BioShock 2

2010-02-10 03:30:05 am

Stalker!

i havent tried the game so far but if it got same use of triggers like bioshock that can skip large parts of the maps

2010-02-10 12:42:26 pm

If anyone finds a way to skip dialog that would be very useful. Also in the first 5 levels so far I have not found any way to skip triggers. Starting to play through again and see what works and what doesnt per level. Also considering doing

the 'drill only with plasmids' - plasmid, for (i think) unlimited dashing power cause I think that plasmid gives you unlimited gas. That would speed up alot of running to say the least. I still have to remember where I found it.. lol

2010-02-10 02:09:23 pm

destroy them with lazers

I haven't checked yet but being as you have telekensis by that point the first thing I would do is see if we can melt the ice wall on Ryan Amusements to see if we can skip a portion of the level.

2010-02-10 03:52:42 pm

So after playing through again, this time writing some notes and a general 'must do' list per level, this time I took the drill plasma and found that it does NOT give you unlimited gas for dashing, not even a discount or whatever. So... probably not worth going that route. Dashing still is fairly nice for speed but having to buy gas 3 times a level gets old fast (and really broke). There are alot of fights you are required to do which some are in stages (wave 1 needs to be killed before wave 2 spawns and wave to needs to die before door opens sorta thing).

I can post of my rough walk through if anyone is interested and we can go from there.

2010-02-10 04:00:21 pm

posted up here:

http://speeddemosarchive.com/kb/BioShock2

2010-02-10 07:01:28 pm

Familiarise yourself with the tricks in Bioshock 1 and see if they can be applied here.

In particular:

* If the dialogue system is similar to Bioshock 1 (i.e. radio messages and audio diaries) see if you can skip dialogue by playing other messages from the message menu again.
* Figure out how to cheat, then fly and ghost around and determine for every trigger whether it's possible to go around or over it. Also look to get on top of invisible walls, and check whether any tall objects aren't actually solid higher up.

Also try using saves to break triggers.

I can't offer more advice because I haven't played this game and probably won't.

2010-02-10 07:49:41 pm

Thanks for the input.

So far from what ive seen besides playing new dialog (diairies) there isnt a way to play them otherwise. Of course I could ahve missed it but I didnt see a way to replay old messages.

The trying to break triggers with saves did come to mind and I tried it once and it seemed to sorta break it.. Ill have to test it more.

2010-02-10 08:40:38 pm

destroy them with lazers

You can replay old messages the same way you could in the first game by going into your menu.

2010-02-11 02:47:23 pm

Ive played around with that a bit and havnt been able to find a way to interupt one. All it seems to do is que it up on the end of the current list of ones to play.

2010-02-13 01:41:26 pm

Stalker!

Quote from ExplodingCabbage:

* If the dialogue system is similar to Bioshock 1 (i.e. radio messages and audio diaries) see if you can skip dialogue by playing other messages from the message menu again.

doesnt work with story messages

and the saving glitch also doesnt work as well as in Bioshock 1

2010-02-15 02:58:57 pm

Stalker!

i found a little shortcut which works on easy and normal,
when you got the key at paupers drop just jump over the railing instead of walking back throught all the rooms

Attachment:

paupers drop.mp4

2010-02-15 03:10:05 pm

ah ya ive done that a few times.. if you can manage your health and die on the fall you skip the trigger to start that turret (though idk if you gain time from it.. the respawner is right on the other side of that door

Hotashi

2010-02-15 11:50:56 pm

Hey, I'm trying to speed run just like you. What areas did you try using reloading a save to break triggers? As soon as I get through my third run tomorrow, I'll share as much as I learn. Thanks.

2010-02-16 02:19:08 am

To put the save/loading to break triggers thing in context, I only ever found one use of it in Bioshock and that was to avoid being paralysed by a trigger that, uh, paralyses you. Normally, the trigger would instantly both paralyse you and make it impossible to save until you were unparalysed. However, if you jumped before activating the trigger, it wouldn't take effect until you hit the ground. You could then save and load while in the air, and the paralysis effect wouldn't happen at all.

This may or may not help you find uses of the trick in Bioshock 2.

However, most of the tricks in Bioshock 1 simply revolve around getting over or around triggers, or travelling along invisible walls or through seemingly solid objects. The only sane way to look for such tricks is using the 'fly' cheat. Does this cheat still exist in Bioshock 2? Have you tried it yet? Are triggers and solids in tall rooms all still shorter than the rooms that contain them, letting you go over the top of them? I haven't played the game, but the first stage in looking for skips should, IMO, be determining the exact boundaries of every trigger you pass through on the main route, and seeing if you can get around or over it. This absolutely includes the triggers that activate Vita Chambers, especially on levels with backtracking.

Using the fly cheat to look for places to get outside the level or just generally alternative routes to places may be worthwhile too.

To put the save/loading to break triggers thing in context, I only ever found one use of it in Bioshock and that was to avoid being paralysed by a trigger that, uh, paralyses you. Normally, the trigger would instantly both paralyse you and make it impossible to save until you were unparalysed. However, if you jumped before activating the trigger, it wouldn't take effect until you hit the ground. You could then save and load while in the air, and the paralysis effect wouldn't happen at all.

This may or may not help you find uses of the trick in Bioshock 2.

However, most of the tricks in Bioshock 1 simply revolve around getting over or around triggers, or travelling along invisible walls or through seemingly solid objects. The only sane way to look for such tricks is using the 'fly' cheat. Does this cheat still exist in Bioshock 2? Have you tried it yet? Are triggers and solids in tall rooms all still shorter than the rooms that contain them, letting you go over the top of them? I haven't played the game, but the first stage in looking for skips should, IMO, be determining the exact boundaries of every trigger you pass through on the main route, and seeing if you can get around or over it. [i]This absolutely includes the triggers that activate Vita Chambers, especially on levels with backtracking.[/i]

Using the fly cheat to look for places to get outside the level or just generally alternative routes to places may be worthwhile too.

Hotashi

2010-02-16 01:51:43 pm

Is there even a Fly cheat in Bioshock 2? Sorry for not being aware.

2010-02-16 03:22:37 pm

I have no idea, but the simple way to find out is to open the user.ini file, find the section where key binds are defined, and bind something to 'fly'.

2010-02-16 08:00:41 pm

Yes there is. The same way you could with BS1. Same commands as well. Look in your documents and settings\bioshock2\ (or something like that) for the user.ini file. Thats also where the save files are.

Cauldrath

Edit history:

Cauldrath: 2010-02-24 05:38:13 pm

2010-02-24 12:37:06 pm

The baddle haz jusd begunn!

Well, I tried a few things. First of all, if it is possible to melt ice without Incinerate, they made it a lot harder. The upgraded rivet gun, which can be upgraded to do fire damage, does not melt ice. Explosives don't either. I tried setting some suitcases on fire with a pool of oil and explosives, but by the time I could turn around after grabbing them out of the fire, they had already gone out.

At least on the PS3, the menu for getting to the audio diaries is so excruciatingly slow that, even if they did help, it would likely not be worth it. I think there might even be a bug where audio diaries don't get added to your log if they are interrupted by a radio message when you first pick them up, but I didn't do much testing.

I didn't try any death warping, but the game does seem to have a LOT more vita-chambers, which would likely nullify their uses.

So... they probably took all the fun out of speedrunning. Since I'm just borrowing a roommate's rental to play it, good luck to any who try.

EDIT: I tested some more and apparently throwing flaming objects on most ice blocks will melt them, but it won't work on the ice blocking the train or the ice next to the Gatherer's Garden where you get Incinerate that is blocking the other Gatherer's Garden. So those are probably hard-coded to only react to Incinerate.

Well, I tried a few things.  First of all, if it is possible to melt ice without Incinerate, they made it a lot harder.  The upgraded rivet gun, which can be upgraded to do fire damage, does not melt ice.  Explosives don't either.  I tried setting some suitcases on fire with a pool of oil and explosives, but by the time I could turn around after grabbing them out of the fire, they had already gone out.

At least on the PS3, the menu for getting to the audio diaries is so excruciatingly slow that, even if they did help, it would likely not be worth it.  I think there might even be a bug where audio diaries don't get added to your log if they are interrupted by a radio message when you first pick them up, but I didn't do much testing.

I didn't try any death warping, but the game does seem to have a LOT more vita-chambers, which would likely nullify their uses.

So... they probably took all the fun out of speedrunning.  Since I'm just borrowing a roommate's rental to play it, good luck to any who try.

EDIT: I tested some more and apparently throwing flaming objects on most ice blocks will melt them, but it won't work on the ice blocking the train or the ice next to the Gatherer's Garden where you get Incinerate that is blocking the other Gatherer's Garden.  So those are probably hard-coded to only react to Incinerate.

2010-02-27 07:18:52 pm

destroy them with lazers

Cauldrath I tried all the same things a while ago and came up with the same thing nothings melting that ice. Did just find this though.

Could be useful for finding some sequence breaks.

2010-02-28 02:25:11 am

Quote from X:

Cauldrath I tried all the same things a while ago and came up with the same thing nothings melting that ice. Did just find this though.

Could be useful for finding some sequence breaks.

Hilarious. The devs were so careful to make telekinesis function in a way that you couldn't use it to fly in BS1, and it sounds like they've been tightening up BS2 to remove most of the tricks and glitches that DID find their way into BS1... but then they introduce this! Cheesy

Edit history:

X: 2010-02-28 07:10:32 am

2010-02-28 05:39:56 am

destroy them with lazers

This could be a useful glitch for skipping some good portions of the game play:

Paupers Drop:

You could jump straight on the top of the pawn shop (even through the hole if its possible) to get the camera.

You could use it to reach the third floor of the hotel. Fight Grace and then death warp to the vita chamber.

Siren Alley:

You could jump the the third floor of the pearl hotel. No idea if you would need to go back to the top of the stairs to trigger the brother splicer. Might be a good way to deal some early damage to him. Possible kill him straight away?

Dionysus Park:

Possible jump to the top of the blocked off stairs in the first main room. Would save about 10 seconds maybe a bit less.

2010-09-24 08:07:24 pm

sorta necroing.. but the past week or so i have been considering doing a speedrun of this again (for now just casual but if it starts to interest ppl might go for official)..

a couple general questions that i havnt so far been able to find answers for...

with bioshock 1 (or even 2) for the planning did anyone decompile the maps and look at them by any chance? since it is a unreal3 engine game.. i sorta doubt it but hey ya never know Tongue

so far i havnt been able to find any custom content map wise for bioshock2 multiplay which for being released on the PC seems odd to me give ppl generally like to create that sorta thing. in ref to that maybe someone edited a unreal3 decompiler to work with the bioshock games (heres to hoping)

anyway.. just thought id ask. also been looking for glitches and whatnot on the utube and really havnt found anything useful. i personally havnt been able to test that above jumping glitch (and cant find a vid for it anymore anyway) but were X posted would seem like possible skip points

sorta necroing.. but the past week or so i have been considering doing a speedrun of this again (for now just casual but if it starts to interest ppl might go for official)..

a couple general questions that i havnt so far been able to find answers for...

with bioshock 1 (or even 2) for the planning did anyone decompile the maps and look at them by any chance? since it is a unreal3 engine game.. i sorta doubt it but hey ya never know :P

so far i havnt been able to find any custom content map wise for bioshock2 multiplay which for being released on the PC seems odd to me give ppl generally like to create that sorta thing.  in ref to that maybe someone edited a unreal3 decompiler to work with the bioshock games (heres to hoping)

anyway.. just thought id ask. also been looking for glitches and whatnot on the utube and really havnt found anything useful. i personally havnt been able to test that above jumping glitch (and cant find a vid for it anymore anyway) but were X posted would seem like possible skip points

2010-09-25 04:52:32 am

Nobody ever tried decompiling maps for Bioshock 1. I wouldn't know how to, tbh, but if anyone teaches me what I need to know, I'll probably have a look and see if it reveals any useful information.

Quote:

also been looking for glitches and whatnot on the utube and really havnt found anything useful

I wouldn't expect to. The kind of glitches that will be helpful to you when speedrunning will either be small, subtle things that wouldn't be interesting enough to the general YouTube audience for anyone to make a video out of them (like pressure jumping or fast firing in Bioshock 1), or big sequence breaks that require thought and effort to discover, and are only likely to be uncovered by a speedrunner. You will have to find tricks and glitches yourself.

Quote:

i personally havnt been able to test that above jumping glitch (and cant find a vid for it anymore anyway)

It's been ages since that post, but if I'm remembering right, the glitch was that you can use objects to fly by holding them beneath with telekinesis and repeatedly jumping.

By the way, I've said this already, but it bears repeating: by far the most useful thing you can do if you want to find useful glitches is bind 'fly', 'ghost' and 'walk' to keys, then go methodically through the game checking for each trigger or wall in your path whether it's possible to fly over it or slip around it. Assuming the map-makers worked in the same way they did in Bioshock, you can expect to be able to fly over the top of triggers and invisible walls in tall rooms. And if you can bypass something with the help of the Fly cheat, you can almost always find a way to bypass it without.

Nobody ever tried decompiling maps for Bioshock 1. I wouldn't know how to, tbh, but if anyone teaches me what I need to know, I'll probably have a look and see if it reveals any useful information.

[quote]also been looking for glitches and whatnot on the utube and really havnt found anything useful[/quote]

I wouldn't expect to. The kind of glitches that will be helpful to you when speedrunning will either be small, subtle things that wouldn't be interesting enough to the general YouTube audience for anyone to make a video out of them (like pressure jumping or fast firing in Bioshock 1), or big sequence breaks that require thought and effort to discover, and are only likely to be uncovered by a speedrunner. You will have to find tricks and glitches yourself.

[quote]i personally havnt been able to test that above jumping glitch (and cant find a vid for it anymore anyway)[/quote]

It's been ages since that post, but if I'm remembering right, the glitch was that you can use objects to fly by holding them beneath with telekinesis and repeatedly jumping.

By the way, I've said this already, but it bears repeating: by far the most useful thing you can do if you want to find useful glitches is bind 'fly', 'ghost' and 'walk' to keys, then go methodically through the game checking for each trigger or wall in your path whether it's possible to fly over it or slip around it. Assuming the map-makers worked in the same way they did in Bioshock, you can expect to be able to fly over the top of triggers and invisible walls in tall rooms. And if you can bypass something with the help of the Fly cheat, you can almost always find a way to bypass it without.