact that most of the people who commented on the twitchchat situation still feel that's going too far and that the moderation (again, going back to Everhate's post, the amount of people who would volunteer is far greater than you might think) would be well handled should be a sign that it's really not going to be the unpoliced wasteland that you might believe.

I know this isn't as pressing an issue as lots of the other things mentioned in this thread, but this is one that actually did affect me and I did feel like I should make a post on it. C4L is a great thing, and I hope it continues next year. Adding twitchchat to that is a bonus.

I don't really have much to add, but I'll echo Everhate's post. The RPG speedrunning community as a whole is far greater than just the people who would actually be interested and able to go to the events. There is definitely no shortage of trustworthy people not at the event who would be able to help police twitchchat to quash any unsavory comments. As others have said, twitch chat does cause casual viewers to stick, especially with RPG runs where the game action might not be enough to instantly hook them. Though the lack of a french restream means we can't really determine with certainty its effect on donations, the low difference between the viewers at the beginning and the peak should be proof that there's at least something that has been lost. To say that it should be razed again because there's nobody to police it is simply false, and temporary sub mode is always an option in the case that it does get too out of hand for a bit.

Being someone who kind of jumped around and saw a lot of speedrunning communities before "settling" on the RPG community as what I really enjoyed, I can say with confidence that it is the most mature community out there, and if there were ever a community that would throw twitchchat into a fire it would be this one. The fact that most of the people who commented on the twitchchat situation still feel that's going too far and that the moderation (again, going back to Everhate's post, the amount of people who would volunteer is far greater than you might think) would be well handled should be a sign that it's really not going to be the unpoliced wasteland that you might believe.

I know this isn't as pressing an issue as lots of the other things mentioned in this thread, but this is one that actually did affect me and I did feel like I should make a post on it. C4L is a great thing, and I hope it continues next year. Adding twitchchat to that is a bonus.

ButtersBB

2014-07-15 07:11:32 pm

What is with all the doom and gloom in here?

The RPG community is bigger than one event. It is not showing any signs of slowing down. The simple fact remains that the RPG community doesn't get much of a shot during GDQ's, so they are hungry for their own event to strut their stuff.

Worst case scenario: Crystals 4 Life is done. OK... So does that change the RPG community's desire for their own event? Hell no!

Make no mistake: If this turns out to be done, I fully expect people to step up to the plate and organize a new event called... uh... Polycarbonates 4 Choice or something.

Cut the melodramatics and stand proud, people!

Bottom line: Poxnor, stop pussyfooting around this thread and spouting off angry rants on Facebook. Seriously, just look at the melancholy, "I'm sorry I have to say this..." tone of the people in this thread. The juxtaposition of your reaction to the actual contents of this thread is absurd. All you have to do is either A) Eat crow, accept that serious delegation is necessary, and endeavor to save the event, or B) Just say "event is done, GG" and let the RPG community move on to the next one.

Either way, the community will be fine.

What is with all the doom and gloom in here?

The RPG community is bigger than one event. It is not showing any signs of slowing down. The simple fact remains that the RPG community doesn't get much of a shot during GDQ's, so they are hungry for their own event to strut their stuff.

Worst case scenario: Crystals 4 Life is done. OK... So does that change the RPG community's desire for their own event? Hell no!

Make no mistake: If this turns out to be done, I fully expect people to step up to the plate and organize a new event called... uh... Polycarbonates 4 Choice or something.

Cut the melodramatics and stand proud, people!

Bottom line: Poxnor, stop pussyfooting around this thread and spouting off angry rants on Facebook. Seriously, just look at the melancholy, "I'm sorry I have to say this..." tone of the people in this thread. The juxtaposition of your reaction to the actual contents of this thread is absurd. All you have to do is either A) Eat crow, accept that serious delegation is necessary, and endeavor to save the event, or B) Just say "event is done, GG" and let the RPG community move on to the next one.

Either way, the community will be fine.

Brossentia

Edit history:

Brossentia: 2014-07-15 07:49:07 pm

2014-07-15 07:36:49 pm

No pain, no gain

Chuckolator and others, thank you for giving feedback. I don't want you to feel that you're being ignored; these are things that need to be addressed, but they'll come after the major issue at hand. Chat is something I'd like to tackle myself at some point, and I think there are enough reasonable solutions to make it work.

I think you have it right ButtersBB. I'm glad that you had that earlier post, as well. I know I've been a little bit of the imposing doom-and-gloom around here, but I think we're at that point:

Do we go on as C4L with some major changes in leadership, or do we create a new marathon?

I don't see people wanting to quit having RPG marathons. From everything they've said here, they want this. They want something for the community. The main thing at this point, though, is that Poxnor, as far as we know, owns the rights to the marathon. I'm not sure; Canadian law isn't my specialty at all. We would need his blessing to continue the event under others' leadership, and based on his actions over the last couple of days, I don't see that happening. (BTW, I'd love to be proved wrong here; Poxnor is a great guy, and I know the marathons can still benefit from his help)

I get the feeling, though, that plenty of people here would be happy to start a separate marathon. Yeah, the name and location would change, but it would still be a community event for charity. We're not going to cancel all fun--we'll fix what's wrong and get it rolling. At this point, I know Essentia has offered her house, and she's hosted before; location issues would easily be taken care of with that. Others that have attended have helped a great deal in this and other marathons; some have helped with marathon schedules while others have coordinated the technology needed.

We've got a strong ass team, and trust me. A marathon's happening next year. It's up to Poxnor if it's C4L.

Chuckolator and others, thank you for giving feedback. I don't want you to feel that you're being ignored; these are things that need to be addressed, but they'll come after the major issue at hand. Chat is something I'd like to tackle myself at some point, and I think there are enough reasonable solutions to make it work.

I think you have it right ButtersBB. I'm glad that you had that earlier post, as well. I know I've been a little bit of the imposing doom-and-gloom around here, but I think we're at that point:

Do we go on as C4L with some major changes in leadership, or do we create a new marathon?

I don't see people wanting to quit having RPG marathons. From everything they've said here, they want this. They want something for the community. The main thing at this point, though, is that Poxnor, as far as we know, owns the rights to the marathon. I'm not sure; Canadian law isn't my specialty at all. We would need his blessing to continue the event under others' leadership, and based on his actions over the last couple of days, I don't see that happening. (BTW, I'd love to be proved wrong here; Poxnor is a great guy, and I know the marathons can still benefit from his help)

I get the feeling, though, that plenty of people here would be happy to start a separate marathon. Yeah, the name and location would change, but it would still be a community event for charity. We're not going to cancel all fun--we'll fix what's wrong and get it rolling. At this point, I know Essentia has offered her house, and she's hosted before; location issues would easily be taken care of with that. Others that have attended have helped a great deal in this and other marathons; some have helped with marathon schedules while others have coordinated the technology needed.

We've got a strong ass team, and trust me. A marathon's happening next year. It's up to Poxnor if it's C4L.

Poxnor

2014-07-15 08:54:20 pm

Moo! Flap! Hug!

Dear SDA community,

We thought that we responded to your concerns and gave a plan to deal with as many of these as possible. However, it has been made clear that the SDA community has no faith in our ability to fix any of the issues that arose this year, even though we were willing to delegate responsibilities such as logistics (i.e. holding the marathon at Kari and Denton's house). For this reason, we will be stepping down.

The final issue we'll address is the name of any future marathon. For the following reasons, we do not want anyone else to use the name "Crystals For Life":
1. Yes, we're hurt that we're being pushed out of the leadership of this event, so we might as well just admit it. But even more than this:
2. It has always been important for us to maintain our vision of Crystals For Life being as inclusive an event as possible. We feel it's important for as many runners as possible (including relative unknowns) to run a game. However, we get the distinct feeling from this thread that growth is more important to the SDA community than inclusiveness. Therefore, we wouldn't expect future organizers to carry on our philosophy.
3. Finally, the community is pushing for new leadership, a new location, and a new vision... why not make a fresh start with a new name?

This is our last post. We won't be reading this thread anymore, so there's no purpose in leaving it unlocked. We would suggest that someone start a new thread for a new marathon.

We wish you all the best with a future RPG marathon. We hope the community finds what it's looking for.

Sincerely,
Ryan and Stefanie

Dear SDA community,

We thought that we responded to your concerns and gave a plan to deal with as many of these as possible. However, it has been made clear that the SDA community has no faith in our ability to fix any of the issues that arose this year, even though we were willing to delegate responsibilities such as logistics (i.e. holding the marathon at Kari and Denton's house). For this reason, we will be stepping down.

The final issue we'll address is the name of any future marathon. For the following reasons, we do not want anyone else to use the name "Crystals For Life":
1. Yes, we're hurt that we're being pushed out of the leadership of this event, so we might as well just admit it. But even more than this:
2. It has always been important for us to maintain our vision of Crystals For Life being as inclusive an event as possible. We feel it's important for as many runners as possible (including relative unknowns) to run a game. However, we get the distinct feeling from this thread that growth is more important to the SDA community than inclusiveness. Therefore, we wouldn't expect future organizers to carry on our philosophy.
3. Finally, the community is pushing for new leadership, a new location, and a new vision... why not make a fresh start with a new name?

This is our last post. We won't be reading this thread anymore, so there's no purpose in leaving it unlocked. We would suggest that someone start a new thread for a new marathon.

We wish you all the best with a future RPG marathon.  We hope the community finds what it's looking for.

Sincerely,
Ryan and Stefanie

jape

2014-07-15 09:23:06 pm

this is a lost cause to write this post since you won't see it, but as someone that's not really particularly invested in this marathon/community that goodbye post is a fucking crock. i've read this thread since the beginning and although some people were harsh, criticism is something that absolutely has to happen. both for Growth and Inclusiveness. people in this thread, and i'm sure in private, tried really hard to be helpful and constructive, and your earlier posts were extremely defensive, passing the buck to others, flat out disregarding things people said. sry for all the superlatives, but not really.

this whole thing about growth is so poopey anyways dude. you rented out a huge fricken hotel for the sole purpose of growth lol. and the only location talked about for [next marathon name here] has been essentias house -- kind of a downgrade, as nice as i'm sure her house is. even in your final moments you shift the blame to others for not seeing your grand marathon vision when not only is nobody doing that, but its actually exactly the same shit you pulled all throughout this feedback thread.

hopefully this is a learning experience, not only for you, but for others, as taking your ball and running home when there's people willing, begging to help, is not a proper response. rats off and good luck to the next marathon runner

this is a lost cause to write this post since you won't see it, but as someone that's not really particularly invested in this marathon/community that goodbye post is a fucking crock. i've read this thread since the beginning and although some people were harsh, criticism is something that absolutely has to happen. both for Growth and Inclusiveness. people in this thread, and i'm sure in private, tried really hard to be helpful and constructive, and your earlier posts were extremely defensive, passing the buck to others, flat out disregarding things people said. sry for all the superlatives, but not really.

this whole thing about growth is so poopey anyways dude. you rented out a huge fricken hotel for the sole purpose of growth lol. and the only location talked about for [next marathon name here] has been essentias house -- kind of a downgrade, as nice as i'm sure her house is. even in your final moments you shift the blame to others for not seeing your grand marathon vision when not only is nobody doing that, but its actually exactly the same shit you pulled all throughout this feedback thread.

hopefully this is a learning experience, not only for you, but for others, as taking  your ball and running home when there's people willing, begging to help, is not a proper response. rats off and good luck to the next marathon runner

Brossentia

2014-07-15 09:24:43 pm

No pain, no gain

I appreciate the clarification. Crystals 4 Life will be missed, but we'll move on.

Well, I think we should probably take a break from this for a little while. We know, however, that we'll be moving forward with a different RPG marathon. There's probably not a lot of need to stir up any of the stuff that's happened in here, especially the negative things. I know jape posted before I did, but it's best to keep things civil.

I'm not a mod, but I don't want to see this thread just crumble into crap. Perhaps it would be fine to talk about some of the things that went well and that you hope to keep seeing in the future. I mean, I love RPGs, and it'd be great to see something great next year.

JackintheBox333

2014-07-15 09:25:09 pm

Professional Shaq Fu Speedrunner

All I can say is well...

As you wind down the final things from Crystals for Life 2014 that are still left outstanding (which would be donation prize distribution), I still have the donation prize ready to ship to the winner if and when I ever get a shipping address for it (assuming the winner responds).

AlecK47

Edit history:

AlecK47: 2014-07-16 06:01:09 pm

2014-07-15 09:36:32 pm

Well, I spent the last month or so really hoping this wouldn't happen, but so be it. As Butters mentioned, the RPG community is stronger than all of this mess (thanks in part to Poxnor, whether he likes it or not) and we will most certainly carry on. I agree that we should take some time to think and let this sink in, which is natural; if we want to make whatever the next RPG event is be the best it can be, we should be as objective as possible, and time helps with that. Whatever it ends up being I'll be a part of it, and I'll do my best to make sure it's the event we all deserve - and I know I'm not alone here.

And on the off chance that Poxnor ever reads this: just let bygones be bygones. This turned into a complete mess, but I don't hate you, and I don't know of anyone else who does. Sure you may look bad as I write this, but shit happens. I for one won't close the door on you; you'll have to do that yourself.

puwexil

2014-07-16 08:50:42 am

Professional Second Banana

Going to leave this open so there isn't a total vacuum until a new thread is started about the future of RPG marathons (which will be later this month, after we've all had some time to breath); but if the tone gets overly negative I'll re-lock.

Alko

2014-07-16 04:28:05 pm

Caution: This user contains Kana ^_^

I hope sadness doesn't count as negative …
AlecK, your previous post already took most of the words I couldn't express out of my mouth (or rather: fingers?), and again you wrote exactly what I wanted to say:

Quote from AlecK47:

Poxnor […] I don't hate you, and I don't know of anyone else who does.

While I have faith in the RPG community to carry on, I sincerely hope that this mess doesn't create a permanent rift between some members and others. Maybe it is a good thing that the name won't be used anymore, because that allows me to keep my very happy memories from 2013 special. Thank you, Poxnor and Steph, for organising C4L, for the tremendous amount of work you put in and for the unforgetable experience I had! I hope we'll meet again at whatever the new thing might be.

And while I grab my cuddling cushion, I'm thinking of how sad it is that we can no longer save Cid by saying 'Crystals for Life! =C

garik16

2014-07-17 06:58:14 pm

To try and return this thread to its original purpose, I'd like to talk about how we can make an RPG marathon work better. Such a marathon has a lot bigger problem dealing with dropped players, especially at last minute, because you're dealing with HOURS of lost time on the schedule, and you have a lot less people than a GDQ who can come in and fill up such a timeslot. I like the idea of being as inclusive to as many people as possible, but obviously this results in drops being more effective.

I wonder if you could structure the marathon in such a way that you have like two choices of start times: at like 2 PM and say 9PM. You put someone who you trust will be there all week in the 2PM slot and if someone else drops, shift the schedule around to cut out the hours in the marathon, using the guy in 2PM slot to fill in whatever gap there now is. Obviously losing hours of possible charity-earning sucks, but this might give more flexibility for drops without asking people to run extra games to fill time.

To try and return this thread to its original purpose, I'd like to talk about how we can make an RPG marathon work better.  Such a marathon has a lot bigger problem dealing with dropped players, especially at last minute, because you're dealing with HOURS of lost time on the schedule, and you have a lot less people than a GDQ who can come in and fill up such a timeslot.  I like the idea of being as inclusive to as many people as possible, but obviously this results in drops being more effective.

I wonder if you could structure the marathon in such a way that you have like two choices of start times: at like 2 PM and say 9PM.  You put someone who you trust will be there all week in the 2PM slot and if someone else drops, shift the schedule around to cut out the hours in the marathon, using the guy in 2PM slot to fill in whatever gap there now is.  Obviously losing hours of possible charity-earning sucks, but this might give more flexibility for drops without asking people to run extra games to fill time.

jetfirexx

2014-07-17 07:19:13 pm

Gotta go fast!

Quote from garik16:

I wonder if you could structure the marathon in such a way that you have like two choices of start times: at like 2 PM and say 9PM. You put someone who you trust will be there all week in the 2PM slot and if someone else drops, shift the schedule around to cut out the hours in the marathon, using the guy in 2PM slot to fill in whatever gap there now is. Obviously losing hours of possible charity-earning sucks, but this might give more flexibility for drops without asking people to run extra games to fill time.

I think the issue with this is that if you lost say four 5 hour games, that's effectively an entire day lost and then you are not streaming for as long as you've advertised which looks bad for the charity and will annoy a lot of people. I think a better solution for an RPG marathon would be to wait until you get submissions to finalise the length of the marathon so that you have enough back ups to counter any drops you get. However, this causes problems with people knowing how much time to get off work etc.

[quote="garik16"]I wonder if you could structure the marathon in such a way that you have like two choices of start times: at like 2 PM and say 9PM.  You put someone who you trust will be there all week in the 2PM slot and if someone else drops, shift the schedule around to cut out the hours in the marathon, using the guy in 2PM slot to fill in whatever gap there now is.  Obviously losing hours of possible charity-earning sucks, but this might give more flexibility for drops without asking people to run extra games to fill time.[/quote]

I think the issue with this is that if you lost say four 5 hour games, that's effectively an entire day lost and then you are not streaming for as long as you've advertised which looks bad for the charity and will annoy a lot of people. I think a better solution for an RPG marathon would be to wait until you get submissions to finalise the length of the marathon so that you have enough back ups to counter any drops you get. However, this causes problems with people knowing how much time to get off work etc.

Driscollad

2014-07-17 07:24:45 pm

If a day of Bonus stream is scheduled on-site, the issue of last minute drops can be countered

mike89

2014-07-17 07:27:04 pm

SEGA Junkie

Only if the bonus stream is full of content that could conceivably be substituted into the main marathon. At which point you may as well just make the marathon an extra day longer...

Driscollad

2014-07-17 07:28:46 pm

There's no perfect solution, but I'd rather have too much content than not enough

kariohki

2014-07-18 07:38:35 am

Some sort of pinch hitter situation, it sounds like? But then that ties back into the issue of one person having to practice three 5 hour games, and something suffers, and maybe one won't even be played? Possibly think of non-speedrunning game filler, like a glitch demonstration, or interviews, or a roundtable discussion to fill the time?

Brossentia

Edit history:

Brossentia: 2014-07-18 10:58:40 am

2014-07-18 10:55:59 am

No pain, no gain

Well, I just learned how to kill Kefka with BabaBreath, so a glitch demonstration isn't exactly unreasonable. With that said, there are definitely some ways to fill the time. I think backup games would be nice--I mean, there are some people who consistently run multiple RPGs but only expect to have one or two at a marathon. It might be reasonable to ask them to have one of those games prepared in case something falls through.

JackintheBox333

2014-07-18 11:19:47 am

Professional Shaq Fu Speedrunner

SGDQ also had on screen runner interviews, and something like that could be used to kill some time, along with ad time for the charity. Or perhaps also having a back up really short RPG as a hole filler. Essentia ran the FF4 interquel at C4L 2013, and while I'm not well versed in RPG's to think of really short games like that off the top of my head, I would assume that somebody else perhaps had a short game like this they could offer in order to fill time in an emergency in addition to their one game.