Ogre Battle: March of the Black Queen

ZenicReverie

2013-02-10 09:46:25 pm

Waiting hurts my soul...

You talk about losing towns to get rep down, but doesn't capturing towns with low ali units lower rep as well?

Dragondarch

2013-02-11 04:13:34 am

Pudding%

I looked over my notes, and ended up re-routing 100% a bit. It's a long post, and I started falling asleep while typing it tonight, so I'll finish it tomorrow.
All I'm going to say is that I have a very fast way of tanking your REP, and a near-guaranteed way of getting it back up after.

Brootus

2013-02-11 03:05:11 pm

That would be amazing, dragondarch!

Would save me a ton of time just experimenting with things and I could spend more time on perfecting the routes and navigation of menus.

and yes, Zenic, it does, but I go through the game quickly with 1 unit that is always under-leveled. Which basically means I never get low ali on any units. If you start the game as 3-slice/ianuki OL your army after you get warren has lots of beastmen, who have low ali. and once you get gilbert (level 3) you get 2 wyverns, which have low ali. So i could make a couple town-liberating units with some-what low (around 45) ali and have them tank rep quickly by taking the towns with "high" "high". The thing I'd be worried about is running out of towns to liberate after I tank my rep to re-raise it. (In the run I'm working on now, I need to take about 20 towns)

So that's a good idea and I will experiment with it. Although at this point I'm kinda hoping Dragondarch has some brilliant trick that will result in a fast rep-tanking and a re-raising tactic that doesnt involve just liberating towns of past-beaten levels. It's just so boring to do that and this game isn't the most exciting speed-run ever attempted just by how the game is designed (although... I find it exciting.. obviously Wink

)

Thanks for the activity on this post btw, guys. As I'm sure you all know, working towards a speedrun is pretty exhausting and at times demoralizing, so it's nice to know that there is at least some interest in me actually completing this =)

That would be amazing, dragondarch!

Would save me a ton of time just experimenting with things and I could spend more time on perfecting the routes and navigation of menus.

and yes, Zenic, it does, but I go through the game quickly with 1 unit that is always under-leveled. Which basically means I never get low ali on any units.  If you start the game as 3-slice/ianuki OL your army after you get warren has lots of beastmen, who have low ali. and once you get gilbert (level 3) you get 2 wyverns, which have low ali.  So i could make a couple town-liberating units with some-what low (around 45) ali and have them tank rep quickly by taking the towns with "high" "high".  The thing I'd be worried about is running out of towns to liberate after I tank my rep to re-raise it.  (In the run I'm working on now, I need to take about 20 towns)

So that's a good idea and I will experiment with it.  Although at this point I'm kinda hoping Dragondarch has some brilliant trick that will result in a fast rep-tanking and a re-raising tactic that doesnt involve just liberating towns of past-beaten levels.  It's just so boring to do that and this game isn't the most exciting speed-run ever attempted just by how the game is designed (although... I find it exciting.. obviously ;)   )

Thanks for the activity on this post btw, guys.  As I'm sure you all know, working towards a speedrun is pretty exhausting and at times demoralizing, so it's nice to know that there is at least some interest in me actually completing this =)

Dragondarch

2013-02-12 01:21:44 am

Pudding%

OK, Loooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooong post incoming.

I just looked over my notes, then re-did the 100% route. It's primarily aimed for segmented, but I'll try to alter it here for your single segment route.
Since I haven't seen any of your runs, I have no idea what kind of leveling you do (if any), or any other specific party combinations, etc.

First things first:
http://www.gamefaqs.com/boards/588541-ogre-battle-the-march-of-the-black-queen/54266112
That's a GFAQs thread with a LOT of game mechanics info, from people who've gone in and looked at the code. I recommend giving it a read.

Character Creation
-You want a Fool card, but I'm sure you already know that. There's actually an optimal set of cards you can get (I have a save file with this exact set of cards which I'll be using for both any% and 100% segmented). Justice, Fool, Magician, Judgement, Priestess, Devil, then for your pick it will the first card, which will be World. Not only are all the cards here useful, but picking World at the end allows for some pretty nice STR and INT to start with (World can give up to +7 STR and INT over base lord stats).
-For the actual Lord unit, Female actually has a slight advantage over Male, but it's minor enough to not be an issue with the route I have (Female has a slightly lower REP requirement for Norn joining, but that's pretty much it). Type should Iainuki. The other lords are nice, but since most of your damage is going to be directed at bosses, their AoE attacks are kind of wasted.

Castle of Warren
-Not much to say here. Liberate Zeltenia and get Lans, then kill Warren. Hope for a good Card from the liberation.
-After the stage, gut the Opinion Leader's unit, and also disband Lans' and Warren's units. Add Lans, Warren, and a Gryphon to the Opinion Leader's Unit (which from here on be referred to as "OL"). Also create a group with one of the Wizards from Lans' unit and your other Gryphon. This will be your Liberation Unit (which will be "LB").

Sharom
-Send OL to the Treasure on the island in the center of the map, and LB to the NE Temple for the Herostar. Treasure is still important for single segment runs, even if you can't rely on getting top notch equipment. Mainly, you want elements. Black, Fire, and Electric are primarily what you'll need out of drops, since you'll be getting Brunhild for White. An extra White weapon would certainly be helpful though.
-After obtaining the Treasure, send OL to Jindark.

Sharom District
-This can be done with 2 units pretty easy, without losing any cities or getting in to any normal fights if you're lucky.
-Send OL to Bah'Wahl, and LB to Latingurue. Don't command OL to land directly on Bah'Wahl though, since it'll take longer for LB to reach Latingurue.
-Once LB has liberated Latingurue, OL immediately liberates Bah'Wahl.
-Once OL is done talking to Canopus, send it to the Treasure on the island south of it. Quickly switch back to LB and have it step on Latingurue again, then quickly send it to Bah'Wahl. With any luck, the enemy won't retake Latingurue.
-After obtaining the Treasure, send OL to the Hidden Temple in the SW. OL should get there before LB gets to Bah'Wahl.
-Once you have Canopus, send OL to Parcival.
-After the stage, swap out Lans for Gilbert, and your Gryphon for one of Gilbert's Wyrms. Put Lans and your old Gryphon in their own group. This will be Liberation Group 2 (LB2).
-Note that you could choose Canopus if you want the higher AGI. I'm not sure which you'd consider more useful for single segment. For segmented, I would only change out the Gryphon for the Wyrm, and would have Gilbert be LB2.

Lake Jannenia
-Send OL to Elsrum. There's nothing else to do in this stage unless you REALLY want the Rune Axe, in which case send LB to the East Temple.

Pogrom Forest
-Send OL to the Treasure in the center of the map, and LB to Para. It's actually slightly better to send LB slightly south of Para so they don't walk over Alagoyas and waste time "discovering" it. Para is important to liberate now since you'll need to come back to it later on.
-After the Treasure, send OL to Goyas.

Slums of Zenobia
-Skipping Deneb's Garden is intentional. There's no need to do it now, since you'll just be prolonging the fight with lower level units.
-Send OL to Anberg, and LB to the Treasure south of By'Roit. After the Treasure, LB heads to By'Roit.
-After By'Roit, send LB to the Treasure west of By'Roit, and after Anberg send OL to Zenobia.
-If you feel you need Jokers at this point, send LB2 out to liberate Fillia at the start.
-After the stage, replace Gilbert/Canopus with Lyon, and class change him to Ninja.

Island Avalon
-Send OL to the Center Temple, then head to Amad. Nothing else to do here.
-After the stage, replace Warren with Aisha and change her to Valkyrie...Warren's INT will be sorely lacking at this point, and the next 2 bosses are both weak to Electric.

Kastolatian Sea
-Send OL to Palmirra, and LB to the NW Temple for the Brunhild. That's literally it for this stage.
-Fun fact, you only need 35 REP to get Brunhild. Seriously.

Balmorian Ruins
-Send OL to the Treasure NW of Shik'Ahny, LB to Wan Kayo, and LB2 to the Treasure SW of wallas.
-After obtaining their respective Treasures, send OL near the North Temple and wait until you have the Bell to move onto it, and send LB near Kalyao, and wait for Wan Kayo to be liberated.
-Once LB liberates Wan Kayo, move LB2 onto Kalyao, then move OL onto the Temple. After that, send OL to Balmoa
-After the stage, replace Aisha with Saradin, of course. Class Saradin down to a Wizard. You want 2 attacks per turn, not 1.

City of Malano
-Send OL to Bel Chelry, and LB to Sanbelnar. Sanbelnar's necessary for later. If you're feeling ballsy, you could try and get a Treasure with LB after Sanbelnar.
-After Bel Chelry, send OL to Malano.
-After the stage, replace Lyon with Tristan. Tristan will be with you the rest of the game.

Diaspola
-Another stage requiring 3 groups. Send OL to Ajan, LB to the Treasure NE of Pelegue, and LB2 to Anglem. Anglem is crucial for later.
-After Ajan, send OL to Somyul, and after the Treasure send LB to the SW Temple. If done right OL should reach Somyul just before LB reaches the Temple.
-Once you have the Beehive, send LB to Raloshel, and have OL step on Somyul again for the Sentoul. Then send OL to Diaspola.
-LB should reach Raloshel before OL reaches Diaspola. Have LB buy the BOUGH and some BOOTS. You need a total of 16 BOOTS for the entire run, but you'll be revisiting this stage twice more, so you can visit the shop at those times too (but it will cost one extra BOOTS each time). There's only 3 amounts you should buy, depending on when you'll need to visit the shop again. Buy 2 if Goth is super tight and you'll be visiting it again the next time you come here. 14 if you don't need it the next time you're here. 16 if you can afford all of them right now.

Pogrom Forest
-Use the BOOTS to send OL to Para, and obtain the Silver.

Deneb's Garden
-Send OL to Valparine. With this party, her group shouldn't even get a turn.

Kalbian Peninsula
-Send OL to the Treasure on the Island in the West.
-After that send OL to the Treasure North of Kalbia.
-Finally send OL to Kalbia.

Antalia
-Send OL to the Chaos Gate, and LB to Yushis' Temple.
-After the Chaos Gate, send OL to the Treasure SW of it.
-After the Treasure, send OL to Kander Hall.

Diaspola
-If you only bought 2 Boots before, BOOTS to Raloshel and buy 13 more BOOTS.
-Whether you visited the shop or not, now BOOTS OL to Anglem.
-Every time you refuse to give Borgnine the Sentoul you have, you'll lose 5 REP. This is repeatable. You should be at 100 REP coming in here, so refuse it 11 times. You're now at 45 REP.

Deneb's Garden
-BOOTS OL to Valparine. Accept Deneb's request, and this should cause another 5 REP drop (now at 40 REP).
-Step on Valparine again, and give Deneb the Bough. She should offer to join, if my calculations are correct. Deneb actually only requires 40 or less REP to join, not 33 or 30 or whatever most of the FAQs say. You also suffer another 5 REP drop.

Antangyl
-Deploy Yushis' group, and make the leader someone else, then switch Yushis in to OL. Note that for Segmented, I wouldn't be touching Yushis, but in your case it's best to take any advantage you can get.
-Send OL to Antangeel. That's it. Beating a stage nets you 5 REP, plus or minus whatever the change is for liberating the Boss' city. With your group, you should hopefully be gaining REP for doing this.

The Tundra
-Switch Saradin in for Yushis.
-Send OL to the Treasure East of Balleny.
-After that, send OL to Valhalla.

Shangrila
-Switch Yushis back on to OL.
-Send OL to Shellmat, and buy more Jokers if you need them. Otherwise, skip this.
-Send OL to Shangrila. You lose 2 REP for letting Debonair join, but gain 5 for beating the stage. Net gain.

Fort Allamoot
-I haven't tested if this is possible with one group yet, so plan on possibly needing two if one isn't possible.
-Send OL to the Chaos Gate, then Allamoot.
-Only Castor needs to be killed here. I actually didn't know this for the longest time. As long as Castor dies, even if you lose the battle, you still complete the map.

Dalmuhd Desert
-Send OL to Kahrngarn, and LB to Aliabard.
-After Kahrngarn, send OL to Hormzussa. If you're feeling brave, try and get the Treasure on the island in the middle of the lake. Hopefully Kahrngarn doesn't get taken from you.
-Immediately after finishing the stage, return to it, and BOOTS OL to Aliabard to get the Doun Gem.

Pogrom Forest
-BOOTS OL to Para to get the Olden Orb.

Rhyan Sea
-Untested whether you can get away with only one group here or not. Plan for one or two groups.
-Send OL to Ramoto, then to Salarn.
-Immediately after finishing the stage, return and BOOTS OL to Ramoto for the True Gem.

Shrine of Kulyn
-Switch out Yushis for Saradin.
-Send OL to Creun. There's nothing else to do here.

City of Xanadu
-Send OL to Xanadu.

Fort Shulamana
-If your REP is under 65, do Zeteginea first to raise it more. Otherwise do this one to avoid two extra character swaps.
-Send OL to Shulamana. Obtain Armband.

Zeteginea
-Switch out Saradin for Yushis. If you do this before Shulamana, leave Saradin in the party.
-Send OL to Zeteginea. Gotta love how the final few stages have zero sidequests, eh?

Shangrila
-BOOTS OL to Shangrila for the Tablet of Yaru.
-After that, walk to the Center Temple for the Sapphire.

Dalmuhd Desert
-BOOTS OL to Kahrngarn, then walk to the Temple for the Amethyst.

Ruined City
-If you still have Saradin in the party, switch him out for Yushis. This should be the last character swap.
-This is untested, but send OL to Alshabi.
-After that, OL heads to Shiggult.
-Return to the stage afterward and BOOTS to Alshabi, then walk to the NE Temple for the Diamond. Note that the time spent liberating Alshabi may be more than the time it would take to just walk to the Temple after finishing the stage, so this still needs testing.

The Tundra
-BOOTS OL to Valhalla, then walk to the North Temple for the Turquoise.

City of Malano
-BOOTS OL to Sanbelnar for the Ruby.

Valley of Kastro
-Untested on whether this is possible with only one group.
-Send OL to the Chaos Gate.
-After that, send OL to Rauny's Temple.
-Lastly, OL heads to Tash Kent. Fight should be a joke.

Muspelm
-OL heads to the Chaos Gate.
-Then OL heads to Muspelm.
-After finishing the stage, pop back in and BOOTS to Muspelm, then walk to the Temple south of it for the Peridot.

Organa
-OL heads to Organa. That's it.
-After completeing the stage, OL walks to the SE Temple for the Ginger Cake.

Island Avalon
-OL walks to the Center Temple for the Emerald.

Lake Jannenia
-OL BOOTS to Elsrum, the walks to the East Temple for the Opal.

Slums of Zenobia
-OL walks to the Center Temple for the Garnet.

Diaspola
-If you still need BOOTS, this is the time to buy them. BOOTS OL to Raloshel to buy the remaining few you'll need.
-If you didn't use the shop, BOOTS to Ajan, and get the Aquamarine. If you did use it, BOOTS to Somyul for the Pearl.
-BOOTS to whichever town you didn't do first, and get the stone you don't have.

Rhyan Sea
-OL walks to the South Temple for the Topaz.

Shrine of Kulyn
-OL BOOTS to Creun for the Grail.
-We now have everything required for the World Ending, alongside 17/18 characters, and all but the final map completed.

Temple Shalina
-You know what to do here. Get to it.

With all that said, I'm sure for single segment there may be a few differences in the route. Most likely the item roundup at the end, since I have no idea how much Goth you have when you reach Diaspola the first and second times, nor how early you'll need Jokers. If Goth is tight the first two times you hit Diaspola, do Valley of Kastro/Muspelm/Organa sooner in the item roundup so you can hit Diaspola sooner. This will allow you to buy less BOOTS earlier on, saving Goth for other items.

OK, Loooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooong post incoming.

I just looked over my notes, then re-did the 100% route. It's primarily aimed for segmented, but I'll try to alter it here for your single segment route.
Since I haven't seen any of your runs, I have no idea what kind of leveling you do (if any), or any other specific party combinations, etc.

First things first:
[url]http://www.gamefaqs.com/boards/588541-ogre-battle-the-march-of-the-black-queen/54266112[/url]
That's a GFAQs thread with a LOT of game mechanics info, from people who've gone in and looked at the code. I recommend giving it a read.

[b]Character Creation[/b]
-You want a Fool card, but I'm sure you already know that. There's actually an optimal set of cards you can get (I have a save file with this exact set of cards which I'll be using for both any% and 100% segmented). Justice, Fool, Magician, Judgement, Priestess, Devil, then for your pick it will the first card, which will be World. Not only are all the cards here useful, but picking World at the end allows for some pretty nice STR and INT to start with (World can give up to +7 STR and INT over base lord stats).
-For the actual Lord unit, Female actually has a slight advantage over Male, but it's minor enough to not be an issue with the route I have (Female has a slightly lower REP requirement for Norn joining, but that's pretty much it). Type should Iainuki. The other lords are nice, but since most of your damage is going to be directed at bosses, their AoE attacks are kind of wasted.

[b]Castle of Warren[/b]
-Not much to say here. Liberate Zeltenia and get Lans, then kill Warren. Hope for a good Card from the liberation.
-After the stage, gut the Opinion Leader's unit, and also disband Lans' and Warren's units. Add Lans, Warren, and a Gryphon to the Opinion Leader's Unit (which from here on be referred to as "OL"). Also create a group with one of the Wizards from Lans' unit and your other Gryphon. This will be your Liberation Unit (which will be "LB").

[b]Sharom[/b]
-Send OL to the Treasure on the island in the center of the map, and LB to the NE Temple for the Herostar. Treasure is still important for single segment runs, even if you can't rely on getting top notch equipment. Mainly, you want elements. Black, Fire, and Electric are primarily what you'll need out of drops, since you'll be getting Brunhild for White. An extra White weapon would certainly be helpful though.
-After obtaining the Treasure, send OL to Jindark.

[b]Sharom District[/b]
-This can be done with 2 units pretty easy, without losing any cities or getting in to any normal fights if you're lucky.
-Send OL to Bah'Wahl, and LB to Latingurue. Don't command OL to land directly on Bah'Wahl though, since it'll take longer for LB to reach Latingurue.
-Once LB has liberated Latingurue, OL immediately liberates Bah'Wahl.
-Once OL is done talking to Canopus, send it to the Treasure on the island south of it. Quickly switch back to LB and have it step on Latingurue again, then quickly send it to Bah'Wahl. With any luck, the enemy won't retake Latingurue.
-After obtaining the Treasure, send OL to the Hidden Temple in the SW. OL [i]should[/i] get there before LB gets to Bah'Wahl.
-Once you have Canopus, send OL to Parcival.
-After the stage, swap out Lans for Gilbert, and your Gryphon for one of Gilbert's Wyrms. Put Lans and your old Gryphon in their own group. This will be Liberation Group 2 (LB2).
-Note that you could choose Canopus if you want the higher AGI. I'm not sure which you'd consider more useful for single segment. For segmented, I would only change out the Gryphon for the Wyrm, and would have Gilbert be LB2.

[b]Lake Jannenia[/b]
-Send OL to Elsrum. There's nothing else to do in this stage unless you REALLY want the Rune Axe, in which case send LB to the East Temple.

[b]Pogrom Forest[/b]
-Send OL to the Treasure in the center of the map, and LB to Para. It's actually slightly better to send LB slightly south of Para so they don't walk over Alagoyas and waste time "discovering" it. Para is important to liberate now since you'll need to come back to it later on.
-After the Treasure, send OL to Goyas.

[b]Slums of Zenobia[/b]
-Skipping Deneb's Garden is intentional. There's no need to do it now, since you'll just be prolonging the fight with lower level units.
-Send OL to Anberg, and LB to the Treasure south of By'Roit. After the Treasure, LB heads to By'Roit.
-After By'Roit, send LB to the Treasure west of By'Roit, and after Anberg send OL to Zenobia.
-If you feel you need Jokers at this point, send LB2 out to liberate Fillia at the start.
-After the stage, replace Gilbert/Canopus with Lyon, and class change him to Ninja.

[b]Island Avalon[/b]
-Send OL to the Center Temple, then head to Amad. Nothing else to do here.
-After the stage, replace Warren with Aisha and change her to Valkyrie...Warren's INT will be sorely lacking at this point, and the next 2 bosses are both weak to Electric.

[b]Kastolatian Sea[/b]
-Send OL to Palmirra, and LB to the NW Temple for the Brunhild. That's literally it for this stage.
-Fun fact, you only need 35 REP to get Brunhild. Seriously.

[b]Balmorian Ruins[/b]
-Send OL to the Treasure NW of Shik'Ahny, LB to Wan Kayo, and LB2 to the Treasure SW of wallas.
-After obtaining their respective Treasures, send OL near the North Temple and wait until you have the Bell to move onto it, and send LB near Kalyao, and wait for Wan Kayo to be liberated.
-Once LB liberates Wan Kayo, move LB2 onto Kalyao, then move OL onto the Temple. After that, send OL to Balmoa
-After the stage, replace Aisha with Saradin, of course. Class Saradin down to a Wizard. You want 2 attacks per turn, not 1.

[b]City of Malano[/b]
-Send OL to Bel Chelry, and LB to Sanbelnar. Sanbelnar's necessary for later. If you're feeling ballsy, you could try and get a Treasure with LB after Sanbelnar.
-After Bel Chelry, send OL to Malano.
-After the stage, replace Lyon with Tristan. Tristan will be with you the rest of the game.

[b]Diaspola[/b]
-Another stage requiring 3 groups. Send OL to Ajan, LB to the Treasure NE of Pelegue, and LB2 to Anglem. Anglem is crucial for later.
-After Ajan, send OL to Somyul, and after the Treasure send LB to the SW Temple. If done right OL [i]should[/i] reach Somyul just before LB reaches the Temple.
-Once you have the Beehive, send LB to Raloshel, and have OL step on Somyul again for the Sentoul. Then send OL to Diaspola.
-LB should reach Raloshel before OL reaches Diaspola. Have LB buy the BOUGH and some BOOTS. You need a total of 16 BOOTS for the entire run, but you'll be revisiting this stage twice more, so you can visit the shop at those times too (but it will cost one extra BOOTS each time). There's only 3 amounts you should buy, depending on when you'll need to visit the shop again. Buy 2 if Goth is super tight and you'll be visiting it again the next time you come here. 14 if you don't need it the next time you're here. 16 if you can afford all of them right now.

[b]Pogrom Forest[/b]
-Use the BOOTS to send OL to Para, and obtain the Silver.

[b]Deneb's Garden[/b]
-Send OL to Valparine. With this party, her group shouldn't even get a turn.

[b]Kalbian Peninsula[/b]
-Send OL to the Treasure on the Island in the West.
-After that send OL to the Treasure North of Kalbia.
-Finally send OL to Kalbia.

[b]Antalia[/b]
-Send OL to the Chaos Gate, and LB to Yushis' Temple.
-After the Chaos Gate, send OL to the Treasure SW of it.
-After the Treasure, send OL to Kander Hall.

[b]Diaspola[/b]
-If you only bought 2 Boots before, BOOTS to Raloshel and buy 13 more BOOTS.
-Whether you visited the shop or not, now BOOTS OL to Anglem.
-Every time you refuse to give Borgnine the Sentoul you have, you'll lose 5 REP. This is repeatable. You should be at 100 REP coming in here, so refuse it 11 times. You're now at 45 REP.

[b]Deneb's Garden[/b]
-BOOTS OL to Valparine. Accept Deneb's request, and this should cause another 5 REP drop (now at 40 REP).
-Step on Valparine again, and give Deneb the Bough. She [i]should[/i] offer to join, if my calculations are correct. Deneb actually only requires 40 or less REP to join, not 33 or 30 or whatever most of the FAQs say. You also suffer another 5 REP drop.

[b]Antangyl[/b]
-Deploy Yushis' group, and make the leader someone else, then switch Yushis in to OL. Note that for Segmented, I wouldn't be touching Yushis, but in your case it's best to take any advantage you can get.
-Send OL to Antangeel. That's it. Beating a stage nets you 5 REP, plus or minus whatever the change is for liberating the Boss' city. With your group, you should hopefully be [i]gaining[/i] REP for doing this.

[b]The Tundra[/b]
-Switch Saradin in for Yushis.
-Send OL to the Treasure East of Balleny.
-After that, send OL to Valhalla.

[b]Shangrila[/b]
-Switch Yushis back on to OL.
-Send OL to Shellmat, and buy more Jokers if you need them. Otherwise, skip this.
-Send OL to Shangrila. You lose 2 REP for letting Debonair join, but gain 5 for beating the stage. Net gain.

[b]Fort Allamoot[/b]
-I haven't tested if this is possible with one group yet, so plan on possibly needing two if one isn't possible.
-Send OL to the Chaos Gate, then Allamoot.
-Only Castor needs to be killed here. I actually didn't know this for the longest time. As long as Castor dies, even if you lose the battle, you still complete the map.

[b]Dalmuhd Desert[/b]
-Send OL to Kahrngarn, and LB to Aliabard.
-After Kahrngarn, send OL to Hormzussa. If you're feeling brave, try and get the Treasure on the island in the middle of the lake. Hopefully Kahrngarn doesn't get taken from you.
-Immediately after finishing the stage, return to it, and BOOTS OL to Aliabard to get the Doun Gem.

[b]Pogrom Forest[/b]
-BOOTS OL to Para to get the Olden Orb.

[b]Rhyan Sea[/b]
-Untested whether you can get away with only one group here or not. Plan for one or two groups.
-Send OL to Ramoto, then to Salarn.
-Immediately after finishing the stage, return and BOOTS OL to Ramoto for the True Gem.

[b]Shrine of Kulyn[/b]
-Switch out Yushis for Saradin.
-Send OL to Creun. There's nothing else to do here.

[b]City of Xanadu[/b]
-Send OL to Xanadu.

[b]Fort Shulamana[/b]
-If your REP is under 65, do Zeteginea first to raise it more. Otherwise do this one to avoid two extra character swaps.
-Send OL to Shulamana. Obtain Armband.

[b]Zeteginea[/b]
-Switch out Saradin for Yushis. If you do this before Shulamana, leave Saradin in the party.
-Send OL to Zeteginea. Gotta love how the final few stages have zero sidequests, eh?

[b]Shangrila[/b]
-BOOTS OL to Shangrila for the Tablet of Yaru.
-After that, walk to the Center Temple for the Sapphire.

[b]Dalmuhd Desert[/b]
-BOOTS OL to Kahrngarn, then walk to the Temple for the Amethyst.

[b]Ruined City[/b]
-If you still have Saradin in the party, switch him out for Yushis. This should be the last character swap.
-This is untested, but send OL to Alshabi.
-After that, OL heads to Shiggult.
-Return to the stage afterward and BOOTS to Alshabi, then walk to the NE Temple for the Diamond. Note that the time spent liberating Alshabi may be more than the time it would take to just walk to the Temple after finishing the stage, so this still needs testing.

[b]The Tundra[/b]
-BOOTS OL to Valhalla, then walk to the North Temple for the Turquoise.

[b]City of Malano[/b]
-BOOTS OL to Sanbelnar for the Ruby.

[b]Valley of Kastro[/b]
-Untested on whether this is possible with only one group.
-Send OL to the Chaos Gate.
-After that, send OL to Rauny's Temple.
-Lastly, OL heads to Tash Kent. Fight should be a joke.

[b]Muspelm[/b]
-OL heads to the Chaos Gate.
-Then OL heads to Muspelm.
-After finishing the stage, pop back in and BOOTS to Muspelm, then walk to the Temple south of it for the Peridot.

[b]Organa[/b]
-OL heads to Organa. That's it.
-After completeing the stage, OL walks to the SE Temple for the Ginger Cake.

[b]Island Avalon[/b]
-OL walks to the Center Temple for the Emerald.

[b]Lake Jannenia[/b]
-OL BOOTS to Elsrum, the walks to the East Temple for the Opal.

[b]Slums of Zenobia[/b]
-OL walks to the Center Temple for the Garnet.

[b]Diaspola[/b]
-If you still need BOOTS, this is the time to buy them. BOOTS OL to Raloshel to buy the remaining few you'll need.
-If you didn't use the shop, BOOTS to Ajan, and get the Aquamarine. If you did use it, BOOTS to Somyul for the Pearl.
-BOOTS to whichever town you didn't do first, and get the stone you don't have.

[b]Rhyan Sea[/b]
-OL walks to the South Temple for the Topaz.

[b]Shrine of Kulyn[/b]
-OL BOOTS to Creun for the Grail.
-We now have everything required for the World Ending, alongside 17/18 characters, and all but the final map completed.

[b]Temple Shalina[/b]
-You know what to do here. Get to it.

With all that said, I'm sure for single segment there may be a few differences in the route. Most likely the item roundup at the end, since I have no idea how much Goth you have when you reach Diaspola the first and second times, nor how early you'll need Jokers. If Goth is tight the first two times you hit Diaspola, do Valley of Kastro/Muspelm/Organa sooner in the item roundup so you can hit Diaspola sooner. This will allow you to buy less BOOTS earlier on, saving Goth for other items.

Brootus

2013-02-12 09:48:34 am

i did not know the refusal of sentoul demons tanked rep... that should help a lot!

Thanks for typing all that up. You're my hero!

I definitely do things really differently though. You are the master, so I suspect your route is better, but I'm going to make a run you can look at asap. It will be with emulator recorded on twitchtv (obviouly my actual submitted run will be the real console) but I don't have the stuff set up to record off of that yet, so i'll just do an emulator run for you to look at and compare.

Rather than re-work/re-learn the route you have, I'm gonna stick with mine and then you can look at it and we can compare routes!

Thanks again, Dragondarch!

~Brootus

Dragondarch

2013-02-12 08:36:01 pm

Pudding%

A video would be great. I've also got a spreadsheet here that has enemy stats, equipment listings, and lots of other good info. I'll upload it once I've finished updating some of the enemy defense calculations.

Brootus

2013-02-13 09:00:22 am

I've read up a lot about what's weak against what, but I dont see any other way to effectively do reliable damage besides wizards/valkyries. as far as front line units go, unless you've got fool cards or you're on the first 3 levels, it's pretty hard for them to get any hits off on the boss anyway. And sometimes with tarot cards, i end up having to use pretty "bad" cards on encounters sometimes for as little as 10 damage.

For items, I know which ones give int, which is basically the only stat i care about, but even so i skip a lot of the items (i really only get 3 'buried treasures' and that's just because they are on my way to certain liberations). Between the "find out" and going through the menus and equipping the damn things, I just dont find the items to really be worth it.
I end up getting a lich and a princess pretty early and once i do, they just take everything out regardless of resists, so items and things really start to not matter to me.

That being said, I'm sure you've uncovered many useful facts in your research that i'd love to take a look at!
I read that 20 page forum post you linked. I am a big ogre battle fan and I know pretty much all there is to know (except for the code... totally clueless on that stuff), but some of the things those people have tested was cracking me up. Like being able to delete Norn and still get world ending? Who tests these things???

Anyways... thanks for your continued help, Dragondarch.

~Brootus

I've read up a lot about what's weak against what, but I dont see any other way to effectively do reliable damage besides wizards/valkyries.  as far as front line units go, unless you've got fool cards or you're on the first 3 levels, it's pretty hard for them to get any hits off on the boss anyway.  And sometimes with tarot cards, i end up having to use pretty "bad" cards on encounters sometimes for as little as 10 damage.

For items, I know which ones give int, which is basically the only stat i care about, but even so i skip a lot of the items (i really only get 3 'buried treasures' and that's just because they are on my way to certain liberations).  Between the "find out" and going through the menus and equipping the damn things, I just dont find the items to really be worth it.
I end up getting a lich and a princess pretty early and once i do, they just take everything out regardless of resists, so items and things really start to not matter to me.

That being said, I'm sure you've uncovered many useful facts in your research that i'd love to take a look at!
I read that 20 page forum post you linked.  I am a big ogre battle fan and I know pretty much all there is to know (except for the code... totally clueless on that stuff), but some of the things those people have tested was cracking me up.  Like being able to delete Norn and still get world ending?  Who tests these things???

Anyways... thanks for your continued help, Dragondarch.

~Brootus

Dragondarch

Edit history:

Dragondarch: 2013-02-13 10:26:50 am

2013-02-13 09:58:55 am

Pudding%

Adding something to spreadsheet...will re-upload in a moment.

Dragondarch

2013-02-13 10:38:13 am

Pudding%

Re-uploaded the Excel File. Added a small bit of info to the Boss Tab. I probably didn't label what everything is supposed to be that well (I never had planned on anyone else actually using this TBH), so feel free to ask for clarification(s).

Attachment:

OB.xls

Brootus

2013-02-13 06:08:39 pm

Wow!
your thoroughness is astounding!

thanks again, dragon

~Brootus

P.S. I've got my route all figured out now. I owe much improvement to your reputation tanking trick!
Will try to get an unofficial speedrun linked as soon as i can

rayrox222

2013-02-14 07:27:12 am

I love YaBB 1G - SP1!

Since you plan on recording using twitch tv for the test run, and twitch both records and allows people to watch it done live, would you be willing to share the link to watch your run and post here when you plan to get started? I would like to casually observe your live test run if I may.

Dragondarch

Edit history:

Dragondarch: 2013-02-17 11:52:02 pm

Dragondarch: 2013-02-17 11:51:55 pm

2013-02-17 11:51:47 pm

Pudding%

So I just popped in my copy to do a casual playthrough, and found that 2 of my saves deleted themselves - one of which was of course the one directly after character creation with the perfect card pulls. Guess I get to re-do segment 1 again Undecided

rayrox222

2013-02-18 11:09:02 am

I love YaBB 1G - SP1!

Heya, a little update on Brootus' end. I'm his brother, by the way. We've gotten the setup going and so he's been doing his test runs lately on the actual console. What's in the works is a 100% world ending run (single segment) that he can pull off consistently in 2.5 hours, and he wants to get it closer to 2 before submission. I'm trying to help with the technical end of things but have run into a couple of problems.

1) I've checked with the support threads and following their instructions, I can't seem to get virtualdub to capture the game's audio. Video capture is working fine. Their setup suggests you split the red/white/yellow cables to run between the console, the television, and the capture card. In Virtualdub however, SDA's tech support site instructs you to select the "LINE (USB EMP Audio Device)", but the only option I get to choose is for the audio line in like where you plug into the computer speakers or headphones. How do I get it to check for audio input linking pc to card capture to tv via the card capture's USB connection?

2) Encoding is going to be rough because SDA has no Ogre Battle March of the Black Queen runs for SNES. I'm also dealing with the questions you're prompted with. I'm trying to find D and F for this game, but am not sure how to use the extract sample utility. Even if I did, I then have to post that in the tech support forum and wait for someone to tell me what D and F are. Would you happen to know the answers to all of the encoding questions you're prompted with when you try to encode a run with Anri-chan 3.3 for this game, Dragon?

Good luck to your reattempted minimalist under 1 hour segmented run! I can't imagine the patience it must take to reset every time a single luck based variable doesn't go your way.

Heya, a little update on Brootus' end.  I'm his brother, by the way.  We've gotten the setup going and so he's been doing his test runs lately on the actual console.  What's in the works is a 100% world ending run (single segment) that he can pull off consistently in 2.5 hours, and he wants to get it closer to 2 before submission.  I'm trying to help with the technical end of things but have run into a couple of problems.

1) I've checked with the support threads and following their instructions, I can't seem to get virtualdub to capture the game's audio.  Video capture is working fine.  Their setup suggests you split the red/white/yellow cables to run between the console, the television, and the capture card.  In Virtualdub however, SDA's tech support site instructs you to select the "LINE (USB EMP Audio Device)", but the only option I get to choose is for the audio line in like where you plug into the computer speakers or headphones.  How do I get it to check for audio input linking pc to card capture to tv via the card capture's USB connection?

2) Encoding is going to be rough because SDA has no Ogre Battle March of the Black Queen runs for SNES.  I'm also dealing with the questions you're prompted with.  I'm trying to find D and F for this game, but am not sure how to use the extract sample utility.  Even if I did, I then have to post that in the tech support forum and wait for someone to tell me what D and F are.  Would you happen to know the answers to all of the encoding questions you're prompted with when you try to encode a run with Anri-chan 3.3 for this game, Dragon?

Good luck to your reattempted minimalist under 1 hour segmented run!  I can't imagine the patience it must take to reset every time a single luck based variable doesn't go your way.

Dragondarch

Edit history:

Dragondarch: 2013-02-18 12:20:08 pm

2013-02-18 12:16:00 pm

Pudding%

Well, I kind of know how the RNG works now, so I think I can manage some luck feats that wouldn't be possible otherwise. I also changed up a few things (namely equipment) and should be able to shave at least 45 seconds from that alone, plus whatever else I managed to shave. I'm also re-planning my 100% route a bit to account for equipment changes as well.

As for the encoding options, it should be D4 F1 2D. I think the rest of the options may be a bit different than mine since I use a DVD Recorder and have no experience with PC capture.

Looking forward to seeing a video of this! I'll offer whatever suggestions I can.

rayrox222

2013-02-25 09:51:03 am

I love YaBB 1G - SP1!

Well, Brootus pretty much nailed a 2 hour, fifteen minute single segment run, with few mistakes, great luck saving time in much of the latter part of the game, but totally forgot to pick up the grail, so it was hierophant rather than world ending. I would have used it as a sampler, bit he messed up the recording capture process, so I was unable to do anything with it. Fortunately, he's passionate enough about the game to keep going, so we'll have something good eventually. Only a matter of time!

Dragondarch

2013-02-25 01:52:14 pm

Pudding%

Would it be possible to post his route and party setups? At least then I could offer some advice before he gets a potential "God run" Wink

Brootus

2013-02-27 11:17:17 am

Hey there. Long post inc.
This is my route.
Basically i can beat the game consistently in 2:15-2:30. But I've yet to have a really lucky beginning. If I can get some better luck in the first 10 scenes than i have thus far, i think i can get it to 2 hours flat. Or pretty close. Anyway... here's my route. Any advice is welcome!

Ianuki Lord (basically answers a samurai would give. pro honor/justice)
Fool : B
Magician : B
Priestess : A
Empress : B
Emperor : A
Hierophant: B
Lovers : B
Chariot : C
Strength : B
Hermit : B
Fortune : A
Justice : B
Hanged Man: B
Death : C
Temperance: A
Devil : B
Tower : B
Star : B
Moon : C
Sun : B
Judgement : C
World : B

stage 1 castle of warren (lans, warren,)
move OL (Opinion Leader) NE to zeltenia
adjust options for max speed
move OL to BC (Boss Castle)
Aftermath: remove all from OL unit. Remove lans, remove warren.
Add warren + 1 lans' wizard + gryphon to lord unit
Make new unit with old valkyrie/gryphon
formation OL unit to lord/wizards back, gryphon front

stage 2 sharom: Rally (usar)
move OL to treasure island
move LB (liberator bitch) to hidden temple NE island
After grabbing treasure, move OL to bush NW boss castle
Once cleric safely out of way, move OL to boss castle

stage 3 sharom district (canopus, gilbert, yulia)
move OL to Bah'Wahl (say "yes" to this and all dialogue on this map)
move LB to Latingur, buy 4 heals, max jokers+
move OL to hidden temple
move LB back onto Latingur, then N until you hit deep water, then W to Bah'Wahl
after liberating temple, move OL to BC
Aftermath: remove gryphon from OL unit, remove gilbert unit. Add wyvern to OL unit

stage 4 lake jannenia (sirius)
move OL to water NW of temple
move LB to temple
move OL to BC just before liberating temple. do NOT draw a card (moon could screw you over)
equip rune axe to OL before fighting sirius

stage 5 Pogrom Forest (kapella)
formation OL unit to have OL/wyrm in front, wizards back. Move SW to forest SE of temple
move LB W to hidden Para
wipe unit (OL has to kill 3-4 ghosts to get to 70 ALI)
use heal on OL (probably), move OL straight west, fight second wizard/undead.
move slightly NW to dodge witch/dollmage/imp, then S to BC.
Pause, formation OL/wizards back, wyrm front middle

Stage 6 Deneb's Garden
move OL to bush N of BC, then to BC
say "yes" to forgive

Stage 7, slums of Zenobia (ashe, debonair)
move LB to By'Roit (say yes to ashe)
move OL to Anberg. move OL to BC

Stge 8 Isle Avalon (Aisha, Gares)
move OL to hidden temple (do NOt draw a tarot. moon can screw you), say yes to Aisha, move W just a little, move to SE corner of boss castle
Aftermath:remove weakest wizard from OL, remove Aisha unit. add aisha, change to valkyrie

Stage 8 Kast. Sea (Porkyus)
move LB to Nw hidden temple
move OL to mountain S of BC, then to BC

Stage 9 Balmorian Ruins
move LB N to Wan Kayo, move SE to chaos gate once liberated
Move OL NW to treasure, move N to center temple (watch out for birdman!) 5s before OL gets to Wan Kayo (say yes to saradin!), then to BC
move LB2 (gilbert) W to hidden Kalyao, re-enter city once Wan Kayo is liberated
Aftermath: remove warren from OL unit, remove saradin unit. Add Saradin to OL, change class to wizard

Stage 10 Diaspola (Norn, Posha, Brootus)
Move LB Nw to Somyul (say yes to little girl), re-enter after obtaining beehive, then move SE to hidden Ajan
move OL N to hidden city Anglem, then to BC
wait 5s then move LB to hidden temple S of Somyul, then to Raloshel (assuming timing was right and you got beehive from temple)
buy Bough and 16 boots
aftermath: remove all from OL, add gryhon. Create BK (boss-killer) with wyrm, aisha, norn, saradin

Stage 11 Valley of Kastro (Rauny, Ares)
move OL SW to temple, say yes to Rauny
move LB S to chaos gate
move BK just south of bush S of BC, remove to BC once BK passes ninja safely

Stage 12 Muspelm (Slust)
move LB S to Chaos gate
Move BK to shop, then slightly west, then BC
Aftermath: re-enter stage, boots to shop (buy as many jokers as possible -10), moveto Chilfa. Turn Norn into a princess,
change Norn to BK leader. Go to Pogrom forest, boot to Para. Go to Slums of zenobia, boot to lyon town say yes to lyon, walk to banya town
re-enter Diaspola, boot OL to Anglem, deny Borgnine 12x. boot to Deneb's garden BC, accept deneb.

**DRAW NO MORE TAROTS FROM NOW ON**
joker = STAR, FOOL, EMPRESS, MAGICIAN, DEVIL, HERMIT, WORLD

Stage 14 City of Malano (Tristan, Apros)
move OL S to Bel Chel. Say Yes to tristan, move OL safely SE
move LB SE to hidden city Sanbelna, then SW to Mon Bizo. Say "yes!"
Move BK to bush just SW of Mantova, then to BC
Aftermath: remove Aisha from BK, remove Tristan. Add tristan, equip brunhilde

Stage 15 Kalbia Penninsula (Figaro)
move OL NE to chaos gate
move BK to bush NW of BC, then to BC. Watch out for that pesky angel!

Stage 16 Shangrlia (Gares, Tristan, Debonair, Norn, Brootus)
move BK to abyss W of BC, then to BC
Say yes to Debonair!

Stage 17 Tundra (Mizal)
Move BK to bush NE of BC, then to BC. Watch that pesky angel

Stage 18 Fort Allamoot (Castor, Polydeuces)
move OL SW to chaos gate
move BK SW to southern-most mountain of main land, then W to BC
retreat as soon as you kill leader

Stage 19 Organa (Fenril)
move OL W to chaos gate
move BK to abyss W of city, then to BC

stage 20 Ruined City (Fogel)
move BK NW to bush S of BC, then to BC

Stage 21 Antalia (Yushis, Omicron)
move OL SW to chaos gate, then N to safety
move LB SE to Banbuhl, buy 9 sunshines, 4 all heals, 4+ revive
move BK S to hidden temple, say yes to Yushis, then move SW to BC. Use sunshine
aftermath: remove saradin, remove yushis, add yushis to BK

Stage 22 Antanjyl(Galf)
move BK to bush N of BC, then to BC. use sunshine

Stage 23 Dalmuhd Desert (Prochron)
Move OL N to hidden city Aliabard
move BK NW to Konsh, then W to BC. use sunshine
Aftermath: return, boot to aliabard. pogrom forest boot to para

Stage 24 Ryhan Sea (Randals)
Move OL to Ramoto
Move BK to xroads above Raiyagam, then to BC. use sunshine
return, boot to to Ramoto

Zodiac stone time! (all movement OL)
shangrila: boot to BC, move SW to temple
ryhan sea: temple SE of base
dalmuhd desert: boot to Konsh, walk S to temple
ruined city: walk NE to temple
tundra: boot to BC, then walk E to temple
city of malano: boot to Sanbelna
Organa: walk E to temple
Muspelm: walk S to temple
Diaspola: boot to Ajan, walk to Somyul
Island Avalon: walk N to temple
slums of Zenobia: walk NW to temple
Lake Jansenia: boot to BC, walk SE to temple

Stage 25 Fort Shulamana (Previa, Brootus, Tristan) world/hermit/Fool/star
move BK W of temple N of BC, then to BC. use sunshine

Stage 26 Shrine of Kulyn (Luvalon, Parcival) fool/magician/star
move BK W of NE mountain, then to BC
aftermath: boot to BC

Stage 27 City of Xanadu (Overlord Hikash) fool/devil/world/star
move BK to bush NE of BC, then to BC. wait for the pesky samurai!
pixel perfect or your hero has to fight

Stage 28 Zeteginea (Empress Endora) world
move BK to narrowest part of water between island S of BC and mainland
move BK to BC. use sunshine.

Stage 29 Temple Shalina (Gares, Rashidi, Tristan) world/empress/star/temperance
move LB to shop (security if no empress/world for rashidi/all heals/revives)
move BK N of 2nd mountain N of BC. then to BC. use sunshine.

Hey there. Long post inc.
This is my route.
Basically i can beat the game consistently in 2:15-2:30. But I've yet to have a really lucky beginning.  If I can get some better luck in the first 10 scenes than i have thus far, i think i can get it to 2 hours flat.  Or pretty close.  Anyway... here's my route. Any advice is welcome!

Ianuki Lord (basically answers a samurai would give. pro honor/justice)
Fool      : B
Magician  : B
Priestess : A
Empress   : B
Emperor   : A
Hierophant: B
Lovers    : B
Chariot   : C
Strength  : B
Hermit    : B
Fortune   : A
Justice   : B
Hanged Man: B
Death     : C
Temperance: A
Devil     : B
Tower     : B
Star      : B
Moon      : C
Sun       : B
Judgement : C
World     : B

stage 1 castle of warren (lans, warren,)
move OL (Opinion Leader) NE to zeltenia
adjust options for max speed
move OL to BC (Boss Castle)
Aftermath: remove all from OL unit. Remove lans, remove warren.
Add warren + 1 lans' wizard + gryphon to lord unit
Make new unit with old valkyrie/gryphon
formation OL unit to lord/wizards back, gryphon front

stage 2 sharom: Rally (usar)
move OL to treasure island
move LB (liberator bitch) to hidden temple NE island
After grabbing treasure, move OL to bush NW boss castle
Once cleric safely out of way, move OL to boss castle

stage 3 sharom district (canopus, gilbert, yulia)
move OL to Bah'Wahl (say "yes" to this and all dialogue on this map)
move LB to Latingur, buy 4 heals, max jokers+
move OL to hidden temple
move LB back onto Latingur, then N until you hit deep water, then W to Bah'Wahl
after liberating temple, move OL to BC
Aftermath: remove gryphon from OL unit, remove gilbert unit.  Add wyvern to OL unit

stage 4 lake jannenia (sirius)
move OL to water NW of temple
move LB to temple
move OL to BC just before liberating temple. do NOT draw a card (moon could screw you over)
equip rune axe to OL before fighting sirius

stage 5 Pogrom Forest (kapella)
formation OL unit to have OL/wyrm in front, wizards back. Move SW to forest SE of temple
move LB W to hidden Para
wipe unit (OL has to kill 3-4 ghosts to get to 70 ALI)
use heal on OL (probably), move OL straight west, fight second wizard/undead.
move slightly NW to dodge witch/dollmage/imp, then S to BC. 
Pause, formation OL/wizards back, wyrm front middle

Stage 6 Deneb's Garden
move OL to bush N of BC, then to BC
say "yes" to forgive

Stage 7, slums of Zenobia (ashe, debonair)
move LB to By'Roit (say yes to ashe)
move OL to Anberg. move OL to BC

Stge 8 Isle Avalon (Aisha, Gares)
move OL to hidden temple (do NOt draw a tarot. moon can screw you), say yes to Aisha, move W just a little, move to SE corner of boss castle
Aftermath:remove weakest wizard from OL, remove Aisha unit. add aisha, change to valkyrie

Stage 8 Kast. Sea (Porkyus)
move LB to Nw hidden temple
move OL to mountain S of BC, then to BC

Stage 9 Balmorian Ruins
move LB N to Wan Kayo, move SE to chaos gate once liberated
Move OL NW to treasure, move N to center temple (watch out for birdman!) 5s before OL gets to Wan Kayo (say yes to saradin!), then to BC
move LB2 (gilbert) W to hidden Kalyao, re-enter city once Wan Kayo is liberated
Aftermath: remove warren from OL unit, remove saradin unit. Add Saradin to OL, change class to wizard

Stage 10 Diaspola (Norn, Posha, Brootus)
Move LB Nw to Somyul (say yes to little girl), re-enter after obtaining beehive, then move SE to hidden Ajan
move OL N to hidden city Anglem, then to BC
wait 5s then move LB to hidden temple S of Somyul, then to Raloshel (assuming timing was right and you got beehive from temple)
buy Bough and 16 boots
aftermath: remove all from OL, add gryhon. Create BK (boss-killer) with wyrm, aisha, norn, saradin

Stage 11 Valley of Kastro (Rauny, Ares)
move OL SW to temple, say yes to Rauny
move LB S to chaos gate
move BK just south of bush S of BC, remove to BC once BK passes ninja safely

Stage 12 Muspelm (Slust)
move LB S to Chaos gate
Move BK to shop, then slightly west, then BC 
Aftermath: re-enter stage, boots to shop (buy as many jokers as possible -10), moveto Chilfa. Turn Norn into a princess, 
change Norn to BK leader. Go to Pogrom forest, boot to Para. Go to Slums of zenobia, boot to lyon town say yes to lyon, walk to banya town
re-enter Diaspola, boot OL to Anglem, deny Borgnine 12x. boot to Deneb's garden BC, accept deneb.

**DRAW NO MORE TAROTS FROM NOW ON**
joker = STAR, FOOL, EMPRESS, MAGICIAN, DEVIL, HERMIT, WORLD

Stage 14 City of Malano (Tristan, Apros)
move OL S to Bel Chel. Say Yes to tristan, move OL safely SE
move LB SE to hidden city Sanbelna, then SW to Mon Bizo. Say "yes!"
Move BK to bush just SW of Mantova, then to BC
Aftermath: remove Aisha from BK, remove Tristan. Add tristan, equip brunhilde

Stage 15 Kalbia Penninsula (Figaro)
move OL NE to chaos gate
move BK to bush NW of BC, then to BC. Watch out for that pesky angel!

Stage 16 Shangrlia (Gares, Tristan, Debonair, Norn, Brootus)
move BK to abyss W of BC, then to BC
Say yes to Debonair!

Stage 17 Tundra (Mizal)
Move BK to bush NE of BC, then to BC. Watch that pesky angel

Stage 18 Fort Allamoot (Castor, Polydeuces)
move OL SW to chaos gate
move BK SW to southern-most mountain of main land, then W to BC
retreat as soon as you kill leader

Stage 19 Organa (Fenril)
move OL W to chaos gate
move BK to abyss W of city, then to BC

stage 20 Ruined City (Fogel)
move BK NW to bush S of BC, then to BC

Stage 21 Antalia  (Yushis, Omicron)
move OL SW to chaos gate, then N to safety
move LB SE to Banbuhl, buy 9 sunshines, 4 all heals, 4+ revive
move BK S to hidden temple, say yes to Yushis, then move SW to BC. Use sunshine
aftermath: remove saradin, remove yushis, add yushis to BK

Stage 22 Antanjyl(Galf) 
move BK to bush N of BC, then to BC. use sunshine

Stage 23 Dalmuhd Desert (Prochron)
Move OL N to hidden city Aliabard
move BK NW to Konsh, then W to BC. use sunshine
Aftermath: return, boot to aliabard. pogrom forest boot to para

Stage 24 Ryhan Sea (Randals)
Move OL to Ramoto
Move BK to xroads above Raiyagam, then to BC. use sunshine
return, boot to to Ramoto

Zodiac stone time! (all movement OL)
shangrila: boot to BC, move SW to temple
ryhan sea: temple SE of base
dalmuhd desert: boot to Konsh, walk S to temple
ruined city: walk NE to temple
tundra: boot to BC, then walk E to temple
city of malano: boot to Sanbelna
Organa: walk E to temple
Muspelm: walk S to temple
Diaspola: boot to Ajan, walk to Somyul
Island Avalon: walk N to temple
slums of Zenobia: walk NW to temple
Lake Jansenia: boot to BC, walk SE to temple

Stage 25 Fort Shulamana (Previa, Brootus, Tristan) world/hermit/Fool/star
move BK W of temple N of BC, then to BC. use sunshine

Stage 26 Shrine of Kulyn (Luvalon, Parcival) fool/magician/star
move BK W of NE mountain, then to BC
aftermath: boot to BC

Stage 27 City of Xanadu (Overlord Hikash) fool/devil/world/star
move BK to bush NE of BC, then to BC. wait for the pesky samurai!
pixel perfect or your hero has to fight

Stage 28 Zeteginea (Empress Endora) world
move BK to narrowest part of water between island S of BC and mainland
move BK to BC. use sunshine.

Stage 29 Temple Shalina (Gares, Rashidi, Tristan) world/empress/star/temperance
move LB to shop (security if no empress/world for rashidi/all heals/revives)
move BK N of 2nd mountain N of BC. then to BC. use sunshine.

Dragondarch

2013-02-27 02:10:18 pm

Pudding%

OK, I have some route suggestions, but I need more info to know whether they'd be worth it.
Namely, I need to know when you start mass drawing tarots, since you list some for the later stages.
I have 2 possible versions of revisions, but one depends on tarots a bit more heavily, and the other less so.

Grystor

2013-02-28 11:45:54 pm

So much info to digest on here....
Anyways, long time lurking, first time posting in here, but I've been poking around with single segment any% runs when I have spare time for a while.

I had something strange happen on a run tonight that hopefully one of you can elaborate on for me, missed a slide by, got in a battle, retreated immediately before either side had a chance to swing and yet I had a character level up for it anyways. Any idea what may cause that?

Other than that, I really like the Boss killing unit idea that you have Brootus, have you considered going one step further on that and getting rid of the wyrm in it for a pair of more powerful units and using the OL as a high flyer transport to get right next to the bosses and then summoning in the overall more powerful unit to fight? I doubt it would save much time in the early game, but after about halfway when you have some of the high knights or whatnot I imagine it could save some time.

Dragondarch

2013-03-01 02:26:03 am

Pudding%

Grystor, what happened when your character leveled is that you always get 1 XP for fighting a battle, regardless of whether you killed anything.

As for summoning in a larger unit, that would cost extra goth that he may or may not have, and the advantages of having a 5 person unit are honestly pretty small with the group setup he already has.

Brootus, I still have some suggestions for your route/party setup, but I need to know when you start burning Jokers for cards before I can say 100% that it's worthwhile.

Grystor

Edit history:

Grystor: 2013-03-01 02:59:07 am

2013-03-01 02:48:32 am

I see, thanks for the updates Dragondarch.

I guess the summons probably seem more relevant to me because I don't get wyrms and the gryphon I use ends up feeling like really dead weight near the end of the any% run. I need to figure out who exactly to pick up along the way to make it work the best, but I think it will fix some of the late game problems I've been having.

I also fixed a lot of the money problems I was having by picking up the nugget in sharom, the 40k it sells for pretty much eliminated the money problems I was running into when I initially started.

Brootus

2013-03-01 10:07:25 pm

I went ahead and got a 2 hour 12 minute run that I am pretty satisfied with for now. Going to go ahead and submit it for now. Hopefully someone like Grystor or Dragondarch will come along and challenge that time with a new and improved route or something. I think I'd probably rather do that -- see how my route stacks up on its on merits, rather than change it.

To answer your question about tarots, Dragondarch, I basically buy 20 jokers on 3rd level. I spam them when I get to debonair, strategically saving what I get. Basically I plan for Debonair, Gares, Porkyus, Albeleo. Basically you have to have a devil card or two for debonair, a fool for gares and hopefully some judgement or justice to do a bit or damage. For porkyus I like having a hermit or tower/chariot, for albeleo a priestess or empress is a must and tower/chariot or devil is good. fool is also nice, since the wyrm can actually hurt him. Honestly, after Albeleo, Norn is easy. And after I get Norn, Aisha, Saradin, the game is easy mode and tarots are basically unnecessary until the rashidi/diablo fights. So I do buy another pack of 40 on the return to muspelm, which i might go through to get some empress/star/world for rashidi/diablo, but once I create my BK unit (norn, aisha, sarah, wyrm), i stop drawing cards when i liberate. Every time you deny a tarot on liberation, it saves 6 seconds. So that really adds up.

To answer your question, Grystor, I did fool around with some summon-to-OL stuff, but the problem is having enough funds to get enough "summon"s along with the other stuff. You'll notice in my run that there are some key purchases that just wipe out my funds. I feel like I need the 20 jokers at the beginning as an ensurance policy to crappy luck of misses in boss fights (if you're talking single segment, that will happen to you). Of course you wouldnt need to buy the boots/bough since you dont care about world ending.. so... yeah... maybe test it out and see if it's worth it.
I will say though that the wyrm + princess/tristan/saradin (and later yushis) BK unit i use never needs any help from the other powerful units.
So I suspect that summoning in a more powerful unit wouldnt be necessary, but it's always fun to test stuff like that =)

I was actually thinking of trying a single-segment run just to beat the game. Dragondarch basically had a segmented run down to 50 minutes or so, which is crazy, but... I think i might be able to get it to an hour or hour 10 with my route - a couple of real time-wasters for the 100%

anyway... my quality sample passed the test, so once they verify my run *knock on wood*, i'll have a run with commentary up on the sda site soon =)
I'll keep you guys posted!

You, of course, get a shout-out in my author's notes for all your help, Dragondarch

I went ahead and got a 2 hour 12 minute run that I am pretty satisfied with for now.  Going to go ahead and submit it for now.  Hopefully someone like Grystor or Dragondarch will come along and challenge that time with a new and improved route or something.  I think I'd probably rather do that -- see how my route stacks up on its on merits, rather than change it.

To answer your question about tarots, Dragondarch, I basically buy 20 jokers on 3rd level.  I spam them when I get to debonair, strategically saving what I get.  Basically I plan for Debonair, Gares, Porkyus, Albeleo.  Basically you have to have a devil card or two for debonair, a fool for gares and hopefully some judgement or justice to do a bit or damage.  For porkyus I like having a hermit or tower/chariot, for albeleo a priestess or empress is a must and tower/chariot or devil is good. fool is also nice, since the wyrm can actually hurt him.  Honestly, after Albeleo, Norn is easy.  And after I get Norn, Aisha, Saradin, the game is easy mode and tarots are basically unnecessary until the rashidi/diablo fights.  So I do buy another pack of 40 on the return to muspelm, which i might go through to get some empress/star/world for rashidi/diablo, but once I create my BK unit (norn, aisha, sarah, wyrm), i stop drawing cards when i liberate.  Every time you deny a tarot on liberation, it saves 6 seconds.  So that really adds up.

To answer your question, Grystor, I did fool around with some summon-to-OL stuff, but the problem is having enough funds to get enough "summon"s along with the other stuff.  You'll notice in my run that there are some key purchases that just wipe out my funds.  I feel like I need the 20 jokers at the beginning as an ensurance policy to crappy luck of misses in boss fights (if you're talking single segment, that will happen to you). Of course you wouldnt need to buy the boots/bough since you dont care about world ending.. so... yeah... maybe test it out and see if it's worth it.
I will say though that the wyrm + princess/tristan/saradin (and later yushis) BK unit i use never needs any help from the other powerful units.
So I suspect that summoning in a more powerful unit wouldnt be necessary, but it's always fun to test stuff like that =)

I was actually thinking of trying a single-segment run just to beat the game.  Dragondarch basically had a segmented run down to 50 minutes or so, which is crazy, but... I think i might be able to get it to an hour or hour 10 with my route - a couple of real time-wasters for the 100%

anyway... my quality sample passed the test, so once they verify my run *knock on wood*, i'll have a run with commentary up on the sda site soon =)
I'll keep you guys posted!

You, of course, get a shout-out in my author's notes for all your help, Dragondarch

Grystor

2013-03-02 01:48:46 am

Fantastic post to hear from you brootus.

I'm all about it in general and I think you have a ton of good points here. I think a realistic time for single segment any% is probably around 75-80 minutes..... I think I will be getting in that range in the nearish future, but i could have a ways to go.....

Very different then the 100% run that you all have been going for....

Grystor

2013-03-02 02:19:22 am

Ah hell, i need to stop communicating when drunk....anyways, Ignore my last post of bs if you want, however I think an hour 10 is a very admirable goal for an any % run. I know dragondarch was slightly under an hour on his segmented run but its slightly different. I will be more then happy to be competing with someone for a good time on any %. I am looking at/hoping for sub 1:20 currently, so I may be underevaluating the depth of it, but that is my current goal for any %.

Grystor

2013-07-29 07:34:12 pm

So a couple month necro time on this thread I guess.

Been slowly working on my any% route for the past few months and I finally have one that I am overall pretty happy with. I'm playing the game on Wii VC, which from what I understand should be the same speed as the snes version of the game, but I would love to know if anyone has found that out to not be the case.

Anyways, point of the post, finally got around to streaming some of my run attempts and would love some feedback on the route I am doing. I finished a streamed run with a time of 1:41:57, which I know can be improved on a decent amount still. Had bad luck on a few of the bosses and I made some input mistakes that cost a couple minutes throughout the run. Definitely not looking to submit it or anything like that at this point, but if anyone else wants to give it a try as well or add some input that I may have missed, please do.

Here is the link to the video: http://www.twitch.tv/grystor/c/2658318

I realized after I was done recording that my mic wasn't set up to send to the stream as well, so no commentary...spose that is both good and bad since I spent a while complaining.

I can also put up my full run notes if anyone wants them or needs clarification why I did something when I did, but I may need to re-write them so they make more sense first.

So a couple month necro time on this thread I guess.

Been slowly working on my any% route for the past few months and I finally have one that I am overall pretty happy with.  I'm playing the game on Wii VC, which from what I understand should be the same speed as the snes version of the game, but I would love to know if anyone has found that out to not be the case.

Anyways, point of the post, finally got around to streaming some of my run attempts and would love some feedback on the route I am doing.  I finished a streamed run with a time of 1:41:57, which I know can be improved on a decent amount still.  Had bad luck on a few of the bosses and I made some input mistakes that cost a couple minutes throughout the run.  Definitely not looking to submit it or anything like that at this point, but if anyone else wants to give it a try as well or add some input that I may have missed, please do.

Here is the link to the video: [url]http://www.twitch.tv/grystor/c/2658318[/url]

I realized after I was done recording that my mic wasn't set up to send to the stream as well, so no commentary...spose that is both good and bad since I spent a while complaining.

I can also put up my full run notes if anyone wants them or needs clarification why I did something when I did, but I may need to re-write them so they make more sense first.