Rayman 2: The Great Escape

2013-12-27 04:41:18 pm

Well, not like I ever hid that or anything, but... does it really make the jumps easier? I did saw a difference in timing while practicing the Tomb of the Ancients skip, but that was it - a difference in timing, nothing universally easier or harder about it.

Squaky

Edit history:

Squaky: 2013-12-29 03:15:06 am

2013-12-29 03:13:00 am

Quote from luke100:

Well, not like I ever hid that or anything, but... does it really make the jumps easier? I did saw a difference in timing while practicing the Tomb of the Ancients skip, but that was it - a difference in timing, nothing universally easier or harder about it.

Well I wasn't playing it for that long, but I still felt a difference. I really don't think it would be that big of a deal because most console titles are 30 fps anyway

Manocheese

2014-01-12 02:12:45 pm

Yes, a cucco riding the ground.

I've been busy playing other games lately, but I finally got around to doing a full run. The time was 2:41:55. There were quite a few mistakes, so I'll definitely be trying to get below 2:40. I'll probably get under 2:38 or so, but I'll wait until I have a better run to analyze just how much time can be saved.

CloakedYoshi

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CloakedYoshi: 2014-01-15 01:07:28 pm

2014-01-15 11:11:23 am

Daily Speedrun Streamer

Wow that sounds awesome, I cant wait to see this run Smiley

I also have been running some other games, but still am considering practicing for WR as I think the time can go down to 2:13 for any%. I was going to ask you about the sanct. of Water and Ice clip, why didn't you use it? If you clip immediately its a 1 minute time save, on average, I save about 35-45 seconds with this clip.

luke100

2014-01-15 03:06:20 pm

A 2:41 100% run? Wow. I always thought it'd be at least 4 hours. Just... wow. I have no words. This is going to be amazing.

Manocheese

2014-02-02 02:33:01 am

Yes, a cucco riding the ground.

Oops, I didn't see that there were new posts here.

Quote from CloakedYoshi:

Wow that sounds awesome, I cant wait to see this run Smiley

I also have been running some other games, but still am considering practicing for WR as I think the time can go down to 2:13 for any%. I was going to ask you about the sanct. of Water and Ice clip, why didn't you use it? If you clip immediately its a 1 minute time save, on average, I save about 35-45 seconds with this clip.

When I was doing my recent any% run, I hadn't practiced the trick in a long time, so I figured I would probably lose time by trying it. If I were to spend more time on any%, I would probably include it.

In other news, I did a 2:39:32 today. There was one big ugly death and some smaller mistakes here and there, so I still think 2:38 is a good target for the time being.

luke100

2014-02-16 11:44:04 am

I got a PB on PC of 2:12:45 today, though I'm hardly satisfied with it. I made quite a lot of mistakes, and the run is still improvable by 1-2 minutes. I'm probably gonna do some more attempts soon.
http://www.twitch.tv/luke100ster/c/3732907

Unreal704

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2014-03-15 10:44:29 pm

Also known as Bottles/Sydynski

Here is a trick I found in the Menhir Hills. I think I had a video of it on my old channel I deleted. >_> It skips blasting open a door that should save 2 seconds. The second trick is an old trick I found in 2007, I'm just re-uploading it for reference. I was going to make videos of two tricks I found from 2007 but Manocheese has them in a video on his youtube account. I'm referring to Foutch Skip and the Sanctuary of Water and Ice orb skip. I was testing today if the Foutch skip can be done immediately as the boss fight begins instead of running around the lair. He stalls for a moment giving you some time to bounce up from the web at the beginning of the fight. I had no luck but I encourage others to test it if they like. I'm playing on emulator and I have noticed that certain tricks like foutch skip and the echoing caves door skip are harder than I remembered. I think its because I am on emulator. Looks like I'm going to have to hook up my n64 tomorrow. Smiley

Here is an old iron mountain trick. Not sure if cheese has it in one of his videos.

Three tricks in the cave of bad dreams. The last one was known for a while I'm just making a video of it.

Here is a trick I found in the Menhir Hills. I think I had a video of it on my old channel I deleted. >_> It skips blasting open a door that should save 2 seconds. The second trick is an old trick I found in 2007, I'm just re-uploading it for reference. I was going to make videos of two tricks I found from 2007 but Manocheese has them in a video on his youtube account. I'm referring to Foutch Skip and the Sanctuary of Water and Ice orb skip. I was testing today if the Foutch skip can be done immediately as the boss fight begins instead of running around the lair. He stalls for a moment giving you some time to bounce up from the web at the beginning of the fight. I had no luck but I encourage others to test it if they like. I'm playing on emulator and I have noticed that certain tricks like foutch skip and the echoing caves door skip are harder than I remembered. I think its because I am on emulator. Looks like I'm going to have to hook up my n64 tomorrow. :)

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GvX1WzINvYU&feature=youtu.be

Here is an old iron mountain trick. Not sure if cheese has it in one of his videos.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5jXFMbZaQYs&feature=youtu.be

Three tricks in the cave of bad dreams. The last one was known for a while I'm just making a video of it.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bE1CkmVWXtE&feature=youtu.be

CloakedYoshi

2014-03-16 07:10:40 pm

Daily Speedrun Streamer

Good stuff unreal, the fotch skip at the start sounds interesting, and making these videos is nice so people can find them, it was a pain for me to find out about alot of these tricks when i first came to the game.
Also the reason you were having trouble with the echoing caves skip and the sanct of W & I is because I discovered they depend on lag for the clips to work, when on N64 it is much easier *IF* you use and expansion pak and run the game in high res mode, thats what makes it lag, and that is how mano ran it back in te day Tongue

So now its better to run in low res to reduce lag, and during the game you can change to high res to cause lag for clips, and then change back to low res afterward to avoid the lag timeloss.

Unreal704

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2014-03-16 09:55:17 pm

Also known as Bottles/Sydynski

Thanks yoshi. I didn't notice a difference in lag on emulator whether I am on low or high res. The tricks are just as difficult. Sad

I'm sure it is because I am on the emulator and there is hardly any lag to begin with. On another note, does anyone have an updated any% route I could look at?

Here are some new tricks in the sanctuary of rock and lava.

Strange glitch that happened unintentionally . As you can see rayman was out of bounds in both clips for a split second. Maybe there are other spots where you could do this and possibly go out of bounds. It may be an emulator only glitch.

Manocheese

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Manocheese: 2014-03-17 12:30:30 am

2014-03-17 12:30:13 am

Yes, a cucco riding the ground.

Quote from Unreal704:

I can't believe I never noticed 2 and 3. I'll have to try those out. I've done 1 before, but IIRC, you have to wait a while for a barrel to roll down, making it faster to do that section normally. I might test it out again, though; perhaps the death warp is faster if it's done well.

Quote from Unreal704:

Strange glitch that happened unintentionally . As you can see rayman was out of bounds in both clips for a split second. Maybe there are other spots where you could do this and possibly go out of bounds. It may be an emulator only glitch.

I'm guessing that's an emulator glitch. I've never seen Rayman warp that far.

Unreal704

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2014-03-17 12:54:29 am

Also known as Bottles/Sydynski

The barrels are already rolling when you are floating in the water.

Here is a death warp in Tomb of the Ancients for runs that don't use the switch skip. I remember mentioning this in 2007 but I never had a video for it.

Edit: Here are some more tricks in the Sanctuary of Stone and Fire. One is a 100% trick and the other is a death warp that might save time if done quickly. The third is a soft lock while trying to attempt to skip the murphy text.

Also, I wrote up a lum route watching cheese's new any% run. The amounts in each level are the least amount of lums you should have theoretically. I tried to figure if there was a way to use the walk underwater trick in whale bay but I came up 12 short after tomb of the ancients. Twelve is the amount of lums you get if you take the route with the shell up to the cage with 10 lums. Maybe we can pick up an extra 2 lums somewhere before the tomb of ancients and pick up 10 lums in the first area of echoing caves using cheese's tricks. (tricks 11-13 in video below around 4:00)

Woods of Light: 5
Fairy Glade: 20
Marshes: 47 the least
Bayou: 49
Sanctuary Water/Ice: use orb skip, 41
Menhir Hills 1: 18
Cave of Bad Dreams: 44, plus 1 from marshes
Menhir Hills 2: 6
Canopy: 41, use globox text skip
Whale Bay: 45
Sanctuary Stone/Fire: 11
Echoing Caves: use barrel trick in second barrel section (too risky for single segment?), 24
Precipice: 49
Top of the World: 44
Sanctuary Rock/Lava: 48
Beneath Rock/Lava: 41
Tomb of the Ancients: 16, or whatever amount you need

The barrels are already rolling when you are floating in the water.

Here is a death warp in Tomb of the Ancients for runs that don't use the switch skip. I remember mentioning this in 2007 but I never had a video for it.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KJ6ugy7Pgyw

Edit: Here are some more tricks in the Sanctuary of Stone and Fire. One is a 100% trick and the other is a death warp that might save time if done quickly. The third is a soft lock while trying to attempt to skip the murphy text.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bsd9iktWf6o&feature=youtu.be

Also, I wrote up a lum route watching cheese's new any% run. The amounts in each level are the least amount of lums you should have theoretically. I tried to figure if there was a way to use the walk underwater trick in whale bay but I came up 12 short after tomb of the ancients. Twelve is the amount of lums you get if you take the route with the shell up to the cage with 10 lums. Maybe we can pick up an extra 2 lums somewhere before the tomb of ancients and pick up 10 lums in the first area of echoing caves using cheese's tricks. (tricks 11-13 in video below around 4:00)

Woods of Light: 5
Fairy Glade: 20
Marshes: 47 the least
Bayou: 49
Sanctuary Water/Ice: use orb skip, 41
Menhir Hills 1: 18
Cave of Bad Dreams: 44, plus 1 from marshes
Menhir Hills 2: 6
Canopy: 41, use globox text skip
Whale Bay: 45
Sanctuary Stone/Fire: 11
Echoing Caves: use barrel trick in second barrel section (too risky for single segment?), 24
Precipice: 49
Top of the World: 44
Sanctuary Rock/Lava: 48
Beneath Rock/Lava: 41
Tomb of the Ancients: 16, or whatever amount you need

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hTjnlxEkUEA

Manocheese

2014-03-18 10:35:00 pm

Yes, a cucco riding the ground.

Quote from Unreal704:

Edit: Here are some more tricks in the Sanctuary of Stone and Fire. One is a 100% trick and the other is a death warp that might save time if done quickly. The third is a soft lock while trying to attempt to skip the murphy text.

Nice stuff.

In the spinning platform room of Sanctuary of Rock and Lava (where you did #3 in this video), I noticed that if you turn left and shoot on the first triangular platform, you'll hit the cage. So, it seems the fastest way to do the room is as follows:

1. Shoot the cage as described.
2. Go through the lavafall. Get the lums on the wall.
3. Land on the platform and look at the cage to get the lums to float toward you.
4. Use Unreal's trick to reach the exit.

Unreal704

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2014-03-19 12:21:10 am

Also known as Bottles/Sydynski

Awesome, I never tried hitting the cage from there. I made a video for reference.

I played through an any% run today to check out how my lum route would turn out. I only needed 5 lums in the tomb of the ancients meaning I could have skipped ten lums somewhere before (ten lums in the two cages in beneath sanctuary of rock/lava right before Foutch) to save a bit of time and collect another ten in the tomb of ancients. I've figured that the lum route will vary through many different attempts. I'm going to try a run through tomorrow using the whale bay walk underwater trick and skip 12 lums in the bay. Its risky because if I come up to the tomb of the ancients needing more than 19 lums the run would be over. I would have to take a detour in the tomb and my time saved from the whale bay trick would be lost and then some.

I also think the flying barrel glitch in the echoing caves is too risky for a single segment. I'm talking about the second barrel section that leads to the levels end. I have a hard time collecting all the lums and end up spending more time trying to turn rayman around in the right direction. There's also the chance of flying straight into the acid water. Refer to trick one in cheese's video. I don't know how you made that look so easy. >_> Maybe I should practice it a bit more to include it in a run. Also, I'm going to try all these tricks on console. Done with the emulator. <_<

edit: Nice timesaver in Canopy. It's trickier than it looks. Why are my links not getting embed? >_<

Awesome, I never tried hitting the cage from there. I made a video for reference.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jVhn49bps1o

I played through an any% run today to check out how my lum route would turn out. I only needed 5 lums in the tomb of the ancients meaning I could have skipped ten lums somewhere before (ten lums in the two cages in beneath sanctuary of rock/lava right before Foutch) to save a bit of time  and collect another ten in the tomb of ancients. I've figured that the lum route will vary through many different attempts. I'm going to try a run through tomorrow using the whale bay walk underwater trick and skip 12 lums in the bay. Its risky because if I come up to the tomb of the ancients needing more than 19 lums the run would be over. I would have to take a detour in the tomb and my time saved from the whale bay trick would be lost and then some.

I also think the flying barrel glitch in the echoing caves is too risky for a single segment. I'm talking about the second barrel section that leads to the levels end. I have a hard time collecting all the lums and end up spending more time trying to turn rayman around in the right direction. There's also the chance of flying straight into the acid water. Refer to trick one in cheese's video. I don't know how you made that look so easy. >_> Maybe I should practice it a bit more to include it in a run. Also, I'm going to try all these tricks on console. Done with the emulator. <_<

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wC2j1l_UOkA

edit: Nice timesaver in Canopy. It's trickier than it looks. Why are my links not getting embed? >_<
 
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CfxAadDaky8&feature=youtu.be

CloakedYoshi

2014-03-19 02:50:54 am

Daily Speedrun Streamer

nice Sanctaury of Rock and Lava finds
on that video #7 you dont need to jump on the fence, you can just go to corner, shoot and then c-up to watch switch get hit, i usually walk towards the door a bit then right before the shot gets there c-up to make the switch hit.
and ive avoided adding in the second section echoing caves skip because of the lum problems, there is a small skip in the first section you can try to, you don't hit the switch you just fly into the door and clip through.

for the lum route i dont have time to go through much, but i do have a document, http://goo.gl/Ds4Dly
its not perfect and has wiggle room but there are a few things to think about from it one i noticed is you have one less in menhir hills 1... are you not taking into consideration the skip at the end where you don't blast the door open, and miss one lum?

Unreal704

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Unreal704: 2014-03-19 10:55:09 am

2014-03-19 10:54:15 am

Also known as Bottles/Sydynski

Yoshi, I'm not sure what video you are talking about. Is it…

It's faster to jump over the fence then go around the corner.

Also, yes I wrote the route for menhir hills from watching cheese's run and he gets 18 in hills 1. He did not skip the door on his first visit. After my play through last night I skipped the door in both menhir hill visits and that extra lum can be picked up somewhere else.

CloakedYoshi

2014-03-19 11:09:37 am

Daily Speedrun Streamer

I was talking about the switch in Whale bay Tongue

Unreal704

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2014-03-19 11:23:05 am

Also known as Bottles/Sydynski

Here is a new lum route I wrote that gets exactly 550. It may be a risky route to use in a single segment cause if you miss some lums somewhere along the way you would be screwed cause you can only get 16 in tomb of the ancients without a detour. This could be a good segmented route if it proves too risky.

Woods of Light: 5
Fairy Glade: 20
Marshes: 49
Bayou: 49
Sanctuary Water/Ice: use orb skip, 41
Menhir Hills 1: 17
Cave of Bad Dreams: 47, plus 1 from marshes
Menhir Hills 2: 6
Canopy: use globox text skip, 41
Whale Bay: use walk underwater trick, 33
Sanctuary Stone/Fire: 11
Echoing Caves: grab 5 lums in beginning, 32
Precipice: 49
Top of the World: 44
Sanctuary Rock/Lava: 48
Beneath Rock/Lava: 41
Tomb of the Ancients: 16, or whatever amount you need

I forgot how laggy the n64 was. Quite an adjustment coming from emulator. Marshes isn't so easy now. :/

Edit: Now that I think about I don't think the walk underwater glitch even saves that much time… Cause the idea is to skip blasting open the door that leads to the cage with ten lums. If we are going to skip it we could just death warp back to shore and swim to the sections exit. Has anyone timed swimming vs. running? My guess is 10 seconds faster to do the walk underwater trick.

Here is a new lum route I wrote that gets exactly 550. It may be a risky route to use in a single segment cause if you miss some lums somewhere along the way you would be screwed cause you can only get 16 in tomb of the ancients without a detour. This could be a good segmented route if it proves too risky.

Woods of Light: 5
Fairy Glade: 20
Marshes: 49 
Bayou: 49
Sanctuary Water/Ice: use orb skip, 41
Menhir Hills 1: 17
Cave of Bad Dreams: 47, plus 1 from marshes
Menhir Hills 2: 6
Canopy: use globox text skip, 41
Whale Bay: use walk underwater trick, 33
Sanctuary Stone/Fire: 11
Echoing Caves: grab 5 lums in beginning, 32
Precipice: 49
Top of the World: 44
Sanctuary Rock/Lava: 48
Beneath Rock/Lava: 41
Tomb of the Ancients: 16, or whatever amount you need

I forgot how laggy the n64 was. Quite an adjustment coming from emulator. Marshes isn't so easy now. :/

Edit: Now that I think about I don't think the walk underwater glitch even saves that much time… Cause the idea is to skip blasting open the door that leads to the cage with ten lums. If we are going to skip it we could just death warp back to shore and swim to the sections exit. Has anyone timed swimming vs. running? My guess is 10 seconds faster to do the walk underwater trick.

luke100

2014-03-19 02:32:23 pm

One of the videos showed the Sanctuary of Rock and Lava, where you bounce off a barrel to get a green lum to come to you, so that you deathwarp afterwards. I actually tried this a couple of times before and I believe it to be equally long to regular route if not slower, because of the time it takes you to fall down, then have the death animation, then respawn. I did notice, however, that the purple lum can be hit a little bit earlier than from the topmost platform, which I believe to be just a split second quicker (the angle at which you swing is a bit odd, though).

About the underwater glitch: I think you actually move quicker while swimming, I'd have to test that though. Also, I'm not sure if any% really benefits from skipping 10 lums, but I might be wrong.

blubbler

2014-03-19 03:20:54 pm

I really wonder about The Walk of Life. You'd lose like 2 minutes but not have to worry about lums anywhere. Probably not worth it still.

Unreal704

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2014-03-19 03:28:42 pm

Also known as Bottles/Sydynski

Quote from luke100:

About the underwater glitch: I think you actually move quicker while swimming, I'd have to test that though. Also, I'm not sure if any% really benefits from skipping 10 lums, but I might be wrong.

It would not skip ten lums, the lums would be picked up in other places. There is 5 in the beginning of echoing caves that you can get by jumping a few times and the lum will come to you. The other 5 can be picked up in various places. Depends on how your lum collection goes according to the route I posted above.

Also, I'm going to try out your suggestion in sanctuary of rock/lava and test to see if its faster.

Edit: Just tested it and it's about a second faster to use your method luke. What I did was bounce off the first barrel on the second platform and shot the purple lum. You then have a good angle to position your self right to the green lum and jump off on the first swing.

I also tested using a death warp in carmen's cage vs. the walk under water trick. It is 11 seconds faster to use the walk under water trick. You also save another 20 seconds by skipping blasting open the door with the shell and and grabbing the ten lums in the cage. All together a new whale bay route can save you 30 seconds. I should note that you lose 5 seconds by grabbing the big lum in the beginning of echoing caves, so around 25 seconds can be saved.

[quote="luke100"]
About the underwater glitch: I think you actually move quicker while swimming, I'd have to test that though. Also, I'm not sure if any% really benefits from skipping 10 lums, but I might be wrong.[/quote]
It would not skip ten lums, the lums would be picked up in other places. There is 5 in the beginning of echoing caves that you can get by jumping a few times and the lum will come to you. The other 5 can be picked up in various places. Depends on how your lum collection goes according to the route I posted above.

Also, I'm going to try out your suggestion in sanctuary of rock/lava and test to see if its faster.

Edit: Just tested it and it's about a second faster to use your method luke. What I did was bounce off the first barrel on the second platform and shot the purple lum. You then have a good angle to position your self right to the green lum and jump off on the first swing.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9AgqD32A9w4

I also tested using a death warp in carmen's cage vs. the walk under water trick. It is 11 seconds faster to use the walk under water trick. You also save another 20 seconds by skipping blasting open the door with the shell and and grabbing the ten lums in the cage. All together a new whale bay route can save you 30 seconds. I should note that you lose 5 seconds by grabbing the big lum in the beginning of echoing caves, so around 25 seconds can be saved.

luke100

2014-03-20 10:46:12 am

If you don't pick up 10 lums, then technically you do skip them. Of course, you have to make up for them, but still. 30 seconds is a considerable amount though. I won't be able to make up for the lums on Echoing Caves since I play on PC, but that does make me wonder about changing my route a bit.

Unreal704

2014-03-20 01:53:21 pm

Also known as Bottles/Sydynski

I watched your run and checked your lum counts and you can probably use the walk underwater trick as well. You have 311 lums at the sanctuary of stone and fire. If you cut out the twelve in whale bay to use the trick you will be one lum short to enter the sanctuary. You could pick up a few extra lums in the first area of the canopy off of the webs.

Manocheese

2014-03-20 02:43:46 pm

Yes, a cucco riding the ground.

There are 2 lums in a cage in the last room of Menhir Hills 2 that are probably pretty good for any%. Since you have to wait for the walking shell anyway, the lums only take about a second to get. I made a video of the strategy:

I also included a strategy in Menhir Hills 2 that I've been using for 100%.

Unreal704

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2014-03-20 03:27:27 pm

Also known as Bottles/Sydynski

Nice strategy cheese. We could skip 2 lums on the webs in canopy to save a couple seconds. I should mention that the switch in strategy number two can be hit if you spam shoot before you drop down. It's not guarantee but I have hit it a couple times saving a second.

Edit: Here are some menhir hill strats of my own. I'm not sure if you use the first strategy already in your 100% runs cheese, but the trick is to move a bit to the right on the second mushroom so the shell doesn't run into the tree and kill itself. You also need to use your propellor and cancel it to get to the second mushroom quicker. I think it may be a bit too risky though cause the shell doesn't always cooperate. >_> The second is how I execute the purple lum room. To hit the switch early you want to aim more to the right.

Also one small note, in the top of the world, you do not need to walk up to the teensie and activate the cutscene for the exit warp to activate. As soon as you break the door death warp.

Edit2: Has any of the pc players gotten the echoing caves skip to work? I downloaded the gog version and this is the only trick I cannot get to work. Too bad there is not enough lag. and for some reason, I can't change my resolution to high. It stays on medium no matter what. >_<

Nice strategy cheese. We could skip 2 lums on the webs in canopy to save a couple seconds. I should mention that the switch in strategy number two can be hit if you spam shoot before you drop down. It's not guarantee but I have hit it a couple times saving a second.

Edit: Here are some menhir hill strats of my own. I'm not sure if you use the first strategy already in your 100% runs cheese, but the trick is to move a bit to the right on the second mushroom so the shell doesn't run into the tree and kill itself. You also need to use your propellor and cancel it to get to the second mushroom quicker. I think it may be a bit too risky though cause the shell doesn't always cooperate. >_> The second is how I execute the purple lum room. To hit the switch early you want to aim more to the right.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yujE1Rhud9o

Also one small note, in the top of the world, you do not need to walk up to the teensie and activate the cutscene for the exit warp to activate. As soon as you break the door death warp.

Edit2: Has any of the pc players gotten the echoing caves skip to work? I downloaded the gog version and this is the only trick I cannot get to work. Too bad there is not enough lag. and for some reason, I can't change my resolution to high. It stays on medium no matter what. >_<