Age Of Empires 2 Speed Run

Edit history:

Gombill: 2010-11-17 02:53:04 am

2010-11-17 02:40:16 am

New run and video, Saladin 4 in 8:33 < 9:11 (slightly beating goal).

Basically used the same strategy as before (for those of you that saw the filefront video), but just executed much better. I also discovered a few tricks to make some parts of the run go smoother with less chance of error. In particular, the ram pathing near the final tower is just the worst you could possibly imagine. The thing that makes it so bad is there is an enemy castle towering right where you'd like to be clicking with your rams, so clicking there attacks the castle instead of moving behind it.

I've also been slowly working on the Saladin 6 run without wonder. I have a failed practice run from a few days ago, but I've tried repeatedly to upload it with no success. The practice run was with marco/polo. It basically destroyed 4 of the 5 enemies in about 24 minutes or so, but the red british who I left for last proved to be incredibly annoying. My next attempt will probably take them out first before they can get going. The longbowmen and scorpions in particular just make life miserable.

EDIT: Appears as though there may be a limit of 20 total attachments (the attach button doesn't even show up for me any more). So I might have to do some consolidation of runs (combine 2 into 1, like I did with the WW missions) in order to get all of them on here at once.

New run and video, Saladin 4 in 8:33 < 9:11 (slightly beating goal).

Basically used the same strategy as before (for those of you that saw the filefront video), but just executed much better.  I also discovered a few tricks to make some parts of the run go smoother with less chance of error.  In particular, the ram pathing near the final tower is just the worst you could possibly imagine.  The thing that makes it so bad is there is an enemy castle towering right where you'd like to be clicking with your rams, so clicking there attacks the castle instead of moving behind it.

I've also been slowly working on the Saladin 6 run without wonder.  I have a failed practice run from a few days ago, but I've tried repeatedly to upload it with no success.  The practice run was with marco/polo.  It basically destroyed 4 of the 5 enemies in about 24 minutes or so, but the red british who I left for last proved to be incredibly annoying.  My next attempt will probably take them out first before they can get going.  The longbowmen and scorpions in particular just make life miserable.

EDIT:  Appears as though there may be a limit of 20 total attachments (the attach button doesn't even show up for me any more).  So I might have to do some consolidation of runs (combine 2 into 1, like I did with the WW missions) in order to get all of them on here at once.

Attachment:

SAL4_833_LQ.mp4

gia

Edit history:

gia: 2010-11-17 07:32:24 pm

2010-11-17 06:19:57 pm

I love YaBB 1G - SP1!

just get youtube/filefront?

On SAL4, if you still want to improve some seconds. IIRC Extra villagers have diminishing returns on build speed, as such it would be best to build each Siege Workshop with two villagers, and then use all four to complete the Market. To lose little time with the Workshops build orders as soon as they pop you'd be waiting with the shortcuts ready, Ctrl+K,R,Ctrl+K,R,5,B,M and then place the Market.

Using the whole army as a decoy versus the first cannon tower seems bad specially after seeing they are more required versus the orange castle which has better aim. Just use your fastest unit versus the tower and keep the rest of the army safe.

13013

(user is banned)

2010-12-01 01:58:37 pm

Yes Mario Riding A Pole

Just saying there is no WW5, WW7, JOAN2, SAL1, SAL5, GK4, & BARB2 so what i think imo is that you should get videos on those first and post them before worrying about the others

Gombill

2011-01-03 11:36:19 am

Nearly back from a school-induced break, but I'm excited to start putting some new runs up here at about the middle of next week. At that time I will also do some work on the remaining runs that don't have videos up and just put the remaining ones on as well to satisfy 13013.

In particular the first ones to tackle once I am back in business will probably be WW5, SAL1, GK4, and SAL6. I still don't have a great strategy for dealing with the british longbowmen and scorpions in SAL6. I remember in one of my practice runs I was able to kill red in about 10-15 minutes, but it took nearly all of my attention and most of my troops, and by that time the other civs will have developed enough to become a nuisance. Not only this, but I remember that strategy depending on camping a red lumber camp that gets built in a random location, and only one of the locations works. It would be annoying to have 75% of runs ended by bad luck, but if that's what it must be... A practice run (most likely failed practice run) will be up soon so you can see what I'm talking about.

I want to try to make a strong push to get everything finalized for an initial submission in the next few months. My primary goal with doing this was to try to drum up some interest for others to get involved and split up the work so we can get some really optimized times. I've failed in this so far, but maybe after the run is submitted it would gather more interest as well. I'm surprised Gia at least hasn't submitted a few improvements with all the helpful advice he has for these runs so far.

Nearly back from a school-induced break, but I'm excited to start putting some new runs up here at about the middle of next week.  At that time I will also do some work on the remaining runs that don't have videos up and just put the remaining ones on as well to satisfy 13013.

In particular the first ones to tackle once I am back in business will probably be WW5, SAL1, GK4, and SAL6.  I still don't have a great strategy for dealing with the british longbowmen and scorpions in SAL6.  I remember in one of my practice runs I was able to kill red in about 10-15 minutes, but it took nearly all of my attention and most of my troops, and by that time the other civs will have developed enough to become a nuisance.  Not only this, but I remember that strategy depending on camping a red lumber camp that gets built in a random location, and only one of the locations works.  It would be annoying to have 75% of runs ended by bad luck, but if that's what it must be...  A practice run (most likely failed practice run) will be up soon so you can see what I'm talking about.

I want to try to make a strong push to get everything finalized for an initial submission in the next few months.  My primary goal with doing this was to try to drum up some interest for others to get involved and split up the work so we can get some really optimized times.  I've failed in this so far, but maybe after the run is submitted it would gather more interest as well.  I'm surprised Gia at least hasn't submitted a few improvements with all the helpful advice he has for these runs so far.

LeWoVoc

2011-01-05 08:35:38 am

I've recently been getting really into some AoE2. I'll see what I can do once my new keyboard gets here. It's due on the 12th. Is there anything in particular you'd want me to work on? Perhaps so our work doesn't overlap too much to start?

Gombill

2011-01-05 01:06:14 pm

Feel free to work on whichever ones you'd like, I recommend choosing ones that interest you the most. Just let me know which ones you want to give a shot and I'll work on other ones for the time. I also recommend focusing on the ones that have a stated goal of mine on the front page of this topic. The ones without a stated goal for the most part have already been optimized, so I will only come back to them if I still feel like it after all the rest have been done.

If you choose to improve a run which has a video, I may already have some ideas for how I was going to improve the time, so let me know and I'll tell you everything I know about it. Also on some missions I have not fully explored the possible strategies so there could very well be something completely different from my video that is much better.

Probably the one I need the most strategic assistance on is Saladin 6. Once again, I will post a video in about a week of my current strategy (which doesn't quite work).

Gombill

2011-01-27 02:45:35 pm

LeWoVoc, have your new keyboard yet?

I've been playing more Starcraft 2 and some Quake 2. Someone convinced me to join some SC2 leagues and I've been doing surprisingly well (beat a Diamond player in 1v1 two days ago). So that is my excuse for not posting here for a while. That, and I'm still not looking forward to Saladin 6. One thing I can say for sure, playing SC2 competitively has sure been helping my micro and group management! Hopefully that will cross over.

Blumenriecher

2011-01-27 03:58:54 pm

E=mc²

Dude, how can you do these awesome AoE speedruns and not be on the top of the Sc2 ladder?
Anyways, just wanted to say I´m looking forward to this, because I´m also a AoE fan (even tho I play Sc2 most of the time). If it isn´t something too difficult I am willing to help with some stuff, but I am basically horrible at this game(you have been warned). Sorry, I don´t have anything useful to add, simply motivation/support post. Gogo!

Are you playing Sc2 on EU or US servers?

Gombill

2011-01-27 07:30:53 pm

It's pretty simple. #1, I would not say I've ever been "pro" at an RTS game. I am very good at being given a situation against a predictable AI, thinking it out over a few days, coming up with a step by step strategy, and going to town with it by practicing. I am not good at scouting an unpredictable opponent, devising my strategy to counter theirs, and microing to the ends of the earth, which is what you need to play good ladder Starcraft (or any RTS competitively). I top out at about 60 average APM in SC2 and probably underutilize hotkeys and control groups. Gia has mentioned before in this topic that I need work with setting and using control groups, and he's absolutely right.

And #2, well, inexperience. I've played aoe2 for 12 years. sc2 for about 2 months of actual playing time, and only 10 days of that competitively. I still don't even know what all the units do yet Sad

LeWoVoc

2011-01-27 08:27:30 pm

I have my new keyboard, and I am trying my best to practice for these speedruns, but I'm finding it hard to shift from my usual competitive play into speedrun hax tactics while simultaneously juggling college and a girlfriend. (on neither account do I complain) It's slow going, but I'm getting there.

Also, I guess I can expect to see you in a few games when I buy SC2 in early-mid February?

Gombill

Edit history:

Gombill: 2011-05-18 03:42:16 pm

2011-05-18 03:40:57 pm

OK, time to resurrect this old thing.

I am finally back for some more AOE2 running, and I am pleasantly surprised that my SC2 play has significantly impacted my AOE2 micro/macro in a good way. I used lots of control groups in SC2 so I am quite used to using them all the time now. This will help on some of the longer missions I was putting off before. My APM has also increased significantly, and overall I just feel much more fast and alert.

So for now I will probably be easing into things with some finishing touches on some of the shorter missions (WW5, WW7, JOA2, etc.) fit in between 120 star runs of Mario 64. After many of the shorter ones are finished I will hit the longer, harder base building missions. I am excited about some missions because the break has allowed me some time to take a step back and look at each mission with a fresh mind again. I have some nice ideas for improvements coming up.

Once again, help on this run would be appreciated! Just ask and I'll tell you which missions need help.

For those who were not around a year ago, there is a mission table on the first page of this topic, with uploaded videos for most of the missions.

This will be completed and submitted by the end of the summer!

Also I will start thinking about Conquerors runs. Maybe a new topic can be started. I have only a few runs done there at the moment, and most runs haven't even begun planning yet. If you want to pick this game up, that may be a good place to start.

OK, time to resurrect this old thing.

I am finally back for some more AOE2 running, and I am pleasantly surprised that my SC2 play has significantly impacted my AOE2 micro/macro in a good way.  I used lots of control groups in SC2 so I am quite used to using them all the time now.  This will help on some of the longer missions I was putting off before.  My APM has also increased significantly, and overall I just feel much more fast and alert.

So for now I will probably be easing into things with some finishing touches on some of the shorter missions (WW5, WW7, JOA2, etc.) fit in between 120 star runs of Mario 64.  After many of the shorter ones are finished I will hit the longer, harder base building missions.  I am excited about some missions because the break has allowed me some time to take a step back and look at each mission with a fresh mind again.  I have some nice ideas for improvements coming up.

Once again, help on this run would be appreciated!  Just ask and I'll tell you which missions need help.

For those who were not around a year ago, there is a mission table on the first page of this topic, with uploaded videos for most of the missions.

This will be completed and submitted by the end of the summer!

Also I will start thinking about Conquerors runs.  Maybe a new topic can be started.  I have only a few runs done there at the moment, and most runs haven't even begun planning yet.  If you want to pick this game up, that may be a good place to start.

gia

Edit history:

gia: 2011-05-18 11:14:15 pm

2011-05-18 11:13:52 pm

I love YaBB 1G - SP1!

I guess I'd help If I had the original game at hand, but you can always post, maybe I feel like loading ebay Tongue

bmn

2011-05-27 03:33:24 am

Hory ballz I forgot it was you doing this Gombill. You make-a-me happy.

Gombill

2011-12-05 06:35:36 pm

So as it turns out my summer was mostly consumed with other things, including the SM64 marathon run. In fact, in a very sad story, I've made very negative progress on this run. In August I lost my portable hard drive that had all the raw aoe2 files on it and it killed all of my motivation to proceed. So I'm basically starting from (almost) scratch again.

The good news is, I uploaded most of the compressed files here, so I downloaded them all to server as guides and have started the long process of recreating them. I have 15 levels completed again, most of them a tiny bit slower than before at the moment, but some of them faster. The best improvement was JOA6, for which I now have 6:55 < 7:21.

Not sure what I want to do with the front page with all the times yet. At the very least the old times I used to have will become the new "goal" times. I still have yet to do some of the troublesome levels Ive mentioned in previous posts, but after the long break I have some fresh ideas.

So as it turns out my summer was mostly consumed with other things, including the SM64 marathon run.  In fact, in a very sad story, I've made very negative progress on this run.  In August I lost my portable hard drive that had all the raw aoe2 files on it and it killed all of my motivation to proceed.  So I'm basically starting from (almost) scratch again.

The good news is, I uploaded most of the compressed files here, so I downloaded them all to server as guides and have started the long process of recreating them.  I have 15 levels completed again, most of them a tiny bit slower than before at the moment, but some of them faster.  The best improvement was JOA6, for which I now have 6:55 < 7:21.

Not sure what I want to do with the front page with all the times yet.  At the very least the old times I used to have will become the new "goal" times.  I still have yet to do some of the troublesome levels Ive mentioned in previous posts, but after the long break I have some fresh ideas.

Freezard

2011-12-05 06:56:36 pm

I'd love to see this game on SDA. To be honest it's the only entry in the series I've never really played... but well, the more RTS the better. It can't be much different from the other AoE games Smiley

Gombill

Edit history:

Gombill: 2011-12-06 03:44:16 am

2011-12-06 03:42:44 am

Worked in another huge improvement tonight, JOA3 20:40 < 21:19. It seems coming back to these missions I did a long time ago is really paying off. Nothing really was changed in terms of my strategy, I just put more attention this time into the things in the mission that really needed to get done first.

Any interest in updated WIP videos and getting a complete set of them available?

Orgelpeter

2011-12-06 03:50:30 am

Interest? Sure there is. I would love to see your new videos. Wink

Although I am too bad at this game to give you any helpful advices.

Gombill

2011-12-06 03:55:37 am

BTW Page 1 with the mission table is now updated as to the current situation. As you can see there is a lot of work to do from the number of missions left to get finalized (or completed at all).

ExplodingCabbage

2011-12-06 04:19:58 am

I'm interested. Smiley

Sad to hear you lost your existing recordings but hopefully it's an excuse to make everything faster!

ridd3r.

2011-12-06 12:52:36 pm

we have lift off

Quote from ExplodingCabbage:

I'm interested. Smiley

Sad to hear you lost your existing recordings but hopefully it's an excuse to make everything faster!

This.

Even if you're really experienced with a game, the initial levels never end up being as optimised as the ones later on in the run when you're really into it. Often finding an improvement early on can end up being a blessing in disguise as you'll be able to improve your times.

Gombill

2011-12-06 06:48:43 pm

OK, Here's the new videos I mentioned in the previous updates:

JOA3 in 20:40
JOA6 in 6:55

JOA6 I think can be 10 seconds faster maximum. JOA3 is pretty much perfect barring an entirely different strategy for something.

Attachments:

JOA3_2040_LQ.mp4

JOA6_655_LQ.mp4

Gombill

2011-12-06 07:03:19 pm

Oh, and here's Barbarossa 2 as a bonus. You will see why I have not included it before, it's a pretty dumb mission.

BARB2 in 6:40

BARB2 is a fixed time mission doing it this way. For those that didnt see the discussion about BARB2 earlier, killing your green ally always makes poland resign at 6:40 or 6:41 if you're unlucky. Destroying all of his structures is unnecessary but I do it just to pass the time.

Attachment:

BARB2_640_LQ.mp4

ExplodingCabbage

2011-12-07 04:45:14 am

I watched JoA3, and my immediate thought was:

Over half of your time and a major proportion of your total resources are spent building up an economy that can sustain ram production and then advancing to the Castle Age to get rams.

An obvious possibility to consider for improving the level is therefore to beat it in the feudal age, relying on Men-at-Arms to destroy the castle instead of rams.

I leave it to you to test whether this is viable and whether it's faster than the ram strategy.

Gombill

Edit history:

Gombill: 2011-12-07 05:17:17 pm

2011-12-07 04:55:39 pm

Cabbage, the trickiest part is that the third castle (in this case, the left-most one) has nowhere on the wall that I can attack with foot soldiers without getting hit by the castle. I do not remember from testing, but I don't think he trains any early units from this fortification either so I can't get him to let me through the gate. The only way would be to open it up with archers, but you can see from the upper base that it takes so long to destroy walls with archers that it's not worth it in the end.

Also it should be noted that castles have a huge amount of armor (10 I think) so really La Hire and Joan are the only ones that seriously faze them, every unit doing less than 10 damage does 1 damage per hit to castles.

I did remember an improvement I could have made that I've done in other missions. I could have started the tower about 20% done and then deleted it once it did its work of luring villagers, getting most of the stone back and maybe being able to market trade with it.

I will look into Feudal Age JOA3 again though. The first thing I will test is how long it takes 6-8 men at arms to take down a castle by themselves.

EDIT: Just checked it in the game. Castles have 8 armor. You start with enough units basically to do about 45 damage per hit after taking armor into account. Dealing 15 damage per hit to a castle takes it down in about 14 minutes. I also discovered that the far right castle that I never attack in the above video is possible to access by destroying a wall piece that is too far away for the castle to guard. However, two of the three castles would need a wall piece destroyed first, which is an extra 4 1/2 minutes at 15 damage per hit.

In the end it would take at least 18 1/2 minutes from when your units arrive at the fortifications, with your starting troops. Might be able to bring this down slightly by getting blacksmith forging upgrade, but I think training more troops would make a very small difference.

Cabbage,  the trickiest part is that the third castle (in this case, the left-most one) has nowhere on the wall that I can attack with foot soldiers without getting hit by the castle.  I do not remember from testing, but I don't think he trains any early units from this fortification either so I can't get him to let me through the gate.  The only way would be to open it up with archers, but you can see from the upper base that it takes so long to destroy walls with archers that it's not worth it in the end.

Also it should be noted that castles have a huge amount of armor (10 I think) so really La Hire and Joan are the only ones that seriously faze them, every unit doing less than 10 damage does 1 damage per hit to castles.

I did remember an improvement I could have made that I've done in other missions.  I could have started the tower about 20% done and then deleted it once it did its work of luring villagers, getting most of the stone back and maybe being able to market trade with it.

I will look into Feudal Age JOA3 again though.  The first thing I will test is how long it takes 6-8 men at arms to take down a castle by themselves.

EDIT:  Just checked it in the game.  Castles have 8 armor.  You start with enough units basically to do about 45 damage per hit after taking armor into account.  Dealing 15 damage per hit to a castle takes it down in about 14 minutes.  I also discovered that the far right castle that I never attack in the above video is possible to access by destroying a wall piece that is too far away for the castle to guard.  However, two of the three castles would need a wall piece destroyed first, which is an extra 4 1/2 minutes at 15 damage per hit.

In the end it would take at least 18 1/2 minutes from when your units arrive at the fortifications, with your starting troops.  Might be able to bring this down slightly by getting blacksmith forging upgrade, but I think training more troops would make a very small difference.

Gombill

Edit history:

Gombill: 2011-12-07 07:42:11 pm

Gombill: 2011-12-07 07:32:05 pm

2011-12-07 07:27:35 pm

Another new idea for a mission pays off bigtime!

Barb5 in 8:54 < 10:43

This was just a rough idea as well, only took a few tries to get this. Can easily be improved by 20-25 seconds by not having the monks keep turning back, hitting the correct tree on the first treb volley, etc. Just thought you'd want to see the new stuff.

For comparison the old strat broke into blue's town and won the transport ships legit.

The only way I see improving the strat any further is by taking a more direct route from the shoreline to the tree to destroy. This would involve luring away a bunch of units and going through the fire of 4 bombard cannons. Not sure yet if this is going to work.

As another bonus, this improvement brings the "goal" time for the complete game under 5 hours game time!

Attachment:

BARB5_854_LQ.mp4