Paper Mario (N64) Discussion and Planning Sub-4:40

2006-01-19 09:40:35 am

Sleeping Terror

Quote:

And why have color options if you can't use them? -.-

Making all of your posts a different color can be annoying to read, especially when it blends with the background (like pink and grey). Color is fine in moderation.

Quote:

In order to plan when you get your level-ups, use this site (Warning! Big page!): http://www.rpgclassics.com/shrines/n64/papermario/starpoints.shtml

Awesome! When I was thinking of running this game, a list of star points was the only thing I couldn't find written down.

Regarding segmentation: I think a well-planned run of this game will turn out to be at least as risky as the M&L run was. Saving takes almost no time, so I would encourage a runner to use plenty of segments. If people think it's annoying to download so many, and they're too lazy to learn how to use an FTP client or Wget or anything else, well... that's their problem.

Floogal, why wouldn't you send in a run? Just because you don't want to buy the game? You sound like you could make an excellent run.

[quote]And why have color options if you can't use them? -.-[/quote]
Making all of your posts a different color can be annoying to read, especially when it blends with the background (like pink and grey). Color is fine in moderation.

[quote]In order to plan when you get your level-ups, use this site (Warning!  Big page!): http://www.rpgclassics.com/shrines/n64/papermario/starpoints.shtml[/quote]
Awesome! When I was thinking of running this game, a list of star points was the only thing I couldn't find written down.

Regarding segmentation: I think a well-planned run of this game will turn out to be [i]at least[/i] as risky as the M&L run was. Saving takes almost no time, so I would encourage a runner to use plenty of segments. If people think it's annoying to download so many, and they're too lazy to learn how to use an FTP client or Wget or anything else, well... that's their problem.

Floogal, why wouldn't you send in a run? Just because you don't want to buy the game? You sound like you could make an excellent run.

kwinse

2006-01-19 03:59:00 pm

Going for a world record and a personal record are two different things...

I'd love to do this run, but I'd have to borrow my friend's copy (not sure if he would especially care, but...) plus the fact that I'm normally lazy would... remove any guarantees that I'd finish it.

Bulblax

Edit history:

Bulblax: 2006-01-19 08:33:18 pm

2006-01-19 08:32:41 pm

hi

in order to plan when you get your level-ups, use this site (Warning! Big page!): http://www.rpgclassics.com/shrines/n64/papermario/starpoints.shtml

SOMEONE had a lot of time on their hands <_< Useful link though.

He always charges up on his first turn

Can't rely on this...he doesn't do it often enough <_< Although that could be a benefit of using many segments, so if he DOES charge you can use that trick.

edit: damn tags <_<

Jacob91

2006-01-19 10:21:45 pm

Where can i get a cheap and good capture card?

Jacob91

Edit history:

Jacob91: 2006-01-20 02:49:46 am

2006-01-20 02:09:30 am

A few questions before i start.
would it be okay to show a practice segment to the public before posting it to get tips?
And where can i get a ccapture card that is good and can record from the TV?
how do you skip text like that wak, press B?

Brown_Bomber

2006-01-20 03:16:06 am

I love YaBB 1G - SP1!

Text-skip by pressing B, and yeah, you can show segments to the public before submitting a run.

I only tested the Tutankoopa battle on an emulator, where I wasn't that good at blocking magic attacks. Yeah, if you can block, go for 3 rounds of Power Jump - Shell Shot.

Floogal, you need HP power-ups unless you want to get owned later in the game. You don't have enough Repel Gels to protect Mario all the time, and using Chill Out repeatedly would take way too much time. In both Paper Mario games, you're better off going offensive than defensive.

All right, when I had nothing to do in school today, I planned out more battle strategies, mostly with abusing Power Bounce.

Crystal King: Super Jump charge three times, Electro Shock three times, Power Bounce five times for a total of 80 damage and the win.

Bowser (2): Jump Charge and Electro Shock; Star Rod and Electro Shock; Jump Charge and Electro Shock. Assuming that Bowser doesn't heal, Power Bounce five times for exactly 40 damage needed to kill Bowser.

Bowser (3): Luck manipulation will probably need to be involved here. Before he powers himself up with the Star Rod, use two rounds of Star Storm and Electro Shock to bring him down to 75 HP. After Twink battle, use Peach Beam/Electro Shock. Use a Repel Gel - Electro Shock - Super Jump Charge - Electro Shock combo. Bowser will probably use the Star Rod, so Peach Beam - Electro Shock. He'll probably heal to bring himself back to 90 HP, where you should use Super Jump Charge - Electro Shock to bring him to 85 HP. Super Jump Charge and Electro Shock for 80 damage. Assuming that you survive, use five Power Bounces for 75 damage to bring Bowser to 5 HP, then use Electro Shock for the win.

Text-skip by pressing B, and yeah, you can show segments to the public before submitting a run.

I only tested the Tutankoopa battle on an emulator, where I wasn't that good at blocking magic attacks. Yeah, if you can block, go for 3 rounds of Power Jump - Shell Shot.

Floogal, you need HP power-ups unless you want to get owned later in the game. You don't have enough Repel Gels to protect Mario all the time, and using Chill Out repeatedly would take way too much time. In both Paper Mario games, you're better off going offensive than defensive.

All right, when I had nothing to do in school today, I planned out more battle strategies, mostly with abusing Power Bounce.

Crystal King: Super Jump charge three times, Electro Shock three times, Power Bounce five times for a total of 80 damage and the win.

Bowser (2): Jump Charge and Electro Shock; Star Rod and Electro Shock; Jump Charge and Electro Shock. Assuming that Bowser doesn't heal, Power Bounce five times for exactly 40 damage needed to kill Bowser.

Bowser (3): Luck manipulation will probably need to be involved here. Before he powers himself up with the Star Rod, use two rounds of Star Storm and Electro Shock to bring him down to 75 HP. After Twink battle, use Peach Beam/Electro Shock. Use a Repel Gel - Electro Shock - Super Jump Charge - Electro Shock combo. Bowser will probably use the Star Rod, so Peach Beam - Electro Shock. He'll probably heal to bring himself back to 90 HP, where you should use Super Jump Charge - Electro Shock to bring him to 85 HP. Super Jump Charge and Electro Shock for 80 damage. Assuming that you survive, use five Power Bounces for 75 damage to bring Bowser to 5 HP, then use Electro Shock for the win.

Jacob91

2006-01-20 04:03:20 am

Uhhh... Two problems.
Crystal king has 70 hp, and bowser 2 has 50..

darkwasabi

Edit history:

darkwasabi: 2006-01-20 04:29:22 am

2006-01-20 04:25:10 am

King of hearts

Quote:

Where can i get a cheap and good capture card?

Try New Egg. You can capture surprisingly good quality for the price.

Edit:
That first one on the list says it's only Composite. It's the same one I got, and it supports S-Video too.

Floogal

Edit history:

Floogal: 2006-01-20 06:41:03 am

2006-01-20 06:25:33 am

Question: Is there any easy way to quote multiple people? I had to copy and paste from multiple posts....

Quote:

Floogal, why wouldn't you send in a run? Just because you don't want to buy the game? You sound like you could make an excellent run.

Well, I have no problem getting tapes and postage, but I don't feel that it's worth it to get a copy of the game when my emulator is working just fine.

Also, I'm busy playing other games at the moment (I just started playing A Link to the Past and Link's Awakening last week for the first time). I haven't yet gone through the game, timing how long each item/coin/badge detour takes and the time it saves later.

Finally, it's one thing to come up with a great strategy, but another to actually have the skill to execute it. I will never be able to pull off 13-attack Tidal Waves. In fact, I have trouble just Power Bouncing Bowser 5 times (even with the Dodge Master badge equipped -- yes, it did make a noticeable difference).

However, I may consider getting it for the future (or maybe the Revolution).

Quote:

Text-skip by pressing B

Just to clarify, simply hold down the B button for the whole conversation/cutscene. If you earn an item, etc., quickly release and hold B again. And if you're given a yes/no option, and you want the second (usually "no") option, don't push down on the control stick and then A; just press B.

Quote:

He always charges up on his first turn

Can't rely on this...he doesn't do it often enough <_< Although that could be a benefit of using many segments, so if he DOES charge you can use that trick.

Wrong. You would be surprised at the number of major bosses that have a non-random AI: Huff'N'Puff, Crystal King, Big Lanturn Ghost, Tutankoopa, etc. In the case of Tubba's Heart, his AI is: Charge up/Special, followed by a continuous cycle of charge-up/special, then tackle (Yes, he does his charge-up/special twice in a row, and then alternates).

Even Bowser has a slight pattern. I discovered this when trying to beat him at level 7 without items, badges, or super blocks. Basically, after Mario acquires the Peach Beam, he powers himself up with the star rod every four rounds. Once in a while he will power up a round early, and it may be a while before he first powers up, but it is pretty reliable.

The rest of Bowser is very random, though. Once, he healed twice within 4 rounds. Another time, he never healed at all during the entire 20+ round fight.

Quote:

Bowser (3): Luck manipulation will probably need to be involved here. Before he powers himself up with the Star Rod, use two rounds of Star Storm and Electro Shock to bring him down to 75 HP. After Twink battle, use Peach Beam/Electro Shock. Use a Repel Gel - Electro Shock - Super Jump Charge - Electro Shock combo. Bowser will probably use the Star Rod, so Peach Beam - Electro Shock. He'll probably heal to bring himself back to 90 HP, where you should use Super Jump Charge - Electro Shock to bring him to 85 HP. Super Jump Charge and Electro Shock for 80 damage. Assuming that you survive, use five Power Bounces for 75 damage to bring Bowser to 5 HP, then use Electro Shock for the win.

You'll want to re-think this strategy. Bowser's shockwave attack, even if blocked, destroys any positive status boosts that Mario or Goombario may have. And he uses the attack frequently, so you would have to rely on Outta Sight or Close Call to make the attack actually miss Mario when Bowser uses it.

Quote:

Floogal, you need HP power-ups unless you want to get owned later in the game. You don't have enough Repel Gels to protect Mario all the time, and using Chill Out repeatedly would take way too much time. In both Paper Mario games, you're better off going offensive than defensive.

All Repel Gels and LIfe Shrooms will be saved for the final fight with Bowser. All of the other bosses will be beaten so quickly that only a little luck from the Close Call Badge (~25% evasion when in Danger) is necessary to stay alive. If necessary, disabling bosses would work too (Dizzy works pretty reliably on Crystal King).

Just so this whole post isn't just a quote-commment, here is a quick strategy for Bowser #2 (the one with 50 HP):
Start the battle with 1 HP, Mega Rush, and an attack boosting badge (most likely P-up, D-down). With the +5 attack and Bowser's defense of 1, a 5-hit Power Bounce will do 25 damage (7 + 6 + 5 + 4 + 3). Do this twice, with Bow protecting you with Outta Sight, and Bowser's beaten before he ever uses the star rod (which is always on his second turn). For a faster finish, don't use Outta Sight (simply have the partner skip its turn), and hope Close Call makes the attack miss.

If P-up, D-down isn't used, then a 5-hit Power Bounce only does 20 damage. So Close Call must be used, and supplement with 2 Shell Shots from a super-ranked Parakarry (faster to execute than Electro Dash from Watt).

Note that I have not actually done this (I recently played the game several times with special conditions -- I'm saving my quick playthroughs for until I research the game more), but it looks like it would work on paper.

EDIT: The issue with the preceding strategy is starting with 1 HP. However, if you don't level up from the preceding Jr. Troopa #6 battle, then this shouldn't be a problem.

Question:  Is there any easy way to quote multiple people?  I had to copy and paste from multiple posts....

[quote author=StrangenessDSS]
Floogal, why wouldn't you send in a run? Just because you don't want to buy the game? You sound like you could make an excellent run.
[/quote]

Well, I have no problem getting tapes and postage, but I don't feel that it's worth it to get a copy of the game when my emulator is working just fine.

Also, I'm busy playing other games at the moment (I just started playing A Link to the Past and Link's Awakening last week for the first time).  I haven't yet gone through the game, timing how long each item/coin/badge detour takes and the time it saves later.

Finally, it's one thing to come up with a great strategy, but another to actually have the skill to execute it.  I will never be able to pull off 13-attack Tidal Waves.  In fact, I have trouble just Power Bouncing Bowser 5 times (even with the Dodge Master badge equipped -- yes, it did make a noticeable difference).

However, I may consider getting it for the future (or maybe the Revolution).

[quote author=Brown_Bomber]
Text-skip by pressing B
[/quote]

Just to clarify, simply hold down the B button for the whole conversation/cutscene.  If you earn an item, etc., quickly release and hold B again.  And if you're given a yes/no option, and you want the second (usually "no") option, don't push down on the control stick and then A; just press B.

[quote author=Bulblax]
He always charges up on his first turn
 
Can't rely on this...he doesn't do it often enough <_< Although that could be a benefit of using many segments, so if he DOES charge you can use that trick. 
[/quote]

Wrong.  You would be surprised at the number of major bosses that have a non-random AI:  Huff'N'Puff, Crystal King, Big Lanturn Ghost, Tutankoopa, etc.  In the case of Tubba's Heart, his AI is: Charge up/Special, followed by a continuous cycle of charge-up/special, then tackle (Yes, he does his charge-up/special twice in a row, and then alternates).

Even Bowser has a slight pattern.  I discovered this when trying to beat him at level 7 without items, badges, or super blocks.  Basically, after Mario acquires the Peach Beam, he powers himself up with the star rod every four rounds.  Once in a while he will power up a round early, and it may be a while before he first powers up, but it is pretty reliable.

The rest of Bowser is very random, though.  Once, he healed twice within 4 rounds.  Another time, he never healed at all during the entire 20+ round fight.

[quote author=Bulblax]
Bowser (3): Luck manipulation will probably need to be involved here. Before he powers himself up with the Star Rod, use two rounds of Star Storm and Electro Shock to bring him down to 75 HP. After Twink battle, use Peach Beam/Electro Shock. Use a Repel Gel - Electro Shock - Super Jump Charge - Electro Shock combo. Bowser will probably use the Star Rod, so Peach Beam - Electro Shock. He'll probably heal to bring himself back to 90 HP, where you should use Super Jump Charge - Electro Shock to bring him to 85 HP. Super Jump Charge and Electro Shock for 80 damage. Assuming that you survive, use five Power Bounces for 75 damage to bring Bowser to 5 HP, then use Electro Shock for the win.
[/quote]

You'll want to re-think this strategy.  Bowser's shockwave attack, even if blocked, destroys any positive status boosts that Mario or Goombario may have.  And he uses the attack frequently, so you would have to rely on Outta Sight or Close Call to make the attack actually miss Mario when Bowser uses it.

[quote author=Bulblax]
Floogal, you need HP power-ups unless you want to get owned later in the game. You don't have enough Repel Gels to protect Mario all the time, and using Chill Out repeatedly would take way too much time. In both Paper Mario games, you're better off going offensive than defensive. 
[/quote]

All Repel Gels and LIfe Shrooms will be saved for the final fight with Bowser.  All of the other bosses will be beaten so quickly that only a little luck from the Close Call Badge (~25% evasion when in Danger) is necessary to stay alive.  If necessary, disabling bosses would work too (Dizzy works pretty reliably on Crystal King).

Just so this whole post isn't just a quote-commment, here is a quick strategy for Bowser #2 (the one with 50 HP):
Start the battle with 1 HP, Mega Rush, and an attack boosting badge (most likely P-up, D-down).  With the +5 attack and Bowser's defense of 1, a 5-hit Power Bounce will do 25 damage (7 + 6 + 5 + 4 + 3).  Do this twice, with Bow protecting you with Outta Sight, and Bowser's beaten before he ever uses the star rod (which is always on his second turn).  For a faster finish, don't use Outta Sight (simply have the partner skip its turn), and hope Close Call makes the attack miss.

If P-up, D-down isn't used, then a 5-hit Power Bounce only does 20 damage.  So Close Call must be used, and supplement with 2 Shell Shots from a super-ranked Parakarry (faster to execute than Electro Dash from Watt).

Note that I have not actually done this (I recently played the game several times with special conditions -- I'm saving my quick playthroughs for until I research the game more), but it looks like it would work on paper.

EDIT:  The issue with the preceding strategy is starting with 1 HP.  However, if you don't level up from the preceding Jr. Troopa #6 battle, then this shouldn't be a problem.

Bulblax

2006-01-20 08:34:19 pm

hi

really? I'll have to check that out

I swear he's done that normal attack first, but I could be wrong

Never seen that in a game before o_O

Jacob91

Edit history:

Jacob91: 2006-01-20 09:27:47 pm

2006-01-20 09:23:15 pm

By the way, I'm karterchick's bro writing this, I'm doing the run, she's just helping push me along and finding mistakes and stuff like that.

Segment 1: Beginning-Shooting star summit save
Strategy:
Start-hold B to text skip
wait for starting sequence to finish
spin to princess peach, up the stairs, left path to door, jump up stairs, spin to princess, Text skip, rapid A tap for two turns, text skip, rapid tap A and text skip until death, fall, text skip, wait for paper mario logo to pop up, and the prologue indicator. Rapidly tap A and start to skip fast.Hold B to text skip until mario is up, quickly jump to door and open, jump and spin to goompa's house next door, open door quickly, talk to goompa on the veranda, open door, immediately spin left and diagonally down and open the door.
Spin to goompapa at the fence and text skip, spin back to veranda, text skip, spin to playground, look in bush get hammer, spin to exit, Rapid tap A and Text skip to beat troopa fast, spin to block, smash, do not heal, get fireflower on cliff as fast as possible, text skip, go to next area, avoid enemies and spin to exit, spin to gate, text skip, text skip ALOT and say no twice.
spin to gate and smash block.
Equip power jump.
Here's where you can easily screw up.
Spin to first goomba, retreat slightly, and weave between the two goombas spin, avoiding the paragoomba and spin to exit.
Spin without getting the mushroom or healing.
spin to goomba bros.
Turn 1: Fireflower/headbonk red
Turn 2: Power Jump red/ headbonk blue
Turn 3: power jump blue
Go heal
Go to goomba king
text skip
Turn 1: Power jump goomba king/headbonk tree
Turn 2: Power jump/ headbonk

Go to bush shake, hammer switch, text skip,
Spin to exit
OPTIONAL: Get super shroom after cutscene that you text skip in.

spin to summit, spin up summit, text skip, save&quit

Any improvements i can make to the first segment?
here is the proposed max times:
17:56: Perfect first segment
17:59: Target for Speed run
20:04: WAK'S time
18:09: Target for speed run if i get the super shroom.
18:11: Practice record

Here are the most accurate spin timings that i have made.
(across toad town 4-way area)
Spin constant: 10:398
Spin+ Jump: 10:322

So yeah, spin+jump is faster, but annoying to have to constantly do, and is only faster if you make sure all of the jumps are timed right.
With speedy spin though, i am not sure which is faster.

By the way, I'm karterchick's bro writing this, I'm doing the run, she's just helping push me along and finding mistakes and stuff like that.

Segment 1: Beginning-Shooting star summit save
Strategy:
Start-hold B to text skip
wait for starting sequence to finish
spin to princess peach, up the stairs, left path to door, jump up stairs, spin to princess, Text skip, rapid A tap for two turns, text skip, rapid tap A and text skip until death, fall, text skip, wait for paper mario logo to pop up, and the prologue indicator. Rapidly tap A and start to skip fast.Hold B to text skip until mario is up, quickly jump to door and open, jump and spin to goompa's house next door, open door quickly, talk to goompa on the veranda, open door, immediately spin left and diagonally down and open the door.
Spin to goompapa at the fence and  text skip, spin back to veranda, text skip, spin to playground, look in bush get hammer, spin to exit, Rapid tap A and Text skip to beat troopa fast, spin to block, smash, do not heal, get fireflower on cliff as fast as possible, text skip, go to next area, avoid enemies and spin to exit, spin to gate, text skip, text skip ALOT and say no twice.
spin to gate and smash block.
Equip power jump.
Here's where you can easily screw up.
Spin to first goomba, retreat slightly, and weave between the two goombas spin, avoiding the paragoomba and spin to exit.
Spin without getting the mushroom or healing.
spin to goomba bros.
Turn 1: Fireflower/headbonk red
Turn 2: Power Jump red/ headbonk blue
Turn 3: power jump blue
Go heal
Go to goomba king
text skip
Turn 1: Power jump goomba king/headbonk tree
Turn 2: Power jump/ headbonk

Go to bush shake, hammer switch, text skip,
Spin to exit
OPTIONAL: Get super shroom after cutscene that you text skip in.

spin to summit, spin up summit, text skip, save&quit

Any improvements i can make to the first segment?
here is the proposed max times:
17:56: Perfect first segment
17:59: Target for Speed run
20:04: WAK'S time
18:09: Target for speed run if i get the super shroom.
18:11: Practice record

Here are the most accurate spin timings that i have made.
(across toad town 4-way area)
Spin constant: 10:398
Spin+ Jump: 10:322

So yeah, spin+jump is faster, but annoying to have to constantly do, and is only faster if you make sure all of the jumps are timed right.
With speedy spin though, i am not sure which is faster.

WingedKitsune

2006-01-20 11:46:02 pm

I love YaBB 1G - SP1!

So. Exactly how man Segments are you planning to post?

I hope it's not as man as the last run. Having to download all of those short segments is a pain.

YautjaElder

Edit history:

YautjaElder: 2006-01-20 11:52:03 pm

2006-01-20 11:48:43 pm

Speed is the key.

Quote:

So. Exactly how man Segments are you planning to post?

I hope it's not as man as the last run. Having to download all of those short segments is a pain.

Just download them all via FTP.

Good night. :sleep:

Floogal

2006-01-21 03:11:58 am

Some comments for Karterchick86 and her bro:

- If you can easily screw up right after getting the Power Jump badge, why not save then? Since everything before that is quite boring anyways, it saves casual viewers from downloading it.

- Remember that you need to have 50 coins by the time you beat Jr. Troopa #2 in order to buy the Speedy Spin badge. Are you collecting any from the bushes/blocks along the way?

- Are you going to get the Close Call badge? (See my earlier posts for how you might use it.)

- The fire flower does save significant time in the Goomba Bros. battle, but does it save more time in a later Ch. 1 battle? Having to acquire coins to buy extra Fire Flowers probably isn't worth it.

- Instead of backtracking to the Heal Block after the Goomba Bros., simply eat a Goomnut that you picked up from Goomba Villiage earlier. This will boost you back up to 4 FP, which is enough. Unfortunately, unless you use the Heal Block right after Jr. Troopa #1, you'll have to hope that Goomba King doesn't use his 2 damage attack.

Some comments for Karterchick86 and her bro:

- If you can easily screw up right after getting the Power Jump badge, why not save then?  Since everything before that is quite boring anyways, it saves casual viewers from downloading it.

- Remember that you need to have 50 coins by the time you beat Jr. Troopa #2 in order to buy the Speedy Spin badge.  Are you collecting any from the bushes/blocks along the way?

- Are you going to get the Close Call badge?  (See my earlier posts for how you might use it.)

- The fire flower does save significant time in the Goomba Bros. battle, but does it save more time in a later Ch. 1 battle?  Having to acquire coins to buy extra Fire Flowers probably isn't worth it.

- Instead of backtracking to the Heal Block after the Goomba Bros., simply eat a Goomnut that you picked up from Goomba Villiage earlier.  This will boost you back up to 4 FP, which is enough.  Unfortunately, unless you use the Heal Block right after Jr. Troopa #1, you'll have to hope that Goomba King doesn't use his 2 damage attack.

Jacob91

2006-01-21 04:10:37 am

Yeah i think i will save the fire flower for the fuzzy battle.

WingedKitsune

Edit history:

WingedKitsune: 2006-01-21 05:44:57 am

2006-01-21 05:30:47 am

I love YaBB 1G - SP1!

Actually, I cannot download them via FTP. I can only download one at a time, or through Bit Torrent..

And Goomba King has a two damage attack??

In all the times I have ever played it, I have never seen that happen once.

But, fighting the Goomba Brothers without using the Heal Block, or staying at the Inn in Goomba Village might be considered a bit Suicidal.

Or unless you use a Mushroom to restore Hit Points.

illuminated

2006-01-21 05:33:11 am

Quote:

By the way, I'm karterchick's bro writing this, I'm doing the run, she's just helping push me along and finding mistakes and stuff like that.

Wow. That's the first runner I know of that went and got themselves a manager.

Floogal

Edit history:

Floogal: 2006-01-21 07:05:03 am

2006-01-21 07:04:11 am

Quote:

Actually, I cannot download them via FTP. I can only download one at a time, or through Bit Torrent..

And Goomba King has a two damage attack??

In all the times I have ever played it, I have never seen that happen once.

But, fighting the Goomba Brothers without using the Heal Block, or staying at the Inn in Goomba Village might be considered a bit Suicidal.

Or unless you use a Mushroom to restore Hit Points.

No one answered my question about quoting....

Anyways, the Goomba King's 2 damage attack is when he stomps the ground, causing some spiky goomnuts to fall on Mario. He can only use this attack once, though he seems to always use this first whenever I fight him. I guess I'm just unlucky.

With regards to healing, if you use the Fire Flower against the Goomba Bros., then you never need to heal once: 5 damage from Jr. Troopa, 3 damage from the Goomba Bros., and 1 damage from the Goomba King (hope he doesn't use the Goomnut attack).

If you choose to save the Fire Flower, then the Goomba Bros. will do 5 damage, so you will need to heal at the Heal Block right after Jr. Troopa #1. Here is where you would use a Goomnut after the Goomba Bros. battle.

I don't believe that using a Goomnut during the Goomba Bros. battle is worthwhile (only helps you defeat them 1 round earlier).

Now, if you picked up Close Call, then you can save the Fire Flower while simultaneously getting by without healing.

[quote]Actually, I cannot download them via FTP.  I can only download one at a time, or through Bit Torrent..

And Goomba King has a two damage attack??

In all the times I have ever played it, I have never seen that happen once.

But, fighting the Goomba Brothers without using the Heal Block, or staying at the Inn in Goomba Village might be considered a bit Suicidal.

Or unless you use a Mushroom to restore Hit Points.[/quote]

No one answered my question about quoting....

Anyways, the Goomba King's 2 damage attack is when he stomps the ground, causing some spiky goomnuts to fall on Mario.  He can only use this attack once, though he seems to always use this first whenever I fight him.  I guess I'm just unlucky.

With regards to healing, if you use the Fire Flower against the Goomba Bros., then you never need to heal once:  5 damage from Jr. Troopa, 3 damage from the Goomba Bros., and 1 damage from the Goomba King (hope he doesn't use the Goomnut attack).

If you choose to save the Fire Flower, then the Goomba Bros. will do 5 damage, so you will need to heal at the Heal Block right after Jr. Troopa #1.  Here is where you would use a Goomnut after the Goomba Bros. battle.

I don't believe that using a Goomnut during the Goomba Bros. battle is worthwhile (only helps you defeat them 1 round earlier).

Now, if you picked up Close Call, then you can save the Fire Flower while simultaneously getting by without healing.

Jacob91

Edit history:

Jacob91: 2006-01-21 04:39:02 pm

2006-01-21 04:09:39 pm

floogal: Just put want you want to quote in quote tags.
And isn't there a cooking item that is easy to make and has a 1/3 chance of giving you the same effects of a repel gel?
EDIT: It is strange cake, an item that you can only find by cooking cake mix and strange leaf together.I doubt it will be useful though...
EDIT2: Is this capture card good?
http://www.newegg.com/Product/CustRatingReview.asp?Item=N82E16814144503

trihex

2006-01-21 06:35:19 pm

Yoshi's eggs are at my mercy!

Quote:

No one answered my question about quoting....

No, there is no "official" way to do multiple quotes. The easiest way is to do a middle click with your scroll wheel of your mouse on the quote button if you're using firefox. It will open the quote in a new tab, and from there, copying and pasting makes multiple quotes a breeze.

Floogal

2006-01-21 09:41:31 pm

Quote:

No, there is no "official" way to do multiple quotes. The easiest way is to do a middle click with your scroll wheel of your mouse on the quote button if you're using firefox. It will open the quote in a new tab, and from there, copying and pasting makes multiple quotes a breeze.

Thanks a lot! My mouse only has two buttons, but I can simply right-click the quote link and select "open in new tab." I used your technique (which I can't believe I didn't think of) for this very post.

Quote:

And isn't there a cooking item that is easy to make and has a 1/3 chance of giving you the same effects of a repel gel?
EDIT: It is strange cake, an item that you can only find by cooking cake mix and strange leaf together.I doubt it will be useful though...

Cooking the cake mix with a Koopa Leaf will produce the superior Kooky Cookie, which has the same effects as the Mystery Cake, except that it also restores 15 FP.

However, I agree that it is probably useless. When do you think you need the invisibility, where Outta Sight, Repel Gels, and evasion won't cut it?

My suggestion for planning the battles is to see how fast you would beat them without collecting any badges or items, and then see how much collecting each one speeds up the battle and costs you for the detour.

Some other random thoughts:

For money-making, remember that some items sell for different amounts at different stores. Some notable items include:
- Dried Fruit sells for 20 coins at the Shroom Grocery, as opposed to 5 coins anywhere else.
- Jelly-Ultras sell for 200 coins at Boos Mansion, as opposed to 150 coins elsewhere
- Whacka Bumps sell for 64 coins at the Shroom Grocery, as opposed to 50 coins elsewhere
- battle items that Harry doesn't stock tend to sell better at Harry's Shop
- Mistakes and Pebbles sell for 20 coins at Bowser's castle, as opposed to 1 coin elsewhere

Also, you can infinitely earn coins at the rate of about 1 every 5 seconds by buying Volt Shrooms from Harry's Shop, cooking them all up, and selling the resulting Hot Shrooms back to Harry for a 5 coin profit each.

Check out this site (already mentioned earlier) for most of your Paper Mario needs: http://www.rpgclassics.com/shrines/n64/papermario/

For Mt. Rugged, get the Bub-ulb on the way back.

At Flower Fields, you don't need to pick up the Fertile Soil from Posie before heading off to Lily; simply grab the yellow berry and leave the red-flower-gate area. When you come back after talking to Rosie, you can get both the Fertile Soil and the Crystal Berry at once. However, you can't do any of the other flowers out of order....

And just to dash any hopes, you can't skip the 3-minute Twink vs. Kammy cutscene. If you do at least 99 damage to Bowser #3 in the first two rounds of battle (which is possible to do), he simply keeps fighting at 0 HP. When you return to the battle after the cutscene, he has 1 HP, allowing for a very quick finish.

I came about the above situation by abusing Merlee's battle boosts, which appear to not be random at all. I saved in Bowser's castle and started to fight enemies, making sure that Mario used a Hammer or Jump attack every round. I noticed that after a certain number of rounds (the number of battles didn't matter), Mario received the +3 attack boost from Merlee. After resetting, Mario would once again get the attack boost on the specified round, even if it was a different battle. If Mario didn't use a Hammer or Jump attack on that particular round, nothing would happen, and he wouldn't get the boost on the next round either.

So what I did was fight until the round before he was supposed to get the boost (time the current battle to finish at the right time), and then save and go fight Bowser. Sure enough, I got the +3 attack boost in the first round of battle.

So I equipped both Power Plus's, All or Nothing, P up-D down, and Mega Rush, and started the battle at 1 HP. I had Watt use Turbo Charge on Mario before Mario attacked on the first round. Combined with the attack boost from Merlee, this meant that the first 5-hit Power Bounce did 55 damage (13 + 12 + 11 + 10 + 9). The next round, Watt did 5 with Electro Dash, and Mario did 40 (10 + 9 + 8 + 7 + 6). In case you're wondering, I had to use Close Call to have Bowser's attack miss. I was annoyed to find (after Tattling) that he had 0 HP.

[quote]

No, there is no "official" way to do multiple quotes. The easiest way is to do a middle click with your scroll wheel of your mouse on the quote button if you're using firefox. It will open the quote in a new tab, and from there, copying and pasting makes multiple quotes a breeze.[/quote]

Thanks a lot!  My mouse only has two buttons, but I can simply right-click the quote link and select "open in new tab."  I used your technique (which I can't believe I didn't think of) for this very post.

[quote]
And isn't there a cooking item that is easy to make and has a 1/3 chance of giving you the same effects of a repel gel?
EDIT: It is strange cake, an item that you can only find by cooking cake mix and strange leaf together.I doubt it will be useful though...
[/quote]

Cooking the cake mix with a Koopa Leaf will produce the superior Kooky Cookie, which has the same effects as the Mystery Cake, except that it also restores 15 FP.

However, I agree that it is probably useless.  When do you think you need the invisibility, where Outta Sight, Repel Gels, and evasion won't cut it?

My suggestion for planning the battles is to see how fast you would beat them without collecting any badges or items, and then see how much collecting each one speeds up the battle and costs you for the detour.

Some other random thoughts:

For money-making, remember that some items sell for different amounts at different stores.  Some notable items include:
- Dried Fruit sells for 20 coins at the Shroom Grocery, as opposed to 5 coins anywhere else.
- Jelly-Ultras sell for 200 coins at Boos Mansion, as opposed to 150 coins elsewhere
- Whacka Bumps sell for 64 coins at the Shroom Grocery, as opposed to 50 coins elsewhere
- battle items that Harry doesn't stock tend to sell better at Harry's Shop
- Mistakes and Pebbles sell for 20 coins at Bowser's castle, as opposed to 1 coin elsewhere

Also, you can infinitely earn coins at the rate of about 1 every 5 seconds by buying Volt Shrooms from Harry's Shop, cooking them all up, and selling the resulting Hot Shrooms back to Harry for a 5 coin profit each.

Check out this site (already mentioned earlier) for most of your Paper Mario needs: http://www.rpgclassics.com/shrines/n64/papermario/

For Mt. Rugged, get the Bub-ulb on the way back.

At Flower Fields, you don't need to pick up the Fertile Soil from Posie before heading off to Lily; simply grab the yellow berry and leave the red-flower-gate area.  When you come back after talking to Rosie, you can get both the Fertile Soil and the Crystal Berry at once.  However, you can't do any of the other flowers out of order....

And just to dash any hopes, you can't skip the 3-minute Twink vs. Kammy cutscene.  If you do at least 99 damage to Bowser #3 in the first two rounds of battle (which is possible to do), he simply keeps fighting at 0 HP.  When you return to the battle after the cutscene, he has 1 HP, allowing for a very quick finish.

I came about the above situation by abusing Merlee's battle boosts, which appear to not be random at all.  I saved in Bowser's castle and started to fight enemies, making sure that Mario used a Hammer or Jump attack every round.  I noticed that after a certain number of rounds (the number of battles didn't matter), Mario received the +3 attack boost from Merlee.  After resetting, Mario would once again get the attack boost on the specified round, even if it was a different battle.  If Mario didn't use a Hammer or Jump attack on that particular round, nothing would happen, and he wouldn't get the boost on the next round either.

So what I did was fight until the round before he was supposed to get the boost (time the current battle to finish at the right time), and then save and go fight Bowser.  Sure enough, I got the +3 attack boost in the first round of battle.

So I equipped both Power Plus's, All or Nothing, P up-D down, and Mega Rush, and started the battle at 1 HP.  I had Watt use Turbo Charge on Mario before Mario attacked on the first round.  Combined with the attack boost from Merlee, this meant that the first 5-hit Power Bounce did 55 damage (13 + 12 + 11 + 10 + 9).  The next round, Watt did 5 with Electro Dash, and Mario did 40 (10 + 9 + 8 + 7 + 6).  In case you're wondering, I had to use Close Call to have Bowser's attack miss.  I was annoyed to find (after Tattling) that he had 0 HP.

Radix

2006-01-21 10:06:11 pm

I'm addicted to games

Heh, well, at least you can beat him the next turn by tapping him with watt.

Jacob91

Edit history:

Jacob91: 2006-01-23 12:17:49 am

2006-01-23 12:15:51 am

I have thoroughly planned and found the most effective coin route and planned 3 segments up to the end of chapter 1.

Coin route:

1-10: Block at Jr.Troopa's playground
11-14: Above spring leading to fireflower immediately after playground
15-17: In block right before koopa village
18-23: Coin trap after koopa village
24-34: Fight spoils from immediately after fighting bombette
35-42: Cannon battle spoils
42-52: Selling maple syrup from fortress at shroom grocery

Wak

(user is banned)

2006-01-23 05:25:20 pm

70 people helping her for the next run of paper mario against 1 for the ancient (5:04)run!!! obiously unfair!

i wanted to start a new run of it, with like 16 segments instead. i dunno if i will do it... hey i do nothing today omg XD i begin right now

Floogal

Edit history:

Floogal: 2006-01-23 06:24:31 pm

2006-01-23 06:18:19 pm

Quote:

Coin route:

1-10: Block at Jr.Troopa's playground
11-14: Above spring leading to fireflower immediately after playground
15-17: In block right before koopa village
18-23: Coin trap after koopa village
24-34: Fight spoils from immediately after fighting bombette
35-42: Cannon battle spoils
42-52: Selling maple syrup from fortress at shroom grocery

I'm not sure about selling the maple syrup, since it's a bit of a detour to the Shroom Grocery. How about selling some different items in Koopa Village? Or "defeat" the fire bars in the fortress for 10 coins each.

I hope that the Speedy Spin badge is on display when you first return to Toad Town....

What are your plans for the battles? I assume you are picking up the POW Block and Fire Flower from Pleasant Path. If you take the Fright Jar (I think there is one somewhere in Prelude/Chapter 1), it works better on Koopas than Bob-ombs.

Also, in case you didn't know, POW Blocks do attack flying enemies (probably a programming laziness to not give multi-hit items restrictions). However, since it only hits once, it will only drop Paratroopas, and not flip them over as well.

Against the second required Koopa battle (where you get the switch to lower the stairs), first strike from afar with Kooper to get to the switch faster after battle.

Against the Bill Blasters, I don't think it's worth it to use a battle item. Simply First Strike with Bombette, use a Power Jump/Bomb combo the first round, and finish off with a Hammer/Body Slam the second round. Or, you could let the Bullet Bill simply hit Mario -- is it faster?

The Trojan Koopa/Koopa Bros. battle should be four rounds, provided you choose FP for your earlier level up:
1: Power Jump + Bomb
2: Power Jump + switch to Kooper
3: Shell Toss, then untimed jump
4: Fire Flower + Power Shell

Hope this helps!

EDIT:

Quote:

70 people helping her for the next run of paper mario against 1 for the ancient (5:04)run!!! obiously unfair!

i wanted to start a new run of it, with like 16 segments instead. i dunno if i will do it... hey i do nothing today omg XD i begin right now

Hey, I didn't know about Speed Demos Archive back then!

Instead of competing with another runner, why not try a different run? Single segment might be a bit much, but there is min% and 100% (although, since Chuck Quizmo alone adds at least an hour, it may not be possible).

[quote]

Coin route:

1-10: Block at Jr.Troopa's playground
11-14: Above spring leading to fireflower immediately after playground
15-17: In block right before koopa village
18-23: Coin trap after koopa village
24-34: Fight spoils from immediately after fighting bombette
35-42: Cannon battle spoils
42-52: Selling maple syrup from fortress at shroom grocery
[/quote]

I'm not sure about selling the maple syrup, since it's a bit of a detour to the Shroom Grocery.  How about selling some different items in Koopa Village?  Or "defeat" the fire bars in the fortress for 10 coins each.

I hope that the Speedy Spin badge is on display when you first return to Toad Town....

What are your plans for the battles?  I assume you are picking up the POW Block and Fire Flower from Pleasant Path.  If you take the Fright Jar (I think there is one somewhere in Prelude/Chapter 1), it works better on Koopas than Bob-ombs.

Also, in case you didn't know, POW Blocks do attack flying enemies (probably a programming laziness to not give multi-hit items restrictions).  However, since it only hits once, it will only drop Paratroopas, and not flip them over as well.

Against the second required Koopa battle (where you get the switch to lower the stairs), first strike from afar with Kooper to get to the switch faster after battle.

Against the Bill Blasters, I don't think it's worth it to use a battle item.  Simply First Strike with Bombette, use a Power Jump/Bomb combo the first round, and finish off with a Hammer/Body Slam the second round.  Or, you could let the Bullet Bill simply hit Mario -- is it faster?

The Trojan Koopa/Koopa Bros. battle should be four rounds, provided you choose FP for your earlier level up:
1: Power Jump + Bomb
2: Power Jump + switch to Kooper
3: Shell Toss, then untimed jump
4: Fire Flower + Power Shell

Hope this helps!

EDIT:

[quote]70 people helping her for the next run of paper mario against 1 for the ancient (5:04)run!!! obiously unfair!

i wanted to start a new run of it, with like 16 segments instead. i dunno if i will do it... hey i do nothing today omg XD i begin right now[/quote]

Hey, I didn't know about Speed Demos Archive back then!

Instead of competing with another runner, why not try a different run?  Single segment might be a bit much, but there is min% and 100% (although, since Chuck Quizmo alone adds at least an hour, it may not be possible).