Best of luck Raen, hope to see a run from you soon =) Well the start of a run lol.
Yeah, I'd love to see a run using tingle tuner personally. Good luck, hope this pans out. TWW's a bitch of a game to speedrun.
SDA Forum
trepidation
Also, I might mention that we had a pretty great run started that was basically disqualified, because he didn't use save warping on the open ocean. From my understanding, this can be done in every square of the ocean to save time, but the trigger zones all need to be tested and I don't think the trick is all that well understood. Get ready for an outrageous number of segments...
Quadrant warping is pretty simple; Every quadrant has 4 sub-quadrants and when you save-quit in them, you get warped to the middle of it. There are some exceptions that I don't remember, probably cases where the island covers the middle of a sub-quadrant. I personally don't even care if quadrant warping is in the run. I'm more bothered about the temples and stuff, but if you want the lowest possible time, you gotta quadrant warp.
O Zlda?
I think you are correct. I may have said this before; in the places I've done it, it doesn't save more than a few seconds per open ocean square. Sometimes it saves less, because you spawn pointing at the center of a quadrant, and that may not be where you're headed.
Also, it's done by trial and error, saving and quitting and hoping that you went far enough across quadrant borders that the file resumes on the next square. This is problematic for a few reasons I'll put in a spoiler...
Sucks for the runner, sucks for the viewer, easy to cheat, maybe it should be avoided at a known loss of several seconds per journey, for the sake of integrity and watchability (as even the TASers do from time to time)? I know there has been a debate about this before, but I'm not sure which side I took.
Also, it's done by trial and error, saving and quitting and hoping that you went far enough across quadrant borders that the file resumes on the next square. This is problematic for a few reasons I'll put in a spoiler...
Something I noticed about it way back when was: it would be very easy for a dishonest runner to just say screw it, and use a segment even if he ended up saving it in the wrong place. Imagine you're running and just pulled off your record for a segment and you're sailing, waiting to cross the boundary into a quadrant and save to end the segment. You load up the saved file, and to your horror see that you saved a half second too early... you spawned in the quadrant you were meaning to exit instead of the new one.
What is your recourse? Well, you could redo the segment (and lose your time). You could start making sure you went far enough into a new quadrant (leaving less margin of error) to be certain you'll spawn there... but doing that will cause you to lose some of the very few seconds you're trying to save with the trick. What good is a trick if you have to sacrifice half the time it saves just to pull it off?
Or... well... there is another option. If it was close, you can't really tell whether or not you actually got there, just watching the video played back and relying on the map graphic in the corner. You could just pretend you made it. You can start the file back up, drive yourself over to the correct quadrant with no margin of error, save. Now you resume your run as though you made it there legit. Only someone who has a lot of time to test your exact route carefully or is very familiar with the boundaries will know. There's not really a clear visible line you can see dividing these quadrants. Well, that's cool, you saved a few fake seconds on top of the few you were saving with this trick!
What is your recourse? Well, you could redo the segment (and lose your time). You could start making sure you went far enough into a new quadrant (leaving less margin of error) to be certain you'll spawn there... but doing that will cause you to lose some of the very few seconds you're trying to save with the trick. What good is a trick if you have to sacrifice half the time it saves just to pull it off?
Or... well... there is another option. If it was close, you can't really tell whether or not you actually got there, just watching the video played back and relying on the map graphic in the corner. You could just pretend you made it. You can start the file back up, drive yourself over to the correct quadrant with no margin of error, save. Now you resume your run as though you made it there legit. Only someone who has a lot of time to test your exact route carefully or is very familiar with the boundaries will know. There's not really a clear visible line you can see dividing these quadrants. Well, that's cool, you saved a few fake seconds on top of the few you were saving with this trick!
Sucks for the runner, sucks for the viewer, easy to cheat, maybe it should be avoided at a known loss of several seconds per journey, for the sake of integrity and watchability (as even the TASers do from time to time)? I know there has been a debate about this before, but I'm not sure which side I took.
It's nice to see someone else having some interest in Wind Waker for once. I'm not sure if you're aware, but I started a run some time last year, but I've been having some problems and can't continue the run currently.
As far as doing a run goes, if you plan on doing a Tingle Tuner run, I'd very strongly suggest you practice Zombie Hovering first and see how well you can do it, assuming you haven't already. Just looking at a video of it (or videos displaying it with a cheat) can deceive you and make it look easier than it is. Don't just mash wildly, try to stay in a rhythm. Pure mashing will most likely cause you to miss many frames, as well tire you out much faster. Just practice it, and if you're a fast masher you shouldn't have a problem staying at the fastest rising speed once you learn the rhythm.
Now, a question I must ask. If you are completely set on doing the run, are you going to be skipping the Light Arrows? It's on the table whether you're using the Tingle Tuner or not.You need to decide if you're going to skip them before you get to the Wind Temple at the latest. The best spot you should pick up the Forest Water is untimed, but right before the Wind Temple should be the best bet if you're using Tingle Tuner, after it if you're not.
As far as doing a run goes, if you plan on doing a Tingle Tuner run, I'd very strongly suggest you practice Zombie Hovering first and see how well you can do it, assuming you haven't already. Just looking at a video of it (or videos displaying it with a cheat) can deceive you and make it look easier than it is. Don't just mash wildly, try to stay in a rhythm. Pure mashing will most likely cause you to miss many frames, as well tire you out much faster. Just practice it, and if you're a fast masher you shouldn't have a problem staying at the fastest rising speed once you learn the rhythm.
Now, a question I must ask. If you are completely set on doing the run, are you going to be skipping the Light Arrows? It's on the table whether you're using the Tingle Tuner or not.
I honestly have no idea if I'll skip the Ligh Arrows. I certainly could, but I'd also like to skip the Cabana deed. Is it worth doing both, or even possible? Does skipping Light Arrows save more time, or does skipping the Cabana Deed? These are questions I need to figure out the answers to before I figure out what I'm doing there. Right now, I'm still in the learning all the tricks phase.
I never timed it or really looked into either of those tricks, but I'd guess that it's faster to skip the deed, because then you don't need to bother with JPs and if you get light arrows you can get through that staircase of enemies before puppet ganon a lot faster. Plus getting light arrows doesn't take that long anyway, you just run through 5 or 6 doors.
Okay, wait, I screwed up there. For some reason I thought we got the Cabana chart before the Wind Temple and got the Forest Water before Wind Temple for Light Arrow skip, which we can't as we need the Hookshot if we want to skip the Cabana Deed, so my bad there.
I'm trying to go over how it could work in my head, so bear with me.
We get Forest Water before the Wind Temple (Wind Temple should take 12-14 minutes I think), then afterwards we start collecting some Triforce Charts to run down the rest of the time on the Forest Water, then use the Forest Water to skip the Cabana Deed. Get more Forest Water, get the rest of the Triforce Charts, fish up the entire Triforce, then head over to Ganon's Castle, skip the trials, get to Illusionary Room. Hopefully by the time you get there the Forest Water will be close to expiring.
Hopefully I'm not too far off with how it needs to be done, it sounds plausible to me. Since my logs are gone, I can't find out how long it took me to get to the Illusionary Room when I timed that.
Don't forget you'd end up fighting Puppet Ganon too. You could skip him, but if you do that, why not just skip Light Arrows in the first place?
I'm not being too bright today. There could be use to getting Light Arrows and skipping him anyways just to avoid the Forest Water if it poses a problem, but it just seems a bit silly.
I'm trying to go over how it could work in my head, so bear with me.
We get Forest Water before the Wind Temple (Wind Temple should take 12-14 minutes I think), then afterwards we start collecting some Triforce Charts to run down the rest of the time on the Forest Water, then use the Forest Water to skip the Cabana Deed. Get more Forest Water, get the rest of the Triforce Charts, fish up the entire Triforce, then head over to Ganon's Castle, skip the trials, get to Illusionary Room. Hopefully by the time you get there the Forest Water will be close to expiring.
Hopefully I'm not too far off with how it needs to be done, it sounds plausible to me. Since my logs are gone, I can't find out how long it took me to get to the Illusionary Room when I timed that.
Quote from phazon:
Plus getting light arrows doesn't take that long anyway, you just run through 5 or 6 doors.
I'm not being too bright today. There could be use to getting Light Arrows and skipping him anyways just to avoid the Forest Water if it poses a problem, but it just seems a bit silly.
trepidation
Back when quadrant warping was first discussed, it seemed like everyone was vehemently against NOT using it. I think the staunch opposition was most of the reason why the last runner got discouraged and quit. I think if we ever want to see a run of this game game completed we're going to have to let this one slide.
There are tons of runs on the site that have tricks that weren't used/flubbed. The runner almost always makes note of these flaws in the run write-up and openly invites other runners to take advantage of them. I think this is how quadrant warping should be approached. Complete a run without it, and make note that a future runner could beat your time by using it.
I really think we should get a formal ruling on this before anyone gets too far ahead of themselves. This issue is at the heart of whether or not this game is even runable, IMO.
There are tons of runs on the site that have tricks that weren't used/flubbed. The runner almost always makes note of these flaws in the run write-up and openly invites other runners to take advantage of them. I think this is how quadrant warping should be approached. Complete a run without it, and make note that a future runner could beat your time by using it.
I really think we should get a formal ruling on this before anyone gets too far ahead of themselves. This issue is at the heart of whether or not this game is even runable, IMO.
In all seriousness, nobody watches a TWW speedrun thinking "I can't wait to see how he's gunna sail the great sea" and saving a minute or two over a 5 hour run, to make the run more enjoyable for the viewer, is nowhere near enough reason for me to reject an otherwise good run. It just depends on what the runner wants to do. Sure the run will be easier to beat, but as the years go by with no TWW run being completed, how likely is it that someone is going to up and decide to make a run when there finally is a good run on here?
I'm not going to quadrant warp, I'll just say it 
So yeah, if that's grounds for rejection, that sucks, but I really just don't think it's worth it. For a relatively small time gain that exponentially increases segment amount and that isn't even vaguely fun to watch, it's just not worth it in my mind. I'll just do it without for now. I feel the same way you guys do, that if it's required we may never see a run of this game.
(user is banned)
Through out the entirety of the run, how much time would quadrant warping save? I could understand not wanting to do a trick, that has a very low probability of working, multiple times to save only a few minutes in such a long run. Suppose the run is about 5 hours long and 3 minutes are saved with this trick, that is only about 1% of the total time saved.
Quadrant warping is not a big deal, certainly not as big a deal as everyone makes it out to be. It only saves a few minutes, maybe a bit more, it's hard to say. When I can continue my run, I'm certainly not going to be using it unless some breakthrough is found that cuts it down massively.
In any case, if a run with quadrant warping is ever finished, what would make it a lot more enjoyable on the viewer's part is trimming and appending the segments where it takes place together, like the Diablo run(s) did.
In any case, if a run with quadrant warping is ever finished, what would make it a lot more enjoyable on the viewer's part is trimming and appending the segments where it takes place together, like the Diablo run(s) did.
O Zlda?
Quote from Caveberry:
Back when quadrant warping was first discussed, it seemed like everyone was vehemently against NOT using it. I think the staunch opposition was most of the reason why the last runner got discouraged and quit. I think if we ever want to see a run of this game game completed we're going to have to let this one slide.
I remember being one of those guys which is why I came in here to post my revised opinion. I didn't realize at the time that it could kill the runner's motivation, but if I'm honest, the warping played a factor in my own abandoned attempts.
ON THE OTHER HAND, you can still use the basic principles of the trick in a few spots where it naturally fits, such as any segment that you want to start or end at sea. I just feel bad for suggesting in the past that runners ought to be forced to abuse this on every damn sailing journey. It's not the same as skipping one trick that saves 5 minutes. I would post to fully defend Raen's decision if it was called into question.
trepidation
I'm really glad to heard that. It seems most people have come around on this issue.
I would love to see a run of this game, as it has become one of my favorites as time has passed. TP has a few runners all over it, but TWW (the superior game in most regards) is lying in languish. It's a difficult sight to see.
I would love to see a run of this game, as it has become one of my favorites as time has passed. TP has a few runners all over it, but TWW (the superior game in most regards) is lying in languish. It's a difficult sight to see.
Yeah, no kidding phazon. For the longest time I waited to attempt this for that to be found, but I've lost all hope, so I'm just doing this without the skip!
Anyway, hopefully I get started on this in earnest sometime soon. Right now I'm playing through the entire Zelda series in anticipation of Skyward Sword. Then I'll play Skyward Sword! Then maybe I'll get started on this.
Anyway, hopefully I get started on this in earnest sometime soon. Right now I'm playing through the entire Zelda series in anticipation of Skyward Sword. Then I'll play Skyward Sword! Then maybe I'll get started on this.
If done correctly...
I have been trying to figure this out all day: couldn't the trick in the video below be used to get past the barrier if you were to use the tingle tuner to heal yourself at the right moment? I can't use the tingle tuner since I don't have the GBA adapter link, (whatever it's called) so I can't try this out myself, but if there's something I'm not thinking of that would make this strategy pointless, could someone please inform me because it looks like Link is able to get past the barrier in the video!