Starting to feel back in the swing of things with this one, this a little less than 100K off my previous best. Think I'll get there sometime in the next couple days, it's been a long time since I've seen that little turtle push out a trophy.
It seems to me that most of you guys are playing very survival minded, which isn't a bad thing certainly, but you should keep in mind even if you have trouble surviving in stage 2 or 3, stage 1 is a great time to play aggressively for score since the rank hasn't had time to kick up yet and the bullets are still slow and not nearly as numerous. Here's some tips on how:
First, let me rattle off what I average on the different stage 1s
Sky - ~170K (best is about 174K, lot of practice on this one) Sea - ~170K (best is about 180K) Plant - ~180K (best is around 190K) Desert - ~185K (best is around 195K)
bsidwell's already said this, but the key to getting around those scores is to dragon shot basically everything. Pay attention to when and where the enemies spawn and their movements, how long they stay on screen, when they may bunch up for easy multiple kills and plan a route accordingly. I find it helps to use the stage music for audio cues. Be sure to get the flying jackpot thinger guy as well, it's worth letting a bunch of other guys go to make sure you get him.
While on the subject of the flying jackpot thingers, the safest way to get the most out of them is to simply not recall your dragon after killing the enemy that spawns it and keep firing, the dragon will collect for you. However the most lucrative way to play them is to park yourself in front of it and keep throwing dragon shots at the enemies while you collect. This takes some practice, but you'll net a bunch of extra points. The only stage 1 I don't do this in is Sea, and in Plant the benefits aren't nearly as big as Sky or Desert. Keep in mind you need to keep shooting to keep it in place and watch out for bullets obviously. You can do this in later stages too, but the difficulty ramps up.
As you start to get a better feel for where the enemies are coming from you should really try to stay towards the top half of the screen and just pick them of as they come with your dragon shot and weave back and forth alternating between killing guys and picking up the coins they drop. I know staying towards the top is a bit counterintuitive for a shmup, but it'll help your score immensely.
Also keep in mind the bumping into enemies doesn't kill you, just powers your regular shot down and has no effect on your dragon shot whatsoever. You do still want to avoid this if possible as grabbing power ups when your at full power are worth 3,000 a pop, but generating gold coins is definitely more important. Also if you're close enough to enemies they don't fire at you.
Some stage specific stuff (all for stage 1-1, though similar tactics work in later stages):
Sky - When the bats come in the beginning pick a side and alternate between killing the center one and whatever side you pick and kill as many of the fly enemies as possible. Be ready for the big dragonflies and pick em off before they have a chance to fire and move for easy coin collecting, same for the battleships.
Sea - Defintely the stage 1 where I get the most use out of my regular shot. Generally try to kill the plant things as soon as they open up with your dragon shot and in the two parts where the squids and little pods show up use you dragon shot to kill a group then move left or right and fire regularly to kill any pods left before they explode. Of the first four stages this one has the smallest window for the jackpot thinger so be ready for it. Get it, just park the dragon and shoot as many of the little green guys as possible with your normal shot while collecting. It should run out just after the big jellyfish fires of it's first round of shots, try to get it with a dragon shot before it fires again. Also be ready for the big fish enemies, ideally you can kill just about all of them except the 3 at the end before the have a chance to do their aimed shots (and you can get 2 of those if you're in the right position).
Plant - Kill any and all of the stationary plants as soon as possible as they'll clog the screen with bullets pretty quick if you don't even on level 1. The only other real threat here is the big flying enemies, know when they spawn and take em out quick. For the first form of the boss, don't speed kill him but wait until after he spits out the second set of pods as you can get a bunch of coins from them. Be ready for the attack and shoot once at one of the "arms" right when they spawn and then do a quick recall and shoot again in the middle.
Desert - Rough stage. Try to rig up killing the little wagons when the flyers spawn on top of them for a mess of coins. For the big wagons try to kill them as soon as they come on screen and take as many of the turrets out before you register the main kill for extra coins. For the big wagon at the end, DO NOT kill the first section immediately but instead use your dragon shot on the bombs it spits at you. This is tricky, but highly lucrative. It can be done without bombing, though it does make it alot easier, especially for Quaid and Rob. For the second section try to take out all the turrets before killing the main gun starting with the one at the bottom center (make sure to wait for it to open so you can one shot it).
One more advanced tactic, for the boss of desert you can get more points from him by ignoring the tech bonus and instead keeping him alive long enough to milk the sets of drones he spits out. In stage 1 it's not really worth it, but in 2 and up it makes a fairly substantial difference. It'll spit out 3 sets over the course of the fight, 4 if you manipulate him just right. Make sure you soften him up a bit while doing this though, because when he's done spitting out drones he'll ditch his bulky carapace for a faster flying form that spits out a nasty pattern. Hit him too much though and he won't spit out drones at all and just spit a nasty pattern from the carapace. It's a fine line to walk, but it's worth it.
Some people like keyboard, some like pad, some like stick. If you're gonna use a pad, me and bsidwell like the SF4 fightpad. Somewhat ironically, it's a much better shmup pad than a fighter pad (diagonals are a bit hard to activate but for shmups you typically roll into diagonals and don't need to tap-dodge diagonally). Mike has it too but I don't know if he uses it on the PC. Of course, given that it's Mad Catz, I always get the feeling like it's about to break any day, but for now it works nicely.
No, I use a ps2 pad, and I like the fightpad for fighting games.
It seems to me that most of you guys are playing very survival minded
I have the complete opposite problem in this game, and it would be even worse if I picked Ian. I think I want to score well at first and then I can start Quaid bomb abusing when it gets rough. The random stage order blows chunks when learning this game, it's geared for the long haul, when you would be thankful for the variety. Gonna test save state at the character select screen to see if that locks in the order. Would that be allowed? I use that method for Batrider special course. 8)
I'm milking the bosses too but I'm not even sure that's a good idea for a weekly. Awesome post btw. Oh yeah, I keep forgetting to talk about your GG Shinobi replay, I'll do that later I guess.
Quote from Shadow_Jacky:
I use my PS2 controller. although I wish I could use the analog stick, but d-pad is fine for the majority of what I play.
Even if your game doesn't always support it, you can use the analog stick in any game using something like xpadder or joy2key.
Gonna test save state at the character select screen to see if that locks in the order. Would that be allowed? I use that method for Batrider special course. 8)
That seems a bit against the spirit of this thing to me, but at the same time I don't really see a way to stop people from doing it, so go ahead. Not sure when exactly stage order is determined though, so it might not even work.
I did mean to talk about the different stage orders as well but forgot, probably throw something up later.
Quote:
I'm milking the bosses too but I'm not even sure that's a good idea for a weekly.
The thing with the desert boss definitely isn't all that critical and probably a little too risky for most of you who are just starting out this week. The thing with the plant boss though is money in the bank and really not that hard at all in level 1 at least and not bad in level 2 either, can't see a good reason not to do it there. In 3 and 4 it does get pretty nutty, but the rewards go up too.
I got sick of Dragon Blaze yesterday and decided to pick up GG Shinobi again. I was quite rusty at first so I didn't expect much, but I got this run (linked below). It's nothing out of the ordinary, and the run isn't even complete (I got an unlucky last boss pattern), but it still shows the potential of the GPYB route and highlights a few good tricks. If I had finished the run, the time would've been around 10:40. Sub-10:30 is possible and hopefully sub-10:20 since I'm sure I'm missing numerous small time-savers and I don't even know if I'm using the fastest route
My main problem was that I couldn't shoot, move diagonally and dragonshot at the same time so I had to release the fire button (or a movement key but that would be disastrous in most cases). I moved around the action keys abit so that they were spread out around the keyboard and it seems to be working better now.
btw, are the stage numbers for the score reports supposed to be last finished stage (like they've been in previous tournaments) or the stage you died on (like the ingame scoreboard uses)?
Normand: Wow, that's an awesome replay. Really like some of the strats, there's definitely some stuff in there I'd never have thought of.
And sorry to hear you're sick of Dragon Blaze, though I hope you'll at least post a score for the week.
moooh: Post the stage you died on.
Also, I've mentioned this on irc but not here. Please don't edit your score posts if they're from before the last time I updated the front page. It makes things that much easier for me.
And as long as I'm posting, here's some talk on stage order.
Some of you may have noticed you do get a set stage order when you first fire up MAME. If you don't let the attract sequence run you'll always get the order Sky, Sea, Desert, Plant on your first credit. This isn't a bad order imo for good scoring, but not ideal. Lets break this down by stage.
Sky:
Stage 1 - Flies are sparse. 3 rows of single bats in the early going, few of the gargoyle enemies.
Stage 2 - More flies, bats are the same, a few more gargoyles.
Stage 3 - Even more flies, bats change to 2 rows of 2 (which is easier for lucrative dragon shots), more gargoyle enemies too at every point they appear, most of which escape through the center so you can take out a bunch of them at once.
Stage 4 - No real noticable difference except more bullets (and this stage gets a ton of bullets, the bats especially are truly nasty).
Best place to get it: 2 or 3, you lose a lot of potential points getting this as stage 1.
Sea:
Stage 1: The little jellyfish come in sets of two. All the big fish appear solo, less pods and squids when they appear. The anenome things are fairly docile.
Stage 2: Little jellyfish come in threes, slightly more pods and squids in their sections. The second big fish spawn is a group of two, not much else different.
Stage 3: More pods and squids. One of the sets of fish in the middle of the stage spawns as a duo and the three solo fish at the end are replaced by two sets of two.
Stage 4: Little difference from 3, just (a lot) more bullets.
Best place to get it: 1, you lose less here than you do on any other stage getting it early, plus the tech bonus is infinitely easier here than stages 2 and up (it's the only one I can't manage consistently on stage 2 without a bomb for what it's worth).
Desert:
Format change, because only so much changes here in the way of formations. You get more of the little wagons and the green ground guys are the stage go up. Biggest changes are the first section of the end wagon and the boss. In stage 3 and 4 the wagon spits out a lot more bombs, and you can really clean up here. I generally burn a bomb or two if I have it and rake in the coins. For the boss, if you plan to use the milking strategy I talked about in my earlier post, stages 3 and 4 is where it really starts to pay dividends.
Best place to get it: 3 or 4, hands down. It's one of the tougher stages to get late, but also one of the most lucrative.
Plant:
Another stage where not too much changes outside of bullet volume. The rows of basic flyers that appear through the middle section get more numerous, but it's hard to take advantage as taking out the stationary plants pretty much needs to be your highest priority. You do get some of the gargoyle guys from the Sky stage at stages 2 and up towards the end, anmd the number increases in stages 3 and 4. Biggest difference in terms of score potential is the number of pods the first form of the boss spits out, and it does make a rather hefty difference in stages 3 and 4. Another notewrothy things is in the boss's final form: while the first pattern gets crazier with the later stages the pattern he releases right before he exposes his core does not change at all from stage 1 on. Once you get the hang of nailing that tech bonus, you can do it on any stage.
Best place to get it: Honestly 3 or 4 for the boss milking, but you don't lose too much getting it earlier.
So keeping the above in mind, the stage order I hope for generally is Sea, Sky, Desert, Plant, though probably the best for overall score is something like Sea, Plant, Sky, Desert.
Of course, since the order is random I'm not sure much this helps, but maybe you guys can take something from it.
Also, not sure if they're still there but there were a bunch of vids on youtube showing how to hit the different tech bonuses. If you guys want to search them out I'm sure they'd be helpful.
those vids are still up by some guy called exmosquito.
even looking at those, I still can't do any other boss except sky.
also it seems bosses won't show their core if they are damaged too much.
I usually don't fire on them during their second form and just focus on dodging the first wave of bullets. Once they change to the second pattern, I fire a bomb and prepare the hit their core. Seems to work every time.
Normand, I just saw your GG shinobi replay and it was quite impressive. You clearly did a lot of research.
However, there are some things I want to point out.
Valley:
-I think it's faster to just use a charged shot while walking over the water, and just jump up and collect the life icon, you'll get hit, but you don't have to walk on the ground at all.
-If you use yellow in the second area, you can kill the bomb thrower by jumping up with a charged shot, then hitting him again when you actually need to jump on the ledge, IIRC.
-Your boss fight can be faster.
1. First charge your shot for about 2-3 seconds, then jump up and fire to the left.
2. Now charge your shot again, jump up on the rightmost platform (I think it's the rightmost), then jump again and hit the boss in the face with your charged shot.
3. Now immediately crouch, face left and fire an uncharged shot to the left.
Repeat steps 2 and 3 (just ignore the part about jumping on the platform since you should already be on it). This strategy should save a couple of seconds over your current one.
Final Stage:
-I thought it was better to jump down when you're further to the right in the second room.
-Pretty sure you could have cleared the electricity room faster by going through the third spark in one pass (not 100% sure about this though).
-It's faster to use pink against the face boss. I've occasionally been able to kill the face boss in one pass with pink, but it's incredibly hard to do.
I forgot how crazy the end of stage 5 gets. The stretch right before the boss and the boss itself gives me a lot of trouble. The thing with the boss is he's probably the single easiest tech bonus in the game, if you know when it's coming there's no bullets to weave through, it's just surviving until he exposes his core.
I'm heading out of town this weekend, so this might be it for me. The next couple days I'm either going to have lots of time to play or next to none. Closing the week and opening the next shouldn't be a problem though, so for now things will stay on the normal schedule.
Mike : Heh, yeah there is a bunch of things in this run that should be revised if someone (that's you Breakdown :P) decides to do a run for SDA. I used the simplest method to defeat the Valley boss even though there are 2-3 ways to beat him more quickly. Nice catch on the bombs destroying the face in one loop
those vids are still up by some guy called exmosquito.
The superplay you want to get is by SYO. RIDICULOUSLY AWESOME (will make your face explode), highly recommended (unless your face is valuable to you).
Quote from Breakdown:
Quote from Enhasa:
Gonna test save state at the character select screen to see if that locks in the order. Would that be allowed? I use that method for Batrider special course. 8)
That seems a bit against the spirit of this thing to me, but at the same time I don't really see a way to stop people from doing it, so go ahead. Not sure when exactly stage order is determined though, so it might not even work.
I tried and it works perfectly. However, I didn't use it because I agree, it does kinda feel against the spirit. Was wondering why the exact same thing in Batrider feels perfectly fine, and I guess it's because normal and advanced use stage edit, so it feels natural for special to have ghetto stage edit. The random stages is a Psikyo tradition too. At any rate, devil's advocate would say "well I could just retry over and over again until I got that order" but for a weekly, time and effort does matter a lot. What I ended up doing was reset every time I didn't start off with Sea. The startup is fast, so not really annoying as you would expect.
Enhasa - 730,300 - Quaid - 1-5
Order was Sea, Sky, Plant, Desert. I'm more than happy, I'll keep playing but I probably wouldn't top this anyway this week. My goal was over 600k since that was my previous best (from last year), and I was so surprised I didn't get only 600k but 700k. Starting 1-5, I flip the switch and just start playing for survival. I made it to the boss and had a lot of lucky dodges throughout. Trick to scoring in a weekly for this game is to pick Quaid, and never die without fully utilizing your bombs. The difference between playing for score and survival in this game is so nuts. DB actually reminds me of Dangun Feveron more than anything else, hanging around the top and speedkilling, and picking up their remains. Maybe I should go back to DF main game to see if I can like the game again after the pain of caravan mode.
Normand: Heh, don't think I'll be doing an official run for the game. I might be able to dig the cart and a game gear out of my parents house, but I don't see me getting all Frankenstein on it to make a recording rig.
And as for your run, I'm still pretty sure Blue first is the way to go. How much time he saves on Green's stage I'm pretty sure outweighs Yellow's savings in Valley.
X: Really pretty much any version of MAME you can get your hands on should run this game fine (they did play it in STGT 06). A quick google search should get you something that works just fine.
Enhasa: I was planning on linking to that superplay at the end of the week, definitely one of my favorite gameplay vids on my hard drive. And I think you hit the nail on the head as to why savestating for stage order feels dirty here and not in Batrider, plus there the wrong order can impact your score much more severely with potential missed stages and crap medal bonuses.
Also, had I gone with a Cave game this week it probably would've been Dangun's main game, but it does suffer from the same hair pulling frustration as TA mode at a certain point (miss a DM, reset, and there's no S.O.S warning in the main game). Granted most people wouldn't have gotten to that point in a weekly because the difficulty ramps up so quickly, it's the hardest Cave game to simply survive in that I've played to date.
If people are going to keep asking for MAME versions, I recommend MAME Plus for general use. Get one that's not a revision so you can have the integrated UI, especially if you are used to traditional MAME, and not the frontend. The revision releases have like r+numbers at the end. Official MAME builds are a lot worse for us than Plus and MAMEFX, which are the gamer-focused versions of MAME.
WolfMAME .99 or .106 is good for watching replays, since a lot of people use those, but for MAME you need the exact version of MAME and the exact version number, so besides WolfMAME .99 I usually just download MAME binaries just to watch one replay, then delete.
If you want to play online, I recommend NFBA instead of any MAME, which is a lot better and more stable, but supports much less games. CPS2 and Neo Geo and Cave/Raizing/Psikyo/Toaplan are all in it though I think. If you need netplay in a game not supported by NFBA, the best version (can't find online anymore so I hosted it) is MAME++ .117. Both players need the exact same version of emulator.
If you want to make a TAS, good luck, mz is a pariah. You can use his rerecording FBA, just to make your own fun TAS's not for TASVideos submission I guess.
It's not going to get better than this. For some reason I always seem to end up with the desert stage as the third stage when I'm doing well and there's just too many trigger happy cannons clumped together for me to survive any further.