Paper Mario (N64) Discussion and Planning Sub-4:40

Jacob91

Edit history:

Jacob91: 2006-06-27 11:05:39 am

2006-01-18 02:14:12 pm

Sub-4Is it just me, or is the speed run we have VERY outdated Huh?

I have got 5:10 in a single-segment without ANY planning.
And why does he spin, jump, spin, jump?
it is seemingly faster to constantly spin.
Any segment ideas, thoughts, routes, items to get.. etc

Thread title:

StrangenessDSS

Edit history:

StrangenessDSS: 2006-01-18 02:59:32 pm

2006-01-18 02:58:05 pm

Sleeping Terror

I don't have much in the way of ideas, but I agree that the current run isn't very good. I didn't even watch the whole thing; I'm moderately familiar with the game, and I didn't see any interesting tricks or expert gameplay. I once started planning a better run, but quickly decided I didn't have the patience for a 4+ hour RPG.

A convenient quality of Paper Mario is that it's easy to forecast what will happen. Numbers are small and not much is random. With the amount you can segment it, any important randomness shouldn't be hard to manipulate. Unless you're doing a single-segment run, of course.

If you look at the current runner's comments, he didn't do much planning...

One thing I have wondered about is the damage potential of Triple Tap + damage items saved up throughout the run. It may be useful to take out the Crystal King and Bowser quickly once they start healing.

Jacob91

2006-01-18 03:53:52 pm

I agree that triple dip and shooting star would be a very useful combination to inflict 18 damage in one of mario's cycles. 4 Hrs and 50 minutes is my goal for this run.
At least.

Bp_

2006-01-18 04:23:06 pm

in 1 seg, pretty good Smiley

gl for it since its a good game but that I didnt paly enought Sad

Jacob91

2006-01-18 04:55:36 pm

I am not going to single segment this run unless For some reason multi segment is slower.

Jacob91

Edit history:

Jacob91: 2006-01-18 05:19:19 pm

2006-01-18 05:18:58 pm

Way to kill huff-n-puff fast

-Kill Huff-n-puff by equpping s.charge boots, Power plus, quick change and power bounce, Bow as partner. charge 3 turns while in cloud nine attacking with bow's smack the next two turns on the fourth turn, use power bounce, when lakilester's turn comes use spiny surge for the kill.
60 HP
2(boots)+4(charge)+4(charge)+4(charge)= 14+13+12+11=50 HP
Smack=6x2=12
Spiny surge=4
Total damage= 66
He will probably heal on turn 3 minus 6 hp
=60 hp and dead in fastest time possible

I would like as much help as possible. Grin

Radix

Edit history:

Radix: 2006-01-18 06:12:22 pm

2006-01-18 06:12:06 pm

I'm addicted to games

Quote:

And why does he spin, jump, spin, jump?
it is MUCH, MUCH faster to constantly spin.

Uh, how do you figure? At the end of the spin you stop for a moment to "recover" before you can move again. By spinning and then jumping before that, you don't lose time.

Jacob91

Edit history:

Jacob91: 2006-01-18 07:29:07 pm

2006-01-18 06:48:03 pm

Are YOU sure?
We might have different versions or something.
I just did the first segment and i am positive that
there is no downtime Higher than 0.1 sec between spin dashes, at least on my game.
Or maybe it's just because i rapidly smash Z all the time..

EDIT: I timed the traverse methods

Walking: 11:452
Jumping: 12:358
Spin jumping: 10:006
Spinning constant: 9:129
Speedy spin jumping: 8:261
Speedy spin constant: 7:055

As you can see, Jumping slows you down
Please, Try it yourself.

Edit; Lol i am sooo ditzy.

Jacob91

2006-01-18 06:50:09 pm

Why can't i see the video?
Where can i download the codecs to watch the paper mario videos to see if i beat the first three segment times?

Radix

2006-01-18 07:27:06 pm

I'm addicted to games

1) it's divx of course. the link is on EVERY PAGE
2) don't double post
3) you're jumping too soon. jump right before you would stall

Brown_Bomber

2006-01-18 07:45:40 pm

I love YaBB 1G - SP1!

THANK GOD. I knew I wasn't the only one who felt Wak's run was mediocre.

Here are some tips:

Against Tubba Blubba, if you have 15 or more HP, it's quicker to get hit by the Heart's first attack. Hanging on by 3 HP, wail on the heart until it charges, use Outta Sight, then use another Power Jump for the win. Use another Power Jump + Smack to defeat Tubba Blubba (assuming you powered up Bow and have 15 FP).

-Please use Action Commands all the time (I'm assuming you would, I just don't want to see them missed every Chapter).

-Try getting 8 coins for a Fire Flower in the Koopa Village. This way, you can OHKO the Bullet Bill Blasters before the Koopa Bros. PLease Power Jump on the fake Bowser as well.

I'll have more later, I did some tests on a rom in a casual run earlier. Good luck!

trihex

2006-01-18 09:25:35 pm

Yoshi's eggs are at my mercy!

w00t! I'm glad to hear all of this. I can't wait. Wink

Bulblax

2006-01-18 10:36:01 pm

hi

At one point in that run Power Jumping and using the hammer both would inflict the same damage (I think it was the fake bowser, I don't remember), and he used power jump.

I agree, that run could use improvement. And WHY so many segments? x_x I didn't even bother to download Superstar Saga when I saw that...even one guy did like Luigi's Mansion in 11 segments...

You probably waste more time saving than undoing little mistakes anyway...

FuriKuri

2006-01-18 10:41:00 pm

Ride on shooting star

Quote:

I agree, that run could use improvement. And WHY so many segments? x_x I didn't even bother to download Superstar Saga when I saw that

To be fair, Superstar Saga was a no-damage run, so one mis-timed jump or hammer and he would've had to restart the whole segment over.

Bulblax

2006-01-19 02:01:37 am

hi

oh alright I didn't see that <_<

yeah I can understand that being many segments then.

Brown_Bomber

2006-01-19 04:29:27 am

I love YaBB 1G - SP1!

As for Huff N. Puff, don't even attack with Bow; having all the little Tuff Puffs attack wastes time and costs you more damage. Just keep out Lakelister (sp), use Cloud Nine, charge, then Power Bounce five times instead of four. Skipping Quick Change saves time as well.

The only badges you need are Power Jump, Power Bounce, Super Jump Charge, Fire Shield, Defend Plus, Damage Dodge, Spike Shield, and Speedy Spin. Period.

Pick up Thunder Bolt before the Koopa Bros. fortress. Get two Snowman Dolls before Lava Pirahna.

Here are more boss strategies:

Tutankoopa: Have Parkarray powered up and 15 FP. Use Power Jump and Shell Shot for the first two rounds, inflicting 20 damage. Use regular Jump and sky dive attacks, doing 5 more damage. When Parkarray is knocked out by the magic attack, use Thunder Bolt for 5 damage and the win. GG Tutankoopa.

General Guy: Have Watt out for the whole battle. Use Power Jump and Electro Shock on the first wave of Shy Guys, then Jump and Electro Shock to eliminate the two. When the Stilt Guys come out, use Star Shower to OHKO both Stilt Guys. When the Stack Guys come out, use Power Jump and Electro Shock to kill one stack, then repeat for the next stack.
When General Guy finally comes out, use Power Jump and Electro Shock. Use Whacka's Bump and Electro Shock for next round. Next two rounds, use Power Jump and Electro Shock. Final round, use Electro Shock for the kill. (32 damage)

Lava Pirahna: If played right, you won't take ANY damage. Have Damage Dodge, Fire Shield, Defend Plus equipped. Have Bow as your partner, Ultra Ranked. Use Chill Out while Bow uses Smack. Defend, and you'll take no damage. (7-3-4 = 0). Use Power Jump and Smack for three turns, and you'll take out the first form. When the second form comes out, have Mario use Snowman Doll while Bow uses Smack. When the Lava Pirahna's knocked out, use Power Jump and Smack on the Pirahna. When the Pirahna revives, use Snowman Doll and Smack again, then finish the Pirahna off with a jump next round for exactly 40 damage.

More will come in the future.

As for Huff N. Puff, don't even attack with Bow; having all the little Tuff Puffs attack wastes time and costs you more damage. Just keep out Lakelister (sp), use Cloud Nine, charge, then Power Bounce five times instead of four. Skipping Quick Change saves time as well.

The only badges you need are Power Jump, Power Bounce, Super Jump Charge, Fire Shield, Defend Plus, Damage Dodge, Spike Shield, and Speedy Spin. Period.

Pick up Thunder Bolt before the Koopa Bros. fortress. Get two Snowman Dolls before Lava Pirahna.

Here are more boss strategies:

Tutankoopa: Have Parkarray powered up and 15 FP. Use Power Jump and Shell Shot for the first two rounds, inflicting 20 damage. Use regular Jump and sky dive attacks, doing 5 more damage. When Parkarray is knocked out by the magic attack, use Thunder Bolt for 5 damage and the win. GG Tutankoopa.

General Guy: Have Watt out for the whole battle. Use Power Jump and Electro Shock on the first wave of Shy Guys, then Jump and Electro Shock to eliminate the two. When the Stilt Guys come out, use Star Shower to OHKO both Stilt Guys. When the Stack Guys come out, use Power Jump and Electro Shock to kill one stack, then repeat for the next stack. 
When General Guy finally comes out, use Power Jump and Electro Shock. Use Whacka's Bump and Electro Shock for next round. Next two rounds, use Power Jump and Electro Shock. Final round, use Electro Shock for the kill. (32 damage)

Lava Pirahna: If played right, you won't take ANY damage. Have Damage Dodge, Fire Shield, Defend Plus equipped. Have Bow as your partner, Ultra Ranked. Use Chill Out while Bow uses Smack. Defend, and you'll take no damage. (7-3-4 = 0). Use Power Jump and Smack for three turns, and you'll take out the first form. When the second form comes out, have Mario use Snowman Doll while Bow uses Smack. When the Lava Pirahna's knocked out, use Power Jump and Smack on the Pirahna. When the Pirahna revives, use Snowman Doll and Smack again, then finish the Pirahna off with a jump next round for exactly 40 damage.

More will come in the future.

Wak

(user is banned)

2006-01-19 05:01:24 am

i agree, i had a bunch of improvisation in my run (beginning to the end, in fact) and it was mostly to set a bar to this wonderful game. i would be glad to see a sub 4:50.

and yes, spin jump is faster than just spin >______________>

for the 52 parts, it was because i was improvising >________> and because i was on a hurry, finishing my first whole game run was for me really cool... anyway. improve it if you want, i could also help you to find out some new sequence break and improvisations. there's a bunch of them

WingedKitsune

Radix

Edit history:

Radix: 2006-01-19 05:58:14 am

2006-01-19 05:55:46 am

I love YaBB 1G - SP1!

Well, I have a segment idea. Don't make it like 50+ segments, that bugged me when I downloaded the previous run.

I had to sit here for over an hour downloading all of those Segments, so I could get it done before I went to bed that night.

The fewer segments, the better.

I own both Paper Mario games, and I know for the fact Jumping repeatedly is faster than running, since they got rid of the Spin Dash.

I wouldn't mind seeing someone kill Anti-Matter Guy, or whatever the hell he's called in Shy-Guy Toybox.

Well, just my thoughts.

Radix

Edit history:

Radix: 2006-01-19 05:58:23 am

2006-01-19 05:58:03 am

I'm addicted to games

Kitsune, stop writing in color

illuminated

2006-01-19 05:59:37 am

I don't see any color. Um...are you feeling okay?

Creuil MS6

2006-01-19 06:10:47 am

Heaven or Hell! Let's Rock!

Quote:

I don't see any color. Um...are you feeling okay?

before your post,his text was pink!

illuminated

2006-01-19 06:12:48 am

Oh. Man, why would he do that? Oh never mind...

WingedKitsune

2006-01-19 06:29:15 am

I love YaBB 1G - SP1!

I am not a HE..I am a FEMALE.. -.-

And why have color options if you can't use them? -.-

illuminated

Edit history:

illuminated: 2006-01-19 06:37:46 am

2006-01-19 06:31:51 am

Quote:

I am not a HE..I am a FEMALE.. -.-

Oh. Sorry, didn't know.

Floogal

Edit history:

Floogal: 2006-01-19 08:14:25 am

2006-01-19 08:13:19 am

Quote:

Tutankoopa: Have Parkarray powered up and 15 FP. Use Power Jump and Shell Shot for the first two rounds, inflicting 20 damage. Use regular Jump and sky dive attacks, doing 5 more damage. When Parkarray is knocked out by the magic attack, use Thunder Bolt for 5 damage and the win. GG Tutankoopa.

If you have 15 FP, you can do 3 Power Jump-Shell Shot combos in a row and KO Tutankoopa before he even uses his magic attack. Also, Parakarry can block the magic attack. Every partner-hitting attack in the game can be blocked.

I have been playing this game a lot recently (on emulator; I don't own the cart). It seems to me that the fastest way to beat most of the bosses is to abuse the Mega Rush + Power Bounce combination.

For example, against Tubba Blubba, start the battle with 1 HP (repeatedly jump on the spikes in his castle; in this run, there should probably be no HP level ups). He always charges up on his first turn, and a five-hit power bounce does 20 HP damage (6 + 5 + 4 + 3 + 2). Do this twice, follow-up with a quick shell shot from Parakarry (Tubba's Heart only needs 45 HP damage to run away), and he's beat in two rounds at the cost of 9 FP. Best of all, you can then OHKO Tubba Blubba with a simple jump attack.

For later bosses, abuse luck with the Close Call badge if necessary, sometimes using selective blocking. For example, against Jr. Troopa #5 (in the snow; has an attack power of eight), cast Chill Out. His attacks then do 5 damage, and if Mario blocks one attack and not the other, he will be left with 1 HP on the third round with which to inflict heavy damage (close call or Outta Sight can allow him to attack twice with this super power).

Don't bother with the Power Rush badge. Besides being quite a detour, it does not activate when the Mega Rush badge is activated (i.e. if both are equipped, Mario has a +4 attack at 1 HP, not a +6 attack).

Also, how good are you at Tidal Wave? If I try, I can only get 6-7 damage consistently, but by randomly spamming buttons I have managed to get 12 damage several times. With slow-down on an emulator, I don't think it's possible to get more than 13 damage (the next button prompt is off-screen anyways). If you could exploit this, it would be worthwhile as just as a single attack for bosses.

Bow's spook attack is good to consider for non-bosses, since it defeats them quickly and costs little. Of course, you don't get star-points, and it requires really good timing to be accurate against some enemies (it always fails if the enemies have a status ailment).

In order to plan when you get your level-ups, use this site (Warning! Big page!): http://www.rpgclassics.com/shrines/n64/papermario/starpoints.shtml

I have been considering planning a speed run for this game sometime later (for myself, not to send in), so my ideas are not fully formed yet. But feel free to ask me some questions!

[quote]
Tutankoopa: Have Parkarray powered up and 15 FP. Use Power Jump and Shell Shot for the first two rounds, inflicting 20 damage. Use regular Jump and sky dive attacks, doing 5 more damage. When Parkarray is knocked out by the magic attack, use Thunder Bolt for 5 damage and the win. GG Tutankoopa.
[/quote]

If you have 15 FP, you can do 3 Power Jump-Shell Shot combos in a row and KO Tutankoopa before he even uses his magic attack.  Also, Parakarry can block the magic attack.  Every partner-hitting attack in the game can be blocked.

I have been playing this game a lot recently (on emulator; I don't own the cart).  It seems to me that the fastest way to beat most of the bosses is to abuse the Mega Rush + Power Bounce combination.

For example, against Tubba Blubba, start the battle with 1 HP (repeatedly jump on the spikes in his castle; in this run, there should probably be no HP level ups).  He always charges up on his first turn, and a five-hit power bounce does 20 HP damage (6 + 5 + 4 + 3 + 2).  Do this twice, follow-up with a quick shell shot from Parakarry (Tubba's Heart only needs 45 HP damage to run away), and he's beat in two rounds at the cost of 9 FP.  Best of all, you can then OHKO Tubba Blubba with a simple jump attack.

For later bosses, abuse luck with the Close Call badge if necessary, sometimes using selective blocking.  For example, against Jr. Troopa #5 (in the snow; has an attack power of eight), cast Chill Out.  His attacks then do 5 damage, and if Mario blocks one attack and not the other, he will be left with 1 HP on the third round with which to inflict heavy damage (close call or Outta Sight can allow him to attack twice with this super power).

Don't bother with the Power Rush badge.  Besides being quite a detour, it does not activate when the Mega Rush badge is activated (i.e. if both are equipped, Mario has a +4 attack at 1 HP, not a +6 attack).

Also, how good are you at Tidal Wave?  If I try, I can only get 6-7 damage consistently, but by randomly spamming buttons I have managed to get 12 damage several times.  With slow-down on an emulator, I don't think it's possible to get more than 13 damage (the next button prompt is off-screen anyways).  If you could exploit this, it would be worthwhile as just as a single attack for bosses.

Bow's spook attack is good to consider for non-bosses, since it defeats them quickly and costs little.  Of course, you don't get star-points, and it requires really good timing to be accurate against some enemies (it always fails if the enemies have a status ailment).

In order to plan when you get your level-ups, use this site (Warning!  Big page!): http://www.rpgclassics.com/shrines/n64/papermario/starpoints.shtml

I have been considering planning a speed run for this game sometime later (for myself, not to send in), so my ideas are not fully formed yet.  But feel free to ask me some questions!