Thief 2: The Metal Age

2013-10-27 08:31:17 pm

Always move forward, never sleep.

Was out in the sticks this weekend without internet connection - was fun, but glad to be home. Smiley

Lot, yes, I've taken a look, and the lever seems to be at face level, but testing which angles of the rotation I'm at is something I should definitely do. I'm not too sure, however, just how to set up the clip, but it's usually right after I run into the gate, which is why you'll see me backing off and running into it over and over if I don't get it.

Now, to tell me what's wrong with my run of the level, here is the video!

Sabotage at Soulforge

Description:

So I finally completed the last mission. It was tough, but after hours of practice, I'm much more consistent with it than my first practice session. I mainly tried to emulate the run by Xmodule999, but there are some tricks the version I have doesn't allow, like leaning through the panel to open it from the other side to get to the fusion machine, and also the small window clip in that dangerous looking factory area with the press, saws etc. Now, if only I could figure out that speed potion bug ... Tongue

Anyway, it starts off with hitting the supply closet with a few fire arrows. Using the first speed potion in the beginning there sets up the timing with the blue mech in that area where I can easily get by without damage. Also, if I remember, I like to try to jump when the speed potion is about done to get an extra little bit of speed from it in the air. I like to only use one flashbomb while exiting the storage room, but using two isn't a deal breaker.

The next part is to create the beacon using the stolen materials on certain machines throughout the level. I would have to say that the beginning with the storage area through finishing the beacon are the most dangerous parts of the mission, as there are many blue mechs to encounter and can really screw things up. I lost some time shooting the first vine arrow, which can be a bit tricky, but usually works out well. I was also having trouble with the gauge, as evidenced in the video. I take a couple unfortunate hits as I exit that area, and fall off the edge before shooting the next vine arrow, when I would have liked to stay up there and jump to the vine.

The Northern Apse I found I could clip through the gate at the top of the elevator, which I find can be faster, and definitely much safer than making the jumps and climbing up to the top. I can also frogbeast down the elevator shaft, which might be faster than jumping straight off since I have to turn around and go in that direction anyway.

I do enjoy sword-fighting the mechanist before the beacon tower in that large chamber. Hitting the elevator down button when getting to the top of the towers and then jumping down onto the platforms after hitting the signal switch is of course faster, but I'm still not that great at remembering which way the switch is in relation to the elevator controls. I've screwed it up to the point where I take 4 damage when I land, and I need all the health I can get.

The dangerous looking factory is another part where I diverge, and decide to run under the press (trying to time my speed potion where I can get through faster) and the flaming conveyor belt. I'd rather take those chances than go up against the blue mechs head on.

The rest of the mission is pretty straight forward after that. Since I don't have enough fire arrows, I have to pick the door to get the plans, but it's not that terrible. Luckily, in the starting area, one of the mechs blew itself up when killing the frogbeast, which I thought was a nice touch.

I definitely need more practice with this level, but I think I'm improving pretty well. With all the detours and mistakes considered, I'm happy with the 12:01, and know I can get faster. I'm hearing those mechs trudge along the hallways in my head when there is silence now ... Tongue

Was out in the sticks this weekend without internet connection - was fun, but glad to be home. :)

Lot, yes, I've taken a look, and the lever seems to be at face level, but testing which angles of the rotation I'm at is something I should definitely do.  I'm not too sure, however, just how to set up the clip, but it's usually right after I run into the gate, which is why you'll see me backing off and running into it over and over if I don't get it.

Now, to tell me what's wrong with my run of the level, here is the video!

Sabotage at Soulforge
[hidden][url]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=h5jUDtV5R7w[/url]
Description:
[hidden]So I finally completed the last mission.  It was tough, but after hours of practice, I'm much more consistent with it than my first practice session.  I mainly tried to emulate the run by Xmodule999, but there are some tricks the version I have doesn't allow, like leaning through the panel to open it from the other side to get to the fusion machine, and also the small window clip in that dangerous looking factory area with the press, saws etc.  Now, if only I could figure out that speed potion bug ... :P

Anyway, it starts off with hitting the supply closet with a few fire arrows.  Using the first speed potion in the beginning there sets up the timing with the blue mech in that area where I can easily get by without damage.  Also, if I remember, I like to try to jump when the speed potion is about done to get an extra little bit of speed from it in the air.  I like to only use one flashbomb while exiting the storage room, but using two isn't a deal breaker.

The next part is to create the beacon using the stolen materials on certain machines throughout the level.  I would have to say that the beginning with the storage area through finishing the beacon are the most dangerous parts of the mission, as there are many blue mechs to encounter and can really screw things up.  I lost some time shooting the first vine arrow, which can be a bit tricky, but usually works out well.  I was also having trouble with the gauge, as evidenced in the video.  I take a couple unfortunate hits as I exit that area, and fall off the edge before shooting the next vine arrow, when I would have liked to stay up there and jump to the vine.

The Northern Apse I found I could clip through the gate at the top of the elevator, which I find can be faster, and definitely much safer than making the jumps and climbing up to the top.  I can also frogbeast down the elevator shaft, which might be faster than jumping straight off since I have to turn around and go in that direction anyway.

I do enjoy sword-fighting the mechanist before the beacon tower in that large chamber.  Hitting the elevator down button when getting to the top of the towers and then jumping down onto the platforms after hitting the signal switch is of course faster, but I'm still not that great at remembering which way the switch is in relation to the elevator controls.  I've screwed it up to the point where I take 4 damage when I land, and I need all the health I can get.

The dangerous looking factory is another part where I diverge, and decide to run under the press (trying to time my speed potion where I can get through faster) and the flaming conveyor belt.  I'd rather take those chances than go up against the blue mechs head on.

The rest of the mission is pretty straight forward after that.  Since I don't have enough fire arrows, I have to pick the door to get the plans, but it's not that terrible.  Luckily, in the starting area, one of the mechs blew itself up when killing the frogbeast, which I thought was a nice touch.

I definitely need more practice with this level, but I think I'm improving pretty well. With all the detours and mistakes considered, I'm happy with the 12:01, and know I can get faster.  I'm hearing those mechs trudge along the hallways in my head when there is silence now ... :P[/hidden][/hidden]

SocratesJohnson

Edit history:

SocratesJohnson: 2013-10-29 08:34:44 am

2013-10-29 12:33:49 am

Always move forward, never sleep.

Just recorded a Sabotage run at 11:52. An improvement, but it sure didn't feel like one since I took a lot of safety measures considering my health (exited at 1).

Video

LotBlind

2013-10-29 03:10:42 pm

I remember something about being able to "dodge" bot cannonballs by just standing in front of them close enough and on the correct side. That would slow your progress, but maybe you'd end up being able to take more liberties later. Although having seen your newer run, looks like you can dodge that stuff running.

I'm reading this fascinating guide to Thief 2: http://thief.nov.ru/azal/Sabotage_at_Soulforge/default.htm
Has plenty of gimmicks though questionable what part might be useful to us. You knew that you can apparently land on ladders from any height and survive? There's at least a big list of movement techniques in the section thus named (under "tutorials") though without any explanations.

So here's a kind of combined feedback on both the videos, hope some of this is new to you:
1) dropping a flash bomb instead of throwing it ahead of you to avoid getting blinded yourself
2) does any crouching-based trickery remove anything off the fall damage?
3) you probably couldn't create anything useful using incidental pick-ups while tinkering with the machines you need to use for the beacon could you?
4) Is there a version difference between how fast you can climb up ladders or why does it seem Poesta gets more speed in his run for the ladder leading to the roof from next to the guiding beacon sockets? Also seeing as you can survive falls onto ladders (unless this is another version difference) from any height, would it be feasible to save a frogbeast by doing that when returning back down? Too risky for single-segment?
5) I'm actually impressed by your running the more having watched the previous runs of this level by Poesta and Xmodule. You do several little things better than them like using the ramps for a boost whenever possible. Way to go! Smiley

6) I got this crazy idea of would it be possible to actually use broadheads for hitting some of the buttons in this level? Like calling an elevator a little faster? Looks like X is using gas arrows for that purpose...
7) For practice runs (while you're still doing that) consider raising the brightness a bit, sometimes hard to tell what's happening exactly and could end up missing *important* details.
8) Are you sure the bots around the crusher/fire conveyor area are too dangerous to try to bypass across the corridor they're patrolling? Even if you had to wait a second for one of them to turn around? Or using noisemakers or something? Are you unable to pass through the little window in your version?
9) The single bot guarding the elevator in that room that leads to the next signal device after the one that has the longest climb could be lured to stand underneath the elevator as it descends. Now what would that effect? Does the elevator shoot straight up again? I read that it kills the bot. Could you then mantle onto the elevator as it lifts up again? EDIT I see in your second run that your version at least just makes the bot clip through...
10) I think you should swing your blackjack more at the elevator shaft walls and generally try to create the biggest ruckus you can (without disorienting yourself)! This removes some of the frustration of having to do those bits over and over.
11) In the area with the big red lava ravine when crossing the bridge and taking a left turn, why don't you jump diagonally across the gap? You're not scared of said big red lava ravine are you?
12) If you're having trouble remembering which directions the antenna controls are why not make notes for that and read them during the elevator rides?
13) The door that you end up lockpicking isn't bashable now is it by any chance? Otherwise if you had managed to save a frogbeast or buy one less and get a fire arrow instead, you wouldn't be able to blow the door open?
14) Is there any difference if you only read the plans once you're outside causing both the objectives to be triggered at once? Don't know why I'm thinking there'd be a difference.
15) I think Karras is faking his archaic English rhetorics: "Thou art Garrett, are you not?"
16) When picking up the stage 1 device, could you not actually stand a little more to the left?
17) When readying up to take that shot in the bay where you create the stage 3 device, climbing the exit vine that is, could you time an upwards jump and get an upwards speed boost from the bomb? Roll Eyes

18) There is no number 18.
19) In the area with the crusher again, looks like there were two frogbeast eggs on the ground but you didn't use them for anything. Could you use them for the broadhead-frogbeast explosion trick at the plans room door again?
20) This one is just for finishing on a round number.

I remember something about being able to "dodge" bot cannonballs by just standing in front of them close enough and on the correct side. That would slow your progress, but maybe you'd end up being able to take more liberties later. Although having seen your newer run, looks like you can dodge that stuff running.

I'm reading this fascinating guide to Thief 2: http://thief.nov.ru/azal/Sabotage_at_Soulforge/default.htm
Has plenty of gimmicks though questionable what part might be useful to us. You knew that you can apparently land on ladders from any height and survive? There's at least a big list of movement techniques in the section thus named (under "tutorials") though without any explanations.

So here's a kind of combined feedback on both the videos, hope some of this is new to you:
1) dropping a flash bomb instead of throwing it ahead of you to avoid getting blinded yourself
2) does any crouching-based trickery remove anything off the fall damage?
3) you probably couldn't create anything useful using incidental pick-ups while tinkering with the machines you need to use for the beacon could you?
4) Is there a version difference between how fast you can climb up ladders or why does it seem Poesta gets more speed in his run for the ladder leading to the roof from next to the guiding beacon sockets? Also seeing as you can survive falls onto ladders (unless this is another version difference) from any height, would it be feasible to save a frogbeast by doing that when returning back down? Too risky for single-segment?
5) I'm actually impressed by your running the more having watched the previous runs of this level by Poesta and Xmodule. You do several little things better than them like using the ramps for a boost whenever possible. Way to go! :)
6) I got this crazy idea of would it be possible to actually use broadheads for hitting some of the buttons in this level? Like calling an elevator a little faster? Looks like X is using gas arrows for that purpose...
7) For practice runs (while you're still doing that) consider raising the brightness a bit, sometimes hard to tell what's happening exactly and could end up missing *important* details.
8) Are you sure the bots around the crusher/fire conveyor area are too dangerous to try to bypass across the corridor they're patrolling? Even if you had to wait a second for one of them to turn around? Or using noisemakers or something? Are you unable to pass through the little window in your version?
9) The single bot guarding the elevator in that room that leads to the next signal device after the one that has the longest climb could be lured to stand underneath the elevator as it descends. Now what would that effect? Does the elevator shoot straight up again? I read that it kills the bot. Could you then mantle onto the elevator as it lifts up again? EDIT I see in your second run that your version at least just makes the bot clip through...
10) I think you should swing your blackjack more at the elevator shaft walls and generally try to create the biggest ruckus you can (without disorienting yourself)! This removes some of the frustration of having to do those bits over and over.
11) In the area with the big red lava ravine when crossing the bridge and taking a left turn, why don't you jump diagonally across the gap? You're not scared of said big red lava ravine are you?
12) If you're having trouble remembering which directions the antenna controls are why not make notes for that and read them during the elevator rides?
13) The door that you end up lockpicking isn't bashable now is it by any chance? Otherwise if you had managed to save a frogbeast or buy one less and get a fire arrow instead, you wouldn't be able to blow the door open?
14) Is there any difference if you only read the plans once you're outside causing both the objectives to be triggered at once? Don't know why I'm thinking there'd be a difference.
15) I think Karras is faking his archaic English rhetorics: "Thou art Garrett, [b]are you[/b] not?"
16) When picking up the stage 1 device, could you not actually stand a little more to the left?
17) When readying up to take that shot in the bay where you create the stage 3 device, climbing the exit vine that is, could you time an upwards jump and get an upwards speed boost from the bomb? ::)
18) There is no number 18.
19) In the area with the crusher again, looks like there were two frogbeast eggs on the ground but you didn't use them for anything. Could you use them for the broadhead-frogbeast explosion trick at the plans room door again?
20) This one is just for finishing on a round number.

SocratesJohnson

2013-10-29 05:01:35 pm

Always move forward, never sleep.

Wow, great post, Lot!

You know, I actually found that link the other day while I was looking for an item map to see if I could maybe find another health potion (there is in a locked chest Sad

). I was playing around with the elevatoring at the top of the signal towers to see if there was a way to go out of bounds between them, or at least another one, but they're all self enclosed, and the others aren't even visible. I did look through the tutorials section, but the cool ones I can't do in this version. I did know about the ladder thing, but I think the problem with the one in the beacon tower is that the opening is too small for it to be safely reliable. Although, I get caught on it sometimes dropping through the hole and hit crouch to let go, but I'm not sure if I can maneuver in the air and grab onto it again at the bottom, which would save a frogbeast for later.

1) I could definitely do this, but it falls slower than throwing it right at the ground, and sometimes the big blues are ready with a shot quick than I had anticipated (outside the storage room mostly). It might help in some cases, however.
2) I tried this where I fall of the ledge to get to the elevator to the beacon, and no matter when I'm running or crouched, I still take 1 damage. I haven't thought of doing this in the room where I build the phase 3 device, since it's usually so hectic in there I'm just thinking of getting shit done. Tongue

I don't think it would work in the elevator shafts either, that is if it's already lowered enough where I would take damage anyway.
3) The idea has crossed my mind, and I'll have to remember what the machines are all called. If there is something I can create with the machines I go to, it's worth looking into making a mine or something.
4) I think there might be a difference, because I saw that in their videos as well. They get a little speed boost on the ladders, and I don't know how to do it, or what they're even doing to trigger it. It's worth looking into, though.
5) Thanks! Looking at older runs I've done, and the ones I'm doing now I can see that practice has paid off.
6) You know, I though of that as well, but never thought to try it because it would take some great aim - I miss that vine arrow on the floor from time to time, so I don't think I would be able to hit the button. Tongue

I'll give it a shot, though and see what happens.
7) When I played on my laptop, the game was so dark, but default settings on my desktop are surprisingly clear. I hadn't thought to increase the brightness, I was actually thinking of making it darker to set the mood better!
8) I think it all depends on how much health I have at that point. I've gotten through all of them unscathed with a flashbomb when I was just messing around once, so I'll have to revisit that thought if my health is looking good. I've tried to get through that little window, but have not been able to do it. I believe the method is to jump onto the edge without making a sound and lean through, but it doesn't allow me to lean when that happens.
9) I also have read that the bot should be crushed, and I've been trying for it when I get there, but so far, nothing yet. Tongue

If it does, however, go back up after hitting the bot, I could possibly mantle on it and save some seconds.
10) I think I should too! Definitely need a stress reliever.
11) Challenge accepted!
12) I think I pretty much have it down now, but that's not a bad idea to keep it in a notebook next to me.
13) In my second run, I tried to grab the two frogbeasts by the crusher to use on this door, but with the speed potion active, and me being a little intoxicated, I was only able to grab one of them. It's got me thinking of using the speed potion either earlier or in another place altogether. Something I'll have to experiment with there, but blowing open the door with the frogbeasts is definitely on my mind.
14) I haven't thought of it, but if I do it too late when I'm outside (crossing the trigger for the final objective), it could lose a second or so.
15) Hearing him say that over and over and over used to get on my nerves, now I find myself saying it with him! He really should say, "are thee not," with his fake patois.
16) This is a funny one, because of the way it becomes available for pickup. I have to keep holding forward while waiting for it to come out to stay at the exit, since I'll get pushed back by some unknown force. If I'm moving even a little bit, the part could hit me and keep getting pushed to the side. I think that if I'm standing more to the left, it would hit me, and keep getting pushed out to the right and into the water, so any time I would have saved standing closer to the elevator would be lost waiting for it be available for pickup. It needs to come to a complete stop, I think, before it will highlight.
17) Take more damage in this level!? Are you nuts!? Grin

I think it would be too random to do effectively, and the explosion will send the vine in all crazy directions where I would likely miss grabbing hold of it. Nice idea, though!
18) For reals!?
19) That is my exact thought. I was just going too fast with the speed potion and other outside effects to be able to grab them both.
20) Thanks for all the feedback and motivation, Lot!

Wow, great post, Lot!

You know, I actually found that link the other day while I was looking for an item map to see if I could maybe find another health potion (there is in a locked chest :( ).  I was playing around with the elevatoring at the top of the signal towers to see if there was a way to go out of bounds between them, or at least another one, but they're all self enclosed, and the others aren't even visible.  I did look through the tutorials section, but the cool ones I can't do in this version.  I did know about the ladder thing, but I think the problem with the one in the beacon tower is that the opening is too small for it to be safely reliable.  Although, I get caught on it sometimes dropping through the hole and hit crouch to let go, but I'm not sure if I can maneuver in the air and grab onto it again at the bottom, which would save a frogbeast for later.

1) I could definitely do this, but it falls slower than throwing it right at the ground, and sometimes the big blues are ready with a shot quick than I had anticipated (outside the storage room mostly).  It might help in some cases, however.
2) I tried this where I fall of the ledge to get to the elevator to the beacon, and no matter when I'm running or crouched, I still take 1 damage.  I haven't thought of doing this in the room where I build the phase 3 device, since it's usually so hectic in there I'm just thinking of getting shit done. :P I don't think it would work in the elevator shafts either, that is if it's already lowered enough where I would take damage anyway.
3) The idea has crossed my mind, and I'll have to remember what the machines are all called.  If there is something I can create with the machines I go to, it's worth looking into making a mine or something.
4) I think there might be a difference, because I saw that in their videos as well.  They get a little speed boost on the ladders, and I don't know how to do it, or what they're even doing to trigger it.  It's worth looking into, though.
5) Thanks!  Looking at older runs I've done, and the ones I'm doing now I can see that practice has paid off.
6) You know, I though of that as well, but never thought to try it because it would take some great aim - I miss that vine arrow on the floor from time to time, so I don't think I would be able to hit the button. :P I'll give it a shot, though and see what happens.
7) When I played on my laptop, the game was so dark, but default settings on my desktop are surprisingly clear.  I hadn't thought to increase the brightness, I was actually thinking of making it darker to set the mood better!
8) I think it all depends on how much health I have at that point.  I've gotten through all of them unscathed with a flashbomb when I was just messing around once, so I'll have to revisit that thought if my health is looking good.  I've tried to get through that little window, but have not been able to do it.  I believe the method is to jump onto the edge without making a sound and lean through, but it doesn't allow me to lean when that happens.
9) I also have read that the bot should be crushed, and I've been trying for it when I get there, but so far, nothing yet. :P If it does, however, go back up after hitting the bot, I could possibly mantle on it and save some seconds.
10) I think I should too!  Definitely need a stress reliever.
11) Challenge accepted!
12) I think I pretty much have it down now, but that's not a bad idea to keep it in a notebook next to me.
13) In my second run, I tried to grab the two frogbeasts by the crusher to use on this door, but with the speed potion active, and me being a little intoxicated, I was only able to grab one of them.  It's got me thinking of using the speed potion either earlier or in another place altogether.  Something I'll have to experiment with there, but blowing open the door with the frogbeasts is definitely on my mind.
14) I haven't thought of it, but if I do it too late when I'm outside (crossing the trigger for the final objective), it could lose a second or so.
15) Hearing him say that over and over and over used to get on my nerves, now I find myself saying it with him!  He really should say, "are thee not," with his fake patois.
16) This is a funny one, because of the way it becomes available for pickup.  I have to keep holding forward while waiting for it to come out to stay at the exit, since I'll get pushed back by some unknown force.  If I'm moving even a little bit, the part could hit me and keep getting pushed to the side.  I think that if I'm standing more to the left, it would hit me, and keep getting pushed out to the right and into the water, so any time I would have saved standing closer to the elevator would be lost waiting for it be available for pickup.  It needs to come to a complete stop, I think, before it will highlight.
17) Take more damage in this level!?  Are you nuts!? ;D I think it would be too random to do effectively, and the explosion will send the vine in all crazy directions where I would likely miss grabbing hold of it.  Nice idea, though!
18) For reals!?
19) That is my exact thought.  I was just going too fast with the speed potion and other outside effects to be able to grab them both.
20) Thanks for all the feedback and motivation, Lot!

LotBlind

2013-10-30 08:57:14 am

2) Well have you tried also to briefly mantle the side of the shaft to lower the drop height? I think this is probably futile when the elevators are constantly falling.
4) IIRC this was something I was able to do on my playthroughs and I think all I did was hold the "run fast forwards" button down and aimed way up so if that doesn't work it's just your version I'm sure. I played the original retail version at first I believe.
14) On the other hand reading it at the exit door a) saves you the trouble of doing so in case you happen to FAIL in between the plans room and the exit and b) maximizes the sequence breaking.
17) I meant seeing as you're already taking damage in both of the runs you publicized from that cannonball. So it doesn't give you a boost if you jumped right as it was about to hit you?
21) Did you consider dropping unnecessary items around the start to be able to find things easier later?

PS 15) It's "art thou not?", geez! Hath no-one sense for true Archaic in our days?

SocratesJohnson

2013-10-30 12:50:45 pm

Always move forward, never sleep.

2) I think I see what you're suggesting. Grabbing onto the ledge and then letting go? It might be worth it to try in some spots.
4) I know I'm holding the run button as I climb (all the time, really, my pinky gets a workout). So I think it must be version differences.
14) I see what you're saying, I could read it right after exiting and before the trigger. I'll give that a shot!
17) I hadn't remembered that I took damage. There have been times that I was shot while in the air, but it didn't seem to give me a boost at all. I could look into it and see if it boost me if it hits me in the back.
21) I had considered getting rid of the scouting orb, but always forget. I'd have to do it on an elevator, since you stop moving while looking through it. Otherwise, I'm getting better at inventory locations, and to get my flash bombs out I usually hit F8 instead of scrolling through. Dropping the gauge and the bantam node used to take a little bit to do since I had to find them in my inventory, but I now know that 3 clicks up from the flash bombs is the gauge, and then two clicks up from nothing is the node. So after I toss the flash at the bots, I scroll 3 clicks for the gauge, and can easily then go up 2 clicks after dropping that. One down from the beacon in any phase is always a frogbeast egg, and two of them is a flash bomb. I think the only thing I drop is the key I pick up since it's useless everywhere else.

15) I'm no better than Karras, it seems. Tongue

"All must hear the words of Karras... the words of Karras..."

2) I think I see what you're suggesting.  Grabbing onto the ledge and then letting go?  It might be worth it to try in some spots.
4) I know I'm holding the run button as I climb (all the time, really, my pinky gets a workout).  So I think it must be version differences.
14) I see what you're saying, I could read it right after exiting and before the trigger.  I'll give that a shot!
17) I hadn't remembered that I took damage.  There have been times that I was shot while in the air, but it didn't seem to give me a boost at all.  I could look into it and see if it boost me if it hits me in the back.
21) I had considered getting rid of the scouting orb, but always forget.  I'd have to do it on an elevator, since you stop moving while looking through it.  Otherwise, I'm getting better at inventory locations, and to get my flash bombs out I usually hit F8 instead of scrolling through.  Dropping the gauge and the bantam node used to take a little bit to do since I had to find them in my inventory, but I now know that 3 clicks up from the flash bombs is the gauge, and then two clicks up from nothing is the node.  So after I toss the flash at the bots, I scroll 3 clicks for the gauge, and can easily then go up 2 clicks after dropping that.  One down from the beacon in any phase is always a frogbeast egg, and two of them is a flash bomb.  I think the only thing I drop is the key I pick up since it's useless everywhere else.

15) I'm no better than Karras, it seems. :P "All must hear the words of Karras... the words of Karras..."

LotBlind

2013-10-31 08:52:30 am

21) There's no excuse for not throwing the scouting orb down into the big room with the pillars as you're ascending up that long shaft to watch the stymied mechanists for a while. Well, unless it throws you off completely for the rest of the items. And if you fail you'll know it's a restart...

SocratesJohnson

2013-10-31 09:24:33 am

Always move forward, never sleep.

That's actually a good place to throw it, so I can watch where the blue mech goes. Lately it's been walking up the ramp and blocking my way.

SocratesJohnson

2013-11-01 11:07:19 am

Always move forward, never sleep.

My Carpal Tunnel kicked in, and I haven't had a chance to practice lately. :/

When I have been practicing, the storage room and bay D have been going a lot better. There was even a time when I took no damage in either of those rooms, but I died while attempting a risky strategy descending the elevator shaft for the basement tower (with all the pillars). I don't think I'm going to use that strat anymore, because it's a little iffy to set up, and even if set up right, the fall sometimes can move you where you didn't want to. Basically I'm taking the body of one of the mechanists with me up the shaft, and trying to drop/nudge them into the corner as we're climbing. Close to the top, I hit the down button and mantle up (which can sometimes not work as well), hit the signal, and jump down onto the body to break my fall. It's better to have it in the corner to line it up easier, but there were times when I kind of bounced off of the wall and died. Sad

I'll get a quicksave near that point to practice, though, and hopefully can use it after getting more consistent with it.

The other problem I'm seeing is in that same area; the blue mech goes up the ramp and just sits in the corner there, blocking the path back up. Sure, I can disable it with two water arrows as it's back is turned, but then I have to take several seconds to smash the thing with either sword or blackjack (8 hits for either weapon) in order to pass.

Oh yeah, I tried the 2 frogbeasts on the plans door and only succeeded in blowing myself up. I didn't think I was that close, but apparently I was, and died, but the door was fine. I think I'll need 3 of them, probably, and I know where I can get one, so I have to see if it takes less time to get than picking the lock (about 8-9 seconds by my count).

So, healing up the wrist (by playing GTA V Tongue

) and hope to have time to practice this weekend. It especially sucks sitting at a computer all day at work; doesn't help at all. Tongue

My Carpal Tunnel kicked in, and I haven't had a chance to practice lately. :/

When I have been practicing, the storage room and bay D have been going a lot better.  There was even a time when I took no damage in either of those rooms, but I died while attempting a risky strategy descending the elevator shaft for the basement tower (with all the pillars).  I don't think I'm going to use that strat anymore, because it's a little iffy to set up, and even if set up right, the fall sometimes can move you where you didn't want to.  Basically I'm taking the body of one of the mechanists with me up the shaft, and trying to drop/nudge them into the corner as we're climbing.  Close to the top, I hit the down button and mantle up (which can sometimes not work as well), hit the signal, and jump down onto the body to break my fall.  It's better to have it in the corner to line it up easier, but there were times when I kind of bounced off of the wall and died. :( I'll get a quicksave near that point to practice, though, and hopefully can use it after getting more consistent with it.

The other problem I'm seeing is in that same area; the blue mech goes up the ramp and just sits in the corner there, blocking the path back up.  Sure, I can disable it with two water arrows as it's back is turned, but then I have to take several seconds to smash the thing with either sword or blackjack (8 hits for either weapon) in order to pass.

Oh yeah, I tried the 2 frogbeasts on the plans door and only succeeded in blowing myself up.  I didn't think I was that close, but apparently I was, and died, but the door was fine.  I think I'll need 3 of them, probably, and I know where I can get one, so I have to see if it takes less time to get than picking the lock (about 8-9 seconds by my count).

So, healing up the wrist (by playing GTA V :P ) and hope to have time to practice this weekend.  It especially sucks sitting at a computer all day at work; doesn't help at all. :P

LotBlind

Edit history:

LotBlind: 2013-11-02 08:28:32 am

2013-11-02 08:27:16 am

Mech blocking the ramp: umm... could you block its way with an object that you picked up from nearby? Or is it possible to just disable that mech before it even gets the chance? Furthermore do you think it follows strict patterns so that it will always be there at the same time or is it just getting caught in there?

Yeah frogbeasts are fickle creatures, they are children of the chaotic pagan cult after all. Is there a chance of obtaining another fire arrow? Is the door that you blow open earlier in the level any less sturdy so you could use say two frogbeasts there and save the fire arrows? Apart from that are you sure the frogbeasts were close enough to the door?

Mechanist in the shaft: there isn't a trick where you can pick the body up while falling and that somehow stops your fall? Don't really see that working... Is two bodies any better?

Buy some wrist warmers! Take your time! Smiley

Is it any better standing up? Maybe it doesn't affect wrists that much, but that's how I like to work with computers, standing for as much as my legs can take.

Mech blocking the ramp: umm... could you block its way with an object that you picked up from nearby? Or is it possible to just disable that mech before it even gets the chance? Furthermore do you think it follows strict patterns so that it will always be there at the same time or is it just getting caught in there?

Yeah frogbeasts are fickle creatures, they are children of the chaotic pagan cult after all. Is there a chance of obtaining another fire arrow? Is the door that you blow open earlier in the level any less sturdy so you could use say two frogbeasts there and save the fire arrows? Apart from that are you sure the frogbeasts were close enough to the door?

Mechanist in the shaft: there isn't a trick where you can pick the body up while falling and that somehow stops your fall? Don't really see that working... Is two bodies any better?

Buy some wrist warmers! Take your time! :) Is it any better standing up? Maybe it doesn't affect wrists that much, but that's how I like to work with computers, standing for as much as my legs can take.

SocratesJohnson

2013-11-02 08:15:44 pm

Always move forward, never sleep.

I did do some testing, and disabling the mech with a couple water arrows works well. On the other hand, it doesn't give me much time to kill the other mechanist and toss his body onto the elevator with his unconscious buddy. I'll have to find an easier way to disable them both.

Frogbeasts don't seem to want to open that damn door, or any other like it! I tossed out 3, which were right on the door, and blew them up. Door stayed shut. I tossed 3 more at it, and the same results. I tried with 3 and a fire arrow, but still nothing. Looks like I'll just have to pick the lock. :/

Standing doesn't make much of a difference for me, but my wrist is doing better now, at least. Smiley

LotBlind

2013-11-03 10:51:42 am

Yeah I like to stand for my back and neck and places...

A-ha, it's a frogbeast-proof door! One of Karras' more devious inventions...

SocratesJohnson

2013-11-05 11:08:37 pm

Always move forward, never sleep.

Had a good run today when I got home from work. First attempt, I died, but that's when a mechanist happened to be in an elevator shaft with me and maced me in the face. Second attempt, I got 11:44. Smiley

Getting better!

Sabotage at Soulforge

Description:

This run just felt good while doing it, and it turned out pretty well. A somewhat sloppy storage room, but it worked out well enough with the timing. Like my previous runs, I missed the first vine arrow in bay D. I should take that as a sign that I'll finish. Tongue

Bay D was pretty good, and I opted to jump to the vine to exit from the top since I saw the worker go to alert the big blue, and didn't want to risk it. Since the other two weren't in the room, I was able to get up there without a problem. I was glad to get the gate clip on the first try as well, and it always feels good to crush the blue mech with the elevator.

I did play it safe with the elevators, even though I had a good amount of health; I just didn't want to risk taking another hit later, which even scared me away from running through the mechs in the area with the crusher, taking the ladder instead.

I'm happy with the time as well, and just need to get better with the execution. I might go back to killing the guard while waiting for the elevator to lower in the room with the pillars, as I had to waste a flashbomb on him so he wouldn't hit me while picking the lock to the plans room.

Had a good run today when I got home from work.  First attempt, I died, but that's when a mechanist happened to be in an elevator shaft with me and maced me in the face.  Second attempt, I got 11:44. :) Getting better!

Sabotage at Soulforge
[hidden][url]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3RBRMntOVEg[/url]

Description:
[hidden]This run just felt good while doing it, and it turned out pretty well.  A somewhat sloppy storage room, but it worked out well enough with the timing.  Like my previous runs, I missed the first vine arrow in bay D.  I should take that as a sign that I'll finish. :P Bay D was pretty good, and I opted to jump to the vine to exit from the top since I saw the worker go to alert the big blue, and didn't want to risk it.  Since the other two weren't in the room, I was able to get up there without a problem.  I was glad to get the gate clip on the first try as well, and it always feels good to crush the blue mech with the elevator.

I did play it safe with the elevators, even though I had a good amount of health; I just didn't want to risk taking another hit later, which even scared me away from running through the mechs in the area with the crusher, taking the ladder instead.

I'm happy with the time as well, and just need to get better with the execution.  I might go back to killing the guard while waiting for the elevator to lower in the room with the pillars, as I had to waste a flashbomb on him so he wouldn't hit me while picking the lock to the plans room.[/hidden][/hidden]

DarkDEVASTAT10N

2013-11-06 05:43:09 am

I recently got a fairly decent single segment run.

Or for a bit of a better quality; http://www.twitch.tv/darkdevastat10n/c/3197282

Now let me just go over it here.
First half of the run up to Eavesdropping was okay. The key was in the acolytes quarters so I lost a bit of time there. I had a mistake on Precious Cargo and had to load a quicksave, which cost me some more time. Sabotage was pretty good, still had some quicksaves and quickloads there because it's a hard mission.
I think I could knock this down to sub 1:10 real time. This run was a 1:11:27 from start to finish with some quickloads/quicksaves.

There are mistakes in this run, quite a few but it's a run I'm happy to share. There are a few strategies I need to start doing, like the speedpotion jump on Trail of Blood, and the gate clip on Sabotage.

I apologize for the poor quality, I streamed this run and my internet isn't the best. I will improve this run. But I just figured I'd share it here because it's the first run I've done that I'd consider fairly good.

I recently got a fairly decent single segment run.
[spoiler]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UDKA86qnhds

Or for a bit of a better quality; http://www.twitch.tv/darkdevastat10n/c/3197282[/spoiler]

Now let me just go over it here.
First half of the run up to Eavesdropping was okay. The key was in the acolytes quarters so I lost a bit of time there. I had a mistake on Precious Cargo and had to load a quicksave, which cost me some more time. Sabotage was pretty good, still had some quicksaves and quickloads there because it's a hard mission.
I think I could knock this down to sub 1:10 real time. This run was a 1:11:27 from start to finish with some quickloads/quicksaves.

There are mistakes in this run, quite a few but it's a run I'm happy to share. There are a few strategies I need to start doing, like the speedpotion jump on Trail of Blood, and the gate clip on Sabotage.

I apologize for the poor quality, I streamed this run and my internet isn't the best. I will improve this run. But I just figured I'd share it here because it's the first run I've done that I'd consider fairly good.

LotBlind

2013-11-06 09:20:20 am

Sabotage:
1) you should try to manipulate the mech near the storage area to fire a cannonball at the storage room door and maybe you'll be able to avoid using one of your fire arrows! TBH this could be useful if it turned out their bombs actually damaged doors...
2) I know it's sub-optimal but if you happened to take a ton of damage before exiting bay D you'd remember you had the healing fountain and could use it to save the potion until later? It's up in the area you pass through am I correct? Because you can use more damage-heavy strats later. You'll probably benefit from a couple back-up strats for SS attempts no matter what.
3) Your antics with the mech and mechanist in the pillar room guarantees no blockage at the ramp?
4) Hahaha! All the unprovoked blackjack aggression reminds me of Monty Python.
5) Yay! That bot got MURKED! I'm a little disappointed though I'm not seeing the crack broadhead shot... Sad

6) What you're doing at the conveyor belt now (waiting before mantling it) is probably faster overall so you can dash right through when the fires are out.
7) Funny flashbomb before the plans room Smiley

8) Would the speed potion allow something special in bay D or elsewhere, skipping a vine arrow or something?

Sabotage:
1) you should try to manipulate the mech near the storage area to fire a cannonball at the storage room door and maybe you'll be able to avoid using one of your fire arrows! TBH this could be useful if it turned out their bombs actually damaged doors...
2) I know it's sub-optimal but if you happened to take a ton of damage before exiting bay D you'd remember you had the healing fountain and could use it to save the potion until later? It's up in the area you pass through am I correct? Because you can use more damage-heavy strats later. You'll probably benefit from a couple back-up strats for SS attempts no matter what.
3) Your antics with the mech and mechanist in the pillar room guarantees no blockage at the ramp?
4) Hahaha! All the unprovoked blackjack aggression reminds me of Monty Python.
5) Yay! That bot got MURKED! I'm a little disappointed though I'm not seeing the crack broadhead shot... :(
6) What you're doing at the conveyor belt now (waiting before mantling it) is probably faster overall so you can dash right through when the fires are out.
7) Funny flashbomb before the plans room :)
8) Would the speed potion allow something special in bay D or elsewhere, skipping a vine arrow or something?

SocratesJohnson

2013-11-06 10:45:26 am

Always move forward, never sleep.

1) This has accidentally happened before. I missed with one of the fire arrows but saw a bomb hit the door and explode, opening it for me. Trying to bait a mech might be useful, but could screw up some timing later if done incorrectly. The timing being when I'm running to bay D, and that mech that walks down the hall. I'm still not sure what, if any, triggers that thing has because there were times when it was just perfect, and other times when it was in a horrible spot. I'm thinking the alarm near the storage bay.
2) I've done that in a couple of attempts, and it's only a few seconds slower, I think. That is definitely something that I'm keeping in mind.
3) Those antics were from me making too much noise to snipe the mech with some water arrows, and it turned around. But I believe that if the mech at least sees me before getting on the elevator, it won't try to leave the room. I think I'm going to go back to killing that guard, because he can follow me up the ramp and out of the room, where he just waits for me in the northern apse sometime.
4) If I can smack it, I will!
5) I'll try to practice the shot for you. Tongue

The problem that I can see from that is that it will make noise, and trigger the mech to start walking, making it more dangerous. I'm always happy when the thing gets crushed and the platform stays elevated like that, because there were times when the mech was killed, and then proceeded to block the platform.
6) That was actually unintended, but I had thought of that afterwards as well. I kind of forgot where I was going there since the speed potion timing was off and I couldn't just speed jump through the crusher.
7) Thanks! That guy, I think, was the guy I let live in the room with the pillars - I need to kill him!
8) That's a good thought. Maybe jumping off of the machine or platform with the controls on it over to where I exit. I'll have to give that a shot.

Dark - I'm watching your video right now. Congrats on the time, man! Even with what you've said made mistakes on, 1:11 is a great time for RTA! My goal was to shoot for sub 1:15 game time, but I guess I have a new goal to shoot for. Wink

Also, what are you using for streaming? I don't have a lot of time to stream, but I thought I might as well give it a shot while I practice. I tried x-split, but it wouldn't capture the game, and I haven't gone so far as to subscribe to it incase it just doesn't work for Thief. I might just be using it wrong, though.

1) This has accidentally happened before.  I missed with one of the fire arrows but saw a bomb hit the door and explode, opening it for me.  Trying to bait a mech might be useful, but could screw up some timing later if done incorrectly.  The timing being when I'm running to bay D, and that mech that walks down the hall.  I'm still not sure what, if any, triggers that thing has because there were times when it was just perfect, and other times when it was in a horrible spot.  I'm thinking the alarm near the storage bay.
2) I've done that in a couple of attempts, and it's only a few seconds slower, I think.  That is definitely something that I'm keeping in mind.
3) Those antics were from me making too much noise to snipe the mech with some water arrows, and it turned around.  But I believe that if the mech at least sees me before getting on the elevator, it won't try to leave the room.  I think I'm going to go back to killing that guard, because he can follow me up the ramp and out of the room, where he just waits for me in the northern apse sometime.
4) If I can smack it, I will!
5) I'll try to practice the shot for you. :P The problem that I can see from that is that it will make noise, and trigger the mech to start walking, making it more dangerous.  I'm always happy when the thing gets crushed and the platform stays elevated like that, because there were times when the mech was killed, and then proceeded to block the platform.
6) That was actually unintended, but I had thought of that afterwards as well.  I kind of forgot where I was going there since the speed potion timing was off and I couldn't just speed jump through the crusher.
7) Thanks!  That guy, I think, was the guy I let live in the room with the pillars - I need to kill him!
8) That's a good thought.  Maybe jumping off of the machine or platform with the controls on it over to where I exit.  I'll have to give that a shot.

Dark - I'm watching your video right now.  Congrats on the time, man!  Even with what you've said made mistakes on, 1:11 is a great time for RTA!  My goal was to shoot for sub 1:15 game time, but I guess I have a new goal to shoot for. ;)

Also, what are you using for streaming?  I don't have a lot of time to stream, but I thought I might as well give it a shot while I practice.  I tried x-split, but it wouldn't capture the game, and I haven't gone so far as to subscribe to it incase it just doesn't work for Thief.  I might just be using it wrong, though.

LotBlind

Edit history:

LotBlind: 2013-11-06 11:28:13 am

LotBlind: 2013-11-06 11:27:27 am

2013-11-06 11:26:35 am

Devastation:
-I just followed you so if you happen to Stream at the right times, I'll be around.
Mission-per-mission comments...
1) Why is Garrett going on about water arrows and torches on his way out? Guy's going senile!
3) You can block with the blackjack..? o_O
4) "I'll show you what REAL guards can do!"
5) Looks like you two have different routes going here. In case you wanted resets for bad key placement Socrates' route might be better (finding out about that first) but if Devastation's route is faster overall then perhaps it's better to do that instead especially as getting better times is currently not just pivoted around the key. On the third hand like you mentioned it might affect looting too so there's an argument for going eavesdrop first.
-They're not blind or deaf, they're engrossed in conversation.
7) At the start when you missed the loot pickup, you could have just kept going and nabbed it on the way back seeing as your route does that.
-The wait for the guard seems pretty awkward. I see that your routes are totally different though... If I'm not mistaken Socrates' time is a bit faster when both of you made little mistakes. Can't quite see what causes the difference, obviously you're having to pick up more loot from inside the house while he doesn't have to wait for the guard. You don't have an extra flashbomb to expend on that guard do you?
-Whenever an NPC steps aside for you, you need to remember to thank them! They won't be so kind next time.
- I like the NPC boost in the foyer making your exit.
8) Looks like the Lieutenant won't always comment out loud on the little distractions you create.
- You're missing a few pieces of loot in this mission: the golden bottle and the passer-by's purse at least.
- The crate is an interesting solution but I'm not so sure it saves a lot of time. Socrates just mantles directly.
- Socrates had a speed potion handy to save a few secs in the market square. Looks like your strats called for an expensive invisi potion instead.
9) Are you using mwheelup for jumping?
10) Three words: Off-handed Frogbeast Manslaughter.
11) "From whence?" You want my opinion? That's self-repeating tautology.
12) You know what the worst way to fail this mission is? It's to drop Cavador accidentally from a height. Why? Cause now your Cavador's a cadaver.
14) "Hostility and violence". "Terror, terror, terror, terrorism, terror, terrorist networks. Iraq."
15) Hmm... You're using noisemakers to deflect the pillar room bot.
-You have to walk straight ahead through the exit doors to trigger the last objective. Smiley

Overall I can't help but think Socrates is beating you in style points pretty severely: more KOs and generally unnecessary gimmickry. Also you badly need to learn how doors work. On the other hand you've got more full-game runthroughs under your belt. I guess the two of you have to start sharing tips.

I don't know if every game can have an "SS with resets" category or if it's just when loading and saving causes something to happen. I'm thinking this game can't have that category but I'm not sure.

Devastation:
-I just followed you so if you happen to Stream at the right times, I'll be around.
Mission-per-mission comments...
1) Why is Garrett going on about water arrows and torches on his way out? Guy's going senile!
3) You can block with the blackjack..? o_O
4) "I'll show you what REAL guards can do!"
5) Looks like you two have different routes going here. In case you wanted resets for bad key placement Socrates' route might be better (finding out about that first) but if Devastation's route is faster overall then perhaps it's better to do that instead especially as getting better times is currently not just pivoted around the key. On the third hand like you mentioned it might affect looting too so there's an argument for going eavesdrop first.
-They're not blind or deaf, they're engrossed in conversation.
7) At the start when you missed the loot pickup, you could have just kept going and nabbed it on the way back seeing as your route does that.
-The wait for the guard seems pretty awkward. I see that your routes are totally different though... If I'm not mistaken Socrates' time is a bit faster when both of you made little mistakes. Can't quite see what causes the difference, obviously you're having to pick up more loot from inside the house while he doesn't have to wait for the guard. You don't have an extra flashbomb to expend on that guard do you?
-Whenever an NPC steps aside for you, you need to remember to thank them! They won't be so kind next time.
- I like the NPC boost in the foyer making your exit.
8) Looks like the Lieutenant won't always comment out loud on the little distractions you create.
- You're missing a few pieces of loot in this mission: the golden bottle and the passer-by's purse at least.
- The crate is an interesting solution but I'm not so sure it saves a lot of time. Socrates just mantles directly.
- Socrates had a speed potion handy to save a few secs in the market square. Looks like your strats called for an expensive invisi potion instead.
9) Are you using mwheelup for jumping?
10) Three words: Off-handed Frogbeast Manslaughter.
11) "From whence?" You want my opinion? That's self-repeating tautology.
12) You know what the worst way to fail this mission is? It's to drop Cavador accidentally from a height. Why? Cause now your Cavador's a cadaver.
14) "Hostility and violence". "Terror, terror, terror, terrorism, terror, terrorist networks. Iraq."
15) Hmm... You're using noisemakers to deflect the pillar room bot.
-You have to walk straight ahead through the exit doors to trigger the last objective. :)

Overall I can't help but think Socrates is beating you in style points pretty severely: more KOs and generally unnecessary gimmickry. Also you badly need to learn how doors work. On the other hand you've got more full-game runthroughs under your belt. I guess the two of you have to start sharing tips.

I don't know if every game can have an "SS with resets" category or if it's just when loading and saving causes something to happen. I'm thinking this game can't have that category but I'm not sure.

LotBlind

2013-11-06 11:59:30 am

Socrates:
9) One more thing came to mind: If you had an extra fire arrow, could you use that to open a locked chest? What was in that locked chest in the guards' dormitory that you once mentioned? Or will frogbeasts blow those open? God I hate the auto-correction underlining every "frogbeast" and "flashbomb" and "mech"...

and 5) How about a combo of that and the noisemaker afterwards or is it too late? Or the same in the other order? Or what happens if you throw a frog on the other side of the room for the distraction?

SocratesJohnson

2013-11-06 12:04:15 pm

Always move forward, never sleep.

5) Something to look into. That is, if I can make the shot with the broadhead first. Tongue

9) The locked chest holds a health potion, and I'm not sure if frogbeasts or fire arrows can open chests, but I'll definitely try that out.

I do like your noise arrow usage in the room with the pillars on Sabotage, Dark. I'll have to give that a shot.

SocratesJohnson

2013-11-06 05:09:40 pm

Always move forward, never sleep.

Well, Lot, here's a video for you.

It was suggested to me to try shooting an arrow to hit an elevator button guarded by a mech to see if I could do it. If anything, it's something to try for, and if it misses, it's not a huge deal since the mech is distracted anyway. Here are the results of one success.

DarkDEVASTAT10N

Edit history:

DarkDEVASTAT10N: 2013-11-06 05:38:12 pm

2013-11-06 05:31:16 pm

Quote from SocratesJohnson:

Also, what are you using for streaming? I don't have a lot of time to stream, but I thought I might as well give it a shot while I practice. I tried x-split, but it wouldn't capture the game, and I haven't gone so far as to subscribe to it incase it just doesn't work for Thief. I might just be using it wrong, though.

OBS: http://obsproject.com/

Quote from LotBlind:

Devastation:
-I just followed you so if you happen to Stream at the right times, I'll be around.
Mission-per-mission comments...

Could you name the missions instead of using numbers?

My route is the same as his for Blackmail I thought. I actually changed what I did because his was faster. Maybe the loot pickup might be slightly different.
I actually came up with the noisemaker arrows in the pillar room on the spot. I'd had him block the corridor for me a few times.
I actually forgot to walk straight out of sabotage, but it was kinda a safety thing because I didn't want the bot behind me to kill me at the very end or anything.

Quote from LotBlind:

Overall I can't help but think Socrates is beating you in style points pretty severely: more KOs and generally unnecessary gimmickry. Also you badly need to learn how doors work. On the other hand you've got more full-game runthroughs under your belt. I guess the two of you have to start sharing tips.

Doors and jumping are the hardest part of the run.

Quote from LotBlind:

I'm thinking this game can't have that category but I'm not sure.

I currently have no intention of sending anything into SDA. I run this game for my own enjoyment. But yeah I'd like to get a run that had no need for quickloads because obviously that would be quicker.

[quote="SocratesJohnson"]

Also, what are you using for streaming?  I don't have a lot of time to stream, but I thought I might as well give it a shot while I practice.  I tried x-split, but it wouldn't capture the game, and I haven't gone so far as to subscribe to it incase it just doesn't work for Thief.  I might just be using it wrong, though.[/quote]
OBS: http://obsproject.com/

[quote="LotBlind"]Devastation:
-I just followed you so if you happen to Stream at the right times, I'll be around.
Mission-per-mission comments...
[/quote]
Could you name the missions instead of using numbers?

My route is the same as his for Blackmail I thought. I actually changed what I did because his was faster. Maybe the loot pickup might be slightly different. 
I actually came up with the noisemaker arrows in the pillar room on the spot. I'd had him block the corridor for me a few times. 
I actually forgot to walk straight out of sabotage, but it was kinda a safety thing because I didn't want the bot behind me to kill me at the very end or anything.

[quote="LotBlind"]
Overall I can't help but think Socrates is beating you in style points pretty severely: more KOs and generally [b]unnecessary[/b] gimmickry. Also you badly need to learn how doors work. On the other hand you've got more full-game runthroughs under your belt. I guess the two of you have to start sharing tips.[/quote]
Doors and jumping are the hardest part of the run.

[quote="LotBlind"]
 I'm thinking this game can't have that category but I'm not sure.
[/quote]
I currently have no intention of sending anything into SDA. I run this game for my own enjoyment. But yeah I'd like to get a run that had no need for quickloads because obviously that would be quicker.

SocratesJohnson

Edit history:

SocratesJohnson: 2013-11-07 12:17:22 am

2013-11-07 12:15:53 am

Always move forward, never sleep.

Quote:

OBS: http://obsproject.com/

Sweet! Thanks dude. I'll check that out.

Quote:

I currently have no intention of sending anything into SDA. I run this game for my own enjoyment. But yeah I'd like to get a run that had no need for quickloads because obviously that would be quicker.

I dig this sentiment. I know SDA has it's rules, but at times, I think it's left up to the community that runs the game for the most part. I've gotten the game to run in VMWare, but it's virtually (teehee) unplayable due to lag (also virtual environments aren't designed for 3D gaming). So like yourself (v1.19, if I'm not mistaken) my run wouldn't be accepted either (using T2Tool 1.0.4.0). I think it's fun, and I'm glad to have some competition in the game, where hopefully we can learn from each other and drill the time down. On the other hand, if you did choose to submit the run with the "unofficial 1.19 patch", I would gladly volunteer to verify.

Also, I'm going to have to use the noise maker in the pillar room to make it safer to distract the mech and kill the mechanist on Sabotage. Thanks!

[quote]OBS: http://obsproject.com/[/quote]
Sweet!  Thanks dude.  I'll check that out.

[quote]I currently have no intention of sending anything into SDA. I run this game for my own enjoyment. But yeah I'd like to get a run that had no need for quickloads because obviously that would be quicker.[/quote]
I dig this sentiment.  I know SDA has it's rules, but at times, I think it's left up to the community that runs the game for the most part.  I've gotten the game to run in VMWare, but it's virtually (teehee) unplayable due to lag (also virtual environments aren't designed for 3D gaming).  So like yourself (v1.19, if I'm not mistaken) my run wouldn't be accepted either (using T2Tool 1.0.4.0).  I think it's fun, and I'm glad to have some competition in the game, where hopefully we can learn from each other and drill the time down.  On the other hand, if you did choose to submit the run with the "unofficial 1.19 patch", I would gladly volunteer to verify.

Also, I'm going to have to use the noise maker in the pillar room to make it safer to distract the mech and kill the mechanist on Sabotage.  Thanks!

DarkDEVASTAT10N

2013-11-07 12:51:13 am

As far as I know, the 1.19 doesn't affect the speedrun any different than 1.18 would. It just allows me to run the game Windowed, fix the gamma and small things like that. Helps with streaming.

Also another thing, I tried to comment on your Noisemaker arrow video you recently uploaded, but I think it didn't go through because of the new Google+ stuff they're trying to force. I'll just comment it here instead.

I recommend against shooting a Noisemaker arrow there. It may not do any damage instantly, but when you're on your way back down from flipping the switch at the top. Mechs from surrounding rooms will have entered the room looking for the Noisemaker arrow. I used to distract the robot with a Noisemaker, but I changed to killing it with 2x Water Arrows because I would die there a lot on the way out.

SocratesJohnson

Edit history:

SocratesJohnson: 2013-11-07 01:14:16 am

2013-11-07 01:13:02 am

Always move forward, never sleep.

Good tip. I might just try to use a broadhead then and (try to) dodge the bomb it inevitably will shoot at me, or just stay the previous course. Hitting the one in the pillar room might be more useful, if it can be lined up consistently. I'll need to practice that.

And yeah, though the last time I played this game was about 10 - 11 years ago when it came out, I haven't noticed a difference in play with the patch I'm using either, except for that is actually plays on Windows 7 and at a higher resolution with some fixes to glitches I can't now use (like on mission 2 where you use the key through the walls).

I'm hoping to see a run from you without any quickloads, though! Tongue

I know you can do it. I only counted 2 in your run, I think. (Casing and Sabotage?)

DarkDEVASTAT10N

2013-11-07 06:30:39 am

Oh, I think I quickloaded 4 times actually. Once on Kidnap (or Precious Cargo I can't remember), once on Casing and twice(?) on Sabotage.
It's actually really hard to go without quickloads unless you just reset at each mistake, which I think is silly when the time is still pretty unoptimised. You'd never finished a run if you quit each time you had to quickload.

Yeah there's still quite a lot of room for improvement. I look forward to you doing runs Socrates so we can compete!