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thethrillness.blogspot.com
Quote from RoboSparkle:
2) I'm certain that the game does not allow you to crack the code without taking out the guys.  I'll give it a go though.


An area I saw you do this was the disruptor moments after the area I previously mentioned. For the second one you used smoke pellet (IIRC) so why not just use smoke pellet for the first one to? I think the enemies are so close together it would work.
Magical. Flying. Bathtub
Quote from AnubisGI:
Quote from RoboSparkle:
2) I'm certain that the game does not allow you to crack the code without taking out the guys.  I'll give it a go though.


An area I saw you do this was the disruptor moments after the area I previously mentioned. For the second one you used smoke pellet (IIRC) so why not just use smoke pellet for the first one to? I think the enemies are so close together it would work.


Yeah I know, I'm just thinking of Strange's code which I DID try to break while some of his goons were out cold and only one was conscious (and totally disarmed and on the floor, cape stunned and frozen) and it still told me to "secure area first". Like I said, I have a huge list of possible sequnce breaks to attempt this week.  Anymore you want to add to my experiments, I'm all ears!
thethrillness.blogspot.com
Without actually playing the game I cannot help much, sorry. I can test stuff in May though.

I would say to check every situation with goons and locks just to be safe. The game maybe puts importance on some areas over others. For example what you just described. Since there is a lengthy cutscene the makers probably thought it sensible to knock all goons out as they maybe could have attacked Batman in the cutscene etc where as if it is to just pass a door, it is not an issue.
Edit history:
RoboSparkle: 2012-04-17 02:26:13 pm
Magical. Flying. Bathtub
Yeah, I know what you mean, hopefully I'll have checked enough that when I do have a run to submit it will be a significant time-saving discovery that leads to the run being beaten, like a new glitch or something, rather than something really simple like not going where the game assumes you will go...

Also, I've decided I really like the word 'goon' and that I wish I had more opportunities to use that word in everyday life Smiley
thethrillness.blogspot.com
Lol, my exact thinking. Smiley

Good luck!
you have to beat the guys in front of the museum, both times.  my internet was out for a couple days so this is a pleasant surprise to come back to.

watching it atm.

you made some impressive improvements to my route so far, im up to the grapnel boost.  however after watching the time you have to take tossing batarangs at balloons and cameras, i am not convinced getting the riddler trophy later is better.  on the other hand, i really like the subtle changes you make on releasing a grapnel prior to climbing up and just gliding the rest of the way, that is smart.  also your route to the steel mill after the grapnel upgrade is definately better.  i saw a simillar route on darthknight21's speed run.

skipped the harly trophy robot thingy by the guys who weld the door shut after you rescue doctor stacy baker on purpose?

does the unussual order for getting the raft in the museum actually save time?
Magical. Flying. Bathtub
Cheers Jeremy,

I'm working on my experience up to the steel mill without cameras and balloons and any runs where I don't have enough exp getting for 2 upgrades by that point will be reset.  I've also got a new route for the church which is much riskier but saves at least 5 seconds and tbh it only takes 11 minutes to get there so not like I lose a massive amount of time there.

Funnily enough it wasn't until I posted my run on youtube that I saw darthknight's run, and it's well worth a watch (he does it in 2:20ish on Normal mode with Catwoman) - didn't even know there was anybody else running it!  Saw a couple of timesavers he's used compared to my run that seem to work well on Normal mode but not sure they'll go down well on Hard, but still worth a shot.  There's a lot of similarities in the runs though except he doesn't abuse the multi-batarang takedown nearly as much since the thugs will go down to two crits.  He also doesn't go for the Riddler's trophy, presumably because he doesn't need the exp on Normal, plus Catwoman gives a nice amount of exp.

I tried to skip the Harley bot to save the time zapping it as I didn't think it was worth the experience but the problem is I won't know if I need the exp until I get halfway through the museum, it's not like the balloons where i'll know if I have enough exp 17 minutes into the run and don't lose much for a reset, so I might get them even though I may not need them.  If it was a segmented run then I'd skip them because it does cost time, no matter how little.

The unusual raft order is quicker because I don't have to wait for the raft to hit the water and become bat-claw-able if I batarang it from the balcony, although using the batclaw twice (like I did in that run) will be slower unless I can pull it in close enough that after the shark attacks I can still diveroll-jump to the raft.  That may be a Segmented-only strategy though...

Has anybody else who's seen my and/or darthknight's run got any suggestions for improvements (apart from not dying) or sequence breaks we missed?
started watching it again after after taking a break.  i am not sure if this is something you are unaware of or just a mistake but you use grapnel lines at the area around 1 hour exactly.  you do realize that while you are looking elsewhere while sliding on a line and holding the left trigger you get a time slowdown to facilitate a more precise new line launch?  it is one of those cost a tenth of a second things to insure you dont spend an entire second or more correcting it.

i think my route to scan the mechanical gaurdians (assembling the memory footage to find the hidden door in wonder city) is a little faster.  not much, but mine has no doubling back, and ends right above the hidden door.

i have not checked, at least i dont remember checking, so are you certain that you NEED to wait until the sand pool changes into the magic pit thingy before diving into on the ra's gliding segments?

your definately take a little longer in the room at 1:20:20 than i do.  you dont need to toss any batarangs or do any tricks in there.  or at least i never need to.

you're freeze route is good, and you make the same mistake it do... neither of us uses a simple old stealth take down on him, the easiest and fastest thing to do...

minor pathing error on the steel mill snipers?  not sure if there is a significant speed difference between our two routes to take out the snipers.

i really like the line launcher usage in the steel mill.

your invisible predator path after catching the baseball bat from dr. baker in the steel mill is GREAT.  damn.

ok, finished it.  i am jealous.  and i will try to beat your time...  even though i have no idea how.
Magical. Flying. Bathtub
Hey cheers for the comments.  Been going through my route as throughly as possible to find more time to save and tighten up the execution.

I've taken your notes into consideration and I really think that's helped:

Yeah the line launcher thing annoyed me because I want to get quick changes out of it but the only place you can really use the quick change effectively is the sewer, going to have to use the slow change in the steel mill though.

Your mechanical guardians route is definitely slower.  Mostly due to the fact that you fight three sets of ninjas when darthknight and I fight two.  I timed all three of our runs and even account for the mistakes we all made, Darthknights route is the fastest so I've used that with a little tweak to improve it by about 15 seconds.

Ra's Sand Pools:  There's a trigger that allows you to go into the sand pools that activates at some point just after Ra's finishes talking and I'm not certain when it is.  Had a practice run on the first pit where it looks like I clip into the sand because the texture hadn't actually started disappearing even though the pit was 'activated'.  Not sure what the timing is on that tbh but it's tight.  Going to try and incorporate it into the final run if I can, although I could wait three seconds and be safer...

Yeah getting out of the subway using your route kept getting me killed so I just added the Sonic Shock.  I've got a new route there now which is both safer and faster by about 5 seconds.

That's not my actual freeze route.  It went wrong a bit.  FYI it's supposed to be Glide -> Line -> Magnet -> Wall -> Electric Floor -> Drop Down / Ledge Takedown -> Silent Takedown with the Disruptor used if I need a bit of a help.  Having said that even though it's supposed to be fixed it's really easy to have freeze see you at the wrong moments and screw up the route.  I never have any problems like that until after the electric floor but tbh I'm not sure whether the silent takedown is that good as it actually takes me longer to set up than the grate and has a much longer animation.  If I ever do a segmented for this I'm going to very carefully catalogue exact times.  For now I have a strong route that is easy to pull off consistenly with about 3 backup plans depending on when I screw something up.

Steel Mill Snipers: I don't have a HD TV yet which was a pain for this trying to figure out which snipers I'd disarmed because I had to play that run in black and white.  However I've now got a new route which helps a lot.  I say 'route' it's basically just standing in the middle batclawing everyone till there's only three on the ground and then taking them out like a combat.

Steel Mill Predator No. 2: If you thought that was good, I've got a new route which is easier to do consistently and, with perfect execution, gets from one door to the other in about half the time.

Other Changes I've made to the route include most of the game (seriously, I may as well be running a totally different game!):

I have some new tactics for Two-Face
Different path in the Church which saves about 5 secs
Tweak to the first Steel Mill predator route (2 secs saved)
A new route on Penguin's Jammers saving about 5 secs (ironically I found a new route for the third jammer which is another 10 seconds faster and much riskier although I get about 600 less experience from it, and I need that exp for the Sonic Shock anyway so I make the time back.)
New routing on the Museum Predator (yay Sonic Shock abuse!)
New tactics for the ice skating (thanks Darthknight!)
Faster outdoor route to Ra's (thanks again Darthknight)
New wonder tower Predator 1 route
More consistant fight and tactics for Ra's
New fight plan for Joker's Fun House with keeps Abramovich and the Titan separate about 3 out of every 5 times.
New Heli scanning path.
Better routes for both Tiger Predator missions.
Not screwing up on Clayface.

Unfortunately what I haven't done is put all of that into the SAME run.  Which should be interesting...  I was thinking of saying my new target time is 1:55 but in reality any sub-2 run without deaths will be fine by me!

On Jeremy's Last Comment: Thanks.  The way you beat my time is to die a lot less than I do and keep playing.  I hope you do come back to this game (but don't get too good. I don't actually want you to beat my time yet!).  Also you will need to reinstall the game.  We should probably try some races on SpeedRunsLive as well, that'll help you to get better.
thethrillness.blogspot.com
Do you think a new run will be posted soon Robo? Can't wait to watch it! Smiley
Magical. Flying. Bathtub
Quote from AnubisGI:
Do you think a new run will be posted soon Robo? Can't wait to watch it! Smiley


Going to make an attempt tonight (maybe 2 if the first one goes bad), just waiting for the game to reinstall (wiped it earlier to see if there were any bugs I could find without updates, but there aren't updates for it yet! Oh well)  Although I have had a bunch of beers already so that will either bugger up my reaction time or relax me and allow muscle memory to take over...  Either way it'll be the first run that uses everything I've noted above.
thethrillness.blogspot.com
Good luck my friend. May sub 2 be with you.

Just realised that rhymed...
Magical. Flying. Bathtub
Argh I've suddenly been having the most infuriating time with this game - so many attempts but I finally got it down to 1:58.  I can't submit it though because I died a whole bunch of times in that attempt Sad
thethrillness.blogspot.com
1:58 and errors? Nice! So 1:55 is the target you think?

Upload the run please.... I am bored.
Magical. Flying. Bathtub
I would but it's an 11.6Gb video file so it'll take ages to get converted and online.

If I don't get a submittable run in the next week or so I'll think about uploading this one instead.
holy crap, 1:58.  that isnt just tightening up execution then.  you made some serious improvements somewhere i think.  damn!
Edit history:
TheThrillness: 2012-05-04 08:49:38 am
thethrillness.blogspot.com
Any updates Robo? I finished Uni (still need marks back though) so I can finally watch a run. Smiley
Magical. Flying. Bathtub
I've decided not to upload the 1:58 yet as there are just too many shitty mistakes and I'm so close to getting a good run...

Had a decent run today until I somehow died on Joker's goons on your way out of the subway to save Sharpie.  I have literally never died on those guys (and I've died pretty much everywhere) until today.  On the other hand, I managed to cock up the fight outside the church so I missed the chance to get 20 seconds ahead of my old time less than 10 minutes into the run, I nearly died in the first Steel Mill fight and I nearly missed getting the Sonic Shock so perhaps it's a blessing in disguise.  Based on how well I was doing in that run time-wise I really think I should be aiming for a 1:55 sans deaths

I'm in the middle of editing together an odd blooper which I thought I'd found a game-breaking trick.  Basically what happened is I died in Two-faces courthouse to the armed thug after taking out all of the regular ones and still got the cutscene at the end which interuppted Batman's death.  Unfortunately it just took me to the death screen afterwards and everything was the same when I restarted.  Boring... Sad
Magical. Flying. Bathtub
Right, so I got a run without dying, finally.  And it's clocked in at 01:52:43 by SDA timing.  Yay!  BUT - the whole last chapter from the first encounter with stun stick guys right up until and including Joker's snipers was bad.  Really bad.  As in "gibbering panic fest when I nearly died TWICE and probably cost about a minute" bad.  Now this run had its ups and downs like all runs do but that, to me, doesn't look like something I'm comfortable submitting, so I'm really not sure whether I should.  On the other hand, getting through the whole game without dying feels like a huge achievement in itself!  Plus it puts the whole "I think I can get sub 2 if I practised more" thing into perspective...

What do you guys think?

By the way, I'm not going for 1:50, even though I think it is possible with perfect everything, so don't ask Tongue
aka theenglishman
Regardless of whether you submit it, you should post it on YouTube!
thethrillness.blogspot.com
Quote from qubit:
Regardless of whether you submit it, you should post it on YouTube!


This, by god this. Each time I see a new post here I pray for a video.
Edit history:
RoboSparkle: 2012-05-15 11:52:44 am
RoboSparkle: 2012-05-15 11:51:57 am
RoboSparkle: 2012-05-14 06:05:26 pm
Magical. Flying. Bathtub
Quote from AnubisGI:
Quote from qubit:
Regardless of whether you submit it, you should post it on YouTube!


This, by god this. Each time I see a new post here I pray for a video.


Yeah sorry about that guys, every video I make is nearly 12GB of raw Batman, so I have to really weigh up the 24 hours of time where my shitty laptop cannot do anything else (including recording a goddamed submittable Batman run!) to get it compressed and uploaded to youtube.  I just had another run that I'll start formatting, even though this one clocked in at 1:54:11 with one death at Strange's bodyguards since even with the the death it would have been faster except for one thing... the damn helicopters.  The first one spotted me and took off most of my health and then the one with the codes spotted me and it took ages before it decided it couldn't see me anymore.  I literally lost 2 minutes and 16 seconds from that alone.  The rest of the run was so much better than the previous run (I was nearly a full minute ahead finishing the Steel Mill).  I basically had two major mistakes in that run and a few minor ones that cost at most 40 seconds across the whole run.

Anyway I'll start converting that one now.  Expect to see it up sometime this week...

EDIT: No it's not ready already.  But I just realised I haven't done a proper quality check, so if you want a sneak preview, check it out.  And also tell me if it fits SDA standards.  Don't expect much, it's only 20 seconds (even though it took upwards of 3 hours to do all of them!), barely enough time for a fight and a hack Wink
Edit history:
RoboSparkle: 2012-05-20 07:34:05 am
RoboSparkle: 2012-05-20 06:56:09 am
Magical. Flying. Bathtub
DAMN. Just got my best time ever and still died twice... Sad

EDIT: Double DAMN. My time was 01:51:51 and my deaths cost me 1 minute 57 seconds...

Also had the run just before that one ruined by an odd glitch I discovered...



I'll get the new video encoded, uploaded and post here when it's finished.  Still hunting for that submittable run though...
Magical. Flying. Bathtub
Ok, here is my 1:51:51 (or it will be when it's finished uploading - currently 72 minutes left!)



I may stick some notes on here as well. Depends how today's attempt goes...
thethrillness.blogspot.com
Quote from RoboSparkle:
Ok, here is my 1:51:51 (or it will be when it's finished uploading - currently 72 minutes left!)