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Poesta: 2010-09-01 02:58:43 pm
Poesta: 2010-09-01 02:58:35 pm
Poesta: 2009-06-05 09:20:26 am
The level times are at the bottom of this post.



* Straferunning: just like in Doom, straferunning is faster than normal running. Also works under water.
* Key/wall glitch: if there's a lock on the other side of the wall (like in mission 2, the orange and red doors), you can unlock it through the wall
* Wall/window grab: it is sometimes possible to grab items/push buttons/pull levers through the wall. I haven't found a good spot to use it yet. It is also possible to attack someone with your sword through a thin wall.
* Crate stacking: stack crates to get somewhere you couldn't get before. You won't run any slower with a crate in your arms, so you can lug it around wherever you go until you reach an obstacle. You can't have your weapon equipped while carrying stuff though.
* Slowfall potions: they'll let you fall slower, but they also slow you down on the ground. If you're worried about the damage when making several long falls (without slowfall potions), put those healing potions to use. You can jump higher than normal using a slowfall potion. If you're airborne while you quaff one, you will keep up your velocity.
* Speed potions: they'll let you run at twice the speed for about 9 seconds. So if you take 10 seconds to get one, you're wasting time.
* Soft drop: if you drop down from a ledge while crouched, you won't make any noise. This even works on tile and metal. The exception is when you take damage, Garett will say *humpf*.
* Glass breaking: pretty obvious, but you can break glass with your weapons or by jumping onto it (like in mission 2 on the roof).
* Door blocking: you can block doors from closing by placing an object next to it. This comes in handy in a mission in Thief 1, I don't know if it is usable in Thief 2.
* You run slower with your sword equipped.
* Frogbeasting/bodyboarding: You can break your fall by jumping onto people, bots, monsters and bodies. When frogbeast eggs are available, you can use them to spawn a frog directly beneath you that will break your fall. Be careful though, you can still take some damage.
* Elevatoring: you can climb up by dropping flares or scouting orbs on top of your head. If you don't have any flares left when dropping a flare, it will fall right through you, so you need at least two. Same goes for orbs.
* Forcing open a door: there are several ways to force open a locked wooden door: four overhead swings or 10 slashes with your sword, 2 fire arrows, 2 frogbeasts, 1 mine or 1 well-placed cannon ball will all work. Some doors with a metal texture are actually wooden doors, examples of this are the front door of Angelwatch and the door to the office in the basecamp in Kidnap. Metal doors will open up using mines or fire arrows, but frogs don't work. This works in the Sold Out version of the game, there are other versions in which it doesn't work.

About the guards:

* You can run faster than they can, especially when you're straferunning.
* The behaviour of guards isn't affected by items. For example: throw a burning flare in their face, they don't notice. Block their way with crates, they don't adjust their path or come up with a solution.
* Guards can't open a locked door if they haven't got the key for it.
* Guards have to be really close to sense you presence when your fully invisible, and they also have to be really close to hit you with their sword/hammer/mace.
* Guards don't clim ladders, jump, climb objects or fall down in order to chase you.
* Guards can't be pickpocketed when they're alert of your presence (chasing you or searching for you).
* Unlike civilians, guards can't be knocked out with the blackjack if they're aware of you.
* To kill a guard fast: throw 2 frogbeast eggs in his face or do an overhead swing and two sideswings in quick succession.
* Turn on auto body search to quickly grab the key off a corpse, no chance of accidentally picking up the corpse. Might wanna turn this off on Kidnap.
* Even while you're carrying someone, guards can't keep up with you. Take advantage of this in Kidnap.

About the children of Karras:

* Mechbeasts and watchers are temporarily blinded by a flash bomb.
* Combat bots can be distracted with noisemaker arrows.
* Combat bots can be destroyed with a single fire arrow if they're unaware of you, though not consistently. They can also be destroyed with two frogbeasts while unalerted, though I prefer to throw three.
* Combat bots lead their target; spider bots and sentries do not.
* Sentries can see farther than watchers.
* Watchers can't see what's underneath them. Sentries also have a blind spot, roughly the 90 degrees behind them.

Mission-specific notes:

* Running Interference: You can blow the birdcall as soon as you start the mission. Don't do it too quickly or it will take about 20 seconds for Basso to go. Instead, use it when Basso has walked into place and leans back, he will then run off immediately.
* Shipping ... and Receiving: You have to get to the office even if you already have the required loot. Most of the orange locks in building A can be opened from the other side of the wall. When a tutorial pops up telling you to use your lock picks you know you've highlighted the lock. In Gilver's office, you can grab the diamond without slashing down the banner.
* Framed: You don't have to go to the hall of records to get the code. It's always 4026. Also, if you 'elevator' yourself up the buildings at the start, you can get up onto the wall. The switch to the gate (with the two archers next to it) can be reached from the outside. When exiting the police station you don't have to open the gate; standing next to it is enough to complete the objective.
* Ambush!: You have to get the gate key even if you have already passed the gate by going OOB.
* Eavesdropping: You have to overhear the conversation even if you already have the required loot and made a wax impression of the key. You cannot run away from the door and the key location will be different every time, unless you use a savegame.
* First City Bank and Trust: You don't have to go to the hall of records to get the vault number, even though your objectives say so. It's always 11. If you get stuck on the window leading to the basement, it's probably because the handle is blocking you. Hug the window frame to pass it. If that doesn't work, try closing and opening the window. The window is actually made of wood, so you can force it open. In the unpatched version you can force open the vault door with explosives, it will go right through the metal bar.
* Blackmail: The watchers at the start are attached to wooden beams.
* Trace the Courier: Lt. Mosley and the pagan will stand in one place frome time to time to check if they're being followed. Usually Mosley only does this once in the beginning, you can avoid this by exposing yourself a little bit, she will then skip this. You can't get too far away from the letter, but when you have it in your inventory you can run around the whole map without failing the objective, at least until the pagan notices that the letter is missing.
* Life of the Party: You don't have to activate the voice machine in Karras' office. One of the guards guarding the fort (with the merlons) has a red key that you can use to open the room with the scripture. You can climb onto the bank's roof from the east side and make your way south from there. When you've reached the end of the roof you need to crouch in order to get any further, there's an invisible ceiling.
* Casing the Joint: When you blind an unalerted guard or servant with a flash bomb, it doesn't count as a 'confrontation'.
* Casing the Joint and Masks: You can exit the mansion by breaking a window. When you're on the east side of the second floor, positioning Garett just on the outside of the window frame counts as 'exited'. You can climb into the mansion through some of the windows with unbreakable glass (with the metal grates), your position has to be just right and you'll go right through.
* Sabotage at Soulforge: You have to read the correspondence from Karras to brother Kelsus, even if you put the guiding beacon in place and all of the signal towers are using signal B.

Side notes:

* In Thief 1, you accelerate after every bunnyjump. In Thief 2, you can keep up your velocity (speed potions) by bunnyhopping and you can increase it a little bit by hopping on a sloped surface (going downhill).
* The levels are different depending on the version you have, I recommend using the latest version, v1.18. This patch will update v1.07 to v1.18. If you have v1.00, you're pretty much screwed because LGS went out of business before they could release a patch for it (1.07 is the most common retail version anyway).
* Fraps doesn't capture the menu screens because they are rendered with DirectDraw (it does record the audio in the menus). This isn't really necessary because you can see in-game what difficulty the level is by counting the health shields, but it does make determining the time more difficult, as the final time is displayed in the stats screen after the mission. So unless you use a recorder that can properly record DirectDraw (like this one), you have to time it manually.
* If you use ZD Soft Game Recorder to capture, be sure to use a custom video size, or else it will default to 320x240 (or 640x480 if you capture at full screen size). This is because the menu size is 640x480. Of course this doesn't matter if you also use 640x480 in-game.
* On modern hardware, the Dark Engine might look like ass. There is a utility to fix this, ddfix. I'm not sure if it will be allowed though, as it modifies certain game files. AFAIK, gameplay is unaffected. This utility also fixes problems with multiple cores and hyperthreading.
* There is also a utility that lets you play Dark Engine games (like Thief) in widescreen. Again, I'm not sure if it will be allowed as it modifies certain game files and also isn't mandatory for recording. You can get it here. If you use it in combination with ddfix, be sure to install ddfix first.
* Fogging may look ugly on newer graphic cards, fortunately it can be turned off. If it looks good, you still want to turn it off on Life of the Party because it's broken in that mission.
* When hardware acceleration for audio is enabled, only the ambient sound is captured. Turn it off while recording.

Level times: record times are in green, all missions are done on normal difficulty

[b]MissionOld record*[b]Personal record[b]Items[b]Segments
Running Interference2:562:51n/a1
Shipping ... and Receiving2:521:551
Framed2:162:02scouting orb, slowfall potion1
Eavesdropping8:387:282 flash bombs, 2 invisibility potions, 3 speed potions2
First City Bank and Trust1:081:07**1
Blackmail3:162:162 fire arrows, invisibility potion1
Trace the Courier5:543:272 invisibility potions, 2 speed potions2
Trail of Blood3:233:212 speed potions***2
Life of the Party6:446:42fire arrow, flash bomb3
Precious Cargo5:414:412 fire arrows, healing potion, speed potion1
Kidnap3:563:432 fire arrows, invisibility potion, 2 mines, 2 speed potions***1
Casing the Joint1:481:062 invisibility potions, 2 speed potions1
Masks3:383:245 fire arows, 3 mines2
Sabotage at Soulforge11:4811:083 fire arrows, 2 frogbeast eggs, invisibility potion, 4 slow-fall potions, 3 speed potions3

*) All of the old records are either from Dreadi (see his post at the bottom of this page), from this page or from this thread (third post).

**) Using v1.07 (the unpatched version).

***) Items are carried over from the previous mission.
Thread title:  
SS - sucky speedrunner
I`m  definitely interested ! ;>
Go for it
unemployed Dragon
iam also interested.
Already have a Thief 2 video (not a speedrun) with 100% loot. But its not so entertaining to watch than real speedruns with glitches/tricks.
i would even pay for such a speedrun but unfortunately i dont have paypal =D
I am also interested, and you put up some good glitches already, nice research of these.
Edit history:
Poesta: 2008-08-09 04:15:05 pm
Thanks. I updated the level time list.

edit: Everything went so well in Blackmail until I started recording, guards popping up in the wrong places, guards blocking doorways... I eventually managed to get a time of 4:08. The hard part was getting 700 loot without deviating too much from the fastest route to Truart's bedroom. I also knocked down 6 seconds from Trail of Blood.

Here's Blackmail in 4:08 8)  (the fun starts at 1:20)
Edit history:
Poesta: 2008-08-11 07:35:24 am
Ok guys I've recorded Life of the Party (where you go to Angelwatch) and it's insane. It's full of tricks and smooth (roof) maneuvering. I've uploaded it here.

Note that I DON'T use the silver key to get into Karras' vault room. I accidentally discovered that you can also use the red key from the guard in the fort-ish building (with the merlons). You have to get 750 loot on normal difficulty, but all of the loot I encounter on my way to and inside of Angelwatch just adds up perfectly. I got a little nervous when I was on my way back at the bank (with the white-blue tiled floor) because I was afraid to fall. Somehow I had to jump three times before I could attach to the ladder near the fighting archers. Notice that the archers are all frozen, I got distracted by that. Tongue

I've updated the tricks and times. Tell me what you guys think.

edit: I've done Precious Cargo in 6:26, but it was really sloppy. Sub 6:15 is possible.

edit: Kidnap is an oddball level, as all of your items, weapons and loot get carried over from Precious Cargo. This isn't really a problem though, as you only need to use the blackjack and the lockpicks. You might want to carry over the invisibility potion from Precious Cargo, but you can just as easily pick up the one in Kidnap, on the table next to the scripture. It's not necessary, but you can use it to make sure none of the guards will kill your ass while you're lockpicking the doors to site 5. Kidnap will be around 8 minutes long. I've updated the tricks list.
Speed is everything!
I'm also very interested in seeing this run! Cheesy
The tricks/glitches and leveltimes sounds nice so far.
But at the moment I can't watch the videos because of my slow internet connection,
so I'll watch them later.... Wink

And I wish you good luck! Smiley
Edit history:
Poesta: 2008-08-11 05:32:20 pm
Thanks. I said Kidnap is gonna take about 8 minutes, well, make it 5. Grin

edit: I got 4:36. Also knocked down 23 seconds off of Precious Cargo.

edit: Here's the Kidnap run. I don't use any items from the previous level. Yes, there is something wrong with the audio when I read books (or in this case, the scripture). You might have noticed the same thing when I read the scripture in Life of the Party, I'm trying to find out what's wrong.

edit: I got 1:52 on Casing the Joint (without reading the letter), but I didn't record it. Now it seems impossible to pull off. The beginning is also pissing me off, you can get stuck in the roof of the storage shed which prevents you fron entering the manor. Angry
I love YaBB 1G - SP1!
Quote from Roy_Hess:
iam also interested.
Already have a Thief 2 video (not a speedrun) with 100% loot. But its not so entertaining to watch than real speedruns with glitches/tricks.
i would even pay for such a speedrun but unfortunately i dont have paypal =D

Interesting, I have a complete playthrough video of Thief: Gold, but I've never seen one for Theif II - do you remember where you found this?

As for above, I'm definitely interested in a T2 speedrun!
A small update: Sabotage at Soulforge will be sub 20 minutes. I haven't done any attempts at Masks or Eavesdropping. After I have the routes for every level it I'm going to knock off as much time as I can before submitting. It will propably take a month or more because school is starting again. I'm updating the tricks list.
unemployed Dragon
Quote from speon:

Interesting, I have a complete playthrough video of Thief: Gold, but I've never seen one for Theif II - do you remember where you found this?

As for above, I'm definitely interested in a T2 speedrun!

good question i dont remember it anymore
a short google gave me this one:
search term: thief 2 walkthrough video
Edit history:
Poesta: 2008-08-28 01:26:32 pm
Just shaved off 40 seconds in Ambush! using a new route. Grin Still isn't perfect though.

edit: updated some stuff.

edit: Ambush! is 8 seconds shorter thanks to a new route. First City Bank and Trust might become sub 5:30 and Casing the Joint will be 1:4x.
Found a weird glitch in First City Bank and Trust and made a video of it. Check it out here.
I started doing a speedrun of thief 2 like 4 years ago or something and recorded all but the last level and then I just sort of dropped the project... basically because Soulforge just sucks so much and drove me nuts.
I was playing on hard (which is the medium difficulty after all) and I DID buy stuff from the store.
I think I got just about the best routes for this type of run and my recorded times are as follow:
Running: 3:00
Shipping: 3:59
Framed: 2:16
Ambush!: 2:21
Eavesdropping: 8:38
Bank: 3:58
Blackmail: 3:53
Courier: 5:54
Blood: 3:23
Party: 7:20
Cargo: 6:57
Kidnap: 4:23
Casing: 1:48
Masks: 5:56

There aren't many major tricks you can abuse. Just good route planning and good execution.
There's ofcourse some exceptions. I didn't see you mention a thief trick called "elevatoring" which you can do best with flares (but it can be done with at least scouting orbs). In this trick you need more than one of the used item or it won't work. It basically allows you to mantle on the item that you drop directly on your head and you can get to whatever height you please but it's timeconsuming. I use this trick in framed to get on the wall right at beginning of the mission using a scouting orb I bought. This allows me to get on the buildings and use a slowfall-potionjump (which allows you to jump higher and a lot longer if timed correctly) to get on the policestation wall.
In Trace the courier you can reduce the gametime a lot by guiding the Mosley with a noisemaker arrow. As long as she doesn't see you it's gonna be okay for her to be on full alert. When you guide her to the rigth place the trigger for her dropping the letter is going to activate. When the pagan picks up the letter you now guide him to the cemetery go through the secret door into the cemetery, mantle on a tombstone and over the wall (which is a bit tricky) and run into the portal. It counts as a success if the pagan is just close enough.
In Trail of blood I jump over a big gap using a speedpotion and timing a slowfall-potionjump perfectly to skip a part of the mission.
Life of the party is a perfect mission to use a neat trick that allows you to jump from any height without taking damage. You'll need more than one frogbeast egg for this one (or else it won't work if I remember right). As you're falling you throw a frogbeast egg under yourself just before you hit the ground. You'll bounce off the frogbeast to the side and take no damage at all. I used it 3 times in the party.
In Masks I open a few locked doors by alerting the camera near them and letting the cannon turret blast the doors open (just stand in front of the door and dodge the cannonball at the right moment.)

I hope this helps a bit cause I can't be arsed to finish the run although I still have the videos.
unemployed Dragon
nice times so far and a funny glitch video in "first city bank and trust"
the pysics simulations in computer games can be so funny
i only say: Oblivion

Edit history:
Poesta: 2008-09-01 01:43:57 pm
Those are some cool tricks. I do skip a part in Trail of Blood by wading through the poison river right after the eyeball plants, but I don't use a speed potion like you do.

I have some questions for you:
Do you go out of bounds anywhere in your runs? I've done that in mission 4,5 and 10 but I haven't found a way to save time going OOB.
Is there a way to speed up Basso on Running Interference, or is it just luck? My personal best is 3:08 (not recorded).
Do you have a preference where the key will appear on Eavesdropping?
I assume that you skip reading the letter in Casing the Joint and instead do it in Masks?
Which version did you use?
Could you upload some of your videos somewhere? I would especially like to see mission 4, 9 and 10. Grin

I'm gonna update the trick list tomorrow, I don't have any time right now.
Btw, if you haven't bought items for a mission you recorded, you could upload it to SDA. There is a rule that all of the levels must be completed in a category to be uploaded, but I can complete those that you haven't recorded. I assume that you buy items in all of the levels except those in which you can't, but that could be a seperate category.
As I told you I get on the buildings in the beginning of framed Framed. It's not outside the bounds but it's a place where you're not supposed to get to. Also in Life of the party I use speedpotion to jump on the bank when heading back to the belltower.

As far as I know the time Basso takes on Running interference is somewhat random and varies somewhere between 2:50 and 3:20.

I start my recording at the start of a mission (since I used fraps which didn't record the menu screens) so I just kept restarting Eavesdropping until the right key was in the guard barracks which I thought was the best place for it. Then if the run failed I loaded from the save and the key's location stayed the same.

Yep I skip the letter in casing the joint and in Masks I reckon there is no letter. Taking the cultivator in the 3rd floor in Masks completes that objective.

I used the vanilla version (1.07). A bit dumb but the patch doesn't change many things as far as the speedrun goes.

I'll see about uploading the videos when I have some time...
I didn't know you could skip the letter. The elevator trick works, but not always. In some missions I can only mantle onto flares and not onto orbs, but neither does work in Framed or Sabotage at Soulforge. I've tried both v1.07 and v1.18 in Framed.
Remember that you need more than one of the used item to do it. It won't work if you have just 1 flare or orb in your inventory. And to do it continuously to get higher and higher you need a minimum of three of the same item.
Edit history:
Poesta: 2008-09-06 07:42:30 am
Yeah you're right. I can't seem to stack multiple orbs though, they can also not be combined with flares. I've found some differences between the patches that affect the run: in Ambush!, there's a speed potion in Garrett's stash, but not in the unpatched version; in Casing the Joint, on normal difficulty the cuckoo is hidden somewhere else (in the workshop instead of in the foyer). I also think that you can't damage guards by throwing hammers at them, so I'm taking it off the list.

Could you tell me the route you used in Casing the Joint?

Edit: here's a humorous illustrated walkthrough I found, with all kinds of glitches: *clicky*.

Edit: I've updated the level time list.
I don't know about normal difficulty but I just checked and the cuckoo is in the same place (the foyer) on both versions on hard. Here's my run of casing:;11689515;/fileinfo.html
Not really perfect...

I also made a vid of how elevatoring works with 3 orbs:;11689766;/fileinfo.html
It's a lot slower and harder than with flares but it can be done.

I also noticed that the quality of my raw vids has increased greatly with my new computer.
Why didn't you buy invisibility potions in Casing the Joint? It would save you from having to douse the lamp. You also wouldn't have to deactivate the sentry. Also, breaking the glass is faster than lockpicking the door. You gave me an idea for a timesaver though. Could you upload Life of the Party? I'm very curious for that speedrun.

For some strange reason, I can only play v1.07 levels on my v1.18 installation of Thief 2, and the patch doesn't work on a fresh installation. I've written down some potential timesavers (13 as of now) that I'm going to test, but first I have to get a working v1.18 installation.
I didn't buy an invispotion because 1) I didn't have enough money 2) If I can get 2 speedpotions at the price of one invispotion I'd never buy the invis potion in the first place 3) They're not for sale on hard.

As I said that run wasn't perfect. I failed the jump to the window and just never recorded again. I think 1:40 is possible for casing.

Here's my run of LotP which I did in 3 segments:;11702889;/fileinfo.html

And Trail of blood:;11702976;/fileinfo.html
Edit history:
Poesta: 2008-09-06 06:39:19 am
Nice vids. Thief 2 is working again, I managed to finish Casing the Joint in 1:20 8). I'm focusing on too many missions at once, I'll start recording the first four missions tomorrow.
Just recorded some great times: mission 1 in 2:54, mission 2 in 2:17 and mission 3 in 2:06. Mission 2 and 3 are just optimizations, but in mission 1 I found a trick to get Basso to run earlier than normal: wait until Basso walks inside and turns around. Then, when he leans backwards, use the birdcall. He'll start running immediately.