Winter 2015 SNES Final Fantasy Relay - March 7th, 2015 (VODs available)

Drifting Skies

Edit history:

Drifting Skies: 2015-03-08 09:02:14 pm

2015-03-08 09:00:37 pm

steak Steak STEAK!!!

Quote from Deln:

Quote from Drifting Skies:

Quote from Jenja:

Ok, this one is difficult to explain objectively without hurting anyone's pride, so if anyone feels offended by this, please consider this as constructive criticism and in no way personal. First of all I wanna say that I think the commentary was good. Especially FF5 I thought was way better than last years, maybe this was also due to us making sure to have a better focus on this one. There were however some parts that I think went not so good. One big thing that I noticed was Off Topic Talk and "Jokes-only-insiders-can-understand". In my opinion this was a big issue this time, as (without picking anyone out individually) I felt the commentary went Off Topic way too often and way too far. While it is fine to have some talk about other stuff, it should still be somewhat related to FF/Twitch/Speedruns/Runners. Nevertheless I did notice that at parts commentary was completely Off Topic for more than 10 consecutive minutes multiple times, which is not really helpful.
The same goes with the "Inside Jokes". I know we have a lot of jokes or puns that are related to the Final Fantasy Community, but for a normal viewer these things are neither funny or interesting, but rather confusing. Once again I think having these at some parts is totally fine, but I felt like it was just too much at some parts.

As a viewer for the first half of the run, I wholeheartedly agree with this. I ended up just quitting watching the stream altogether about 3 hours into FFV because the commentary and Twitch chat had devolved into meme-spamming and inside jokes and I couldn't even get a simple question answered about what the time differential was at the moment (although I'm still not sure if that's because I got chat-banned, I wasn't connected properly, or I was just being ignored wholesale) At that point, and after not getting a response five or six times either by chat or by the commentators, I sort of took as given that my questions and presence weren't wanted in the stream, and so I up and left to do other stuff.

sometime its pretty hard to get an answer, but i know that the chat died at some point(nobody would be talking for a while), other than that i can assure you that none of the runners had chat up for obvious reasons, as for commentators.... i dont think it was their fault, but this is a thing that can be improved

I wouldn't expect the runners to be answering questions in chat, and I'm certainly not here to assign blame or anything. With that said, I think that part of the problem is that 5 is less well known than 4 or 6 among the broader video game audience. From what I could tell in the commentary, there's some step count manipulation route through the run or something, but while I could follow along with the runners thanks to the commentary as well as my personal experience on FFIV, I really didn't understand much of what was going on in 5. I think it would be helpful for those who specifically aren't part of the SNES Final Fantasy Speedrun community to have a broader sense of what is going on in the run. It seemed like a lot of the commentators were taking as given that the audience has at least passing familiarity with the game and the route, when, at least in my case, I think that was my first time ever watching a run of Final Fantasy V, let alone trying to follow along with the routing and the glitches being used. I think the fact that I have played FFIV (at least the DS version) gave me some insight so I could follow what was going on in that game, but having no experience with FFV meant that a lot of the commentary went above my head.

I feel it would be helpful and draw/engage a broader audience if commentary would be directed less toward FF speedrunners and more toward a lay audience.

[quote="Deln"][quote="Drifting Skies"][quote="Jenja"]
Ok, this one is difficult to explain objectively without hurting anyone's pride, so if anyone feels offended by this, please consider this as constructive criticism and in no way personal. First of all I wanna say that I think the commentary was good. Especially FF5 I thought was way better than last years, maybe this was also due to us making sure to have a better focus on this one. There were however some parts that I think went not so good. One big thing that I noticed was Off Topic Talk and "Jokes-only-insiders-can-understand". In my opinion this was a big issue this time, as (without picking anyone out individually) I felt the commentary went Off Topic way too often and way too far. While it is fine to have some talk about other stuff, it should still be somewhat related to FF/Twitch/Speedruns/Runners. Nevertheless I did notice that at parts commentary was completely Off Topic for more than 10 consecutive minutes multiple times, which is not really helpful. 
The same goes with the "Inside Jokes". I know we have a lot of jokes or puns that are related to the Final Fantasy Community, but for a normal viewer these things are neither funny or interesting, but rather confusing. Once again I think having these at some parts is totally fine, but I felt like it was just too much at some parts.[/quote]

As a viewer for the first half of the run, I wholeheartedly agree with this.  I ended up just quitting watching the stream altogether about 3 hours into FFV because the commentary and Twitch chat had devolved into meme-spamming and inside jokes and I couldn't even get a simple question answered about what the time differential was at the moment (although I'm still not sure if that's because I got chat-banned, I wasn't connected properly, or I was just being ignored wholesale) At that point, and after not getting a response five or six times either by chat or by the commentators, I sort of took as given that my questions and presence weren't wanted in the stream, and so I up and left to do other stuff.
[/quote]

sometime its pretty hard to get an answer, but i know that the chat died at some point(nobody would be talking for a while), other than that i can assure you that none of the runners had chat up for obvious reasons, as for commentators.... i dont think it was their fault, but this is a thing that can be improved[/quote]

I wouldn't expect the runners to be answering questions in chat, and I'm certainly not here to assign blame or anything.  With that said, I think that part of the problem is that 5 is less well known than 4 or 6 among the broader video game audience.  From what I could tell in the commentary, there's some step count manipulation route through the run or something, but while I could follow along with the runners thanks to the commentary as well as my personal experience on FFIV, I really didn't understand much of what was going on in 5.  I think it would be helpful for those who specifically aren't part of the SNES Final Fantasy Speedrun community to have a broader sense of what is going on in the run.  It seemed like a lot of the commentators were taking as given that the audience has at least passing familiarity with the game and the route, when, at least in my case, I think that was my first time ever watching a run of Final Fantasy V, let alone trying to follow along with the routing and the glitches being used.  I think the fact that I have played FFIV (at least the DS version) gave me some insight so I could follow what was going on in that game, but having no experience with FFV meant that a lot of the commentary went above my head.

I feel it would be helpful and draw/engage a broader audience if commentary would be directed less toward FF speedrunners and more toward a lay audience.

gyre

2015-03-08 11:54:59 pm

I was planning to wait a while for feedback but seems like it's starting immediately.

Games and Runners

I heard some complaints about repetition but I don't see it as a major problem yet. Most of the stream watchers seemed to be there for the first time or at least new enough that it was still a fresh experience. As long as the event keeps growing, I'd expect that to continue to remain true. I think having a variety of categories for the games would be enough if people are interested in seeing changes.

I like the idea of keeping the champions together and would like to see them get a crown or something in the layout graphics as bragging rights for the next race.

Commentary and Music

This felt like the weak point of the event. I thought the commentary was generally not helpful for viewers to understand the runs. These games are fairly complex and harder to follow than action games. It didn't seem like there was much explanation of the strategy to explain the runs or promote speedrunning of the games. I didn't mind the music but would have preferred hearing game sound from one of the teams. The joke commentary was frankly annoying to the point where I turned off the stream for a while and kept it muted when I came back.

FF4 started too early for me to catch so this is based on FF5 and FF6 commentary.

Organization

I strongly agree with turning bonus game voting over to be 100% by the viewers. The current system is just a setup for speedrun drama. Staff already has plenty of editorial control by selecting what games are eligible to vote on. It didn't feel like there were any bad choices in the list.

Using the Limit Break channel worked great and I didn't have any problems with the layout or graphics.

I'm with Deuce in wanting to use RTA timing for the race. During FF6 it was confusing to figure out what the relative gap was between the teams. It would be way easier to understand if what you saw was what you got. If there are concerns about uneven setup time I think it would be better to have a minimum hold for the switch (e.g., you have to wait 5 minutes to start) rather than making it untimed.

I was planning to wait a while for feedback but seems like it's starting immediately.

[b]Games and Runners[/b]

I heard some complaints about repetition but I don't see it as a major problem yet.  Most of the stream watchers seemed to be there for the first time or at least new enough that it was still a fresh experience.  As long as the event keeps growing, I'd expect that to continue to remain true.  I think having a variety of categories for the games would be enough if people are interested in seeing changes.

I like the idea of keeping the champions together and would like to see them get a crown or something in the layout graphics as bragging rights for the next race.

[b]Commentary and Music[/b]

This felt like the weak point of the event.  I thought the commentary was generally not helpful for viewers to understand the runs.  These games are fairly complex and harder to follow than action games.  It didn't seem like there was much explanation of the strategy to explain the runs or promote speedrunning of the games.  I didn't mind the music but would have preferred hearing game sound from one of the teams.  The joke commentary was frankly annoying to the point where I turned off the stream for a while and kept it muted when I came back.

FF4 started too early for me to catch so this is based on FF5 and FF6 commentary.

[b]Organization[/b]

I strongly agree with turning bonus game voting over to be 100% by the viewers.  The current system is just a setup for speedrun drama.  Staff already has plenty of editorial control by selecting what games are eligible to vote on.  It didn't feel like there were any bad choices in the list.

Using the Limit Break channel worked great and I didn't have any problems with the layout or graphics.

I'm with Deuce in wanting to use RTA timing for the race.  During FF6 it was confusing to figure out what the relative gap was between the teams.  It would be way easier to understand if what you saw was what you got.  If there are concerns about uneven setup time I think it would be better to have a minimum hold for the switch (e.g., you have to wait 5 minutes to start) rather than making it untimed.

Melodia

2015-03-09 12:30:48 am

Ok....I'm coming from an angle of someone who hasn't run RPGs (well not really) but does watch and participate in IRC. Take that what you will.
I also didn't watch the FFV segment.

-I don't remember much of the inside joke stuff people are complaining about, outside of one specific case where the joke was explained when they got to the point in the run.

-I thought the commentary was pretty good from the point of view of someone who already knew the games (IV and VI) extremely well. I guess I could see maybe someone who didn't know their intricasies having a harder time following along, but IMO commentary in something like this should at the least assume those watching will have played the game. Maybe it's just hard for me to gauge since I know both games so well (on top of having watched many runs of both) but at the least most of the major tricks were described fine -- again it DID assume people played the games, but certainly pretty much everyone watching should have at least a passing familiarity with FF as a whole.

-People talking about backround noises, etc from the runners. I have to boggle at these complaints. It was very rare that that ever seemed to be an issue of any sort. The issue with figuring out who was talking is much bigger though. The issue with few-seconds-ahead-spoilers was also an issue, yes. Cutting out the runners completely seems a bit odd though. Not sure how to handle this frankly.

-Music. I'm very torn on this one. GDQ races have one game's audio and it always makes me learn toward watching that one, which skews the interest, as it were. Certainly if this were done it should be shifted around (like change every tenminutes in clockwise order or something). Having the OST does kinda make it seem 'off' and having remixes is a bit better, but perhaps instead having perhaps a random FF playlist (maybe Uematsu only if you wanna be 'pure') that doesn't include the current game? Would allow for more remixes too, not just OCRemix and only the occasional something else. I especially didn't like the MQ OST on repeat for the run today, just made it kinda meh.

-I do agree that the issue with the bonus game should have been better noted. Wouldn't be difficult to add ('poll counts for 1/4 the total votes') or something of that nature to the little bot blurb.

-Layout was fine, no issues there. I also thought using the RPGLB channel was a great neutral spot for it instead of just one someone's personal channel.

Ok....I'm coming from an angle of someone who hasn't run RPGs (well not really) but does watch and participate in IRC. Take that what you will.
I also didn't watch the FFV segment.

-I don't remember much of the inside joke stuff people are complaining about, outside of one specific case where the joke was explained when they got to the point in the run.

-I thought the commentary was pretty good from the point of view of someone who already knew the games (IV and VI) extremely well. I guess I could see maybe someone who didn't know their intricasies having a harder time following along, but IMO commentary in something like this should at the least assume those watching will have played the game. Maybe it's just hard for me to gauge since I know both games so well (on top of having watched many runs of both) but at the least most of the major tricks were described fine -- again it DID assume people played the games, but certainly pretty much everyone watching should have at least a passing familiarity with FF as a whole.

-People talking about backround noises, etc from the runners. I have to boggle at these complaints. It was very rare that that ever seemed to be an issue of any sort. The issue with figuring out who was talking is much bigger though. The issue with few-seconds-ahead-spoilers was also an issue, yes. Cutting out the runners completely seems a bit odd though. Not sure how to handle this frankly.

-Music. I'm very torn on this one. GDQ races have one game's audio and it always makes me learn toward watching that one,  which skews the interest, as it were. Certainly if this were done it should be shifted around (like change every tenminutes in clockwise order or something). Having the OST does kinda make it seem 'off' and having remixes is a bit better, but perhaps instead having perhaps a random FF playlist (maybe Uematsu only if you wanna be 'pure') that doesn't include the current game? Would allow for more remixes too, not just OCRemix and only the occasional something else. I especially didn't like the MQ OST on repeat for the run today, just made it kinda meh.

-I do agree that the issue with the bonus game should have been better noted. Wouldn't be difficult to add ('poll counts for 1/4 the total votes') or something of that nature to the little bot blurb.

-Layout was fine, no issues there. I also thought using the RPGLB channel was a great neutral spot for it instead of just one someone's personal channel.

puwexil

Edit history:

puwexil: 2015-03-12 02:25:54 pm

2015-03-12 02:15:20 pm

Professional Second Banana

VODs for the relay + Mystic Quest bonus race are up at https://www.youtube.com/playlist?list=PLxmuedQTLk91yCbPxctNduCztd4BcWj-x.

Great feedback all around. Here's my thoughts:

Games/Runners:
Agreed that the games/categories work great, both for finding runners and making sense together in a relay format. Was great to see 6 new runners in the relay this time; but I also definitely sensed some fatigue from the runners that had been in 2 or all 3 relays. eLmaGus is right that 6 months is a long time, but when you consider planning time it's more like 3 months after a relay before runners need to start signing up for the next one so we can look for a date.

I'd be on board with scaling back to 1 SNES FF relay a year to make it a more special/hype event and avoid burnout (and have relays/marathons of other RPG series on the RPGLB channel), though if enough runners (especially 5/6 runners) want to keep 2/year and I can get some help with organization/promotion, I'm fine with that.

Audio:
Pretty torn on this one. Definitely agree that the commentators should be doing most of the talking, and that runners shouldn't have to be on the call if they don't want to be; but not allowing any runners on the call is something I wouldn't like if I were running (I really like getting to chat with my speedrun friends during events like this, which makes it more special than just doing a run from home like I do weekly). We can revisit this next time and see what the next group of runners think about it.

Using game audio instead of music playlists is something I get frequent requests for. I've been leery of that because just playing 1 runner's audio for the full run naturally draws viewer focus to them at the expense of the other 3 (watch the FF5 part of the Winter 2014 relay and you'll see what I mean), and switching audio between runners increases setup complexity all around. Runners would have to be set up for direct game audio (I know there's a couple that currently just use 1 mic for everything in their normal setup), and either not join or listen to the Skype call (so it doesn't clash with the call audio on the restream), figure out a way to exclude it from their broadcast, or use a different PC/phone for Skype.

If we can figure out a setup that everyone's comfortable/happy with, I'm willing to give actual game audio a shot next time.

Commentary:
Agreed that at times the commentary got a bit heavy on in-jokes/references that people outside the SNES FF community wouldn't get, which can be alienating after a while. IMO this is harder than it sounds to avoid (many of the runners/commentators have known each other for years, and it naturally happens when we get together); but posting commentary guidelines (like Driscollad did for the RPGLB marathon here) and/or eLmaGus' idea of practicing commentary before the relay should help.

Hearing feedback that the commentary didn't help people understand the runs/tricks and weren't able to get answers in chat was surprising and disappointing, as I thought all of the key points for each game got hit on at least once. Maybe a solution to this is expanding the Relay FAQ to include FAQs for each game/run as well, since it's a long event and people tune in and out and miss stuff. Arranging for some of the chat mods to be more active at spotting/answering gameplay-related questions in chat might help too.

Layout:
Chris' layout/animations for the last relay ended up being a 1-time thing (at least without a cost). If someone wants to volunteer to design a nicer layout for next time, I'll gladly take the help.

Timing:
This was a miss on my part. Since we didn't use Chris' layout again (which had a built in timer), I decided to just use individual run times; but that's something we should have discussed as a group. I've heard more feedback in favor of RTA timing for the relay (FF4 New Game to Kefka kill with no stops), and I agree that that makes it completely obvious which team is winning. I'd prefer to do what we did last time (switch runner at final boss kill, then switch during the intro to the next game), though having a consistent setup buffer would work too.

Bonus Game/Voting:
Not sure this is going to continue (I want to have regular races/relays of other RPGs/series on the RPGLB channel, so having a bonus race for the FF Relay too would be kind of redundant); but if it does we can change how the game is chosen (either something like 50/50 runners/viewers, or 100% viewer poll and just kill the bonus incentives). The bonus game race originally started primarily as a reward for the relay runners for doing well at their games and the incentives (as a replacement for having incentives subtract time from the run times, since that got a poor reception overall), and I wanted to give the viewers a bit of a say too; but getting into a situation where the winning bonus game got last place in the viewer poll was unfortunate.

Twitch Channel/Viewership:
Was great to see a pretty comparable turnout to the last relay (about 1600 avg viewers, peaking at 2800 after the Showcase Race raid), despite being on a new channel.

Organization:
Neerrm gave me a hand with some of the tech stuff this time (most notably the commentator restreams); but I could definitely use some help in the future, especially with layout design (like I said above), and with promotion (getting promo videos/team logos/banners made). I didn't have anywhere near as much time to work on the relay this time (because of RPGLB marathon planning mostly, along with some IRL stuff), and it think it showed a bit especially in promotion.

Nico Restream:
cookie did a great job as usual - there were 3462 total viewers (over the course of the relay, since nico doesn't track concurrent viewers like Twitch) and 2419 chat comments. The view count was around 35% higher than last time, probably largely due to there not being another FF relay on Nico at the same time.

EDIT: Almost forget to give big shoutouts to the runners - this was by far the best relay yet in terms of play quality, with 3 teams getting under 13 hours (which only 1 team did last time, and no teams the 1st relay)!

Here are the final times (1st # is adding up the 3 individual run times, 2nd # is RTA timing from FF4 start to Kefka kill):
Chocobros: 12:35:32 / 12:44:18
TrashCan: 12:38:22 / 12:40:56
Y Burns: 13:08:50 / 13:10:24
Ultros Boogie: 12:39:50 / 12:40:58

VODs for the relay + Mystic Quest bonus race are up at https://www.youtube.com/playlist?list=PLxmuedQTLk91yCbPxctNduCztd4BcWj-x.

Great feedback all around.  Here's my thoughts:

[b]Games/Runners:[/b]
Agreed that the games/categories work great, both for finding runners and making sense together in a relay format.  Was great to see 6 new runners in the relay this time; but I also definitely sensed some fatigue from the runners that had been in 2 or all 3 relays.  eLmaGus is right that 6 months is a long time, but when you consider planning time it's more like 3 months after a relay before runners need to start signing up for the next one so we can look for a date.

I'd be on board with scaling back to 1 SNES FF relay a year to make it a more special/hype event and avoid burnout (and have relays/marathons of other RPG series on the RPGLB channel), though if enough runners (especially 5/6 runners) want to keep 2/year and I can get some help with organization/promotion, I'm fine with that.

[b]Audio:[/b]
Pretty torn on this one.  Definitely agree that the commentators should be doing most of the talking, and that runners shouldn't have to be on the call if they don't want to be; but not allowing any runners on the call is something I wouldn't like if I were running (I really like getting to chat with my speedrun friends during events like this, which makes it more special than just doing a run from home like I do weekly).  We can revisit this next time and see what the next group of runners think about it.

Using game audio instead of music playlists is something I get frequent requests for.  I've been leery of that because just playing 1 runner's audio for the full run naturally draws viewer focus to them at the expense of the other 3 (watch the FF5 part of the Winter 2014 relay and you'll see what I mean), and switching audio between runners increases setup complexity all around.  Runners would have to be set up for direct game audio (I know there's a couple that currently just use 1 mic for everything in their normal setup), and either not join or listen to the Skype call (so it doesn't clash with the call audio on the restream), figure out a way to exclude it from their broadcast, or use a different PC/phone for Skype.

If we can figure out a setup that everyone's comfortable/happy with, I'm willing to give actual game audio a shot next time.

[b]Commentary: [/b]
Agreed that at times the commentary got a bit heavy on in-jokes/references that people outside the SNES FF community wouldn't get, which can be alienating after a while.  IMO this is harder than it sounds to avoid (many of the runners/commentators have known each other for years, and it naturally happens when we get together); but posting commentary guidelines (like Driscollad did for the RPGLB marathon [url=https://forum.speeddemosarchive.com/post/rpg_limit_break_2015_commentary_thread.html]here[/url]) and/or eLmaGus' idea of practicing commentary before the relay should help.

Hearing feedback that the commentary didn't help people understand the runs/tricks and weren't able to get answers in chat was surprising and disappointing, as I thought all of the key points for each game got hit on at least once.  Maybe a solution to this is expanding the Relay FAQ to include FAQs for each game/run as well, since it's a long event and people tune in and out and miss stuff.  Arranging for some of the chat mods to be more active at spotting/answering gameplay-related questions in chat might help too.

[b]Layout: [/b]
Chris' layout/animations for the last relay ended up being a 1-time thing (at least without a cost).  If someone wants to volunteer to design a nicer layout for next time, I'll gladly take the help.

[b]Timing: [/b]
This was a miss on my part.  Since we didn't use Chris' layout again (which had a built in timer), I decided to just use individual run times; but that's something we should have discussed as a group.  I've heard more feedback in favor of RTA timing for the relay (FF4 New Game to Kefka kill with no stops), and I agree that that makes it completely obvious which team is winning.  I'd prefer to do what we did last time (switch runner at final boss kill, then switch during the intro to the next game), though having a consistent setup buffer would work too.

[b]Bonus Game/Voting:[/b]
Not sure this is going to continue (I want to have regular races/relays of other RPGs/series on the RPGLB channel, so having a bonus race for the FF Relay too would be kind of redundant); but if it does we can change how the game is chosen (either something like 50/50 runners/viewers, or 100% viewer poll and just kill the bonus incentives).  The bonus game race originally started primarily as a reward for the relay runners for doing well at their games and the incentives (as a replacement for having incentives subtract time from the run times, since that got a poor reception overall), and I wanted to give the viewers a bit of a say too; but getting into a situation where the winning bonus game got last place in the viewer poll was unfortunate.

[b]Twitch Channel/Viewership: [/b]
Was great to see a pretty comparable turnout to the last relay (about 1600 avg viewers, peaking at 2800 after the Showcase Race raid), despite being on a new channel.

[b]Organization: [/b]
Neerrm gave me a hand with some of the tech stuff this time (most notably the commentator restreams); but I could definitely use some help in the future, especially with layout design (like I said above), and with promotion (getting promo videos/team logos/banners made).  I didn't have anywhere near as much time to work on the relay this time (because of RPGLB marathon planning mostly, along with some IRL stuff), and it think it showed a bit especially in promotion.

[b]Nico Restream:[/b]
cookie did a great job as usual - there were 3462 total viewers (over the course of the relay, since nico doesn't track concurrent viewers like Twitch) and 2419 chat comments.  The view count was around 35% higher than last time, probably largely due to there not being another FF relay on Nico at the same time.

EDIT: Almost forget to give big shoutouts to the runners - this was by far the best relay yet in terms of play quality, with 3 teams getting under 13 hours (which only 1 team did last time, and no teams the 1st relay)!

Here are the final times (1st # is adding up the 3 individual run times, 2nd # is RTA timing from FF4 start to Kefka kill):
Chocobros: 12:35:32 / 12:44:18
TrashCan: 12:38:22 / 12:40:56
Y Burns: 13:08:50 / 13:10:24
Ultros Boogie: 12:39:50 / 12:40:58

Tide

2015-03-12 02:45:02 pm

Insanity Prelude

What's really cool is how all 4 teams finished within such a tight time frame between each other. The difference between 1st and 2nd is by a mere 2 seconds in RTA timing and 1st and 4th only over half an hour. It reminded me of #rpg's second Super Mario RPG race where 2nd and 5th basically all finished within 15 minutes of each other.

catastrophic4

Edit history:

catastrophic4: 2015-03-12 04:52:28 pm

2015-03-12 04:49:46 pm

Games and Frequency:
It's an FF SNES Relay. There isn't much that can be done as far as choice of games. As someone who had never participated in the relay until the most recent one, I can say that, as a viewer, I enjoy watching races, especially of the SNES FF games. I think two relays per year would be fine, and I really like the idea of having a "defending champion" team where the runners are not changed. Having two relays per year, however, does present a couple of challenges. 1. That is a lot of work for one person (Puwexil) to do on his own, and 2. Keeping the runners fresh would be very important. Obviously, the answer to that is "if you don't want to play in the relay, don't submit to play in the relay," and building a strong "bench" of runners for a category is very important.

Audio:
As a viewer, I enjoy watching while having a playlist play in the background. Granted, the songs should not be distracting to the relay (i.e. songs with loud words) but I wholeheartedly agree that using one person's game audio definitely shifts focus away from the other three runners. Honestly, I am not even a fan of rotating the game audio from streamer to streamer - I think it works just like it is.

Commentary:
Runners should not be prohibited from the call. Obviously, with 8-9 people on Skype at the same time there will be some times where people talk over each other or cut up, but ultimately I didn't think it was bad. As far as keeping up with "who" was speaking at the time, that is an easy fix (can just capture someone's skype screen or Mumble screen so everyone can see who is speaking). Also, about the quality of the information, I agree with Puwexil - it is surprising to hear that people are saying they weren't getting answers or didn't understand what was going on... I thought that every commentary team did a good job of explaining the glitches, tricks, etc. Even during times where commentary went off topic, the general questions that were being asked were addressed. I personally did a lot of chatting with the viewers in the chat while I was running. I would ask that if a viewer feels as though the commentary is really going off topic or they have asked something legitimate multiple times without it being answered that the viewer bring it up immediately (by referencing one of the moderators by name - almost everyone has something that alerts them if their name is used in chat) so the question or issue can be addressed.

Timing:
I think that there is a fair argument to be had about both ways of timing. On one hand, we are looking for the team who has members that can complete their individual games the quickest. On the other hand, we are looking at what collective team can finish all three games the fastest. Having said that, it is a relay. One of the most important parts of any relay is the "handoff," so for me, RTA timing edges out individual game-time summation.

Bonus Game:
I think that the bonus game should be 50/50 runners/viewers. It is nice for the runners to have a say as to what the bonus game is, but the viewers should also have a real choice in the matter.

Big Picture:
Ultimately, it's important to remember that we are a bunch of video gamers getting together for the sake of playing video games. There will always be people that don't like something about how an event is handled or presented, but the idea is to meet people, talk, make friends, and most importantly, have fun. Even though my run went downhill at the end, I enjoyed being able to hang out with my friends and my community and I would hope that, overall, the viewers felt the same way.

[b]Games and Frequency:[/b]
It's an FF SNES Relay. There isn't much that can be done as far as choice of games. As someone who had never participated in the relay until the most recent one, I can say that, as a viewer, I enjoy watching races, especially of the SNES FF games. I think two relays per year would be fine, and I really like the idea of having a "defending champion" team where the runners are not changed. Having two relays per year, however, does present a couple of challenges. 1. That is a lot of work for one person (Puwexil) to do on his own, and 2. Keeping the runners fresh would be very important. Obviously, the answer to that is "if you don't want to play in the relay, don't submit to play in the relay," and building a strong "bench" of runners for a category is very important.

[b]Audio:[/b]
As a viewer, I enjoy watching while having a playlist play in the background. Granted, the songs should not be distracting to the relay (i.e. songs with loud words) but I wholeheartedly agree that using one person's game audio definitely shifts focus away from the other three runners. Honestly, I am not even a fan of rotating the game audio from streamer to streamer - I think it works just like it is.

[b]Commentary:[/b]
Runners should not be prohibited from the call. Obviously, with 8-9 people on Skype at the same time there will be some times where people talk over each other or cut up, but ultimately I didn't think it was bad. As far as keeping up with "who" was speaking at the time, that is an easy fix (can just capture someone's skype screen or Mumble screen so everyone can see who is speaking). Also, about the quality of the information, I agree with Puwexil - it is surprising to hear that people are saying they weren't getting answers or didn't understand what was going on... I thought that every commentary team did a good job of explaining the glitches, tricks, etc. Even during times where commentary went off topic, the general questions that were being asked were addressed. I personally did a lot of chatting with the viewers in the chat while I was running. I would ask that if a viewer feels as though the commentary is really going off topic or they have asked something legitimate multiple times without it being answered that the viewer bring it up immediately (by referencing one of the moderators by name - almost everyone has something that alerts them if their name is used in chat) so the question or issue can be addressed.

[b]Timing:[/b]
I think that there is a fair argument to be had about both ways of timing. On one hand, we are looking for the team who has members that can complete their individual games the quickest. On the other hand, we are looking at what collective team can finish all three games the fastest. Having said that, it is a relay. One of the most important parts of any relay is the "handoff," so for me, RTA timing edges out individual game-time summation.

[b]Bonus Game:[/b]
I think that the bonus game should be 50/50 runners/viewers. It is nice for the runners to have a say as to what the bonus game is, but the viewers should also have a real choice in the matter.

[b]Big Picture:[/b]
Ultimately, it's important to remember that we are a bunch of video gamers getting together for the sake of playing video games. There will always be people that don't like something about how an event is handled or presented, but the idea is to meet people, talk, make friends, and most importantly, have fun. Even though my run went downhill at the end, I enjoyed being able to hang out with my friends and my community and I would hope that, overall, the viewers felt the same way.

garik16

2015-03-12 07:23:39 pm

Viewer perspective: If RTA is going to be the timing, and IMO it should be, it needs to be clear to the runners when they need to be ready to start. the RTA/individual run time differences would be only a few seconds different except that Chocobros' FF6 runner hadn't set up the Veldt when the FF5 run ended, resulting in him basically starting 8 minutes left.

That said, IMO this is an awesome thing you guys have put on and I doubt it loses its awesomeness being twice a year, although I understand it'd be a lot easier for the runners to be once a year. But I don't think fatigue is a worry when twice a year.

Rakuen

2015-03-12 09:49:44 pm

Weegee Time

Why not try a Square RPG race of Secret of Mana, Secret of Evermore, and Chrono Trigger, if there's concerns about burning out the runners/audience? The games don't overlap and for the most part I don't think the runners do either.

the_roth

2015-03-12 11:06:38 pm

DO THE MEATEO

Love the feedback. My thoughts too:

Games/Runners
Loved seeing new runners. I'm a fence sitter on the 1 vs 2 relays per year. There won't be a shortage of FF4 runners but the 5/6 will struggle if this continues at 2 times a year. This could potentially be countered if there was 1 relay of FF4/5/6 during March and having a Chrono Trigger/Lufia2/Earthbound or similar in September, just to break it up.

Audio
Playlists, most likely. There may be enough spots in the run to interview each runner separately though - that could be a thing if it isn't too painful.

Commentary
I like Puwexil's idea of active mods or an FAQ to help answer questions. I enjoyed the commentary but being a runner, I have inside information Wink

Timing
Yes, absolutely determine how this should be done before the relay starts, either between the runners or just set a standard (it is a relay, after all). I still don't know who officially won the relay hah.

Bonus Game/Voting
The only feedback here is perhaps you could use a viewer poll to determine which game is in an upcoming relay or tournament instead of holding a bonus game race at an 'ad hoc' ish time (runners can then plan and prepare accoringly). There has to be some sort of incentive to pull off rarely seen glitches though, for viewer entertainment.

Country vs Country
Is there a way such a relay race could be held between the US and Japan (or others, e.g. Canada/France)?

Looking forward to participating in other races! I had an absolute blast, major shoutouts to everybody who participated and organised the event.

Love the feedback. My thoughts too:

[b]Games/Runners[/b]
Loved seeing new runners. I'm a fence sitter on the 1 vs 2 relays per year. There won't be a shortage of FF4 runners but the 5/6 will struggle if this continues at 2 times a year. This could potentially be countered if there was 1 relay of FF4/5/6 during March and having a Chrono Trigger/Lufia2/Earthbound or similar in September, just to break it up.

[b]Audio[/b]
Playlists, most likely.  There may be enough spots in the run to interview each runner separately though - that could be a thing if it isn't too painful.

[b]Commentary[/b]
I like Puwexil's idea of active mods or an FAQ to help answer questions. I enjoyed the commentary but being a runner, I have inside information ;)

[b]Timing[/b]
Yes, absolutely determine how this should be done before the relay starts, either between the runners or just set a standard (it is a relay, after all). I still don't know who officially won the relay hah.

[b]Bonus Game/Voting[/b]
The only feedback here is perhaps you could use a viewer poll to determine which game is in an upcoming relay or tournament instead of holding a bonus game race at an 'ad hoc' ish time (runners can then plan and prepare accoringly). There has to be some sort of incentive to pull off rarely seen glitches though, for viewer entertainment.

[b]Country vs Country[/b]
Is there a way such a relay race could be held between the US and Japan (or others, e.g. Canada/France)?

Looking forward to participating in other races! I had an absolute blast, major shoutouts to everybody who participated and organised the event.

eLmaGus-

2015-03-13 11:49:28 am

I must simply laugh.

Quote from catastrophic4:

Commentary:
Runners should not be prohibited from the call. Obviously, with 8-9 people on Skype at the same time there will be some times where people talk over each other or cut up, but ultimately I didn't think it was bad.

Disagree. If a person explains something and somebody has a "shit" or "damn" because something went wrong (and trust me that happened more than it should have) that is not good. Additionally if you keep the runners out you can pull game audio, which would be a big upside.

Quote from the_roth:

Country vs Country
Is there a way such a relay race could be held between the US and Japan (or others, e.g. Canada/France)?

Well here is what i know: France has enough runners, Germany has enough runners, getting Japan in would be nuts, Canada also has enough runners. this could be fun!

tonic

2015-03-13 12:19:39 pm

Appeared to be a success again, nice job. Everyone played well and it shows that an effort on the organizers was made to improve from the last relay.

My only gripe is that the inside SDA oldboy jokes were a headache. Yelling "EGG" every minute when 4 teams are at different points in FFIV during Babil was really offsetting- especially when the majority of viewers don't get it and are just trying to focus on commentary.

My suggestion for timing the runs is that perhaps you could instill a cooldown period after each run. For instance, rather than scramble to communicate that FFIV is done and FFV is going to begin and simultaenously switch the restream scenes, etc., you could have every team have 2 minutes from the time the FFIV runner indicates that he is done, to the time that the FFV runner starts. It would give the restreamer time to adequately prepare. Then, at the end of the relay, you could just subtract out 4 minutes for RTA time. This is dependent on how you all communicate to each other in between games, and perhaps to have someone managing this process (telling people when to go between runs).

Appeared to be a success again, nice job. Everyone played well and it shows that an effort on the organizers was made to improve from the last relay.

My only gripe is that the inside SDA oldboy jokes were a headache. Yelling "EGG" every minute when 4 teams are at different points in FFIV during Babil was really offsetting- especially when the majority of viewers don't get it and are just trying to focus on commentary.

My suggestion for timing the runs is that perhaps you could instill a cooldown period after each run. For instance, rather than scramble to communicate that FFIV is done and FFV is going to begin and simultaenously switch the restream scenes, etc., you could have every team have 2 minutes from the time the FFIV runner indicates that he is done, to the time that the FFV runner starts. It would give the restreamer time to adequately prepare. Then, at the end of the relay, you could just subtract out 4 minutes for RTA time. This is dependent on how you all communicate to each other in between games, and perhaps to have someone managing this process (telling people when to go between runs).

puwexil

2015-03-13 12:28:34 pm

Professional Second Banana

Yeah, I'd really love to see some cross-community competition with the JP scene (like other communities like Mega Man have); but for RPGs I have a really hard time seeing that happening because of language/version differences being much more of a thing than for platformers.

I'm personally more a fan of balancing teams by skill level; but having Team USA, Canada, Germany, France sounds like a fun idea to try once (and probably just once, since I also don't want to cut out runners from smaller countries).

Another benefit to having some kind of buffer for switching games/runners (which it occured to me the Nico FF4-6 relay has since they include game endings in their timing) would be keeping the commentary from clashing between games. The last 2 relays I've definitely felt like there hasn't been very solid commentary for the starts of the FF5/6 runs because everyone's still focused on the end of the previous game.

Melodia

Edit history:

Melodia: 2015-03-13 01:41:39 pm

2015-03-13 01:41:14 pm

On the other hand, the endings are quite long, that's like what, over 45 minutes between the two games? I mean obviously almost 13 hours vs almost 14 isn't a HUGE difference but depending how the runs go, especially FFIV, there could be some down time where no one is actually running (though perhaps this wouldn't be a big deal for some....good for a quick lunch break, bathroom break, etc).
Though on the flip side, considering that, one option that might work, though it kinda goes against the 'relay' mentality might be to just have each game start at the same time. It would be more of a 'race mini-marathon' than a 'relay' but it certainly would solve the issue of commentary at the beginning of games as well as the issue of timing.

puwexil

2015-03-13 01:58:16 pm

Professional Second Banana

Yeah, FF4 & 5's endings are around 40-45 minutes between them. I don't really want to play the full endings (FF6 already starts late enough in Europe as-is with the current schedule) - the proposed setup buffer would be something like 5 minutes or less.

Sir VG

2015-03-13 02:39:58 pm

Fucking Weeaboo

Yeah, the ending lengths are long for all 3 games and the relay is long enough as is without including them.

animenewscookie

2015-04-02 10:18:47 am

にゃんだにょ！

Sorry for the delay in responding; been busy at work. Heck, writing THIS at work too. :p Shh, don't say anything! I can provide some guidance on "how Japanese streamers do relays"; it's not definitive, but I have watched a number of larger and smaller relays and can provide some of the thought process that goes into the rules/etc that the relays use.

For those who might be interested (and have Nico accounts), there's a big FF4-9 relay planned to begin 10pm JST on 6/12: http://com.nicovideo.jp/community/co2670000
There's also a (huge) DQ1-6 relay at 3pm JST on 5/3: http://com.nicovideo.jp/community/co106941

Organization
Relays often have several hosts organizing the event; this FF4-9 relay has 5. Last year's big FF456 relay had 3. The host positions tend to change each year, and hosts are separate from the commentary team. Hosts are usually involved with setting the rules, organizing the runners, advertising the event and (usually but not always) streaming on the main community. Relay preparation seems to begin ~3-6 months in advance.

It costs money to stream on Nico, costs money to reserve broadcast space, and costs money to extend broadcasts during prime time (8pm-2am JST), and user streams are capped at 6 hours in duration at a time (you can stream >6 hrs but have to start a new broadcast), so that means the runners usually stream to 2 services (Nico for user interaction and UStream for mirroring purposes), and the hosts use the uninterrupted stream as their mirror source. This is similar, I think, to using the ESA relay server to mitigate some of the stream delay on Twitch. To dodge or reduce some of the other costs, sometimes relays begin at odd hours to maximize viewers at peak times for the peak games. One of the previous FF456 relays began at 2am JST(!), for example.

For a large relay, there are sometimes smaller events leading up to the bigger event. For example, there is a DQ mini-event coming up in 2 days: http://live.nicovideo.jp/gate/lv215799617 (I imagine it's an exhibition match). It's not unusual to see 2 teams face off for a smaller relay competition beforehand, or for all the players of a single game to race against each other. I think usually the hosts are involved in setting up these mini-events, but am not 100% sure. Sometimes the main mirror community will even stream the runners as they are practicing -- so you might have a FF4 runner, FF5 runner and FF6 runner all playing simultaneously on the "main stream". Naturally, this is easier when all runners are in the same timezone. I've seen them use VODs of runs before, too.

Viewers and Chat
Viewers are capped based on the level of the community, and Nico chatrooms are split up in sets of 500 viewers. This means there can't be a true "unified" chat (unlike what can be done on Twitch). Additionally, oftentimes the main relay mirror will fill to capacity, so hosts create sub-communities to provide additional viewer seats, particularly for non-premium accounts. The DQ relay has 4 sub-communities, for example. Maximum concurrent viewership of the DQ mirrors is 12k, and I guarantee they will all be full during peak viewership. Additionally, the runners will often have an additional 1-2k seats (which often are full to capacity as well)... But simply, Nico *has* to have a diaspora of viewers; there's simply no way for it to be anything else.

.. but this separation of viewers isn't all bad! First, this means that there are usually hundreds of viewers in each runner's stream, cheering them on directly. This keeps the runners motivated. Second, this gives runners incentives to stand out by doing something unusual (although oftentimes these "unusual" things are still pretty rote; singing songs, drawing pictures at key moments, etc). With these additional chances to interact, and with the interaction being more relevant to the runner, there's generally more activity and fewer lulls in action. Since commentary and runners aren't in the same Skype call, the runners can converse directly about how they're doing with their teammates, or discuss whatever else they feel like.

Rules
Almost all Nico relays are "any% glitchless", sometimes with additional restrictions. For example, FF games are almost always played with Battle Speed Active/1. Sometimes Vanish/Doom or other combos are restricted as well. Sometimes there were asymetrical rules too -- I saw a relay where each racer had to recruit a different character in FF6 WoR (newer speedrunners got easier recruits like Sabin or Mog; more experienced runners got Terra, Locke, Strago, etc).

The reason to use glitchless (and to require timing from power on) is generally to require the runner to have a harder challenge, because glitches generally reduce the overall level of difficulty. For example, FF4 gold and MP underflow leads to an abundance of elixirs and spells, lets Tellah one-shot certain bosses, etc. Mist Skip significantly reduces the danger of the bosses leading up to Fabul, etc.

Beyond the game rules and timing restrictions, relays often have streaming requirements as well -- for the FF4-9 relay, the streamer needs to clear their game 4 times before June, AS WELL AS stream 15 hours of "practice" streams per month. Other relays have required 1 full clear per week, or require "chart creation" -- where the runner has to create their own speedrun guide from scratch and use that in the marathon.

In terms of mercy killings, most relays have a "maximum time" for each game, and if the run takes longer than that, it is abandoned and the next runner can begin their game.. but the time is usually an hour longer than the "expected" finishing time would be. E.g. if FF6 is 6 hours, the kill time is 7 hours.

Broadcast Preparation and Execution
For FF relays in particular, the relay hosts often "interview" each runner in the week leading up to the relay. It's often a very laid back 30 minute chat about who they are, the game they're playing, their thoughts and expectations, usually with a healthy dose of goofing off. Before the main event, there is always an "opening ceremony" which consists of formally introducing the runners to the viewers, discussing the rules one final time, etc. Sometimes the hosts will even create introduction videos or power point slides.

Runners are not in a single unified skype call; rather, runners MIGHT be in a skype call with their teammates, and maybe a commentator might jump in to chat with the runner, but generally the runners are "on their own". This lets the runner stream with game audio, lets the commentators rotate between streams without needing to disrupt the runner, or ask them to be quiet while a bigger event is happening, etc.

When nothing major is going on (e.g. major boss battles), commentary will just rotate between streams regardless of who is in the lead. This can help keep the main mirror viewers "in-the-loop" when following along with all 4 teams.. although sometimes this means that commentary might explain the same exact thing 4 times, depending on how far apart the teams are.

Scoring the relays depends on the event; they've ranged from pure clear time (FF4 power on to sound stopping at THE END in FF6), to points based on ranking (1st place is 10 points, 2nd is 8, etc), to in-game events (fastest FF6 Fish RTA [RNG manipulation prohibited], Locke using Mirage Dive on Tunnel Armor, etc).

Usually the relay ends with a "closing ceremony", either immediately after the event, or a day or week after the main event. The winning team usually gets another introduction, highlights might be shown, and the winners get to stream a "victory party" -- usually drinking and chatting over Skype about the event and what they want to do afterwords.

Sorry for the delay in responding; been busy at work. Heck, writing THIS at work too. :p Shh, don't say anything! I can provide some guidance on "how Japanese streamers do relays"; it's not definitive, but I have watched a number of larger and smaller relays and can provide some of the thought process that goes into the rules/etc that the relays use.

For those who might be interested (and have Nico accounts), there's a big FF4-9 relay planned to begin 10pm JST on 6/12: http://com.nicovideo.jp/community/co2670000
There's also a (huge) DQ1-6 relay at 3pm JST on 5/3: http://com.nicovideo.jp/community/co106941

[b]Organization[/b]
Relays often have several hosts organizing the event; this FF4-9 relay has 5. Last year's big FF456 relay had 3. The host positions tend to change each year, and hosts are separate from the commentary team. Hosts are usually involved with setting the rules, organizing the runners, advertising the event and (usually but not always) streaming on the main community. Relay preparation seems to begin ~3-6 months in advance.

It costs money to stream on Nico, costs money to reserve broadcast space, and costs money to extend broadcasts during prime time (8pm-2am JST), and user streams are capped at 6 hours in duration at a time (you can stream >6 hrs but have to start a new broadcast), so that means the runners usually stream to 2 services (Nico for user interaction and UStream for mirroring purposes), and the hosts use the uninterrupted stream as their mirror source. This is similar, I think, to using the ESA relay server to mitigate some of the stream delay on Twitch. To dodge or reduce some of the other costs, sometimes relays begin at odd hours to maximize viewers at peak times for the peak games. One of the previous FF456 relays began at 2am JST(!), for example.

For a large relay, there are sometimes smaller events leading up to the bigger event. For example, there is a DQ mini-event coming up in 2 days: http://live.nicovideo.jp/gate/lv215799617 (I imagine it's an exhibition match). It's not unusual to see 2 teams face off for a smaller relay competition beforehand, or for all the players of a single game to race against each other. I think usually the hosts are involved in setting up these mini-events, but am not 100% sure. Sometimes the main mirror community will even stream the runners as they are practicing -- so you might have a FF4 runner, FF5 runner and FF6 runner all playing simultaneously on the "main stream". Naturally, this is easier when all runners are in the same timezone. I've seen them use VODs of runs before, too.

[b]Viewers and Chat[/b]
Viewers are capped based on the level of the community, and Nico chatrooms are split up in sets of 500 viewers. This means there can't be a true "unified" chat (unlike what can be done on Twitch). Additionally, oftentimes the main relay mirror will fill to capacity, so hosts create sub-communities to provide additional viewer seats, particularly for non-premium accounts. The DQ relay has 4 sub-communities, for example. Maximum concurrent viewership of the DQ mirrors is 12k, and I guarantee they will all be full during peak viewership. Additionally, the runners will often have an additional 1-2k seats (which often are full to capacity as well)... But simply, Nico *has* to have a diaspora of viewers; there's simply no way for it to be anything else.

.. but this separation of viewers isn't all bad! First, this means that there are usually hundreds of viewers in each runner's stream, cheering them on directly. This keeps the runners motivated. Second, this gives runners incentives to stand out by doing something unusual (although oftentimes these "unusual" things are still pretty rote; singing songs, drawing pictures at key moments, etc). With these additional chances to interact, and with the interaction being more relevant to the runner, there's generally more activity and fewer lulls in action. Since commentary and runners aren't in the same Skype call, the runners can converse directly about how they're doing with their teammates, or discuss whatever else they feel like.

[b]Rules[/b]
Almost all Nico relays are "any% glitchless", sometimes with additional restrictions. For example, FF games are almost always played with Battle Speed Active/1. Sometimes Vanish/Doom or other combos are restricted as well. Sometimes there were asymetrical rules too -- I saw a relay where each racer had to recruit a different character in FF6 WoR (newer speedrunners got easier recruits like Sabin or Mog; more experienced runners got Terra, Locke, Strago, etc).

The reason to use glitchless (and to require timing from power on) is generally to require the runner to have a harder challenge, because glitches generally reduce the overall level of difficulty. For example, FF4 gold and MP underflow leads to an abundance of elixirs and spells, lets Tellah one-shot certain bosses, etc. Mist Skip significantly reduces the danger of the bosses leading up to Fabul, etc.

Beyond the game rules and timing restrictions, relays often have streaming requirements as well -- for the FF4-9 relay, the streamer needs to clear their game 4 times before June, AS WELL AS stream 15 hours of "practice" streams per month. Other relays have required 1 full clear per week, or require "chart creation" -- where the runner has to create their own speedrun guide from scratch and use that in the marathon.

In terms of mercy killings, most relays have a "maximum time" for each game, and if the run takes longer than that, it is abandoned and the next runner can begin their game.. but the time is usually an hour longer than the "expected" finishing time would be. E.g. if FF6 is 6 hours, the kill time is 7 hours.

[b]Broadcast Preparation and Execution[/b]
For FF relays in particular, the relay hosts often "interview" each runner in the week leading up to the relay. It's often a very laid back 30 minute chat about who they are, the game they're playing, their thoughts and expectations, usually with a healthy dose of goofing off. Before the main event, there is always an "opening ceremony" which consists of formally introducing the runners to the viewers, discussing the rules one final time, etc. Sometimes the hosts will even create introduction videos or power point slides.

Runners are not in a single unified skype call; rather, runners MIGHT be in a skype call with their teammates, and maybe a commentator might jump in to chat with the runner, but generally the runners are "on their own". This lets the runner stream with game audio, lets the commentators rotate between streams without needing to disrupt the runner, or ask them to be quiet while a bigger event is happening, etc.

When nothing major is going on (e.g. major boss battles), commentary will just rotate between streams regardless of who is in the lead. This can help keep the main mirror viewers "in-the-loop" when following along with all 4 teams.. although sometimes this means that commentary might explain the same exact thing 4 times, depending on how far apart the teams are.

Scoring the relays depends on the event; they've ranged from pure clear time (FF4 power on to sound stopping at THE END in FF6), to points based on ranking (1st place is 10 points, 2nd is 8, etc), to in-game events (fastest FF6 Fish RTA [RNG manipulation prohibited], Locke using Mirage Dive on Tunnel Armor, etc).

Usually the relay ends with a "closing ceremony", either immediately after the event, or a day or week after the main event. The winning team usually gets another introduction, highlights might be shown, and the winners get to stream a "victory party" -- usually drinking and chatting over Skype about the event and what they want to do afterwords.

puwexil

2015-04-06 01:42:04 pm

Professional Second Banana

So much good info - thanks!

puwexil

2015-07-24 02:38:03 pm

Professional Second Banana

Gotten a couple of questions about when then next SNES FF Relay will be. Based on the above feedback and the sense of community interests I've gotten over the past few months, I've decided that the next one will be in 2016 (probably in the March-April range again, to not be too close to either AGDQ or RPG Limit Break).

In the meantime, look forward to the Mana Relay (Final Fantasy Adventure>Secret of Mana>Seiken Densetsu 3>Legend of Mana) that should be taking place later this year on twitch.tv/RPGLimitBreak. More info on that can be found at https://forum.speeddemosarchive.com/post/mana_series_relay_race_gauging_interest.html.