Secret of Evermore (SNES)

Lemon

Edit history:

Lemon: 2014-05-17 03:24:36 am

Lemon: 2014-05-17 03:24:03 am

2014-05-17 03:22:30 am

http://www.twitch.tv/datcraft/b/529051052?t=1h7m50s
http://www.twitch.tv/datcraft/b/528725240?t=2h26m30s
http://www.twitch.tv/datcraft/b/529007836?t=1h19m15s
http://www.twitch.tv/lemonsx/b/529280500?t=1h18m15s
http://www.twitch.tv/lemonsx/b/529280500?t=3h42m1s

GreenAmbler

Edit history:

GreenAmbler: 2014-05-17 04:57:57 am

2014-05-17 04:30:49 am

Thanks for the highlights. This does help narrow things down a bit. On some of those the raptors even got a couple attacks off, which is commonly the breaking point for the sound. Have we proved/disproved yet that going to the left cell first is more prone to crashes?

The main issue here still is Meta's 2 insta sound drops. Has anyone other than Meta had this happen? Could this be the telescope softlock all over again? Is there any differences between a lemon/DL/etc run and a Meta run?

Also good to have you back Lemon!

Edit: Also, in case anyone was wondering, it's completely random whether the first 4 cells you open will be a raptor or spider (but you will get 2 of each)

DLDarklink

2014-05-17 09:28:20 am

...

Meta is playing on a different SNES that doesnt softlock on telescope if i'm correct Wink

TheAngryPanda

Edit history:

TheAngryPanda: 2014-05-18 09:23:21 am

2014-05-18 09:22:44 am

Speed > Safety

Quote from GreenAmbler:

Thanks for the highlights. This does help narrow things down a bit. On some of those the raptors even got a couple attacks off, which is commonly the breaking point for the sound. Have we proved/disproved yet that going to the left cell first is more prone to crashes?

The main issue here still is Meta's 2 insta sound drops. Has anyone other than Meta had this happen? Could this be the telescope softlock all over again? Is there any differences between a lemon/DL/etc run and a Meta run?

Also good to have you back Lemon!

Edit: Also, in case anyone was wondering, it's completely random whether the first 4 cells you open will be a raptor or spider (but you will get 2 of each)

No, we haven't disproved anything at all so far, other than it actually can work on console. Everything else is still an unknown in regards to the influence on the trick.

I think there's one or two other confirmed cases of the sound insta-dropping, whether or not they're all from Meta or not I'm not sure. I could have sworn at least one of them was from someone else though which would mean it isn't just another telescope glitch.

The differences I'd look at at what kind of music is playing during each cell opening/room entry/room exit/etc.... Or perhaps even what the dog might be doing at certain points.

[quote="GreenAmbler"]Thanks for the highlights. This does help narrow things down a bit. On some of those the raptors even got a couple attacks off, which is commonly the breaking point for the sound. Have we proved/disproved yet that going to the left cell first is more prone to crashes?

The main issue here still is Meta's 2 insta sound drops. Has anyone other than Meta had this happen? Could this be the telescope softlock all over again? Is there any differences between a lemon/DL/etc run and a Meta run?

Also good to have you back Lemon!

Edit: Also, in case anyone was wondering, it's completely random whether the first 4 cells you open will be a raptor or spider (but you will get 2 of each)[/quote]

No, we haven't disproved anything at all so far, other than it actually can work on console. Everything else is still an unknown in regards to the influence on the trick.

I think there's one or two other confirmed cases of the sound insta-dropping, whether or not they're all from Meta or not I'm not sure. I could have sworn at least one of them was from someone else though which would mean it isn't just another telescope glitch.

The differences I'd look at at what kind of music is playing during each cell opening/room entry/room exit/etc.... Or perhaps even what the dog might be doing at certain points.

TheAngryPanda

2014-05-18 09:49:45 pm

Speed > Safety

Act 2 no VS TAS

I'll get the VS version uploaded when I actually get the same (or better if possible) luck on Aquagoth. This will show us how much time is lost in Act 2 w/o play influence. I'm also going to upload Act 3 no VS and VS versions to have the same comparison for there (up to Mungola death) to show the amount of time gained there.

Don't expect any of this anytime in the very near future, but hopefully it'll be done soon-ish.

MetaSigma

Edit history:

MetaSigma: 2014-05-19 09:22:57 am

2014-05-19 08:33:00 am

Evermore Extrodinare ᕦ(° Д°)ᕤ

Yeah I'm not the only one that got the insta-sound drop. Trying to remember who else it was that got it but I'm drawing a blank at this point.

As an aside the Verm Skip is now considered legit in WR attempts. It was up in the air before but a consensus agreement has been made. So now expect times to drop a lot. Despite it's finicky nature (And the fact it hasn't worked yet in a full run for myself) it's been proven else where on consoles so it's in.) Expect a lot more resets and so much more rage and fun!

CrAwEk

2014-05-20 01:55:05 am

Secret of Evermore any% Vermi-Skip WR 1:17:04
http://www.twitch.tv/crawek/c/4285675

DLDarklink

Edit history:

DLDarklink: 2014-05-20 02:48:18 am

2014-05-20 01:59:35 am

...

Well done Crawek Smiley

Now go and get the 1:16 Wink

edit: cool video Panda Cheesy

CrAwEk

2014-06-01 01:35:15 pm

Secret of Evermore any% WR 1:16:55
http://www.twitch.tv/crawek/c/4377122

DLDarklink

2014-06-01 01:43:35 pm

...

Good job Craw Smiley

GreenAmbler

2014-07-06 10:41:40 am

Since the general consensus for now is no verm skip, or at least not for official any% records, I'm gonna reiterate this alternative:

Quote from GreenAmbler:

Route 1: Current RTA

EK Sewers: 45 seconds
Jail fight: 25 seconds
Running thru town and fighting Verm: about 90 seconds
(necessary cutscenes)
Backtrack thru dungeon/sewers to rocks at Gomi's Tower: 30 seconds
Total: 190 seconds. Also take into consideration that this route involves setup for Verm, which would add time due to ingredient purchasing and crush leveling

Route 3: Verm skip w/ Dungeon

EK Sewers: 45 seconds
Jail fight: 25 seconds
Backtrack Sewers: 50 seconds
Wingsx2 thru forest from sewers entrance: 20 seconds (plus time getting 2 wings)
Run thru underground chessboard, chessboard, 2 EK screens before reaching Tinker cutscene: ~30 seconds TAS
(necessary cutscenes)
Backtrack thru dungeon/sewers to rocks at Gomi's Tower: 30 seconds
Total: 200 seconds (needs 2 extra Wings but no Verm setup)

So this Route 3 which I am fairly certain completely avoids the softlock by entering the EK jail properly the first time is about 10 seconds longer, BUT no time is needed for Verm setup. I'm not exactly sure how much time is spent in Act 2 preparing for Verm, but I imagine you could skip leveling/buying extra Crush and just unload them and all the call beads on Aqua to make up for it.

Since the general consensus for now is no verm skip, or at least not for official any% records, I'm gonna reiterate this alternative:[quote="GreenAmbler"]Route 1: Current RTA

EK Sewers: 45 seconds
Jail fight: 25 seconds
Running thru town and fighting Verm: about 90 seconds
(necessary cutscenes)
Backtrack thru dungeon/sewers to rocks at Gomi's Tower: 30 seconds
Total: 190 seconds. Also take into consideration that this route involves setup for Verm, which would add time due to ingredient purchasing and crush leveling

Route 3: Verm skip w/ Dungeon

EK Sewers: 45 seconds
Jail fight: 25 seconds
Backtrack Sewers: 50 seconds
Wingsx2 thru forest from sewers entrance: 20 seconds (plus time getting 2 wings)
Run thru underground chessboard, chessboard, 2 EK screens before reaching Tinker cutscene: ~30 seconds TAS
(necessary cutscenes)
Backtrack thru dungeon/sewers to rocks at Gomi's Tower: 30 seconds
Total: 200 seconds (needs 2 extra Wings but no Verm setup)
[/quote]

So this Route 3 which I am fairly certain completely avoids the softlock by entering the EK jail properly the first time is about 10 seconds longer, BUT no time is needed for Verm setup. I'm not exactly sure how much time is spent in Act 2 preparing for Verm, but I imagine you could skip leveling/buying extra Crush and just unload them and all the call beads on Aqua to make up for it.

TheAngryPanda

Edit history:

TheAngryPanda: 2014-07-06 05:09:04 pm

TheAngryPanda: 2014-07-06 04:20:30 pm

2014-07-06 04:05:48 pm

Speed > Safety

edit:

Apparently "everyone" decided it wasn't good to use.

Under the circumstances, the base route pre-Verm without defend/invincibility is the fastest, anything tacked on to that adds time, as usual.

I think the decision is to remove the trick is ridiculous and stupid, but whatever, just get a run that's worth submitting please...

ShadowDraft

2014-07-14 02:42:30 pm

Get over here!

Ok so since I've been learning the basic routes and stuff I decided to help out Omnigamer / the SoE with some savestates for the Verm Skip. Luckily I got it to work and not work. Here's two quick videos Smiley

With crash:

Without the crash:

This was played out on Bizhawk 1.7.1 within the same playthrough using savestates. Omni has those now to look into what actually causes the crash.

I have my own theory about it but I'm not certain it's actually the reason why it crashes or not. So while being in the dungeon the previous music keeps playing but on all my crashed attempts so far the music got butchered. On my succesful attempts the music was still somehow working. Sadly I have no idea if that's an indicator or not. Also on the crash attempts the boy moves a lot slower when entering the loading trigger.

Panda

2014-07-18 07:56:54 pm

Does anyone know a whole lot of about gdoc's that's willing to sit on skype and convert all the guides over into one location? I've noticed a lot of people starting to pick up the game and the guides are not updated to incorporate Verm Skip related changes and we don't need people running blind route changes instead of properly optimized ones in the future. Not that the people learning the game aren't smart enough to manage this on their own, it's just one more thing they got to worry about in the learning process, which is annoying.

On the same topic, the TAS is on hold until Verm Skip has been ultimately decided upon, everyone I talk to is still remaining split on whether it's good or not. There's also an issue with the latest version of Bizhawk (1.7.0) that causes a desync on the TAS in the first handful of frames. Luckily the good people working on that project have kept a wonderful history of the client downloads so that problem is really not as big of an issue. But in case people end up wondering why it was done on pre-1.7.0 stuff, there's the reason. Currently I have no desire to work on the game or do anything related to it other than help new people learn it because of the constantly indecisiveness going on. That being said, I'm busy with other projects also that are somewhat more important.

I'd also like to suggest to the new people learning the game to do races through Act 1 with/against the already known runners. This gives you experience, insight, and a range of times to assess and improve upon, which is invaluable for running this game due to the amount of RNG within the game itself that is constantly thrown at you.

Does anyone know a whole lot of about gdoc's that's willing to sit on skype and convert all the guides over into one location? I've noticed a lot of people starting to pick up the game and the guides are not updated to incorporate Verm Skip related changes and we don't need people running blind route changes instead of properly optimized ones in the future. Not that the people learning the game aren't smart enough to manage this on their own, it's just one more thing they got to worry about in the learning process, which is annoying.

On the same topic, the TAS is on hold until Verm Skip has been ultimately decided upon, everyone I talk to is still remaining split on whether it's good or not. There's also an issue with the latest version of Bizhawk (1.7.0) that causes a desync on the TAS in the first handful of frames. Luckily the good people working on that project have kept a wonderful history of the client downloads so that problem is really not as big of an issue. But in case people end up wondering why it was done on pre-1.7.0 stuff, there's the reason. Currently I have no desire to work on the game or do anything related to it other than help new people learn it because of the constantly indecisiveness going on. That being said, I'm busy with other projects also that are somewhat more important.

I'd also like to suggest to the new people learning the game to do races through Act 1 with/against the already known runners. This gives you experience, insight, and a range of times to assess and improve upon, which is invaluable for running this game due to the amount of RNG within the game itself that is constantly thrown at you.

TheAngryPanda

2014-07-22 04:59:18 pm

Speed > Safety

Alright, so I started converting stuff over to a gdoc: http://bombch.us/mit

It will take a while to actually move everything over and me to have it setup as nicely as the excel does in regards to formulas and stuff.

Here's a brief description of each tab:

Intro - list of streamers running the game, WR lists, anything else that I think might need to go there
FAQ - Basically a copy of my pastebin FAQ that's been slightly tweaked to be worded better and overall a better resource for future runners learning the game
Any% - No Verm-skip route
Any% VS - Verm-skip route
100% - 100% route
Monster Stats - For now it's going to be like in the excel doc with a stats chart and drop chances with some comments, eventually it may become a resource for AI manipulations/patterns
Calculators - General routing resources for people who want to try new things, if you have ideas for this, PLEASE PLEASE PLEASE let me know so I can try to incorporate them or give you access so you can
Dark Forest - Grid layout of Dark Forest for a visual reference that's condensed and easy to print out.
(other suggestions for tabs are welcomed and if you'd like to help, please contact me via the usual places, here, twitch (theangrypanda1), or skype if you have it)

All this being said, you guys should start supporting all the newer people learning this game as much as possible. It's a brutal bitch of a game and I'm sure they'd appreciate the encouragement/insight.

Alright, so I started converting stuff over to a gdoc: http://bombch.us/mit

It will take a while to actually move everything over and me to have it setup as nicely as the excel does in regards to formulas and stuff.

Here's a brief description of each tab:

Intro - list of streamers running the game, WR lists, anything else that I think might need to go there
FAQ - Basically a copy of my pastebin FAQ that's been slightly tweaked to be worded better and overall a better resource for future runners learning the game
Any% - No Verm-skip route
Any% VS - Verm-skip route
100% - 100% route
Monster Stats - For now it's going to be like in the excel doc with a stats chart and drop chances with some comments, eventually it may become a resource for AI manipulations/patterns
Calculators - General routing resources for people who want to try new things, if you have ideas for this, PLEASE PLEASE PLEASE let me know so I can try to incorporate them or give you access so you can
Dark Forest - Grid layout of Dark Forest for a visual reference that's condensed and easy to print out.
(other suggestions for tabs are welcomed and if you'd like to help, please contact me via the usual places, here, twitch (theangrypanda1), or skype if you have it)

All this being said, you guys should start supporting all the newer people learning this game as much as possible. It's a brutal bitch of a game and I'm sure they'd appreciate the encouragement/insight.

MetaSigma

2014-07-22 05:15:20 pm

Evermore Extrodinare ᕦ(° Д°)ᕤ

We'd all be willing to do so if they let us know whom they are. I am aware ShadowDraft has dabbled in it a bit lately, Nushaa as well though I haven't heard much from her lately. Who else is trying to learn the game that I'm not aware of?

TheAngryPanda

2014-07-22 05:27:41 pm

Speed > Safety

CarsonDaly is another one, there's apparently some others as well. I put all the people that have actually streamed the game on the introduction list (currently at least). So if I missed some, feel free to point them out.

CarsonDaly

Edit history:

CarsonDaly: 2014-07-23 04:46:48 pm

CarsonDaly: 2014-07-23 12:26:48 pm

CarsonDaly: 2014-07-23 12:26:24 pm

2014-07-23 12:25:59 pm

Hey guys,
Thanks alot for adding me to that list Panda, i just started speedrunning SoE so i don't feel like my runs are up to a level that makes them that worth watching, but thank you none the less.
I had a question for current runners- what kind of spam techniques do you guys use for advancing text? do you hit X+Y+A+B, or spam 1 or 2 buttons? or incorporate start and select? i'm not sure what the fastest method is but it seems like my text advancing is quite a bit slower than crawek and MetaSigma. Thanks in advance for any pointers!

MetaSigma

2014-07-23 04:47:00 pm

Evermore Extrodinare ᕦ(° Д°)ᕤ

I hit Y, B, A using both my hands. It's just habit, and it takes time.

TheAngryPanda

2014-07-23 06:16:21 pm

Speed > Safety

I roll my thumb across the buttons. Any input will work (even R/L/start/select). So just find 4 you can mash pretty rapidly while maintaining control over whatever else is needed. Be careful not to break the dog's searching animation during important times if those are ever a thing.

CarsonDaly

2014-07-24 07:26:33 am

awesome guys thanks for the tips! i've been spamming 3-4 buttons so i guess i'll just keep doing that. Cheesy

CrAwEk

2014-07-24 01:30:33 pm

hey guys

You can add vultuz and skarsnikus on secret of evermore guide.
What is your twitch CarsonDaly and shadowdraft?

CarsonDaly

Edit history:

CarsonDaly: 2014-07-24 01:47:13 pm

CarsonDaly: 2014-07-24 01:46:54 pm

CarsonDaly: 2014-07-24 01:46:02 pm

2014-07-24 01:45:40 pm

Mine is http://www.twitch.tv/carsondaly and i believe shadowdraft is http://www.twitch.tv/shadowdraft

CrAwEk

2014-07-24 01:49:25 pm

thx CarsonDaly^^

TheAngryPanda

2014-07-26 06:31:34 pm

Speed > Safety

If there is anything you guys think should be placed in the guide for whatever, I need to know so I can implement it when I convert everything to the gdoc. This means stuff like Calculators for various things, specific directions in maps, etc...

The only thing I can't do that I'd really appreciate some help with is developing some tutorials for each trick that we could shove together on a YT playlist somewhere with proper commentary and stuff.

The changes to the route regarding #of wings to buy for Verm Skip will already be included at the proper places.