Bastion

Red_Buddha

Edit history:

Red_Buddha: 2012-06-21 10:48:02 pm

Red_Buddha: 2012-06-20 03:42:37 pm

2012-06-19 07:40:37 pm

I found a section in The Wild Outskirts that you can roll through which saves 3-5 seconds and in Zulten's Hollow you can roll through every one of the barriers without destroying them. Rolling through the last barrier also lets you roll all the way up to Zia.

Also I don't know if it's just me but using the mouse to move instead of wasd seems to be much faster.

If anyone is interested Tamik and I race ng+ almost every night. I stream every race at http://www.twitch.tv/redxxxbuddha . Anyone who would like to race ng+ is welcome to join us.

Lawyer Dog

Edit history:

Lawyer Dog: 2012-08-26 02:55:49 am

Lawyer Dog: 2012-07-10 11:12:03 pm

Lawyer Dog: 2012-06-25 12:15:53 pm

Lawyer Dog: 2012-06-23 09:23:33 pm

Lawyer Dog: 2012-06-23 09:13:00 pm

Lawyer Dog: 2012-06-23 09:06:51 pm

Lawyer Dog: 2012-06-23 07:36:54 pm

Lawyer Dog: 2012-06-23 12:52:35 am

Lawyer Dog: 2012-06-22 10:16:56 pm

2012-06-21 10:32:38 pm

Got around to recording a route for New Game Wharf District. I'm going to try to do videos of the routes for all the levels in a New Game. There are a bunch of new route changes Seal and I are trying out for the levels that would bring New Game possibly under 57 minutes on a good run. No new full run/race video of New Game yet unfortunately.
Currently the plan is to not buy any upgrades for weapons due to the large amount of time spent getting them and the minimal effects they have.
Werewhiskey is now equipped after the Hanging Gardens after Whale Ale is bought and equipped.
After Jawson Bog, the distillery is upgraded and Black Rye is equipped.
Pike Vault is probably best to buy after Point Lemaign, as grenades are helpful for the segments when you are off-screen and attempting to kill enemies.
After Burstone Quarry, Whale Ale is swapped out for Lifewine.
Hanging Gardens route. Edit: Uploaded a better route

Red_Buddha

2012-06-25 02:09:24 am

This is the current route I've been using for ng+.

EasilyAmus3d

Edit history:

EasilyAmus3d: 2012-06-25 07:16:53 am

2012-06-25 06:30:36 am

More useful than it ought to be.

That's a pretty damn good run, Buddha. Once I can get myself streaming, I'd like to hop those NG+ races you and Tamik are doing.

I've run across a few new tricks, too.
~~Jawson Bog~~Roathus Laggon (whoops): If you are having trouble hitting the last skip to get launched across the final barrier to grab the shard, you can align yourself at the lower left border of the barrier and roll almost straight up. You'll roll off the edge but the game will put you on the shard side of the barrier. Really more useful for an all idols run, since Queen Anne hurts.A lot. And missing that skip more than once can cause issues.

Point Lemaign: There are two "on rails" parts to this level. At the end of both of these parts, the screen locks into place, but the rest of the level will load if you continue on! The beautiful thing is, both segments after the on rails parts are essentially straight,so you can barrel a few screens ahead of where you would normally be, saving a lot of time if you can get good at blind movement. If you get incredibly lucky, you might be able to do the final barrier skip at PL blind.

I've finally got my PC able to run Bastion, so once I hit level 10 I'll be able to do some honest PC attempts.

Also, I've been becoming really, REALLY partial to using the mortar and pike. I still like the musket and pike, but for the bigger, elite monsters, the mortar is a better choice, IMHO.

That's a pretty damn good run, Buddha. Once I can get myself streaming, I'd like to hop those NG+ races you and Tamik are doing.

I've run across a few new tricks, too. 
[s]Jawson Bog[/s]Roathus Laggon (whoops): If you are having trouble hitting the last skip to get launched across the final barrier to grab the shard, you can align yourself at the lower left border of the barrier and roll almost straight up. You'll roll off the edge but the game will put you on the shard side of the barrier. Really more useful for an all idols run, since Queen Anne hurts.A lot. And missing that skip more than once can cause issues.

Point Lemaign: There are two "on rails" parts to this level. At the end of both of these parts, the screen locks into place, but the rest of the level will load if you continue on! The beautiful thing is, both segments after the on rails parts are essentially straight,so you can barrel a few screens ahead of where you would normally be, saving a lot of time if you can get good at blind movement. If you get incredibly lucky, you might be able to do the final barrier skip at PL blind.

I've finally got my PC able to run Bastion, so once I hit level 10 I'll be able to do some honest PC attempts.

Also, I've been becoming really, REALLY partial to using the mortar and pike. I still like the musket and pike, but for the bigger, elite monsters, the mortar is a better choice, IMHO.

Red_Buddha

Edit history:

Red_Buddha: 2012-06-25 07:10:02 am

Red_Buddha: 2012-06-25 07:03:44 am

Red_Buddha: 2012-06-25 07:03:43 am

2012-06-25 07:02:31 am

Its actually been awhile since we raced because he's been busy. I might start bugging him about it though.

You mean Roathus Lagoon right? I'll have to try that sometime because I miss the skip about 25% of the time.

I've try doing that on Point Lemaign and I rarely make three or four rolls before falling off. I use the mouse for movement so that could be the issue.

Once you're able to I'd be happy to race.

I thought about using the mortar but I couldn't really find a place where it was useful. In new game + most enemies die in one or two hits.

EasilyAmus3d

2012-06-25 07:22:20 am

More useful than it ought to be.

Yeah, I definitely think the mouse is hindering you there on that Point Lemaign trick. With WASD or a controller you can make adjustments to the direction you're moving to help keep yourself on the rails. With the mouse you just gotta have faith you're pointed the right way and start rolling.

Also, I'm digging the mortar because I can more consistently take down the large enemies with one hit. Plus, one werewhiskey boosted mortar shot to Queen Anne will trigger the skyway opening.

Red_Buddha

2012-06-25 07:25:28 am

The only reason I use the mouse is that it's faster than WASD and it's easier to control (at least for me).

Lawyer Dog

Edit history:

Lawyer Dog: 2012-07-11 03:45:42 pm

Lawyer Dog: 2012-07-11 03:33:37 pm

Lawyer Dog: 2012-07-11 03:32:31 pm

Lawyer Dog: 2012-07-10 11:10:21 pm

Lawyer Dog: 2012-07-10 12:37:30 pm

Lawyer Dog: 2012-07-10 12:36:19 pm

Lawyer Dog: 2012-07-10 12:16:34 pm

2012-07-10 07:32:05 am

Most of my recent Bastion playing has just been route planning, but a full practice run of New Game was about 57:22 from getting control to selecting an ending. I didn't actually have a timer going since it wasn't a serious run, but 57:22 is about what it was going by the recorded stream (which had serious frame dropping issues at the start and was not a very good run in general.)
An estimation at a good New Game run would be 55:xx, going by how much time I lost in some bad sections of the 57:22 (I lost like 35 seconds in Wharf District from messing up the gate skip a bunch, and I had some pretty bad runs of levels like Jawson Bog and Roathus Lagoon, which I am now far more consistent with.)

The New Game route has been changed around again, so the Sundown Path and Pyth Orchard level runs I posted a couple weeks ago are out of date already. If I have time I will try to get videos of the current New Game level routes uploaded. Equipment has been something we have been considering and testing a lot, and our current plan along with its reasoning is:

Wharf District: Pick up Fang Repeater after triggering the squirt spawn timer.
No time lost from picking it up, and significant time is saved immediately by using the repeater to kill the bartender

Wharf District: Pick up Whirlwind.
It costs very minimal time to pick up, and helps a lot in a few boss fights.

Wharf District Distillery: Equip Squirt Cider.
10 HP is a very significant amount of HP in Bastion, and the only other option is Dreadrum, which doesn't save any time with current level routes.

After Melting Pot: Build Distillery as the third building and equip Werewhiskey as your second spirit.
The current route should have level 2 no matter what by this point, and Werewhiskey does not help on any early levels so getting it later doesn't matter. If a route change made it so the Distillery was visited at a time other than the two times when building/upgrading it, building it third would cut down on walking time. Whale Ale takes too long to buy to make the time it saves elsewhere worthwhile.

Cinderbrick Fort: Pick up Scrap Musket.
Scrap Musket costs little time to pick up, has great damage, and can clear paths. It pays for itself easily just in time saved in Cinderbrick Fort from using it. Cinderbrick Fort is now done before Pyth Orchard due to Whale Ale being cut from the route, because the Scrap Musket is required for a quick kill on Pyth if you do not have Whale Ale, and a non-upgraded hammer can only destroy the fences in Pyth every other roll swing, so the second fence blocking your path is instead cleared with the Scrap Musket now to save a small amount of time. Unless sometime insane happens with the route, Scrap Musket is a must have.

After Jawson Bog: Upgrade the Distillery and equip Black Rye, Werewhiskey, and Lifewine.
Black Rye helps for pike vaulting in Burstone Quarry and makes the battering ram segment at the end faster. Lifewine makes killing bosses with Werewhiskey a lot safer. Lifewine costs a little bit of time when you intentionally die after Burstone Quarry, but it can save a lot more than it loses there. Changing spirits more than just the twice is pretty costly in time and I don't think it can be made up by not equipping lifewine until after Burstone Quarry or anything along those lines.

After Mount Zand: Buy Pike Vault from Lost and Found.

I don't think any control scheme is significantly faster than another, just using what you are comfortable with would be best. ClockworkSeal and I both use WASD but there are some specific skips that are easier with a more 360 degrees movement scheme, and some that are easier with WASD. Personally I find the very limited directions of the WASD movement to be helpful in getting consistent at doing skips, since there is generally a very specific way to execute it with WASD (The exception is the gate skip by the firepit in Prosper Bluff, which requires some feathering of the directions to do and is very finicky.)

On Roathus Lagoon if you have issues with doing the Queen Anne launch over the barrier there is a safe strategy you can use of rolling into the lower right side of the barrier. With WASD, you do 6 down+right rolls and then 1-2 down rolls to slip through the barrier. It's extremely safe and reliable with WASD, and even messing it up significantly won't lose much time, but it is almost 2 seconds slower than doing the Queen Anne launch perfectly. I was able to actually once get through the barrier with only two down+right rolls positioned perfectly, so maybe with mouse control or a gamepad (or maybe pike vault?) you could get it to be almost the same time as doing the launch. This wouldn't really apply to a polished run, but if you miss the launch twice in a race or something you should give up and go for slipping through the rocks, since that is when Queen Anne would start targeting the Lunkhead.

EDIT: Got about 0:56:18 in a streamed practice run of New Game. Not a serious run, and there were a bunch of silly mistakes including building the Distillery at the wrong time, but it was an okay run overall.
http://www.twitch.tv/lawyerdog/b/324508544

Most of my recent Bastion playing has just been route planning, but a full practice run of New Game was about 57:22 from getting control to selecting an ending. I didn't actually have a timer going since it wasn't a serious run, but 57:22 is about what it was going by the recorded stream (which had serious frame dropping issues at the start and was not a very good run in general.)
An estimation at a good New Game run would be 55:xx, going by how much time I lost in some bad sections of the 57:22 (I lost like 35 seconds in Wharf District from messing up the gate skip a bunch, and I had some pretty bad runs of levels like Jawson Bog and Roathus Lagoon, which I am now far more consistent with.)

The New Game route has been changed around again, so the Sundown Path and Pyth Orchard level runs I posted a couple weeks ago are out of date already. If I have time I will try to get videos of the current New Game level routes uploaded. Equipment has been something we have been considering and testing a lot, and our current plan along with its reasoning is:

Wharf District: Pick up Fang Repeater after triggering the squirt spawn timer.
No time lost from picking it up, and significant time is saved immediately by using the repeater to kill the bartender

Wharf District: Pick up Whirlwind.
It costs very minimal time to pick up, and helps a lot in a few boss fights.

Wharf District Distillery: Equip Squirt Cider.
10 HP is a very significant amount of HP in Bastion, and the only other option is Dreadrum, which doesn't save any time with current level routes.

After Melting Pot: Build Distillery as the third building and equip Werewhiskey as your second spirit.
The current route should have level 2 no matter what by this point, and Werewhiskey does not help on any early levels so getting it later doesn't matter. If a route change made it so the Distillery was visited at a time other than the two times when building/upgrading it, building it third would cut down on walking time. Whale Ale takes too long to buy to make the time it saves elsewhere worthwhile.

Cinderbrick Fort: Pick up Scrap Musket.
Scrap Musket costs little time to pick up, has great damage, and can clear paths. It pays for itself easily just in time saved in Cinderbrick Fort from using it. Cinderbrick Fort is now done before Pyth Orchard due to Whale Ale being cut from the route, because the Scrap Musket is required for a quick kill on Pyth if you do not have Whale Ale, and a non-upgraded hammer can only destroy the fences in Pyth every other roll swing, so the second fence blocking your path is instead cleared with the Scrap Musket now to save a small amount of time. Unless sometime insane happens with the route, Scrap Musket is a must have.

After Jawson Bog: Upgrade the Distillery and equip Black Rye, Werewhiskey, and Lifewine.
Black Rye helps for pike vaulting in Burstone Quarry and makes the battering ram segment at the end faster. Lifewine makes killing bosses with Werewhiskey a lot safer. Lifewine costs a little bit of time when you intentionally die after Burstone Quarry, but it can save a lot more than it loses there. Changing spirits more than just the twice is pretty costly in time and I don't think it can be made up by not equipping lifewine until after Burstone Quarry or anything along those lines.

After Mount Zand: Buy Pike Vault from Lost and Found.

I don't think any control scheme is significantly faster than another, just using what you are comfortable with would be best. ClockworkSeal and I both use WASD but there are some specific skips that are easier with a more 360 degrees movement scheme, and some that are easier with WASD. Personally I find the very limited directions of the WASD movement to be helpful in getting consistent at doing skips, since there is generally a very specific way to execute it with WASD (The exception is the gate skip by the firepit in Prosper Bluff, which requires some feathering of the directions to do and is very finicky.)

On Roathus Lagoon if you have issues with doing the Queen Anne launch over the barrier there is a safe strategy you can use of rolling into the lower right side of the barrier. With WASD, you do 6 down+right rolls and then 1-2 down rolls to slip through the barrier. It's extremely safe and reliable with WASD, and even messing it up significantly won't lose much time, but it is almost 2 seconds slower than doing the Queen Anne launch perfectly. I was able to actually once get through the barrier with only two down+right rolls positioned perfectly, so maybe with mouse control or a gamepad (or maybe pike vault?) you could get it to be almost the same time as doing the launch. This wouldn't really apply to a polished run, but if you miss the launch twice in a race or something you should give up and go for slipping through the rocks, since that is when Queen Anne would start targeting the Lunkhead.

EDIT: Got about 0:56:18 in a streamed practice run of New Game. Not a serious run, and there were a bunch of silly mistakes including building the Distillery at the wrong time, but it was an okay run overall.
http://www.twitch.tv/lawyerdog/b/324508544

EasilyAmus3d

2012-07-11 06:36:20 pm

More useful than it ought to be.

Laywerdog: Have you tried skipping the final barrier in Roathus Lagoon by falling off the left side of the barrier? There's a small gap there that will plop you out shard-side after the fall. If hit consistently, it's maybe a second slower than the usual Queen Anne skip, and easier than trying to roll through the barrier, I think.

And when it comes down to control schemes, only the gamepad/controller has a disadvantage, and that's in the extra second or two you need to set up weapons and spirits.

Also: new little skip for you all! Check the picture below for reference. In the Hanging Gardens, there's a small gap (circled in red in the image below) right after you pass Nordy the Bird-Boy on the left side of the small fork in the path. It's not in the picture, but there's usually some sort of covered-wagon thing there right above the red circle. As long as the wagon is there, you can just roll across that gap saving a few seconds.

Lawyer Dog

Edit history:

Lawyer Dog: 2012-07-23 01:27:30 pm

Lawyer Dog: 2012-07-23 01:26:57 pm

Lawyer Dog: 2012-07-19 03:47:48 pm

Lawyer Dog: 2012-07-16 01:59:41 pm

Lawyer Dog: 2012-07-16 01:10:31 pm

Lawyer Dog: 2012-07-16 01:09:28 pm

Lawyer Dog: 2012-07-16 01:06:57 pm

Lawyer Dog: 2012-07-16 01:02:00 pm

Lawyer Dog: 2012-07-15 11:04:12 am

Lawyer Dog: 2012-07-15 10:59:59 am

Lawyer Dog: 2012-07-11 10:44:44 pm

Lawyer Dog: 2012-07-11 10:38:55 pm

2012-07-11 10:11:35 pm

Quote from EasilyAmus3d:

Laywerdog: Have you tried skipping the final barrier in Roathus Lagoon by falling off the left side of the barrier? There's a small gap there that will plop you out shard-side after the fall. If hit consistently, it's maybe a second slower than the usual Queen Anne skip, and easier than trying to roll through the barrier, I think.

And when it comes down to control schemes, only the gamepad/controller has a disadvantage, and that's in the extra second or two you need to set up weapons and spirits.

Also: new little skip for you all! Check the picture below for reference. In the Hanging Gardens, there's a small gap (circled in red in the image below) right after you pass Nordy the Bird-Boy on the left side of the small fork in the path. It's not in the picture, but there's usually some sort of covered-wagon thing there right above the red circle. As long as the wagon is there, you can just roll across that gap saving a few seconds.

http://i.imgur.com/L8E6J.jpg

Falling off the left side of the barrier perfectly seems to be almost as fast as getting a perfect launch, but I can only get it like 10% of the time. If you can do it consistently it would be a better alternative to the launch than doing the right side. It seems to be around 0.5 seconds slower than a perfect launch rather than the 1.5 seconds slower that slipping through the rocks on the right is.

The Hanging Gardens skip saves a good second or so and is very consistent, good find!

Edit: New Cinderbrick Fort skip found for New Game, the last gate can be skipped with some rolls and a fall, saving about 30 seconds over a good boss fight. The gate's collision detection seems to consist of two seperate walls, and rolling in from the right side you can get inbetween them. Rolling up and to the left from between those two walls will make it so you fall off and then land on the other side of the second wall.

Edit 2: The Sundown Path has two potential new skips but they are pretty inconsistent. If you launch off the first skyway perfectly and get two rolls in mid-air you can skip over one of the islands completely and possibly cut off a few seconds, but I can only get it about 5% of the time or something. The last gate can be skipped by rolling through the left side of it, but it's very inconsistent as well, and doing it perfectly only saves about a half second over doing a vertical launch from the skyway nearby to get over it.
Both skips end up costing a significant amount of time if failed, so I don't think they're worth doing unless a consistent method is found.

Edit 3: New Game 0:55:30 http://www.twitch.tv/lawyerdog/b/325130024
I went to The Sundown Path first by accident which cost a little bit of time by not being able to kill the boss at the end quickly, and I had a bad Jawson Bog, Burrstone Quarry, and Tazal Terminals. I actually did manage to do the skip in Sundown Path where you can skip one of the first skyways, though.

Edit 4: The Sundown Path skyway skip can be made consistent if you do an up+left roll and then launch from the top left of the skyway. Where you activate the skyway from has an impact on where it launches you, and going from the top left gives you the tiny bit more distance you need to get the skip.
Also a small Lifewine note: If an attack deals a very small amount of damage to you, like a flamethrower turret, it will not activate lifewine, and you will just die instead.

[quote="EasilyAmus3d"]Laywerdog: Have you tried skipping the final barrier in Roathus Lagoon by falling off the left side of the barrier? There's a small gap there that will plop you out shard-side after the fall. If hit consistently, it's maybe a second slower than the usual Queen Anne skip, and easier than trying to roll through the barrier, I think.

And when it comes down to control schemes, only the gamepad/controller has a disadvantage, and that's in the extra second or two you need to set up weapons and spirits.

Also: new little skip for you all! Check the picture below for reference. In the Hanging Gardens, there's a small gap (circled in red in the image below) right after you pass Nordy the Bird-Boy on the left side of the small fork in the path. It's not in the picture, but there's usually some sort of covered-wagon thing there right above the red circle. As long as the wagon is there, you can just roll across that gap saving a few seconds.

http://i.imgur.com/L8E6J.jpg[/quote]
Falling off the left side of the barrier perfectly seems to be almost as fast as getting a perfect launch, but I can only get it like 10% of the time. If you can do it consistently it would be a better alternative to the launch than doing the right side. It seems to be around 0.5 seconds slower than a perfect launch rather than the 1.5 seconds slower that slipping through the rocks on the right is.

The Hanging Gardens skip saves a good second or so and is very consistent, good find!

Edit: New Cinderbrick Fort skip found for New Game, the last gate can be skipped with some rolls and a fall, saving about 30 seconds over a good boss fight. The gate's collision detection seems to consist of two seperate walls, and rolling in from the right side you can get inbetween them. Rolling up and to the left from between those two walls will make it so you fall off and then land on the other side of the second wall.

Edit 2: The Sundown Path has two potential new skips but they are pretty inconsistent. If you launch off the first skyway perfectly and get two rolls in mid-air you can skip over one of the islands completely and possibly cut off a few seconds, but I can only get it about 5% of the time or something. The last gate can be skipped by rolling through the left side of it, but it's very inconsistent as well, and doing it perfectly only saves about a half second over doing a vertical launch from the skyway nearby to get over it.
Both skips end up costing a significant amount of time if failed, so I don't think they're worth doing unless a consistent method is found.

Edit 3: New Game 0:55:30 http://www.twitch.tv/lawyerdog/b/325130024
I went to The Sundown Path first by accident which cost a little bit of time by not being able to kill the boss at the end quickly, and I had a bad Jawson Bog, Burrstone Quarry, and Tazal Terminals. I actually did manage to do the skip in Sundown Path where you can skip one of the first skyways, though.

Edit 4: The Sundown Path skyway skip can be made consistent if you do an up+left roll and then launch from the top left of the skyway. Where you activate the skyway from has an impact on where it launches you, and going from the top left gives you the tiny bit more distance you need to get the skip.
Also a small Lifewine note: If an attack deals a very small amount of damage to you, like a flamethrower turret, it will not activate lifewine, and you will just die instead.

Lawyer Dog

Edit history:

Lawyer Dog: 2012-08-06 12:29:47 pm

2012-07-26 05:31:48 pm

New Game 0:55:08 http://www.twitch.tv/lawyerdog/b/326354065
Tons of mistakes pushing it past 55 minutes, especially on Prosper Bluff, Jawson Bog and Tazal Terminals. Prosper Bluff alone was something like 16 seconds slower than a perfect run through it.

ClockworkSeal and I are going to be racing Bastion (New Game) on Saturday at about 3:00pm EST for Sea Wizards. http://sharkstream.tumblr.com/post/27314965303/shark-stream-2012-sea-wizards-when-july-27-30th.

Edit: 0:55:54 at Sea Wizards, would be about 0:55:25 if I didn't save Zulf. Unfortunately Twitch was acting up or something and the stream got pretty laggy. http://www.twitch.tv/seawizard__/b/326570679
Eventually I'll be syncing all the marathon videos and be able to post Seal's half of the race, but that may take a while.

Sebastiaaaaan

Edit history:

Sebastiaaaaan: 2012-08-06 12:55:03 pm

2012-08-06 12:50:18 pm

Very nice! Keep it up, I'll check out your stream

Red_Buddha

Edit history:

Red_Buddha: 2012-08-13 07:33:32 pm

2012-08-09 11:05:04 pm

Quote from Lawyer Dog:

On Roathus Lagoon if you have issues with doing the Queen Anne launch over the barrier there is a safe strategy you can use of rolling into the lower right side of the barrier. With WASD, you do 6 down+right rolls and then 1-2 down rolls to slip through the barrier. It's extremely safe and reliable with WASD, and even messing it up significantly won't lose much time, but it is almost 2 seconds slower than doing the Queen Anne launch perfectly. I was able to actually once get through the barrier with only two down+right rolls positioned perfectly, so maybe with mouse control or a gamepad (or maybe pike vault?) you could get it to be almost the same time as doing the launch. This wouldn't really apply to a polished run, but if you miss the launch twice in a race or something you should give up and go for slipping through the rocks, since that is when Queen Anne would start targeting the Lunkhead.

I seem to get through in 2-3 rolls on the right side. the left side is also possible to get through with a mouse in about 3 rolls. I couldn't find a way through with WASD though. I still need to timewhether or not rolling through the left side is faster then the launch but it is certainly more reliable.

Edit: Just did my first run of new game ended with 55:34. Had 2-3 minutes of mistakes in it from not knowing the route and forgetting the pike which caused me to have to run back for it. Also if you guys ever want to race I'm able to whenever.

[quote="Lawyer Dog"]On Roathus Lagoon if you have issues with doing the Queen Anne launch over the barrier there is a safe strategy you can use of rolling into the lower right side of the barrier. With WASD, you do 6 down+right rolls and then 1-2 down rolls to slip through the barrier. It's extremely safe and reliable with WASD, and even messing it up significantly won't lose much time, but it is almost 2 seconds slower than doing the Queen Anne launch perfectly. I was able to actually once get through the barrier with only two down+right rolls positioned perfectly, so maybe with mouse control or a gamepad (or maybe pike vault?) you could get it to be almost the same time as doing the launch. This wouldn't really apply to a polished run, but if you miss the launch twice in a race or something you should give up and go for slipping through the rocks, since that is when Queen Anne would start targeting the Lunkhead.[/quote]

I seem to get through in 2-3 rolls on the right side. the left side is also possible to get through with a mouse in about 3 rolls. I couldn't find a way through with WASD though. I still need to timewhether or not rolling through the left side is faster then the launch but it is certainly more reliable.

Edit: Just did my first run of new game ended with 55:34. Had 2-3 minutes of mistakes in it from not knowing the route and forgetting the pike which caused me to have to run back for it.  Also if you guys ever want to race I'm able to whenever.

Lawyer Dog

Edit history:

Lawyer Dog: 2012-08-27 01:46:34 am

Lawyer Dog: 2012-08-26 09:20:41 pm

Lawyer Dog: 2012-08-26 09:18:07 pm

Lawyer Dog: 2012-08-26 09:14:12 pm

Lawyer Dog: 2012-08-26 03:10:10 am

Lawyer Dog: 2012-08-26 02:54:54 am

2012-08-25 11:29:32 pm

Got a New Game time of 54:43. Didn't stream it because I was recording it at a high quality, but I will upload it soon. I lost a lot of time in some really dumb ways, but I have no 720p uploads of a Bastion run yet, and for the most part it was decent.
Video:
Splits: http://i.imgur.com/BAGED.png
I believe the only new tricks I use in this run are intentionally boosting off of stabweeds, and launching from a Gasfella's attack onto the barge at the end of the Melting Pot. Also, something to note for the Melting Pot is that killing enemies in it can save about 6 seconds over never killing an enemy, so it actually matters somewhat what you do in the Melting Pot.

A total of 69 seconds lost from major things that I could see, and more optimized movement everywhere could save more time. About 53:30 seems possible. This doesn't take into account loading times, though. Once I get a better run I will have to time what my load times are to find out the actual time.

EDIT: Got 53:55 now, with an estimated 75 seconds or so lost from major mistakes, but a lot better playing overall. Roathus Lagoon was the major problem spot, and it was so bad I am going to try to route it better now to prevent that happening again. Streaming just kills my framerate too much to stream serious runs, unfortunately.

Video:
Splits: http://i.imgur.com/IYcp6.png

Got a New Game time of 54:43. Didn't stream it because I was recording it at a high quality, but I will upload it soon. I lost a lot of time in some really dumb ways, but I have no 720p uploads of a Bastion run yet, and for the most part it was decent.
Video: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Mqvd7D885Ic
Splits: http://i.imgur.com/BAGED.png
I believe the only new tricks I use in this run are intentionally boosting off of stabweeds, and launching from a Gasfella's attack onto the barge at the end of the Melting Pot. Also, something to note for the Melting Pot is that killing enemies in it can save about 6 seconds over never killing an enemy, so it actually matters somewhat what you do in the Melting Pot.

A total of 69 seconds lost from major things that I could see, and more optimized movement everywhere could save more time. About 53:30 seems possible. This doesn't take into account loading times, though. Once I get a better run I will have to time what my load times are to find out the actual time.

EDIT: Got 53:55 now, with an estimated 75 seconds or so lost from major mistakes, but a lot better playing overall. Roathus Lagoon was the major problem spot, and it was so bad I am going to try to route it better now to prevent that happening again. Streaming just kills my framerate too much to stream serious runs, unfortunately.

Video: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ixQMv-6rwiU
Splits: http://i.imgur.com/IYcp6.png

Red_Buddha

2012-08-26 09:50:11 pm

just got a 55:08 really poor play in just about every level. Probably going to start recording runs now. If you want I could record some of the levels that I have different routes on.

Lawyer Dog

2012-08-26 10:12:22 pm

I would definitely be interested in seeing videos of different routes, and just videos of runs in general.

OBJ

2012-08-29 05:11:20 am

Hi everyone, I'm new here. My name's OBJ and I've been watching a lot of speedrunning streams lately, mostly OoT and SM64 and I figured I'd try my hand at speedrunning. Bastion really caught my eye so I've decided to make my speedrunning debut with it. I'm thinking about doing PC NG+ for now, I might try NG later though. I'm working on setting up for streaming my attempts, you can find them at http://www.twitch.tv/ohbeejay. I'm also working on the most efficient path through the jumping puzzle in the Tazal Terminals. I'll post that whenever I get it finished. I'll also get my weapon, upgrade and tonic loadout figured out in the next day or so and post that as well as my PB when I finish a decent run. If you have steam you can add me and message me at http://steamcommunity.com/id/crazyjoe686/. That's all for now!

Red_Buddha

2012-08-29 09:41:35 pm

For NG+ brusher's pike is pretty much required so you can pike vault and scrap musket is easily the best option as a secondary weapon for its damage and clearing power. I have both using only the left side upgrades because the right side for both of them is pretty much useless. Tonics are a little different though some are necessary some are useless and some are just preference. I personally use squirt cider, dreadrum, bastion bourbon, werewhiskey, black rye, bull brandy, stabsinthe, graver gimlet, doomshine, and cham-pain. I don't have steam but if you have any questions you can post them here and I'll be glad to answer them as best as I can.

OBJ

Edit history:

OBJ: 2012-08-30 05:22:49 am

2012-08-30 05:22:19 am

Alright, I finished my first run with a time of 1:06:26. Here's the VOD http://www.twitch.tv/ohbeejay/b/330453680. Not too bad for my first attempt. I ran with Sccrap Musket and Calamity Cannon for knockback and damage. But for going through Prosper Bluff with all the skippable gates, it's probably much better to switch to Pike Vault. I like the Musket for knocking enemies off to kill them quicker (especially the boss lunkhead in Burstone Quarry).

I finished my solution to the jumping puzzle at Tazal Terminals. Not sure if this is useful to anyone but I uploaded it here http://imgur.com/a/6m3Vq#0.

For tonics, I went with Squirt Cider, Bastion Bourbon, Wherewhiskey, Black Rye, Bull Brandy, Stabsinthe, Lifewine, Graver Gimlet, Doom Shine and Cham-Pain. Fairly similar. I couldn't decide if I wanted Falling Malt, but I probably shouldn't be falling so much and I never used all of my health kits.

As far as upgrades, I agree on the pike, all left side is the way to go. However I disagree for the musket, I prefer the greater spread over the longer range for clearing debris and crowds. I can't decide between knockback and damage, I'll have to do more experimentation to see how it affects the run. But I definitely think the third musket upgrade should be the faster reload speed. Long range damage doesn't concern me as much as firing quickly, but I guess that's personal preference. I picked left on the last upgrade as well.

For now, I just need to get more runs in and sure up my routes. I made a couple of wrong turns towards the middle and fell off about 50 times too many. Also I need to improve my stream quality, I might just get fraps for serious runs and record at a better resolution.

I do have a question about timing though. I start from the moment I click New Game+ and end when I choose what ending. Should it start as soon as I can move my character or when I click start? Thanks for helping and hopefully I can provide some decent competition in a week or so.

Alright, I finished my first run with a time of 1:06:26.  Here's the VOD [url]http://www.twitch.tv/ohbeejay/b/330453680[/url].  Not too bad for my first attempt.  I ran with Sccrap Musket and Calamity Cannon for knockback and damage.  But for going through Prosper Bluff with all the skippable gates, it's probably much better to switch to Pike Vault.  I like the Musket for knocking enemies off to kill them quicker (especially the boss lunkhead in Burstone Quarry).

I finished my solution to the jumping puzzle at Tazal Terminals.  Not sure if this is useful to anyone but I uploaded it here [url]http://imgur.com/a/6m3Vq#0[/url].

For tonics, I went with Squirt Cider, Bastion Bourbon, Wherewhiskey, Black Rye, Bull Brandy, Stabsinthe, Lifewine, Graver Gimlet, Doom Shine and Cham-Pain.  Fairly similar.  I couldn't decide if I wanted Falling Malt, but I probably shouldn't be falling so much and I never used all of my health kits.

As far as upgrades, I agree on the pike, all left side is the way to go.  However I disagree for the musket, I prefer the greater spread over the longer range for clearing debris and crowds. I can't decide between knockback and damage, I'll have to do more experimentation to see how it affects the run.  But I definitely think the third musket upgrade should be the faster reload speed.  Long range damage doesn't concern me as much as firing quickly, but I guess that's personal preference.  I picked left on the last upgrade as well.

For now, I just need to get more runs in and sure up my routes.  I made a couple of wrong turns towards the middle and fell off about 50 times too many.  Also I need to improve my stream quality, I might just get fraps for serious runs and record at a better resolution.

I do have a question about timing though.  I start from the moment I click New Game+ and end when I choose what ending.  Should it start as soon as I can move my character or when I click start?  Thanks for helping and hopefully I can provide some decent competition in a week or so.

Red_Buddha

Edit history:

Red_Buddha: 2012-08-30 03:31:47 pm

Red_Buddha: 2012-08-30 03:25:30 pm

Red_Buddha: 2012-08-30 02:29:13 pm

Red_Buddha: 2012-08-30 02:29:08 pm

Red_Buddha: 2012-08-30 02:29:06 pm

Red_Buddha: 2012-08-30 02:24:37 pm

Red_Buddha: 2012-08-30 02:24:34 pm

2012-08-30 11:35:21 am

I'm honestly not sure on timing I have been starting mine right when the kid stands up. I think it's something like a 22 second difference if you start when you click NG+ though.

I'm not sure I understand your pics of the jumping section. Are the green lines showing what is possible and the others are showing what isn't?

I'll have to test out the musket more I never really looked into the seed upgrade so I'll have to see how much of a difference it makes. Damage should be the better option especially if you aren't getting the increased long range damage.

edit: just played around with the musket some and the reload speed increase doesn't seem to me like it makes much of a difference. It's probably just a preference thing because it really doesn't matter much either way.

Also Lawyer Dog I can't upload anything until I get back home on Monday. I'm not going to be uploading full routes for most of them because the difference is really only one or two tricks. BTW the levels I'll be uploading are sundown, prosper, cinderbrick and maybe roathus.

edit2: Looks like I'll be uploading some NG+ stuff as well. I found major skips for hanging gardens and prosper bluff. I found a faster ways to do sundown. Also I have a few tricks to upload for cinderbrick for NG+ as well.

I'm honestly not sure on timing I have been starting mine right when the kid stands up. I think it's something like a 22 second difference if you start when you click NG+ though.

I'm not sure I understand your pics of the jumping section. Are the green lines showing what is possible and the others are showing what isn't?

I'll have to test out the musket more I never really looked into the seed upgrade so I'll have to see how much of a difference it makes. Damage should be the better option especially if you aren't getting the increased long range damage.

edit: just played around with the musket some and the reload speed increase doesn't seem to me like it makes much of a difference. It's probably just a preference thing because it really doesn't matter much either way.

Also Lawyer Dog I can't upload anything until I get back home on Monday. I'm not going to be uploading full routes for most of them because the difference is really only one or two tricks. BTW the levels I'll be uploading are sundown, prosper, cinderbrick and maybe roathus.

edit2: Looks like I'll be uploading some NG+ stuff as well. I found major skips for hanging gardens and prosper bluff. I found a faster ways to do sundown. Also I have a few tricks to upload for cinderbrick for NG+ as well.

OBJ

Edit history:

OBJ: 2012-08-31 04:39:06 am

2012-08-31 02:48:12 am

There's a little description on the sidebar. The green lines represent jumps that are impossible to screw up and likely the intended route. The purple lines are jumps that are possible but more difficult. Essentially a higher risk vs reward jump. It probably doesn't save too much time but I wanted to know the optimal route since it's a confusing puzzle. I found the fewest jumps to be the following path: 1>4>7>10>13>15>18>20>23>26>28>31>35>38>42>46>48>50>51>52>53>54>56>58 using my labels. However I had trouble with the 23-26 jump and the 42-46 jump in a run.

I suspect you're right on the damage, I have to do a few more runs to see whether I use straight damage or knock-back more. I didn't have any trouble knocking off the big lunkhead in the Quarry with the damage upgrades so I guess it's not worth it. I find the faster reload time more useful since I'm most often shooting things point blank to get them out of my way.

I'll do a run tonight and post the results.

EDIT: Oh man. I got 50 minutes into my run was ahead by about a minute (after gaining a minute at the Sundown Path and losing 2 at Cinderbrick Fort) and I managed to exit my game. I have to run windowed to get Xsplit to pick up the window since you can't stream games without a license. Anyways, I still learned a lot. I need to have a lot of practice with the pike vault and I need to figure out what gates I can skip and how. I should be able to get it under an hour barring any unforeseen idiocy on my part.

There's a little description on the sidebar.  The green lines represent jumps that are impossible to screw up and likely the intended route.  The purple lines are jumps that are possible but more difficult.  Essentially a higher risk vs reward jump.  It probably doesn't save too much time but I wanted to know the optimal route since it's a confusing puzzle.  I found the fewest jumps to be the following path: 1>4>7>10>13>15>18>20>23>26>28>31>35>38>42>46>48>50>51>52>53>54>56>58 using my labels. However I had trouble with the 23-26 jump and the 42-46 jump in a run.

I suspect you're right on the damage, I have to do a few more runs to see whether I use straight damage or knock-back more.  I didn't have any trouble knocking off the big lunkhead in the Quarry with the damage upgrades so I guess it's not worth it.  I find the faster reload time more useful since I'm most often shooting things point blank to get them out of my way.

I'll do a run tonight and post the results.

EDIT: Oh man.  I got 50 minutes into my run was ahead by about a minute (after gaining a minute at the Sundown Path and losing 2 at Cinderbrick Fort) and I managed to exit my game.  I have to run windowed to get Xsplit to pick up the window since you can't stream games without a license.  Anyways, I still learned a lot.  I need to have a lot of practice with the pike vault and I need to figure out what gates I can skip and how.  I should be able to get it under an hour barring any unforeseen idiocy on my part.

ais523

Edit history:

ais523: 2012-08-31 03:34:02 pm

2012-08-31 03:33:14 pm

I've been wondering about the low% category for this.

Is newgame possible with just the Cael Hammer and Bullhead Shield? (It seems impossible to skip the hammer as you don't get the roll until you pick it up, and with neither roll nor weapon there's no way past the debris in front of you and no way to glitch past it either. And I don't think the game lets you continue without the Shield, although I'm less sure on that.) There are a couple of other items I suspect are mandatory (Something Heavy, Hidebound Journal), but perhaps they can be skipped too. (Fractured Monument is definitely not necessary; you have to show it to Zulf to continue at one point, but you can do so even if it isn't in your inventory.)

The other items that would seem to be mandatory are Grenade (needed to open a blocking gate), Army Carbine (needed to remove a calamity rock wall), and some form of ranged damage (to destroy conductors to open calamity rock walls). However, I think all of those can be skipped via sequence breaks that have already been shown. (Not sure if it's doable with just the Cael Hammer, though.) Also, there are a few places where enemies that have to be destroyed to move on are on the other side of chasms; several of those are within the Hammer's deceptively long range, but we'd need to check to see if it ever happens with enemies that aren't.

I've been wondering about the low% category for this.

Is newgame possible with [i]just[/i] the Cael Hammer and Bullhead Shield? (It seems impossible to skip the hammer as you don't get the roll until you pick it up, and with neither roll nor weapon there's no way past the debris in front of you and no way to glitch past it either. And I don't think the game lets you continue without the Shield, although I'm less sure on that.) There are a couple of other items I suspect are mandatory (Something Heavy, Hidebound Journal), but perhaps they can be skipped too. (Fractured Monument is definitely not necessary; you have to show it to Zulf to continue at one point, but you can do so even if it isn't in your inventory.)

The other items that would seem to be mandatory are Grenade (needed to open a blocking gate), Army Carbine (needed to remove a calamity rock wall), and some form of ranged damage (to destroy conductors to open calamity rock walls). However, I think all of those can be skipped via sequence breaks that have already been shown. (Not sure if it's doable with just the Cael Hammer, though.) Also, there are a few places where enemies that have to be destroyed to move on are on the other side of chasms; several of those are within the Hammer's deceptively long range, but we'd need to check to see if it ever happens with enemies that aren't.

Caelint

2012-08-31 05:39:54 pm

All of my runs long ago were done using the hammer and shield only (and the pike, can't remember if it can be skipped or not, or just needed something to the other weapon slot, didn't really use it anyway, only to clear bushes if I remember correctly). The only other thing I used were trip mines, but only for the extra burst damage, so the hammer can easily replace that. Although I upgraded the hammer and used the power attack a lot in the later parts, the game can be finished without it. Everything else in the game can be skipped, as the videos show them in the first pages.

I remember doing a no upgrade hammer only run for test purposes and the first really tough fight without the upgrades was when you have to fight yourself in the dream, I died there and didn't try to attempt it anymore, so I have no experience from the later parts. If you're thinking about doing low% be prepared for a challenge. I considered it myself not so long ago, as my runs were pretty close to a low% run anyway. My times were close to the 1 hour mark with hammer upgrades but with bad execution, so a low% run should be close to that as well.

All of my runs long ago were done using the hammer and shield only (and the pike, can't remember if it can be skipped or not, or just needed something to the other weapon slot, didn't really use it anyway, only to clear bushes if I remember correctly). The only other thing I used were trip mines, but only for the extra burst damage, so the hammer can easily replace that. Although I upgraded the hammer and used the power attack a lot in the later parts, the game can be finished without it. Everything else in the game can be skipped, as the videos show them in the first pages.

I remember doing a no upgrade hammer only run for test purposes and the first really tough fight without the upgrades was when you have to fight yourself in the dream, I died there and didn't try to attempt it anymore, so I have no experience from the later parts. If you're thinking about doing low% be prepared for a challenge. I considered it myself not so long ago, as my runs were pretty close to a low% run anyway. My times were close to the 1 hour mark with hammer upgrades but with bad execution, so a low% run should be close to that as well.

Lawyer Dog

2012-08-31 09:15:39 pm

The hammer and shield are the only items that don't have a known way to skip them. You can get close to breaking the barrier after the hammer with fall damage, but invisible walls will prevent it. You can roll off the level in the bar where you get the shield, but as far as I know nothing useful can come of this. You can die from it but you have infinite lives there.

It would even be possible to beat the majority of the game without actually swinging the hammer or using the shield, but it becomes very annoying in certain levels. The main issue I ran into messing around with low% was that if you ever get caught by the one enemy that locks you in place it would be a game over, because rolls cannot damage the barrier on you fast enough to destroy it. Another problem that comes up with not using the hammer/shield is some small enemies cannot be damaged at all by rolling, requiring you to fall onto them to kill them. This is especially bad right in the beginning because when you fall off the level by the fountain with the squirts you generally don't land where you fell off, so it is hard to actually hit the squirts with your falls. Queen Anne was quite annoying but I did manage to kill her with rolls eventually.

Low% using an unupgraded hammer and the shield would look basically the same as new game any% but with much slower boss fights and no pike vault skips.

The hammer and shield are the only items that don't have a known way to skip them. You can get close to breaking the barrier after the hammer with fall damage, but invisible walls will prevent it. You can roll off the level in the bar where you get the shield, but as far as I know nothing useful can come of this. You can die from it but you have infinite lives there.

It would even be possible to beat the majority of the game without actually swinging the hammer or using the shield, but it becomes very annoying in certain levels. The main issue I ran into messing around with low% was that if you ever get caught by the one enemy that locks you in place it would be a game over, because rolls cannot damage the barrier on you fast enough to destroy it. Another problem that comes up with not using the hammer/shield is some small enemies cannot be damaged at all by rolling, requiring you to fall onto them to kill them. This is especially bad right in the beginning because when you fall off the level by the fountain with the squirts you generally don't land where you fell off, so it is hard to actually hit the squirts with your falls. Queen Anne was quite annoying but I did manage to kill her with rolls eventually.

Low% using an unupgraded hammer and the shield would look basically the same as new game any% but with much slower boss fights and no pike vault skips.

ais523

2012-09-01 09:54:15 am

I think low% doesn't restrict the usage of anything you're forced to pick up, so you'd be allowed to use the hammer, the shield, and even the one compulsory hammer upgrade item (unless it's possible to not collect that). Not sure if upgrading the hammer is worth the time it takes in the Forge; perhaps it is. (And I assume nobody's counting the Battering Ram; that last level sucks so badly compared to the rest of the game I tend to forget it exists.)

How do you skip the Hidebound Journal? Or do you not count that?