Bioshock Infinite - Modern Day Speedrunning!?

2013-04-01 11:18:53 pm

#speedrunslive to race games!!!

Found out a few interesting/useless facts about the fight at soldiers field while waiting for the gondola (some of this is common sense knowledge, but w/e)

-The gondola will come after a fixed amt of time even if you don't kill any enemies (I have no idea if killing enemies makes it come faster)
-If you die after the gondola comes (or I guess before), and manage to get to the lock without coming near any enemies, elizabeth can pick it (Probably wouldn't save time, as the Patriot on the gondola would probably need to be dead first. When I tested this the only enemy still on the map was a rocketman on a blue ship, so idk how easy this would be).
-Midway through the gondola/ride cutscene I killed myself using an rpg (not all gondola rides let you fire your weapon), and the game spent some time loading (I think I confused it). I respawned at the area you respawn when dying during the fight beforehand. I went down and the gondola was back where it started really far away, and the lever to lower it would not activate (obviously). taking the elevator and coming back didn't fix it, and the Hall of Heroes loading point is closed up so I couldn't try that. I had to reload the checkpoint which put me before the fight.

As I said, I doubt any of this is particularly useful, but it offers some interesting insight into how part of the game works.

Found out a few interesting/useless facts about the fight at soldiers field while waiting for the gondola (some of this is common sense knowledge, but w/e)

-The gondola will come after a fixed amt of time even if you don't kill any enemies (I have no idea if killing enemies makes it come faster)
-If you die after the gondola comes (or I guess before), and manage to get to the lock without coming near any enemies, elizabeth can pick it (Probably wouldn't save time, as the Patriot on the gondola would probably need to be dead first. When I tested this the only enemy still on the map was a rocketman on a blue ship, so idk how easy this would be).
-Midway through the gondola/ride cutscene I killed myself using an rpg (not all gondola rides let you fire your weapon), and the game spent some time loading (I think I confused it). I respawned at the area you respawn when dying during the fight beforehand. I went down and the gondola was back where it started really far away, and the lever to lower it would not activate (obviously). taking the elevator and coming back didn't fix it, and the Hall of Heroes loading point is closed up so I couldn't try that. I had to reload the checkpoint which put me before the fight.

As I said, I doubt any of this is particularly useful, but it offers some interesting insight into how part of the game works.

Yeti

2013-04-02 12:12:13 am

aka FFAtv on twitch

Nice. In that fight, it's probably worth ignoring the enemies that are far away to run into the house in the middle and grab gear/salts while the gondola is in transit. You might have time to do that anyways though.

Does the in-combat status reset when you fall and respawn or only when you legitimately die?

amzblk

2013-04-02 04:24:07 am

Quote from thundrio:

Quote from amzblk:

EDIT: It will be a matter of navigating invisible walls. For PC I have just found a trainer that allows you to save/load position which will make finding the right invisible walls so much easier without having to restart everytime you fall down.

do you happen to have a link to said trainer? As you said it would make testing things a lot easier

Executable of the +14 Trainer for Bioshock Infinite v1.0
I recommend muting the trainer in the windows volume mixer since it has annoying sounds but other than that NumPad .(Del) to save the position and NumPad + to load the saved position.

Errorjack

2013-04-02 07:04:27 am

Metal Gear Rising Speedrunner

Quote from Yeti:

Nice. In that fight, it's probably worth ignoring the enemies that are far away to run into the house in the middle and grab gear/salts while the gondola is in transit. You might have time to do that anyways though.

Does the in-combat status reset when you fall and respawn or only when you legitimately die?

Only when you die, does the combat status reset.

xvermillion

2013-04-02 01:47:21 pm

Self-Imposed Challenge Fanatic

Keep it up guys! This is fantastic info.

Yeti

Edit history:

Yeti: 2013-04-02 06:59:59 pm

2013-04-02 02:16:21 pm

aka FFAtv on twitch

I'm gonna stream my first attempt at a run right now! http://www.twitch.tv/ffatv

I only regret that I didn't have a chance to do one sooner.

Edit: Got 3:21:xx. Not bad for a first run, and I definitely learned a lot. The main thing I'll have to figure out is when to grab weapons/infusions/vigors.

paranoiaxssr

Edit history:

paranoiaxssr: 2013-04-03 01:39:05 am

paranoiaxssr: 2013-04-03 12:05:38 am

paranoiaxssr: 2013-04-02 08:25:53 pm

2013-04-02 05:10:50 pm

Been trying to optimize some of these fights, especially the downtown emporia one. I found a way to make the handyman kill himself during that fight. It requires some timing and positioning but it does save a lot of time. I'm pretty sure while the handyman is still alive, more waves will keep coming if all the lesser guys die. I don't think this trick works 100% of the time, but it worked for me 3 out of 4 tries.

I'll start adding some other fights in this post as the days go on.

Final fight of the game:

Ignore this video for now actually, turns out you save something like 50 seconds if you board the second zeppelin and destroy the third with the songbird. The same rules about killing the last guy before the zeppelin is off the screen still applies. I'll make a new video tomorrow.

Good time club:

More videos coming soonish.

Been trying to optimize some of these fights, especially the downtown emporia one. I found a way to make the handyman kill himself during that fight. It requires some timing and positioning but it does save a lot of time. I'm pretty sure while the handyman is still alive, more waves will keep coming if all the lesser guys die. I don't think this trick works 100% of the time, but it worked for me 3 out of 4 tries.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6jQxas2osJM&feature=youtu.be

I'll start adding some other fights in this post as the days go on.

Final fight of the game:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1qYP-3sEy5o&feature=youtu.be
Ignore this video for now actually, turns out you save something like 50 seconds if you board the second zeppelin and destroy the third with the songbird. The same rules about killing the last guy before the zeppelin is off the screen still applies. I'll make a new video tomorrow.

Good time club:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DZM_oR_cMCk&feature=youtu.be

More videos coming soonish.

thundrio

2013-04-02 05:16:20 pm

#speedrunslive to race games!!!

Do you know which fights can be manipulated to be shorter by dying? I know the battles in the hall of heroes stay the same even if you die, and it would be nice to know which ones work.

paranoiaxssr

2013-04-02 05:30:50 pm

Quote from thundrio:

Do you know which fights can be manipulated to be shorter by dying? I know the battles in the hall of heroes stay the same even if you die, and it would be nice to know which ones work.

Haven't found another one besides the previously known one. Every other fight has some scripting that just doesn't care if you die, or expects you to die.

Yeti

Edit history:

Yeti: 2013-04-02 05:57:37 pm

2013-04-02 05:55:23 pm

aka FFAtv on twitch

That emporia fight route is awesome. Makes infusions well worth it too I think, since otherwise you spend a bunch of time killing the rocket vox. Looks like you need six bucking broncos and a devil's kiss or two worth of salt to do it optimally. Some of the airships have salt refills on them though I think...I'll investigate at some point.

What gear do you all pick up? The only stuff I can think of that isn't out of the way is the battleship bay arcade guy, the soldier's field apartment, the one you get as you enter Finkton and the one that the handyman in the factory spawns. As for infusions, most of them seem like a bit of a pain to get.

thundrio

2013-04-03 12:10:35 am

#speedrunslive to race games!!!

Ok, did a bunch of experimenting with the trainer today, here are some of the highlights of what Ive found (nothing that can actually be used directly in a speedrun).

-It should be possible to get through the first entryway in soldiers field before the metallic gate shuts. I did this by using the superjump cheat to delay activating the trigger, but there's got to be a way to get through normally (maybe with the gear that increases speed?)
-If you go into the area to rescue Elizabeth by jumping over the wall (at Finkton Docks, when she is being held by two guys in a gold elevator), the elevator will not raise. I could jump right into the room and get right in front of Elizabeth the guys. Obviously I couldn't kill either of them (interestingly though the were solid and bled when I shot them). Then after killing everybody, the game froze/hung when I tried to open the door to Elizabeth. I imagine this is because she opens a tear as you are seeing her and the game got confused when she wasn't in the right position to grab the Skyrail (This fact is completely irrelevant to speedrunning, but I thought it was interesting).
-In the finkdon area, I tried to skip part of the quest by jumping over the tunnel that leads to the location where the smiths tools are hidden (can't think of it atm). I was able to get to the next area, but the elevator door was shut for whatever reason and I couldn't proceed (I was at the point where I had already been to see Chen Lin in the jail, but I had not gone back into the smithy yet). I was however able to skip the Finkdon area by jumping over the factory door. I have no idea if this is possible normally, and even if it is, it might be a dead end, since there were no Vox Populi/quest markers in the next location where you are supposed to bring down the zeppelin (I didn't wait around to see if the zeppelin appeared though, since I just jumped over the gate in question).
-I don't think it is possible to skip killing daisy and go straight to the first lady, I got close but was not able to make it inside (I imagine it might make the game throw a Hissy fit too, because of Elizabeth's position).
-I jumped over the Luteces at the piano, but I couldn't proceed past the locked door past that point, since Elizabeth was unable to get to the locked door (I pressed f to call for a hairpin lock, but she stood me up -_-). If you die, Elizabeth will respawn you after the Luteces, and you can proceed like normal.
-It is impossible to get to the bank vault early using the OOB shown in the Downtown Euporia Fight Skip. The area directly inside the locked door doesn't actually appear until Elizabeth start's lockpicking the door, and it is impossible to get back in bounds so that you can call the elevator
-it seems like getting into Comstock House Early could be one of the more feasible skips in the game right now. Unlike trying to get into other areas (such as the Luteces house where one of the tears is) which are completely enclosed and impossible to get into via OOB (I miss developers who made one sided walls), the area above the Comstock gate isn't solid and can be passed through (and there is a lot of invisible/solid ceilings in the building so if you can get close you should be able to get in).

I will work on some of these more promising skips later this week, hopefully we can break this game into pieces.

Also I took the liberty of creating savegames at various points throughout the game. They are not really spread evenly (I just made a savegame when I felt it was at a useful spot), but by using these (may need to use the load chapter feature sometimes to get closest), I think it should be possible to get to any point in the game within 20-30 minutes of play (Which is a step up from having to play 2 hours to get to Euporia to test something). The savegames are all on easy, and let me know if any of them don't work.

To use these savegames go to this directory (or whatever yours is) C:\Program Files (x86)\Steam\userdata\40385402\8870\remote , delete the savedata folder, and move the savedata folder from the save you want into the remote folder (the profile file doesn't matter, although I think that deleting it helps grind achievements if you want, because I accidentally deleted it and now voxophones I have picked up before are counting for my achievement). You need to make sure you have disabled Steam Cloud Sync (although I guess just being in offline mode would work too).

Here is the zip with the saves:

https://docs.google.com/file/d/0B-06AmtePSqOUkpTWkVIdE43N2s/edit?usp=sharing

Happy glitching!

Ok, did a bunch of experimenting with the trainer today, here are some of the highlights of what Ive found (nothing that can actually be used directly in a speedrun).

-It should be possible to get through the first entryway in soldiers field before the metallic gate shuts. I did this by using the superjump cheat to delay activating the trigger, but there's got to be a way to get through normally (maybe with the gear that increases speed?)
-If you go into the area to rescue Elizabeth by jumping over the wall (at Finkton Docks, when she is being held by two guys in a gold elevator), the elevator will not raise. I could jump right into the room and get right in front of Elizabeth the guys. Obviously I couldn't kill either of them (interestingly though the were solid and bled when I shot them). Then after killing everybody, the game froze/hung when I tried to open the door to Elizabeth. I imagine this is because she opens a tear as you are seeing her and the game got confused when she wasn't in the right position to grab the Skyrail (This fact is completely irrelevant to speedrunning, but I thought it was interesting).
-In the finkdon area, I tried to skip part of the quest by jumping over the tunnel that leads to the location where the smiths tools are hidden (can't think of it atm). I was able to get to the next area, but the elevator door was shut for whatever reason and I couldn't proceed (I was at the point where I had already been to see Chen Lin in the jail, but I had not gone back into the smithy yet). I was however able to skip the Finkdon area by jumping over the factory door. I have no idea if this is possible normally, and even if it is, it might be a dead end, since there were no Vox Populi/quest markers in the next location where you are supposed to bring down the zeppelin (I didn't wait around to see if the zeppelin appeared though, since I just jumped over the gate in question).
-I don't think it is possible to skip killing daisy and go straight to the first lady, I got close but was not able to make it inside (I imagine it might make the game throw a Hissy fit too, because of Elizabeth's position).
-I jumped over the Luteces at the piano, but I couldn't proceed past the locked door past that point, since Elizabeth was unable to get to the locked door (I pressed f to call for a hairpin lock, but she stood me up -_-). If you die, Elizabeth will respawn you after the Luteces, and you can proceed like normal.
-It is impossible to get to the bank vault early using the OOB shown in the Downtown Euporia Fight Skip. The area directly inside the locked door doesn't actually appear until Elizabeth start's lockpicking the door, and it is impossible to get back in bounds so that you can call the elevator
-it seems like getting into Comstock House Early could be one of the more feasible skips in the game right now. Unlike trying to get into other areas (such as the Luteces house where one of the tears is) which are completely enclosed and impossible to get into via OOB (I miss developers who made one sided walls), the area above the Comstock gate isn't solid and can be passed through (and there is a lot of invisible/solid ceilings in the building so if you can get close you should be able to get in).

I will work on some of these more promising skips later this week, hopefully we can break this game into pieces.

Also I took the liberty of creating savegames at various points throughout the game. They are not really spread evenly (I just made a savegame when I felt it was at a useful spot), but by using these (may need to use the load chapter feature sometimes to get closest), I think it should be possible to get to any point in the game within 20-30 minutes of play (Which is a step up from having to play 2 hours to get to Euporia to test something). The savegames are all on easy, and let me know if any of them don't work.

To use these savegames go to this directory (or whatever yours is) C:\Program Files (x86)\Steam\userdata\40385402\8870\remote , delete the savedata folder, and move the savedata folder from the save you want into the remote folder (the profile file doesn't matter, although I think that deleting it helps grind achievements if you want, because I accidentally deleted it and now voxophones I have picked up before are counting for my achievement). You need to make sure you have disabled Steam Cloud Sync (although I guess just being in offline mode would work too).

Here is the zip with the saves:

https://docs.google.com/file/d/0B-06AmtePSqOUkpTWkVIdE43N2s/edit?usp=sharing

Happy glitching!

Yeti

Edit history:

Yeti: 2013-04-03 12:19:57 am

Yeti: 2013-04-03 12:17:52 am

2013-04-03 12:16:23 am

aka FFAtv on twitch

Nice, sounds like a productive day Cheesy

Seems as though the development team was pretty careful not to let you skip things even if you can physically get to the places you should be, which is too bad. Good to hear that Comstock House is still feasible though, that would be huge. I'm going to mess around in Emporia a bit tomorrow, I think. At least once I learn the current routes for the game better :p

On another note, how should we define 100%? All voxophones/vigors/infusions? I probably won't want to try a 100% run for a while, but I might try one in the far future. I was thinking about the raffle skip and I think it's still useful for 100%, since you could use it to skip the possession pickup and coin tossing cutscene.

thundrio

2013-04-03 12:27:02 am

#speedrunslive to race games!!!

I think vigors and infusinos should for sure be required for 100%, but I'm not sure about voxophones. Sure they are collectibles that vanish from the map, but they don't add anything to your skillset and they are similar to the movie players (forgetting name) in what they add to the game (story). To compare it to another game, 100% in Zelda OOT does not include treasure chests/compasses even though they are collectible items that vanish from the map (zelda 100% definitions are weird though so maybe I shouldn't have brought it up haha).

Honestly though I am more interested in doing a low% run someday.

TheVoid

2013-04-03 12:35:50 am

There's a Gear (Forgot its name and location to get) that knocks back a target when he's melee'd, also very useful for knocking guys over railings and off ships. Thought I should mention it in case all those Salt Infusions are time wasting to get Tongue

Yeti

2013-04-03 01:10:30 am

aka FFAtv on twitch

Alright I couldn't wait til tomorrow, lol. I was just messing around with the Comstock gate, and it seems like it will spawn you past the gate if you fall right below the gate. If you start oob on the invisible walls on the right-hand side of the building and walk off them so that you fall under the gate you can do this, I think. Now it's just a question of getting onto those walls without superjump, etc :p I think that may be possible from the crypt gate jump. Will investigate fully tomorrow, but for now I need sleep.

usernameguy

2013-04-03 01:27:26 am

Great work, Yeti and thundrio.

Ah, man, the "map doesn't load until Liz picks the lock" thing is actually simple development genius. They hid the map load behind her picking the lock and maybe talking a little bit. Makes everything easy to do in the code, I suspect. I wouldn't be surprised if they pull the same trick every time there's a hairpin lock (or maybe every door lock, even). If we're going to break those, we have to convince Liz to appear in the right spot at the right time, too.

One idea about manipulating Liz - is it possible in some spots to go OOB, approach a door, then die, somehow? Just to respawn Liz in the same area you're now in. Or does respawn always push you back out away from locked-off areas?

Yeti

Edit history:

Yeti: 2013-04-03 12:35:48 pm

2013-04-03 12:35:13 pm

aka FFAtv on twitch

I've found that Liz will sometimes magically teleport to your location. For example, when I cheat and get past the Comstock gate she sometimes follows me there even though the gate isn't open yet. I have no idea what determines this though, since sometimes she refuses to go anywhere. In my run last night she trolled me super hard in the Hall of Heroes by refusing to follow me into the room with the first motorized patriot for like five minutes...

One way to bypass all her shenaniganry is to use a door that lets you leave the area or an elevator button. If you can get directly to those you don't have to wait for her, which is really nice.

Errorjack

2013-04-03 01:49:50 pm

Metal Gear Rising Speedrunner

I watched Parastream's video and found out that there were 2 tricks he didn't document for the forums(he might have, but I don't think in video form). These two might be found by him so credits are up in the air. These are the tricks in question:

Welcome Center Trick:

Finkton Docks Trick:

Yeti

Edit history:

Yeti: 2013-04-03 02:06:41 pm

Yeti: 2013-04-03 02:03:58 pm

2013-04-03 01:58:14 pm

aka FFAtv on twitch

Nice videos Errorjack, I hadn't seen the welcome center trick done from that position. It's probably more consistent from there than where I've been doing it, which is from the bottom of that railing.

I found some kind of interesting but also kind of discouraging OOB stuff at the Comstock gate:

This seems to indicate that getting past the gate via some sort of falling -> respawn in room will be difficult. This is all assuming there's even a way to get OOB near the gate, which I haven't found a way to do yet either. I wanna believe though ;_;

Oh, and something I should have added in the video: Even if you go and fall/respawn elsewhere on the map and come back, you'll always spawn past the gate if you fall from the place I did the second time. Also, turns out I was wrong about where you have to stand. It can be anywhere past the gate.

Errorjack

2013-04-03 02:09:34 pm

Metal Gear Rising Speedrunner

Yeti, nice. Sucks that you must be behind the gate, because there is currently nothing found yet that has even gotten close to the gate. Still, interesting to see. Too bad I can't do these kind of experiments on Xbox. Sad

evomagic

2013-04-03 02:46:17 pm

hey guys,

i got some few tests coz i haven't so much time before this week-end, but i found that you can pass above the gate after the pyroman between the tears. Just need to get the speed for that or the ejection...

I noticed also that at welcome center, the platforms between barriers where some balloons pass seems to be present when u just arrived. Then, it vanishes when u come closer. Is it just a a graphic issue or not, that's the question i'm wondering...

Finally, i will try to create a mod where u can apply a texture to invisible walls, but it seems to be a real amount of work...

I got some questions though, why not try to do a 1999mode speedrun (as always)? (well i know we still need to learn) (why not try to create a tool to modify health and ammo in order to use multisegments runs?)

bangerra

2013-04-03 03:26:35 pm

Quote:

(why not try to create a tool to modify health and ammo in order to use multisegments runs?)

What do you mean by this? Altering the game in any fashion is not acceptable by SDA standards.

paranoiaxssr

2013-04-03 05:43:51 pm

New time: 2:44:50

Those new fight strats I've been working on save sooooooo much time.

http://www.twitch.tv/parastream/b/386193298

Yeti

2013-04-03 05:58:45 pm

aka FFAtv on twitch

Wow, nice! I'll have to watch that some time tonight.

thundrio

Edit history:

thundrio: 2013-04-03 07:49:58 pm

thundrio: 2013-04-03 06:46:09 pm

thundrio: 2013-04-03 06:42:42 pm

thundrio: 2013-04-03 06:10:59 pm

2013-04-03 06:03:58 pm

#speedrunslive to race games!!!

@para One easy way to save a very small portion of time ( .5 seconds at most) is in the casino at the beginning. Instead of grabbing the gear right away, go run up to the turnstile where the girl calls elizabeth annabelle. You can trigger that scene, go run down the stairs to get the gear, and then get back before the turnstiles activate. It doesn't save much time, but theres no risk so I see no reason not to do it as it gives you something to do other than sit around during that scene (it might even be worth it to go get the other gear earlier in the building at that time, but idk).

EDIT: Some more Ideas I have from watching your run (not done, will watch more later).
-In the first battle of the hall of heroes, is it faster to lay the devil's kiss traps directly on the door, instead of right in front of it? It probably doesn't matter, but eh.
-You waste some time before the boxer rebellion fight going into the employees only room and getting the equipment. It might be faster to grab it later, after you enter the first lady memorial and trigger the long cutscene before elizabeth can pick the lock.
-when you pull the gun on the guy in the casino, and have to wait for the gates to open, the right gate opens a few seconds before the left one, so it should be faster to go through that gate
-is murder of crows really useful enough to pick it up? it feels like its just a stunner, which you could do with shock jockey (Which your forced to get)
-During the multistage fight at the goodtime club, you can get behind the stage before the curtain falls after the last fight. this would save a second or two.

@para One easy way to save a very small portion of time ( .5 seconds at most) is in the casino at the beginning. Instead of grabbing the gear right away, go run up to the turnstile where the girl calls elizabeth annabelle. You can trigger that scene, go run down the stairs to get the gear, and then get back before the turnstiles activate. It doesn't save much time, but theres no risk so I see no reason not to do it as it gives you something to do other than sit around during that scene (it might even be worth it to go get the other gear earlier in the building at that time, but idk).

EDIT: Some more Ideas I have from watching your run (not done, will watch more later).
-In the first battle of the hall of heroes, is it faster to lay the devil's kiss traps directly on the door, instead of right in front of it? It probably doesn't matter, but eh.
-You waste some time before the boxer rebellion fight going into the employees only room and getting the equipment. It might be faster to grab it later, after you enter the first lady memorial and trigger the long cutscene before elizabeth can pick the lock.
-when you pull the gun on the guy in the casino, and have to wait for the gates to open, the right gate opens a few seconds before the left one, so it should be faster to go through that gate
-is murder of crows really useful enough to pick it up? it feels like its just a stunner, which you could do with shock jockey (Which your forced to get)
-During the multistage fight at the goodtime club, you can get behind the stage before the curtain falls after the last fight. this would save a second or two.