Majora's Mask General Discussion

2008-11-12 04:52:27 pm

MrGrunz is a guay

After looking at my route again, I realize it sucks. SoTing back to CT is probably best after every dungeon. I'm still not sure if it would be better to beat woodfall in one or 2 parts though, as Tatl's blabbering is pretty long...

I have some questions about the snowhead slope superslide. Is it just a regular superslide up and hope you don't get blown off, or do you need to release some buttons at a certain time? How big is the window for error? 1 frame, 3 frames, 5 frames?

Suddoman

2008-11-12 07:27:04 pm

I still think that Blast Mask is do able. Your argument against it is that it takes too long, not as in the 3 day cycle is too short but the fact that its just annoying. Its not going to exceed the 7 or 9 hour limit on speed runs. I mean if the lullaby skip is possible outside of TAS then its do able with blast mask, it just takes longer. Blast Mask alone > then hookshot and bombchu, in a low% sense.

Now to devil's advict myself.
We could try and define low% as what ever is the lowest point amount currently (currently ~20 I think). Thusly you could get hookshot and bombchu but as soon as someone makes a blast mask only run (even if its like 2 more hours) it instantly beats it.

petrie911

2008-11-12 09:46:23 pm

Everybody loves Hypnotoad!

Quote from ZFG:

After looking at my route again, I realize it sucks. SoTing back to CT is probably best after every dungeon. I'm still not sure if it would be better to beat woodfall in one or 2 parts though, as Tatl's blabbering is pretty long...

I have some questions about the snowhead slope superslide. Is it just a regular superslide up and hope you don't get blown off, or do you need to release some buttons at a certain time? How big is the window for error? 1 frame, 3 frames, 5 frames?

You need to have the bom explode at the right time, and you have to bend the slide into the wall right before the next gust. Without Blast Mask or Bombchus, though, you must get all the way up the slope in one go. All in all, this is rather difficult to do even in slowdown, so...well, I don't know. I'd say give it a try, but it's probably going to be a problem.

mikwuyma

2008-11-12 10:31:34 pm

My feelings on The Demon Rush

Quote from petrie911:

You need to have the bom explode at the right time, and you have to bend the slide into the wall right before the next gust.

Oh come on, I'm the one who is drunk. Don't make me look good.

MrGrunz

2008-11-13 10:25:40 am

Merry Chrismas =)

petrie, do you have a any% single segment route?
I would fell like doing on for fun.

I think I could use lullaby skip with bombchu hover, but how much time does it exactly save?

climbing stone tower with bombchu hover should be also possible, but I'm very afraid of getting caught by the pirates. I've never tested it, but it would ruin the whole run.

what do you think?

petrie911

2008-11-13 11:18:01 am

Everybody loves Hypnotoad!

Quote from MrGrunz:

petrie, do you have a any% single segment route?
I would fell like doing on for fun.

I think I could use lullaby skip with bombchu hover, but how much time does it exactly save?

climbing stone tower with bombchu hover should be also possible, but I'm very afraid of getting caught by the pirates. I've never tested it, but it would ruin the whole run.

what do you think?

Well, if you're willing to do the lullaby skip, that changes the route a bit. I'd recommend against it for SS, though, as it's not particularly easy, and unless you think you can get the slide up the slope, a single missed bomb hover will end your run. Meanwhile, Stone Tower isn't that bad, and getting caught by pirates isn't too big of an issue, since you can just shoot them with arrows. Getting caught while entering/exiting the water in the Fortress exterior can be a problem, but there are safer, if slower, methods of getting into/out of the water.

The route's on page 26. It has segment breaks listed there, but obviously you just ignore those.

[quote="MrGrunz"]
petrie, do you have a any% single segment route?
I would fell like doing on for fun.

I think I could use lullaby skip with bombchu hover, but how much time does it exactly save?

climbing stone tower with bombchu hover should be also possible, but I'm very afraid of getting caught by the pirates. I've never tested it, but it would ruin the whole run.

what do you think?
[/quote]

Well, if you're willing to do the lullaby skip, that changes the route a bit.  I'd recommend against it for SS, though, as it's not particularly easy, and unless you think you can get the slide up the slope, a single missed bomb hover will end your run.  Meanwhile, Stone Tower isn't that bad, and getting caught by pirates isn't too big of an issue, since you can just shoot them with arrows.  Getting caught while entering/exiting the water in the Fortress exterior can be a problem, but there are safer, if slower, methods of getting into/out of the water.

The route's on page 26.  It has segment breaks listed there, but obviously you just ignore those.

MrGrunz

Edit history:

MrGrunz: 2008-11-13 12:36:45 pm

2008-11-13 11:45:49 am

Merry Chrismas =)

hmm, wrong warp glitch. that's probably to hard for me.

I'll make a playthrough now in order to see, what tricks are doable for me.

how does the normal octo skip soulcal used in his run work? It's probably pretty easy to figure out, but I'm too lazy to test it myself.

ok, I have an other question:
why do we have to get goron mask + lens of truth?
is it really faster?

Edit:
Do I really need the 99rupees from terminia field?
When I did my playthrough I collected 37rupees and then the clock tower cutscence started already.

petrie911

2008-11-13 06:23:33 pm

Everybody loves Hypnotoad!

You can probably live without those rupees. Just grab the ECT chest again on cycle 3.

Goron Mask is faster. I have little doubt about that.

Wrong warp glitch isn't that hard. All you have to do is chu hover against a wall.

The normal Octo skip is the one used in Mukki's TAS (soulcal used the game time octo skip). can't find a video at the moment, but you just goron roll off the Tourist center's platform and over the octo. Try to aim for the gap between its right side and the wall. It's significantly easier.

MrGrunz

2008-11-14 07:38:04 am

Merry Chrismas =)

my single segment run needs goron mask, because I won't skip lullaby, but I'm pretty sure it will be faster in swordless TAS, especially since the superslide trick has been discovered Wink

are the only places to get hot water the hole in mountain village and the place where you get goron mask?

petrie911

2008-11-14 01:40:05 pm

Everybody loves Hypnotoad!

There's one more, but it's in the Bottom of the Well.

The Goron Mask makes the Swamp go quite a bit faster, as you can't Superslide through the water. Snowhead Temple and Snowhead Access are both faster with it. The Goron bomb jump saves explosives on the trip to Ikana, and, perhaps most importantly, it's absolutely required for the Gold Dust bottle. Whether you're selling it for 200r or forging a Gilded Sword with it, that bottle is really important. Plus, the other bottles all take inordinately long. Madame Aroma's requires you to do most of the Kafei/Anju quest, the Beaver Races take at least 4 extra minutes, and the Graveyard bottle requires the Captain's Hat. Oh, and the first Wizrobe goes faster, too, as punches are the only way to do more than 4 damage to it in a single hit.

And don't forget that the new superslide trick makes getting the Goron Mask much faster, too.

MrGrunz

Edit history:

MrGrunz: 2008-11-14 05:43:14 pm

2008-11-14 04:30:02 pm

Merry Chrismas =)

yeah, you're right.

I'm after Snowhead temple in my playtrough now.Probably I won't get the bottle from the range. Mukki arrived at 2:30 at the Ranch. In my run it would probably be 3:40 or something. Is this too late?
My bow skills aren't the best, but that's not really the problem

Edit: I just noticed, that it is 10o'clock after Goron Race. I slowed down the in game time, btw.

that route will be pretty hard to do Sad

Edit2: Ok, Romany Ranch is much easier than I first thought. I'm going to get the bottle now Wink

Edit3: Is the Angled Long Jump in Stone Tower worth doing it?

MrSparkle

2008-11-14 09:48:46 pm

Doin Good

What angled long jump in Stone Tower? It's all a bunch of ISG hovers over blocks, really. You mean the recoil flips in the updraft room? Recoiling over that gap before flipping the temple? Is it worth doing? You are just aiming for completeing the temple, right? If so then no...

Right? :-[

EDIT : Wait you mean the hovering to the Eyegore platform? Isn't that very hard?

MrGrunz

Edit history:

MrGrunz: 2008-11-15 01:31:03 pm

2008-11-15 07:12:51 am

Merry Chrismas =)

Petrie's angled long jump trick in the first room of the inverted stone tower Wink

I'll probably do inverted stone tower like soulcal did in his run.

I want to get the sword upgrade, btw. That makes the run so much easier.

The main problem for my route is, that I don't know which route I should take for Snowhead. It's easy to miss the hole with the hot water in it and I only have one chance to do it. I still don't know if I should use wrong warp glitch, because the requires many bombchus.
If I get the Sword Upgrade I'll loose 300rupees. 100 for the upgrade and the other 200, because I wouldn't sell the golden thing in the bottle (don't know the name).

Edit: while I attemped to beat Majora's Mask (last boss) the first battle was a big problem. Is there a easy way to shoot Majora's Mask's backside? The way Mukki used is probably not really possible for me after 3 hours of running and being nervous Wink

Suddoman

2008-11-16 01:23:23 am

I have an interesting question.

What (excluding time constraints) can't be gotten in the 1st & 2nd three day cycles.

Obviously:
The All-Night Mask PoHs (is that the correct abbreviation?)
The Couple Mask PoH
The banker PoH (I know the only reason is time constraints but its too big of one not to point out)

I know there are a couple others but it would be interesting to see a 3-day challenge Max% run, if it could be allowed. Where one goes for the maximum amount of items in 3-days.

petrie911

2008-11-16 03:58:12 pm

Everybody loves Hypnotoad!

There's also the mutually exclusive stuff

Blast Mask/All-Night Mask
Keaton Mask/Couple's Mask/Bottle of Chateau
Keaton Mask/Couple's Mask/Postman's Hat/Heart Piece

You can only get one of those three sets of items.

Otherwise, though, there's a lot more time than you'd think. In fact, excepting the ones you just listed and the exclusive stuff, I think you might be able to get everything else.

Suddoman

2008-11-16 04:59:26 pm

Dang, a run for Max% seems almost bad without the ability to get the fierce dieties (spelling?) mask. But if we could do it, it would be an interesting run, hopefully it doesn't just turn into a "What is the best route for the second 3 day cycle, for a 100% run".

MrGrunz

Edit history:

MrGrunz: 2008-11-18 05:58:21 pm

2008-11-18 05:49:02 pm

Merry Chrismas =)

I'm so angry. I had a pretty nice attemp, which ended at the beginning of snowhead temple. when I tryed to play scarecrow's song, the song didn't want to work.
is the song cancelled after I play Song of Time? Lips Sealed

Suddoman

2008-11-18 08:04:38 pm

LOL
I believe it is. Which is why its allowed (according to petrie). Just do it normally.

petrie911

2008-11-19 12:47:39 am

Everybody loves Hypnotoad!

You don't actually need Scarecrow's for Snowhead, but the shot you need to make otherwise is quite difficult.

And yes, the Scarecrow's song is gone after the SoT.

Suddoman

2008-11-20 02:43:51 pm

I was wondering could you pull off a Low% run in one 3-day cycle. Not with the Blast Mas but with the hookshot.

MrGrunz

2008-11-20 03:03:56 pm

Merry Chrismas =)

yes

petrie911

2008-11-20 07:33:38 pm

Everybody loves Hypnotoad!

oh, certainly. You can fit a ton of stuff into one 3-day cycle. Just look at the game time run. Beats the game with a good 51:30 to spare.

SoulCalibrII

2008-11-23 07:29:57 pm

Wouldn't it be faster to not even bother with the Gilded Sword and just use a bunch of Deku Sticks for a Real Time speedrun? And when you get the Gold Dust, just sell it at the Curiosity Shop for money to purchase bombchus instead. This would save some time to not bother collecting rupees.

petrie911

2008-11-24 01:25:57 am

Everybody loves Hypnotoad!

Well, yes, except for the buying Deku Sticks part. Or at least it would be in a TAS. However, having the Gilded sword gives you a better buffer against mistakes against bosses. You also lose significantly more time against Gomess without the Gilded sword, as the Deku Nut method is probably too difficult for unassisted.

Basically, in principle it's faster to not get the Gilded sword, but in practice, it's a bit iffy.

MrGrunz

2008-11-24 07:24:28 am

Merry Chrismas =)

the main reason why getting the gilded sword is a lot slower are the 200 rupees you get for selling the gold dust and the 100 rupees you loose for the sword upgrade.

petrie, how much time does the wrong warp glitch actually save if I do not optimaze the hovers well?
I thought about doing the MM run segmented, but after about 100 trys I wasn't able to do the wrong warp glitch, but I've figured out, that there's an other cave in which you can get by hovering which also contains the lens of truth cave warp.