Bastion

2011-08-23 04:58:09 am

I might do a serious new game run after I've done a serious ng+ run. I'm still just playing through it a couple of times daily trying to get everything to stick perfectly.
Sometimes on stream in front of friends to get a input on where they think most of my mistakes are. Not that they are to experienced or interested in it though. But its a moral support thing. Tongue

MiyazuHime

2011-10-11 09:36:10 am

Hmm do you count videos which couldn't be skipped to your speedrun time?

MAS8705

Edit history:

MAS8705: 2011-10-11 11:45:16 am

2011-10-11 10:50:04 am

SDA Apprentice -- (3-1)

Quote from MiyazuHime:

Hmm do you count videos which couldn't be skipped to your speedrun time?

If it isn't the ending, the unskipable scenes are indeed added to the final speed run time (hence why alot of the RPGs on this site have a long run time)...

Anyway, I'm pleased to announce that after my first round of "What game should I play next" I have a three way tie, and while I'll do a bit of crackdown and prototype on and off, I'll also be focusing on Bastion as well until either I complete a speed run or if someone beats me to it...

Also Wago, I'm still hesitant on the whole "leave Zulf behind" since it is faster... Granted through if it is faster, would you be able to say as to which people don't need to be killed compared to those who have to be killed (such as those who get in your way)

((edited after miyazu's post))

Nice time... Hopefully we can get a good run of Bastion to contribute to SDA... Also two other things...

1) was your run a NG or NG+
2) Welcome to SDA... Smiley

[quote="MiyazuHime"]Hmm do you count videos which couldn't be skipped to your speedrun time?[/quote]

If it isn't the ending, the unskipable scenes are indeed added to the final speed run time (hence why alot of the RPGs on this site have a long run time)...

Anyway, I'm pleased to announce that after my first round of "What game should I play next" I have a three way tie, and while I'll do a bit of crackdown and prototype on and off, I'll also be focusing on Bastion as well until either I complete a speed run or if someone beats me to it...

Also Wago, I'm still hesitant on the whole "leave Zulf behind" since it is faster...  Granted through if it is faster, would you be able to say as to which people don't need to be killed compared to those who have to be killed (such as those who get in your way)

((edited after miyazu's post))

Nice time...  Hopefully we can get a good run of Bastion to contribute to SDA...  Also two other things...

1) was your run a NG or NG+
2) Welcome to SDA... :)

MiyazuHime

Edit history:

MiyazuHime: 2011-10-11 11:41:04 am

2011-10-11 11:40:20 am

My personal best 1h16m Tongue

Gonna make next speedrun tomorrow..

Caelint

2011-10-15 02:44:48 pm

Nice to see the game gets some attention again, 1:16 is a good start indeed. I still believe sub 1h for NG is possible, and a SDA worthy run would definitely be very close. If your run was NG, optimized shopping is the key to go under 1h. I'll try to help, although the previous 2 pages covers all our findings so far.

As for the Zulf part, I timed the difference once, and leaving Zulf was indeed 20 seconds faster as Wago guessed, killing only those who get in your way, as you're invincible anyway.

Lawyer Dog

Edit history:

Lawyer Dog: 2012-07-16 01:33:33 pm

Lawyer Dog: 2012-07-16 01:32:36 pm

Lawyer Dog: 2012-01-15 03:43:04 pm

Lawyer Dog: 2012-01-14 09:57:59 pm

Lawyer Dog: 2012-01-14 03:49:22 pm

Lawyer Dog: 2012-01-14 08:44:17 am

Lawyer Dog: 2012-01-14 05:00:04 am

Lawyer Dog: 2012-01-14 04:59:43 am

2012-01-14 04:57:31 am

ClockworkSeal and I have now started racing Bastion, so hopefully we'll start getting good times at some point. Our first race where neither of us had ever tried to do a speedrun of the game before is uploaded here if anyone is curious. Times ended up being 1:19:41 and 1:24:40, starting the time at hitting "New Game" and ending it when an ending is chosen. Low quality video and only ClockworkSeal was able to use his mic because this was just a silly test run.

And for something that is less of a trainwreck, here's a decent attempt at a Roathus Lagoon New Game route that's about 1:25, compared to the about 1:45 on the last page. It's on Score Attack, but upgrades and spirits are changed to be useless or practically useless, to make the damage output as close to an actual New Game run as possible, and the one time the damage output matters I messed up anyway. Queen Anne is killed for the exp and shards since it's a large amount of them for what should be a very tiny amount of time lost (she should die on the second time popping up if I don't miss the grenades.)
Roathus Lagoon

Edit: You can kill Queen Anne on a New Game the first time she pops up if you use werewhiskey and whale ale. A grenade and two spear stabs will kill her.
Editedit: So far our times have been:
ClockworkSeal - 1:24:40
LawyerDog - 1:19:41
ClockworkSeal - 1:10:33
LawyerDog - 1:06:43
ClockworkSeal - 1:05:47

Below 1 hour should be possible. Burstone Quarry now routed out, video of it here:
Burstone Quarry

ClockworkSeal and I have now started racing Bastion, so hopefully we'll start getting good times at some point. Our first race where neither of us had ever tried to do a speedrun of the game before is uploaded [url=http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sI97M5R5afE]here[/url] if anyone is curious. Times ended up being 1:19:41 and 1:24:40, starting the time at hitting "New Game" and ending it when an ending is chosen. Low quality video and only ClockworkSeal was able to use his mic because this was just a silly test run.

And for something that is less of a trainwreck, here's a decent attempt at a Roathus Lagoon New Game route that's about 1:25, compared to the about 1:45 on the last page. It's on Score Attack, but upgrades and spirits are changed to be useless or practically useless, to make the damage output as close to an actual New Game run as possible, and the one time the damage output matters I messed up anyway. Queen Anne is killed for the exp and shards since it's a large amount of them for what should be a very tiny amount of time lost (she should die on the second time popping up if I don't miss the grenades.)
[url=http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pW4nO8M1CyA]Roathus Lagoon[/url]

Edit: You can kill Queen Anne on a New Game the first time she pops up if you use werewhiskey and whale ale. A grenade and two spear stabs will kill her.
Editedit: So far our times have been:
ClockworkSeal - 1:24:40
LawyerDog - 1:19:41
ClockworkSeal - 1:10:33
LawyerDog - 1:06:43
ClockworkSeal - 1:05:47

Below 1 hour should be possible. Burstone Quarry now routed out, video of it here:
[url=http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nbdSOEAwPDc]Burstone Quarry[/url]

MSK

2012-01-18 09:31:40 am

I started practicing the ng+ of this game a few weeks ago. I'm at just over 1:30... which is pretty bad after seeing your runs.

TRT

2012-01-18 09:59:05 am

Trying to speedrun the challenges with 10 idols myself. Been watching a few videos and cant understand how cosistant some are with the carbine aoe. If i could do that i could ditch mortar and go spear/carbine.

Lawyer Dog

Edit history:

Lawyer Dog: 2012-07-16 01:34:11 pm

2012-01-21 05:00:29 pm

Prosper Bluff route. Also, for the record, ClockworkSeal and I use the keyboard+mouse for Bastion. We're going to try to do a race again tomorrow that should be way better than the first one. Not sure how we're going to have it set up (Ideally a page with both streams embedded if we can get a hold of our internet guru), but there will probably be a thread made in the live streaming forum for it when it happens.
Prosper Bluff

ClockworkSeal

2012-01-22 09:56:28 am

re: 'optimized shopping is the key to go under 1h.'

The gear changes/skills/buildings/spirits I plan to use for my next run are:

Pick Up Hammer
Pick up Shield (You're forced to anyway)
Pick Up Breaker's Bow (Lawyerdog is an advocate of repeater over bow, since you really only use either a few times at the very beginning of the game)
Pick up Whirlwind Strike (It makes the big fight at the end of Wharf a lot faster to kill the scumbags and big gasfellas with it)
Build Distillery, Equip Werewhiskey
Build Armory or Forge (doesn't matter), skip Graver Falchion (Might be worth picking it up for Jawson Bog maybe? I haven't really tried it yet because you have to go out of the way to get it)
Pick up Trip Mines
Build other of Armory or Forge
Pick up Grenades
Pick up Something Burnt
Build Lost and Found, buy Whale Ale, Equip Whale Ale (I'm reasonably certain this saves time in the long run, enabling a quick kill on Queen Anne and letting you two-shot the scumbags/gasfellas at cinderbrick with grenades, allows a number of grenade one-shots on key enemies throughout a lot of levels, lets you one-shot the final boss)
Pick up Scrap Musket
Build Memorial or Shrine (doesn't matter at this point)
Build Last structure
Upgrade Distillery, Equip Black Rye
Upgrade Lost and Found
After Point Lemaign: Upgrade any building Purchase Something Pointy x2, Pike Vault, Upgrade Pike 2x (possibly swap whale ale for lifewine at this point, it very well may some amount of time since there are bosses it will let you just attack rapidly and ignore a hit you take with werewhiskey active. Another Lawyerdog-preferred option)
Upgrade Any Building again
Pick up Galleon Mortar
Upgrade Any Building
Upgrade Final Building, Get Funds from Memorial, Buy Something Pointy and Something Burnt, upgrade Pike to 3 and Mortar to 2
Pick up Hopscotch
Pick up Ram

This covers all significant items to acquire, gets enough upgrades for the attack speed buff and aiming speed buff with spear and mortar. I'm honestly not convinced that the cannon is worth it in NG, since there's basically nothing left to shoot with it by the time you reach Zulten Hollow -- The mortar has a lot of benefits re: placing AoE and taking out conduits, and since the lag on a mortar shot is after you fire it you can spear another conduit while it's en route. The most important thing about this route is that you NEVER have to set foot inside an armory to swap skills or equipment.

While it does cost time to upgrade the mortar, you'll definitely make it up against the Rocktails at the end of Uzendra Gate and the conduits. Reload - and Aiming Speed + are incredibly useful.

re: 'optimized shopping is the key to go under 1h.'

The gear changes/skills/buildings/spirits I plan to use for my next run are:

Pick Up Hammer
Pick up Shield (You're forced to anyway)
Pick Up Breaker's Bow (Lawyerdog is an advocate of repeater over bow, since you really only use either a few times at the very beginning of the game)
Pick up Whirlwind Strike (It makes the big fight at the end of Wharf a lot faster to kill the scumbags and big gasfellas with it)
Build Distillery, Equip Werewhiskey
Build Armory or Forge (doesn't matter), skip Graver Falchion (Might be worth picking it up for Jawson Bog maybe?  I haven't really tried it yet because you have to go out of the way to get it)
Pick up Trip Mines
Build other of Armory or Forge
Pick up Grenades
Pick up Something Burnt
Build Lost and Found, buy Whale Ale, Equip Whale Ale (I'm reasonably certain this saves time in the long run, enabling a quick kill on Queen Anne and letting you two-shot the scumbags/gasfellas at cinderbrick with grenades, allows a number of grenade one-shots on key enemies throughout a lot of levels, lets you one-shot the final boss)
Pick up Scrap Musket
Build Memorial or Shrine (doesn't matter at this point)
Build Last structure
Upgrade Distillery, Equip Black Rye
Upgrade Lost and Found
After Point Lemaign: Upgrade any building Purchase Something Pointy x2, Pike Vault, Upgrade Pike 2x (possibly swap whale ale for lifewine at this point, it very well may some amount of time since there are bosses it will let you just attack rapidly and ignore a hit you take with werewhiskey active.  Another Lawyerdog-preferred option)
Upgrade Any Building again
Pick up Galleon Mortar
Upgrade Any Building
Upgrade Final Building, Get Funds from Memorial, Buy Something Pointy and Something Burnt, upgrade Pike to 3 and Mortar to 2
Pick up Hopscotch
Pick up Ram

This covers all significant items to acquire, gets enough upgrades for the attack speed buff and aiming speed buff with spear and mortar.  I'm honestly not convinced that the cannon is worth it in NG, since there's basically nothing left to shoot with it by the time you reach Zulten Hollow -- The mortar has a lot of benefits re: placing AoE and taking out conduits, and since the lag on a mortar shot is after you fire it you can spear another conduit while it's en route.  The most important thing about this route is that you NEVER have to set foot inside an armory to swap skills or equipment.

While it does cost time to upgrade the mortar, you'll definitely make it up against the Rocktails at the end of Uzendra Gate and the conduits.  Reload - and Aiming Speed + are incredibly useful.

SMK

2012-01-22 05:39:11 pm

Neat stuff. I've been meaning to get back into running this game. You guys should do some races on speedrunslive.

A quick question, have you been able to find any good pike-vault skips in Mount Zand? I've tried, but I can't seem to make anything work. Also, Bow all the way!

ClockworkSeal

2012-01-22 11:06:16 pm

We thought about doing some today, but we're still pretty rough and were just sort of slapping things together at the last minute. Lawyerdog might be stitching the stream videos together for it right now? Our times were 1:02:18 and 1:02:22. The sad part is that the 1:02:18 included a mistake against queen anne so that was actually the time playing through Roathus Lagoon -twice-.

There just isn't a lot to be gained by vaulting in Zand, really. You can roll straight through the level except for two points where the mortar will break things open in one shot anyway (and you want the mortar, Uzendra Gate will take entirely too long without it). If you do it right, you can get through all of Mt Zand with two quickfire mortar shots that kill up to one cactus in total. Pike Vault is really a killer in Coulford Cauldron, Burrstone Quarry, and the Tazal Terminals. It is also a godsend in some early levels (like Prosper Bluff) in a NG+.

Hilariously, Mt Zand has the trick with the most precise timing in the game, and it saves less than half a second if you pull it off. We found a couple of goofy skips (one saves about half a second, another saves a solid 2) just today.

Hopefully He'll have the video of the race up in the near future.

We thought about doing some today, but we're still pretty rough and were just sort of slapping things together at the last minute.  Lawyerdog might be stitching the stream videos together for it right now?  Our times were 1:02:18 and 1:02:22.  The sad part is that the 1:02:18 included a mistake against queen anne so that was actually the time playing through Roathus Lagoon -twice-.

There just isn't a lot to be gained by vaulting in Zand, really.  You can roll straight through the level except for two points where the mortar will break things open in one shot anyway (and you want the mortar, Uzendra Gate will take entirely too long without it).  If you do it right, you can get through all of Mt Zand with two quickfire mortar shots that kill up to one cactus in total.  Pike Vault is really a killer in Coulford Cauldron, Burrstone Quarry, and the Tazal Terminals.  It is also a godsend in some early levels (like Prosper Bluff) in a NG+.

Hilariously, Mt Zand has the trick with the most precise timing in the game, and it saves less than half a second if you pull it off.  We found a couple of goofy skips (one saves about half a second, another saves a solid 2) just today.

Hopefully He'll have the video of the race up in the near future.

Lawyer Dog

Edit history:

Lawyer Dog: 2012-01-23 01:32:19 am

2012-01-23 12:19:19 am

Quote from ClockworkSeal:

Lawyerdog might be stitching the stream videos together for it right now? Our times were 1:02:18 and 1:02:22.

YEP. Note: Contains many swears.

Caelint

2012-01-23 01:19:27 pm

Why would you want to pick up so many weapons? I basically finished my runs with the hammer and the pike, and with trip mines. You really need to consider how much time it takes to get the weapons, switching them in the armory, etc. Where do you think you can get all that time back? Why would you need whirlwind strike for example, if you can skip the whole encounter with the launch skip? And why getting the grenades, if you can skip them, including the whole 'grenade tutorial' part? Getting the pike vault for a single vault in the quarry in NG is also a waste of time, even if it saves around 3 seconds, think about all the time spent getting the upgrade and equipping it. Basically you should strive for the absolute minimum of equipment, and then if you feel uncomfortable, or getting your ass kicked somewhere, figure out what's the problem and find out what you REALLY need to solve it. Basically I only needed the hammer with power attack, and the pike, which is two pickups and one upgrade, and I easily finished the game with them, that's why I see getting anything else a waste of time. You should at least try a very minimal run and see the difference.

Lawyer Dog

2012-01-23 01:42:05 pm

Quote from Caelint:

Why would you want to pick up so many weapons? I basically finished my runs with the hammer and the pike, and with trip mines. You really need to consider how much time it takes to get the weapons, switching them in the armory, etc. Where do you think you can get all that time back? Why would you need whirlwind strike for example, if you can skip the whole encounter with the launch skip? And why getting the grenades, if you can skip them, including the whole 'grenade tutorial' part? Getting the pike vault for a single vault in the quarry in NG is also a waste of time, even if it saves around 3 seconds, think about all the time spent getting the upgrade and equipping it. Basically you should strive for the absolute minimum of equipment, and then if you feel uncomfortable, or getting your ass kicked somewhere, figure out what's the problem and find out what you REALLY need to solve it. Basically I only needed the hammer with power attack, and the pike, which is two pickups and one upgrade, and I easily finished the game with them, that's why I see getting anything else a waste of time. You should at least try a very minimal run and see the difference.

We never switch anything in the armory now. Whirlwind Strike makes the boss in Workmen Ward a lot faster. Grenades save so much time in so many places and it costs no time to get them. Pike vault is used in a lot of places, saves a ton of time, and there is no need to equip it because it automatically equips. Nothing even comes close to the damage and versatility of the Mortar, and the Musket is a high increase in DPS for a tiny amount of time spent getting it. Trip mines are just awful.

The times are so high because we are still working on execution. The 1:02:18 would have been around 1:00:48 just without the restarting of Roathus Lagoon, and there's still plenty of mistakes besides that.

[quote="Caelint"]Why would you want to pick up so many weapons? I basically finished my runs with the hammer and the pike, and with trip mines. You really need to consider how much time it takes to get the weapons, switching them in the armory, etc. Where do you think you can get all that time back? Why would you need whirlwind strike for example, if you can skip the whole encounter with the launch skip? And why getting the grenades, if you can skip them, including the whole 'grenade tutorial' part? Getting the pike vault for a single vault in the quarry in NG is also a waste of time, even if it saves around 3 seconds, think about all the time spent getting the upgrade and equipping it. Basically you should strive for the absolute minimum of equipment, and then if you feel uncomfortable, or getting your ass kicked somewhere, figure out what's the problem and find out what you REALLY need to solve it. Basically I only needed the hammer with power attack, and the pike, which is two pickups and one upgrade, and I easily finished the game with them, that's why I see getting anything else a waste of time. You should at least try a very minimal run and see the difference.[/quote]
We never switch anything in the armory now. Whirlwind Strike makes the boss in Workmen Ward a lot faster. Grenades save so much time in so many places and it costs no time to get them. Pike vault is used in a lot of places, saves a ton of time, and there is no need to equip it because it automatically equips. Nothing even comes close to the damage and versatility of the Mortar, and the Musket is a high increase in DPS for a tiny amount of time spent getting it. Trip mines are just awful.

The times are so high because we are still working on execution. The 1:02:18 would have been around 1:00:48 just without the restarting of Roathus Lagoon, and there's still plenty of mistakes besides that.

Caelint

2012-01-23 02:40:18 pm

I see your points, and I am definitely going to check your recordings. 1:02:18 is not high lol, with my strats, I could barely go under 1h, so I am looking forward to your improvements, racing is definitely a good way to improve.

ClockworkSeal

2012-01-23 02:56:26 pm

The biggest reason for the musket isn't even the DPS increase (though the ability to quick kill the gasfellas and skip the big squirt spawns in Jawson Bog's dream sequence is huge), it's clearing out huge swaths of obstacles quickly and easily.

The mortar saves a TON of time at the end of uzendra gate because you can kill the rocktails while they're still burrowed. It is also quite good for taking out conduits in Zulten Hollow, and for adding damage to kill/damage yourself in the Bastion Assault and/or activate werewhiskey if you level up at an inconvenient time or an enemy drops a potion (since there are several enemies in the game who can drop potions randomly, as near as I can tell. They don't always).

Lawyer Dog

2012-01-23 03:03:00 pm

Quote from ClockworkSeal:

The biggest reason for the musket isn't even the DPS increase (though the ability to quick kill the gasfellas and skip the big squirt spawns in Jawson Bog's dream sequence is huge), it's clearing out huge swaths of obstacles quickly and easily.

The mortar saves a TON of time at the end of uzendra gate because you can kill the rocktails while they're still burrowed. It is also quite good for taking out conduits in Zulten Hollow, and for adding damage to kill/damage yourself in the Bastion Assault and/or activate werewhiskey if you level up at an inconvenient time or an enemy drops a potion (since there are several enemies in the game who can drop potions randomly, as near as I can tell. They don't always).

Potions drop randomly from enemies, and there is an idol that turns them off.

TRT

2012-01-23 11:54:06 pm

did my first timed run of ng+ 1:13:21. a really bad run fell of platforms a bunch of times and i missed alot of skips, like 99% of em. oh well i have nowhere to go but up Tongue

Hex-

2012-01-29 03:05:48 am

O Captain! My Captain!

I got a 1:30 on the first time I attempted NG+, and that was a pretty shoddy run. It's not that hard, actually.

In my opinion, the best weapons are the Rifle, Bow, Machete and Pike, with Pike and Rifle my preference. The fire bellows are quite nice as well, for clearing out areas.

AVeryClassyCat

2012-05-25 09:50:36 pm

Wanted to run this ever since I bought it. Nice to see I have a frame of reference for a time to beat. Cheesy

You guys are awesome for finding these excellent skips!

Lawyer Dog

2012-05-30 08:24:32 pm

ClockworkSeal and I are going to start practicing Bastion runs again, and hopefully start doing races again.
Some splits from the best times of a practice run and our last race: http://pastebin.com/UgRZ46rd
Some various notes: http://pastebin.com/ygMYDChS

EasilyAmus3d

2012-06-05 07:41:42 am

More useful than it ought to be.

I've started doing some new game + runs for this and I've found a few little things. In Langston River, on the docks where you'd grab the core: you can clear that gap in one pike vault. I don't have a video personally yet, but here's a video that shows the gist of it (start at 8:50).

This guys does it in two pike vaults, but with good positioning and a good roll to get your momentum going, you can clear that gap with only one pike vault saving like 2-3ish seconds.

Also, at the Melting Pot: you can pike vault onto the barge as it's pulling in, saving like a little less than a second.

I want to start running this on the PC because the load times for the 360 are atrocious

tamik

2012-06-10 04:18:49 am

just got new game+ run 58:56 was really sloppy though and messed up a few tricks so didnt get first try

tamik

Edit history:

tamik: 2012-06-18 11:49:42 pm

tamik: 2012-06-18 11:49:18 pm

tamik: 2012-06-18 11:49:17 pm

tamik: 2012-06-18 11:49:16 pm

tamik: 2012-06-18 11:49:14 pm

tamik: 2012-06-18 11:49:05 pm

tamik: 2012-06-18 03:50:29 am

tamik: 2012-06-18 03:29:21 am

2012-06-10 11:36:37 pm

hey guys im streaming in terrible quality if you'd like to watch http://www.twitch.tv/sda_tamik#

EDIT: Just letting you guys know I have a recorded run at 55:21 (ng+) my goal is for 54:30 if I hit that then I will probably submit for verification and begin working on new game

EDIT2: hit new skips got 53:30 looking to get under 53 pretty sure thats about maxed (unless new tricks are found)