Wind Waker

Edit history:

TheVoid: 2007-02-17 01:49:12 pm

2007-02-17 12:54:10 pm

For what it's worth, it's possible to get the Triforce Chart on the Islet of Steel without having bombs yourself. Just let the other enemy cannon boats destroy the boat that's blocking the entrance.

EDIT: I just figured out something else. The fastest movement over sea was taking out the sail, putting it away and taking it out again. But I just noticed that if you take out the Grappling Hook, then take out the sail, then take out the Grappling Hook again, and repeat. This makes you move faster then the other method.

EDIT: I'm not entirely sure about the Grappling Hook\Sail method. Because if you use the Grappling Hook you slow down a bit but when you put back the sail the boost is bigger. Could someone else also check this?

Edit history:

DJS: 2007-02-17 02:00:57 pm

2007-02-17 02:00:24 pm

torch slug since 2006

TheVoid, the thing 2 you noticed that Take out sail and
remove it and take it out thing is old, even TSA uses it in his run Wink

EDIT : Can somebody say what Sorcerer88's youtube name is? I would like to see his videos..

Edit history:

TheVoid: 2007-02-17 03:13:28 pm

2007-02-17 02:12:35 pm

Quote:

TheVoid, the thing 2 you noticed that Take out sail and remove it and take it out thing is old, even TSA uses it in his run Wink

I know but I found another method which makes you move a little faster over the sea (And I'm positive it's faster, or my eyes are deceiving me :)). When you're in the boat take out the Sail, then take out the Grappling Hook (No need to remove the sail first), then take out the Sail (No need to remove the Grappling Hook), and repeat this. The boost you get is bigger then the method TSA used.

EDIT: DJS, Sorcerer88's YouTube name is... Sorcerer88 Grin

2007-02-17 03:45:42 pm

torch slug since 2006

THx

Edit history:

DRybes: 2007-02-18 07:37:01 am

2007-02-18 07:16:32 am

O Zlda?

There's an effect on the camera sometimes when you speed up from a near-stop that makes it look faster. You must actually time things (start from a save file with the wind pointing the way you are facing when you begin, and immediately sail to your destination in a straight line, and stop the clock when you arrive).

Turn the camera to the side when you do the sail-repeat to see the sail "flex" as it catches the wind for the first time. It lasts a little over a second. It is when this flex starts to end that you put it away and pull it back out. If you did it too soon you won't see the flex, and you'll know you didn't get a boost that time, so try again in a second. But other than the appearance of the sail, the camera is unreliable for determining actual speed / what's fastest. Furthermore, any item button slows you down incredibly fast, and logic suggests to me that wavering between standard max sailing speed and sail boost speed is going to always be faster than wavering between almost-stopped and sail boost speed, even if that boost is bigger. The grappling hook is actually the slowest to bring you to a stop, and it's still about 3 times faster than stopping with A. Boomerang, cannon, and arrows are an even faster stop, and using bait or the wind waker is an instant stop.

--> When you reach the side of an island at full speed, your speed 'runs out' as you remain pressed against the island for a few seconds, more or less stuck. It might be faster to immediately press the wind waker button, then cancel... then you can immediately get out of your boat. That's a minute at least in this run, I'll have to measure it to see if it works.

Tower of the Gods, statue 3 with the beam, there's probably a lot of ways to get past the beam other than deku leaf, especially owing to the things you can climb on (on the large side of the room), but unless you can get back over it from the other side in an instant too, it's pointless. Also note that the statue can walk through the beam unharmed... TSA throws it as far as he can over the beam, though, presumably because Link's walking is faster than the controlled statue's hops, making it beneficial to reduce the amount of distance the statue must hop. (Side note... I love the way Link looks while he's controlling something.) Link is also invulnerable while controlling something (although if the controlled thing gets hit even once, you lose control). Perhaps this or the invulnerability can be used to advantage? But I'm not sure where. When playing the wind waker, the outside world freezes movement altogether.

There's probably a place or two to break sequence in other dungeons we haven't thought of just yet. Farore's Wind would be awesome in this game... totally rip the wind temple apart. Wind temple... Seems like a good candidate for a break, if you could only get the hookshot earlier in it. I can't fault TSA for missing the one hookshot platform in the tall circular room, falling back to the floor, and having to redo, losing about 20 seconds. It is annoyingly difficult to aim with precision with that thing in this game (and the grappling hook).

Deku leaf is going to be what gives us the majority of our shortcuts and outright breaks. If it's discovered to be helpful enough at chopping the time, and if a double meter is necessary for some of the leaps, it might prove worth the ~4-5 wasted minutes to get that double meter.

Hmm, what else while I'm thinking... oh right. The Cyclos battle. I did it in about half that time, my first time playing the game. You aim at him / his cloud, maybe it has to be the right-hand part of it, but the current run wastes a lot of time and arrows shooting completely to the right of Cyclos. I didn't think the cyclone altered the trajectory that much :|

There's an effect on the camera sometimes when you speed up from a near-stop that makes it look faster. You must actually time things (start from a save file with the wind pointing the way you are facing when you begin, and immediately sail to your destination in a straight line, and stop the clock when you arrive).

Turn the camera to the side when you do the sail-repeat to see the sail "flex" as it catches the wind for the first time. It lasts a little over a second. It is when this flex starts to end that you put it away and pull it back out. If you did it too soon you won't see the flex, and you'll know you didn't get a boost that time, so try again in a second. But other than the appearance of the sail, the camera is unreliable for determining actual speed / what's fastest. Furthermore, any item button slows you down [i]incredibly[/i] fast, and logic suggests to me that wavering between standard max sailing speed and sail boost speed is going to always be faster than wavering between almost-stopped and sail boost speed, even if that boost is bigger. The grappling hook is actually the slowest to bring you to a stop, and it's still about 3 times faster than stopping with A. Boomerang, cannon, and arrows are an even faster stop, and using bait or the wind waker is an instant stop.

--> When you reach the side of an island at full speed, your speed 'runs out' as you remain pressed against the island for a few seconds, more or less stuck. It might be faster to immediately press the wind waker button, then cancel... then you can immediately get out of your boat. That's a minute at least in this run, I'll have to measure it to see if it works.

Tower of the Gods, statue 3 with the beam, there's probably a lot of ways to get past the beam other than deku leaf, especially owing to the things you can climb on (on the large side of the room), but unless you can get back over it from the other side in an instant too, it's pointless. Also note that the statue can walk through the beam unharmed... TSA throws it as far as he can over the beam, though, presumably because Link's walking is faster than the controlled statue's hops, making it beneficial to reduce the amount of distance the statue must hop. (Side note... I love the way Link looks while he's controlling something.) Link is also invulnerable while controlling something (although if the controlled thing gets hit even once, you lose control). Perhaps this or the invulnerability can be used to advantage? But I'm not sure where. When playing the wind waker, the outside world freezes movement altogether.

There's probably a place or two to break sequence in other dungeons we haven't thought of just yet. Farore's Wind would be awesome in this game... totally rip the wind temple apart. Wind temple... Seems like a good candidate for a break, if you could only get the hookshot earlier in it. I can't fault TSA for missing the one hookshot platform in the tall circular room, falling back to the floor, and having to redo, losing about 20 seconds. It is annoyingly difficult to aim with precision with that thing in this game (and the grappling hook).

Deku leaf is going to be what gives us the majority of our shortcuts and outright breaks. If it's discovered to be helpful enough at chopping the time, and if a double meter is necessary for some of the leaps, it might prove worth the ~4-5 wasted minutes to get that double meter.

Hmm, what else while I'm thinking... oh right. The Cyclos battle. I did it in about half that time, my first time playing the game. You aim at him / his cloud, maybe it has to be the right-hand part of it, but the current run wastes a lot of time and arrows shooting completely to the right of Cyclos. I didn't think the cyclone altered the trajectory that much :|

2007-02-18 08:37:20 am

torch slug since 2006

When are you gonna start recording Segments? Just wondering..

xenos

Edit history:

xenos: 2007-02-18 10:19:02 am

2007-02-18 09:31:10 am

I did some timings and found this:
Sail time to Dragon Roost from the warp point at Windfall island is
1:41.50 and 1:42.50 for reasonably spaced sail movements (two tests)
1:50ish for grapple sail (three tests)
2:00.50 normal sailing (one test)

Quote:

Tower of the Gods, statue 3 with the beam, there's probably a lot of ways to get past the beam other than deku leaf, especially owing to the things you can climb on (on the large side of the room), but unless you can get back over it from the other side in an instant too, it's pointless. Also note that the statue can walk through the beam unharmed... TSA throws it as far as he can over the beam, though, presumably because Link's walking is faster than the controlled statue's hops, making it beneficial to reduce the amount of distance the statue must hop.

When holding things, it is faster to sidehop over long distances.

Quote:

Link is also invulnerable while controlling something (although if the controlled thing gets hit even once, you lose control). Perhaps this or the invulnerability can be used to advantage? But I'm not sure where. When playing the wind waker, the outside world freezes movement altogether.

The overworld does not freeze instantly though. In the ice isle cavern place, with the right timing it is possible to pull out the wind waker while next to an edge and wind blowing on you and you will fall into the water while still playing the wind waker. I don't think this is useful though. It is similar to this glitch. Maybe the wind waker could be used to get past the lasers.

Quote:

There's probably a place or two to break sequence in other dungeons we haven't thought of just yet. Farore's Wind would be awesome in this game... totally rip the wind temple apart. Wind temple... Seems like a good candidate for a break, if you could only get the hookshot earlier in it. I can't fault TSA for missing the one hookshot platform in the tall circular room, falling back to the floor, and having to redo, losing about 20 seconds. It is annoyingly difficult to aim with precision with that thing in this game (and the grappling hook).

I think climbing the spiral platforms can be avoided with savewarping and pot warping. There are already two breaks in the wind temple and a few tricks but looking at the dungeon design, I can't think of any other potential for this dungeon.

In other news, I made a video of the best way to get up the final staircase in the tower of the gods.
Also, it is faster to break the final warp pot in the earth temple and savewarp after the boss key.

Edit: I thought I might as well point out various things that TSA didn't use in his run that might be helpful.
-When on a spring board, the iron boots should be put on and removed without any delay.
-It is often faster to throw either Medli of Makar and use the command melody while they are in middair.
-When swinging on ropes especially in the first pirate rope course, it is often faster to press a immediately after grabbing the rope to jump again and you won't lose much momentum but will still make the jump.
-There are places in the tower of the gods where the deku leaf was not used but should have been to cross gaps.
-TSA shoots the jumping statues with an arrow and then swords the crystal but it is faster to run behind them without shooting them and slash the crystal.
-TSA didn't roll enough in his run. Roll as often as possible to go faster.
I don't know if any of these will be useful but I thought I'd post them anyway.

I did some timings and found this:
Sail time to Dragon Roost from the warp point at Windfall island is
1:41.50 and 1:42.50 for reasonably spaced sail movements (two tests)
1:50ish for grapple sail (three tests)
2:00.50 normal sailing (one test)
[quote]
Tower of the Gods, statue 3 with the beam, there's probably a lot of ways to get past the beam other than deku leaf, especially owing to the things you can climb on (on the large side of the room), but unless you can get back over it from the other side in an instant too, it's pointless. Also note that the statue can walk through the beam unharmed... TSA throws it as far as he can over the beam, though, presumably because Link's walking is faster than the controlled statue's hops, making it beneficial to reduce the amount of distance the statue must hop.[/quote]
When holding things, it is faster to sidehop over long distances.
[quote]
Link is also invulnerable while controlling something (although if the controlled thing gets hit even once, you lose control). Perhaps this or the invulnerability can be used to advantage? But I'm not sure where. When playing the wind waker, the outside world freezes movement altogether.[/quote]
The overworld does not freeze instantly though. In the ice isle cavern place, with the right timing it is possible to pull out the wind waker while next to an edge and wind blowing on you and you will fall into the water while still playing the wind waker. I don't think this is useful though. It is similar to this [url=http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=m80hKs6LNbc]glitch[/url]. Maybe the wind waker could be used to get past the lasers. 
[quote]
There's probably a place or two to break sequence in other dungeons we haven't thought of just yet. Farore's Wind would be awesome in this game... totally rip the wind temple apart. Wind temple... Seems like a good candidate for a break, if you could only get the hookshot earlier in it. I can't fault TSA for missing the one hookshot platform in the tall circular room, falling back to the floor, and having to redo, losing about 20 seconds. It is annoyingly difficult to aim with precision with that thing in this game (and the grappling hook).[/quote]
I think climbing the spiral platforms can be avoided with savewarping and pot warping. There are already two breaks in the wind temple and a few tricks but looking at the dungeon design, I can't think of any other potential for this dungeon.

In other news, I made a [url=http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1zC7u73YL1Q]video[/url] of the best way to get up the final staircase in the tower of the gods.
Also, it is faster to break the final warp pot in the earth temple and savewarp after the boss key.

Edit: I thought I might as well point out various things that TSA didn't use in his run that might be helpful.
-When on a spring board, the iron boots should be put on and removed without any delay.
-It is often faster to throw either Medli of Makar and use the command melody while they are in middair.
-When swinging on ropes especially in the first pirate rope course, it is often faster to press a immediately after grabbing the rope to jump again and you won't lose much momentum but will still make the jump.
-There are places in the tower of the gods where the deku leaf was not used but should have been to cross gaps.
-TSA shoots the jumping statues with an arrow and then swords the crystal but it is faster to run behind them without shooting them and slash the crystal.
-TSA didn't roll enough in his run. Roll as often as possible to go faster.
I don't know if any of these will be useful but I thought I'd post them anyway.

Edit history:

TheVoid: 2007-02-18 11:45:19 am

2007-02-18 11:02:54 am

Quote:

I did some timings and found this:
Sail time to Dragon Roost from the warp point at Windfall island is
1:41.50 and 1:42.50 for reasonably spaced sail movements (two tests)
1:50ish for grapple sail (three tests)
2:00.50 normal sailing (one test)

Ah ok, thanks for proving that it's slower. It's probably indeed like DRybes said that it looks faster because of the camera.

I found something else which is just a little timesaver but it would only be helpful in a 100% Run (If such Run will ever be done ;)). On Angular Isles you can collect a Heart Piece on top of it. Normally you need to grab and pull the first block, then grab and push the second block off the ledge and grab and pull the same block a little untill you can get on top of it to get higher towards the chest. You can climb on the second grabable block and just use the Deku Leaf to fly forwards a little and land on the higher place. Saves a little bit of time Wink

There was another thought I had. I thought "could it be possible for Cyclos to throw you into the Mother & Child Isles?". He throws you randomly around (I'm not too sure about this...) so maybe that would work. I experimented with it but I noticed that he never throws you at a part of the Great Sea where he's located himself. And Cyclos is located on the Mother & Child Isles (Go Go Game Developers! ;D), so this most probably won't work.

But because of the previous thought, I thought about something else. In a segmented Speedrun maybe the randomly throwing around from Cyclos could be used to your advantage (Requires luck manipulation and maybe a bit more segmenting because of the luck amount) to reach a destination (Or close to it if you need to go to a destination where Cyclos himself is located) faster then sailing. For example, I got thrown from 1 square North-East from Outset Island all the way to Dragon Roost Island. I'm not sure if something like this could be (ab)used in the route, but I thought I'd mention it nonetheless.

EDIT: Hmm, TSA already used Cyclos in his Speedrun Smiley

[quote]I did some timings and found this:
Sail time to Dragon Roost from the warp point at Windfall island is
1:41.50 and 1:42.50 for reasonably spaced sail movements (two tests)
1:50ish for grapple sail (three tests)
2:00.50 normal sailing (one test)[/quote]
Ah ok, thanks for proving that it's slower. It's probably indeed like DRybes said that it looks faster because of the camera.

I found something else which is just a little timesaver but it would only be helpful in a 100% Run (If such Run will ever be done ;)). On Angular Isles you can collect a Heart Piece on top of it. Normally you need to grab and pull the first block, then grab and push the second block off the ledge and grab and pull the same block a little untill you can get on top of it to get higher towards the chest. You can climb on the second grabable block and just use the Deku Leaf to fly forwards a little and land on the higher place. Saves a little bit of time ;)

There was another thought I had. I thought "could it be possible for Cyclos to throw you into the Mother & Child Isles?". He throws you randomly around (I'm not too sure about this...) so maybe that would work. I experimented with it but I noticed that he never throws you at a part of the Great Sea where he's located himself. And Cyclos is located on the Mother & Child Isles (Go Go Game Developers! ;D), so this most probably won't work.

But because of the previous thought, I thought about something else. In a segmented Speedrun maybe the randomly throwing around from Cyclos could be used to your advantage (Requires luck manipulation and maybe a bit more segmenting because of the luck amount) to reach a destination (Or close to it if you need to go to a destination where Cyclos himself is located) faster then sailing. For example, I got thrown from 1 square North-East from Outset Island all the way to Dragon Roost Island. I'm not sure if something like this could be (ab)used in the route, but I thought I'd mention it nonetheless.

EDIT: Hmm, TSA already used Cyclos in his Speedrun :)

2007-02-18 07:13:19 pm

torch slug since 2006

hmm.. what about if somebody does a 100% run off this game and put it up on google video or youtube like theyre doing with GTA3? that would be awesome

2007-02-18 11:08:39 pm

O Zlda?

Quote:

When holding things, it is faster to sidehop over long distances.

The overworld does not freeze instantly though. In the ice isle cavern place, with the right timing it is possible to pull out the wind waker while next to an edge and wind blowing on you and you will fall into the water while still playing the wind waker. I don't think this is useful though. It is similar to this glitch. Maybe the wind waker could be used to get past the lasers.

I think climbing the spiral platforms can be avoided with savewarping and pot warping. There are already two breaks in the wind temple and a few tricks but looking at the dungeon design, I can't think of any other potential for this dungeon.

In other news, I made a video of the best way to get up the final staircase in the tower of the gods.
Also, it is faster to break the final warp pot in the earth temple and savewarp after the boss key.

Edit: I thought I might as well point out various things that TSA didn't use in his run that might be helpful.
-When on a spring board, the iron boots should be put on and removed without any delay.
-It is often faster to throw either Medli of Makar and use the command melody while they are in middair.
-When swinging on ropes especially in the first pirate rope course, it is often faster to press a immediately after grabbing the rope to jump again and you won't lose much momentum but will still make the jump.
-There are places in the tower of the gods where the deku leaf was not used but should have been to cross gaps.
-TSA shoots the jumping statues with an arrow and then swords the crystal but it is faster to run behind them without shooting them and slash the crystal.
-TSA didn't roll enough in his run. Roll as often as possible to go faster.
I don't know if any of these will be useful but I thought I'd post them anyway.

Noted and appreciated. The problem in the wind temple is that we can't use savewarping. I'm not sure how much of a timesaver it would be, anyway, since you have the first few rooms to navigate through again. I also wonder if anyone's considered using floormasters to backtrack.

Quote:

There was another thought I had. I thought "could it be possible for Cyclos to throw you into the Mother & Child Isles?". He throws you randomly around (I'm not too sure about this...) so maybe that would work. I experimented with it but I noticed that he never throws you at a part of the Great Sea where he's located himself. And Cyclos is located on the Mother & Child Isles (Go Go Game Developers! ;D), so this most probably won't work.

But because of the previous thought, I thought about something else. In a segmented Speedrun maybe the randomly throwing around from Cyclos could be used to your advantage (Requires luck manipulation and maybe a bit more segmenting because of the luck amount) to reach a destination (Or close to it if you need to go to a destination where Cyclos himself is located) faster then sailing. For example, I got thrown from 1 square North-East from Outset Island all the way to Dragon Roost Island. I'm not sure if something like this could be (ab)used in the route, but I thought I'd mention it nonetheless.

EDIT: Hmm, TSA already used Cyclos in his Speedrun Smiley

I think the 'random' places Cyclos takes you are limited to the squares that you can warp to with his song, anyway. The one TSA uses always seems to take you to Outset Island (it did for me, first time I played the game and got caught in his cyclone by accident). Even with luck manipulation, it's still faster to shoot him after you get the arrows, and learn the song, so you may use the song anywhere, simply because the cyclones, controlled or not, will only take you to a fixed number of places. (I'm fairly sure.)

Quote:

When are you gonna start recording Segments? Just wondering..

already said

Quote:

hmm.. what about if somebody does a 100% run off this game and put it up on google video or youtube like theyre doing with GTA3? that would be awesome

would take 20+ hours

[quote]When holding things, it is faster to sidehop over long distances.

The overworld does not freeze instantly though. In the ice isle cavern place, with the right timing it is possible to pull out the wind waker while next to an edge and wind blowing on you and you will fall into the water while still playing the wind waker. I don't think this is useful though. It is similar to this [url=http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=m80hKs6LNbc]glitch[/url]. Maybe the wind waker could be used to get past the lasers.

I think climbing the spiral platforms can be avoided with savewarping and pot warping. There are already two breaks in the wind temple and a few tricks but looking at the dungeon design, I can't think of any other potential for this dungeon.

In other news, I made a [url=http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1zC7u73YL1Q]video[/url] of the best way to get up the final staircase in the tower of the gods.
Also, it is faster to break the final warp pot in the earth temple and savewarp after the boss key.

Edit: I thought I might as well point out various things that TSA didn't use in his run that might be helpful.
-When on a spring board, the iron boots should be put on and removed without any delay.
-It is often faster to throw either Medli of Makar and use the command melody while they are in middair.
-When swinging on ropes especially in the first pirate rope course, it is often faster to press a immediately after grabbing the rope to jump again and you won't lose much momentum but will still make the jump.
-There are places in the tower of the gods where the deku leaf was not used but should have been to cross gaps.
-TSA shoots the jumping statues with an arrow and then swords the crystal but it is faster to run behind them without shooting them and slash the crystal.
-TSA didn't roll enough in his run. Roll as often as possible to go faster.
I don't know if any of these will be useful but I thought I'd post them anyway.[/quote]
Noted and appreciated. The problem in the wind temple is that we can't use savewarping. I'm not sure how much of a timesaver it would be, anyway, since you have the first few rooms to navigate through again. I also wonder if anyone's considered using floormasters to backtrack.

[quote]There was another thought I had. I thought "could it be possible for Cyclos to throw you into the Mother & Child Isles?". He throws you randomly around (I'm not too sure about this...) so maybe that would work. I experimented with it but I noticed that he never throws you at a part of the Great Sea where he's located himself. And Cyclos is located on the Mother & Child Isles (Go Go Game Developers! ;D), so this most probably won't work.

But because of the previous thought, I thought about something else. In a segmented Speedrun maybe the randomly throwing around from Cyclos could be used to your advantage (Requires luck manipulation and maybe a bit more segmenting because of the luck amount) to reach a destination (Or close to it if you need to go to a destination where Cyclos himself is located) faster then sailing. For example, I got thrown from 1 square North-East from Outset Island all the way to Dragon Roost Island. I'm not sure if something like this could be (ab)used in the route, but I thought I'd mention it nonetheless.

EDIT: Hmm, TSA already used Cyclos in his Speedrun :)[/quote]
I think the 'random' places Cyclos takes you are limited to the squares that you can warp to with his song, anyway. The one TSA uses always seems to take you to Outset Island (it did for me, first time I played the game and got caught in his cyclone by accident). Even with luck manipulation, it's still faster to shoot him after you get the arrows, and learn the song, so you may use the song anywhere, simply because the cyclones, controlled or not, will only take you to a fixed number of places. (I'm fairly sure.)

[quote]When are you gonna start recording Segments? Just wondering..[/quote]
already said
[quote]hmm.. what about if somebody does a 100% run off this game and put it up on google video or youtube like theyre doing with GTA3? that would be awesome[/quote]
would take 20+ hours

2007-02-19 01:02:34 am

Quote:

I think the 'random' places Cyclos takes you are limited to the squares that you can warp to with his song, anyway. The one TSA uses always seems to take you to Outset Island (it did for me, first time I played the game and got caught in his cyclone by accident). Even with luck manipulation, it's still faster to shoot him after you get the arrows, and learn the song, so you may use the song anywhere, simply because the cyclones, controlled or not, will only take you to a fixed number of places. (I'm fairly sure.)

Yes you're right. Probably the one TSA used to get to Outset Island is the only one really worth it I think. And it seemed indeed that Cyclos only throws you at places you can reach by using the Ballad of Gales yourself (Minus the places Cyclos was located himself such as the Mother & Child Isles). If, in some way, Cyclos does throw you into the Mother & Child Isles then it will most probably be useless anyway because the Great Fairy won't give you anything until you've visited the Forsaken Fortress for the second time...

I'm wondering, when\how exactly is Makar triggered to be in the cave for the Wind Temple? I think after you get the Iron Boots, right? If so, Kazooie's trick to enter the room at Gale Isle earlier will be definitely useless (Nice find BTW :)).

At the Thorned Fairy Island I almost got through the tentacles. With a Jumpslash at the left tentacle, it almost knocked me inside. I actually doubt it's possible to get in there. I once dropped a bomb in front of the tentacles and then used the Deku Leaf to blow the bomb forwards and it went through the spaces between the tentacles, so you could maybe get through it in some way but so far I wasn't successfull Wink

I'm pretty curious what happens if you can enter the fairy on that island because she gives you arrows. Probably, just like when you try to play the Wind Temple song early in that room, the game freezes Wink

[quote]I think the 'random' places Cyclos takes you are limited to the squares that you can warp to with his song, anyway. The one TSA uses always seems to take you to Outset Island (it did for me, first time I played the game and got caught in his cyclone by accident). Even with luck manipulation, it's still faster to shoot him after you get the arrows, and learn the song, so you may use the song anywhere, simply because the cyclones, controlled or not, will only take you to a fixed number of places. (I'm fairly sure.)[/quote]
Yes you're right. Probably the one TSA used to get to Outset Island is the only one really worth it I think. And it seemed indeed that Cyclos only throws you at places you can reach by using the Ballad of Gales yourself (Minus the places Cyclos was located himself such as the Mother & Child Isles). If, in some way, Cyclos does throw you into the Mother & Child Isles then it will most probably be useless anyway because the Great Fairy won't give you anything until you've visited the Forsaken Fortress for the second time...

I'm wondering, when\how exactly is Makar triggered to be in the cave for the Wind Temple? I think after you get the Iron Boots, right? If so, Kazooie's trick to enter the room at Gale Isle earlier will be definitely useless (Nice find BTW :)).

At the Thorned Fairy Island I almost got through the tentacles. With a Jumpslash at the left tentacle, it almost knocked me inside. I actually doubt it's possible to get in there. I once dropped a bomb in front of the tentacles and then used the Deku Leaf to blow the bomb forwards and it went through the spaces between the tentacles, so you could maybe get through it in some way but so far I wasn't successfull ;) I'm pretty curious what happens if you can enter the fairy on that island because she gives you arrows. Probably, just like when you try to play the Wind Temple song early in that room, the game freezes ;)

2007-02-19 01:45:05 am

O Zlda?

Quote:

I'm wondering, when\how exactly is Makar triggered to be in the cave for the Wind Temple? I think after you get the Iron Boots, right? If so, Kazooie's trick to enter the room at Gale Isle earlier will be definitely useless (Nice find BTW :)).

For each of the temples there are two phases involving visiting the island, one where you first enter and learn the song, and one where you return after fetching the character/sage, and get to enter the temple. You can do the first phase immediately for both temples, and as Kazooie demonstrated, even break the statue on Gale Isle without the Iron Boots. The fact you can do it early doesn't matter, though. You will need the Iron Boots eventually. Furthermore, Makar will not appear until after you complete the Earth Temple with Medli. You are forced to do that temple first. I liken it to OoT's Shadow Temple situation... the game might not even care about Earth Temple, if you could find a way to do Wind first. But as of now, you have to beat Earth Temple to trigger Makar's appearance in the waterfall. It's reflected in what the Great Deku Tree will tell you at different points... before Earth Temple is beaten, asking about the Koroks in the forest makes him say he's unsure where Makar is. After beating the Earth Temple, that line of dialog is modified to contain a clue about where Makar is and what he's doing.

[quote]I'm wondering, when\how exactly is Makar triggered to be in the cave for the Wind Temple? I think after you get the Iron Boots, right? If so, Kazooie's trick to enter the room at Gale Isle earlier will be definitely useless (Nice find BTW :)).[/quote]
For each of the temples there are two phases involving visiting the island, one where you first enter and learn the song, and one where you return after fetching the character/sage, and get to enter the temple. You can do the first phase immediately for both temples, and as Kazooie demonstrated, even break the statue on Gale Isle without the Iron Boots. The fact you can do it early doesn't matter, though. You will need the Iron Boots eventually. Furthermore, Makar will not appear until after you complete the Earth Temple with Medli. You are forced to do that temple first. I liken it to OoT's Shadow Temple situation... the game might not even care about Earth Temple, if you could find a way to do Wind first. But as of now, you have to beat Earth Temple to trigger Makar's appearance in the waterfall. It's reflected in what the Great Deku Tree will tell you at different points... before Earth Temple is beaten, asking about the Koroks in the forest makes him say he's unsure where Makar is. After beating the Earth Temple, that line of dialog is modified to contain a clue about where Makar is and what he's doing.

shapular

2007-02-19 04:08:42 am

I love YaBB 1G - SP1!

Hey guys, I'm shapular, and I've been lurking on various topics for quite a while now. Anyway, I'd love to see another run of this, and I actually like this game more than TP Smiley

I'd like to help with this run if I can, though I probably won't be much good Tongue

Anyways, I don't know if this is really obvious or whatever, but in Dragon Roost Cavern, in the big room, the part with the two bombs and a rock, you can spin attack the bomb instead of throwing something (I couldn't even do it normally when I was playing through, that's how I'm pathetic I am) it might save like 2 seconds.

xenos

Edit history:

xenos: 2007-02-19 06:23:05 am

2007-02-19 05:39:35 am

Quote:

Noted and appreciated. The problem in the wind temple is that we can't use savewarping. I'm not sure how much of a timesaver it would be, anyway, since you have the first few rooms to navigate through again. I also wonder if anyone's considered using floormasters to backtrack.

After doing this glitch, the warp pot is open and you can use the pot near the beginning to skip going through the first few rooms.

Quote:

Hey guys, I'm shapular, and I've been lurking on various topics for quite a while now. Anyway, I'd love to see another run of this, and I actually like this game more than TP Smiley

I'd like to help with this run if I can, though I probably won't be much good Tongue

Anyways, I don't know if this is really obvious or whatever, but in Dragon Roost Cavern, in the big room, the part with the two bombs and a rock, you can spin attack the bomb instead of throwing something (I couldn't even do it normally when I was playing through, that's how I'm pathetic I am) it might save like 2 seconds.

Welcome. The best to way to help with this run is to find any time saving tricks and possibly sequence breaks.

Edit: It is definitely faster to use the warp pot in the wind temple after the miniboss.
Also by standing at point A in the picture, you can throw Makar to point B without having to use the command melody. You can then use the deku leaf to get across yourself.

[quote]
Noted and appreciated. The problem in the wind temple is that we can't use savewarping. I'm not sure how much of a timesaver it would be, anyway, since you have the first few rooms to navigate through again. I also wonder if anyone's considered using floormasters to backtrack.[/quote]
After doing this [url=http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BiiOM2-0h2w]glitch[/url], the warp pot is open and you can use the pot near the beginning to skip going through the first few rooms.
[quote]Hey guys, I'm shapular, and I've been lurking on various topics for quite a while now. Anyway, I'd love to see another run of this, and I actually like this game more than TP :) I'd like to help with this run if I can, though I probably won't be much good :P Anyways, I don't know if this is really obvious or whatever, but in Dragon Roost Cavern, in the big room, the part with the two bombs and a rock, you can spin attack the bomb instead of throwing something (I couldn't even do it normally when I was playing through, that's how I'm pathetic I am) it might save like 2 seconds.[/quote]
Welcome. The best to way to help with this run is to find any time saving tricks and possibly sequence breaks.

Edit: It is definitely faster to use the warp pot in the wind temple after the miniboss.
Also by standing at point A in the [url=http://i33.photobucket.com/albums/d58/Xenos_in_a_Hat/Windtempletrick.png]picture[/url], you can throw Makar to point B without having to use the command melody. You can then use the deku leaf to get across yourself.

Kazooie

2007-02-19 07:27:22 am

Zelda Rulez!

Do we need iron boots in earth temple is we can skip that room where makar get captured? If I remember correctly that door only open when you grow up those plants with makar and then he get captured. but what about that door what is up there with those plants and you can get there only as a makar?
Does anyone know what I mean?

Edit history:

TheVoid: 2007-02-20 09:59:56 am

2007-02-19 11:16:40 pm

I just completed the Earth Temple and I've got a few things to mention.

It's definitely easier\faster to use the Deku Leaf to blow away the fog and then use the Skull Hammer to hit the switch (Like peteyboo said in the comments on Kazooie's video) in that big room near the beginning.

I also noticed something with the Skull Hammer but I doubt it's useful somewhere. When you're facing a fence and you try to attack with the Skull Hammer, it always hits the fence. But if you lock on with L and then sidehop and then attack in the air with the Skull Hammer, it attacks through the fence. I was almost able to hit a switch behind a fence but couldn't. And even if I would hit it then it would still be useless Wink

EDIT: This also applies to walls BTW.

There's a room with 3 doors and 2 Redeads and a little plateau behind a Redead on the right. From this plateau you can use Medli and fly towards the door in front. This way you don't need to use the Mirror Shield to destroy a statue and push a block.

Also, in the big room with a lot of mirrors you can position Medli on top of the first mirror (Where the light shines on) and then destroy the 4 walls on the right and then let her shine into the right eye of the statue, place the mirror from the just destroyed wall in the correct place and then position Link the same as Kazooie did.

I just completed the Earth Temple and I've got a few things to mention.

It's definitely easier\faster to use the Deku Leaf to blow away the fog and then use the Skull Hammer to hit the switch (Like peteyboo said in the comments on Kazooie's video) in that big room near the beginning.

I also noticed something with the Skull Hammer but I doubt it's useful somewhere. When you're facing a fence and you try to attack with the Skull Hammer, it always hits the fence. But if you lock on with L and then sidehop and then attack in the air with the Skull Hammer, it attacks through the fence. I was almost able to hit a switch behind a fence but couldn't. And even if I would hit it then it would still be useless ;)

EDIT: This also applies to walls BTW.

There's a room with 3 doors and 2 Redeads and a little plateau behind a Redead on the right. From this plateau you can use Medli and fly towards the door in front. This way you don't need to use the Mirror Shield to destroy a statue and push a block.

Also, in the big room with a lot of mirrors you can position Medli on top of the first mirror (Where the light shines on) and then destroy the 4 walls on the right and then let her shine into the right eye of the statue, place the mirror from the just destroyed wall in the correct place and then position Link the same as Kazooie did.

Edit history:

DRybes: 2007-02-20 09:09:29 am

2007-02-20 09:08:14 am

O Zlda?

Quote:

Do we need iron boots in earth temple is we can skip that room where makar get captured? If I remember correctly that door only open when you grow up those plants with makar and then he get captured. but what about that door what is up there with those plants and you can get there only as a makar?
Does anyone know what I mean?

I know what you mean.

What if we could get to the top of that room without triggering the sequence where makar gets captured? Would we then need Iron Boots for anything else in the Temple, or could we skip them?

I think you still need Iron Boots, in the very first room of the temple, on the springboard, don't you?

Edit history:

TheVoid: 2007-02-20 01:57:03 pm

2007-02-20 09:56:30 am

Quote:

I think you still need Iron Boots, in the very first room of the temple, on the springboard, don't you?

I'm just playing the Wind Temple right now and it's possible to get to the other side of the room using the Deku Leaf from the springboard, so the Iron Boots aren't needed in the first room Smiley

EDIT: Heh, that's funny although useless. In the next room there's a big uhm, wall that can turn when you either activate a windthing with the Deku Leaf or jump on one of the two buttons on the other side of this flipping wall. If this wall is closed and you're on the side of the buttons. Equip the sword, walk on the left button while facing the wall and do a Jumpslash. You'll jump on the wall that's about to flip and you'll be in the upper part of the room Smiley

Normally you would need the Clawshot to get up there.

EDIT: I don't see any possible way to skip the Makar gets captured cutscene\sequence... There was one way I thought about but so far I wasn't successfull doing it, but I'm going to try it some more. To activate that cutscene you only need to put a seed on the top most plant (The part where Makar gets captured by those Floormasters). When you've put a seed there it's possible to return the focus to Link before Makar gets captured. So I thought what if I return the focus to Link and then quickly enter a door? If this would work and you would enter the room again, Makar should be next to you instead of on top with those Floormasters. Hmm...

EDIT: That gives me another idea. What if you return control to Link before Makar gets captured and then quickly save+quit?

EDIT: You don't return control, control is returned automatically... Nevermind about all this, I don't see any way of skipping this :-/

EDIT: One more thing to mention if it's not already known. You know those dungeon rooms where you can get a Triforce Chart, which has a main room surrounded by 4 rooms (Actually 6, the entrance and the Triforce Chart room included)? You can shoot with a Fire Arrow and light those things above the door yourself. Saves a little time because this way you skip the cutscene which shows lighting that thing above the door after clearing the room (Aiming isn't difficult, just run up to the door and shoot a bit below the actual fire target against the door part).

[quote]I think you still need Iron Boots, in the very first room of the temple, on the springboard, don't you?[/quote]
I'm just playing the Wind Temple right now and it's possible to get to the other side of the room using the Deku Leaf from the springboard, so the Iron Boots aren't needed in the first room :)

EDIT: Heh, that's funny although useless. In the next room there's a big uhm, wall that can turn when you either activate a windthing with the Deku Leaf or jump on one of the two buttons on the other side of this flipping wall. If this wall is closed and you're on the side of the buttons. Equip the sword, walk on the left button while facing the wall and do a Jumpslash. You'll jump on the wall that's about to flip and you'll be in the upper part of the room :) Normally you would need the Clawshot to get up there.

EDIT: I don't see any possible way to skip the Makar gets captured cutscene\sequence... There was one way I thought about but so far I wasn't successfull doing it, but I'm going to try it some more. To activate that cutscene you only need to put a seed on the top most plant (The part where Makar gets captured by those Floormasters). When you've put a seed there it's possible to return the focus to Link before Makar gets captured. So I thought what if I return the focus to Link and then quickly enter a door? If this would work and you would enter the room again, Makar should be next to you instead of on top with those Floormasters. Hmm...

EDIT: That gives me another idea. What if you return control to Link before Makar gets captured and then quickly save+quit?

EDIT: You don't return control, control is returned automatically... Nevermind about all this, I don't see any way of skipping this :-/

EDIT: One more thing to mention if it's not already known. You know those dungeon rooms where you can get a Triforce Chart, which has a main room surrounded by 4 rooms (Actually 6, the entrance and the Triforce Chart room included)? You can shoot with a Fire Arrow and light those things above the door yourself. Saves a little time because this way you skip the cutscene which shows lighting that thing above the door after clearing the room (Aiming isn't difficult, just run up to the door and shoot a bit below the actual fire target against the door part).

2007-02-20 05:16:13 pm

O Zlda?

Quote:

I'm just playing the Wind Temple right now and it's possible to get to the other side of the room using the Deku Leaf from the springboard, so the Iron Boots aren't needed in the first room Smiley

EDIT: Heh, that's funny although useless. In the next room there's a big uhm, wall that can turn when you either activate a windthing with the Deku Leaf or jump on one of the two buttons on the other side of this flipping wall. If this wall is closed and you're on the side of the buttons. Equip the sword, walk on the left button while facing the wall and do a Jumpslash. You'll jump on the wall that's about to flip and you'll be in the upper part of the room Smiley

Normally you would need the Clawshot to get up there.

EDIT: I don't see any possible way to skip the Makar gets captured cutscene\sequence... There was one way I thought about but so far I wasn't successfull doing it, but I'm going to try it some more. To activate that cutscene you only need to put a seed on the top most plant (The part where Makar gets captured by those Floormasters). When you've put a seed there it's possible to return the focus to Link before Makar gets captured. So I thought what if I return the focus to Link and then quickly enter a door? If this would work and you would enter the room again, Makar should be next to you instead of on top with those Floormasters. Hmm...

EDIT: That gives me another idea. What if you return control to Link before Makar gets captured and then quickly save+quit?

EDIT: You don't return control, control is returned automatically... Nevermind about all this, I don't see any way of skipping this :-/

EDIT: One more thing to mention if it's not already known. You know those dungeon rooms where you can get a Triforce Chart, which has a main room surrounded by 4 rooms (Actually 6, the entrance and the Triforce Chart room included)? You can shoot with a Fire Arrow and light those things above the door yourself. Saves a little time because this way you skip the cutscene which shows lighting that thing above the door after clearing the room (Aiming isn't difficult, just run up to the door and shoot a bit below the actual fire target against the door part).

We'll work on that cutscene Smiley

Wait, so if you light all 4 of those, you don't have to play the rooms? the time it takes to shoot the arrows (long delay inbetween fire arrows) as well as the precision necessary makes it seem like it wouldn't be any faster than those little cutscenes, if you still have to play all the rooms.

[quote]
I'm just playing the Wind Temple right now and it's possible to get to the other side of the room using the Deku Leaf from the springboard, so the Iron Boots aren't needed in the first room :)

EDIT: Heh, that's funny although useless. In the next room there's a big uhm, wall that can turn when you either activate a windthing with the Deku Leaf or jump on one of the two buttons on the other side of this flipping wall. If this wall is closed and you're on the side of the buttons. Equip the sword, walk on the left button while facing the wall and do a Jumpslash. You'll jump on the wall that's about to flip and you'll be in the upper part of the room :) Normally you would need the Clawshot to get up there.

EDIT: I don't see any possible way to skip the Makar gets captured cutscene\sequence... There was one way I thought about but so far I wasn't successfull doing it, but I'm going to try it some more. To activate that cutscene you only need to put a seed on the top most plant (The part where Makar gets captured by those Floormasters). When you've put a seed there it's possible to return the focus to Link before Makar gets captured. So I thought what if I return the focus to Link and then quickly enter a door? If this would work and you would enter the room again, Makar should be next to you instead of on top with those Floormasters. Hmm...

EDIT: That gives me another idea. What if you return control to Link before Makar gets captured and then quickly save+quit?

EDIT: You don't return control, control is returned automatically... Nevermind about all this, I don't see any way of skipping this :-/

EDIT: One more thing to mention if it's not already known. You know those dungeon rooms where you can get a Triforce Chart, which has a main room surrounded by 4 rooms (Actually 6, the entrance and the Triforce Chart room included)? You can shoot with a Fire Arrow and light those things above the door yourself. Saves a little time because this way you skip the cutscene which shows lighting that thing above the door after clearing the room (Aiming isn't difficult, just run up to the door and shoot a bit below the actual fire target against the door part).[/quote]
We'll work on that cutscene :)

Wait, so if you light all 4 of those, you don't have to play the rooms? the time it takes to shoot the arrows (long delay inbetween fire arrows) as well as the precision necessary makes it seem like it wouldn't be any faster than those little cutscenes, if you still have to play all the rooms.

2007-02-20 09:07:15 pm

Quote:

Wait, so if you light all 4 of those, you don't have to play the rooms? the time it takes to shoot the arrows (long delay inbetween fire arrows) as well as the precision necessary makes it seem like it wouldn't be any faster than those little cutscenes, if you still have to play all the rooms.

You still need to clear those 4 rooms :-/ Yeah, I doubt it saves any time. Although shooting with the Fire Arrow goes fast, it probably hardly makes any difference...

I just tried something but it didn't work out. In the Wind Temple I collected the Hookshot and exited the temple through the entrance. Then I gathered all the 8 Triforce Shard's but the King of Red Lions still said that the Master Sword didn't have the power to repel evil, so the Earth Temple must be completed.

One strange thing happend and I'm not sure what caused it. When I fished up the last Triforce Shard, the cutscene played faster (The scene showing Link opening the chest appeared faster). I believe normally you see a transition between fishing up the chest and Link opening the chest, but the transition wasn't present. I'm not sure why...

[quote]Wait, so if you light all 4 of those, you don't have to play the rooms? the time it takes to shoot the arrows (long delay inbetween fire arrows) as well as the precision necessary makes it seem like it wouldn't be any faster than those little cutscenes, if you still have to play all the rooms.[/quote]
You still need to clear those 4 rooms :-/ Yeah, I doubt it saves any time. Although shooting with the Fire Arrow goes fast, it probably hardly makes any difference...

I just tried something but it didn't work out. In the Wind Temple I collected the Hookshot and exited the temple through the entrance. Then I gathered all the 8 Triforce Shard's but the King of Red Lions still said that the Master Sword didn't have the power to repel evil, so the Earth Temple must be completed.

One strange thing happend and I'm not sure what caused it. When I fished up the last Triforce Shard, the cutscene played faster (The scene showing Link opening the chest appeared faster). I believe normally you see a transition between fishing up the chest and Link opening the chest, but the transition wasn't present. I'm not sure why...

Sorcerer88

2007-02-20 11:17:11 pm

I have no solution, but i admire the problem.

It might be faster to shoot the lights with the fire arrow yourself, if you shoot the light of room A, enter room A, exit room A, shoot light of room B,...

It just depends on whether you can put the bow away directly after a fire arrow shot or if you need to wait for it to reload... i don't remember that.