Anyone ever consider a 7th Saga speed run?

2011-08-01 09:20:34 pm

Is PJ

Quote from FionordeQuester:

Well, alright then, I've just done a quick run through with Esuna, leveling her up to 11 and getting her all the way to Zellis. The only break I took was taken 27 minutes in (I had to leave to go somewhere), the rest was played from start to finish after I had gotten back. This is the time I got....

TIME: 1:16

That was the first time I had ever attempted this, and I died twice in the Earth Cave, so I think that with some better battle strategies (one of the times I died was out of carelesness), and some better luck (I got seriously unlucky at times), I think I can beat PJ's fastest time to Bonro with relative consistency (you had 1:06 on the clock on your fastest Lejes run, right?). The question is, will I be able to do the rest of the Present with the same kind of consistency? Who knows?

I honestly don't remember my time at Zellis. :/ Sorry. If I said it was 1:06 before, I'd believe that. It sounds about right. Your 1:16 is a very good time to that point regardless of how fast I did it before. Nice work! You can definitely cut that down to "my" time or below with a bit more practice. Smiley

Your last question is indeed the issue. Esuna does extremely well in the Earth Cave; she can heal with magic, Ice 1 is really strong on Undeads (eventually), and she can stay there for a long time because MP Catcher seems to hit Undeads pretty frequently. Like you, though, I am concerned about the rest of the present.

Melenam is a tough spot for me to level, as I mentioned. From 11-15 is always very rough. I rely heavily on B Protects, but even with those I fear that Esuna might not be strong enough to survive 2 Orcs or 2 B.Demons. Let me know what your experience is with that section. I know Lejes struggled a lot there (I suffered many deaths in my SS run here), and with Lux I just spammed B Power and B Protect because I had a lot of money from not buying Natr Sword or Scarf.

The rest of the present is a blur honestly, but I do remember struggling so much and being extremely mad. She gets killed by everything! Even with good strategy, if an enemy dodges at a critical moment you are dead. Esuna is always very vulnerable. Granted it's not much easier with Lejes, but I had the best memories with using him.

Quote:

But man, I have to say, that wasn't easy. Playing the game for that long can really wear on your mind after a while, so much so that I'm not sure Esuna is the right choice for a "no Tune Up glitch" run even if she does prove to be better than Lejes. I mean, she takes a lot more strategy, menu navigation, and item management, and since mistakes are most likely inevitable when you play for 11 hours straight, that's going to haunt whoever's running with her....

Haha, yea. That is definitely an issue. I learned that the less I focus on the game, the more tolerable that is. I've played this so much that I don't have to think at all about map navigation or what chests to open (except for M.Pison's cave sometimes). Same with enemy strats. I've fought so many battles I just kind of know what to do. That definitely helps the patience. Without enough experience, it is ridiculously hard to focus on the game for that long, especially considering how soul crushing it is. There's so much defeat and frustration. Heh.

Even with the "tune-up glitch" run, even though it is significantly easier than otherwise, it will still be a really hard run to do. ^_^

Quote:

But I'll still keep at it anyways. I'll upload my run through for anyone who's curious. I know PJ has expressed a lack of interest in watching, so, I'm cool if he doesn't feel like it. But, PJ, if you do decide to watch any of it, could you critique the two runs to Romus and whatever you feel like watching of the Earth Cave battles? That'd be really neat, I'm having a hard time figuring out the best way to dodge enemies on the world map. Whenever an enemy is about to touch me, I just pause for a bit, hoping that they'll just go right past me, as I've found that when I try to dodge, I often just run straight into them.

Although I said I won't watch an hour of footage, I'll gladly watch a few clips and battles and do my best to help. Battle strategies are somewhat easy for me to help with (assuming I know what to do), but giving tips on enemy dodging is really tough. It just takes experience. I sometimes do really well with it and other times do extremely poorly. You just need to play with confidence. Just pretend you know how the enemies are going to move and work with it. Tongue

I sometimes pretend an enemy will move out of the way and just charge him. That sometimes works. Other times I'll waddle back and forth and hope the enemies just move harmlessly away. That also sometimes works. Both of those fail an equal number of times, though. Haha. Unless there is a really obvious gap that is going to open, or a really obvious swarm of enemies that can be dodged, I don't try too much in terms of going out of my way to dodge. A single enemy will often move away on his own.

Kirkq did suggest that I try the pausing/delaying when an enemy is about to touch me, but I never had any success with that. It's probably worth looking into, but it's way easier for me to just do what I've been doing for the past few years. Sure it's less reliable (sometimes?), but it also doesn't require any thought. Haha.

[quote="FionordeQuester"]Well, alright then, I've just done a quick run through with Esuna, leveling her up to 11 and getting her all the way to Zellis.  The only break I took was taken 27 minutes in (I had to leave to go somewhere), the rest was played from start to finish after I had gotten back. This is the time I got....

TIME: 1:16

That was the first time I had ever attempted this, and I died twice in the Earth Cave, so I think that with some better battle strategies (one of the times I died was out of carelesness), and some better luck (I got seriously unlucky at times), I think I can beat PJ's fastest time to Bonro with relative consistency (you had 1:06 on the clock on your fastest Lejes run, right?).  The question is, will I be able to do the rest of the Present with the same kind of consistency?  Who knows?  [/quote]

I honestly don't remember my time at Zellis.  :/  Sorry.  If I said it was 1:06 before, I'd believe that.  It sounds about right.  Your 1:16 is a very good time to that point regardless of how fast I did it before.  Nice work!  You can definitely cut that down to "my" time or below with a bit more practice.  :)  Your last question is indeed the issue.  Esuna does extremely well in the Earth Cave; she can heal with magic, Ice 1 is really strong on Undeads (eventually), and she can stay there for a long time because MP Catcher seems to hit Undeads pretty frequently.  Like you, though, I am concerned about the rest of the present.

Melenam is a tough spot for me to level, as I mentioned.  From 11-15 is always very rough.  I rely heavily on B Protects, but even with those I fear that Esuna might not be strong enough to survive 2 Orcs or 2 B.Demons.  Let me know what your experience is with that section.  I know Lejes struggled a lot there (I suffered many deaths in my SS run here), and with Lux I just spammed B Power and B Protect because I had a lot of money from not buying Natr Sword or Scarf.

The rest of the present is a blur honestly, but I do remember struggling so much and being extremely mad.  She gets killed by everything!  Even with good strategy, if an enemy dodges at a critical moment you are dead.  Esuna is always very vulnerable.  Granted it's not much easier with Lejes, but I had the best memories with using him.

[quote]But man, I have to say, that wasn't easy.  Playing the game for that long can really wear on your mind after a while, so much so that I'm not sure Esuna is the right choice for a "no Tune Up glitch" run even if she does prove to be better than Lejes.  I mean, she takes a lot more strategy, menu navigation, and item management, and since mistakes are most likely inevitable when you play for 11 hours straight, that's going to haunt whoever's running with her.... [/quote]

Haha, yea.  That is definitely an issue.  I learned that the less I focus on the game, the more tolerable that is.  I've played this so much that I don't have to think at all about map navigation or what chests to open (except for M.Pison's cave sometimes).  Same with enemy strats.  I've fought so many battles I just kind of know what to do.  That definitely helps the patience.  Without enough experience, it is ridiculously hard to focus on the game for that long, especially considering how soul crushing it is.  There's so much defeat and frustration.  Heh.

Even with the "tune-up glitch" run, even though it is significantly easier than otherwise, it will still be a really hard run to do.  ^_^

[quote]But I'll still keep at it anyways.  I'll upload my run through for anyone who's curious.  I know PJ has expressed a lack of interest in watching, so, I'm cool if he doesn't feel like it.  But, PJ, if you do decide to watch any of it, could you critique the two runs to Romus and whatever you feel like watching of the Earth Cave battles?  That'd be really neat, I'm having a hard time figuring out the best way to dodge enemies on the world map.  Whenever an enemy is about to touch me, I just pause for a bit, hoping that they'll just go right past me, as I've found that when I try to dodge, I often just run straight into them.[/quote]

Although I said I won't watch an hour of footage, I'll gladly watch a few clips and battles and do my best to help.  Battle strategies are somewhat easy for me to help with (assuming I know what to do), but giving tips on enemy dodging is really tough.  It just takes experience.  I sometimes do really well with it and other times do extremely poorly.  You just need to play with confidence.  Just pretend you know how the enemies are going to move and work with it.  :P  I sometimes pretend an enemy will move out of the way and just charge him.  That sometimes works.  Other times I'll waddle back and forth and hope the enemies just move harmlessly away.  That also sometimes works.  Both of those fail an equal number of times, though.  Haha.  Unless there is a really obvious gap that is going to open, or a really obvious swarm of enemies that can be dodged, I don't try too much in terms of going out of my way to dodge.  A single enemy will often move away on his own.

Kirkq did suggest that I try the pausing/delaying when an enemy is about to touch me, but I never had any success with that.  It's probably worth looking into, but it's way easier for me to just do what I've been doing for the past few years.  Sure it's less reliable (sometimes?), but it also doesn't require any thought.  Haha.

PJ

2012-01-17 10:37:41 am

Is PJ

Ok. I did an entire run of this in one sitting yesterday (but it wasn't single segment because I reset a few times in the past, and once when I got to the past to check my time) and finished in around 7:40. My in-game time at the final save was 7:34 and it took 5:30 from that point to kill the final boss. Sub-8 is definitely possible; a sub-7:30 is probably the SS goal time.

Basically, Lux crushed the beginning of the game. Once I got to level 13 with him, I tried to recruit Lejes, who joined on the second try (had to fight 5 battles to get him to change his mind) and joined at level 14. In a SS, I'll level to 14 with Lux before I recruit, because then there's a 75% chance of Lejes being level 14 or 15. I killed R.Pison in 2 hits, Lux died, and Lejes proceeded. I leveled to 23 around Pell and then crushed the spider cavern and the Patrof apprentice. Nitrodon and I got to test his amazing RNG manipulation in Guntz to get perfect rolls on all seeds:

http://www.twitch.tv/pjdicesare/b/305723974

I think I will just collect all the seeds and hoard them until I get to Pandam/Bone, and then just use all 8 or 9 seeds at once. Getting perfect 4's on all seeds is really awesome. Cheesy

Anyways, I died a whole bunch getting from level 23/24 to 29 (well, maybe like 3 times), which needs to be improved, but the leveling went really well. I got the Ring and Fear Sword at Pandam. Bilthem was no problem at this level, and Baram was also pretty easy with the assistance of B Agility. I grabbed the Ice Cloak and Amulet on the way. The main issue came at the new continent. Dooms are plentiful and dangerous. I was just using Moon Rune, defend-attacking, and then attacking once more to finish them. It worked MOST of the time, but is still not really safe. Whenever I am unsure of my survival, I was using B Agility.

The Silence Cave (M.Pison's place?) was pretty good. The battles are very tolerable with B Agility and Ice Cloak. M.Pison himself was no problem, really. I used the Amulet so I didn't have to keep rebuffing, and I had plenty of harps to protect against vacuum. I just needed to stay at full health because he could hit for like 155 out of my 175 health with a crit. Pretty scary. I survived even with him using Heal 3 near the end of the battle.

Monmo is fine at this level. I was doing 35-50 damage with Fire 2, but I was never getting hit so that was perfect. Amulet protects against HPCatcher, which saves a lot of time. Gariso was actually pretty easy, too. It will be easiest to just stall him out of MP with F SHID, since his magic attacks are very strong. Once he is out of MP, he is really easy to kill.

The past..........the past is a big concern. I forgot where to go to get from the first town to the second town. After Nitrodon reminded me, it was slightly more possible, but still so dangerous. I think Lejes was level 32 at this point. Serpants are pretty much guaranteed death. Ghouls are ok and Derguns are ok, but those enemies are just terror. I might switch to the Ring and hope that my mirrors reflect a petrify spell so I can run/kill them. Running from the second town to Ligena is a bit easier and the enemies are more vulnerable to vacuum (F.Witches and Spirits) but those battles are still so scary because I'm such a low level. I just need to practice making that run without encounters.

Once I got to Melenam, the game was over. The Lux tune-up glitch is super easy to do. I failed it three times, but then successfully did it 11-12 times in a row. Lux then just swept the game. Every boss died in 3-4 hits and I think he was hit a grand total of 2 times (although Gorsia critted him on the first turn for like 500-something and brought me down to like 12 HP). What a way to end the game. Reminder: I need to buy a spare exigate. I pick up one in Bilthem to use in Silence Cave, but I need to buy another for the Goron/Griffan cave because I can't death abuse there now.

All in all, the new route is amazing, but really damn scary. I don't know how many deaths are acceptable in a SS run, but I know I need to cut down on them a lot.

Ok.  I did an entire run of this in one sitting yesterday (but it wasn't single segment because I reset a few times in the past, and once when I got to the past to check my time) and finished in around 7:40.  My in-game time at the final save was 7:34 and it took 5:30 from that point to kill the final boss.  Sub-8 is definitely possible; a sub-7:30 is probably the SS goal time.

Basically, Lux crushed the beginning of the game.  Once I got to level 13 with him, I tried to recruit Lejes, who joined on the second try (had to fight 5 battles to get him to change his mind) and joined at level 14.  In a SS, I'll level to 14 with Lux before I recruit, because then there's a 75% chance of Lejes being level 14 or 15.  I killed R.Pison in 2 hits, Lux died, and Lejes proceeded.  I leveled to 23 around Pell and then crushed the spider cavern and the Patrof apprentice.  Nitrodon and I got to test his amazing RNG manipulation in Guntz to get perfect rolls on all seeds:

http://www.twitch.tv/pjdicesare/b/305723974

I think I will just collect all the seeds and hoard them until I get to Pandam/Bone, and then just use all 8 or 9 seeds at once.  Getting perfect 4's on all seeds is really awesome.  :D  Anyways, I died a whole bunch getting from level 23/24 to 29 (well, maybe like 3 times), which needs to be improved, but the leveling went really well.  I got the Ring and Fear Sword at Pandam.  Bilthem was no problem at this level, and Baram was also pretty easy with the assistance of B Agility.  I grabbed the Ice Cloak and Amulet on the way.  The main issue came at the new continent.  Dooms are plentiful and dangerous.  I was just using Moon Rune, defend-attacking, and then attacking once more to finish them.  It worked MOST of the time, but is still not really safe.  Whenever I am unsure of my survival, I was using B Agility.

The Silence Cave (M.Pison's place?) was pretty good.  The battles are very tolerable with B Agility and Ice Cloak.  M.Pison himself was no problem, really.  I used the Amulet so I didn't have to keep rebuffing, and I had plenty of harps to protect against vacuum.  I just needed to stay at full health because he could hit for like 155 out of my 175 health with a crit.  Pretty scary.  I survived even with him using Heal 3 near the end of the battle.

Monmo is fine at this level.  I was doing 35-50 damage with Fire 2, but I was never getting hit so that was perfect.  Amulet protects against HPCatcher, which saves a lot of time.  Gariso was actually pretty easy, too.  It will be easiest to just stall him out of MP with F SHID, since his magic attacks are very strong.  Once he is out of MP, he is really easy to kill.

The past..........the past is a big concern.  I forgot where to go to get from the first town to the second town.  After Nitrodon reminded me, it was slightly more possible, but still so dangerous.  I think Lejes was level 32 at this point.  Serpants are pretty much guaranteed death.  Ghouls are ok and Derguns are ok, but those enemies are just terror.  I might switch to the Ring and hope that my mirrors reflect a petrify spell so I can run/kill them.  Running from the second town to Ligena is a bit easier and the enemies are more vulnerable to vacuum (F.Witches and Spirits) but those battles are still so scary because I'm such a low level.  I just need to practice making that run without encounters.

Once I got to Melenam, the game was over.  The Lux tune-up glitch is super easy to do.  I failed it three times, but then successfully did it 11-12 times in a row.  Lux then just swept the game.  Every boss died in 3-4 hits and I think he was hit a grand total of 2 times (although Gorsia critted him on the first turn for like 500-something and brought me down to like 12 HP).  What a way to end the game.  Reminder: I need to buy a spare exigate.  I pick up one in Bilthem to use in Silence Cave, but I need to buy another for the Goron/Griffan cave because I can't death abuse there now.

All in all, the new route is amazing, but really damn scary.  I don't know how many deaths are acceptable in a SS run, but I know I need to cut down on them a lot.

dram55

2012-01-18 04:39:20 pm

www.smwwiki.com

beast

PJ

2012-06-22 06:25:28 pm

Is PJ

New best time: 6:57:XX!!!

Never thought it'd be possible to cut the 7-hr mark, but damn. I crushed this run. Unfortunately, this was a "casual playthrough" on my stream, so it wasn't recorded and it was done over two days. And I reset a few times to check my times and manipulate Lejes' level when he joined. So yea, wouldn't have been a valid submission even if I was recording, but it was a great test run. I'll either make highlights on twitch or I'll just save the broadcast so I don't lose the footage.

The issue I have with this run is that my luck was TOO good. The beginning of the game was a bit sketchy, as always. After I got Lejes, I didn't die until about 10 steps before Ligena in the past. Yea...he went nearly 4 hours without a single death. It was an unreal run. And that was the only death for the rest of the game. So the last 5 hours or so just saw one death. o.O

New strategies: I played it safe. I almost always fully buffed whenever I felt I was in danger, and I always healed instead of taking a risk. In the later half of the game, I used B Agilities liberally to make the battles easier, and I spent most of my vast wealth on M Waters to revive Lux so I get a free turn of buffs. It definitely paid off, because dying costs a loooot of time.

I want to write down some level guidelines here for my reference later:

Cave of Earth: Enter at level 7, grind to 10 or 11.
Melenam: Grind to 14. We want Lejes to be at least level 14.
Pell grinding: Grind to level 23.
<No more intentional leveling is needed for now. Run from Pandam to Luze.>
Isle of Beore: Grind until 29. Don't use Water Rune to heal fully. It is faster to heal with potions outside of battle. Always use Star Rune in S.Brain battles until you can consistently dodge (usually level 26-27).

That's all the grinding Lejes does. I'll quickly outline the rest of the boss strats for reference:

Dragon: Don't get hit by fireball. This is a long fight.
Sky Rune apprentice: Attack. Attack.
Doros: Keep the ring equipped to avoid vacuum death. Lux uses Star, Lejes uses F SHID. Continue to buff. Stall here until he is out of MP.
Serpent: Equip amulet (avoid petrify) right before Serpent. Grab Ice Cloak along the way. These battles aren't a big threat at level 29.
M.Pison: Equip amulet to avoid annoying defense2 spam. Don't let health drop below max, because he can crit for massive damage. Long fight.
Monmo: Amulet.
Gariso: I think I use the ring here to avoid vacuum. Keep Lux alive in the castle in case of Chimere battles (in those, have Lux use B Agility on Lejes, and then have Lejes Star Rune himself...needs amulet equipped to avoid defense2).

In the past, I use the ring so that enemies who want to hit me with petrify will give me an easy victory (aka, the only way to beat Serpants). I keep Lux alive all the time, so he can use B Agility on Lejes and Lejes can escape. I vacuum enemies that are vacuumable (Ghouls and F Witches), and I buy 9 M Herb 2's in the first town so I can liberally use vacuum. I was able to run away from Derguns pretty easily, but I killed the others or used B Agility to help me run away.

So yea, while this time can come down more, I doubt I'll be able to do it in a real run. My luck was unstoppable. I'll worry about that when I am ready to do attempts, though. Tongue

New best time:  6:57:XX!!!

Never thought it'd be possible to cut the 7-hr mark, but damn.  I crushed this run.  Unfortunately, this was a "casual playthrough" on my stream, so it wasn't recorded and it was done over two days.  And I reset a few times to check my times and manipulate Lejes' level when he joined.  So yea, wouldn't have been a valid submission even if I was recording, but it was a great test run.  I'll either make highlights on twitch or I'll just save the broadcast so I don't lose the footage.

The issue I have with this run is that my luck was TOO good.  The beginning of the game was a bit sketchy, as always.  After I got Lejes, I didn't die until about 10 steps before Ligena in the past.  Yea...he went nearly 4 hours without a single death.  It was an unreal run.  And that was the only death for the rest of the game.  So the last 5 hours or so just saw one death.  o.O

New strategies: I played it safe.  I almost always fully buffed whenever I felt I was in danger, and I always healed instead of taking a risk.  In the later half of the game, I used B Agilities liberally to make the battles easier, and I spent most of my vast wealth on M Waters to revive Lux so I get a free turn of buffs.  It definitely paid off, because dying costs a loooot of time.

I want to write down some level guidelines here for my reference later:

Cave of Earth: Enter at level 7, grind to 10 or 11.
Melenam: Grind to 14.  We want Lejes to be at least level 14.
Pell grinding: Grind to level 23.
<No more intentional leveling is needed for now.  Run from Pandam to Luze.>
Isle of Beore: Grind until 29.  Don't use Water Rune to heal fully.  It is faster to heal with potions outside of battle.  Always use Star Rune in S.Brain battles until you can consistently dodge (usually level 26-27).

That's all the grinding Lejes does.  I'll quickly outline the rest of the boss strats for reference:

Dragon:  Don't get hit by fireball.  This is a long fight.
Sky Rune apprentice:  Attack.  Attack.
Doros:  Keep the ring equipped to avoid vacuum death.  Lux uses Star, Lejes uses F SHID.  Continue to buff.  Stall here until he is out of MP.
Serpent:  Equip amulet (avoid petrify) right before Serpent.  Grab Ice Cloak along the way.  These battles aren't a big threat at level 29.
M.Pison:  Equip amulet to avoid annoying defense2 spam.  Don't let health drop below max, because he can crit for massive damage.  Long fight.
Monmo:  Amulet.
Gariso:  I think I use the ring here to avoid vacuum.  Keep Lux alive in the castle in case of Chimere battles (in those, have Lux use B Agility on Lejes, and then have Lejes Star Rune himself...needs amulet equipped to avoid defense2).

In the past, I use the ring so that enemies who want to hit me with petrify will give me an easy victory (aka, the only way to beat Serpants).  I keep Lux alive all the time, so he can use B Agility on Lejes and Lejes can escape.  I vacuum enemies that are vacuumable (Ghouls and F Witches), and I buy 9 M Herb 2's in the first town so I can liberally use vacuum.  I was able to run away from Derguns pretty easily, but I killed the others or used B Agility to help me run away.

So yea, while this time can come down more, I doubt I'll be able to do it in a real run.  My luck was unstoppable.  I'll worry about that when I am ready to do attempts, though.  :P

Everhate

2012-06-27 11:01:50 am

Was quite a nice run, and inspired me (is 'inspired' the right word? Perhaps lobotomized) into running through the games a couple of times casually. Managed about a 12.5 hour clear of solo wilme (getting 1-shotted all the time by anything that casts anything is fun. Time at last save with the runes was 12:12, and it was a pretty poor run, but at least it managed to kill gorsia on the first attempt at lvl 49 =D)

Will have to give the route a try, as it would be nice to have the destroyer of worlds in my pocket for the last stretch of the game, instead of being in a 'avoid, run, or die' scenario for the last couple of areas.

Also, I am jealous of PJs ability to dodge encounters...only a couple of places in the game I can actually managed to avoid stuff semi-reliably, hah.

PJ

2012-06-27 01:03:40 pm

Is PJ

Haha, I'm glad I inspired you to play this again! I love this game. ^_^

Level 49 sounds about right for a solo Wilme run. I used to end most of my single character runs at level 47, but it was still rare to kill Gorsia. He's such a stupid boss! That's definitely the main reason I do this tune-up glitch route. 12.5 hours is quite a good time for a solo character run, though! Wilme is a tough one because, as you said, his magic stat is so low. Coccoons and Sages mid-game just obliterate him. Well done. Smiley

As for dodging encounters...I don't really know what to say. Thanks, I guess. Haha. I mean, a lot of it is still luck, but you do eventually learn to recognize when you can kind of 'group' the enemies or make some gaps to squeeze through. Just takes a bit of experience and a lot of confidence. A lot of the time I just run directly into an enemy and assume he'll move out of my way (doesn't work, btw). Haha.

Everhate

Edit history:

Everhate: 2012-06-28 09:47:41 am

2012-06-28 09:08:53 am

Did a first 'test' run using PJs route, and other than completely awful luck throughout the entire run it worked rather well.

I only managed to die about a dozen times between the end of S.brain grinding and overpowering lux (finally got the timing fairly consistent after about an hour or so of practice). The luck though...holy mother of god, I'm glad I didnt stream this run, hah. Final time discarding the practice on the tune-up glitch would be around 8.5 hours. Far from impressive, but a decent start.

My encounter rate on brains around pell was about 1 per 12 encounters, and only got s.brains 1 per 5. And averaged 3 speed per level with Lejes. On the bright side, it's unlikely another run will be this horrible on the luck side of things. It really extended the grinding quite a bit, and the rng deaths making the suicide runs starting near the silence cave and in the past were particularly poorly.

Need to clean up a couple of spots as far as taking wrong turns, but I definitely like the route.

One minor change I used that may speed things up very slightly was on Gariso. The general strategy was the same (buff up, wait for dodge at full health before moonlight), but I tended to normal attack 3x rather than try a defend-attack during the 3-turn window. Speed seemed to be high enough to very rarely miss, and it resulted in me only wasting 1 turn on a bad round rather than potentially losing an entire defend-attack to a badly timed crit.

I'm sure a number of my fights could be cleaned up a bit, but that'll come with practice. Just thought I'd note the one small thing and see if more come with testing.

Edit: Also kinda torn on whether or not to get the topaz from the basement in Aran. that 500g really helps smooth out the early gold issues, but it does take a decent chunk of time to get...one of those things to test when it strikes me I suppose. Seems like it would basically save a trip to town, so it may pay for itself in the lvl 7-10 range.

Did a first 'test' run using PJs route, and other than completely awful luck throughout the entire run it worked rather well.

I only managed to die about a dozen times between the end of S.brain grinding and overpowering lux (finally got the timing fairly consistent after about an hour or so of practice). The luck though...holy mother of god, I'm glad I didnt stream this run, hah. Final time discarding the practice on the tune-up glitch would be around 8.5 hours. Far from impressive, but a decent start.

My encounter rate on brains around pell was about 1 per 12 encounters, and only got s.brains 1 per 5. And averaged 3 speed per level with Lejes. On the bright side, it's unlikely another run will be this horrible on the luck side of things. It really extended the grinding quite a bit, and the rng deaths making the suicide runs starting near the silence cave and in the past were particularly poorly.

Need to clean up a couple of spots as far as taking wrong turns, but I definitely like the route.

One minor change I used that may speed things up very slightly was on Gariso. The general strategy was the same (buff up, wait for dodge at full health before moonlight), but I tended to normal attack 3x rather than try a defend-attack during the 3-turn window. Speed seemed to be high enough to very rarely miss, and it resulted in me only wasting 1 turn on a bad round rather than potentially losing an entire defend-attack to a badly timed crit.

I'm sure a number of my fights could be cleaned up a bit, but that'll come with practice. Just thought I'd note the one small thing and see if more come with testing.

Edit: Also kinda torn on whether or not to get the topaz from the basement in Aran. that 500g really helps smooth out the early gold issues, but it does take a decent chunk of time to get...one of those things to test when it strikes me I suppose. Seems like it would basically save a trip to town, so it may pay for itself in the lvl 7-10 range.

PJ

2012-06-28 12:41:44 pm

Is PJ

8.5 hrs is a great time! Well done! ^_^

I think you may be right about Gariso, no matter how you look at it, a bad hit will kill your round there. Haha. But yea, it's better to have a little bit of damage (from the first attack) than to deal no damage because of defending. I might try that. I wanted to have Lux alive for some of that battle so I could do 2 defend-attacks per round, but idk how feasible that is.

1/12 rate for Brains is really really bad luck. Damn. There are 3 encounters with Brains (out of 8) IIRC, so that should be the rate you get. Haha. Ouch. I've had really bad streaks against S.Brains too, but it's still maybe....1 in 3 usually. It definitely sucks when you die with this route (it costs a LOT of time), but sometimes it just cannot be avoided.

For early money, I get the topaz hidden in the tavern in Zellis, and whatever gem I get from killing the trick in Earth Cave (assuming I do actually succeed in killing him, haha). That is generally enough money for leveling before Melenam. After killing Romus and grinding for awhile around Rablesk, I usually have enough money for like 6 B.Protects, max Potn 1's, and a few Potn 2's. When I get to Melenam, money is obviously no longer a concern (Brown coat sells for 1500, and there are a lot of rubies/topaz/pearls/etc in there).

8.5 hrs is a great time!  Well done!  ^_^

I think you may be right about Gariso, no matter how you look at it, a bad hit will kill your round there.  Haha.  But yea, it's better to have a little bit of damage (from the first attack) than to deal no damage because of defending.  I might try that.  I wanted to have Lux alive for some of that battle so I could do 2 defend-attacks per round, but idk how feasible that is.

1/12 rate for Brains is really really bad luck.  Damn.  There are 3 encounters with Brains (out of 8) IIRC, so that should be the rate you get.  Haha.  Ouch.  I've had really bad streaks against S.Brains too, but it's still maybe....1 in 3 usually.  It definitely sucks when you die with this route (it costs a LOT of time), but sometimes it just cannot be avoided.

For early money, I get the topaz hidden in the tavern in Zellis, and whatever gem I get from killing the trick in Earth Cave (assuming I do actually succeed in killing him, haha).  That is generally enough money for leveling before Melenam.  After killing Romus and grinding for awhile around Rablesk, I usually have enough money for like 6 B.Protects, max Potn 1's, and a few Potn 2's.  When I get to Melenam, money is obviously no longer a concern (Brown coat sells for 1500, and there are a lot of rubies/topaz/pearls/etc in there).

Everhate

Edit history:

Everhate: 2012-06-29 12:30:15 pm

2012-06-28 06:48:36 pm

I had been getting the topaz from Zellis, and am a bit hit-and-miss on the trick fight (probably should wait until the end of grinding to kill it, but the chance to actually have gold at that point makes me greedy, heh). The topaz in the basement of Aran would potentially enable you to go into the Earth cave earlier, as even at level 5-6 you can use a bprotect and be able to kill undeads pretty reliably. Whether or not this is fast enough to justify it is something I haven't tested, but it's something I'm considering at least.

Really, though, the route seems to be solid enough that most of the thoughts I have on it are minor things like that to test. Maybe one of these days I'll actually stream something resembling a run, though I may have to get my hands on that Nitrodon sheet of seedy wizardry first :p

(Obligatory comment here about extreme 7th saga race on srl, bwahaha...ok no)

Edit: So it turns out the game's timer starts when you select a file, so time spent picking a name for Lux added another 3-4 mins to the time of your run. So without waiting for the awesomeness that is I AM to be delivered the run was more like 6:53-6:54 (depending on the rounding). Clearly those couple of minutes are of the utmost importance =D

I had been getting the topaz from Zellis, and am a bit hit-and-miss on the trick fight (probably should wait until the end of grinding to kill it, but the chance to actually have gold at that point makes me greedy, heh). The topaz in the basement of Aran would potentially enable you to go into the Earth cave earlier, as even at level 5-6 you can use a bprotect and be able to kill undeads pretty reliably. Whether or not this is fast enough to justify it is something I haven't tested, but it's something I'm considering at least.

Really, though,  the route seems to be solid enough that most of the thoughts I have on it are minor things like that to test. Maybe one of these days I'll actually stream something resembling a run, though I may have to get my hands on that Nitrodon sheet of seedy wizardry first :p

(Obligatory comment here about extreme 7th saga race on srl, bwahaha...ok no)

Edit: So it turns out the game's timer starts when you select a file, so time spent picking a name for Lux added another 3-4 mins to the time of your run. So without waiting for the awesomeness that is I AM to be delivered the run was more like 6:53-6:54 (depending on the rounding). Clearly those couple of minutes are of the utmost importance =D

Exo

Edit history:

Exo: 2012-06-29 12:33:10 pm

2012-06-29 12:32:38 pm

Sandbagging

Every second counts in a 7th saga run.
Why are there 2 people working on this now? Don't you have better games to play Everhate? ;(

Everhate

2012-06-29 12:34:34 pm

Quote from Exo:

Every second counts in a 7th saga run.
Why are there 2 people working on this now? Don't you have better games to play Everhate? ;(

There are better games than 7th saga and Soul Blazer? I have heard of no such things.

PJ

2012-06-29 01:31:15 pm

Is PJ

Haha the timer really starts then? Damn! I never knew! That's pretty great, haha. Thanks for checking. ^_^

One Lady Owner

Edit history:

One Lady Owner: 2012-07-02 04:11:38 am

2012-07-02 04:11:21 am

Quote from Everhate:

There are better games than 7th saga and Soul Blazer? I have heard of no such things.

Lagoon? Drakkhen? Cheesy

(If I'm really honest, I did enjoy these on the SNES, although not as much as the quoted games, but I was about 12 and video games in and of themselves were new and novel. Doesn't take much to impress a child. Soul Blazer does remain one of my favorite games ever.)

dram55

2012-07-02 10:27:11 pm

www.smwwiki.com

This competition gets me excited.

Smiley

FionordeQuester

Edit history:

FionordeQuester: 2013-01-31 04:41:36 am

2013-01-31 12:48:11 am

Yo, guys, I'm bumping this thread...and oh hey, guess what, I managed to beat PJ's time! Well, in theory anyways, as I did save state a lot over my mistakes, but I still believe this could be easily replicated! For those interested, the final time was something like 6:36 (give or take a minute or two), and the route is as follows...

1) Do what PJ does up until the Wind Rune. Then recruit an apprentice (preferably Valsu, but anyone will do), and kill R. Pison with the co-operation of the two).

2) Grind Brains as normal near Pell until Level 17, then do everything up to Pandam while getting the three B. Agilities while your at it. Save near Pandam (my time here was 2:55 just before taking the ship to Pandam), and with the help of B. Agilities (use them only on Mutant and Cocoon encounters, unless you're on the home stretch), get to Pang while fighting everything but Mutants (3:06). Sell the Ring and buy everything you need, including B. Agilities and M Waters, then after reviving partner, go to Brush to buy some Potion 3's (3:14...but left off a death where I didn't revive my partner at all, and therefore suffered for it), go to Padal to talk to Prosa (3:18), then go to Polasu for some Harps, and get to Luze via any means necessary (3:35, though I did this without reviving my partner...might be a tad risky though). Grind S. Brains as normal until Level 24 (4:10), at which point you should fight the Dragon (4:12...though I got lucky in him never casting Defense1).

3) Take the fight to Doros, but MAKE SURE YOU GET TO LEVEL 25 AND REVIVE PARTNER BEFORE REACHING HIM! Anything lower than Level 25 means you're getting one shotted by Doros's Fire 2, and obviously THAT'S not going to do! And of course you need your buddy for free buffing! (4:33....though I left off a death where two Mutants killed me for being careless enough to not use B. Agility). Then go to Polasu, restock on Harps, revive your partner, and head to Serpent's castle (the reason you revive your partner is just in case you run into three Flames. First run, I was wiped by them, and the second one where I DID use my partner, I encountered them TWICE o.O!!). You only need to be Level 26 by the end of this, so only fight enough enemies for Serpent to push you over the edge, then crush her (4:53)

4) Get the Moon Rune, then when you find the Sky Rune apprentice, get them to join your party by saving and asking them to join. Should that fail, fight two enemies, see if they changed their mind, fight two more enemies if they haven't left yet. The idea is that, no matter what, it'll take five fights to change their reaction, but this way, you'll make sure that they stay in one place as you try over and over again, and tracking down apprentices won't be as tedious as usual thanks to them having the Sky Rune to track...though unfortunately, there's an element of randomness to it, and if you're unfortunate enough to get Valsu (why I recommended he fight R. Pison with you), it's basically a reset right there.

Anyways though, I got Esuna here (5:07...4:59 in "in-game" time, however, it took me four tries to recruit her...though fortunately I was lucky enough to get her to join on Level 27 on the first try!)

5) Head to Valenca, then once you get there, shop for all the necessary Mirrors, Potion 3's, Potion 2's, and Magic Waters that you need, that way you'll save a couple steps on navigating out of Valenca. Run away from everything you can while proceeding to Guanta, and if accosted by Doom's, have Lux and Partner use B. Agility and Moon Rune respectively on him. (5:22, though I was lucky enough to only get one Doom). Then kill M. Pison in what is without a doubt the most poorly designed battle in the game (well, in the English version anyways since they apparently felt the need to increase his HP to almost TRIPLE the amount it was in the original version as well as buff his defense. Yes, M.Pison was FAR more reasonable in Elnard...).

However, it is also here in which you learn the real beauty of my RTA strategy here. See, Esuna is perhaps the weakest character in the game in terms of physical prowess, right? Yet, with the Elnard boosts she has by recruiting her as late as I did, even SHE is doing around 80-90 damage to a Defense1 boosted M. Pison, which isn't much worse than what Lux is doing...now just imagine if I had been a bit luckier in who I got! Starting to see possibilities here? Anyways, head back to Guanta (5:31).

6) Defeat Monmo by boosting your partner with everything but the Moon Rune, letting Lux die, then repeatedly whatever you can to kill Monmo...which unfortunately, for Esuna, means blasting him with Ice 2's over and over again until he's lost 3/4th's of his health before FINALLY unloading with the B. Fire's. Otherwise, they would not only be insufficient, but he would just heal them all anyways. Good thing you got those Recoveries from those brains....right?

Well, anyways, after that whole mess, beat Gariso with all physical attacks as, funnily enough, even Esuna's physicals are more powerful than her magic against Gariso (5:58...too bad I had to have Esuna...>_<...).

7) Get some Potion 3's, Magic Waters, Potions 2's, and all that jazz, and head to the nearest town as fast as you can, as the enemies are no longer so easy to run from as they were before, ESPECIALLY that blue colored snake lady who WILL kill even Esuna with a lucky Blizzard 2. (6:08...tacked on an extra five minutes because I suffered one death here). Then go to the next town...(6:09...because I didn't get a SINGLE ENCOUNTER on the way! Sure made up for that death, huh?).

8) I believe the rest is pretty self-explanatory from here, so I'll just leave off by saying that my final time was, once again, 6:36...or at least it would've been had Gorsia not scored a lucky crit...BUT THAT'S BESIDES THE POINT. And that point is, if I can achieve that even with an Elnard partner like Esuna...just imagine what you could do with someone like Lejes or Wilme with my current route. Heck, even Kamil and Olvan could probably do their jobs sufficiently...they just might have a bit of a harder time running away is all.

So what do you think PJ? This isn't really single segment stuff so much as it is RTA stuff, but I thought it was interesting nevertheless.

EDIT: After running this a bit more, I've discovered that it's actually faster to Level to 19 and 25 on Brains and S. Brains respectively, and skip as many fights as I can, rather than just fighting every enemy. So, with this in mind, I've managed to push my time down to 4:39 by the time I defeated Serpent. Also, I got to Lejes, and was lucky enough that he wanted to join me on sight, though I had to restart about 7 times until he came at Level 27...darn shame all he has is the Muramasa >_<...

Yo, guys, I'm bumping this thread...and oh hey, guess what, I managed to beat PJ's time!  Well, in theory anyways, as I did save state a lot over my mistakes, but I still believe this could be easily replicated!  For those interested, the final time was something like 6:36 (give or take a minute or two), and the route is as follows...

1) Do what PJ does up until the Wind Rune.  Then recruit an apprentice (preferably Valsu, but anyone will do), and kill R. Pison with the co-operation of the two).

2) Grind Brains as normal near Pell until Level 17, then do everything up to Pandam while getting the three B. Agilities while your at it.  Save near Pandam (my time here was 2:55 just before taking the ship to Pandam), and with the help of B. Agilities (use them only on Mutant and Cocoon encounters, unless you're on the home stretch), get to Pang while fighting everything but Mutants (3:06).  Sell the Ring and buy everything you need, including B. Agilities and M Waters, then after reviving partner, go to Brush to buy some Potion 3's (3:14...but left off a death where I didn't revive my partner at all, and therefore suffered for it), go to Padal to talk to Prosa (3:18), then go to Polasu for some Harps, and get to Luze via any means necessary (3:35, though I did this without reviving my partner...might be a tad risky though).  Grind S. Brains as normal until Level 24 (4:10), at which point you should fight the Dragon (4:12...though I got lucky in him never casting Defense1).

3) Take the fight to Doros, but MAKE SURE YOU GET TO LEVEL 25 AND REVIVE PARTNER BEFORE REACHING HIM!  Anything lower than Level 25 means you're getting one shotted by Doros's Fire 2, and obviously THAT'S not going to do!  And of course you need your buddy for free buffing!  (4:33....though I left off a death where two Mutants killed me for being careless enough to not use B. Agility).  Then go to Polasu, restock on Harps, revive your partner, and head to Serpent's castle (the reason you revive your partner is just in case you run into three Flames.  First run, I was wiped by them, and the second one where I DID use my partner, I encountered them TWICE o.O!!).  You only need to be Level 26 by the end of this, so only fight enough enemies for Serpent to push you over the edge, then crush her (4:53)

4) Get the Moon Rune, then when you find the Sky Rune apprentice, get them to join your party by saving and asking them to join.  Should that fail, fight two enemies, see if they changed their mind, fight two more enemies if they haven't left yet.  The idea is that, no matter what, it'll take five fights to change their reaction, but this way, you'll make sure that they stay in one place as you try over and over again, and tracking down apprentices won't be as tedious as usual thanks to them having the Sky Rune to track...though unfortunately, there's an element of randomness to it, and if you're unfortunate enough to get Valsu (why I recommended he fight R. Pison with you), it's basically a reset right there.

Anyways though, I got Esuna here (5:07...4:59 in "in-game" time, however, it took me four tries to recruit her...though fortunately I was lucky enough to get her to join on Level 27 on the first try!)

5) Head to Valenca, then once you get there, shop for all the necessary Mirrors, Potion 3's, Potion 2's, and Magic Waters that you need, that way you'll save a couple steps on navigating out of Valenca.  Run away from everything you can while proceeding to Guanta, and if accosted by Doom's, have Lux and Partner use B. Agility and Moon Rune respectively on him. (5:22, though I was lucky enough to only get one Doom).  Then kill M. Pison in what is without a doubt the most poorly designed battle in the game (well, in the English version anyways since they apparently felt the need to increase his HP to almost TRIPLE the amount it was in the original version as well as buff his defense.  Yes, M.Pison was FAR more reasonable in Elnard...).

However, it is also here in which you learn the real beauty of my RTA strategy here.  See, Esuna is perhaps the weakest character in the game in terms of physical prowess, right?  Yet, with the Elnard boosts she has by recruiting her as late as I did, even SHE is doing around 80-90 damage to a Defense1 boosted M. Pison, which isn't much worse than what Lux is doing...now just imagine if I had been a bit luckier in who I got!  Starting to see possibilities here?  Anyways, head back to Guanta (5:31).

6) Defeat Monmo by boosting your partner with everything but the Moon Rune, letting Lux die, then repeatedly whatever you can to kill Monmo...which unfortunately, for Esuna, means blasting him with Ice 2's over and over again until he's lost 3/4th's of his health before FINALLY unloading with the B. Fire's.  Otherwise, they would not only be insufficient, but he would just heal them all anyways.  Good thing you got those Recoveries from those brains....right?

Well, anyways, after that whole mess, beat Gariso with all physical attacks as, funnily enough, even Esuna's physicals are more powerful than her magic against Gariso (5:58...too bad I had to have Esuna...>_<...).

7) Get some Potion 3's, Magic Waters, Potions 2's, and all that jazz, and head to the nearest town as fast as you can, as the enemies are no longer so easy to run from as they were before, ESPECIALLY that blue colored snake lady who WILL kill even Esuna with a lucky Blizzard 2.  (6:08...tacked on an extra five minutes because I suffered one death here).  Then go to the next town...(6:09...because I didn't get a SINGLE ENCOUNTER on the way!  Sure made up for that death, huh?).

8) I believe the rest is pretty self-explanatory from here, so I'll just leave off by saying that my final time was, once again, 6:36...or at least it would've been had Gorsia not scored a lucky crit...BUT THAT'S BESIDES THE POINT.  And that point is, if I can achieve that even with an Elnard partner like Esuna...just imagine what you could do with someone like Lejes or Wilme with my current route.  Heck, even Kamil and Olvan could probably do their jobs sufficiently...they just might have a bit of a harder time running away is all.

So what do you think PJ?  This isn't really single segment stuff so much as it is RTA stuff, but I thought it was interesting nevertheless.

EDIT: After running this a bit more, I've discovered that it's actually faster to Level to 19 and 25 on Brains and S. Brains respectively, and skip as many fights as I can, rather than just fighting every enemy.  So, with this in mind, I've managed to push my time down to 4:39 by the time I defeated Serpent.  Also, I got to Lejes, and was lucky enough that he wanted to join me on sight, though I had to restart about 7 times until he came at Level 27...darn shame all he has is the Muramasa >_<...

PJ

2013-01-31 04:43:17 pm

Is PJ

Quote:

So what do you think PJ? This isn't really single segment stuff so much as it is RTA stuff, but I thought it was interesting nevertheless.

This basically summarizes your post. That route is impossible single segment because you rely on getting two partners and godly luck throughout the run. If the sky rune apprentice wants to fight instead of joining you, your run is basically over. SDA won't accept RTA's of this game because there are no special tricks or anything that would make that a separate category. You'd just be resetting to account for bad luck, which is exactly what is forbidden.

The main thing I don't understand is the partner situation. You say to get a partner and then kill R.Pison. Ok, no problem. That is standard. But then level to 17...who is leveling here? If you're leveling the partner, then your sky rune strat doesn't work. If you're leveling Lux, you're being inefficient in the mid-game. There is no way Lux survives any of that at level 17. Idk what kind of luck/savestates you got in your practice run, but that is basically impossible. He can't run from anything at that level and gets OHKO'd by nearly every magic spell from Patrof onwards.

Overall, the route just seems less efficient than the current one. It sounds like a lot of backtracking/visiting places that don't matter and just hoping you don't get blasted by a magic spell along the way. Recruiting a level 14 Lejes at level 13, letting Lux die, and then soloing the game with Lejes is way way more consistent and actually makes a SS run possible. I haven't optimized my level guidelines yet, mostly because I have no motivation to do so without actually being able to record this run. I'm sure it's possible to beat the game at a much lower level than I did in my 6:57, but I just haven't checked. Overall though, for a SS run (in real time, no savestates allowed) it is better to be slightly overleveled and avoid a death than to try to risk it and die, especially with the Lux + Lejes strat. A death costs a looooot of time with this setup.

Regardless, nice thoughts and nice time! I won't be using that route I don't think but it's interesting to read anyways.

[quote]So what do you think PJ?  This isn't really single segment stuff so much as it is RTA stuff, but I thought it was interesting nevertheless.[/quote]

This basically summarizes your post.  That route is impossible single segment because you rely on getting two partners and godly luck throughout the run.  If the sky rune apprentice wants to fight instead of joining you, your run is basically over.  SDA won't accept RTA's of this game because there are no special tricks or anything that would make that a separate category.  You'd just be resetting to account for bad luck, which is exactly what is forbidden.

The main thing I don't understand is the partner situation.  You say to get a partner and then kill R.Pison.  Ok, no problem.  That is standard.  But then level to 17...who is leveling here?  If you're leveling the partner, then your sky rune strat doesn't work.  If you're leveling Lux, you're being inefficient in the mid-game.  There is no way Lux survives any of that at level 17.  Idk what kind of luck/savestates you got in your practice run, but that is basically impossible.  He can't run from anything at that level and gets OHKO'd by nearly every magic spell from Patrof onwards.

Overall, the route just seems less efficient than the current one.  It sounds like a lot of backtracking/visiting places that don't matter and just hoping you don't get blasted by a magic spell along the way.  Recruiting a level 14 Lejes at level 13, letting Lux die, and then soloing the game with Lejes is way way more consistent and actually makes a SS run possible.  I haven't optimized my level guidelines yet, mostly because I have no motivation to do so without actually being able to record this run.  I'm sure it's possible to beat the game at a much lower level than I did in my 6:57, but I just haven't checked.  Overall though, for a SS run (in real time, no savestates allowed) it is better to be slightly overleveled and avoid a death than to try to risk it and die, especially with the Lux + Lejes strat.  A death costs a looooot of time with this setup.

Regardless, nice thoughts and nice time!  I won't be using that route I don't think but it's interesting to read anyways.

FionordeQuester

Edit history:

FionordeQuester: 2013-01-31 06:52:36 pm

FionordeQuester: 2013-01-31 06:50:11 pm

FionordeQuester: 2013-01-31 06:36:21 pm

2013-01-31 06:35:15 pm

Well, I did make a mistake in Leveling only to 17, if only for the fact that it's actually faster to grind S. Brains to Level 21 rather than fighting every enemy you can along the way. However, I still maintain that Lux CAN run consistently enough from Mutants and Cocoons and the like, ESPECIALLY if we're manipulating seeds like you did in your WR run.

In fact, I'll try to prove it as best I can....if you don't feel like I'm being too pushy or anything like that. I mean, if you're not interested, that's that, but, I just wanted to prove that Lux is, indeed, perfectly fine in the mid-game. If you're interested, just tell me where you want me to start from, and for how long (after all, I know that you probably don't want to watch a whole hour or anything).

EDIT: By the way, wouldn't resetting for a partner to join you count as an RTA only trick? Seems to me that that's enough of a trick to justify that.

PJ

2013-01-31 07:01:00 pm

Is PJ

Recruiting a partner isn't a trick. Not getting him to join is simply bad luck. You CAN get a partner to join SS, so it's not RTA-only.

I used to grind to 19 in Pell before moving on to Patrof and I got SLAUGHTERED as Lux. He just could not do anything. Spiders crushed him, Cocoons crushed him, Sages crushed him, Mutants crushed him. He could survive other stuff, but nobody that used magic. It's possible that the perfect seeds overcome part of that, but I just have a lot of trouble believing that.

Maybe I'll test it out when I'm ready to run this game again. I still wouldn't be comfortable trying to recruit a partner at a higher level SS (triggering a battle and losing would end the run), but I'm curious to see how Lux does again.

FionordeQuester

Edit history:

FionordeQuester: 2013-01-31 07:11:12 pm

2013-01-31 07:07:25 pm

Well, first of all, Spidek's were actually pretty simple as long as you B. Defensed first (at worst, you'd get hit by two Defense2's, but you could usually get out of that rut), and you would usually only fight R. Demon's, Manta's, Platers, and Defeat's while running away from everything else until Luze. That's what I did at any rate...

Also, the fact that you can revive your partner whenever you're feeling uncomfortable with your odds helps a lot (though you ought not to do that until after your running to get Potion 3's, B. Agilities, and Mirrors).

PJ

2013-01-31 07:29:51 pm

Is PJ

Quote:

Well, first of all, Spidek's were actually pretty simple as long as you B. Defensed first (at worst, you'd get hit by two Defense2's, but you could usually get out of that rut), and you would usually only fight R. Demon's, Manta's, Platers, and Defeat's while running away from everything else until Luze. That's what I did at any rate...

Again, the thing that concerns me here is that your strategy for getting through the middle of the game is "Only get into battles with easy enemies". Maybe my luck is just really bad but I've never actually made it through the middle of the game with only fighting those enemies. I always get sages, cocoons, and mutants. In every playthrough. :/

FionordeQuester

Edit history:

FionordeQuester: 2013-01-31 07:32:07 pm

2013-01-31 07:30:51 pm

Actually I said, kill easy enemies, run from everything else, using B. Agilities for any Cocoon + Mutant encounters, since they can kill you in one round if you're unlucky. Or, alternatively, use an M. Water to revive your partner...

Of course, now that I know that grinding to Level 19 on Brains is actually faster than fighting the easy enemies along the way to Luze, I now just run from everything until then period.

FionordeQuester

Edit history:

FionordeQuester: 2013-02-18 09:51:44 pm

2013-02-18 09:35:33 pm

So PJ, when do you think you'll stream some 7th Saga/Elnard again? Because I'd still like to talk about all this. Smiley

ZenicReverie

2013-02-18 10:18:57 pm

Waiting hurts my soul...

Don't distract him from ActRaiser2! ;P

FionordeQuester

2013-02-18 10:26:09 pm

...Alright, fine...

PJ

2013-02-18 10:50:20 pm

Is PJ

What Zenic said. Tongue