Secret of Mana

seiken

Edit history:

seiken: 2005-12-03 02:52:04 pm

2005-12-03 02:40:54 pm

Secret of Mana

Hello

OK i rename the topic as "Mana Runs", we can speak about SD1/2/3, SD4/5 are on news consoles.

My next run is always an big improve of the first run of Secret of Mana, i am planning to do under 4H30 with always the same conditions ( played alone-PAL-and the same segments ( i save in the same locations ) ).
This time it will be impressive Wink

I just played a little with SD1 ( FFA/MQ ) :
For this game, there are 2 bigs matters :
-All the text : you press the button for to have a fast text, but you have to repress the button for to go to the next text, so if you don't know when the text will stop on each case, you lose pathetically 0.5s each time, total lost time isn't giant, but that's pathetic to watch in a speed run.
In fact you need to learn the full minimum text to read for to complete the game Lips Sealed

-The other matter : like i said in my author's comments for the fight against Tropicallo in the SD2 run, zone damage is random with each monster ( for the monster and for you ), so a single segment can be too hard. To do a few segments is interressant because you can save on each case.

For SD3, i definitely don't have enough knwoledge for to do a run.
However, after to do the new SD2 run, perharps ( as for as i'm concerned, i don't know who exactly want to do what with SD3 ) with your tricks i can do something, in fact, that's the same gameplay with SD2, and i know the maps, but don't have any tricks for to speed run the game.

SD2 News Trics
The 2 biggest matters for my new run will be the fight against the 2 werewolfs when you meet Purim (a) and the fight against the Mana Beast (b).
a-)That's just i need a huge luck before to fight them, then i need a new time a huge luck, they must have a good initial position like in my trailer ( and not like in my 5h15 run ). In fact just a question of time.
And i need to keep the Sprite alive, with EXP SPikey Tigger+2 Werewolfs+Lizard he will have more than 8 MP ( i need 10 MP for the fight agaisnt the first Giga, and if the Sprite dies against the 2 werewolfs he has only 9 MP and even if he has 10 MP by defeating the monsters ion the earth palace, it remains a matter because 9MP=only 4 spells Freeze each time so total nights with INN become higher, that's a catastroph )
b-) Just need a better luck, in fact a new time a huge luck, i have to kill this bastard in 3 or 4 cycles, not really like in the 5h15 run, it will be the biggest improve if you consider here only time skipped.

If you watch my 5h15 run :
I will try to do a perfect way each time i use Flammy, direction isn't really the true matter, just that's hard to go on the destination when you already begin to go down before that.

Part 1
Don't take the coffre in your house
Don't go in the shop to gaia level ( i'll buy candy with the swindler just before the fight against Spikey Tigger )

Sword must be L1 for the fight against Tropicallo.
-)Just kill a few rabbits on the very first way ( always 2 or 3 in the same time ), you need 2 hits per rabbit ( -18HP per hit ) and 4 hits for the monsters ( or 3 with higger level ) which i kill in the room where you find the artifact.
So i go to sword L1 with defeating 1 time the 2 monsters of the room of the artifact and defeating the rabbits ( rabbits : 0.09*10=0.90 and the monsters in the room with the articfact : 0.90+0.09+0.09=1.00).
So i don't use any medical thing against Tropicallo and i can die with 2 bombs or 1 bomb+1 hit of the little bug, so i will wait the perfect fight.

Part2
Fight against Spikey Tigger : this time i just have to skip a hit.
Use teleportation for to move out the castle.
I will improve much time with the robot #1 ( news tricks for to abuse of the AI ).
Better run in the cave where you find Flammy.

Part3
Better run in the sewers and at the ruins #2 + remove the spam matter with the Wall #2.
No mistakes at the castle of the emperor.
Improve much time with the first slime ( boss of the Dark Palace ).

Part4
No stupid decision just before the 2nd boss of the Gold Tower ( when Randi is burning ) + skip the mistake with this 2nd boss ( if Randi wasn't burning this 2nd boss shouldn't had the time to moved ).
I keep the Mana level up just because i had to do it later so if i do in this easy part i don't have to re-do it in the Part5 with a ton of restarts. I am sure my spells trainings are all minimums.
To try a perfect suicide against the 3 clones is too dangerous, but sure this time it will be really better.

Part5
Less mistakes.
Hum, if you go up the stairs ( with sword charged L1 ) for to go on interruptor, it doesn't work, don't you ?
No way to improve the MP sucking with Mech Rider 3, just because he has a random MP initial to suck, and if i don't suck enough, he does the spell "Wall"...

Part6
It will be the hardest part, i want really to do a great segment here. I have a few ideas, but actually too confused. The way of the 5h15 run witout any mistakes ( 0 hit except spells of boss while sprite is spamming these boss, with the trick you can see in the run ).

Part7
I'll try the perfect training with perfects alterations of index...
Actualy i don't know if i will but 2X greats armors ( 65500 GP ) with the swindler at the Tree Palace ( if i don't buy them i just don't go a new time to the Tree Palace, don't need in fact the item which costs 200 GP ).

Part8
I will accept to lose a few secondes against Dark Lich with animation of Freeze 8+ which ruins the spam, if after that i have an excellent fight against the Mana Beast in 3/4 cycles.

Hello  :)
OK i rename the topic as "Mana Runs", we can speak about SD1/2/3, SD4/5 are on news consoles.

My next run is always an big improve of the first run of Secret of Mana, i am planning to do under 4H30 with always the same conditions ( played alone-PAL-and the same segments ( i save in the same locations ) ).
This time it will be impressive  ;)

I just played a little with SD1 ( FFA/MQ ) :
For this game, there are 2 bigs matters : 
-All the text : you press the button for to have a fast text, but you have to repress the button for to go to the next text, so if you don't know when the text will stop on each case, you lose pathetically 0.5s each time, total lost time isn't giant, but that's pathetic to watch in a speed run.
In fact you need to learn the full minimum text to read for to complete the game :-X
-The other matter : like i said in my author's comments for the fight against Tropicallo in the SD2 run, zone damage is random with each monster ( for the monster and for you ), so a single segment can be too hard. To do a few segments is interressant because you can save on each case.

For SD3, i definitely don't have enough knwoledge for to do a run.
However, after to do the new SD2 run, perharps ( as for as i'm concerned, i don't know who exactly want to do what with SD3 ) with your tricks i can do something, in fact, that's the same gameplay with SD2, and i know the maps, but don't have any tricks for to speed run the game.

SD2 News Trics
The 2 biggest matters for my new run will be the fight against the 2 werewolfs when you meet Purim (a) and the fight against the Mana Beast (b).
a-)That's just i need a huge luck before to fight them, then i need a new time a huge luck, they must have a good initial position like in my trailer ( and not like in my 5h15 run ). In fact just a question of time.
And i need to keep the Sprite alive, with EXP SPikey Tigger+2 Werewolfs+Lizard he will have more than 8 MP ( i need 10 MP for the fight agaisnt the first Giga, and if the Sprite dies against the 2 werewolfs he has only 9 MP and even if he has 10 MP by defeating the monsters ion the earth palace, it remains a matter because 9MP=only 4 spells Freeze each time so total nights with INN become higher, that's a catastroph )
b-) Just need a better luck, in fact a new time a huge luck, i have to kill this bastard in 3 or 4 cycles, not really like in the 5h15 run, it will be the biggest improve if you consider here only time skipped.

If you watch my 5h15 run :
I will try to do a perfect way each time i use Flammy, direction isn't really the true matter, just that's hard to go on the destination when you already begin to go down before that.

Part 1
Don't take the coffre in your house
Don't go in the shop to gaia level ( i'll buy candy with the swindler just before the fight against Spikey Tigger )

Sword must be L1 for the fight against Tropicallo.
-)Just kill a few rabbits on the very first way ( always 2 or 3 in the same time ), you need 2 hits per rabbit ( -18HP per hit ) and 4 hits for the monsters ( or 3 with higger level ) which i kill in the room where you find the artifact.
So i go to sword L1 with defeating 1 time the 2 monsters of the room of the artifact and defeating the rabbits ( rabbits : 0.09*10=0.90 and the monsters in the room with the articfact : 0.90+0.09+0.09=1.00).
So i don't use any medical thing against Tropicallo and i can die with 2 bombs or 1 bomb+1 hit of the little bug, so i will wait the perfect fight.

Part2
Fight against Spikey Tigger : this time i just have to skip a hit.
Use teleportation for to move out the castle.
I will improve much time with the robot #1 ( news tricks for to abuse of the AI ).
Better run in the cave where you find Flammy.

Part3
Better run in the sewers and at the ruins #2 + remove the spam matter with the Wall #2.
No mistakes at the castle of the emperor.
Improve much time with the first slime ( boss of the Dark Palace ).

Part4
No stupid decision just before the 2nd boss of the Gold Tower ( when Randi is burning ) + skip the mistake with this 2nd boss ( if Randi wasn't burning this 2nd boss shouldn't had the time to moved ).
I keep the Mana level up just because i had to do it later so if i do in this easy part i don't have to re-do it in the Part5 with a ton of restarts. I am sure my spells trainings are all minimums.
To try a perfect suicide against the 3 clones is too dangerous, but sure this time it will be really better.

Part5
Less mistakes.
Hum, if you go up the stairs ( with sword charged L1 ) for to go on interruptor, it doesn't work, don't you ?
No way to improve the MP sucking with Mech Rider 3, just because he has a random MP initial to suck, and if i don't suck enough, he does the spell "Wall"...

Part6
It will be the hardest part, i want really to do a great segment here. I have a few ideas, but actually too confused. The way of the 5h15 run witout any mistakes ( 0 hit except spells of boss while sprite is spamming these boss, with the trick you can see in the run ).

Part7
I'll try the perfect training with perfects alterations of index...
Actualy i don't know if i will but 2X greats armors ( 65500 GP ) with the swindler at the Tree Palace ( if i don't buy them i just don't go a new time to the Tree Palace, don't need in fact the item which costs 200 GP ).

Part8
I will accept to lose a few secondes against Dark Lich with animation of Freeze 8+ which ruins the spam, if after that i have an excellent fight against the Mana Beast in 3/4 cycles.

seiken

2006-04-30 06:04:48 pm

Secret of Mana

Hello guys Wink

I believed to say there was a wrong record at the begin of a segment of my run lol Grin

But that's not a matter because I will improve Secret of Mana run this summer Wink

A good news for you, i said a would make a NTSC run in two years so in one year today but in fact i will make that this summer so no more PAL runs, this time you will have 60 FPS/English Language Smiley

What's the difference ? 17% speed ? It's the same speed in loading parts, but always 17% in scenes like intro ? I don't have feeling all scenes are faster...

For NTSC 8 segments run, i don't have any idea of the time, perharps under 3H who know a 2HXX will be fun to read i will see what i can do with NTSC version ^^ But i don't know if it's possible ^^

I bought directly a NTSC console, today that's too hard to switch my PAL console because even with easy tutorials i have matters to have full composants+tools Sad

For the run i will use my card this time, not VHS, i had the idea to buy a dvd recorder, but after all, i bought a card so i will use it, this time no matters Grin

I had a new time an idea of a Single Segment run, i will perharps do that after Segmented Run, there will be 3 points which will kill a tons of run : Spikey Tigger at the Begin, The Wall of the Boss at the begin of Tree Palace, and Mana Beast for too log time. The Worst is the wall, Spikey Tigger is at the begin of the game ( less 30 min and less with NTSC ), Mana Beast can take too time but perharps he cannot kill the full run sometime that depends of the time he takes, but the Wall is too random, the matter is in fact when you have the wall you are dead ( no issues ) ans this bastard doesn't that 50% of the time but about 80% of the time, i know it after my restarts because of this boss at the begin of one of my segmented run, so in a single segment run, it will :censor:

I had too the idea of a run with lots a segment for to a perfect run, but i kept the idea of my 8 segments with always the same point of savegame, because i will try a nearly perfect run with 8 segments, i think in fact that's possible and it will be interessant to watch. To save each time you can do it, i don't like that in a A-RPG, because you have in these speed run games more gameplay/luck than planing, but in RPG like Final Fantasy/Chrono Trigger etc...
you have more planing ( i think ) and after that you wait the luck for each segment for a boss, better to do more segments than a crap level-up in a single segment run for to not have 0.1 % to kill the final boss or one particular crap boss with alterations of status, but in RPG like Secret of Mana, you can have lots of time an issue so too in a Speed Run, of course if it takes too time the run is dead...
I'm a beginner in the speed run, but i find this game hard to run Sad

I have to finish the NTSC run this summer, but i already began my run, i tried new abuses with NTSC version, this way i will see differences between versions, but i don't want use glitch like Mana Sword ( only on NTSC ) at the begin of the game, i just want to see if you can more abuse AI monsters/boss Wink

I'm actually making the first segment ( until Spikey Tigger ) without items.
Sad

And it takes definitely less time to put the sword at level 1.00 before the fight with Tropicallo, i tried without... impossible with decent time, i know you have to charge at level 1 while Tropicallo is under the ground, but i tried new glitchs without decents results.
The other question i have for myself is the sprite live for the first segment with the 2 werewolfs, that's indispensable because without his life i can kill them with the fastest way like in my mini-trailer, it is for move run after the fight, i will perharps finaly use his life for to kill them, the matter is latter against Gigafrost as i said a few post ago.

The begin of the second segment will be nice, with the fight against Spikey Tigger, i found a way to have nice moves when he's rolling, it doesn't affect the time but it's nice to watch ^^

So before summer, i begin new Secret of Mana run but not each day, i have busy brain with this game ( with the attempts of new run ) so i will do a few maps of Heroes of Might and Magic 2-3 in these next days Wink

So the run is for summer and not before that's just i wanted to say ^^ I will definitely to take my time for to planing this run, it will be my final run ( segmented ), i know what i have to do, i know the first run is very far from perfection but the second and final run will be very different, my run which i download from SDA ( easier to watch on my computer than on my VHS copies Sad

) is very helping me for the new run, i saw the maps for example, the maps on manuel are totally useless...

I saw the SD1 TAS, i hoped to see tricks for speed run but in fact there are too glitchs, the other japanese time 2h29 was done without emulator or not ? Segmented ?

Hello guys  ;)

I believed to say there was a wrong record at the begin of a segment of my run lol  ;D 
But that's not a matter because I will improve Secret of Mana run this summer  ;)

A good news for you, i said a would make a NTSC run in two years so in one year today but in fact i will make that this summer so no more PAL runs, this time you will have 60 FPS/English Language :)
What's the difference ? 17% speed ? It's the same speed in loading parts, but always 17% in scenes like intro ? I don't have feeling all scenes are faster...

For NTSC 8 segments run, i don't have any idea of the time, perharps under 3H who know a 2HXX will be fun to read i will see what i can do with NTSC version ^^ But i don't know if it's possible ^^

I bought directly a NTSC console, today that's too hard to switch my PAL console because even with easy tutorials i have matters to have full composants+tools  :(

For the run i will use my card this time, not VHS, i had the idea to buy a dvd recorder, but after all, i bought a card so  i will use it, this time no matters  ;D >:(

I had a new time an idea of a Single Segment run, i will perharps do that after Segmented Run, there will be 3 points which will kill a tons of run : Spikey Tigger at the Begin, The Wall of the Boss at the begin of Tree Palace, and Mana Beast for too log time. The Worst is the wall, Spikey Tigger is at the begin of the game ( less 30 min and less with NTSC ), Mana Beast can take too time but perharps he cannot kill the full run sometime that depends of the time he takes, but the Wall is too random, the matter is in fact when you have the wall you are dead ( no issues ) ans this bastard doesn't that 50% of the time but about 80% of the time, i know it after my restarts because of this boss at the begin of one of my segmented run, so in a single segment run, it will  :censor:

I had too the idea of a run with lots a segment for to a perfect run, but i kept the idea of my 8 segments with always the same point of savegame, because i will try a nearly perfect run with 8 segments, i think in fact that's possible and it will be interessant to watch. To save each time you can do it, i don't like that in a A-RPG, because you have in these speed run games more gameplay/luck than planing, but in RPG like Final Fantasy/Chrono Trigger etc...
you have more planing ( i think ) and after that you wait the luck for each segment for a boss, better to do more segments than a crap level-up in a single segment run for  to not have 0.1 % to kill the final boss or one particular crap boss with alterations of status, but in RPG like Secret of Mana, you can have lots of time an issue so too in a Speed Run, of course if it takes too time the run is dead...
I'm a beginner in the speed run, but i find this game hard to run :(

I have to finish the NTSC run this summer, but i already began my run, i tried new abuses with NTSC version, this way i will see differences between versions, but i don't want use glitch like Mana Sword ( only on NTSC ) at the begin of the game, i just want to see if you can more abuse AI monsters/boss  ;)

I'm actually making the first segment ( until Spikey Tigger ) without items. 
 :( 
And it takes definitely less time to put the sword at level 1.00 before the fight with Tropicallo, i tried without... impossible with decent time, i know you have to charge at level 1 while Tropicallo is under the ground, but i tried new glitchs without decents results.
The other question i have for myself is the sprite live for the first segment with the 2 werewolfs, that's indispensable because without his life i can kill them with the fastest way like in my mini-trailer, it is for move run after the fight, i will perharps finaly use his life for to kill them, the matter is latter against Gigafrost as i said a few post ago.

The begin of the second segment will be nice, with the fight against Spikey Tigger, i found a way to have nice moves when he's rolling, it doesn't affect the time but it's nice to watch ^^

So before summer, i begin new Secret of Mana run but not each day, i have busy brain with this game ( with the attempts of new run ) so i will do a few maps of Heroes of Might and Magic 2-3 in these next days  ;) So the run is for summer and not before that's just i wanted to say ^^ I will definitely to take my time for to planing this run, it will be my final run ( segmented ), i know what i have to do, i know the first run is very far from perfection but the second and final run will be very different, my run which i download from SDA ( easier to watch on my computer than on my VHS copies :( ) is very helping me for the new run, i saw the maps for example, the maps on manuel are totally useless...

I saw the SD1 TAS, i hoped to see tricks for speed run but in fact there are too glitchs, the other japanese time 2h29 was done without emulator or not ? Segmented ?

Gorash

Edit history:

Gorash: 2006-04-30 08:53:22 pm

2006-04-30 08:53:05 pm

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If you mean that ultimagarden record, that one mentions 24 times throughout the run, so I'll just assume they are segments.

seiken

Edit history:

seiken: 2006-09-17 05:09:42 pm

2006-09-17 05:07:08 pm

Secret of Mana

I completly gived up with Secret of Mana, and i wasted too many time with videos games.

I wanted first to do an NTSC run with the same segments of the old PAL, but after that i thought i had to do a SS for this A-RPG so it was become obvious to do directly a SS.
I didn't like anymore segmented run.

I definitely tried SS NTSC and there are too matters, there is always somewhere a crap foe which kills my run. The funny thing is it's never the same foe.
A really perfect knowledge of the maps ( which i didn't have for the PAL run ) is useless, to plan path works only in certains room ( like where you have to push only one or two time the pad ), in the others, the random IA of the 2 others chars can kill your path like it desyncs in a TAS run when you took the wrong rom, it's crap. The matter is it's not your fault, except if you can move your char for to perfectly controll the path of the 2 others, and all of that in the shortest time -) TAS...

There are finally security zone/path/behavior to take. But there are finally not so "sure", and it's finally perhaps better ( at least more impressive ) to have more direct confrontations. This game let me perplexed.

I wanted to do a really impressive SS run, but it take too many times for me.

Dragondarch i see this game is in your queue ( and upped ) so this game will be in good hands, i wish you good luck.

I completly gived up with Secret of Mana, and i wasted too many time with videos games.

I wanted first to do an NTSC run with the same segments of the old PAL, but after that i thought i had to do a SS for this A-RPG so it was become obvious to do directly a SS.
I didn't like anymore segmented run.

I definitely tried SS NTSC and there are too matters, there is always somewhere a crap foe which kills my run. The funny thing is it's never the same foe.
A really perfect knowledge of the maps ( which i didn't have for the PAL run ) is useless, to plan path works only in certains room ( like where you have to push only one or two time the pad ), in the others, the random IA of the 2 others chars can kill your path like it desyncs in a TAS run when you took the wrong rom, it's crap. The matter is it's not your fault, except if you can move your char for to perfectly controll the path of the 2 others, and all of that in  the shortest time -) TAS...

There are finally security zone/path/behavior to take. But there are finally not so "sure", and it's finally perhaps better ( at least more impressive ) to have more direct confrontations. This game let me perplexed.

I wanted to do a really impressive SS run, but it take too many times for me.

Dragondarch i see this game is in your queue ( and upped ) so this game will be in good hands, i wish you good luck.

rms4wwf

2006-09-20 06:46:44 pm

secret of mana master.

can't wait for an improve run.

Fulgore

2006-11-25 01:26:37 am

I have been thinking about doing a run on this game. It has been quite a while since I have played it on a console having only just acquired a fresh copy of the game. Seiken's run is very good but there is definately room for improvement.

Some questions...

NTSC would be a different category, yes?

Would more segments be acceptable if they were performed cleaner?

There are a few areas where save wapring could shave lots of time, how much would I be allowed to do this if at all? There seemed to be some confusion about this.

The 2nd player weapon charge glitch does indeed work on NTSC systems, I guess from the above posts that this would be allowed, but possibly another category as well?

I have a recording technique question also but I will hold that for later.

mikwuyma

2006-11-25 08:37:00 am

My feelings on The Demon Rush

Quote:

I have been thinking about doing a run on this game. It has been quite a while since I have played it on a console having only just acquired a fresh copy of the game. Seiken's run is very good but there is definately room for improvement.

Some questions...

NTSC would be a different category, yes?

Would more segments be acceptable if they were performed cleaner?

There are a few areas where save wapring could shave lots of time, how much would I be allowed to do this if at all? There seemed to be some confusion about this.

The 2nd player weapon charge glitch does indeed work on NTSC systems, I guess from the above posts that this would be allowed, but possibly another category as well?

I have a recording technique question also but I will hold that for later.

-Yes, NTSC is a separate category. If your run is much faster than the PAL run, then we might boot the PAL run (if the PAL run will look really bad in comparison)

-Use as many segments as you need to make a great run. There is no segment limit. Less segments doesn't equal more skill, it just means you're being stubborn Tongue

-Save warping is a separate category. Once you use it, use it as many times as necessary.

-What is the second player charge glitch?

-

[quote]I have been thinking about doing a run on this game.  It has been quite a while since I have played it on a console having only just acquired a fresh copy of the game.  Seiken's run is very good but there is definately room for improvement.

Some questions...

NTSC would be a different category, yes?

Would more segments be acceptable if they were performed cleaner?

There are a few areas where save wapring could shave lots of time, how much would I be allowed to do this if at all?  There seemed to be some confusion about this.

The 2nd player weapon charge glitch does indeed work on NTSC systems, I guess from the above posts that this would be allowed, but possibly another category as well?

I have a recording technique question also but I will hold that for later.

[/quote]

-Yes, NTSC is a separate category.  If your run is much faster than the PAL run, then we might boot the PAL run (if  the PAL run will look really bad in comparison)

-Use as many segments as you need to make a great run.  There is no segment limit.  Less segments doesn't equal more skill, it just means you're being stubborn :P

-Save warping is a separate category.  Once you use it, use it as many times as necessary.

-What is the second player charge glitch?

-

Fulgore

2006-11-25 09:21:18 am

Quote:

-Yes, NTSC is a separate category. If your run is much faster than the PAL run, then we might boot the PAL run (if the PAL run will look really bad in comparison)

-Use as many segments as you need to make a great run. There is no segment limit. Less segments doesn't equal more skill, it just means you're being stubborn Tongue

-Save warping is a separate category. Once you use it, use it as many times as necessary.

-What is the second player charge glitch?

-

Thanks for the info! In answer to your question:

Quote:

I'm sure the following glitch can be altered to work solo...
I found this bug together with my brother..... not saying we were the first or the only ones.... but just that we found it ourselves Tongue

1) player B has a weapon that can 'charge' 2 bars, and a weapon that can charge 1 bar
2) player B charges his '2 bars' on that weapon
3) player A equips the weapon that player B can charge only 1 bar with
4) player A swaps his weapon with player B
5) player B now has charged 2 bars but can only charge 1 bar...... resulting in a glitch...
6) player B's bar will charge very fast and all the way to the maximum level..... allowing for 999 hits on very early levels

I'm not sure if you could use this to improve your run or if it's even allowed.... anyway it's a kickass bug!

This is possible to do as early as the 2nd boss fight, out of about 40.

[quote]

-Yes, NTSC is a separate category.  If your run is much faster than the PAL run, then we might boot the PAL run (if  the PAL run will look really bad in comparison)

-Use as many segments as you need to make a great run.  There is no segment limit.  Less segments doesn't equal more skill, it just means you're being stubborn :P

-Save warping is a separate category.  Once you use it, use it as many times as necessary.

-What is the second player charge glitch?

-[/quote]

Thanks for the info!  In answer to your question:

[quote]I'm sure the following glitch can be altered to work solo...
I found this bug together with my brother..... not saying we were the first or the only ones.... but just that we found it ourselves :P

1) player B has a weapon that can 'charge' 2 bars, and a weapon that can charge 1 bar
2) player B charges his '2 bars' on that weapon
3) player A equips the weapon that player B can charge only 1 bar with
4) player A swaps his weapon with player B
5) player B now has charged 2 bars but can only charge 1 bar...... resulting in a glitch...
6) player B's bar will charge very fast and all the way to the maximum level..... allowing for 999 hits on very early levels

I'm not sure if you could use this to improve your run or if it's even allowed.... anyway it's a kickass bug![/quote]

This is possible to do as early as the 2nd boss fight, out of about 40.

mikwuyma

Edit history:

mikwuyma: 2006-11-25 10:06:58 am

2006-11-25 10:05:47 am

My feelings on The Demon Rush

The bug is allowed, I'll just have to see whether it has a huge effect on time or not (to determine whether it belongs in a separate category or not).

I would advise using the bug so you can get the fastest time possible.

P.S. By maximum level, they mean maximum charge level, not character level, correct?

Dragondarch

2006-11-25 01:48:23 pm

Pudding%

Quoth the Radix (concerning PAL vs. NTSC):

Quote:

Frank 'Seiken' Cid has done a run of the first RPG I ever played, Secret of Mana for Super Nintendo. He plays the PAL version of the game with French text, but it seems to me to run at the correct speed while playing the game (I didn't do any tests though). Only when traveling on the map via cannon is it obviously going slower due to the music not being long enough, so it's probably just the map where it goes slower. The text length difference between the languages probably matters more for the time, but can't be more than a few minutes I think.

As for his "maximum level" I'm pretty certain he means charge level, though I've actually never heard of this bug.

I'm going to take a guess that some of the "save warping" would include getting more Sword Orbs?

And lastly, I managed to find a glitch myself, but can't seem to find the notebook I wrote it down in...granted I found it like 10-somewad years ago so I'll have to dig to find the damned thing.

Quoth the Radix (concerning PAL vs. NTSC):
[quote]Frank 'Seiken' Cid has done a run of the first RPG I ever played, Secret of Mana for Super Nintendo. He plays the PAL version of the game with French text, but it seems to me to run at the correct speed while playing the game (I didn't do any tests though). Only when traveling on the map via cannon is it obviously going slower due to the music not being long enough, so it's probably just the map where it goes slower. The text length difference between the languages probably matters more for the time, but can't be more than a few minutes I think.[/quote]

As for his "maximum level" I'm pretty certain he means charge level, though I've actually never heard of this bug.

I'm going to take a guess that some of the "save warping" would include getting more Sword Orbs?

And lastly, I managed to find a glitch myself, but can't seem to find the notebook I wrote it down in...granted I found it like 10-somewad years ago so I'll have to dig to find the damned thing.

Fulgore

2006-11-25 05:27:38 pm

Yes it is the weapon that is affected, not the character.

I don't know if getting more sword orbs would be necessary with the glitch, I will have to test and see how far I get.

As for the speed, I've been playing Seikens video and playing in real time for some comparison, I seem to really pick up time when it comes to the text scrolling. I start the video and start playing at the same time and I can be at the water palace for the first time over a minute before Seiken arrives, not because of skill either. This is only about 10 minutes into the game so over the coarse of the whole game it would add up significantly.

Dragondarch

2006-11-26 12:10:21 pm

Pudding%

Found the book with the other glitch. Not sure how much help it'll be but here it is anyway:

Quote:

First off, make sure you're not controlling the character you want to perform this glitch on.
Have said character get hit. After they take the hit, but before the recover, try to change the character's weapon.
On the weapon ring, the weapon they have equipped should be grayed out. Change weapons anyway. If done correctly the game will think the character's weapon has been changed...mostly. The attack power will change to the value of the newly equipped weapon, but they'll still be fighting with the previous one.
Namely, this can be used to give a weak weapon good attack power, such as the Javelin.
Note that whatever weapon you're trying to get the attack power of must not be equipped by anyone else.
Useful when glitching the game to get more Sword Orbs (Give Dragon Slayer attack power to anything), and even moreso once 9 Sword Orbs are obtained (Mana Sword has rediculous attack power).
Also note that the game will still think you have the previous weapon equipped, so all 3 characters can have the attack power of the most powerful weapon.

There's 2 limitations, though.
1) If said character if hit with ANY spell (Offensive or Defensive/Healing) the effect will be cancelled.
2) If you switch rooms they'll also lose it.

Hope that's semi-clear.

Found the book with the other glitch. Not sure how much help it'll be but here it is anyway:

[quote]First off, make sure you're not controlling the character you want to perform this glitch on.
Have said character get hit. After they take the hit, but before the recover, try to change the character's weapon.
On the weapon ring, the weapon they have equipped should be grayed out. Change weapons anyway. If done correctly the game will think the character's weapon has been changed...mostly. The attack power will change to the value of the newly equipped weapon, but they'll still be fighting with the previous one.
Namely, this can be used to give a weak weapon good attack power, such as the Javelin.
Note that whatever weapon you're trying to get the attack power of must not be equipped by anyone else.
Useful when glitching the game to get more Sword Orbs (Give Dragon Slayer attack power to anything), and even moreso once 9 Sword Orbs are obtained (Mana Sword has rediculous attack power).
Also note that the game will still think you have the previous weapon equipped, so all 3 characters can have the attack power of the most powerful weapon.

There's 2 limitations, though.
1) If said character if hit with ANY spell (Offensive or Defensive/Healing) the effect will be cancelled.
2) If you switch rooms they'll also lose it.[/quote]

Hope that's semi-clear.

Madzombie

2006-11-26 06:50:21 pm

pidgeons

I'm somewhat tempted to do a run of either this or Secret of Evermore. I got up to the Mana Beast on a low level game, so I should be good at winning boss fights at low levels. SoE hasn't been done yet though, so I think it might be better to do a whole new run than to attempt to beat an existing run that other people are also interested in doing.

ventuz

2006-11-26 09:19:00 pm

Null

Cool, I'll look forward to this run. You'll make sure you will speak to Elinee the witch after Spikey, right?

Madzombie

2006-11-27 12:39:55 am

pidgeons

I've tried the start of the game, with the intention of heavily abusing the weapon power level glitch. As this allows you to do 999 damage at any level it essentially means there should be zero need for levelling, as it's possible to get to the Mana Beast on lv32 with some armour from early on in the game. The early stages seem to be the most difficult, as a lot of planning will be needed to find the quickest way to level weapons up to make the glitch usable. I reckon the best way to do it is to get the Sword to lv2, as the story requires you to do this anyway, and use the spear as the lv1 weapon. Here's my proposal for the first few segments:

Segment 1: Play through to the Mana Sword as usual. Take advantage of the fact that you are level 1 and kill Rabites in the forest to boost the sword's level. Stop when you are 2 kills away from levelling up the sword. Defeat the Mantis Ant. Ignore the 50GP chest downstairs and leave Potos. Kill the Rabite outside Potos to level up the Sword, then take the cannon to the Water Palace. Ignore the soldiers, activate the seed and get the spear, then save/quit.

Segment 2: I think using save warps is the best way to do this game, as there are many save points where you don't start exactly where you saved. First switch to the Spear, then travel to Gaia's Navel. Along the way kill every Lullabud and Rabite you see. There may be enough of them to boost the spear to lv1. If not then a couple of Blats get in your way in Gaia's Navel so kill as many as you need when you get there. Pick up the Magic Rope in Gaia's Navel. I personally would end this segment in the Dwarf Village Inn, after getting the broad sword but before visiting the Sprite Show, but other people may want to integrate this segment with the next.

Segment 3: I personally think Tropicallo needs its own segment, as there are many ways that you can be slowed down in this fight. Use the lv2 sword as it should be able to deal around 40 damage with a charge attack. Also, you want to get it to lv2 as fast as possible so every kill helps. At this point it may be worthwhile outfitting the Boy and one NPC (you won't have enough money for both) with some armour. I'd get 2 wristbands and a head gear, so the boy has a full set of armour and you can give the girl a wristband when you reach her. In retrospect it might be a good idea to pick up a Hair Ribbon on the way to Gaia's Navel so you can fully outfit the girl too. The main reason for this is boosting evade, as by this point most enemy attacks will hit you and knock you to the ground. You need 100GB spare for buying the axe. After buying the axe save at Neko's downstairs.

Segment 4: This one looks like it'll be nasty, due to the wolf fight prior to recruiting the girl. The easiest (though still not easy) way to do this is to level the sword up to lv2 before entering the fight, then quickly hammering the wolves with a level something-very-high attack. I'm still seeing what the fastest way to do this is, as this requires killing some Chobin Hoods to level the sword up, which takes some time. If it turns out to be faster to do this fight the conventional way then I reckon the Sprite will have to be sacrificed, as he dies in two hits against these guys. All the more reason for making the Girl the supporting character. The logical place to end this segment is in the Prison in Elinee's Castle, with the Boy and at least one NPC alive.

I've tried the start of the game, with the intention of heavily abusing the weapon power level glitch. As this allows you to do 999 damage at any level it essentially means there should be zero need for levelling, as it's possible to get to the Mana Beast on lv32 with some armour from early on in the game. The early stages seem to be the most difficult, as a lot of planning will be needed to find the quickest way to level weapons up to make the glitch usable. I reckon the best way to do it is to get the Sword to lv2, as the story requires you to do this anyway, and use the spear as the lv1 weapon. Here's my proposal for the first few segments:

Segment 1: Play through to the Mana Sword as usual. Take advantage of the fact that you are level 1 and kill Rabites in the forest to boost the sword's level. Stop when you are 2 kills away from levelling up the sword. Defeat the Mantis Ant. Ignore the 50GP chest downstairs and leave Potos. Kill the Rabite outside Potos to level up the Sword, then take the cannon to the Water Palace. Ignore the soldiers, activate the seed and get the spear, then save/quit.

Segment 2: I think using save warps is the best way to do this game, as there are many save points where you don't start exactly where you saved. First switch to the Spear, then travel to Gaia's Navel. Along the way kill every Lullabud and Rabite you see. There may be enough of them to boost the spear to lv1. If not then a couple of Blats get in your way in Gaia's Navel so kill as many as you need when you get there. Pick up the Magic Rope in Gaia's Navel. I personally would end this segment in the Dwarf Village Inn, after getting the broad sword but before visiting the Sprite Show, but other people may want to integrate this segment with the next.

Segment 3: I personally think Tropicallo needs its own segment, as there are many ways that you can be slowed down in this fight. Use the lv2 sword as it should be able to deal around 40 damage with a charge attack. Also, you want to get it to lv2 as fast as possible so every kill helps. At this point it may be worthwhile outfitting the Boy and one NPC (you won't have enough money for both) with some armour. I'd get 2 wristbands and a head gear, so the boy has a full set of armour and you can give the girl a wristband when you reach her. In retrospect it might be a good idea to pick up a Hair Ribbon on the way to Gaia's Navel so you can fully outfit the girl too. The main reason for this is boosting evade, as by this point most enemy attacks will hit you and knock you to the ground. You need 100GB spare for buying the axe. After buying the axe save at Neko's downstairs.

Segment 4: This one looks like it'll be nasty, due to the wolf fight prior to recruiting the girl. The easiest (though still not easy) way to do this is to level the sword up to lv2 before entering the fight, then quickly hammering the wolves with a level something-very-high attack. I'm still seeing what the fastest way to do this is, as this requires killing some Chobin Hoods to level the sword up, which takes some time. If it turns out to be faster to do this fight the conventional way then I reckon the Sprite will have to be sacrificed, as he dies in two hits against these guys. All the more reason for making the Girl the supporting character. The logical place to end this segment is in the Prison in Elinee's Castle, with the Boy and at least one NPC alive.

rms4wwf

Edit history:

rms4wwf: 2006-11-27 03:14:29 am

2006-11-27 03:11:57 am

secret of mana master.

Then take the cannon to the Water Palace. Ignore the soldiers, activate the seed and get the spear, then save/quit.

NO, do NOT do that. its a waste of time. just walk over to the water palace because it is much faster than taking the cannon. TRUST ME.

I personally would end this segment in the Dwarf Village Inn, after getting the broad sword but before visiting the Sprite Show, but other people may want to integrate this segment with the next.

wouldn't be easier to go to the sprite show FIRST, to save money....? because you get the money back, THEN you can just buy the broad sword from there, which, already takes you to the second boss. i think this is easier too.

i'll check other things to help you out.

EDIT: ok, i'm new to the quote thing.... but, now i know.

Fulgore

Edit history:

Fulgore: 2006-11-27 08:06:15 am

2006-11-27 07:20:39 am

I have made a rather crappy test run. I decided to try and get the girl first so I could try the weapon glitch on Tropicallo. I didn't level the weapons as I went and I think it definately cost me time. Having learned the hard way, I'll list my revised segment plans.

Seg 1 - Same as Madzombie except I will talk to the soldiers so I can get caught and talk to the girl.

Seg 2 - Switch to spear and leave water palace, kill rabbite and flowers, get caught by goblins, kill more rabbites and flowers on the way to pandora, get the girl in pandora and save at the inn.

Seg 3 - To keep the girl I need to head to the haunted forrest and discover I need the axe. I save at Neko after the axe dialoge because I can't seem to survive the trip to gaia's navel. Also, if you save at Neko before you do that 'we need the axe' sceen, when you reload that game you will be at the bottom teleporter. If you save after the 'we need axe' text, you reload a game starting at the top teleporter. Both points mean you physically start farther back from where you saved, but the after 'need axe' save is closer.

Seg - 4 I have to journey from Neko to gaia's navel, get the rope, get to watts and upgrade sword to lvl 2, and save at the inn. Ideally, avoiding a save point at Neko in the haunted forrest would be best, but it is quite a long journey from pandora to Watts and I have not been able to have both characters survive in one segment.

Seg - 5 Now I have to raise the sword to lvl 2 before the tropicallo fight. This should go much faster than my first attempt because I only need 1 lvl with the sword instead of 2 for the sword and 1 for the spear like I had initally planned. Figure out exactly how many kills I need for sword lvl 2 then run back and save at the inn.

Seg - 6 Go to the Sprite's show and get the money back. Before leaving to fight Tropicallo, make sure boy has sword, and girl has spear. Press start on player 2 controller and then start the fight. Charge sword to lvl 2, change weapons, 1 hit kill for troppy, get the sprite, and save at the inn. Here again, both segments 5 and 6 could be combines into 1, but I found that it is not as easy as I thought it was to do the weapon glitch. You really have to watch the charge meter to get a good shot, otherwise you will get pumpkin smeard all over your face.

My test run bascially followed this format except I didn't level up weapons on the way, resulting in a large weapon leveling segment, number 5. I'm not sure how to time the segments. I think timing starts at the point you first gain control of the character, but is this the very first sceen from falling off the log because you control the text, or is it when you are first able to move in the pool below? Do you start timing from power on for all the other segments or from when you gain control in those segments? Does timing stop as soon as you confirm a save point? Any answers would be great, I'll provide my total time once I learn how to do it properly.

Edit 1: I reread the timing section of the FAQ and I'll have a go at timing my first attempt based on that. Results soon...

Edit 2: I get a time of 24:59 when I add it all up. I do from first moving in the pool of water to the save screen fading at the water palace for segment 1. All of the others I time from the load menu screen until the save menu fades. If this is correct this route may be showing some potential. I will make another attempt, this time getting the sword and spear to lvl 1 before reaching gaia's navel.

I have made a rather crappy test run.  I decided to try and get the girl first so I could try the weapon glitch on Tropicallo.  I didn't level the weapons as I went and I think it definately cost me time.  Having learned the hard way, I'll list my revised segment plans.

Seg 1 - Same as Madzombie except I will talk to the soldiers so I can get caught and talk to the girl.

Seg 2 - Switch to spear and leave water palace, kill rabbite and flowers, get caught by goblins, kill more rabbites and flowers on the way to pandora, get the girl in pandora and save at the inn.

Seg 3 - To keep the girl I need to head to the haunted forrest and discover I need the axe.  I save at Neko after the axe dialoge because I can't seem to survive the trip to gaia's navel.  Also, if you save at Neko before you do that 'we need the axe' sceen, when you reload that game you will be at the bottom teleporter.  If you save after the 'we need axe' text, you reload a game starting at the top teleporter.  Both points mean you physically start farther back from where you saved, but the after 'need axe' save is closer.

Seg - 4 I have to journey from Neko to gaia's navel, get the rope, get to watts and upgrade sword to lvl 2, and save at the inn.  Ideally, avoiding a save point at Neko in the haunted forrest would be best, but it is quite a long journey from pandora to Watts and I have not been able to have both characters survive in one segment.

Seg - 5 Now I have to raise the sword to lvl 2 before the tropicallo fight.  This should go much faster than my first attempt because I only need 1 lvl with the sword instead of 2 for the sword and 1 for the spear like I had initally planned.  Figure out exactly how many kills I need for sword lvl 2 then run back and save at the inn.

Seg - 6  Go to the Sprite's show and get the money back.  Before leaving to fight Tropicallo, make sure boy has sword, and girl has spear.  Press start on player 2 controller and then start the fight.  Charge sword to lvl 2, change weapons, 1 hit kill for troppy, get the sprite, and save at the inn.  Here again, both segments 5 and 6 could be combines into 1, but I found that it is not as easy as I thought it was to do the weapon glitch.  You really have to watch the charge meter to get a good shot, otherwise you will get pumpkin smeard all over your face.

My test run bascially followed this format except I didn't level up weapons on the way, resulting in a large weapon leveling segment, number 5.  I'm not sure how to time the segments.  I think timing starts at the point you first gain control of the character, but is this the very first sceen from falling off the log because you control the text, or is it when you are first able to move in the pool below?  Do you start timing from power on for all the other segments or from when you gain control in those segments?  Does timing stop as soon as you confirm a save point?  Any answers would be great, I'll provide my total time once I learn how to do it properly.

Edit 1:  I reread the timing section of the FAQ and I'll have a go at timing my first attempt based on that.  Results soon...

Edit 2:  I get a time of 24:59 when I add it all up.  I do from first moving in the pool of water to the save screen fading at the water palace for segment 1.  All of the others I time from the load menu screen until the save menu fades.  If this is correct this route may be showing some potential.  I will make another attempt, this time getting the sword and spear to lvl 1 before reaching gaia's navel.

Madzombie

Edit history:

Madzombie: 2006-11-27 06:07:04 pm

2006-11-27 12:03:22 pm

pidgeons

NO, do NOT do that. its a waste of time. just walk over to the water palace because it is much faster than taking the cannon. TRUST ME.

Ok I checked and going on foot is ~25 seconds faster. Never knew it made such a huge difference!

wouldn't be easier to go to the sprite show FIRST, to save money....? because you get the money back, THEN you can just buy the broad sword from there, which, already takes you to the second boss. i think this is easier too.

By the time I reached Dwarf Village I already had 150GP, so I could do them in either order. It makes more sense to do the sword first, as the detour from the Sprite Show to the Inn is longer than the detour from Watts to the Inn. It's only a couple of seconds but it all adds up.

I decided to try and get the girl first so I could try the weapon glitch on Tropicallo.

I'm almost certain that this approach will take a lot longer. You have to do the following extra things: Talk to Dyluck, watch the Goblin scene, go to Pandora Castle and get the Girl, go into the Forest and leave again, level the sword up to lv2 before necessary. I think you're looking at a good 3+ minutes extra there. Compare this to doing Tropicallo the hard way, which takes around 60-90 seconds.

Edit: I compared my route and, after saving at Neko's after tropicallo, I was around 23:30. It's not as big a saving as I thought but it's still faster. Bear in mind that this wasn't particularly optimised, I just wanted to get an idea of how long it would take.

[I]NO, do NOT do that. its a waste of time. just walk over to the water palace because it is much faster than taking the cannon. TRUST ME.[/I]

Ok I checked and going on foot is ~25 seconds faster. Never knew it made such a huge difference!

[I]wouldn't be easier to go to the sprite show FIRST, to save money....? because you get the money back, THEN you can just buy the broad sword from there, which, already takes you to the second boss. i think this is easier too.[/I]

By the time I reached Dwarf Village I already had 150GP, so I could do them in either order. It makes more sense to do the sword first, as the detour from the Sprite Show to the Inn is longer than the detour from Watts to the Inn. It's only a couple of seconds but it all adds up.

[I]I decided to try and get the girl first so I could try the weapon glitch on Tropicallo. [/I]

I'm almost certain that this approach will take a lot longer. You have to do the following extra things: Talk to Dyluck, watch the Goblin scene, go to Pandora Castle and get the Girl, go into the Forest and leave again, level the sword up to lv2 before necessary. I think you're looking at a good 3+ minutes extra there. Compare this to doing Tropicallo the hard way, which takes around 60-90 seconds.

Edit: I compared my route and, after saving at Neko's after tropicallo, I was around 23:30. It's not as big a saving as I thought but it's still faster. Bear in mind that this wasn't particularly optimised, I just wanted to get an idea of how long it would take.

Fulgore

2006-11-27 06:30:52 pm

Wow, great work Madzombie! I suspect that you are right about getting the girl takes longer. I need to streamline the weapon leveling and compare the two times. Though, I don't have to fight the wolves/read text/name the girl either. But, I'm sure that you would be able to level the sword to lvl 2 and accomplish this faster than it takes for me to get the girl first and get the sword to lvl 2.

seiken

2006-11-29 10:22:43 am

Secret of Mana

Finally, people are now planning a new run Smiley

Good news

I wish you good luck in your quest Wink

So you are making a Segmengted NTSC very glitched run ?
You will use the 999 deg ? I don't see the interest, i think glitch is interressant only for TAS, even if i think TAS>TAS Glitched.
What about a non-glitched run ?
But a new cat glitch run remains nice for this great game Smiley

Madzombie : you have to be at about 20min after Tropicallo.

I'm always yet busy of speed running, but i could try a new attempt for my final speed run SS NTSC No Glitched for 07/08 2007.

I was making a fast walkthrough with emulator, i retook the work, after new planning and new tips, new ways, i know we can finish this game under 3H without any glitch on emulator, and 3H30 NTSC SS No Glitch is perharps possible.

I'll give you the file of emulator movie ( after it's finished ) : it will be interresting for to have training :
-hard room to pass ( precise way to take )
-boss magic test ( spam, magic level )

I'll post more later, i don't have actually many time, i wanted just to say i'm happy that other people than me try seriously to run this game ! Good luck Wink

Finally, people are now planning a new run :) Good news  ;)
I wish you good luck in your quest  ;)

So you are making a Segmengted NTSC very glitched run ?
You will use the 999 deg ? I don't see the interest, i think glitch is interressant only for TAS, even if i think TAS>TAS Glitched.
What about a non-glitched run ?
But a new cat glitch run remains nice for this great game :)

Madzombie : you have to be at about  20min after Tropicallo.

I'm always yet busy of speed running, but i could try a new attempt for my final speed run SS NTSC No Glitched for 07/08 2007.

I was making a fast walkthrough with emulator, i retook the work, after new planning and new tips, new ways, i know we can finish this game under 3H without any glitch on emulator, and 3H30 NTSC SS No Glitch is perharps possible.

I'll give you the file of emulator movie ( after it's finished ) : it will be interresting for to have training :
-hard room to pass ( precise way to take )
-boss magic test ( spam, magic level )

I'll post more later, i don't have actually many time, i wanted just to say i'm happy that other people than me try seriously to run this game ! Good luck  ;)

Madzombie

Edit history:

Madzombie: 2006-11-29 03:02:09 pm

2006-11-29 02:38:42 pm

pidgeons

Doh, I forgot to mention: my timing was on the PAL version of the game. It should be slower by about 1/6th but it varies from game to game. Seiken, I was timing until when I reached the Neko just beyond Watts, in Gaia's Navel. You don't go to him but if you had done it would have been at around 21:20. So yeah, my route seems slower, but that's partially because I was sloppy and just wanted a rough idea of the time. I also levelled the sword and spear up to lv1 in that time, which would have slowed me down a bit. I like your strategy against the Mantis ant, never knew that was possible and it looks really quick.

Saturn

2006-11-30 09:26:03 pm

Quote:

I'm somewhat tempted to do a run of either this or Secret of Evermore. I got up to the Mana Beast on a low level game, so I should be good at winning boss fights at low levels. SoE hasn't been done yet though, so I think it might be better to do a whole new run than to attempt to beat an existing run that other people are also interested in doing.

Just to let you know, I would be extremely interested to see a SoE run. Also you could be the first who speedrun this, clearly underrated RPG. I could also guide you through this game any time if you have questions.

qbradq

2006-12-18 02:34:27 pm

Nubsauce

Just to let ya'll know, I'm running SoM NTSC (no exploits, no save warping).

I'm planing on around 30 segments all together.

QBRADQ

ventuz

2006-12-19 01:07:48 am

Null

cool, good luck.

SomFe

Edit history:

SomFe: 2007-02-13 02:07:54 pm

2007-02-12 10:06:52 pm

Secret Of Mana ForEver

Hi, I'm a french SoM gamer, I can finish this under 6h30 in one step, and I training to run under 5 hours.
I wont talk with all warrior of this game ;D.

If anyone would speak withe me :
My msn adress : garsyl3@msn.com
other adress : garsyl@gmail.com

PS : If anyone knows the mail adress of Seiken, tell me. I don't arrive to contact he.