Trust the pigeons. Or ELSE!
So how's the run been coming along?
If nothing happens I might post a bounty for it. It's not that hard, hell I would run it but I need a DVR.
SDA Forum
It's-a me, Stalin!
I found a decent shortening today in this game while I was playing at quark's HQ on the first R+C. At the very start of the course, to skip the bomb throwy things, swingshot to the second swngshotty thing and instead of swinging forward, swing from left to right until you feel you have enough propulsion. Once you have enough, swing right and start gliding, you should land by the first set of boxes after the bomb throwy things. That shaves off a minute or two, and saves some nanotech. Also, when you come to one of those bullet firing things after a bridge, instead of weaving around all of the barbed wire and dodging, go to the far right. Jump from there to the explody boxes right next to you. Do this a second time on the same side and you should now be next to the bullet firy thing! Again, that shaves off a few minutes and nanotech.
Long live SF64!
Ok, so I played through the whole game again in the past week or two for the first time in 4 years with a time of about 12 hours, then today I managed it in about 6 hours, just seeing if I could do it in a single day. I think that for a run of this to ever get made we need to start planning the run out as a group. Get a route down (already basically done right?), discuss bolt requirements, which weapons to use/buy, and then document which shortcuts we think should be in the run, or risky ones that could go in optionally. Perhaps if we're able to come up with the route and the general plan of attack then all we'll need is a runner, which will likely arise from whoever is planning, however if everyone is busy now, the plan will be available whenever a runner is ready to take it on (which hopefully won't take as long as OoT).
I've tried coming up with some tricky shortcutty stuff myself, but I think most of what I've found has already been found and mentioned.
Now I'll reply to some of the things that have been mentioned....
By chance I ended up doing the other part of the level first, going to Metropolis and getting the helipack and swingshot then realizing I needed to go back to the plumber. When I did the plumber portion I found it much easier thanks to having the Helipack already. If the ship-flying scenes are part of the time, then there's no way this is faster, but if they aren't part of the time, there's a slight chance Helipack > plumber could save time, but unlikely.
So, it'd be good to have prior bolt checkpoints to help keep track of where we're at on bolts for each level.
Ok, I definitely found a shortcut here and I think it's a step beyond what's mentioned above. There are two doors that must be destroyed by turrets. I skip the first door by long jumping off the landing platform and making two bounces off the lava to the land just beyond the first door. I quickly grab the nanotech and am confronted by 4 proximity bombs (?) which I use the bomb glove on for guaranteed results. (It's possible to just ignore them.) It's critical they don't hurt me because then I immediately long jump into the lava for two more lava jumps up to the second turret. When destroying the second door I also use the turret to take out about 4 proximity mines near the door because they can follow you up the lift, which is not cool since you only have 1 nanotech left. It looks cool and saves maybe a minute plus having to deal with a bunch of enemies.
Ok, so I'm not alone in finding that shortcut (I think). I'm guessing this is the path to the right where there's the vent with 3 flames coming out and you can get up on top of the vent and swingshot over to skip about 2 minutes of the level. I have also found that whether or not you fall through the vent is very random. I worked on that for quite a while and couldn't get a 100% working method.
At first I thought you meant for the visibomb, but I guess you mean the devastator. I haven't been playing with bare minimal bolts so I always already had the devastator, but it's good to note that that is the first place it's absolutely needed.
Huh, I didn't think about buying the Pyrocitor late just for the test bots. I was just using bombs and wrench, but Pyrocitor would be a lot faster. I had wanted the Pyrocitor for Pokitaru, but I had somewhat accidentally gotten the suck cannon and it became my little enemy cleanup weapon. Is the suck cannon needed for the final bossfight? If not, then I'd like to know how to best fight the fish on Pokitaru without the Pyrocitor or the suck cannon.
For a loss of about 5-10 seconds you can often hide from the security system in one of the little rooms that the security bots come out of if you can make it into hiding alive. I've found several ways to avoid dying there and back in the Robot base. It'd be good to have options if an accident does occur. If only 1 or 2 of those occured in a run it'd still be great and possibly prevent a reset.
So, what pattern of weapon use do folks use on Drek? I've been having trouble with him actually. Since you mention needing the bots and mines, I'm guessing you're using the suck cannon? That would make sense since there doesn't seem to be any ammo to be found. Do you ever get ammo refils on the second rock platform? I've found that there are never ammo boxes when I'm out of blaster and devastators unless I start emptying my pyrocitor or my bombs too. This makes me think that ammo handouts are given when you are below a certain ammo status. Of course gathering ammo at all is slow, and I don't know if extra rounds of rockets and blaster would speed things up in the final portion or if the suck cannon is the way to go there.
Ok, so we also then need to know how long it takes to get the PDA and then how much faster that makes the boss fight when compared to using the suck cannon, AND include the bolt costs of PDA ammo (10200) in that scenario. Returning to the game I've yet to acquire the PDA, so I don't know how to approach that alternative yet.
Oh yeah - I checked this out and found that it works! Bolts stream at you at a near-constant rate of roughly 100 bolts per 10 seconds. This would undoubtedly be about the most boring part of any run, and it would take 1:40 for just a thousand bolts, or 3:20 for 2000 bolts. Oh and don't forget, you first have to earn back the cost of the bouncer! I can't remember how much that is, but even if it was $1000 that's 1:40 gone just to make up for getting the bouncer, which is probably useless everywhere else in the run. If we figure out the other bolt streaming locations (by reading GameFAQs guides), maybe one of them will work well as a late game backup plan for extra bolts to afford something.
Sorry if this post has lacked focus. I'm just trying to get into the game and work on the route. I think everyone has some different ideas, especially about supplimentary weapons and the final boss fight.
I've tried coming up with some tricky shortcutty stuff myself, but I think most of what I've found has already been found and mentioned.
Now I'll reply to some of the things that have been mentioned....
Quote:
Novalis: From the start I go to the path to the plumber.
By chance I ended up doing the other part of the level first, going to Metropolis and getting the helipack and swingshot then realizing I needed to go back to the plumber. When I did the plumber portion I found it much easier thanks to having the Helipack already. If the ship-flying scenes are part of the time, then there's no way this is faster, but if they aren't part of the time, there's a slight chance Helipack > plumber could save time, but unlikely.
Quote:
Rilgar: I have to make sure I have 4,000 bolts by the time I reach the bouncer or I have to reset.
So, it'd be good to have prior bolt checkpoints to help keep track of where we're at on bolts for each level.
Quote:
Gaspar [aka lava planet]: I'll need to have at least two nanotech if I am to jump into the lava and boost myself up to the second turret.
Ok, I definitely found a shortcut here and I think it's a step beyond what's mentioned above. There are two doors that must be destroyed by turrets. I skip the first door by long jumping off the landing platform and making two bounces off the lava to the land just beyond the first door. I quickly grab the nanotech and am confronted by 4 proximity bombs (?) which I use the bomb glove on for guaranteed results. (It's possible to just ignore them.) It's critical they don't hurt me because then I immediately long jump into the lava for two more lava jumps up to the second turret. When destroying the second door I also use the turret to take out about 4 proximity mines near the door because they can follow you up the lift, which is not cool since you only have 1 nanotech left. It looks cool and saves maybe a minute plus having to deal with a bunch of enemies.
Quote:
Orxon (Ratchet): Sometimes when I attempt to stand on top of the Magnestrip I fall through and die. If this happens more than twice I reset.
Ok, so I'm not alone in finding that shortcut (I think). I'm guessing this is the path to the right where there's the vent with 3 flames coming out and you can get up on top of the vent and swingshot over to skip about 2 minutes of the level. I have also found that whether or not you fall through the vent is very random. I worked on that for quite a while and couldn't get a 100% working method.
Quote:
Gemlik Base: I need 10,000 bolts by the time I reach the second vendor so I can destroy the fourth tower. This usually isn't a problem for me anymore.
At first I thought you meant for the visibomb, but I guess you mean the devastator. I haven't been playing with bare minimal bolts so I always already had the devastator, but it's good to note that that is the first place it's absolutely needed.
Quote:
Kalebo III: This planet and Veldin are the slowest points of my runs. Also from this point on I sometimes have trouble staying alive. I need 2,500 bolts for the Pyrocitor (plus 120 for ammo) which helps destroy the test bots quickly. Also, while not a big problem, I must take care not to make a mistake during the Hoverboard race.
Huh, I didn't think about buying the Pyrocitor late just for the test bots. I was just using bombs and wrench, but Pyrocitor would be a lot faster. I had wanted the Pyrocitor for Pokitaru, but I had somewhat accidentally gotten the suck cannon and it became my little enemy cleanup weapon. Is the suck cannon needed for the final bossfight? If not, then I'd like to know how to best fight the fish on Pokitaru without the Pyrocitor or the suck cannon.
Quote:
Drek's Fleet: Not that big of a problem anymore, but the guards still sometimes discover me and hit the alarm button before I destroy them.
For a loss of about 5-10 seconds you can often hide from the security system in one of the little rooms that the security bots come out of if you can make it into hiding alive. I've found several ways to avoid dying there and back in the Robot base. It'd be good to have options if an accident does occur. If only 1 or 2 of those occured in a run it'd still be great and possibly prevent a reset.
Quote:
Veldin: I use a very specific pattern for Veldin which gets me through alive about 75% of the time (I really should practice this level more...). The fight against Drek is somewhat luck-based; I need him to shoot out mines/send out bots to quickly eradicate him. 9-10 minutes would be ideal for the final fight; longer than 12 would be bad.
So, what pattern of weapon use do folks use on Drek? I've been having trouble with him actually. Since you mention needing the bots and mines, I'm guessing you're using the suck cannon? That would make sense since there doesn't seem to be any ammo to be found. Do you ever get ammo refils on the second rock platform? I've found that there are never ammo boxes when I'm out of blaster and devastators unless I start emptying my pyrocitor or my bombs too. This makes me think that ammo handouts are given when you are below a certain ammo status. Of course gathering ammo at all is slow, and I don't know if extra rounds of rockets and blaster would speed things up in the final portion or if the suck cannon is the way to go there.
Quote:
It takes 17 Devestator Missles to take out a section of Drekk's health. Otherwise, you're gonna be using the suck cannon which quite frankly sucks in this fight... The Gadgetron P.D.A. is going to be required, unless I manage to work for a Telsa Claw, though I don't know what kind of damage that does to the boss.
Ok, so we also then need to know how long it takes to get the PDA and then how much faster that makes the boss fight when compared to using the suck cannon, AND include the bolt costs of PDA ammo (10200) in that scenario. Returning to the game I've yet to acquire the PDA, so I don't know how to approach that alternative yet.
Quote:
the only thing required to do this is the Taunter "weapon". in Blackwater City there is a spot where you go down a pipe, hit a switch, and then the water level starts to rise. get on the small platform, but instead of hitting the switch turn around and aim the taunter back up the pipe you just came from. invisible boxes will start breaking and you'll get a steady stream of bolts for holding down the fire button (not sure the rate since like i said i haven't played the game in a while).
Oh yeah - I checked this out and found that it works! Bolts stream at you at a near-constant rate of roughly 100 bolts per 10 seconds. This would undoubtedly be about the most boring part of any run, and it would take 1:40 for just a thousand bolts, or 3:20 for 2000 bolts. Oh and don't forget, you first have to earn back the cost of the bouncer! I can't remember how much that is, but even if it was $1000 that's 1:40 gone just to make up for getting the bouncer, which is probably useless everywhere else in the run. If we figure out the other bolt streaming locations (by reading GameFAQs guides), maybe one of them will work well as a late game backup plan for extra bolts to afford something.
Sorry if this post has lacked focus. I'm just trying to get into the game and work on the route. I think everyone has some different ideas, especially about supplimentary weapons and the final boss fight.
Long live SF64!
Ok, sorry for the double post, but I have played through the game again and I took fairly detailed notes on everything but the final level including optional choices which may be made. The route and notes are all laid out in a Rich Text File (.rtf) since it's a bit long to post here just yet.
My Ratchet & Clank Speedrun Notes (already see mistakes... v2 coming soon)
This should open in Wordpad, Word, or any text editor a step above notepad. It could be a text file easily, but I figure RTF leaves room for formatting later. Please look through and see what various options I came up with. Any second opinions would be great.
On a side note, I've found the info at GameFAQs to be very helpful. There is a Trespasser FAQ with solutions to all the Invinso-locks, though I plan to check them to see if they are the fastest method. Obviously when the guide says to turn right any more than 6 times, you can turn left "12 - n" times, but there may also exist multiple solutions for some of the simpler puzzles, so the fastest one needs to be documented.
There's also a map/flow chart at GameFAQs showing each level, the tasks accomplished, items attained and infobots attained and which items are required to get other items... it's an interesting diagram - certainly helpful in trying to remember which planet things are on, especially for those of us who haven't played the game in forever.
My Ratchet & Clank Speedrun Notes (already see mistakes... v2 coming soon)
This should open in Wordpad, Word, or any text editor a step above notepad. It could be a text file easily, but I figure RTF leaves room for formatting later. Please look through and see what various options I came up with. Any second opinions would be great.
On a side note, I've found the info at GameFAQs to be very helpful. There is a Trespasser FAQ with solutions to all the Invinso-locks, though I plan to check them to see if they are the fastest method. Obviously when the guide says to turn right any more than 6 times, you can turn left "12 - n" times, but there may also exist multiple solutions for some of the simpler puzzles, so the fastest one needs to be documented.
There's also a map/flow chart at GameFAQs showing each level, the tasks accomplished, items attained and infobots attained and which items are required to get other items... it's an interesting diagram - certainly helpful in trying to remember which planet things are on, especially for those of us who haven't played the game in forever.
Long live SF64!
Quote:
In the meantime check this funny but pretty much useless glitch
Cool glitch... similar to the glitches using the hologuise at the racetracks to walk on foot on the tracks for bolt collecting (taunter + regenerating crates = LOTS of bolts). That reminds me... there's a glitch FAQ at GameFAQs and it mentions a lot of the polygon seam and swimming in midair kind of stuff that was found for Ocarina of Time or Mario 64. I read through the whole thing looking for something useful, but it seems most of the glitches people found just get you into secret under-the-level pools and whatnot. It was in that guide that I found out that 2 forcefields in Hoven let you walk right through! I bet this game could have a torn apart glitch run if we had the time... too bad each level is it's own planet... no major sequence breaks because of that...
Long live SF64!
Do the megaturret glitches only let you get through forcefields? Do they ever allow passage through the thicker doors or anything other than forcefields?
I'm trying to think what could be skipped with the ability to go through forcefields, besides just hitting various buttons and whatnot. ....
On Kalebo III, the Gadgetron HQ, forcefields are used to join portions of the level at a central location ... so the whole level can be skipped ...
On Rilgar, Blackwater City, there's a forcefield separating the hoverboard race from Quark's trailer, so half that level could be skipped.
On the early spacestation, the part just before the boss is a ring of forcefields... there is no ground beneath them however...
There are random forcefields on Orxon... Ratchet might could go through a metal grate to get to where the infobot is read, though for the bot to be there you must chase him across the level...
In Oltanis Orbit you could skip taking out the forcefield towers
On Veldon and elsewhere trespasser puzzles may be skipped.
Of course, this is just idle speculation if the decoy glove doesn't actually allow glitching... yeah, I'll go mess around with it...
EDIT
I did it!!!
I made it through the forcefield in Kalebo III!
It took 4 decoy gloves before it started shaking violently and then I popped right through!
Now it's a scavenger hunt to see how many places this can be used to shorten the game... the decoy glove is first acquired on Pokitaru, so it's use is basically limited to levels after you can get to Pokitaru. I doubt it'd be worth backtracking just to use the decoys, but it might be... for the Rilgar hoverboard races for example. Going through walls would be even better, though I'm still not sure how many major sequence breaks could be done. Wow, there's lots to try!
Edit2:
Got through a thick wall with no ground on the other side on Aridia... went from inside the big building out to the large secret part in the center of the map... This saves time on a gold bolt and the Sonic Summoner - neither of which matter for an any% run, but it's a good proof of concept that getting through a "thick" wall to a lower surface can be done. This might mean it's possible to glitch into a water tank as well which would be cool.
Edit3:
On Rilgar, I've managed to glitch through several places to find out of bounds bodies of water and swim around outside the level, etc. When you re-enter a portion of the level from an out of bounds area you become stuck in the level again, though it's possible to glitch the view so that the water is clear instead of blue.
I'm trying to think what could be skipped with the ability to go through forcefields, besides just hitting various buttons and whatnot. ....
On Kalebo III, the Gadgetron HQ, forcefields are used to join portions of the level at a central location ... so the whole level can be skipped ...
On Rilgar, Blackwater City, there's a forcefield separating the hoverboard race from Quark's trailer, so half that level could be skipped.
On the early spacestation, the part just before the boss is a ring of forcefields... there is no ground beneath them however...
There are random forcefields on Orxon... Ratchet might could go through a metal grate to get to where the infobot is read, though for the bot to be there you must chase him across the level...
In Oltanis Orbit you could skip taking out the forcefield towers
On Veldon and elsewhere trespasser puzzles may be skipped.
Of course, this is just idle speculation if the decoy glove doesn't actually allow glitching... yeah, I'll go mess around with it...
EDIT
I did it!!!
I made it through the forcefield in Kalebo III!
It took 4 decoy gloves before it started shaking violently and then I popped right through!
Now it's a scavenger hunt to see how many places this can be used to shorten the game... the decoy glove is first acquired on Pokitaru, so it's use is basically limited to levels after you can get to Pokitaru. I doubt it'd be worth backtracking just to use the decoys, but it might be... for the Rilgar hoverboard races for example. Going through walls would be even better, though I'm still not sure how many major sequence breaks could be done. Wow, there's lots to try!
Edit2:
Got through a thick wall with no ground on the other side on Aridia... went from inside the big building out to the large secret part in the center of the map... This saves time on a gold bolt and the Sonic Summoner - neither of which matter for an any% run, but it's a good proof of concept that getting through a "thick" wall to a lower surface can be done. This might mean it's possible to glitch into a water tank as well which would be cool.
Edit3:
On Rilgar, I've managed to glitch through several places to find out of bounds bodies of water and swim around outside the level, etc. When you re-enter a portion of the level from an out of bounds area you become stuck in the level again, though it's possible to glitch the view so that the water is clear instead of blue.
Long live SF64!
Yeah - awesome thinking on your part - I hadn't touched the decoy glove in 4 years until you mentioned that... I should report this on GameFAQs...
Anyways, more stuff...
On Hoven on the path towards the missile carrier I found a shortcut over to the hydropack upgrade - you simply glitch out of the cave nearest the hydropack part of the map and glide over until you pop into one of the rooms! Very nifty since this skips about 3 minutes of hydro-displacer stuff that would be required to get the hydropack - Again this doesn't help any%, but is a nice useful break regardless - may make the hydropack worthwhile if there are many swimming parts after this (...not really...).
Anyways, more stuff...
On Hoven on the path towards the missile carrier I found a shortcut over to the hydropack upgrade - you simply glitch out of the cave nearest the hydropack part of the map and glide over until you pop into one of the rooms! Very nifty since this skips about 3 minutes of hydro-displacer stuff that would be required to get the hydropack - Again this doesn't help any%, but is a nice useful break regardless - may make the hydropack worthwhile if there are many swimming parts after this (...not really...).
If we are going for the persuader the hydro pack would be useful and so would this glitch:
actually I have no idea if it would be useful timewise and I haven't messed around with it, since I don't have a copy but it could lead to some shortcuts in both gettin the persuader and the main level of pokitaru.
actually I have no idea if it would be useful timewise and I haven't messed around with it, since I don't have a copy but it could lead to some shortcuts in both gettin the persuader and the main level of pokitaru.
Long live SF64!
Sweet!
It seems there is basically a hole in the invisible ground near the end of the map that you can pass though.... took me a while to find it. Once through you can swim under the level, or better yet get to the persuader part like the video shows...I luckily had a file that had the raritanium but not the persuader... so you just follow the map towards the inventor and since I had already talked to him once the "Press ^ to trade Raritanium for Persuader" dialog came up while in the water outside the room! I just hit triangle and instantly the cutscene rolled where you get the persuader!
I went back and tried glitching through into the room... I went moothly through the walls and I expected to immediately stop swimming, but the whole place was filled with water! The water didn't go away until I went over the body of water in an adjacent room - the room immediately switched to where the surface of the water was at the top of that pool instead of way above the room.
I don't know how they programmed water in this game, but it sure is odd at times. The water must not exist at certain locations, but below a certain height, and the height variable simply doesn't update properly when you travel unexpectedly between locations or something. Who knows.
I do think the swimming method will be much faster than going through the persuader portion, especially since it requires using the hydro displacer multiple times. Now if only there were a way to get the raritanium on Hoven easily by floating over to it or something then that'd be a great series of tricks making the persuader a much faster and cooler prospect.
It seems there is basically a hole in the invisible ground near the end of the map that you can pass though.... took me a while to find it. Once through you can swim under the level, or better yet get to the persuader part like the video shows...I luckily had a file that had the raritanium but not the persuader... so you just follow the map towards the inventor and since I had already talked to him once the "Press ^ to trade Raritanium for Persuader" dialog came up while in the water outside the room! I just hit triangle and instantly the cutscene rolled where you get the persuader!
I went back and tried glitching through into the room... I went moothly through the walls and I expected to immediately stop swimming, but the whole place was filled with water! The water didn't go away until I went over the body of water in an adjacent room - the room immediately switched to where the surface of the water was at the top of that pool instead of way above the room.
I don't know how they programmed water in this game, but it sure is odd at times. The water must not exist at certain locations, but below a certain height, and the height variable simply doesn't update properly when you travel unexpectedly between locations or something. Who knows.
I do think the swimming method will be much faster than going through the persuader portion, especially since it requires using the hydro displacer multiple times. Now if only there were a way to get the raritanium on Hoven easily by floating over to it or something then that'd be a great series of tricks making the persuader a much faster and cooler prospect.
but all in all is the persuader even worth going out of our way and backtracking to get... Which weapons are on our list of "possible buys"?
so far i can think of people mentioning
-decoy glove : 7,500
-blaster : 2,500
-devastator : 10,000
-suck cannon : no cost but time cost
-pyrociter : 2,500
-tesla claw : 40,000
Other expenses
Gadgets
-grind boots : 2,000
-heli-pack : 1,000
-hydro-pack : 2,000
-swingshot : 1,000
-thruster pack : 2,000
Story
-Plumber : 500
-Bodyguard guy : 4,000
-Batalia infobot : 2,000
Also another thing to take into account is the codebot, If we get that and backtrack that gives a cool 15,000 bolts right there.
so far i can think of people mentioning
-decoy glove : 7,500
-blaster : 2,500
-devastator : 10,000
-suck cannon : no cost but time cost
-pyrociter : 2,500
-tesla claw : 40,000
Other expenses
Gadgets
-grind boots : 2,000
-heli-pack : 1,000
-hydro-pack : 2,000
-swingshot : 1,000
-thruster pack : 2,000
Story
-Plumber : 500
-Bodyguard guy : 4,000
-Batalia infobot : 2,000
Also another thing to take into account is the codebot, If we get that and backtrack that gives a cool 15,000 bolts right there.
Long live SF64!
Nice list ... I actually just started making a spreadsheet for keeping track of bolts and stuff... could come in handy for knowing how many we'd need to collect between places if we change when we want to buy a given weapon or to look at the persuader vs. no persuader.
I've barely started it, but it's "published" here and available for anyone to "view" here. Viewing means you sign in and can watch it being edited and use the built in discussion feature, where the published version is basically an image of the sheet. Viewing is a step shy of being a "collaborator" where you can edit it.
I'd like to give anyone at SDA permission to edit it if they want, and all you need is a google account. If you've ever signed up with google for anything then you have one. Just tell me the email address you use to sign into google and I can add you to the collaborator list.
So back to your wonderful list Tenfold.... we need to look at what the savings allowed by the persuader are and somehow figure how much time might be saved by saving that many bolts.
So realistically, if the persuader were used for the devastator, pyrociter, and decoy glove you'd save 6250. That sounds like a good bit, but like you said, we might could grab an extra 15000 using the codebot to afford the Drek PDA ammo and that might be a faster way to alleviate our bolt issues - though it would be later in the game when you normally are just stockpiling bolts anyway.
If we could take out a loan at the beginning the game it'd work a lot better!
Also don't forget about the 1000 bolt Gadgetron PDA purchased from "Steve." Without that, I'm not sure how the final boss is supposed to work. Is there anyway the Tesla Claw would be worth the price? It seems like we'd need everything at our disposal to even afford it, and then it would be replacing the PDA almost since there'd be less bolts left for ammo.
I've barely started it, but it's "published" here and available for anyone to "view" here. Viewing means you sign in and can watch it being edited and use the built in discussion feature, where the published version is basically an image of the sheet. Viewing is a step shy of being a "collaborator" where you can edit it.
I'd like to give anyone at SDA permission to edit it if they want, and all you need is a google account. If you've ever signed up with google for anything then you have one. Just tell me the email address you use to sign into google and I can add you to the collaborator list.
So back to your wonderful list Tenfold.... we need to look at what the savings allowed by the persuader are and somehow figure how much time might be saved by saving that many bolts.
| Weapon | Cost | Persuader Cost | Savings | |
| decoy glove | 7,500 | 5000 | 2500 | |
| blaster | 2,500 | 1500? | 1000 | <- will probably need before persuader |
| devastator | 10,000 | 7500? | 2500 | |
| suck cannon | time | time | 0 | |
| pyrociter | 2,500 | 1250 | 1250 | |
| tesla claw | 40,000 | 30,000 | 10000 | <- if we can ever afford this thing... |
So realistically, if the persuader were used for the devastator, pyrociter, and decoy glove you'd save 6250. That sounds like a good bit, but like you said, we might could grab an extra 15000 using the codebot to afford the Drek PDA ammo and that might be a faster way to alleviate our bolt issues - though it would be later in the game when you normally are just stockpiling bolts anyway.
If we could take out a loan at the beginning the game it'd work a lot better!
Also don't forget about the 1000 bolt Gadgetron PDA purchased from "Steve." Without that, I'm not sure how the final boss is supposed to work. Is there anyway the Tesla Claw would be worth the price? It seems like we'd need everything at our disposal to even afford it, and then it would be replacing the PDA almost since there'd be less bolts left for ammo.
Long live SF64!
This deserves it's own post...
I figured out how the game determines when to give you more ammo during the Drek Boss Fight!
In order to do this I beat Drek, but didn't step on the final switch that actually "ends" the game. I noticed that Ammo will still spawn around the circle in the center, presumably in the exact same manner that it does during the fight. Well, I got my laptop over by the couch and set to work documenting my weapon levels every time I got the ammo to appear. The ammo only appears when you aren't looking at it (same as regenerating boxes on hoverboard courses...), so I circled the arena gradually spending my various weapons and recording the results. As I recorded the results I had Excel telling me the ammo % of each individual weapon, the total ammo % as an average of the individual weapon percentages, the total ammo percent from all ammo divided by all ammo capacity, and the simple count of total ammo.
I found that the numbers could vary widely... sometimes the boxes appear when only ~80% of total ammo is spent, and sometimes I got down to less than 50% total ammo. I had a hunch that draining multiple weapons was part of the key, because with using Devastators and Blasters on Drek I had found several days ago that unloading some pyrocitor ammo to cause the ammo boxes to appear. And so it turned out in my tests that no two weapons at 0 ammo could ever coax the ammo to appear. So then I start gradually using up ammo from 3 weapons at a time, and that's where I found the key!
In the Drek Boss Fight a set of ammo appears every time you go below 80% of ammo capacity with 3 different weapons.
So if I have 16/20 Devastators, 160/200 Blaster, and 32/40 bombs, then I am at 80% with each of those 3 weapons. If I fire just 1 shot from 2 of the weapons, there will still be no new ammo, but once I fire the third weapon, then I immediately have 3 guns below 80% - instant ammo refill!
This can be used during the boss fight easily. Rather than unloading all ammo for a given weapon at once, switch weapons after 80% - so fire 5 devastators, and 41 blaster rounds, then either 49 Tesla rounds, 49 pyrocitor rounds, or 9 bombs in order to trigger the extra ammo - then switch back to the devastators and blaster to continue pounding Drek - since there's generally some downtime during the fight, keeping a 3rd weapon below 80% shouldn't be a problem - just fire off the pyrocitor when riding the rail, dodging attacks, or moving across the arena.
Since Devastators are likely the best ammo, you can predispose yourself towards getting devestator ammo by taking two weapons down to 75%, then fire off all devastator ammo (at Drek :P) before collecting more ammo. The ammo crates are more likely to give you something you aren't full of and you'll fill up on the other 2 weapons quickly giving you more devastator ammo than you'd get otherwise.
Of course the best way to collect ammo is by letting Drek break the boxes with the fire ring attack... I think that once the boxes break, more will spawn if you still meet the requirements, so if Drek fires off 4 of those fire bombs, wait until the 3rd or 4th one to go get the ammo and there will be 3 or 4 full sets of ammo waiting for you!
Maybe knowing these tactics will make the PDA, the Tesla Claw, and the bolts necessary for the PDA ammo all unnecessary freeing up the endgame requirements considerably. I know I had worlds of trouble with the boss at first, and now as long as I survive his big blue blob blast things it's become a lot easier.
I know figuring that out is nothing compared to some of the formulas in RPGs and stuff, but I'm very happy with this little discovery!
I figured out how the game determines when to give you more ammo during the Drek Boss Fight!
In order to do this I beat Drek, but didn't step on the final switch that actually "ends" the game. I noticed that Ammo will still spawn around the circle in the center, presumably in the exact same manner that it does during the fight. Well, I got my laptop over by the couch and set to work documenting my weapon levels every time I got the ammo to appear. The ammo only appears when you aren't looking at it (same as regenerating boxes on hoverboard courses...), so I circled the arena gradually spending my various weapons and recording the results. As I recorded the results I had Excel telling me the ammo % of each individual weapon, the total ammo % as an average of the individual weapon percentages, the total ammo percent from all ammo divided by all ammo capacity, and the simple count of total ammo.
I found that the numbers could vary widely... sometimes the boxes appear when only ~80% of total ammo is spent, and sometimes I got down to less than 50% total ammo. I had a hunch that draining multiple weapons was part of the key, because with using Devastators and Blasters on Drek I had found several days ago that unloading some pyrocitor ammo to cause the ammo boxes to appear. And so it turned out in my tests that no two weapons at 0 ammo could ever coax the ammo to appear. So then I start gradually using up ammo from 3 weapons at a time, and that's where I found the key!
In the Drek Boss Fight a set of ammo appears every time you go below 80% of ammo capacity with 3 different weapons.
So if I have 16/20 Devastators, 160/200 Blaster, and 32/40 bombs, then I am at 80% with each of those 3 weapons. If I fire just 1 shot from 2 of the weapons, there will still be no new ammo, but once I fire the third weapon, then I immediately have 3 guns below 80% - instant ammo refill!
This can be used during the boss fight easily. Rather than unloading all ammo for a given weapon at once, switch weapons after 80% - so fire 5 devastators, and 41 blaster rounds, then either 49 Tesla rounds, 49 pyrocitor rounds, or 9 bombs in order to trigger the extra ammo - then switch back to the devastators and blaster to continue pounding Drek - since there's generally some downtime during the fight, keeping a 3rd weapon below 80% shouldn't be a problem - just fire off the pyrocitor when riding the rail, dodging attacks, or moving across the arena.
Since Devastators are likely the best ammo, you can predispose yourself towards getting devestator ammo by taking two weapons down to 75%, then fire off all devastator ammo (at Drek :P) before collecting more ammo. The ammo crates are more likely to give you something you aren't full of and you'll fill up on the other 2 weapons quickly giving you more devastator ammo than you'd get otherwise.
Of course the best way to collect ammo is by letting Drek break the boxes with the fire ring attack... I think that once the boxes break, more will spawn if you still meet the requirements, so if Drek fires off 4 of those fire bombs, wait until the 3rd or 4th one to go get the ammo and there will be 3 or 4 full sets of ammo waiting for you!
Maybe knowing these tactics will make the PDA, the Tesla Claw, and the bolts necessary for the PDA ammo all unnecessary freeing up the endgame requirements considerably. I know I had worlds of trouble with the boss at first, and now as long as I survive his big blue blob blast things it's become a lot easier.
I know figuring that out is nothing compared to some of the formulas in RPGs and stuff, but I'm very happy with this little discovery!
Long live SF64!
The Ghost Ratchet Glitch
I hate to post like this, but I just found what has to be one of the neatest speedrun glitches possible. On Umbris where Quark's Training Course is there were already 2 shortcuts in the first 1/3 of the level, well at the part where the swingshot targets are, at the big bridge, near the big room with the gold bolt, there is an awesome glitch that can be very easily activated... All you do is jump off the bridge, but before dying, hit your swingshot towards the target above the bridge. You hit the mud, (which should kill you), then you successfuly swingshot through the bridge (which shouldn't be possible). So if you should have died, but you still seem to be alive, then what are you?
A ghost! You now get to go through any wall that you want to as long as you are jumping. Walls appear solid, but then you can jump right through them! And this is about the only level that seems practically designed to take advantage of this glitch! Half of the level is hitting switches to activate doors - why bother! Jump right through! Then you have a problem - you can't properly climb a ladder because you go through the wall while climbing - no problem, just do continuous high jumps and you'll fly up the wall faster than an elevator! Then you see see water and wonder if this is the fated end of your playtime... nope! This whole part has walkways that are connected underneath the obstructions - your invisible red carpet taking you past about 4 insta-drains and 20 angry fish. Take a jump through the wall at the final pool and you're confronted with more water and no walkway - who cares! The next room is immediately to your right, so stretch jump through the walls into it. Oh darn - this big room requires the water from the pool you skipped to fill it up to hit the switches to open the door... door? what door! Head to the locked exit and pass right through! Now you're on your way to see Quark and his furry boss... just jump through a wall anytime you're ready to float down into the boss chamber. The cutscene is skipped and the Boss meter appears as soon as you enter the chamber. Rather than actually fight the boss - go check out the closed door that normally opens to your next infobot... stretch jump through and you acquire the Infobot for Batalia without even seeing the cutscene!
Now comes the slightly annoying part of this glitch - you're stuck! The only way back to the ship now is to jump off the ledge to your death. You re-appear by the pools. Now you can back track to your ship using a series of shortcuts to get back to earlier areas faster. For the Swingshot targets to work in getting back to your ship you must high jump before swinging - otherwise you're long radius of swing from going the wrong way will land you back in the mud. Now after about 20 boundary violations and a death warp you're ready to go to Batalia without ever opening a door, watching a cutscene or fighting the boss!
If such glitching is allowed then Umbris is going to be one awesome planet to speedrun! This has to cut atleast 5-10 minutes - I'm not sure. I'll make a youtube video of it I suppose. Another good find for Ratchet & Clank 1!
I hate to post like this, but I just found what has to be one of the neatest speedrun glitches possible. On Umbris where Quark's Training Course is there were already 2 shortcuts in the first 1/3 of the level, well at the part where the swingshot targets are, at the big bridge, near the big room with the gold bolt, there is an awesome glitch that can be very easily activated... All you do is jump off the bridge, but before dying, hit your swingshot towards the target above the bridge. You hit the mud, (which should kill you), then you successfuly swingshot through the bridge (which shouldn't be possible). So if you should have died, but you still seem to be alive, then what are you?
A ghost! You now get to go through any wall that you want to as long as you are jumping. Walls appear solid, but then you can jump right through them! And this is about the only level that seems practically designed to take advantage of this glitch! Half of the level is hitting switches to activate doors - why bother! Jump right through! Then you have a problem - you can't properly climb a ladder because you go through the wall while climbing - no problem, just do continuous high jumps and you'll fly up the wall faster than an elevator! Then you see see water and wonder if this is the fated end of your playtime... nope! This whole part has walkways that are connected underneath the obstructions - your invisible red carpet taking you past about 4 insta-drains and 20 angry fish. Take a jump through the wall at the final pool and you're confronted with more water and no walkway - who cares! The next room is immediately to your right, so stretch jump through the walls into it. Oh darn - this big room requires the water from the pool you skipped to fill it up to hit the switches to open the door... door? what door! Head to the locked exit and pass right through! Now you're on your way to see Quark and his furry boss... just jump through a wall anytime you're ready to float down into the boss chamber. The cutscene is skipped and the Boss meter appears as soon as you enter the chamber. Rather than actually fight the boss - go check out the closed door that normally opens to your next infobot... stretch jump through and you acquire the Infobot for Batalia without even seeing the cutscene!
Now comes the slightly annoying part of this glitch - you're stuck! The only way back to the ship now is to jump off the ledge to your death. You re-appear by the pools. Now you can back track to your ship using a series of shortcuts to get back to earlier areas faster. For the Swingshot targets to work in getting back to your ship you must high jump before swinging - otherwise you're long radius of swing from going the wrong way will land you back in the mud. Now after about 20 boundary violations and a death warp you're ready to go to Batalia without ever opening a door, watching a cutscene or fighting the boss!
If such glitching is allowed then Umbris is going to be one awesome planet to speedrun! This has to cut atleast 5-10 minutes - I'm not sure. I'll make a youtube video of it I suppose. Another good find for Ratchet & Clank 1!
Long live SF64!
Ok, I've found a shortcut on Pokitaru over to the Rocket pack and fighter jet.... you uh, just swim over there and jump up onto some land behind the fighter bay. Before that though you get to finally buy the beloved Decoy Glove. It's rather expensive at 7500, plus you'll need 2000 bolts for the rocket pack which is a lot to ask at that point in the game... so then you use the decoy glove to get into the roboshack for the rocket pack - I was hoping this would automatically open the doors and maybe warp the island dude over there, but no such luck. Now you must use the remainder of your decoys to get out of the shack or else the only exit is to quit the game / reload the file. Having only 20 makes this tough, though I did manage to get into the shack with a single glove once - it's getting out that seems harder.
Now that you have the rocket pack early you can hit the switch to fly the jet and destroy the Blarg ships. Now surely when you've completed the mission you'll get the O2 mask right? Nope! Island dude is still on the other side of the map waiting for you! I then went through the motions with the island dude... after the second boat ride we arrived at the final piece of land. Since I had already wiped out that hole island for extra bolts, there was nothing for the island dude to wait for and rather than having to wait for him to run over to the fighter bay, the cutscene where the roboshack opens showed as soon as island dude got on the island - then immediately following that cutscene, the 02 mask cutscene finally showed.
I'm not sure if it is really of any advantage at all then to do the level out of order since it involves extra travel and you can't actually skip very much. I'll see if there's a way to go kill everything and then talk to island dude and get the cutscene to trigger sooner, but I have a feeling that he's programmed to do the boat rides no matter what and doesn't start waiting for the 02 mask part until after the boat rides, which are the main things worth skipping.
I was hoping for another awesome break, and there may still be a way - we'll see. Getting the rocket pack without talking to the island dude is a nifty accomplishment regardless, just not useful.
Edit:
Browsing youtube - found shortcut on Rilgar:
Skips the flooding portion with an out of bounds swimming glitch.
Now that you have the rocket pack early you can hit the switch to fly the jet and destroy the Blarg ships. Now surely when you've completed the mission you'll get the O2 mask right? Nope! Island dude is still on the other side of the map waiting for you! I then went through the motions with the island dude... after the second boat ride we arrived at the final piece of land. Since I had already wiped out that hole island for extra bolts, there was nothing for the island dude to wait for and rather than having to wait for him to run over to the fighter bay, the cutscene where the roboshack opens showed as soon as island dude got on the island - then immediately following that cutscene, the 02 mask cutscene finally showed.
I'm not sure if it is really of any advantage at all then to do the level out of order since it involves extra travel and you can't actually skip very much. I'll see if there's a way to go kill everything and then talk to island dude and get the cutscene to trigger sooner, but I have a feeling that he's programmed to do the boat rides no matter what and doesn't start waiting for the 02 mask part until after the boat rides, which are the main things worth skipping.
I was hoping for another awesome break, and there may still be a way - we'll see. Getting the rocket pack without talking to the island dude is a nifty accomplishment regardless, just not useful.
Edit:
Browsing youtube - found shortcut on Rilgar:
Skips the flooding portion with an out of bounds swimming glitch.
Wow...Nice find!, I wonder If that can be used on other planets with swingshots and eminent deaths below 
Anyways If that isn't allowed I found (not personally, I found this on youtube cus I dont have my game still) a glitch on umbris but its kinda hard to explain and I can't find the vid at the moment but it may help us get into the boss room early as well through a swiming in air glitch.
Long live SF64!
Quote:
Wow...Nice find!, I wonder If that can be used on other planets with swingshots and eminent deaths below Anyways If that isn't allowed I found (not personally, I found this on youtube cus I dont have my game still) a glitch on umbris but its kinda hard to explain and I can't find the vid at the moment but it may help us get into the boss room early as well through a swiming in air glitch.
I'm trying to get the swingshot glitch to work elsewhere. One such place is the Gemlich Base where the green acid raises and lowers - there is a large raising and lowering pool and a green swing shot target intended for backtracking if you mess up. I'm trying to attach to the swingshot target before hitting the acid (on the final hit - it's like lava - bounce, bounce, dead). I don't know if it's the nature of the acid or the fact that the swing shot isn't glitching through something or what, but it simply won't work... in fact, if the acid touches you while you are not in a "falling" mode it kills you instead of making you bounce. For example, if you stand still and let the acid rise to your level, or if you are just beginning the swingshot swing. Long story short - I can't seem to duplicate it yet.
I looked on youtube and I'm amazed at the number of glitches for all the R&C games. It's pretty difficult to sift through and try and find something of quality and not just "OMG, I got to a ledge that is INVISIBLE!" I did see a water glitch that might shortcut something on Rilgar (see edit of previous post), but I think that it wouldn't really work since first time through the water level is much lower.
On to some news:
Major Shortcut / Sequence Break in Oltanis Orbit: Gemlik Base [well, maybe - see edit]
Required: Decoy Glove
At the location of the second Gadgetron vendor, you are supposed to use Devastators to take out the forcefield tower and proceed. Rather than doing that, fill up on Decoy Gloves and note the circular structure that is just between your current location and the "?" on the map. Use the decoy glove to glitch through the wall. You should pass through and simply see yourself standing on a minuscule ledge on the other side. Now rocket jump up and boost towards the middle of the room and glide... you should notice a massage saying "Press [Triangle] To Fly the Fighter" or whatever... simply press triangle and you'll begin the boss fight with Captain Quark! It's that simple!This skips about half of the level including the big room with tons of enemies.
If you die in the fight with Quark you'll go back to the Gadgetron Vendor. If you go through the wall too quickly you'll just fall and die - though it's very quick to retry it and the vendor is right there for buying more decoys!
You can also use Decoys to get through to the room with the fourth forcefield tower from the ledge under the hole the lets you see the tower. This places you underneath the ledge on either side of that big bay. You can kill the fight that's sitting there with your blaster. I originally found this in an attempt to further postpone getting the devastator because of the high cost of the decoy glove, but it's greatly obsoleted by the above glitch which skips the rest of the level.
I tried to find other glitches on Gemlik Base and I found other places to go through walls and such but I keep falling and dying instead of finding decent ways to get to the rooms beyond. The very beginning of the level has adjoining rooms that should let you skip several rooms at a time, but I can't get from point A to point B once I'm through the wall. All of the Trespasser doors can be skipped, but there's no point since the trespasser puzzles are faster and don't cost decoy ammo.
I guess I'll settle for skipping half of the level for now. Surely there's more, but this is great as it is!
EDIT:
Psh - I was premmature - after defeating Quark it showed the cutscene where he spirals to the planet, but then the game sorta locked up... It goes back to the camera position you were at when you defeated Quark, and the camera can be moved with the right analog stick the same as if you were flying the ship, but you're not actually moving and their is no ship. The level is still active ... asteroids are moving and bumping into each other. When I press start the typical menu comes up saying:
"Quit?, [Triangle] Exit, [X Button] Continue"
Whether I press triangle or X it goes back to the same screen. So basically I'm stuck and now must reset my console. Great. I retried it and it did it again - attempted removing the disk and the memory card and stuff, but it always just returns to the same thing.
Now that I think about it, I'm pretty sure I know why it happens. when you press triangle the game leaves ratchet and changes control over to the ship, well, the actual Ratchet has fallen to his death because he was in the process of falling when he activated the ship, so after the space sequence is finished, the game is stuck because Ratchet fell to the bottom of the level and the game doesn't know how to handle that possibility.
I suppose maybe the other 4th forcefield skip mentioned above might be the better place to start and then go from there. There's bound to be other possible skips to be done in this level, though. These games could be torn apart so bad if there were enough people working on them. Too bad each level is a planet making it impossible to go between or skip entire levels. It's also too bad you can't get back to Veldon after you leave until the very end - there could be some rediculous way to glitch Veldon to get to Drek early, but I doubt any of the later elements of Veldon are present when you first play through it.