Pokemon Platinum + Diamond/Pearl Discussion v2.0

2009-08-15 04:19:28 am

DS Dictator

It sounds like an SS run because he didn't have the lucky egg and it's mostly accurate (if you want to continue a completed game) if you set the DS timer to 00:00. Meaning the run was at least over 4 hours long.

I wonder if Cynthia's E4 battle took a while, Spiritomb's Embargo prevents using Items (X-items especially). Making it a stall fest for Empoleon/Infernape to sweep. Spiritomb also knows Psychic so Infernape will have a harder time to surive the stall fest.

I tried testing NO$GBA yesterday it only lags in the overworld places (outside houses) but it doesn't lag inside basic building and more importantly Pkmn battles. Camstudio is the only one that is completely free and for some reason it doesn't always record, and when I stop recording it, it should have a save option (naming it and where to save it) but it doesn't always happen :(.

UltimateDarius

2009-08-18 12:55:47 pm

Back in the game!

I just wanted to say that I personally think that finding a lucky egg is what Easter would be like if Nazi Germany had anything to say about it. Minus the incinerators.

UltimateDarius

Edit history:

UltimateDarius: 2009-08-18 10:06:26 pm

2009-08-18 09:07:27 pm

Back in the game!

I just had a genius idea. Does anyone have a Lucky Egg I could borrow for testing for a few days? I don't care if it's sharked or whatever, but I don't own anything like that myself, and I've been Thieving wild Chanseys on route 209 for three days now.

EDIT: Rattlingjoint rulez!

neskamikaze

2009-08-19 11:50:34 am

I'm guessing Rattlingjoint gave you a Lucky Egg lol. If you need anything else for testing however, I have a Platinum on an R4 so I can get you pretty much anything you want/need.

Rattlingjoint

2009-08-19 11:57:29 am

No I just rule for no reason at all Grin

neskamikaze

2009-08-19 11:59:40 am

Quote from Rattlingjoint:

No I just rule for no reason at all Grin

Oh okay, I got it now. That makes much more sense.

TimeSpaceMage

Edit history:

TimeSpaceMage: 2009-08-20 12:50:43 pm

2009-08-20 12:35:23 pm

A hat riding a mage?!

Quote from Greenalink:

For the people who haven't noticed:

Pokémon D/P/Pt strategy wiki is up.

http://speeddemosarchive.com/kb/index.php/Pok%C3%A9mon_Diamond/Pearl/Platinum

Looks like an easy way to reference data. Please be sure to mention that Hidden Power is not feasibly obtainable in Platinum since it costs 6000 coins (120k pokeyen). Oh, and Platinum's Gfaqs Dowsing FAQ could help in finding helpful nearby items, like the RC at the end of Mt. Coronet's way to Rt. 216.

The bitter items could come in handy too, since they're really cheap. The only annoyance is that they're available before you have much money, and nobody likes backtracking in a run. Could stocking up early be worth a detour for a Stardust or two to help fund supplies?

UltimateDarius

2009-08-20 09:20:23 pm

Back in the game!

4th generation strategy Wiki updated: I discovered a new double battle strategy, please read the Wiki for details.

strager

2009-08-21 12:08:29 am

Quote from UltimateDarius:

4th generation strategy Wiki updated: I discovered a new double battle strategy, please read the Wiki for details.

Really nice find.

Greenalink

2009-08-21 05:19:06 am

DS Dictator

That's a cool idea. I remember in Platinum there were at least 1 battles that was from Team Galactic. There is one in Galactic HQ (after the 7th badge) but I'm unsure if it occurs in DP.

That place you can talk to one of them (and then the other) and do 2 single battles. That way is a bit safer but you lose a bit of time to see 2 Battle start sequences (The Pokéball animation and the opponent has lost text).

There is one in Eterna Forest but you'll be with an ally who has a Chansey and the opponets are Bug type (good for a Chimchar run).

TimeSpaceMage

2009-08-21 07:01:57 am

A hat riding a mage?!

I would sometimes solo for awhile in my single-segment attempts on Diamond. It was mostly so I could death-warp back to Jubilife after the first gym and skip talking to Barry, but I only pulled it off once since it requires winning the badge by the skin of your teeth. Then I'd stay solo to skip past the twins on the way to Floarama (until I realized you could run straight left from the bug trainer to avoid them), to get more EXP from the battles in Galactic Eterna building and not have to waste time killing my partner, and to skip the pair north of Solaceon without having to dismount and run through the grass.

Hmm, I wonder if it's worth the time? IIRC in Platinum version, everyone in Galactic Eterna is skippable except the boss.

UltimateDarius

2009-08-22 01:33:28 am

Back in the game!

Time to get the debate raging again. Segmented run strategy: Start with Turtwig, run with traded Abra (obviously evolved).

Trade can be made prior to first gym (battle style switch until evolution), or you can fight the gym with the Machop first. Not sure which is faster/better yet. Fight the two optional trainers in the gym, and the guy with rock type only in the mine while you're down there.

The Abra itself has a Quiet nature, but this only matters in two fights the entire game, both against the rival: Once against his Floatsel, and once against the other one it evolves into/from.

The IVs are as follows:

HP: 15
Attack: 15
Defense: 15
Special Attack: 25
Special Defense: 25
Speed: 20

You can obviously make use of teleport a bit before obtaining Fly.

Kadabra is able to OHKO nearly everything early-game, exceptions being there was one pokemon (I do forget which) which needed a critical Confusion (pre-Psybeam), and then there was a stunky (which happened right after I learned Miracle Eye, so not a major issue).
There was a Bronzor before shadow ball that needed a critical hit to OHKO, and the rest are contained in either the Commander Double battle with your ally, or in the Elite 4.

Control is established after beating the second gym for a little while. However, control is lost again right after obtaining lucky egg on route 209, and not regained until beating Crasher Wake at level 34, or 37, I forgot.

Control is then lost once more for part of the Byron battle.

The moveset I used was Grass Knot/Psychic/Shock Wave/Shadow Ball for most of the game. Shock Wave was especially useful in the fog. During the Elite 4, Shock Wave was replaced with Charge Beam for the OHKO + boosted special attack factor in lieu of X-specials. PP was really not an issue much at all: I only used a leppa berry, an ether, and an elixer, IIRC.

For the duration of the entire run, only one X item was needed (Commander fight with allied rival), and zero Rare Candies used. I also fought only the required fights, with the exception of the very first double battle in the game with the Grunts (before I discovered being able to skip them)

The "rival" fight right before challenging the Elite 4 was fairly easy. Charge Beam OHKO + special up against two of his Pokemon (he leads them in the right order too, which is great) and then Psychic will OHKO Snorlax.

Going into the Elite 4 with a level 76 Kadabra. Aaron's Drapion was mildly annoying, needing two charge beam power ups and a critcal hit. The rest of them are just laughable. Cynthia's Spiritomb even was really easy: Critical shadow ball does the trick. The final result was a level 83 Kadabra at the end of the Champion fight.

Time to get the debate raging again.  Segmented run strategy:  Start with Turtwig, run with traded Abra (obviously evolved).

Trade can be made prior to first gym (battle style switch until evolution), or you can fight the gym with the Machop first.  Not sure which is faster/better yet.  Fight the two optional trainers in the gym, and the guy with rock type only in the mine while you're down there.

The Abra itself has a Quiet nature, but this only matters in two fights the entire game, both against the rival:  Once against his Floatsel, and once against the other one it evolves into/from.

The IVs are as follows:

HP: 15
Attack: 15
Defense: 15
Special Attack: 25
Special Defense: 25
Speed: 20

You can obviously make use of teleport a bit before obtaining Fly.

Kadabra is able to OHKO nearly everything early-game, exceptions being there was one pokemon (I do forget which) which needed a critical Confusion (pre-Psybeam), and then there was a stunky (which happened right after I learned Miracle Eye, so not a major issue).
There was a Bronzor before shadow ball that needed a critical hit to OHKO, and the rest are contained in either the Commander Double battle with your ally, or in the Elite 4.

Control is established after beating the second gym for a little while.  However, control is lost again right after obtaining lucky egg on route 209, and not regained until beating Crasher Wake at level 34, or 37, I forgot.

Control is then lost once more for part of the Byron battle.

The moveset I used was Grass Knot/Psychic/Shock Wave/Shadow Ball for most of the game.  Shock Wave was especially useful in the fog.  During the Elite 4, Shock Wave was replaced with Charge Beam for the OHKO + boosted special attack factor in lieu of X-specials.  PP was really not an issue much at all:  I only used a leppa berry, an ether, and an elixer, IIRC.

For the duration of the entire run, only one X item was needed (Commander fight with allied rival), and zero Rare Candies used.  I also fought only the required fights, with the exception of the very first double battle in the game with the Grunts (before I discovered being able to skip them)

The "rival" fight right before challenging the Elite 4 was fairly easy.  Charge Beam OHKO + special up against two of his Pokemon (he leads them in the right order too, which is great) and then Psychic will OHKO Snorlax.

Going into the Elite 4 with a level 76 Kadabra.  Aaron's Drapion was mildly annoying, needing two charge beam power ups and a critcal hit.  The rest of them are just laughable.  Cynthia's Spiritomb even was really easy:  Critical shadow ball does the trick.  The final result was a level 83 Kadabra at the end of the Champion fight.

DoubleThink

2009-08-22 06:39:19 am

There's a word for that

Misbehaviour sucks Sad

That looks pretty convincing on paper. What sort of neutral coverage does it get? The only issue I can think of is that Infernape has a similarly easy time and the time spent training/gaining extra levels/etc doesn't make up for it. I kinda doubt it though, because Close Combat has annoying stat-down messages and according to Serebii Brick Break is a Battle Tower prize. If Teleport saves any decent amout of time anywhere then it looks pretty much sealed.

If Machop can handle the first gym by itself then that sounds faster (and gets more exp) than switching around, although if Turtwig isn't being used for the gym then maybe it would be better to choose Chimchar as a starter anyway for early outspeeding purposes. Low Kick should smack the gym pretty hard, and unless Turtwig gets to Lv13 for Razor Leaf it should be faster than Absorb anyway.

UltimateDarius

Edit history:

UltimateDarius: 2009-08-22 02:52:16 pm

2009-08-22 08:55:50 am

Back in the game!

Quote from DoubleThink:

Misbehaviour sucks Sad

That looks pretty convincing on paper. What sort of neutral coverage does it get? The only issue I can think of is that Infernape has a similarly easy time and the time spent training/gaining extra levels/etc doesn't make up for it. I kinda doubt it though, because Close Combat has annoying stat-down messages and according to Serebii Brick Break is a Battle Tower prize. If Teleport saves any decent amout of time anywhere then it looks pretty much sealed.

If Machop can handle the first gym by itself then that sounds faster (and gets more exp) than switching around, although if Turtwig isn't being used for the gym then maybe it would be better to choose Chimchar as a starter anyway for early outspeeding purposes. Low Kick should smack the gym pretty hard, and unless Turtwig gets to Lv13 for Razor Leaf it should be faster than Absorb anyway.

Shadow Ball and Psychic offer very nice neutral coverage. Later in the game, you can get away with a few Grass Knot and Shock Wave neutral OHKOs too, but they are mostly there for SE OHKOs before Psychic is available. Then of course there was the fog too. I think there were only two fights in the fog? I forgot already. The Ponyta was OHKOed with Shock Wave, and I believe the other two pokemon I fought were Psychic OHKOs.

Late game, when Charge Beam became needed for OHKOs, I was able to get away with some neutral OHKOs that were otherwise impossible (Shadow Ball against Cynthia's Roserade comes to mind)

If I remember any more, I will list them here, but I think this is the full list of Pokemon that were more than OHKO (after evolving into Kadabra):

That very first one that I mentioned before learning Psybeam (I really don't remember what it was, but I distinctly remember there only being one)

Grunt's Stunky

Random Bronzor before learning Shadow Ball

Byron's Bronzor (Shock Wave/Shadow Ball or Critical SB)
Byron's Bastiodon (2HKO Grass Knot/Critical hit Grass Knot)

Commander Mars' Bronzor (atop Memorial Pillar or whatever it's called where you get Palkia/Dialga. This one can be OHKOed with variable damage)
Commander Jupiter's Bronzor (same as above, but this one has different/higher special defenses and cannot be OHKOed without a critical hit)
Commander Jupiter's Purugly (same as above)
Commander Mars' Skuntank (same as above)
Ally's Munchlax (same fight as above. All it does is screech, so if you KO it, his Infernape is actually capable of doing something useful)

Palkia/Dialga (not important, but I guess worth mentioning)

EDIT: Victory Road Trainer's Blissey

Rival's Snorlax (two upped special attacks, available via OHKO charge beam, makes up for this and enables a OHKO Psychic)

Aaron's Drapion (this fucker is difficult...it might be worth it to switch in Palkia to take it down.)

Lucian's Girafarig (Two Charge Beams, with stat ups each time)
Lucian's Bronzong (Two Shadow Balls/ a critical SB, after the stat ups from above)

Cynthia's Spiritomb (Charge Beam with a stat-up to SB)
Cynthia's Garchomp (Problem eliminated with the Charge Beam from above)
Cynthia's Milotic (See above)

On the Teleport issue, where could it be used? I used it on the backtrack from Oreburgh to Jubilife. Is there anywhere else?

And lastly, on the starter: If Machop is being used right away, then I don't think too much time is lost. I originally used Turtwig to guarantee the KO on the rival's starter, however it looks as though I can take out Grotle and Torterra with relative ease as Kadabra anyway (Psychic). I don't know if I can say that for certain for Empoleon (Grass Knot maybe?)

Anyhow, that's all I've got for now.

[quote="DoubleThink"]
Misbehaviour sucks :(

That looks pretty convincing on paper. What sort of neutral coverage does it get? The only issue I can think of is that Infernape has a similarly easy time and the time spent training/gaining extra levels/etc doesn't make up for it. I kinda doubt it though, because Close Combat has annoying stat-down messages and according to Serebii Brick Break is a Battle Tower prize. If Teleport saves any decent amout of time anywhere then it looks pretty much sealed.

If Machop can handle the first gym by itself then that sounds faster (and gets more exp) than switching around, although if Turtwig isn't being used for the gym then maybe it would be better to choose Chimchar as a starter anyway for early outspeeding purposes. Low Kick should smack the gym pretty hard, and unless Turtwig gets to Lv13 for Razor Leaf it should be faster than Absorb anyway.
[/quote]

Shadow Ball and Psychic offer very nice neutral coverage.  Later in the game, you can get away with a few Grass Knot and Shock Wave neutral OHKOs too, but they are mostly there for SE OHKOs before Psychic is available.  Then of course there was the fog too.  I think there were only two fights in the fog?  I forgot already.  The Ponyta was OHKOed with Shock Wave, and I believe the other two pokemon I fought were Psychic OHKOs.

Late game, when Charge Beam became needed for OHKOs, I was able to get away with some neutral OHKOs that were otherwise impossible (Shadow Ball against Cynthia's Roserade comes to mind)

If I remember any more, I will list them here, but I think this is the full list of Pokemon that were more than OHKO (after evolving into Kadabra):

That very first one that I mentioned before learning Psybeam (I really don't remember what it was, but I distinctly remember there only being one)

Grunt's Stunky

Random Bronzor before learning Shadow Ball

Byron's Bronzor (Shock Wave/Shadow Ball or Critical SB)
Byron's Bastiodon (2HKO Grass Knot/Critical hit Grass Knot)

Commander Mars' Bronzor (atop Memorial Pillar or whatever it's called where you get Palkia/Dialga.  This one can be OHKOed with variable damage)
Commander Jupiter's Bronzor (same as above, but this one has different/higher special defenses and cannot be OHKOed without a critical hit)
Commander Jupiter's Purugly (same as above)
Commander Mars' Skuntank (same as above)
Ally's Munchlax (same fight as above.  All it does is screech, so if you KO it, his Infernape is actually capable of doing something useful)

Palkia/Dialga (not important, but I guess worth mentioning)

[b]EDIT: [/b] [i]Victory Road Trainer's Blissey[/i]

Rival's Snorlax (two upped special attacks, available via OHKO charge beam, makes up for this and enables a OHKO Psychic)

Aaron's Drapion (this fucker is difficult...it might be worth it to switch in Palkia to take it down.)

Lucian's Girafarig (Two Charge Beams, with stat ups each time)
Lucian's Bronzong (Two Shadow Balls/ a critical SB, after the stat ups from above)

Cynthia's Spiritomb (Charge Beam with a stat-up to SB)
Cynthia's Garchomp (Problem eliminated with the Charge Beam from above)
Cynthia's Milotic (See above)

On the Teleport issue, where could it be used?  I used it on the backtrack from Oreburgh to Jubilife.  Is there anywhere else?

And lastly, on the starter:  If Machop is being used right away, then I don't think too much time is lost.  I originally used Turtwig to guarantee the KO on the rival's starter, however it looks as though I can take out Grotle and Torterra with relative ease as Kadabra anyway (Psychic).  I don't know if I can say that for certain for Empoleon (Grass Knot maybe?)

Anyhow, that's all I've got for now.

Rattlingjoint

2009-08-22 06:00:16 pm

Grass Knot wont OHKO Empoleon its defenses are too high. Turtwig seems like best option since Psychic will tear through Infernape on every occasion

neskamikaze

2009-08-22 06:12:16 pm

Well if he can OHKO Torterra like Infernape, wouldn't it be faster to take Piplup over Turtwig? Piplup has a higher base speed for its beginning use (40 vs 31), plus when fighting Monferno and Infernape you have a super effective message to waste a slight amount of time, which is not the case on Grotle and Torterra.

UltimateDarius

2009-08-22 07:11:05 pm

Back in the game!

Quote from Rattlingjoint:

Grass Knot wont OHKO Empoleon its defenses are too high. Turtwig seems like best option since Psychic will tear through Infernape on every occasion

It's a neutral effectiveness attack, which will save a small amount of time if it does OHKO due to no SE message. There is one fight against a relatively high level Empoleon near the end (Victory Road maybe? I forgot) that I have no issue taking out with Grass Knot as it is. I will test this against the rival in my next test run. Worst case scenario, we are stuck starting with Turtwig, but since he only needs to fight about 3-4 battles, if he can't outspeed, oh well. If he can with a +speed nature and/or good speed IV, then great.

Also, I edited the Wiki to include the pros/cons of using this trade.

Rattlingjoint

2009-08-22 07:56:24 pm

Isnt Empoleon 1/2x dmg to Psychic attacks since its Steel? Its Secondary Steel but since Water is 1xdmg to Psychic attacks Secondary will 1/2 it right? It should work in the same manner Infernape recieves 2x dmg from Psychic attacks since Fire is 1x so the Secondary takes over.

neskamikaze

2009-08-22 08:39:21 pm

Quote from Rattlingjoint:

Isnt Empoleon 1/2x dmg to Psychic attacks since its Steel? Its Secondary Steel but since Water is 1xdmg to Psychic attacks Secondary will 1/2 it right? It should work in the same manner Infernape recieves 2x dmg from Psychic attacks since Fire is 1x so the Secondary takes over.

He's saying Grass Knot is neutral effective.

UltimateDarius

Edit history:

UltimateDarius: 2009-08-23 12:35:01 am

2009-08-22 10:28:13 pm

Back in the game!

The Diamond version trade is the exact same Pokemon: Same Nature/IVs. ~~Anyone want to try out Platinum to see if it's any different?~~

EDIT: Neskamikaze has confirmed with me that it is the exact same Pokemon in all versions.

Greenalink

2009-08-23 12:02:53 pm

DS Dictator

Sounds pretty cool so far with these updates.

If you want to know the Base Power of Grass Knot (and Low Kick) on certain Pokémon here is a website from the link below.

http://www.serebii.net/games/gklk.shtml

I also think that Charge Beam has a 70% for a Sp. Atk boost to occur, it's been mentioned in Smogon, Serebii and Bulbapedia.
Pretty cool idea. Too bad there's hardly any Lum Berries to possibly cure a random status from Kadabra's disobedience.

DoubleThink

2009-08-23 10:52:16 pm

There's a word for that

*Cross-references*
Okay so Grass Knot has 80 base power vs Empoleon. If that's not always enough then Shock Wave/Charge Beam probably should be; as long as Chimchar does outspeed something at the start it should have the advantage.

TimeSpaceMage

2009-08-24 09:40:16 am

A hat riding a mage?!

Disobedient pokemon get random status changes now? That sounds pretty farfetch'd!

Greenalink

2009-08-24 10:05:38 am

DS Dictator

I'm not actually sure. I remember years and years ago on Red/Blue that a disobient Pokémon may ignore the trainer's commands and either:
* Skip a turn
* Gets confused
* Goes to slieep.

Quote from Bulbapedia:

Quote:

This can range from using a different move from the one instructed, "loafing around", or even taking a nap.

I'm not sure if the Pokémon that decides to go to sleep then cures with a Staus related Berry can perform an attack afterwards.

neskamikaze

2009-08-24 10:25:49 am

Quote from Greenalink:

I'm not sure if the Pokémon that decides to go to sleep then cures with a Staus related Berry can perform an attack afterwards.

It can't on the same turn, since going to sleep uses up it's turn. It can attack on the next turn, but there's no guarantee that it will.