Ninja Gaiden I, II, III (NES)

Edit history:

Scumtron: 2007-02-17 07:00:51 pm

2007-02-17 07:00:36 pm

A few questions for tmont: are you using the shuriken to grab the firewheel in 3-1? i kicked myself when i first saw that in sloterymeyer's TAS (so obvious!) and immediately starting using it in normal play. Judging by your 1-1 time, i'm guessing that you're bouncing off enemies where useful. but there might be some useful stuff you haven't taken advantage of as seen in my TAS (exiting 4-3, 3rd area being my favorite)

Are you killing the level 1 and 2 bosses with one slash or two? two, done optimally saves a fraction of a sec but is easy to screw up.

I'm sure there's i could mention something more useful/less inconsequential than the above but that's all i can think of at the moment.

I would have done a NG1 speedrun a long time ago if i had an nes, and the time... playing on an emulator my best attempt so far would have been something like 13:20 if i hadn't choked on jaquio. By my estimate an optimal time would be around 12:20... that would of course be a very ballsy run. 8)

I'd consider anything under 14:00 damn good, and I'd love to see where your style differs from my own (even if you profess to hate the game i love so dearly :P)

A few questions for tmont: are you using the shuriken to grab the firewheel in 3-1? i kicked myself when i first saw that in sloterymeyer's TAS (so obvious!) and immediately starting using it in normal play.  Judging by your 1-1 time, i'm guessing that you're bouncing off enemies where useful. but there might be some useful stuff you haven't taken advantage of as seen in my TAS (exiting 4-3, 3rd area being my favorite)

Are you killing the level 1 and 2 bosses with one slash or two? two, done optimally saves a fraction of a sec but is easy to screw up.

I'm sure there's i could mention something more useful/less inconsequential than the above but that's all i can think of at the moment.

I would have done a NG1 speedrun a long time ago if i had an nes, and the time... playing on an emulator my best attempt so far would have been something like 13:20 if i hadn't choked on jaquio. By my estimate an optimal time would be around 12:20... that would of course be a very ballsy run.  8)

I'd consider anything under 14:00 damn good, and I'd love to see where your style differs from my own (even if you profess to hate the game i love so dearly :P)

tmont

Edit history:

tmont: 2007-02-17 08:44:42 pm

2007-02-17 08:43:53 pm

Not going to school today

Quote:

are you using the shuriken to grab the firewheel in 3-1?

Yeah, I was originally using the orange shuriken (the one that swings back and forth) on the boss, until rdrunner pointed me in the right direction to use the firewheel. And yes, I have been obtaining it by shooting it in 3-1 with the shuriken. Sometimes I miss, or don't shoot at all by accident, and that really pisses me off.

Quote:

Judging by your 1-1 time, i'm guessing that you're bouncing off enemies where useful. but there might be some useful stuff you haven't taken advantage of as seen in my TAS (exiting 4-3, 3rd area being my favorite)

Yep, most of which I gleamed from your TAS (a few I discovered on my own, but you do use in the TAS). I could get a 119 on 1-1 (I have before), but it requires some tricky maneouvering on that first group of three enemies, and most of the time I fail. The 118 I get is a high 118, so it's only a fraction of a second slower than the 119 I could get.

I don't do the damage boost in 4-3. I've never tried it, but it looked too risky for not enough gain (meaning, it wouldn't save me enough time to warrant all the ruined runs it might cause). Most of your damage boosts in the later levels are like that as well. Off the top of my head, I do one damage boost in 2-2, one in 3-2, and one in 5-2. Well, I also get hit twice on purpose right at the end of 6-3 to knock me into the door, so I don't have to worry about accidentally getting another powerup and losing my swirly slash.

Quote:

Are you killing the level 1 and 2 bosses with one slash or two? two, done optimally saves a fraction of a sec but is easy to screw up.

Level 1 boss takes 1, level 2 boss takes 2 (is it possible to kill him with one?). I only have enough uh... mana(?) for one slash for the level 1 boss.

Quote:

playing on an emulator my best attempt so far would have been something like 13:20 if i hadn't choked on jaquio. By my estimate an optimal time would be around 12:20... that would of course be a very ballsy run.

I estimate my "perfect" time to be around 13:10-13:20, although I think I could knock another 10 seconds off if I could beat the last boss' second form quickly (getting in enough double or triple hits). I couldn't imagine getting anything below 13 in real time; that would require an impressive amount of skill in levels 5 and 6.

Thanks for the comments; your TAS was very helpful.

[quote]are you using the shuriken to grab the firewheel in 3-1? [/quote]
Yeah, I was originally using the orange shuriken (the one that swings back and forth) on the boss, until rdrunner pointed me in the right direction to use the firewheel.  And yes, I have been obtaining it by shooting it in 3-1 with the shuriken.  Sometimes I miss, or don't shoot at all by accident, and that really pisses me off.

[quote] Judging by your 1-1 time, i'm guessing that you're bouncing off enemies where useful. but there might be some useful stuff you haven't taken advantage of as seen in my TAS (exiting 4-3, 3rd area being my favorite)[/quote]

Yep, most of which I gleamed from your TAS (a few I discovered on my own, but you do use in the TAS).  I could get a 119 on 1-1 (I have before), but it requires some tricky maneouvering on that first group of three enemies, and most of the time I fail.  The 118 I get is a high 118, so it's only a fraction of a second slower than the 119 I could get.

I don't do the damage boost in 4-3.  I've never tried it, but it looked too risky for not enough gain (meaning, it wouldn't save me enough time to warrant all the ruined runs it might cause).  Most of your damage boosts in the later levels are like that as well.  Off the top of my head, I do one damage boost in 2-2, one in 3-2, and one in 5-2.  Well, I also get hit twice on purpose right at the end of 6-3 to knock me into the door, so I don't have to worry about accidentally getting another powerup and losing my swirly slash.

[quote]Are you killing the level 1 and 2 bosses with one slash or two? two, done optimally saves a fraction of a sec but is easy to screw up.[/quote]

Level 1 boss takes 1, level 2 boss takes 2 (is it possible to kill him with one?).  I only have enough uh... mana(?) for one slash for the level 1 boss.

[quote] playing on an emulator my best attempt so far would have been something like 13:20 if i hadn't choked on jaquio. By my estimate an optimal time would be around 12:20... that would of course be a very ballsy run.  [/quote]

I estimate my "perfect" time to be around 13:10-13:20, although I think I could knock another 10 seconds off if I could beat the last boss' second form quickly (getting in enough double or triple hits).  I couldn't imagine getting anything below 13 in real time; that would require an impressive amount of skill in levels 5 and 6.

Thanks for the comments; your TAS was very helpful.

tmont

2007-02-17 11:18:10 pm

Not going to school today

Second full run attempt: 13:49.

...

Scumtron

2007-02-18 09:00:15 pm

Quote:

I could get a 119 on 1-1 (I have before), but it requires some tricky maneouvering on that first group of three enemies, and most of the time I fail. The 118 I get is a high 118, so it's only a fraction of a second slower than the 119 I could get.

Hard to tell if you're aware of this or not from the above quote (seems most people aren't; forgive me if you already are :p) but you can't kill anything with your first jumping attack. the most reliable method for dealing with those 3 is to jump/slash right after the screen starts scrolling and kill the first guy as you land then kill the next 2 with another jump.

Quote:

I don't do the damage boost in 4-3. I've never tried it, but it looked too risky for not enough gain (meaning, it wouldn't save me enough time to warrant all the ruined runs it might cause).

Yeah, it'll save only about 1.2 seconds at best but with the random behavior of the axe-guy i've found it to much more reliable. (i screw up much more ofter if i jump down to deal with axe-man than when doing it TAS-style)

Quote:

Most of your damage boosts in the later levels are like that as well. Off the top of my head, I do one damage boost in 2-2, one in 3-2, and one in 5-2. Well, I also get hit twice on purpose right at the end of 6-3 to knock me into the door, so I don't have to worry about accidentally getting another powerup and losing my swirly slash.

The boost in 3-2 isn't at the end of the level is it? Grin

Jumping straight off that platform and killing the sword-dude looks slick as hell so I hope that's what you've been doing.

Quote:

Level 1 boss takes 1, level 2 boss takes 2 (is it possible to kill him with one?). I only have enough uh... mana(?) for one slash for the level 1 boss.

Yeah, can take out the level 2 boss in one attack if you start the jump just in front of him. I probably shouldn't have even mentioned this anyway as it only saves about a third of a sec at best and is a good way of screwing up what might've been a new best run.

Quote:

...if I could beat the last boss' second form quickly (getting in enough double or triple hits).

Aye... do you wait for him on the first platform and get in a hit or two then hang on/jump off the right wall for the rest of the fight? that seems to be what most people do. And the final boss... do you kill the tail or try to avoid it as you go for the core?

Well, enough armchair-speedrunning for me. Good luck with any further attempts. Looking forward to seeing it.

[quote]I could get a 119 on 1-1 (I have before), but it requires some tricky maneouvering on that first group of three enemies, and most of the time I fail.  The 118 I get is a high 118, so it's only a fraction of a second slower than the 119 I could get.[/quote]

Hard to tell if you're aware of this or not from the above quote (seems most people aren't; forgive me if you already are :p) but you can't kill anything with your first jumping attack. the most reliable method for dealing with those 3 is to jump/slash right after the screen starts scrolling and kill the first guy as you land then kill the next 2 with another jump.

[quote]I don't do the damage boost in 4-3.  I've never tried it, but it looked too risky for not enough gain (meaning, it wouldn't save me enough time to warrant all the ruined runs it might cause).[/quote]

Yeah, it'll save only about 1.2 seconds at best but with the random behavior of the axe-guy i've found it to much more reliable. (i screw up much more ofter if i jump down to deal with axe-man than when doing it TAS-style)

[quote]Most of your damage boosts in the later levels are like that as well.  Off the top of my head, I do one damage boost in 2-2, one in 3-2, and one in 5-2.  Well, I also get hit twice on purpose right at the end of 6-3 to knock me into the door, so I don't have to worry about accidentally getting another powerup and losing my swirly slash.[/quote]

The boost in 3-2 isn't at the end of the level is it? ;D Jumping straight off that platform and killing the sword-dude looks slick as hell so I hope that's what you've been doing.

[quote]Level 1 boss takes 1, level 2 boss takes 2 (is it possible to kill him with one?).  I only have enough uh... mana(?) for one slash for the level 1 boss.[/quote]

Yeah, can take out the level 2 boss in one attack if you start the jump just in front of him. I probably shouldn't have even mentioned this anyway as it only saves about a third of a sec at best and is a good way of screwing up what might've been a new best run.

[quote]...if I could beat the last boss' second form quickly (getting in enough double or triple hits).[/quote]

Aye... do you wait for him on the first platform and get in a hit or two then hang on/jump off the right wall for the rest of the fight? that seems to be what most people do.  And the final boss... do you kill the tail or try to avoid it as you go for the core?

Well, enough armchair-speedrunning for me.  Good luck with any further attempts. Looking forward to seeing it.

tmont

Edit history:

tmont: 2007-02-19 10:14:01 am

2007-02-19 10:09:27 am

Not going to school today

Quote:

you can't kill anything with your first jumping attack. the most reliable method for dealing with those 3 is to jump/slash right after the screen starts scrolling and kill the first guy as you land then kill the next 2 with another jump.

Yeah, I knew about that from your comments from the TAS. The most reliable way for me to deal with those guys is to just jump between the first two, kill the middle one, then jump over the third one. I can do it nearly every time. It's actually possible to do it that way without slowing down.

Quote:

The boost in 3-2 isn't at the end of the level is it? Grin

Jumping straight off that platform and killing the sword-dude looks slick as hell so I hope that's what you've been doing.

No, the boost is off one of the crouching gunmen. It's not necessary, but it eliminates an extra jump, and I don't have to worry about those damn birds. And I most certainly do NOT jump directly off the edge. I can only accomplish it about 10% of the time. I got sick of killing my runs there, so I abandoned that strategy. Smiley

It wastes about two seconds to stand there like a lump waiting, but oh well; it leaves my sanity intact.

Quote:

Aye... do you wait for him on the first platform and get in a hit or two then hang on/jump off the right wall for the rest of the fight? that seems to be what most people do. And the final boss... do you kill the tail or try to avoid it as you go for the core?

Yes (to the first question). I tried to avoid killing the tail, but I could never angle my jumps correctly, and I'd always die before killing the heart. Now I just kill the tail.
[hr]
Well, I got a new run on tape, although it's not as exciting as I hoped it would be. It comes in about 5 seconds faster at 13:44. It would've been about 13:30 had I not sucked my own nuts on the last two bosses. I got a 105 on Jaquio (the second-to-last), and a 134 on the last; about 15-20 seconds off my best.

But this was definitely my last attempt at improving it. I'm generally pretty calm, even when speed running, but this weekend I was swearing like a pirate and chucking my controller all over the place. I was absolutely irate. This game pissed me off so much this weekend... I don't even want to think about it. Anyway, thanks for the support, everyone.

[quote]
you can't kill anything with your first jumping attack. the most reliable method for dealing with those 3 is to jump/slash right after the screen starts scrolling and kill the first guy as you land then kill the next 2 with another jump.[/quote]

Yeah, I knew about that from your comments from the TAS.  The most reliable way for me to deal with those guys is to just jump between the first two, kill the middle one, then jump over the third one.  I can do it nearly every time.  It's actually possible to do it that way without slowing down.

[quote]The boost in 3-2 isn't at the end of the level is it? ;D Jumping straight off that platform and killing the sword-dude looks slick as hell so I hope that's what you've been doing.[/quote]

No, the boost is off one of the crouching gunmen.  It's not necessary, but it eliminates an extra jump, and I don't have to worry about those damn birds.  And I most certainly do NOT jump directly off the edge.  I can only accomplish it about 10% of the time.  I got sick of killing my runs there, so I abandoned that strategy. :)  It wastes about two seconds to stand there like a lump waiting, but oh well;  it leaves my sanity intact.

[quote]Aye... do you wait for him on the first platform and get in a hit or two then hang on/jump off the right wall for the rest of the fight? that seems to be what most people do.  And the final boss... do you kill the tail or try to avoid it as you go for the core? [/quote]

Yes (to the first question).  I tried to avoid killing the tail, but I could never angle my jumps correctly, and I'd always die before killing the heart.  Now I just kill the tail.
[hr]
Well, I got a new run on tape, although it's not as exciting as I hoped it would be.  It comes in about 5 seconds faster at 13:44.  It would've been about 13:30 had I not sucked my own nuts on the last two bosses.  I got a 105 on Jaquio (the second-to-last), and a 134 on the last; about 15-20 seconds off my best.

But this was definitely my last attempt at improving it.  I'm generally pretty calm, even when speed running, but this weekend I was swearing like a pirate and chucking my controller all over the place.  I was absolutely irate.  This game pissed me off so much this weekend... I don't even want to think about it.  Anyway, thanks for the support, everyone.

Frezy_man

2007-02-19 05:23:51 pm

bläää

I´m glad over this run, really. Can´t wait to see it. You shaved a few more seconds, congrats. And I agree. The game is frustrating time-wise.

Ifrit

2007-02-19 10:08:47 pm

yay

tmont

2007-02-21 01:20:35 am

Not going to school today

Quote:

Anybody want to verify? I'll love you forever.

Vugmer

2007-02-24 11:05:34 am

Cigar Man

I am so close to accomplishing a run of Ninja Gaiden II. I should have it recorded within a week.

Vugmer

2007-02-24 12:24:10 pm

Cigar Man

I just recorded a no-death Ninja Gaiden II run in 12:44. I'm pretty happy with this run, so I think I'll submit it.

Frezy_man

2007-02-24 05:39:20 pm

bläää

:D:D:D:D:D:D

AWSOME!!!!!!!!!!

I played this game a lot last night. I looking forward to this run so damn much. I hope there will be just the third game left then Cheesy

Maybe I should give it a shot. I almoust beat it without dying last months Smiley

Breakdown

2007-02-24 08:10:41 pm

Haters gonna hate

Wow, looks like Ninja Gaiden went from being horribly under represented to being nearly completely covered in a very short time. Good job to both of you! I look forward to both runs.

Frezy_man

2007-03-02 07:51:06 am

bläää

I´m so happy Smiley

I want to join the party. got a 20:30 for Ninja Gaiden 3... With some deaths. But I´m far from a good speedrun. I will se what I can do. 15 minutes sounds good for this run..

Vugmer

2007-03-03 04:11:19 am

Cigar Man

Cool, Frezy. It'll be sweet to have all three of the NES's Ninja Gaidens on SDA.

Frezy_man

2007-03-03 06:59:17 am

bläää

I got 16:50, no deaths. But I want to improve the run with a minute or two. I´m still not tired on the game so I hope I will finish this project Smiley

nate

2007-03-03 10:08:30 am

cool. it would be cool to release all three ninja gaidens on the same day, wouldn't it?

Emptyeye

2007-03-03 03:28:37 pm

Talk to the Hand

Quote:

I got 16:50, no deaths. But I want to improve the run with a minute or two. I´m still not tired on the game so I hope I will finish this project Smiley

!!!

Are you serious?

Either there's some serious difference with how time is measured between the NTSC and PAL versions (Unlike the first two games, you DON'T get a full allotment of time back between stages in an act in NTSC NGIII), or you freaking SMOKED Act 7.

I've beaten NGIII before, but I always had to intentionally lose a life in 7-3 to make sure I had enough time to beat the stage.

Frezy_man

2007-03-03 06:25:54 pm

bläää

Nate: That would be awsome. I hope I can finish a run this weekend but I´m not sure If I will have the time to spend.

yea. You have to hurry trough the last levels/rooms. But you will see in the run later how make trough this level with an easy strategy I found Smiley

I need some practice in level 6 and some small stuff I want to practice before I can do a fast run...

tmont

Edit history:

tmont: 2007-03-04 08:21:33 am

2007-03-04 08:17:14 am

Not going to school today

Quote:

cool. it would be cool to release all three ninja gaidens on the same day, wouldn't it?

That would definitely rule hard. Frezy_man, quit messing around and finish Ninja Gaiden III. Lazy bastard.

Smiley

Out of curiosity, which one do you guys find the most difficult? Up until about a two months ago, I hadn't played any of them. As of right now, I've only played the first one.

Also, what's up with the little Ryu silhouettes or whatever in that Ninja Gaiden II video? Do they do something, or were my eyes deceiving me?

Vugmer

2007-03-04 08:33:06 am

Cigar Man

Ryu's silhouettes in Ninja Gaiden II attack whenever Ryu attacks. They are helpful against bosses because they use special weapons whenever Ryu does, so you can kill the bosses much faster.

I think Ninja Gaiden III is probably the hardest. Ninja Gaiden II is the easiest.

Emptyeye

2007-03-04 02:11:14 pm

Talk to the Hand

I agree that II is the easiest.

Depending on your criteria, either I or III is the hardest. I honestly think that I is the harder game in terms of skill; III's difficulty came mainly from being so damn cheap, as well as harsh with its penalties when you died (Why did they bother lettering the sections of the levels, since you just go back to section A whenever you die anyway?).

Frezy_man

2007-03-05 04:45:09 am

bläää

yiha! 16:35 yesterady... Tongue

I know, I´m lazy. 16:35 is to poor to submit to SDA I think. I hope I can improve this very soon =/

I agree with Emteye. The second game is the simple one. The limit of continues make the third game to the hardest one when we talk about beating the game for the first time on a NES. But I guess Ninja Gaiden 1 is harder to master.

MASTER-88

2007-03-05 01:33:15 pm

Master-88

Nice work Frezy Man. I think it is good time, hopefully you submit it. I think Rdrunner time was almost 14 minutes and he speedrun NTCS and i think your speedrun was PAL versio probably PAL versio is little bit slower.

And that game is really hard. Took almost 3 hours complete last level first time. especially two last boss caused real much trouble and when you died your game started 6-1. It is very cool watch that video if somebody can beat that game without any deaths.

Frezy_man

2007-03-05 05:35:01 pm

bläää

I play the NTSC/american version. Ninja gaiden III were never released in europe annyway. The PAL version don´t exist I guess. This series is Shadow warriors in europe.

There is some more speedtrick on shadow warriors for NES. You can jump between plattforms, these gaps is impossible to jump over in Ninja gaiden. Also other small differences. But I´m not sure you can kill many bosses with the fire-wheel.

I´m working 10 hours every night this week. I did a few more attempts in NG3 today but without successful results Tongue

I don´t think I can finish a faster run before weekend, sorry.

Frezy_man

2007-03-07 04:40:57 am

bläää

16:20-25 with one death. I hope to get a sub 16 at least. 15 may be possible too. But the boss fights can be very difficult to kill quickly. Thats were you shave the seconds.