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Is PJ
Hahaha I love your splits.  Good work, Yagamoth (and everybody else involved)!
Edit history:
Crow!: 2014-10-20 02:20:04 pm
Crow!: 2014-10-20 11:02:54 am
Crow!: 2014-10-20 10:59:58 am
What's that gemma?
Actually, we can use C9F2D4: Jump 04FD rather than grinding the pointer all the way to CA4D96, and save 30% of the address grinding if you want the credits.

The following sequence of button presses, starting from when the empty windows appear, will take you to the complete ending as though you had just defeated the Mana Beast.  The memory addresses reached along the way are denoted on the right side; if there were some particular event along the way that you wanted to execute, you could look up its number and some appropriate number of extra <'s to reach it.

Important note: if the game lags hard enough on a left press, it may sound like it has pressed a button twice when indeed it has been pressed only once.  If you're ever uncertain how many times you've pressed left, you can reset yourself to zero by pressing right.

Code:
< B	90A64
B x19	
< (Bx7)	90C96
< B	90E96
(at this point < B wins)
<x11 B	91084
<x12 B	9126E
(<B)x6	91E6E
<x4 B	92068
<x2 B	92264
(<B)x6	92E64
<x11 B	93050
<x5 B	93248
< B
< B	93648
< x5 B	93840
(<B)x5
< (Bx3)	94444
<  B	94644
< B	94844
< (Bx18)	94A66
< B	94C66
<x5 B	94E5E
Bx8
(<B) x4	9566E
<x3 B	9586A
< B
< (Bx2)	95C6C
< B	95E6C
<B
<B
< (Bx15)	96488
<B	96688
< (Bx5)	96890
< B	96A90
(<B) x9	97C90
<x6 B	97E86
< B	98086
< (Bx6)	98290
<B	98490
<x25 B	98660
(<B)x9	99860
Bx9
< B	99A72
Bx3
< B	99C78
<x10 B	99E66
(<B)x4	9A666
Bx2	9A66A
(<B)x5	9B06A
B, <, B	9B26C
(<B)x12	9CA6C
<x47 B	9CC10
<B
<, <, B	9D00E
(<B)x6	9DC0E
<x8 B	9DE00
(<B)x7	9EC00
<x5 B	9EDF8
<, B, B	9EFFA
<B	9F1FA
<x148, B	9F2D4

9F2D4 will jump you to the complete ending.
Edit history:
Yagamoth: 2014-10-20 02:03:43 pm
INTJ
Wow, thanks a ton for that. Definitely better than me figuring it out by trial & error Smiley

Edit:
<x10 99E66

?
What's that gemma?
Fixed.  My older notation was to omit the B on each line that only featured one B press, and I missed that line when making everything more explicit.
INTJ
Ok... I managed to kind of input the entire thing. I'm not sure I did it all correct, since the ending dialog was a complete scrambled mess... But it's interesting.

Always on the 2nd "<" the game lags a bit and plays two separate sounds, even though you only press left once. Around 110 or so left-presses, the game does that again and for now for pretty much every following "<" press.. Which can confuse, since for a short bit it doesn't accept any other input too, which can seriously mess you up.

it took me 10+ to do that btw oô

On a sidenote, your notation seems to be a bit inconsistent at times ^^
What's that gemma?
I wonder what all matters for getting the ending to play properly.  I had started it with only the boy in the party, starting from the Potos cannon when I tested it on emulator, and it played as normal then.

Another note: a couple of the event options screw up SNES9x super bad.  Like, even if you reload a save state or reset, the emulator is still horribly screwed up.  I don't know what would happen if you landed on one of those by accident while operating on console.
INTJ
I don't know. But things screwing up so bad, that you have to reload the rom is relatively common in Secret of Mana. I had that fairly often already. Not sure if that's an snes9x exclusive thing (Example: Trigger an event with 2 characters at once, like Mara at Southtown or Jema in Tasnica) and then try to load a savestate.
Edit history:
Binarynova: 2014-10-23 01:45:38 pm
So, hello everyone. New to the SoM thread. Smiley Having only been looking into this for a few hours, it looks like there's only a single frame upon which you can trigger the glitched dialog choice. I paused Snes9x and savestated on the last frame the "A's barreled." message appears, and if I frame advance 9 times and hold B when I resume, the glitched dialog appears. It doesn't work if I only advance 8 or advance 10. Sad

I thought I could use the barrel's bouncing animation to find a visual cue, but no luck so far. It appears to be the last frame of the 6th bounce. Right before the barrel drops again. I'll keep poking at it though.

Great job to everyone involved in finding this glitch!
Edit history:
Yagamoth: 2014-10-23 09:15:01 pm
Yagamoth: 2014-10-23 02:02:08 pm
Yagamoth: 2014-10-23 02:02:07 pm
INTJ
Hey Binarynova, thanks for looking at it ^^

The barrel bouncing animation is unfortunately bound to the games 5-frame rule. So it gives a pretty poor indicator of when you'd need to press. To quote HHS from tasvideos:

Quote:
he game has a 5 frame cycle where it does the following:
Frame 1: Animate enemy 1 or NPC 1, 2, 3, sort sprites
Frame 2: Check if level 8 spell has ended, animate enemy 2 or NPC 4, 5, 6
Frame 3: Animate enemy 3 or NPC 7, 8, 9, process various buttons
Frame 4: Run game script, animate players, animate the man's weapon
Frame 5: Perform tinting, animate the woman's and the sprite's weapon


So only every (4 + X*5)th frame the animation is being updated

My initial thought was finding a spot to start and slowly walking towards the NPC and -just- pressing B once you arrive there. Haven't found anything clever yet though

Good luck Smiley
Ah gotcha. I wasn't aware of the 5-frame rule. Thank you!

Right now I'm working on figuring out the sequence of Left and B presses to trigger the credits. But I need to step away from the computer and get ready for work. Angry lol

Good luck on finding a walking path to trigger the glitch. I may try that too later tonight.
INTJ
I made a quick pastebin for triggering the credits, since I totally didn't realize we haven't documented that anywhere yet

http://pastebin.com/TWPSdjn3

Code:
SoM Wrong Warp to The End
 
>
<
B
B x19
<
B x7
<
B
<
B
 
=====================================
With explanation
 
>       To reset the Option-select (Optional if you know where you are)
<       After the first "left" input there is a bit of a delay before you can do another input
B       After pressing "B" there is a bit of a delay before you can do another input
B x19   In theory you can simply keep "B" pressed after the previous B-Press. If you are good enough :P
<       Don't forget the delay
B x7    Same deal, you can simply keep "B" pressed if you are good enough
<       Delay
B       Delay
<       Delay
B       The End
Thanks! Pastebin worked like a charm! Now I'm just trying lots of different positions (mostly in the lower-left hand corner) in the Cannon Travel room to see if I can get an easy to start path that stops moving on the same frame you need to hit B.

If I find anything I'll post it here!
INTJ
Awesome, thank you Smiley
Edit history:
Binarynova: 2014-10-24 02:19:54 am
Binarynova: 2014-10-24 02:10:09 am
Binarynova: 2014-10-24 02:09:30 am
Well. I found an okay spot. It works for me far more often than simply standing in front of the cannon travel guy (which honestly I can't get at all).

Start here by walking up against the rock, then stepping down slightly (note foot placement): http://imgur.com/gpMsYls
Use Barrel and immediately start walking right.
As soon as your front leg hits this tree start walking up: http://imgur.com/xbLoyxg

If you lined it up correctly Randi won't self-adjust his horizontal position. When Randi stops walking up, hit B. Depending on when exactly you turned to walk up, you have to wait 2-4 frames after stopping. Obviously it's still very precise, but I was able to get this on emu several times, and on console too (once I realized I needed to re-save the game at Neko at the start of every reset, lol).

Tempted to get on stream right now, but it's late here and I can stream it when I wake up in the morning. So if nothing else I should have a highlight available sometime tomorrow with my setup in it. *fingers crossed*

Thanks again to everyone involved, in this thread and threads on Gamefaqs, and elsewhere!
SPEEDruns not SAFEruns
Congrats on the 9:12 Nova!
Hey! Thanks Deuceler!
Edit history:
Overfiendvip: 2014-10-25 11:57:44 am
           never a frown
I've been learning how to execute the glitch by using the barrel-shaking animation as a visual cue, as opposed to having a full-blown setup. I think watching how the barrel shakes could prove to be more efficient compared to a visual setup where human error becomes more involved, as doing this allows you to stand right in front of the Cannon Traveler immediately. I tried similar things like counting out loud or trying to find an audio cue so you could time using the barrel with the background music, but I'm not sure any efficient ones exist, and again, I think it leaves more room for human error to occur.

The issue with this may be something with frame rules, something I don't understand enough about, since I understand (and get into below) that the barrel doesn't always have the same animation pattern depending on when you use it. I initially thought that the Cannon Traveler's animation could be used somehow, since both the animation of his arms being inward and the animation of his arms being outward last for ten frames.

The following two animation patterns can occur after equipping a barrel:

Pattern 1

-cloud disappears-
5 frames of standing*
5 frames of standing w/ sword aggro stance*
10 frames of standing w/ sword and raised heel*
6 frames of standing w/ sword normal stance*
6 frames of barrel in-ground*
6 frames of barrel low**
12 frames of barrel high (message appears on 5th)
10 frames of barrel low
10 frames of barrel high
10 frames of barrel low
10 frames of barrel high
10 frames of barrel low
10 frames of barrel high
10 frames of barrel low
10 frames of barrel high
10 frames of barrel low
10 frames of barrel high (message disappears on 2nd - 99 frame duration)
10 frames of barrel low (input should happen on 1st?)

Pattern 2

-cloud disappears-
5 frames of standing*
5 frames of standing w/ sword aggro stance*
10 frames of standing w/ sword and raised heel*
6 frames of standing w/ sword normal stance*
6 frames of barrel in-ground*
9 frames of barrel low** (message appears on 8th)
10 frames of barrel high
10 frames of barrel low
10 frames of barrel high
10 frames of barrel low
10 frames of barrel high
10 frames of barrel low
10 frames of barrel high
10 frames of barrel low
10 frames of barrel high
10 frames of barrel low (message disappears on 8th - 99 frame duration)
10 frames of barrel high (input should happen on 7th?)

*These should always happen regardless of pattern
**The barrel should always start low here regardless of pattern - the amount of frames it is low for is a different story

I did not receive any other pattern besides these two after many, many tests. I think the second pattern may be one I handle better visually.

---

The information below may not turn out to be useful or accurate, as I only did a handful of tests for each, but it is something that may lead to an actual useful pattern being discovered:

If you delay the input for selecting the barrel, but do not delay the input for using the barrel on the Hero (meaning a frame-perfect use input), every single result should provide Pattern 2. Therefore, if you could somehow give the input to use the barrel on the Hero on the very first frame available, you should always be given the second pattern. (This showed at least true for the first 20 frames; I think it is possible that results begin to change after an extremely long (but unrealistic if we're discussing a speedrun scenario) delay - I also tested exiting and re-entering the area and was given the same result, but I'm not sure that actually changes anything)

If you could somehow manage to select the barrel from the ring menu on the very first frame, the following should occur when you perform the input to "use" the barrel on the Hero:

1st - 9/10
2nd - 6/12
3rd - 6/12
4th - 6/12
5th - 9/10
6th - 9/10
7th - 9/10
8th - 9/10
9th - 9/10
10th - 9/10
11th - 9/10
12th - 9/10
13th - 9/10
14th - 9/10
15th - 9/10
16th - 6/12
17th - 6/12
18th (barrel text appears) - 6/12
19th - 6/12
20th - 6/12
21st - 6/12
22nd - 6/12
23rd - 6/12
24th - 6/12
25th - 6/12
26th - 6/12
27th - 6/12
28th - 6/12
29th - 6/12
30th - 6/12
31st - 6/12
32nd - 6/12
33rd - 6/12
34th - 6/12
35th - 6/12
36th - 6/12
37th - 6/12
38th - 6/12
39th - 6/12
40th - 6/12

Note that for the information above, 6/12 = Pattern 1 and 9/10 = Pattern 2. Note also that 1st means first possible frame (meaning a frame-perfect input/no delay), 2nd means second possible frame, etc.

What this means is that if you performed a frame-perfect menu selection on the barrel, if you waited roughly 10 frames before using the barrel, you would be given Pattern 2, and presumably, if you waited over 15 frames before using the barrel, you would always be given Pattern 1 no matter how long you waited. (I stopped testing after frame 40, so this might not totally be the case)

Based on this, if it were discovered that patterns (such as the one above) start to repeat after a certain amount of delay on the input for selecting the barrel from the menu, it may be possible to consistently produce a useful listing of patterns by delaying each input a specific amount of time, since it appears possible based on this that only the timing of these two inputs has an effect on the pattern you are given.

I'm afraid to base anything on this though since I am not sure if something else could possibly influence these results outside of the inputs for selecting and using the barrel (and make the above worth even less) since I don't understand enough about this aspect of the game.

---

If nothing of use can come out of the above, then I will say that at the very least, attempting to use this method has made me develop a 'feel' for when I should input the button press, primarily based on when the message disappears. I also feel I am likely to complete a run much more often with this method than with an actual setup, but to each their own.

One of you guys probably have insight to provide, or need to correct something I said, but hopefully something from this post is of use to someone, or leads to something more concrete.
Edit history:
Deuceler: 2014-10-25 11:38:41 am
SPEEDruns not SAFEruns
I don't think it would be very difficult to perfom based off of barrel animation, because of the 5 frame rule the game uses. You can base every attack or menu off of these frames, let's use frames 1-5 repeating for an example. if you press 'B' to attack on Frame 3, you won't actually swing your sword until the next 5 frames although your characters movement will stop. It's too fast to really notice in most cases but makes a difference for this kind of trick. So the idea of doing "frame perfect" inputs for the menu doesn't really exist, unless you pressed 'Y' on the 5th frame and entered the menu directly after that.

If the frames were 1 2 3 4 5 1 2 3 4 5 1 2 3 4 5 - it's an easy way to see when exactly that would occur. The same thing happens for entering the menu, if you press 'Y' to enter the menu  on Frame 2 the menu won't come up until the first frame in the next set of 5. It seems to me you could accurately guess based off the animation, but regardless it's still frame perfect so if you can find something that works for you I say use it.
Edit history:
Binarynova: 2014-10-25 05:38:36 pm
New time! 8:49!!! http://www.twitch.tv/binarynova/c/5365991

Practiced general movement and enemy despawns a lot today. This is the result. Blew me away. I never expected to cut the 9 by 11 seconds!

Timed from name input to final input.
Wait...the TAS time is 8:57. You beat the TAS time? O_O
Well done!
I think I did, but not by as much as it seems and only because the first TAS wasn't very highly optimized (which is why he cancelled the submission). The TAS counts frames from power on though right? I started my timer when I finished the name entry.
Edit history:
Overfiendvip: 2014-10-25 06:45:45 pm
           never a frown
The TAS using speedrun timing appears to be around 8:55, so obviously it has substantial errors that are being corrected. Unless something major changed with the route, I would expect/hope for the TAS to at least be an 8:2X since I honestly think, judging from the 8:49, that somewhere around 8:35 is humanly possible if everything happened to line up in one superbly-executed run.

Edit: Also yes, congrats on another improvement, Binarynova. Don't want to make it seem like I'm snubbing your run by saying what I think is theoretically possible in the long term. Might be interesting to hear what others think...
SPEEDruns not SAFEruns
Awesome stuff Nova, keep going man! Don't stop until it's perfect thumbsup
Edit history:
Overfiendvip: 2014-10-27 09:34:25 pm
Overfiendvip: 2014-10-27 09:33:49 pm
Overfiendvip: 2014-10-27 09:33:29 pm
Overfiendvip: 2014-10-27 01:10:06 am
Overfiendvip: 2014-10-27 01:09:34 am
           never a frown
I think I may have found a setup that always gives Pattern 2:



By using the above location which is easy to force yourself into, or any location that causes the barrel and message not to appear until after the transition, using the barrel and holding right should always give Pattern 2. I tried many different random timings and actions before usage to make certain this was the case, and I also checked the TAS and it also received this pattern in a similar situation.

The problem with this setup is that it causes the message to be able to disappear on completely different frames than normal - so far, I've experienced it disappearing on either the 7th frame or the 3rd frame of the 10 frame period of the sixth "barrel low" animation that occurs, and have also experienced it occurring on the 7th frame of the 10 frame period of the sixth "barrel high" animation that occurs. This appears to be caused by the fact that the barrel can switch animations halfway through one of its periods, which I think happens depending on how the player moves the Hero up to the Cannon Traveler... but I am not certain.

Maybe this information can be of use to someone. Even though I think (especially since the TAS does this) using the barrel as the screen transitions would be technically faster as you would be able to use the ~100 frame waiting period for the message expiring by moving the Hero to the Cannon Traveler, it appears to add even more randomness to the message expiration timing and leaves the player with less time to mentally prepare themselves and/or focus on landing the input at the proper time.
INTJ
Thank you for investigating this. The TAS uses the barrel before the screentransition as well to save some frames. So that would probably be a favored setup ^^