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multi-takedown is by far the most powerful combat move imo.  get your self to 5 or 8 combo and since every enemy you are hitting gets knocked down, hit about 3 guys then do multi takedown and it is minus 3 enemies.  this is VERY fast.  i never get to the 14 needed for free flow focus outside of certain boss fights.  multi takedown works well with other gadgets too.  for example, get to the requisite 5 or 8 and quick shoot your electro gun at an armored guy and hit multi takedown.  armored guy is toast.  same is true with batarang tosses.  get to 5 or 8, toss some batarangs and then multi takedown.  as a way to speed up combat it is peerless.
King Wabasami
Well, just ran through the game on easy as fast as I could. with only fighting if necessary and getting the grapple upgrade I got 10 upgrades the 11th after I defeated Clayface.
Armor upgrades aren't necessary at all, but it couldn't hurt to get 1 or 2 on ballistics.

After I got Swarm, Multi-takedown, Crit strikes, and special combo boost I really just spent the points randomly.

Really didnt get to use freeflow focus at all, Blade dodge takedown didnt seem worth it. Disarm and destroy might seem worth it. I'd definitely get the batclaw disarm though, and the crypto upgrades couldn't hurt to get either.

Also, I think you can skip Ra's talking after you defeat the second gang of sand warriors or w/e they are on the Iceburg during the Trial of demons. Not sure on this though.
Magical. Flying. Bathtub
Quote from Joshkaz:
Armor upgrades aren't necessary at all, but it couldn't hurt to get 1 or 2 on ballistics.

Also, I think you can skip Ra's talking after you defeat the second gang of sand warriors or w/e they are on the Iceburg during the Trial of demons. Not sure on this though.

For easy mode you shouldn't need any armour upgrades, although that probably depends on your predator strats. Also remember that unlike B:AA you can't use them as health potions.

The batclaw dissarm would be very useful for the prdator missions though I'm not sure I agree with the Disarm and Destroy combat upgrade when you can just use an instant takedown.

Quote from jeremysaint:
multi-takedown is by far the most powerful combat move imo.  get your self to 5 or 8 combo and since every enemy you are hitting gets knocked down, hit about 3 guys then do multi takedown and it is minus 3 enemies.  this is VERY fast.  i never get to the 14 needed for free flow focus outside of certain boss fights.  multi takedown works well with other gadgets too.  for example, get to the requisite 5 or 8 and quick shoot your electro gun at an armored guy and hit multi takedown.  armored guy is toast.  same is true with batarang tosses.  get to 5 or 8, toss some batarangs and then multi takedown.  as a way to speed up combat it is peerless.


Quickfire gel as well, it's my favourite way to clear an area quickly.
King Wabasami
Yea, I found no need for any armor upgrades but aside from
Crit, Swarm, Multi-takedown, Special Combo, Disarm, Crypto upgrades I can't think of anything else that'll be worth it.
So, theres like 2 or 3 upgrades left to spend.
hmm, if you are playing on easy then easy is definately different from my experience.  quick explosive gel is not actually that useful for me on hard.  at least not useful enough that i find it worth using.  the batclaw disarm seems like a very strange choice, i have basicly never taken it or wanted it.  and in predator any time you wanted to use batclaw disarm you could simply use the firearm disruptor instead, available after you rescue mr freeze.

for predator, what you want is sonic shock batarang.  defeat one enemy, no questions asked, everytime.  in the past i have made getting it a priority, but i think in the future i will put it off a little and go for armor to have more of a cushion on boss fights.  also, i think i will give in and get freeflow focus after all, just to help on the ra's fight.  i am not sure how much it will help but i will give it a try.

i am also increasingly sure that the 3 minutes spent getting the grapnel boost is worth it.  if played truly perfectly i suspect it will not save much time, but if played by a human in a single segment (which is what i am planning to do) then the extra advantage it grants is definately worth it.  and the 500 xp early can matter.

finally, it is worth noting that you can not get the bonus xp from riddler challenges until you have grabbed at least one riddler trophy.  i get my first trophy after destroying the first penguin jammer, which seems a little late.  i would be interested in any advice you have for an easy earlier trophy.  ideally before acquiring the elctro gun.

ps, thanks for the advice about getting into the police station.  it is tricky getting to slide under the door instead of auto targetting sliding into the guys in front of it.  i think it may be worth it to take them both out first for safety sake, but either way it definately saves time.
ok...

you can skip the fights in front of the police station/lab both times.  remember to use the electtor gub manually if there are dudes between you and the door instead of guickfiring it or it will hit a dude.

by getting the very first riddler trophy, on the way to courthouse on a roof top stand on a plate and either run to it or use batlcaw, i am able to get a ton more xp early.  enough that i begin to debate all the things i do for xp later.  after you get it, you toss a remote batarang and then catch it, then toss a remote at one of the dudes in front of the courthouse at full speed.  from there you will get even more xp and get it pretty quickly assuming you know what you are doing.  get one of the gliding distance ones on the way to the grapnel upgrade.  do one inverted takedown at some point...  etc etc.  so much more xp earlier, and it does make the combat faster.

freeflow focus did make a decent difference on ra's which is certainly a nice thing.  i am still trying to consistently plot out my upgrades since i am starting to skip getting sonic shock batarang and i think i really should actually just bite the bullet and grab it.  it does give a nice advantage in predator modes.

i am also in the middle of plotting out some optimal takedown paths for mr freeze but it seems he is somewhat inconsistent...

i can not emphasize how much it is not worth rushing to save 1 second at a high risk.  this whole speedrun thing has got me really energized.  now i am curious where i can post the eventual run.  i will be recording in hd but i can not record and stream at the same time.  does anyone have any suggestions?  i figure the final run will be arround 12 gigs.
ok...

you can skip the fights in front of the police station/lab both times.  remember to use the electtor gub manually if there are dudes between you and the door instead of guickfiring it or it will hit a dude.

by getting the very first riddler trophy, on the way to courthouse on a roof top stand on a plate and either run to it or use batlcaw, i am able to get a ton more xp early.  enough that i begin to debate all the things i do for xp later.  after you get it, you toss a remote batarang and then catch it, then toss a remote at one of the dudes in front of the courthouse at full speed.  from there you will get even more xp and get it pretty quickly assuming you know what you are doing.  get one of the gliding distance ones on the way to the grapnel upgrade.  do one inverted takedown at some point...  etc etc.  so much more xp earlier, and it does make the combat faster.

freeflow focus did make a decent difference on ra's which is certainly a nice thing.  i am still trying to consistently plot out my upgrades since i am starting to skip getting sonic shock batarang and i think i really should actually just bite the bullet and grab it.  it does give a nice advantage in predator modes.

i am also in the middle of plotting out some optimal takedown paths for mr freeze but it seems he is somewhat inconsistent...

i can not emphasize how much it is not worth rushing to save 1 second at a high risk.  this whole speedrun thing has got me really energized.  now i am curious where i can post the eventual run.  i will be recording in hd but i can not record and stream at the same time.  does anyone have any suggestions?  i figure the final run will be arround 12 gigs.
Edit history:
qubit: 2012-01-15 01:22:36 pm
qubit: 2012-01-15 01:21:58 pm
aka theenglishman
You can also skip the TYGER guard fight at Wonder Tower in the elevator.  Execute a roll to the far left when you're on top of the elevator, and go straight to the console.  Once you hack it, the TYGER guards will spot you, but just throw down a smoke bomb and proceed to the ledge-hanging section and climbing up the tower.

Demonstrated in this video:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_detailpage&v=7wddfa08vf8#t=77s
actually we have discussed that already and you can skip the hack and the fight.  if you do want to hack you can do it from the roof with improved hack range but it is easier to just jup off the roof and glide arround to the side instead.
ok...

i did it.  i recorded the whole thing in HD, and recorded with live audio commentary the whole way, explaining every trick and lamenting every mistake.  i just uploaded the entire thing to twitchtv at this link.

http://www.justin.tv/jeremysaint/b/306070645

if any of you have feedback, positive or negative, i would love to hear from you.  also, the final file is just under 6 gigs and i cant find a good place to upload it to, so i guess twitch tv it is.

oh, final time including all mistakes and a bizarre glitch i have never seen is 2 hours, 33 minutes and 39 seconds.

the glitch cost about 3 minutes, and various assorted mistakes account for about 5 more minutes over the course of the gameplay.


NOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO

i dont get it.  the audio to twitch tv is awful.  but the audio on the file i have on my harddrive is fine!  not great, there is some mic hiss, but otherwise fine.  i dont get it!!!!!!!!  DAMNIT!!!!!!!

well anyways, the run is up there for review if anyone wants it.  otherwise i think i am done with this for a while.  at least until i learn how to sort out this audio issue.  seriously!  damnit.  this took 7 or so hours start to finish, not counting all the time spent practicing.  and now the audio is crap!?!!?
i have no idea why the audio is crap.  it is fine on my original recording.  if anyone can reccomend a file hosting site i could upload it to that will handle 6 gigs for free, i would appreciate it.
Edit history:
RoboSparkle: 2012-01-20 07:16:27 pm
Magical. Flying. Bathtub
nice work, can't wait to watch this.

BTW have you considered registering on the forum jeremy?

EDIT: yeah the audio is pretty bad. If the audio recorded is pretty fine on your end, will you be able to add a separate audio file? Or type up the comments, I can't really understand you I'm afraid
aka theenglishman
I definitely want to see this with fixed audio.  Maybe you could upload it to YouTube or as an mp4 on 4shared or something?
the game audio is perfect, recorded with the hd pvr.  my audio commentary is fine certainly, but not perfect.  anyways, i may have figured out the problem so we will see soon.
Magical. Flying. Bathtub
Hey, watched the whole thing and it looks great.  I wanted that there as a disclaimer because I'm going to be as picky as I can. Now I couldn't tell what you'd already covered from the commentary and until my hand is healed I won't be able test any of this in an SS setting to see what's viable, so I'm just going to put every possible improvement that I noticed:

1) Combat. This is the biggest area for improvement in the run as a lot of time is wasted from getting hit (even before you died in the joker/titan/lieutenant combat) I would have reset after the courthouse in particular. EVERY eligable hit should be a Critical. The explosive gel is your friend in hard mode as it'll get enemies off your back and allow more instant takedowns. Also, you were struggling to dodge the abramovici twins when you should have used the bat swarm to stun them. This leads on to...

2) Armour. Once 1) is fixed you shouldn't need combat armour at all (I don't even think you used it in your second shot at the Joker fight) So get ballistic instead as it will allow you to be riskier in the silent predator areas (you probably wouldn't have died outside the Steel Mill either

3) Ladders: You can grab the courthouse ladder from the other side, should save about 1/2 a second. Yes I know, but it's an easy improvement. I did say I was going to be picky, right?

4) AR training: There are a few opportunities between each AR training course to grapnel to the next one while in midair. Very slightly quicker than doing it from a standing position

5) Steel Mill: When dousing the hot rail with water, if you charge at it right away, Batman should be stunned for long enough for you to immediately vault over it at the first possible opportunity. It should help with timing. (btw: I'm happy to see that you used the same route as me. I was wondering if there was a faster way...)

6) GCPD: Smoke Bomb and REC to get in - you shouln't need to takedown anyone.

7) GCPD Silent Predator: Going through the vents takes too long. If you Quickfire Gel past the nearest door, the guard will see you and call everyone out to the corridor. Between the smoke pellets, gel and batclaw, you should have no problem taking out all 5 in no time!  It's a riskier strat than yours, but you should be able to cope.

8) Museum: If you're getting penguins, you may as well get the one in the first room where you hack the terminal.

9) Museum glitch: I'm not sure what caused that. I don't have the game atm so I can't test it. It may be caused by the game thinking that you were going to enter that room before saving Fries, if so you may just have to reset as soon as you enter that room

10) Exploding Walls: If you dive at a wall when detonating the explosive gel, you can avoid the "stun" animation. The timing's hard to explain, but once you get it the first time you'll find it really easy.  The current run of Arkham Asylum on the site does this I believe.

11) Solomon Grundy: You can gel the floor plates and set them off even while they're supplying grundy with juice. You just need to be more careful about it.

12) The line launcher is faster than running, there are probably a few places where you can abuse it more

13) Trials: You can go to the next tower before Ra's does. You can also use the grapnel boost to get there quicker and dive towards the pits before they are "activated"

14) Mr. Freeze: Nice fight, I'd say that you don't need to use the floor grates, getting him there only wastes time, as you didn't use the silent takedown from behind or the glide kick, neither of which causes Freeze to waste as much time destroying parts of the room

15) Hacking Terminals: Most noticable going into Wonder Tower, try and get both sides of the code word at the same time rather than one at a time. Also if you have all the codes written on a cheat sheet you won't accidentally put the wrong one in

16) Wonder Tower Silent Predator: The guards will never end up in that preferred starting position after you've been climbing up, it's best to restart sooner


Anyway, there's a lot there, don't know how much will be viable for you but just wanted to say that even with the errors it was a great run, nice work!
thank-you for the feedback robosparkles.  i am constantly trying to resolve the audio issue unsuccessfully.  if any of you are smart computer people, i am confident the issue is my microphone input is being broadcast instead of my speaker output.  but i cant find a way to fix it using xsplit.  aaaahhhh!!!!????

i am aware of most of the tips you have but i ussually go with a slightly safer method since i am doing a single segment speedrun.  in fact if i ever get this to work i acutally explain most of the tricks even when i dont do them, but without audio it is pretty hard to tell that.

are you certain the line launcher is faster then running?

if i decided to try this again i will definately attempt your gcpd quickfire gel strat.

thanks for the tip on grundy, i didnt know that.

for combat, i actually disagree about crits.  enemies go down to the multi takedown.  crits are nice, but i am focussing my attention on other things.
during the courthouse fight, while i certainly screwed it up, i could not have had crits there.  you dont have enough xp for any upgrades at that point.

i actually commented on getting to the next tower before ras in the run, but i find the increased risk of failure from having nowhere to go to not worth the 1 or 2 seconds saved.

on freeze it wasnt til after i was done that i realized i didnt use the silent takedown.  kind of crazy that i would forget the fastest and easiest one.

i estimate that my various errors cost me a little under 10 minutes including that glitch which was almost exactly 3 minutes.

thank-you for the feedback.
Magical. Flying. Bathtub
Quote from jeremysaint:
are you certain the line launcher is faster then running?

Positive, IF you are running far enough in a straight line then it will save some time, as you have to account for getting the line up.  That's why it's abused so much when running B:AA

Quote:
for combat, i actually disagree about crits.  enemies go down to the multi takedown.  crits are nice, but i am focussing my attention on other things.
during the courthouse fight, while i certainly screwed it up, i could not have had crits there.  you dont have enough xp for any upgrades at that point.


Sorry I should have clarified that you should be getting crits when they are available (didn't mean during courthouse); this is to get your multiplier up quicker as you only need two crits and a batarang to get a x5 multiplier, then you have 3 guys on the floor for the takedown. Crit strikes also knock enemies down for marginally longer (not much but can make the difference between hitting them with the multi takedown and missing). Crits do double damage (I think it's double) so they help with the Ra's fight as I don't think the ground takedowns work on his clones (could be wrong about that, though, I vaguely remember that they dodge all projectiles).

Quote:
i actually commented on getting to the next tower before ras in the run, but i find the increased risk of failure from having nowhere to go to not worth the 1 or 2 seconds saved.


You do actually get a very wide margin of error there, as long as the tower you are on has reached its maximum height since the towers raise up while Ra's is talking.  I appreciate that you don't want to risk dying in an SS for the sake of a few seconds but imo you are being too cautious there.

It's good to see a great run already and refreshing to see a sub 2:30 is going to be quite possible with little work, perhaps even a sub 2:20.  Sorry I can't help with the audio issues, I'm really not very technical (don't even really know what I need to stream/record my own runs) but if you fix it or successfully extract the audio in a separate file, I'd love to hear it.
if i could add images you would be seeing adrian veidt celebrating, arms raised, shouting I DID IT!



in about 24 hours google should have finished rendering/ acquiring my video and all the world will be able to see me lose a battle i really should not have in my single segment speedrun.  that said, i do believe it is a competitive run and worth consideration.

this is the same run i tried to upload to twitchtv, hopefully by uploading it directly to youtube it will have decent audio.

i may decide to try and do a better run eventually, but i am not certain.
Edit history:
qubit: 2012-01-22 03:07:58 pm
aka theenglishman
Allow me, then.




Quote from jeremysaint:
i may decide to try and do a better run eventually, but i am not certain.


Then go ahead!  Push yourself to the limit, man, that's what we do here.  It seems to me like you're not that confident in your current record, and the unwritten rule is, keep running a game until you yourself are at least 95% satisfied with it (if you went for constant perfection you'd never get anywhere!).  There's absolutely no shame in trying to beat old runs, and I'd love to see further work from you on this game.
AHHHH VIDEO PROCESS FASTER!!!
(╯°□°)╯︵ ┻━┻
the video is at 27 percent atm, but youtube says it will take another 1400 minutes.  then again it has said that from the start.  either way, it wont be until tomorrow i think.  also, please toss some critique my way.  i suspect i will try another run at some point, maybe after i get an expensive mic with noise cancelling features.
so i went to bed and a windows auto updater came on and turned off my comp it seems.  grrr.  however youtube apparently saves the ammount of progress, which is cool, so i guess i dont have to start over?  i sure hope i dont.
Edit history:
qubit: 2012-01-23 12:54:51 pm
aka theenglishman
Yeah, I'm watching the run now actually.  I'm pwnedTAS on YouTube and I'll be the one making several lengthy comments Tongue

I apologize for all the nitpicking, but your route seems so solid anyway I feel I should nitpick just to help you save even more time =)
qubit, and anyone else.  please make as much criticism as you can.  it is all appreciated!  but i cant say for certain i will be able to make use of it all, at least not any time soon.  arkham city takes 8 gigs on my 360 harddrive and i kind of want that memory back.  it is a very small hard drive after all.  what is more, i have these other games i picked up and i would kind of like to play them some day...

however, there have been a few significant improvements i can make pointed out to me, beyond simply playing better and not making 2 SERIOUS mistakes in the second half.  i will probably have to bite the bullet and try to make another run at some point.

anyways, thanks for the feedback all.
qubit, is your name a refference to the character from irredeemable?