Rayman 2: The Great Escape

luke100

Edit history:

luke100: 2014-03-21 07:36:33 am

luke100: 2014-03-21 07:31:21 am

2014-03-21 07:21:36 am

Unreal - neither the Echoing Caves skip, nor the Sanctuary of Ice and Water clip work for me. Even if you could change your resolution to high, it wouldn't matter, because I'm pretty sure your PC can handle 1024x768 instead of 800x600. There's a setup tool in game's folder which lets you change the resolution, but not during the gameplay. And the lag is identical on all resolutions - which means there is none, almost constant 60fps. I didn't even try the Whale Bay underwater trick.
EDIT: Also, if you could PLEASE explain to me what is there so tempting about the box right after Clark in Menhir Hills that all of you feel so much of a need to jump on it, I'd be grateful Cheesy

With this, the lums in the cage up there are a waste of probably something around 7 seconds, which I don't think is worth it. I did think about the cage later on that Mano suggested and I'm still considering it. I just didn't feel the need for it since my path up untill now was (technically) perfectly at 550 lums.

Unreal - neither the Echoing Caves skip, nor the Sanctuary of Ice and Water clip work for me. Even if you could change your resolution to high, it wouldn't matter, because I'm pretty sure your PC can handle 1024x768 instead of 800x600. There's a setup tool in game's folder which lets you change the resolution, but not during the gameplay. And the lag is identical on all resolutions - which means there is none, almost constant 60fps. I didn't even try the Whale Bay underwater trick.
EDIT: Also, if you could PLEASE explain to me what is there so tempting about the box right after Clark in Menhir Hills that all of you feel so much of a need to jump on it, I'd be grateful :D
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kIi5IYwYWEI
With this, the lums in the cage up there are a waste of probably something around 7 seconds, which I don't think is worth it. I did think about the cage later on that Mano suggested and I'm still considering it. I just didn't feel the need for it since my path up untill now was (technically) perfectly at 550 lums.

Unreal704

Edit history:

Unreal704: 2014-03-21 10:25:22 am

Unreal704: 2014-03-21 10:24:44 am

2014-03-21 10:24:21 am

Also known as Bottles/Sydynski

Wow, I've tried that before and never got to hit that lum. Nice trick! I must have been trying to hit it when I was too close to the lum.

I've gotten the sanctuary of water and ice clip on pc but I think I just got lucky. I tried it again and could not get it after an hour of attempts. I also got the mini boss skip very easily after a few tries. I'm going to attempt it again and see if I again, just got lucky. >_> I was wondering why you did not use it in your pb. As for those 3 lums in the cage, they may save some time if we can find 3 lums to ignore that are somewhat out of the way. I can't think of any that come to mind. Maybe the 3 at the end of the first flying barrel section of echoing caves. Possibly execute the flying barrel glitch and use cloakedyoshi's trick to skip hitting the switch and clip out to the next section. Clipping through walls via the barrel glitch is easier than n64 iirc.

As for the version differences between pc and n64. The only big difference I see is the lag. Would that prove to be a separate category for this game? For example, a world record on pc vs. a world record on n64? I'm not sure if SDA would have two separate records just because one version has more lag then the other. But maybe I'm wrong.

Wow, I've tried that before and never got to hit that lum. Nice trick! I must have been trying to hit it when I was too close to the lum.

I've gotten the sanctuary of water and ice clip on pc but I think I just got lucky. I tried it again and could not get it after an hour of attempts. I also got the mini boss skip very easily after a few tries. I'm going to attempt it again and see if I again, just got lucky. >_> I was wondering why you did not use it in your pb. As for those 3 lums in the cage, they may save some time if we can find 3 lums to ignore that are somewhat out of the way. I can't think of any that come to mind. Maybe the 3 at the end of the first flying barrel section of echoing caves. Possibly execute the flying barrel glitch and use cloakedyoshi's trick to skip hitting the switch and clip out to the next section. Clipping through walls via the barrel glitch is easier than n64 iirc.

As for the version differences between pc and n64. The only big difference I see is the lag. Would that prove to be a separate category for this game? For example, a world record on pc vs. a world record on n64? I'm not sure if SDA would have two separate records just because one version has more lag then the other. But maybe I'm wrong.

luke100

Edit history:

luke100: 2014-03-21 11:00:57 am

2014-03-21 10:57:03 am

Two more things. There are certain cutscenes during which you can move on PC and can't on N64, which potentially might save about 2-3 seconds per such cutscene. There's probably about 5 or 6 of them, I'm not quite sure. Also, on PC you can skip the "meanwhile on Prison Ship" cutscene that opens the Bayou. Roughly a minute of a timesave.
EDIT: Oh, and the first part of the intro is skippable on PC. Doesn't really have any impact on the actual run, as the time is measured from the moment you take control over Rayman, these cutscenes don't matter, but still.
And remember, the lag difference is quite a difference, at least in my opinion. N64 is 30fps at most, sometimes drops below that. PC never drops below 30fps, and, if played fullscreen, barely drops below 60fps.

blubbler

2014-03-21 11:15:02 am

Wall clips depend completely on how much fps you have. The only way to do them on PC is to run programs in the background that slow you down or buy a very old one.
And since you probably won't be able to have a completely stable framerate anyway, it's probably best not to do any wallclips on PC runs (or have background programs and abuse this to the full extent, basically walking through any corner at will).
Which is part of the reason I don't really want to run this anymore - on PC at least.
btw I saw someone run the PS version of this and every single cutscene was skippable, that's probably the most enjoyable on to run despite the other shortcomings of it.
And has anyone looked into the skip I do here at 0:47 in the Cave of Bad Dreams?

It was done with major slowdown, but still comparatively easy. I can imagine this working on N64, but can't test it.

luke100

2014-03-21 11:33:00 am

Tbh lack of wall clips is part of the reason I'd rather play PC over N64 Cheesy

But yeah, PS1 version has all skippable cutscenes. I was thinking about picking it up someday, maybe. You can get sub 1h50min on it.

Unreal704

Edit history:

Unreal704: 2014-03-21 12:18:09 pm

2014-03-21 12:00:36 pm

Also known as Bottles/Sydynski

Hmm, maybe pc runs would be a separate category. Sounds like the playstation version would defiantly be separate.

Blubber that clip on the n64 should be possible. I'm going to try it out. You were running at 5 fps?

Here is a stone and fire 100% timesaver. It saves roughly a few seconds according to my timing then going the normal way.

Manocheese

Edit history:

Manocheese: 2014-03-21 12:28:37 pm

2014-03-21 12:27:44 pm

Yes, a cucco riding the ground.

Quote from Unreal704:

I'm not sure if you use the first strategy already in your 100% runs cheese, but the trick is to move a bit to the right on the second mushroom so the shell doesn't run into the tree and kill itself.

I've tried something similar in that room, but haven't found anything consistent. I'll try your method.

Quote from Unreal704:

Here is a stone and fire 100% timesaver. It saves roughly a few seconds according to my timing then going the normal way.

Awesome. I'll have to try that.

Quote from blubbler:

And has anyone looked into the skip I do here at 0:47 in the Cave of Bad Dreams?

It was done with major slowdown, but still comparatively easy. I can imagine this working on N64, but can't test it.

I've tried that many times over the years, but never gotten it to work.

luke100

2014-03-21 12:39:47 pm

Quote from Unreal704:

Here is a stone and fire 100% timesaver. It saves roughly a few seconds according to my timing then going the normal way.

Just wanted to say, this trick is absolutely amazing.

Unreal704

Edit history:

Unreal704: 2014-03-21 05:39:50 pm

Unreal704: 2014-03-21 04:48:02 pm

Unreal704: 2014-03-21 02:30:42 pm

2014-03-21 02:09:42 pm

Also known as Bottles/Sydynski

What's cool about the pc version is that the maps are connected unlike the n64. For instance, in the boss area of sanctuary of stone and fire. The last area where you collect the 2 orbs and the wheel spins. Maybe Manocheese's theory of skipping the orange orb is possible on pc. We can get out of bounds with the plum (i have not gotten that to work on pc yet) and maybe jump to the top area of the wheel. Or maybe use your helicopter to float to the area where the mask is.

Cheese's theory

edit: Whenever I land on the plum when it is underneath the wall, rayman is pushed off the plum by the wall. I think clipping through walls with the plum may be n64 only.

edit2: Could someone tell me the trick to grabbing that last lum in the fairy glade from the purple lum? I tried moving to the back of the whirlwind but my rope is not long enough to grab it. I have no consistency with this trick.

Manocheese

2014-03-21 07:49:10 pm

Yes, a cucco riding the ground.

Quote from Unreal704:

edit2: Could someone tell me the trick to grabbing that last lum in the fairy glade from the purple lum? I tried moving to the back of the whirlwind but my rope is not long enough to grab it. I have no consistency with this trick.

I think moving to the front of the wind tunnel (closest to the lum) might actually work better. I've been doing that in 100% and I usually get a pretty long rope.

Quote from Unreal704:

edit: Whenever I land on the plum when it is underneath the wall, rayman is pushed off the plum by the wall. I think clipping through walls with the plum may be n64 only.

That might be the case. However, I usually got pushed off when I tried it on N64. It's probably worth trying some more; it could lead to a huge timesaver. If there's a moonjump code on PC, it might be worth floating past the wall like I did in that video and then seeing where you can go from there.

Another theory for skipping the orange orb involves getting the plum near Umber out of the lava. If you could do that, you might be able to ride the plum to the mask. If the lava destroys the plum, you could still use it to jump up to the blue orb.

Another potentially big timesaver would be to access the "secret" area of the Fairy Glade (the area you normally access from the Echoing Caves) from the normal part of the Fairy Glade. You could then get the lums and death warp back to the main area. It might not even be necessary to get Rayman into the secret area; if you could somehow hit the cage, you could probably just jump toward the lums and they would float toward you. I haven't had any luck with these theories, though.

[quote="Unreal704"]edit2: Could someone tell me the trick to grabbing that last lum in the fairy glade from the purple lum? I tried moving to the back of the whirlwind but my rope is not long enough to grab it. I have no consistency with this trick.[/quote]
I think moving to the front of the wind tunnel (closest to the lum) might actually work better. I've been doing that in 100% and I usually get a pretty long rope.

[quote="Unreal704"]edit: Whenever I land on the plum when it is underneath the wall, rayman is pushed off the plum by the wall. I think clipping through walls with the plum may be n64 only.[/quote]
That might be the case. However, I usually got pushed off when I tried it on N64. It's probably worth trying some more; it could lead to a huge timesaver. If there's a moonjump code on PC, it might be worth floating past the wall like I did in that video and then seeing where you can go from there.

Another theory for skipping the orange orb involves getting the plum near Umber out of the lava. If you could do that, you might be able to ride the plum to the mask. If the lava destroys the plum, you could still use it to jump up to the blue orb.

Another potentially big timesaver would be to access the "secret" area of the Fairy Glade (the area you normally access from the Echoing Caves) from the normal part of the Fairy Glade. You could then get the lums and death warp back to the main area. It might not even be necessary to get Rayman into the secret area; if you could somehow hit the cage, you could probably just jump toward the lums and they would float toward you. I haven't had any luck with these theories, though.

Unreal704

Edit history:

Unreal704: 2014-03-22 01:11:11 am

2014-03-22 12:51:40 am

Also known as Bottles/Sydynski

I was trying to get the plum out of the lava but had no luck. I came very close, the plum rode up the corner for a split second but went back down. With a precise angle and timing it may be possible to get the plum out.

I haven't found any moon jump codes for pc. Also had no luck getting out of bounds with the plum. I'll try again though.

Manocheese

2014-03-22 08:55:05 pm

Yes, a cucco riding the ground.

I was trying your OoB trick and I found a faster way to get the plum into position. Here's a video:

I also included a little trick I found a while back in Sanctuary of Stone and Fire.

Unreal704

Edit history:

Unreal704: 2014-03-22 10:12:00 pm

Unreal704: 2014-03-22 10:11:09 pm

Unreal704: 2014-03-22 10:08:57 pm

Unreal704: 2014-03-22 09:26:20 pm

Unreal704: 2014-03-22 09:24:39 pm

Unreal704: 2014-03-22 09:24:22 pm

Unreal704: 2014-03-22 09:22:58 pm

Unreal704: 2014-03-22 09:22:12 pm

Unreal704: 2014-03-22 09:18:21 pm

2014-03-22 09:17:27 pm

Also known as Bottles/Sydynski

Nice job. When I was timing the normal way to the cage vs. the out-of-bounds trick, I timed my trick as 3 seconds faster. Even with the sloppy play in my video it was faster. So with your setup you are guaranteed to save 6-8 seconds. I like that second trick as well, will save a few seconds.

That super slide…. o_0 So basically you were running, got hit by the steam of the cannonball right when the text triggered. Interesting, has that ever happened to you without a cutscene? IIRC something similar happened to me when I was playing on emulator except there was no text. I think I got hit by a pirate and gained some extra distance. I thought it was an emulator glitch but your video proves that it may not have been.

On another note, how are your 100% runs going?

edit: Superslide replicated

I was holding the direction I was moving while I slid. The key is to run into a hit box as soon as the "yeah" text and rayman animation trigger. I have no idea if this can be done without the animation/text. Interesting to say the least.

Nice job. When I was timing the normal way to the cage vs. the out-of-bounds trick, I timed my trick as 3 seconds faster. Even with the sloppy play in my video it was faster. So with your setup you are guaranteed to save 6-8 seconds.  I like that second trick as well, will save a few seconds.

That super slide…. o_0 So basically you were running, got hit by the steam of the cannonball right when the text triggered. Interesting, has that ever happened to you without a cutscene? IIRC something similar happened to me when I was playing on emulator except there was no text. I think I got hit by a pirate and gained some extra distance. I thought it was an emulator glitch but your video proves that it may not have been.

On another note, how are your 100% runs going?

edit: [url=https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yGy_gZdJtls&feature=youtu.be]Superslide replicated[/url]

I was holding the direction I was moving while I slid. The key is to run into a hit box as soon as the "yeah" text and rayman animation trigger. I have no idea if this can be done without the animation/text. Interesting to say the least.

Manocheese

2014-03-23 01:11:34 am

Yes, a cucco riding the ground.

Quote from Unreal704:

edit: Superslide replicated

I was holding the direction I was moving while I slid. The key is to run into a hit box as soon as the "yeah" text and rayman animation trigger. I have no idea if this can be done without the animation/text. Interesting to say the least.

I wonder how consistently this can be done. If it's easy to do, we could save a few seconds by sliding down those hallways while the text is playing.

Quote from Unreal704:

On another note, how are your 100% runs going?

Pretty well. I expect to beat my 2:39:32 soon. When I do, I think I'll go through the run and analyze how much time I lost to get a better idea of what time to shoot for.

Unreal704

Edit history:

Unreal704: 2014-03-23 07:57:25 pm

Unreal704: 2014-03-23 04:57:51 pm

Unreal704: 2014-03-23 04:55:28 pm

2014-03-23 04:55:13 pm

Also known as Bottles/Sydynski

Quote from Manocheese:

I wonder how consistently this can be done. If it's easy to do, we could save a few seconds by sliding down those hallways while the text is playing.

The timing seems to be pretty precise. To the frame so to speak. Out of 50 tries I only executed the slide twice. This sounds like a great tas trick. Although, a tas run may run past all 3 of the barrel robots with manipulation. I can't think of other places this could be used.

edit: I was attempting to skip the orange orb on pc by clipping through the wall with the plum and I had no success. Basically, when you jump out of bounds the game warps you behind the slide of the orange orb section. I then had a theory of using the helicopter to float to the boss area section and maybe land on one of the upper ledges. Sadly, when you warp to the orange orb section you cannot control rayman, no button input can be registered because the game thinks you are going down the slide I believe and you are stuck in a short cutscene. You basically fall to your death. I have not tried to jump to the blue orb section yet, so I will attempt that next.

[quote="Manocheese"]
I wonder how consistently this can be done. If it's easy to do, we could save a few seconds by sliding down those hallways while the text is playing.[/quote]
The timing seems to be pretty precise. To the frame so to speak. Out of 50 tries I only executed the slide twice. This sounds like a great tas trick. Although, a tas run may run past all 3 of the barrel robots with manipulation. I can't think of other places this could be used.

edit: I was attempting to skip the orange orb on pc by clipping through the wall with the plum and I had no success. Basically, when you jump out of bounds the game warps you behind the slide of the orange orb section. I then had a theory of using the helicopter to float to the boss area section and maybe land on one of the upper ledges. Sadly, when you warp to the orange orb section you cannot control rayman, no button input can be registered because the game thinks you are going down the slide I believe and you are stuck in a short cutscene. You basically fall to your death. I have not tried to jump to the blue orb section yet, so I will attempt that next.

Unreal704

Edit history:

Unreal704: 2014-03-26 12:29:07 pm

Unreal704: 2014-03-26 12:12:27 pm

Unreal704: 2014-03-26 12:09:31 pm

Unreal704: 2014-03-26 12:09:21 pm

2014-03-26 12:07:05 pm

Also known as Bottles/Sydynski

Wanted to bump the thread to show this new trick that will save 20 seconds in the canopy. This trick would skip one lum but that can be picked up else where. The key is to run towards the pole as you shoot or the shot will fade away and won't hit the pole. It is possible to grab the second lum that you would normally get with the flower by jumping from the pole. This is possible on n64 as well. I originally found it by accident while playing on n64. >_>

Flower Skip

Manocheese

Edit history:

Manocheese: 2014-03-26 12:42:05 pm

Manocheese: 2014-03-26 12:40:03 pm

2014-03-26 12:39:49 pm

Yes, a cucco riding the ground.

Awesome. I'll have to give that a try. At first glance, it looks like those lums might not actually lose time, since you have to wait for Globox anyway. As for your other tricks, I think I'll use most of them in 100%. The main trick I don't think I'll use is skipping the middle spike in Sanctuary of Stone and Fire. I can throw the plum at the last spike consistently, but for some reason, it often falls off immediately, forcing me to get another plum. Also, even if it doesn't fall off right away, it sometimes vanishes when I get close to it. These annoyances make the trick pretty inconsistent, even if I do the throw correctly every time.

Unreal704

Edit history:

Unreal704: 2014-03-26 01:00:19 pm

Unreal704: 2014-03-26 12:59:38 pm

2014-03-26 12:57:56 pm

Also known as Bottles/Sydynski

What I do is spam B as soon as I throw the plum and hold forward. I then use the helicopter to float to one of the platforms in front of me. If you stay on the first platform the plum will vanish. I did execute that trick on emulator so maybe it is more difficult on n64 due to lag.

Manocheese

Edit history:

Manocheese: 2014-03-26 01:15:54 pm

2014-03-26 01:14:42 pm

Yes, a cucco riding the ground.

There's actually a different type of vanishing that can happen. When you're a few feet from the plum, sometimes it disappears instantly. It doesn't fade away like it does when you get too far from it, so I think it's a glitch.

I tried the flower skip and I see which lum you're talking about (the one above the flower). The need to water the flower makes the trick less useful in 100%, but I think it still saves time. If the pole is down while you're riding the flower, Globox will run up the pole.

Speaking of the Canopy, have you tried skipping the fire? If we could get the green lum on the other side and then death warp, we could save time by not waiting for Globox.

Unreal704

Edit history:

Unreal704: 2014-03-26 02:25:22 pm

Unreal704: 2014-03-26 01:46:57 pm

Unreal704: 2014-03-26 01:46:41 pm

2014-03-26 01:21:18 pm

Also known as Bottles/Sydynski

I've tried skipping the fire a while ago but had no luck. I came really close to the green lum but it would not come towards me. I'll go try some more.

edit: Right before you enter the cave that leads to the fire, if you jump towards the back of the rocks, you can see the area where you fight the pirate I believe. This is hard for me to explain, but maybe you can float back there with moon jump to see if you can walk on that piece of land. I can't test it with moon jump cause I don't have a gameshark and there is no moon jump on pc.

edit2: I was able to jump into that hole that is across from the fire that leads to an oob. I though I would be able to jump across the fire from there but it is too far and I can't reach the lum.

Manocheese

2014-03-26 02:27:59 pm

Yes, a cucco riding the ground.

I found a cool timesaver at the end of the Canopy. It should save 7 or 8 seconds.

I'll mess around with moon jump in the room with the fire.

Unreal704

Edit history:

Unreal704: 2014-03-27 12:05:10 am

Unreal704: 2014-03-27 12:04:50 am

Unreal704: 2014-03-26 11:22:47 pm

Unreal704: 2014-03-26 10:28:19 pm

Unreal704: 2014-03-26 10:27:48 pm

Unreal704: 2014-03-26 10:26:47 pm

Unreal704: 2014-03-26 10:26:15 pm

Unreal704: 2014-03-26 04:09:24 pm

2014-03-26 03:35:15 pm

Also known as Bottles/Sydynski

Wow, that's awesome! This may work in other levels as well, can't think of one off the top of my head right now.

edit: I think the trick is to find a way to unload the teensy actor. I tried whale bay and the fairy glade but you would have to load another section of the map to get the teensie to unload.

edit2: I just got a 2:24:16 pb single segment on the pc version. There were like 20 deaths along with other nasty mistakes. No joke about the deaths. >_> With this being my first completed rayman 2 speed run, I can tell it is going to be a long hard journey till I get an acceptable run that I can submit to the site. I plan to eventually run the n64 version once I find my capture device I misplaced and buy a new television.

edit3: Here are two tricks that are well known but just refining them a bit. The third trick skips the teensy dance at the end of the sanctuary of rock and lava. I don't even think this trick saves time but this shows another location where this can be done.

Tricks

Wow, that's awesome! This may work in other levels as well, can't think of one off the top of my head right now.

edit: I think the trick is to find a way to unload the teensy actor. I tried whale bay and the fairy glade but you would have to load another section of the map to get the teensie to unload.

edit2: I just got a 2:24:16 pb single segment on the pc version. There were like 20 deaths along with other nasty mistakes. No joke about the deaths.  >_> With this being my first completed rayman 2 speed run, I can tell it is going to be a long hard journey till I get an acceptable run that I can submit to the site. I plan to eventually run the n64 version once I find my capture device I misplaced and buy a new television.

edit3: Here are two tricks that are well known but just refining them a bit. The third trick skips the teensy dance at the end of the sanctuary of rock and lava. I don't even think this trick saves time but this shows another location where this can be done.

[url=https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fRxSDFF7UcA&feature=youtu.be]Tricks[/url]

luke100

2014-03-27 10:28:25 am

Gratz on your PB, Unreal Smiley

I'm surprised I didn't post anywhere about the second trick in this video, I tested it a while ago. And you can throw barrel right away once you're in the corridor, you don't have to approach the door. About the first one, quite curious. Do you get that consistently?

Unreal704

Edit history:

Unreal704: 2014-03-27 11:43:47 am

Unreal704: 2014-03-27 11:37:44 am

2014-03-27 11:36:43 am

Also known as Bottles/Sydynski

Thank you, and yes I usually never have any trouble hitting the switch. I just angle rayman towards the switch and he will hit it.

I also did some testing on death warping after hitting the teensy cage in the echoing caves to skip the dance vs. waiting for the teensy. I timed both ways at exactly 17 seconds each.

luke100

2014-03-27 12:28:37 pm

Not hitting, but not using first-person. If you're quick enough and don't let the pirate approach you, Rayman always does auto-target the switch, yes, but you must see it being hit. Does that happen consistently when you don't use first-person?