Anyone ever consider a 7th Saga speed run?

2010-08-13 03:28:47 pm

Actually, Apprentices can be either be a level lower than you, at equal level, or at a level higher than you. So, technically, if you want there to be a 100% chance of success, you'll have to wait till Lux is Level 15.

Also, what's the usual tactic for Lux in fights? Is Defend Attack or all out Attack better? The first is better for mitigating damage, but the other one leaves less to chance when it comes to attacks landing, so I just wanted to know.

PJ

2010-08-13 03:33:13 pm

Is PJ

Quote from FionordeQuester:

Actually, Apprentices can be either be a level lower than you, at equal level, or at a level higher than you. So, technically, if you want there to be a 100% chance of success, you'll have to wait till Lux is Level 15.

Also, what's the usual tactic for Lux in fights? Is Defend Attack or all out Attack better? The first is better for mitigating damage, but the other one leaves less to chance when it comes to attacks landing, so I just wanted to know.

Hm. I don't like waiting until 15. I guess my options then are to recruit at 14 and hope he has the sword, or just buy it for 2700 when he joins. That's not very expensive considering I'll have a gem from the Trick (maybe?), a hidden Topaz in Zellis, and a handful of Melenam gems. The only other thing I buy is the Fear Sword (and maybe a final sword for Lejes if I want him to attack...it might be Doom Sword?), so money is of no concern to me this run. Plus, I'll have all the loot from S.Brain farming.

Lux tactics are the same as everybody else. He still needs to defend-attack to hit anything reasonably hard.

[quote="FionordeQuester"]
Actually, Apprentices can be either be a level [i]lower[/i] than you, at equal level, or at a level [i]higher[/i] than you.  So, technically, if you want there to be a 100% chance of success, you'll have to wait till Lux is Level 15.

Also, what's the usual tactic for Lux in fights?  Is Defend Attack or all out Attack better?  The first is better for mitigating damage, but the other one leaves less to chance when it comes to attacks landing, so I just wanted to know.
[/quote]

Hm.  I don't like waiting until 15.  I guess my options then are to recruit at 14 and hope he has the sword, or just buy it for 2700 when he joins.  That's not very expensive considering I'll have a gem from the Trick (maybe?), a hidden Topaz in Zellis, and a handful of Melenam gems.  The only other thing I buy is the Fear Sword (and maybe a final sword for Lejes if I want him to attack...it might be Doom Sword?), so money is of no concern to me this run.  Plus, I'll have all the loot from S.Brain farming.

Lux tactics are the same as everybody else.  He still needs to defend-attack to hit anything reasonably hard.

FionordeQuester

2010-08-13 03:35:36 pm

I see. Also, it's strange that the Game Mechanics guide says that, because when I had Lux at 15 and recruited Lejes for Level 16, he had the Brilliance Sword, not the Nature Sword.

FionordeQuester

Edit history:

FionordeQuester: 2010-08-13 06:18:56 pm

2010-08-13 06:08:08 pm

I just tested half of your route, and two things...

1) You do need to revive Lux in order to get to Pandam.

2) I wouldn't suggest getting the Fire Cloak if you can help it. The Magicians you'd have to fight on the way hit EXTREMELY hard. Then again, you'll also be fighting Magicians near the S. Brain grinding zone so...I don't know.

FionordeQuester

2010-08-13 09:35:10 pm

Wait, I just realized while reading your route that I was confused about when Lejes would stop leveling on S. Brains. Are you planning on stopping at Level 30 or 43?

PJ

2010-08-13 10:51:51 pm

Is PJ

Haha sorry for being so confusing.

Quote from FionordeQuester:

I see. Also, it's strange that the Game Mechanics guide says that, because when I had Lux at 15 and recruited Lejes for Level 16, he had the Brilliance Sword, not the Nature Sword.

Quote from PJ:

Just checked the Game Mechanics FAQ...apparently if he joins between levels 14 and 18, he'll have the Brilliance Sword.

Looks correct to me.

Quote from FionordeQuester:

Wait, I just realized while reading your route that I was confused about when Lejes would stop leveling on S. Brains. Are you planning on stopping at Level 30 or 43?

I have NO idea. Definitely not 43. That is the level needed to solo the entire game with Lejes. I only need to beat the present with solo Lejes. Somewhere between those levels is ideal. Maybe 35? Needs a lot of testing. Kirk and I are tossing around some boss strats to maybe make it doable at a lower level, but it's only around 6-8 minutes per level past 30 anyways.

Quote from FionordeQuester:

I just tested half of your route, and two things...

1) You do need to revive Lux in order to get to Pandam.

2) I wouldn't suggest getting the Fire Cloak if you can help it. The Magicians you'd have to fight on the way hit EXTREMELY hard. Then again, you'll also be fighting Magicians near the S. Brain grinding zone so...I don't know.

Nitrodon mentioned #1 to me earlier. That's no problem. For #2, I still don't know. I like Fire Cloak for the additional defense vs S.Brains/Defeats/Platers, and also to survive some random fire magic. On the other hand, I might be able to get by without it. Sages are always a problem, but I can generally run from Telaine backwards to Dowaine without a big issue. If I get a swarm of enemies behind me, I can do it fine, but if I get into battles I am in trouble. I really need to look into this one, too.

The primary things that need testing are the Fire Cloak dilemma, the level threshold for completing the present, practicing the level boosting glitch, and maybe some boss strats.

Haha sorry for being so confusing.

[quote="FionordeQuester"]
I see.  Also, it's strange that the Game Mechanics guide says that, because when I had Lux at 15 and recruited Lejes for Level 16, he had the Brilliance Sword, not the Nature Sword.
[/quote]

[quote="PJ"]
Just checked the Game Mechanics FAQ...apparently if he joins between levels 14 and 18, he'll have the Brilliance Sword.
[/quote]

Looks correct to me.

[quote="FionordeQuester"]
Wait, I just realized while reading your route that I was confused about when Lejes would stop leveling on S. Brains.  Are you planning on stopping at Level 30 or 43?
[/quote]

I have NO idea.  Definitely not 43.  That is the level needed to solo the entire game with Lejes.  I only need to beat the present with solo Lejes.  Somewhere between those levels is ideal.  Maybe 35?  Needs a lot of testing.  Kirk and I are tossing around some boss strats to maybe make it doable at a lower level, but it's only around 6-8 minutes per level past 30 anyways.

[quote="FionordeQuester"]
I just tested half of your route, and two things...

1) You do need to revive Lux in order to get to Pandam.

2) I wouldn't suggest getting the Fire Cloak if you can help it.  The Magicians you'd have to fight on the way hit EXTREMELY hard.  Then again, you'll also be fighting Magicians near the S. Brain grinding zone so...I don't know.
[/quote]

Nitrodon mentioned #1 to me earlier.  That's no problem.  For #2, I still don't know.  I like Fire Cloak for the additional defense vs S.Brains/Defeats/Platers, and also to survive some random fire magic.  On the other hand, I might be able to get by without it.  Sages are always a problem, but I can generally run from Telaine backwards to Dowaine without a big issue.  If I get a swarm of enemies behind me, I can do it fine, but if I get into battles I am in trouble.  I really need to look into this one, too.

The primary things that need testing are the Fire Cloak dilemma, the level threshold for completing the present, practicing the level boosting glitch, and maybe some boss strats.

FionordeQuester

2010-08-13 10:57:30 pm

Actually, now that you mention it, I recommend getting the Fire Cloak. I took on Doros at Level 33 and won (I accidently leveled 3 levels higher than necessary, sorry), but, I ended up getting all my MP drained a lot, so I think the Fire Cloak would do a lot to protect against his fire attacks.

Also, you're also going to fight enemies called Dooms that you can't run from once you get to the Ice Continent, as you cannot run from them, and they can do around 80 Damage with their fire attacks even WITH the Fire Cloak.

I'm just about to fight Gariso at Level 33 and tell you what I think.

PJ

2010-08-13 11:05:08 pm

Is PJ

Oh nice. Did you use Lux in that battle? Or F.Shield? Both of those will help tremendously. I think I can forego both Cloaks, maybe.

As for Dooms, I know their power. Even at level 44, they can crush me. I usually just power, defend, attack on them and hope for the best. They are very powerful. Sometimes I F.Shield to avoid the damage, or Light Rune if my magic is gone. But usually I just bullrush them and hope for the best.

FionordeQuester

2010-08-14 12:01:40 am

I've just defeated Gariso.

Now, all those bosses after Serpent that you mentioned. I fought every single one of them with Lejes, solo, at Level 33, with the Fire and Ice Cloaks. And yes, I used F. Shield. I didn't find F.Shield particularly helpful against Doros because of his tendency to drain my MP (by the way, use Harps on him. Even the Ring didn't fully protect me), but Monmol and Gariso were both very simple, to the point where Doros was actually a harder fight than either of them...

Yes, I just said that. Level 30 is enough for both of them, and in fact, I think you might be able to get away with lower if you don't mind having a harder time with random encounters (and if you don't mind getting the Ice Cloak for Momo. It's pretty convenient to get anyways, as it's in the Serpents castle).

Also...I didn't find Doom's to be nearly as hard as you describe them. They can be 2HKOed by a buffed Lejes, and even their Fire attacks don't do much more than 80 damage with the Fire Cloak on (I recommend it now).

I've just defeated Gariso.

Now, all those bosses after Serpent that you mentioned.  I fought every single one of them with Lejes, solo, at Level 33, with the Fire and Ice Cloaks.  And yes, I used F. Shield.  I didn't find F.Shield particularly helpful against Doros because of his tendency to drain my MP (by the way, use Harps on him.  Even the Ring didn't fully protect me), but Monmol and Gariso were both very simple, to the point where Doros was actually a harder fight than either of them...

Yes, I just said that.  Level 30 is enough for both of them, and in fact, I think you might be able to get away with lower if you don't mind having a harder time with random encounters (and if you don't mind getting the Ice Cloak for Momo.  It's pretty convenient to get anyways, as it's in the Serpents castle).

Also...I didn't find Doom's to be nearly as hard as you describe them.  They can be 2HKOed by a buffed Lejes, and even their Fire attacks don't do much more than 80 damage with the Fire Cloak on (I recommend it now).

PJ

Edit history:

PJ: 2010-08-14 12:37:18 am

2010-08-14 12:31:03 am

Is PJ

Quote from FionordeQuester:

I've just defeated Gariso.

Now, all those bosses after Serpent that you mentioned. I fought every single one of them with Lejes, solo, at Level 33, with the Fire and Ice Cloaks. And yes, I used F. Shield. I didn't find F.Shield particularly helpful against Doros because of his tendency to drain my MP (by the way, use Harps on him. Even the Ring didn't fully protect me), but Monmol and Gariso were both very simple, to the point where Doros was actually a harder fight than either of them...

Yes, I just said that. Level 30 is enough for both of them, and in fact, I think you might be able to get away with lower if you don't mind having a harder time with random encounters (and if you don't mind getting the Ice Cloak for Momo. It's pretty convenient to get anyways, as it's in the Serpents castle).

Also...I didn't find Doom's to be nearly as hard as you describe them. They can be 2HKOed by a buffed Lejes, and even their Fire attacks don't do much more than 80 damage with the Fire Cloak on (I recommend it now).

I am going to get neither Cloak in my run. I have decided that. ^_^ Kirkq helped me get a really good strategy for Doros that 'ought' to work most of the time at level 30. Basically, for every 'questionable' boss fight in the present, I plan to M Water Lux back beforehand to get a free turn. I will have enough spare ones for that to be possible. If Gariso and Monmo aren't bad, then it looks pretty good. I was concerned about damage output on Monmo, but there's no getting around that. I think I am going to plan to stop leveling on S.Brains at 29, and then kill Dragon and move on. I might be able to get by at 28 with all the encounters I fight in Bilthem usually, but 29 is safer. This should be a really good plan. I am excited to try it out once I get back to school. I'll stream my practice attempt.

As for Doom, that's why I bullrush him. He is definitely a hard fight, though. He hit me for over 80% of my health at 43/44 before. It might've been a crit, but he still has the power. His fire magic did over half of my health too. I definitely do not take him lightly. But yea, if you get a lucky dodge, you can make quick work of him.

So the main problem is now trying to level from 20/21 to 28/29 efficiently. This is the hardest range to level. S.Brains can be done reasonably well, but they are still tough. If I can gain those levels in around 1:40, I'd be very happy. VERY happy. A really great time getting to Bone is around 4:00 single-segment, so that'd put me at around 6 hours reaching Lejes' final level. In my current speed run, I reach Luze in 4:35, so that might be possible. I can do Bilthem in 9 minutes at level 43, so maybe 12 at this level (just some longer battles). Maybe 15-20 more minutes getting to Baran and killing Serpent, and then another 40 to finish the present. If I can get to the past in 8 hours, I would be amazed. That'd end the run at around 9 hours. That's fairly optimal and with some really, really ballpark figures. The ultimate goal should be sub-10 I think.

Edit: In my current run, I reached level 29 at 6:25. I think I had some pretty poor luck during the leveling process there, and previously getting to Melenam. I am confident that I can reach 29 in maybe 6:10 or 6:00 flat. We will see.

[quote="FionordeQuester"]
I've just defeated Gariso.

Now, all those bosses after Serpent that you mentioned.  I fought every single one of them with Lejes, solo, at Level 33, with the Fire and Ice Cloaks.  And yes, I used F. Shield.  I didn't find F.Shield particularly helpful against Doros because of his tendency to drain my MP (by the way, use Harps on him.  Even the Ring didn't fully protect me), but Monmol and Gariso were both very simple, to the point where Doros was actually a harder fight than either of them...

Yes, I just said that.  Level 30 is enough for both of them, and in fact, I think you might be able to get away with lower if you don't mind having a harder time with random encounters (and if you don't mind getting the Ice Cloak for Momo.  It's pretty convenient to get anyways, as it's in the Serpents castle).

Also...I didn't find Doom's to be nearly as hard as you describe them.  They can be 2HKOed by a buffed Lejes, and even their Fire attacks don't do much more than 80 damage with the Fire Cloak on (I recommend it now).
[/quote]

I am going to get neither Cloak in my run.  I have decided that.  ^_^  Kirkq helped me get a really good strategy for Doros that 'ought' to work most of the time at level 30.  Basically, for every 'questionable' boss fight in the present, I plan to M Water Lux back beforehand to get a free turn.  I will have enough spare ones for that to be possible.  If Gariso and Monmo aren't bad, then it looks pretty good.  I was concerned about damage output on Monmo, but there's no getting around that.  I think I am going to plan to stop leveling on S.Brains at 29, and then kill Dragon and move on.  I might be able to get by at 28 with all the encounters I fight in Bilthem usually, but 29 is safer.  This should be a really good plan.  I am excited to try it out once I get back to school.  I'll stream my practice attempt.

As for Doom, that's why I bullrush him.  He is definitely a hard fight, though.  He hit me for over 80% of my health at 43/44 before.  It might've been a crit, but he still has the power.  His fire magic did over half of my health too.  I definitely do not take him lightly.  But yea, if you get a lucky dodge, you can make quick work of him.

So the main problem is now trying to level from 20/21 to 28/29 efficiently.  This is the hardest range to level.  S.Brains can be done reasonably well, but they are still tough.  If I can gain those levels in around 1:40, I'd be very happy.  VERY happy.  A really great time getting to Bone is around 4:00 single-segment, so that'd put me at around 6 hours reaching Lejes' final level.  In my current speed run, I reach Luze in 4:35, so that might be possible.  I can do Bilthem in 9 minutes at level 43, so maybe 12 at this level (just some longer battles).  Maybe 15-20 more minutes getting to Baran and killing Serpent, and then another 40 to finish the present.  If I can get to the past in 8 hours, I would be amazed.  That'd end the run at around 9 hours.  That's fairly optimal and with some really, really ballpark figures.  The ultimate goal should be sub-10 I think.

Edit:  In my current run, I reached level 29 at 6:25.  I think I had some pretty poor luck during the leveling process there, and previously getting to Melenam.  I am confident that I can reach 29 in maybe 6:10 or 6:00 flat.  We will see.

FionordeQuester

Edit history:

FionordeQuester: 2010-08-14 11:26:04 am

2010-08-14 11:22:28 am

Yo, I just defeated Gorsia with Lux maxed out on stats, like you were planning, and two things....

1) The Lux Tune Up glitch can be done easily enough BUT, there's a trick to it. If you exit the room too quickly, it won't work, but it won't work if you do it too slowly. So, you have to be pretty precise. As soon as Lux starts flashing blue, you have to hold down right for two steps, then stop, then quickly press right again. I did this on an emulator, so maybe your mileage will vary, but that was the only way I could get it to work.

2) Maxing your stats on Lux is way overkill for Gorsia. He only did something like 130 damage to Lux when I did it, so, you're going to want to find something a bit more reasonable I think, and I never even used any Runes other than the Light, Wizard, and Water Runes.

PJ

2010-08-14 11:50:07 am

Is PJ

Considering the run is over 8 hours long and the tune-up only takes a few seconds (I seem to remember 14 being the number), I would much rather spend 2 extra minutes to max my stats and plow through the game than to make it just enough to kill him. I honestly think that the extra time it takes to max stats will be made up for in the ease of running from encounters, lack of needed healing during bosses, and shorter boss battles in general. And note that by "max" I really only mean max speed and magic. I will not do 999 power/guard. He'll have 255 magic and 255 speed, and then likely 300 power/guard. That's fine.

Kirkq mentioned to me about the tuneup glitch timing. I am planning on just copying my save file when I get to past Melenam so I can practice it whenever I need to. A few minutes every night, and a little bit immediately before the run will be fine. Considering how well I do with picky timing in other games (including using a 1-frame trick in Battletoads as a major form of movement), I am not concerned. I'll practice it a LOT, so I don't have an 8-9 hour failure, and it will be alright. Thanks for the warning though.

Considering the run is over 8 hours long and the tune-up only takes a few seconds (I seem to remember 14 being the number), I would much rather spend 2 extra minutes to max my stats and plow through the game than to make it just enough to kill him.  I honestly think that the extra time it takes to max stats will be made up for in the ease of running from encounters, lack of needed healing during bosses, and shorter boss battles in general.  And note that by "max" I really only mean max speed and magic.  I will not do 999 power/guard.  He'll have 255 magic and 255 speed, and then likely 300 power/guard.  That's fine.

Kirkq mentioned to me about the tuneup glitch timing.  I am planning on just copying my save file when I get to past Melenam so I can practice it whenever I need to.  A few minutes every night, and a little bit immediately before the run will be fine.  Considering how well I do with picky timing in other games (including using a 1-frame trick in Battletoads as a major form of movement), I am not concerned.  I'll practice it a LOT, so I don't have an 8-9 hour failure, and it will be alright.  Thanks for the warning though.

FionordeQuester

2010-08-14 12:56:36 pm

Oh, I thought you meant 999 Attack and Guard when you said maxing your stats. 300 is much more reasonable, so, my bad.

PJ

2010-08-14 02:02:57 pm

Is PJ

Nah, not your bad. I didn't really clarify. Poor wording on my part. ^_^

FionordeQuester

2010-08-14 02:19:15 pm

Hmm, I'm running through your route again, this time correcting the mistakes I made, but, what exactly is your plan on dealing with the Manrots, Despairs, B. Demons, and all that? I find all of them to be a danger to a Level 10 Lux, who probably doesn't have the money to max out on B. Powers and B. Protects yet.

Heck, trying to grind in the room you suggest, I can't even survive a fight with two B. Demons without using a B. Protect first. I go through healing items like mad as well. Do you just go rest up at the end after every fight? I didn't do that, because I thought that might be too innefficient, but the way I did it was somehwat costly on my Gold.

PJ

2010-08-14 02:35:58 pm

Is PJ

Hm. Level 10 Lux does get hurt there? I never remember anything threatening him until after Melenam. That does sound very typical for most characters, but I thought Lux and Wilme very different at that point.

The money note is interesting, because I will only be spending 25k during this entire run on equipment, if that. I can kill the Trick in Earth Cave for money, and pick up the hidden Topaz in Zellis to sell for Power money. Or sell some of the Melenam gems/Brown Coat for money. The deal is, at this point in the game, you absolutely HAVE to use a Power or a Protect in those battles to survive. Any character has to. In that room though, you make around 120 gold per battle, so you just barely make out even. Even if you do lose money, you can find more at this point pretty easily and it is the fastest method for leveling.

That's an issue I face every time, but I handle it pretty well now. The big issue is just getting to that cave in the first place, since Manrots just crush me dead there. With any amount of luck though, I can kill them. It will be ok though, trust me. It will be frustrating, but I can definitely handle that section.

Hm.  Level 10 Lux does get hurt there?  I never remember anything threatening him until after Melenam.  That does sound very typical for most characters, but I thought Lux and Wilme very different at that point.

The money note is interesting, because I will only be spending 25k during this entire run on equipment, if that.  I can kill the Trick in Earth Cave for money, and pick up the hidden Topaz in Zellis to sell for Power money.  Or sell some of the Melenam gems/Brown Coat for money.  The deal is, at this point in the game, you absolutely HAVE to use a Power or a Protect in those battles to survive.  Any character has to.  In that room though, you make around 120 gold per battle, so you just barely make out even.  Even if you do lose money, you can find more at this point pretty easily and it is the fastest method for leveling.

That's an issue I face every time, but I handle it pretty well now.  The big issue is just getting to that cave in the first place, since Manrots just crush me dead there.  With any amount of luck though, I can kill them.  It will be ok though, trust me.  It will be frustrating, but I can definitely handle that section.

FionordeQuester

Edit history:

FionordeQuester: 2010-08-14 02:43:45 pm

FionordeQuester: 2010-08-14 02:42:36 pm

2010-08-14 02:41:59 pm

Okey doke, but what's the plan exactly? Max out on B. Protects/Powers, rest at Bonro, then charge towards Melenam, hoping that you can get there before you run out of those? And what about Potion 1 and 2? Max out on those as well?

Also, I never thought of selling the Brown Coat. I always just replaced the old one and sold it. And yes, Lux does get damaged pretty badly by B. Demons and Manrots. Ogres, stangely enough, aren't as much of a problem (from what I remember anyways).

PJ

Edit history:

PJ: 2010-08-14 04:07:42 pm

2010-08-14 02:48:51 pm

Is PJ

Oh. Sure I'll explain item usage really quickly before I have to leave. In Lemele, I pick up the hidden mirror, both opals (chest and hidden), and antidote. Sometimes I forego the antidote, but I rather like to have it. I sell both opals in the item shop (400 gold total now), and buy 3 B Powers and 1 Potn 2. I then talk to the lady outside the shop to get a Potn 1. This basically just reserves their spot in my inventory. You never want to use the last B Power since it is so fast to access it as your first item in the list. My inventory is then Mirror-Antidote-B.Power-Potn2-Potn1. I use the two Powers on Pison and Trick. Save the last one for reserving the spot.

So I go to Rablesk and get the hidden Potn1 and PrSeed. Go die to Romus, get Whistle, kill him, etc. Level until 6 or 7. Use my money to buy B.Protects (however many I want...at least 3 though) and potions (any kind here...whatever my money allows). That's it, really. Use Power and Protect on Pison, only Power on the Trick. Maybe Protect if I feel vulnerable, but I just hope for a Petrify usually. It's early on in the run. I don't use any more Powers until after I get the Wind Rune. I stock up when I have the money. I usually have spare Protects in case I need to use one if I'm close to a key location (Melenam, Zellis, etc etc) when I fight a dangerous battle.

That's the general idea. Need to run so I may have left some stuff out. I can elaborate later if needed.

Edit: Somehow typo'd Vacuum for Petrify when I was talking about the Trick. My bad!

Oh.  Sure I'll explain item usage really quickly before I have to leave.  In Lemele, I pick up the hidden mirror, both opals (chest and hidden), and antidote.  Sometimes I forego the antidote, but I rather like to have it.  I sell both opals in the item shop (400 gold total now), and buy 3 B Powers and 1 Potn 2.  I then talk to the lady outside the shop to get a Potn 1.  This basically just reserves their spot in my inventory.  You never want to use the last B Power since it is so fast to access it as your first item in the list.  My inventory is then Mirror-Antidote-B.Power-Potn2-Potn1.  I use the two Powers on Pison and Trick.  Save the last one for reserving the spot.

So I go to Rablesk and get the hidden Potn1 and PrSeed.  Go die to Romus, get Whistle, kill him, etc.  Level until 6 or 7.  Use my money to buy B.Protects (however many I want...at least 3 though) and potions (any kind here...whatever my money allows).  That's it, really.  Use Power and Protect on Pison, only Power on the Trick.  Maybe Protect if I feel vulnerable, but I just hope for a Petrify usually.  It's early on in the run.  I don't use any more Powers until after I get the Wind Rune.  I stock up when I have the money.  I usually have spare Protects in case I need to use one if I'm close to a key location (Melenam, Zellis, etc etc) when I fight a dangerous battle.

That's the general idea.  Need to run so I may have left some stuff out.  I can elaborate later if needed.

Edit:  Somehow typo'd Vacuum for Petrify when I was talking about the Trick.  My bad!

FionordeQuester

2010-08-14 06:19:43 pm

After getting to Level 19 with Lejes, do you tend to run from all enemies, or do you actually fight them?

PJ

2010-08-14 06:26:45 pm

Is PJ

Depends who it is. I fight every encounter I get in unless it has Coccoons, Sages, or Mutants in it. I'll fight anything up until Bone, and then during the Dowaine->Telaine run or Pandam->Telaine run, I'll run from any battles with Mutants or too many Coccoons. In the cave to Luze, I generally fight (Platers are really strong there though!). Sometimes I run from a 2x Sage battle, but I try to win these battles.

FionordeQuester

2010-08-14 06:44:55 pm

What is it about Sages that are less threatening than Mutants? Maybe I just got lucky with the Mutants, but I didn't find that they could one shot you with consistency, and you could run from them easily enough, and they only appeared solo.

Also, you have to revive Lux in order to get to Pandam, but, you can just use a Magic Water to revive him, so you shouldn't have a reason that I know of to not go to Pandam.

PJ

2010-08-14 07:02:42 pm

Is PJ

Yea, I am definitely going to Pandam. I'll use the House of Healing to get him back probably, and then just let him die on the run to Telaine. I only said "Dowaine->Telaine" for completion with my response, since technically a level 19 Lejes will usually go that way. Wink

Sages are still a big threat, but they can be OHKO by a power-attack or defend-attack sometimes. Usually the former, sometimes the latter. Sages also tend to use MPCatcher a lot and their attack generally can't OHKO me. Mutants are generally similar. Their magic is KO if they hit, their physical attack is good, but not OHKO usually, they know revive, and they have a non-threatening magic spell they can use: Petrify. However, they have a lot more HP than Sages so I can't just hope to soak a hit and kill them the next turn. Also, they seem to use petrify much less frequently than Sages use MPCatcher. Even though a mirrored petrify is more useful than an MPCatcher, it is less common and still doesn't give me enough time to kill them.

As for them appearing solo, that is very untrue. They appear commonly with Coccoons, which is an instant loss. They also rarely appear in pairs in a later dungeon, but I don't remember where it is. I want to say Baran or the M.Pison cave, though. Sages also appear with Coccoons, but at least I can Power and just hope to plow through the encounter. Mutants just sit and take it.

Yea, I am definitely going to Pandam.  I'll use the House of Healing to get him back probably, and then just let him die on the run to Telaine.  I only said "Dowaine->Telaine" for completion with my response, since technically a level 19 Lejes will usually go that way.  ;)

Sages are still a big threat, but they can be OHKO by a power-attack or defend-attack sometimes.  Usually the former, sometimes the latter.  Sages also tend to use MPCatcher a lot and their attack generally can't OHKO me.  Mutants are generally similar.  Their magic is KO if they hit, their physical attack is good, but not OHKO usually, they know revive, and they have a non-threatening magic spell they can use: Petrify.  However, they have a lot more HP than Sages so I can't just hope to soak a hit and kill them the next turn.  Also, they seem to use petrify much less frequently than Sages use MPCatcher.  Even though a mirrored petrify is more useful than an MPCatcher, it is less common and still doesn't give me enough time to kill them.

As for them appearing solo, that is very untrue.  They appear commonly with Coccoons, which is an instant loss.  They also rarely appear in pairs in a later dungeon, but I don't remember where it is.  I want to say Baran or the M.Pison cave, though.  Sages also appear with Coccoons, but at least I can Power and just hope to plow through the encounter.  Mutants just sit and take it.

FionordeQuester

2010-08-14 07:08:59 pm

Oh, whoops. My mistake. Is there anything else you're unsure of that I can test?

FionordeQuester

2010-08-14 08:41:41 pm

By the way, I think I might know the solution to the S. Brains and Sages. They both only have 50 Resistance to Petrify (if I'm reading the Game Mechanics Faq right), so, if you say, run into two Sages, try Petrify on one of them, and that might make S. Brain's easier as well.

PJ

2010-08-14 08:43:44 pm

Is PJ

Not really. I feel great about my route. The only thing I'm concerned about is the time it takes to level against S.Brains. It's always rough leveling from 21-30, but there's no way around it. I know of no better place, besides just fighting Titans and S.Witches by Bone or something. I just need good luck against the S.Brains during my run to get a good time there.

Does anybody have any other options for leveling in this part? S.Brains are the highest exp enemies and normally come solo; Ring lets me evade Vacuum and I can normally survive their attacks, but it's just slow. And if I don't fight an S.Brain I am usually dead since I can't beat the 2x Coccoon battles there. They seem to be the best. Bone is consistent exp, but much slower.

Just saw your new post. That's an interesting idea. S.Brains are OK alone, so it won't help there, but I may try it on a 2x Sage battle.