The Godfather Don's Edition

2014-04-07 02:17:05 pm

I have been speed running Godfather Don's edition since 4 months ago. after countless resetting and making separate runs I finally finished making an improved segmented run. I'm uploading the files and hopefully it would get accepted. Anyways I hope others would speed run this game and/or the other versions which is the original (PS2, Xbox, PC) and Blackhand (Wii). I'll leave this post here and later update it with info, guides & strategies. has anyone played or interested in playing this game?

Thread title:

LotBlind

2014-04-08 10:56:52 am

The GTA 3 trick I mentioned is simple: when you switch the camera to a helicopter view after a second it stops spawning any traffic because it's only spawned where the player is looking. Maybe this one doesn't have that view? Besides most of the time you seem to be able to toot your way through.

BTW If you wanna start documenting the tricks you've found you might as well create a strategy guide for the game. All you need to do is type in the name of the game after the knowledge base main address, i.e. like this: https://kb.speeddemosarchive.com/Contra

You can also use the Contra one as a guide for how they want you to make it, so there's a separate page for each category. You can still post your new findings and whatever you like in this thread.

Soliduz Znake

2014-04-08 01:47:40 pm

I don't think there is a trick like that in the game since there is no bird's eye view angle like in GTA. there are only 3 camera views which close, medium or far. I know rotating the camera while on foot usually causes cars to spawn in front or back depending on where you face. As for driving the camera only rotates 90 degrees left/right by titling the R3 stick but then automatically turns back once you lift your thumb/finger off the R3 stick. honking the horn or tooting is very convenient but not always reliable. sometimes the cars would turn later or too late which causes me to either pass the narrow gap between the cars or go around them. what makes it worse is that not only are the roads tight but the obstacles like lamp poles, crates, garbage can & newspaper stands slow down my car. -_-

I don't know about writing a strategy but I'll think about it. thanks for the advice really helpful. Cheesy

LotBlind

Edit history:

LotBlind: 2014-04-11 11:42:47 am

2014-04-10 10:36:56 am

"Strategy guide" really just means listing any useful information you have of the game even if it's only individual tricks. You can also leave a link to [your] best time there so at least there's something to go by if someone later wants to pick the game up.

I noticed that there's another run in verification queue for this game... That's not yours by any chance?

Yeah, I'm continuing to watch your run, I'll edit in the rest here (I left off halfway through segment 3).

General:
-if you're segmenting between each mission or so you really should learn where you can cut corners and you have to remember what kinds of intersections there are and how to best handle them.
-if the run is timed in real time (there's no in-game timer at the end), have you considered the possibility of a death warp anywhere? Could you finish a mission, die and get warped somewhere good?

37:48 - Here it distinctly looks like you could cut the corner from the in-curve to avoid the objects.
45:40 - Saw this coming. It's clear you haven't been playing too many games that feature driving. Or are you looking at the map? Well in any case I'm sure it'll be okay with your next submission.
49:00 - Needless to say, a missed objective like this looks really bad.

Segment 4
This segment wouldn't have passed verification either. It's now pretty short so the amount of crashing is really too high. Also you could have parked the car a bit closer to the dealer? Maybe this mission could be survived all on one health bar? Again, you have to learn the route by heart. The Monk fight looks pretty swift, I think you have a good strategy for it. Again, should've decided which upgrade to get in advance.
8:40 - even though it's not a requirement for SDA runs, entertaining antics during waiting time are never a bad idea.
Tessio mission looking good.

Segment 5
In the casino mission, your strats look a bit too safe probably seeing as you have the two health potions to work with. In a segmented you have to use strats that are pretty likely to cause a fail on each given attempt. Did you test saving some of the molotovs for this mission (or do items carry over at all?)

"Strategy guide" really just means listing any useful information you have of the game even if it's only individual tricks. You can also leave a link to [your] best time there so at least there's something to go by if someone later wants to pick the game up.

I noticed that there's another run in verification queue for this game... That's not yours by any chance?

Yeah, I'm continuing to watch your run, I'll edit in the rest here (I left off halfway through segment 3).

General:
-if you're segmenting between each mission or so you really should learn where you can cut corners and you have to remember what kinds of intersections there are and how to best handle them.
-if the run is timed in real time (there's no in-game timer at the end), have you considered the possibility of a death warp anywhere? Could you finish a mission, die and get warped somewhere good?

37:48 - Here it distinctly looks like you could cut the corner from the in-curve to avoid the objects.
45:40 - Saw this coming. It's clear you haven't been playing too many games that feature driving. Or are you looking at the map? Well in any case I'm sure it'll be okay with your next submission.
49:00 - Needless to say, a missed objective like this looks really bad.

Segment 4
This segment wouldn't have passed verification either. It's now pretty short so the amount of crashing is really too high. Also you could have parked the car a bit closer to the dealer? Maybe this mission could be survived all on one health bar? Again, you have to learn the route by heart. The Monk fight looks pretty swift, I think you have a good strategy for it. Again, should've decided which upgrade to get in advance.
8:40 - even though it's not a requirement for SDA runs, entertaining antics during waiting time are never a bad idea.
Tessio mission looking good.

Segment 5
In the casino mission, your strats look a bit too safe probably seeing as you have the two health potions to work with. In a segmented you have to use strats that are pretty likely to cause a fail on each given attempt. Did you test saving some of the molotovs for this mission (or do items carry over at all?)

Soliduz Znake

2014-04-11 02:59:12 am

yes I submitted the run. by the time I read the feedbacks I had been practicing and improved on previous runs. as soon as I read the public verification comments I went ahead and did the run from scratch.

the in game timer can only be seen in save files.
I don't find teleporting after dying useful because most of the doctor locations are unfavorable. Also it takes time and maybe ammo to commit suicide as well counting the times for the loading screen it is useless.

I edited a map to show the locations of missions, hit list targets, banks, safe houses and weapons.

Attachment:

Godfather Don's edition map speed run.jpg

Soliduz Znake

2014-04-11 07:59:58 am

while you're on this thread LtBlind why not give your thoughts on a low%/100% for Godfather in this thread:
https://forum.speeddemosarchive.com/post/the_godfather_dons_edition_low100_definitions.html

thanks Cheesy

LotBlind

2014-04-11 11:43:20 am

So remember that instead of doing a whole run and submitting, if you just wanna check what responses you might get for your running you can just upload some segments on YouTube and link them here. This is especially useful if the game doesn't allow you to go back and retry a segment without having to redo everything that comes afterwards. I was surprised that you had had the time to do a whole run from scratch and I admit I have to be a little dubious if you managed to improve that much since you read the verification comments.

Maybe you had already thought of this, but when you do a segmented run, remember that luck manipulation is part of the process. You should have exceptionally good luck as well as good performance in any segments you decide to keep. Finding a fast car quickly is important and not having to switch cars a lot is too. You shouldn't be rushing this thing out, you'll just get burnt out unless you take each attempt as a learning opportunity.

Soliduz Znake

2014-04-11 01:20:14 pm

I had some few runs while the run was on verification que. I wasn't expecting it would end up in public verification so I guess I had a lot of time to try out new things. Also I ended up using a map on my laptop instead of using the in game map so it made thing easier. the driving is on of the main issue nothing like GTA or other games. the cars feel heavier and less responsive compared to GTA 3, VC, SA. Also unlike GTA you could easily outrun your the NPCs that are chasing you and are limited. In Godfather they will catch up to you no matter how fast you drive as if they have nitrous or turbo inside their cars and the NPCs that keep despawning & spawning.

LotBlind

2014-04-12 03:00:18 pm

Okay, well do whatever you can within the game's limitations. In more than one place you just crash into something that you didn't actually even try to dodge. I can't see it being all the game. I also saw a video where someone wasn't crashing nearly as much HOWEVER that was on the 360 so can't directly compare I guess.

So what about that trick of not allowing them to cheat with the "nitro" by using the rear view more like someone had suggested? Are you doing that as much as you can?

Segment 6:
3:03 - this is an example of good cornering.
7:34 - When you hit some of these mission entry points, I think I saw somewhere in the run you accidentally doing the crash stop even if it wasn't really necessary.
11:34 - if there's a way of anticipating a move like this, good, but it doesn't look as bad a mistake because it just looks like it's so sudden...
15:53 - again doesn't look as bad seeing as the car came from behind the corner.
All in all a pretty good segment minus the deaths. Do you wait for safety at the end?

So that's right about everything I think I can do for you. I'll do any other verifications if I find the time, though if they look better than this one, anyone who's doing it might give it the accept next time.

Okay, well do whatever you can within the game's limitations. In more than one place you just crash into something that you didn't actually even try to dodge. I can't see it being all the game. I also saw a video where someone wasn't crashing nearly as much HOWEVER that was on the 360 so can't directly compare I guess.

So what about that trick of not allowing them to cheat with the "nitro" by using the rear view more like someone had suggested? Are you doing that as much as you can?

Segment 6:
3:03 - this is an example of good cornering.
7:34 - When you hit some of these mission entry points, I think I saw somewhere in the run you accidentally doing the crash stop even if it wasn't really necessary.
11:34 - if there's a way of anticipating a move like this, good, but it doesn't look as bad a mistake because it just looks like it's so sudden...
15:53 - again doesn't look as bad seeing as the car came from behind the corner.
All in all a pretty good segment minus the deaths. Do you wait for safety at the end?

So that's right about everything I think I can do for you. I'll do any other verifications if I find the time, though if they look better than this one, anyone who's doing it might give it the accept next time.

Soliduz Znake

2014-04-13 09:29:47 am

the rear view will be risky since I have to watch for incoming traffic. Also I try to use them as speed boost if they were ram me from behind but very difficult to anticipate which direction they would go.

thanks for taking the time really appreciate it.

Soliduz Znake

2014-07-25 03:43:49 pm

I forgot to upload these runs sooner. better late than never :S
https://www.youtube.com/playlist?list=PLjOLfB3XPsJD3orXVA_7XZKzaOVZ53DyJ

I think more optimization is required and also single segment vs segmented needs comparisons I will try to make.

Soliduz Znake

2014-07-25 04:07:45 pm

Very important I need some advice when should manual timing start or should I refer to the in-game timer. I'm not sure about in-game timer being accurate since it counts the character customization + intro cutscene before once the player has actual control of the character.

Soliduz Znake

2014-07-25 06:28:02 pm

made some test lap comparing different fastest vehicles:

not much difference but every second count I guess.

Soliduz Znake

Edit history:

Soliduz Znake: 2014-07-30 06:26:07 pm

Soliduz Znake: 2014-07-29 08:12:36 pm

2014-07-29 07:54:24 pm

ok I tried 1st time a single segment for 3 hours only to have it completely ruined when the game crashed......RIGHT AT THE END!!!!! ( "O'_'O)
anyways will link the video as soon as I upload it on YT....if the hard drive doesn't screw me over.

edit: finally got uploaded and processed.

Soliduz Znake

2014-08-02 08:57:24 am

I'll upload segments not it will be final decision but for the sake pre-verifying making it convenient for me. if the segments I upload get sign of approval I'll probably go for single segment submission.

LotBlind

2014-08-07 09:35:17 am

Don't know about the timer question (post it in the SDA discussion forum?) but I watched your new 1st segment and it's looking a bunch better. Well I watched the first 45 minutes. At least you're not using the map any more.

So about the skills: Do they appear in random order? It seems you don't always know for sure which one you want to pick. Don't you have a plan that you follow every time? Are you using the horn more or the same as before? I can't exactly remember...

How much time did you save over the submitted one? And also why are you uploading segments but wanna submit a single segment? What things have changed since the last submission? Also did you think about adding more segments to the segmented? I'm sorry I can't remember what was said about that...

23:56 - Looks like you forgot which way to go?
34:03 - Couldn't you have just taken the right lane that was clear at that moment?
38:30 - this whole affair went SO MUCH SMOOTHER than last time.
43:45 - Dunno how much it would help but what if you briefly used the rear view or another camera view to check if there's a car in the way? You could briefly see the car before you entered your car BTW, though admittedly I never noticed it until the second time watching. Could you possibly have hugged the wall to the right of the car you crash into?

Anyway, if the whole run has a similar level of consistency (well, if it's single segment a few more mistakes are allowed as we talked last time) then I don't see why it'd get rejected this time around.

Don't know about the timer question (post it in the SDA discussion forum?) but I watched your new 1st segment and it's looking a bunch better. Well I watched the first 45 minutes. At least you're not using the map any more.

So about the skills: Do they appear in random order? It seems you don't always know for sure which one you want to pick. Don't you have a plan that you follow every time? Are you using the horn more or the same as before? I can't exactly remember...

How much time did you save over the submitted one? And also why are you uploading segments but wanna submit a single segment? What things have changed since the last submission? Also did you think about adding more segments to the segmented? I'm sorry I can't remember what was said about that...

23:56 - Looks like you forgot which way to go?
34:03 - Couldn't you have just taken the right lane that was clear at that moment?
38:30 - this whole affair went SO MUCH SMOOTHER than last time.
43:45 - Dunno how much it would help but what if you briefly used the rear view or another camera view to check if there's a car in the way? You could briefly see the car before you entered your car BTW, though admittedly I never noticed it until the second time watching. Could you possibly have hugged the wall to the right of the car you crash into?

Anyway, if the whole run has a similar level of consistency (well, if it's single segment a few more mistakes are allowed as we talked last time) then I don't see why it'd get rejected this time around.

Soliduz Znake

Edit history:

Soliduz Znake: 2014-08-07 12:18:13 pm

Soliduz Znake: 2014-08-07 12:17:54 pm

2014-08-07 12:15:43 pm

about the in game time I noticed in the save file it said 1:40 I loaded but the video file it self is 1:27 so it is clear the in game timer is not accurate but wanted to make sure. I also forgot to mention in the thread that there in between mission where the next mission only unlocks after a period of time has passed and they occur 2 times in the game. before the 5th mission unlocks after 4 - 5 minutes and 10th mission unlocks after 9 - 10 minutes. in those I will be taking it a bit casually since simple mistakes don't affect the time any way. I'm not sure about to pick single segment or segmented run but I'm thinking segmented would be faster since in single segments I had weird moments happening in the game.

about the skills list I take my time just be safe because sometimes the control can be very sensitive and I would waste skills points in the wrong trait.

Quote from LotBlind:

23:56 - Looks like you forgot which way to go?
34:03 - Couldn't you have just taken the right lane that was clear at that moment?
38:30 - this whole affair went SO MUCH SMOOTHER than last time.
43:45 - Dunno how much it would help but what if you briefly used the rear view or another camera view to check if there's a car in the way? You could briefly see the car before you entered your car BTW, though admittedly I never noticed it until the second time watching. Could you possibly have hugged the wall to the right of the car you crash into?

23:56 in that time I have to wait about 4 - 5 mins for the next mission to unlock so it looks like a mistake but it won't affect the time since message pops out tells me to check the phone which means mission 5 is unlocked.
34:03 minor mistake I honked the horn too late. usually they turn immediately after the horn but minor mistake.
43:45 that was a 'that didn't happen before' moment. usually my target is always alone but never seen that happen. also I thought it would end my run if continued. so it was on the way and I lost about 16 secs.

I hope if all things do go well. aside from that I only need feed back before submitting the run and make it official. thank for the help LotBlind.

about the in game time I noticed in the save file it said 1:40 I loaded but the video file it self is 1:27 so it is clear the in game timer is not accurate but wanted to make sure. I also forgot to mention in the thread that there in between mission where the next mission only unlocks after a period of time has passed and they occur 2 times in the game. before the 5th mission unlocks after 4 - 5 minutes and 10th mission unlocks after  9 - 10 minutes. in those I will be taking it a bit casually since simple mistakes don't affect the time any way. I'm not sure about to pick single segment or segmented run but I'm thinking segmented would be faster since in single segments I had weird moments happening in the game.

about the skills list I take my time just be safe because sometimes the control can be very sensitive and I would waste skills points in the wrong trait.

[quote="LotBlind"]
23:56 - Looks like you forgot which way to go?
34:03 - Couldn't you have just taken the right lane that was clear at that moment?
38:30 - this whole affair went SO MUCH SMOOTHER than last time.
43:45 - Dunno how much it would help but what if you briefly used the rear view or another camera view to check if there's a car in the way? You could briefly see the car before you entered your car BTW, though admittedly I never noticed it until the second time watching. Could you possibly have hugged the wall to the right of the car you crash into?
[/quote]

23:56 in that time I have to wait about 4 - 5 mins for the next mission to unlock so it looks like a mistake but it won't affect the time since message pops out tells me to check the phone which means mission 5 is unlocked.
34:03 minor mistake I honked the horn too late. usually they turn immediately after the horn but minor mistake.
43:45 that was a 'that didn't happen before' moment. usually my target is always alone but never seen that happen. also I thought it would end my run if continued. so it was on the way and I lost about 16 secs.

I hope if all things do go well. aside from that I only need feed back before submitting the run and make it official. thank for the help LotBlind.

Soliduz Znake

2014-08-07 10:21:07 pm

here is segment 2:

some minor issues but overall great.

LotBlind

2014-08-08 09:48:08 am

Okay, I don't really have time to review any more segments right now but I think the first segment looked submittable so keep it up! See you in verification by latest. When you submit another run now make sure to include some run comments (I think you did last time) saying something about the things that verifiers are likely to note as potential mistakes. It helps both the submitter and the verifiers especially seeing as this will probably end up in public again.

Soliduz Znake

2014-08-08 08:15:21 pm

Soliduz Znake

2014-08-08 09:35:34 pm

Soliduz Znake

Edit history:

Soliduz Znake: 2014-08-09 08:54:30 am

2014-08-09 08:32:21 am

finally done with the segments. though it is about 5 minutes faster than the previous run I'm not entirely sure should I submit it since of minor issues that might not be accepted.

LotBlind

2014-08-09 12:14:02 pm

Okay, I took a brief look at the segment that's 10:54 long as an example. I think missing any cutscene skips or losing too much time trying to get them in a segment as short as that actually constitutes a problem. You should at least hit all of those with no unintended crashing with the cars for a likely accept. Also the death is really bad-looking. So you're right, it wouldn't get an accept as it is. Getting cars faster is also probably possible right? So all those things pretty much have to click in short segments like that. Grind grind grind... a few attempts each day. You'll get there. You still didn't say anything about why you can't segment the first two segments further? Is there no convenient saving opportunities?

Soliduz Znake

Edit history:

Soliduz Znake: 2014-08-09 01:15:33 pm

2014-08-09 01:15:04 pm

yeah the only problem I have are the cutscene skip glitch. they work randomly and other times I can get them to work earlier if lucky. overall at least I know how the new run will turn out. I thought more segments would make it less credible run plus the saving count in the timing?! anyways back to grinding.

LotBlind

2014-08-10 01:52:01 pm

The saving counts in the timing up till the point when you've reached the actual save menu (unless you do any more menuing after that) so yeah... however like we were maybe saying earlier it's best to either go single-segment or if you do segmented use as many segments as can conceivably save time if you're not afraid of having to manipulate a lot of things to go more or less right inside each segment. Right now it's kind of in-between, so yeah factoring in the time it takes to reach a saving location try to use all opportunities where segmentation could potentially save more time if there are any. There have been runs with 100+ segments although in such cases the runners could usually save at any time.

About getting the cutscene skips: you should set a goal of getting luck that's in the highest 10% (or so) of the bell curve while having good execution in the same segment. Manipulating the luck (grinding it until you get such a segment) is a very common thing that recurs from run to run.

The saving counts in the timing up till the point when you've reached the actual save menu (unless you do any more menuing after that) so yeah... however like we were maybe saying earlier it's best to either go single-segment or if you do segmented use as many segments as can conceivably save time if you're not afraid of having to manipulate a lot of things to go more or less right inside each segment. Right now it's kind of in-between, so yeah factoring in the time it takes to reach a saving location try to use all opportunities where segmentation could potentially save more time if there are any. There have been runs with 100+ segments although in such cases the runners could usually save at any time.

About getting the cutscene skips: you should set a goal of getting luck that's in the highest 10% (or so) of the bell curve while having good execution in the same segment. Manipulating the luck (grinding it until you get such a segment) is a very common thing that recurs from run to run.