Majora's Mask General Discussion

petrie911

Edit history:

petrie911: 2008-11-05 11:05:23 pm

2008-11-05 10:04:46 pm

Everybody loves Hypnotoad!

Top one is interesting, but as you mentioned, it's rather costly in explosives. I'll see if I can do anything about that.

Second one...well, I sort of already knew about it. You can hook directly to the last tower from the ground, BTW, and a roll jump+jumpslash as a Zora gets you to the heart piece with the right angle.

EDIT: I can get it down to 13 explosives, not counting the one used for the initial goron bomb jump. That seems to be the limit though. Considering it doesn't save a whole lot of time, especially when not done with chus, we can probably forgo this one.

Suddoman

2008-11-07 07:39:49 pm

So just so I understand the list, for low%, thus far:

Required:
Masks: Deku Scrub Mask, Zora Mask
Songs: Song of Time, Song of Healing, Sonata of Awakening, New Wave Bossa, Oath of Order
C-Button: Arrows (Quiver/Hero's Bow), Fire Arrows, Light Arrows, Bottle (only 1), Bomb Bag

You also keep saying that you don't need the hookshot can you post a video of you getting on the turtle to get to the Great Bay Temple. I've also heard argument towards not using Goron Mask, is this true?

The run would also require either: Bombchus or Blast Mask.

Is this right?

MrSparkle

2008-11-07 07:47:34 pm

Doin Good

You don't need the Hookshot like you need those other items. You could replace it with the Blast Mask, a bomb bag upgrade, or chus. The Hookshot is just the fastest of the 3. While I am posting, could anyone link me to a good real time route? I may tinker with an SS out of boredom and see where it goes...

Oh and the Goron Mask is not needed. I'm pretty sure there are some bomb refills in Snowhead if it became an issue...

petrie911

Edit history:

petrie911: 2008-11-08 03:25:05 pm

2008-11-08 01:38:13 am

Everybody loves Hypnotoad!

It's a bit more like this...

[hr]
Masks: Deku Mask, Zora Mask

Songs: Song of Time, Song of Healing, Sonata of Awakening, New Wave Bossa Nova, Oath of Order

C-Button: Bow, Fire Arrows, Light Arrows, 1 Bottle, Bombs

Upgrades: Magic Meter

Choose 1 from: Blast Mask, Hookshot
[hr]

I don't think bombchus are sufficient to get up Stone Tower without the Hookshot.

EDIT: Turtle w/o Hookshot:

EDIT2: Real Time route. It's a bit crude, but it should give the general idea. Horizontal lines are good places to put segment breaks, which obviously don't apply to SS. They need not all be used. I'm also assuming no Lullaby skip. If the runner really feels he can do it, I'll put it back in. The main difference is getting the ECT chest on the third cycle and some adjustments to the Bomb shop trips.

Get to Clock Town
[hr]
Go to ECT
Use Deku Flower to get into inn
Have granny read 4 Giants twice
Go to WCT
Talk to Scarecrow to go to Night of Final Day
Go back to ECT, get 100r chest from inn
Get Fairy
Go to NCT, get Magic Meter
Go to WCT, deposit rupees
Go to ECT, exit to Termina Field
Collect 99r in Termina Field
Reenter WCT, deposit rupees
Go to SCT, backflip onto Clock Tower platform
Get OoT, SoT. Play SoT
[hr]
Get SoH, Deku Mask
Go get 100r chest from ECT
Deposit to get Adult's Wallet; withdraw 130r
Buy Bomb bag and 20 chus
Go to SCT and hit Owl statue*. Save.
[hr]
Exit SCT to Termina Field
Go to the Generic Pit
Wrong warp to the Lens of Truth cave
Get Lens of Truth
Make way to Mountain village
Hit Mountain village owl statue
Climb Graveyard Wall and get Goron Mask
Song of Time
[hr]
Go to WCT and withdraw all rupees
Buy 10b and 20c
Go to SCT and exit to Termina Field
Perform Cutscene skip
Go to Southern Swamp
Activate SS owl statue (if you want to save at it)*
[hr]
Go rescue Koume
Get Bottle
Go back to Swamp Tourist Center
[hr]
Perform Octo skip
Get Sonata (non-hover method)
Head to Woodfall
Get SoS along the way
Hit Woodfall Owl
Open Woodfall Temple
[hr]
Enter Woodfall
Fly to big flower room
Hover over gap to Deku platform room
Get Bow
(Get Boss Key?)
Warp out
Warp to Mountain Village
[hr]
Go to Goron Shrine; talk to Baby Goron
Go to frozen lake and hover into hot spring
Melt nearby goron elder, learn Lullaby Intro
Go back to Baby Goron, learn Goron Lullaby
Warp to CT
[hr]
Go to WCT, buy 10c
Exit to Termina Field
Goron Bomb Jump over Great Bay fence
Go get Zora Mask
Activate North Bay Owl statue
[hr]
Head to Pirate Fortress
Hover across gap
Get Hookshot
Get Zora Egg #1
Warp to Mountain village
Go to Snowhead
Play Goron Lullaby to open temple
[hr]
Complete Snowhead Temple
[hr]
Do Goron Race
Warp to CT
[hr]
Go do the Ranch for bottle 3
Warp to CT
Head to WCT, sell Gold Dust for 200r
Buy 20c
Go to SCT
[hr]
Go to Ikana Access
Scale wall with Goron bomb jump method
Continue to the top of Ikana Canyon
[hr]
Continue to Stone Tower
Climb the Tower
Activate Stone Tower Owl
Warp to CT
[hr]
Go to WCT
buy 20c
Warp back to ST
[hr]
Complete STT
Warp to CT
[hr]
Buy 10c
Warp to North Bay
[hr]
Get Zora Eggs #2,3,4 from Pirate Fortress
Warp to NB and deposit
[hr]
Get Zora Eggs #5,6,7 from Pinnacle Rock
Warp to NB and deposit
Learn NWBN
Head to South Bay
Activate Zora Cape Owl statue*
Play NWBN and open GBT
[hr]
Complete GBT
warp to Woodfall
[hr]
Complete Woodfall
Warp to CT
[hr]
Hover into Clock Tower
Complete Game

*In SS, you need not hit the Zora Cape, Ikana Canyon, Southern Swamp, or Snowhead Owl statues. Clock Town's Owl statue should be delayed until the beginning of the third cycle.

Time to shoot for in Seg'd is 2:15, with 2:30 being the max. For SS, shoot for 2:30, with 3:00 being the max.

It's a bit more like this...

[hr]
Masks: Deku Mask, Zora Mask

Songs: Song of Time, Song of Healing, Sonata of Awakening, New Wave Bossa Nova, Oath of Order

C-Button: Bow, Fire Arrows, Light Arrows, 1 Bottle, Bombs

Upgrades: Magic Meter

Choose 1 from: Blast Mask, Hookshot
[hr]

I don't think bombchus are sufficient to get up Stone Tower without the Hookshot.

EDIT: Turtle w/o Hookshot: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FCPOU7uMnGE

EDIT2:  Real Time route.  It's a bit crude, but it should give the general idea.  Horizontal lines are good places to put segment breaks, which obviously don't apply to SS.  They need not all be used.  I'm also assuming no Lullaby skip.  If the runner really feels he can do it, I'll put it back in.  The main difference is getting the ECT chest on the third cycle and some adjustments to the Bomb shop trips.

Get to Clock Town
[hr]
Go to ECT
Use Deku Flower to get into inn
Have granny read 4 Giants twice
Go to WCT
Talk to Scarecrow to go to Night of Final Day
Go back to ECT, get 100r chest from inn
Get Fairy
Go to NCT, get Magic Meter
Go to WCT, deposit rupees
Go to ECT, exit to Termina Field
Collect 99r in Termina Field
Reenter WCT, deposit rupees
Go to SCT, backflip onto Clock Tower platform
Get OoT, SoT.  Play SoT
[hr]
Get SoH, Deku Mask
Go get 100r chest from ECT
Deposit to get Adult's Wallet; withdraw 130r
Buy Bomb bag and 20 chus
Go to SCT and hit Owl statue*.  Save.
[hr]
Exit SCT to Termina Field
Go to the Generic Pit
Wrong warp to the Lens of Truth cave
Get Lens of Truth
Make way to Mountain village
Hit Mountain village owl statue
Climb Graveyard Wall and get Goron Mask
Song of Time
[hr]
Go to WCT and withdraw all rupees
Buy 10b and 20c
Go to SCT and exit to Termina Field
Perform Cutscene skip
Go to Southern Swamp
Activate SS owl statue (if you want to save at it)*
[hr]
Go rescue Koume
Get Bottle
Go back to Swamp Tourist Center
[hr]
Perform Octo skip
Get Sonata (non-hover method)
Head to Woodfall
Get SoS along the way
Hit Woodfall Owl
Open Woodfall Temple
[hr]
Enter Woodfall
Fly to big flower room
Hover over gap to Deku platform room
Get Bow
(Get Boss Key?)
Warp out
Warp to Mountain Village
[hr]
Go to Goron Shrine; talk to Baby Goron
Go to frozen lake and hover into hot spring
Melt nearby goron elder, learn Lullaby Intro
Go back to Baby Goron, learn Goron Lullaby
Warp to CT
[hr]
Go to WCT, buy 10c
Exit to Termina Field
Goron Bomb Jump over Great Bay fence
Go get Zora Mask
Activate North Bay Owl statue
[hr]
Head to Pirate Fortress
Hover across gap
Get Hookshot
Get Zora Egg #1
Warp to Mountain village
Go to Snowhead
Play Goron Lullaby to open temple
[hr]
Complete Snowhead Temple
[hr]
Do Goron Race
Warp to CT
[hr]
Go do the Ranch for bottle 3
Warp to CT
Head to WCT, sell Gold Dust for 200r
Buy 20c
Go to SCT
[hr]
Go to Ikana Access
Scale wall with Goron bomb jump method
Continue to the top of Ikana Canyon
[hr]
Continue to Stone Tower
Climb the Tower
Activate Stone Tower Owl
Warp to CT
[hr]
Go to WCT
buy 20c
Warp back to ST
[hr]
Complete STT
Warp to CT
[hr]
Buy 10c
Warp to North Bay
[hr]
Get Zora Eggs #2,3,4 from Pirate Fortress
Warp to NB and deposit
[hr]
Get Zora Eggs #5,6,7 from Pinnacle Rock
Warp to NB and deposit
Learn NWBN
Head to South Bay
Activate Zora Cape Owl statue*
Play NWBN and open GBT
[hr]
Complete GBT
warp to Woodfall
[hr]
Complete Woodfall
Warp to CT
[hr]
Hover into Clock Tower
Complete Game

*In SS, you need not hit the Zora Cape, Ikana Canyon, Southern Swamp, or Snowhead Owl statues.  Clock Town's Owl statue should be delayed until the beginning of the third cycle.

Time to shoot for in Seg'd is 2:15, with 2:30 being the max.  For SS, shoot for 2:30, with 3:00 being the max.

ZFG

2008-11-09 07:48:13 pm

MrGrunz is a guay

I started a low% file today. So far I have all items petrie mentioned you must have for a low% with the exeption of fire arrows. I beat great bay and stone tower (STT is a bit complicated, but fun...Maybe not fun if you're speedrunning it though)and got the bow from woofall and left. I'm at snowhead with no idea how I'm going to make it up with only 20 bombs (halp plz). Assuming you can get into snowhead with only 20 bombs, this low% is confirmed. I've also made a route for it if anyone wants it.

Botom line of this post: Petrie, go make a video of getting into snowhead with only 20 bombs, chop chop!

Toes

2008-11-09 08:12:48 pm

Quote from ZFG:

I started a low% file today. So far I have all items petrie mentioned you must have for a low% with the exeption of fire arrows. I beat great bay and stone tower (STT is a bit complicated, but fun...Maybe not fun if you're speedrunning it though)and got the bow from woofall and left. I'm at snowhead with no idea how I'm going to make it up with only 20 bombs (halp plz). Assuming you can get into snowhead with only 20 bombs, this low% is confirmed. I've also made a route for it if anyone wants it.

Botom line of this post: Petrie, go make a video of getting into snowhead with only 20 bombs, chop chop!

I'd say you either get the blast mask or use the superslide trick deemed TAS-only to slide up the slope.

petrie911

2008-11-09 08:20:26 pm

Everybody loves Hypnotoad!

Quote from ZFG:

I started a low% file today. So far I have all items petrie mentioned you must have for a low% with the exeption of fire arrows. I beat great bay and stone tower (STT is a bit complicated, but fun...Maybe not fun if you're speedrunning it though)and got the bow from woofall and left. I'm at snowhead with no idea how I'm going to make it up with only 20 bombs (halp plz). Assuming you can get into snowhead with only 20 bombs, this low% is confirmed. I've also made a route for it if anyone wants it.

Botom line of this post: Petrie, go make a video of getting into snowhead with only 20 bombs, chop chop!

How the hell did you get up to Stone Tower with only 20 bombs?

ZFG

2008-11-09 08:37:57 pm

MrGrunz is a guay

Quote from petrie911:

Quote from ZFG:

I started a low% file today. So far I have all items petrie mentioned you must have for a low% with the exeption of fire arrows. I beat great bay and stone tower (STT is a bit complicated, but fun...Maybe not fun if you're speedrunning it though)and got the bow from woofall and left. I'm at snowhead with no idea how I'm going to make it up with only 20 bombs (halp plz). Assuming you can get into snowhead with only 20 bombs, this low% is confirmed. I've also made a route for it if anyone wants it.

Botom line of this post: Petrie, go make a video of getting into snowhead with only 20 bombs, chop chop!

How the hell did you get up to Stone Tower with only 20 bombs?

Bomb pickup from the beamos after the first gap. You can make it to the owl with 2 bombs to spare.

I know I will probably end up having to do the superslide up the slope, but both Petrie's and SwordlessLink's videos use quite a few chus to get the rest of the way up. I need a substitute for that.

[quote="petrie911"]
[quote="ZFG"]
I started a low% file today.  So far I have all items petrie mentioned you must have for a low% with the exeption of fire arrows.  I beat great bay and stone tower (STT is a bit complicated, but fun...Maybe not fun if you're speedrunning it though)and got the bow from woofall and left.  I'm at snowhead with no idea how I'm going to make it up with only 20 bombs (halp plz).  Assuming you can get into snowhead with only 20 bombs, this low% is confirmed.  I've also made a route for it if anyone wants it.

Botom line of this post:  Petrie, go make a video of getting into snowhead with only 20 bombs, chop chop!
[/quote]

How the hell did you get up to Stone Tower with only 20 bombs?
[/quote]Bomb pickup from the beamos after the first gap.  You can make it to the owl with 2 bombs to spare.

I know I will probably end up having to do the superslide up the slope, but both Petrie's and SwordlessLink's videos use quite a few chus to get the rest of the way up.  I need a substitute for that.

petrie911

2008-11-09 08:40:49 pm

Everybody loves Hypnotoad!

OK...I take it that means you have the Hookshot.

ZFG

2008-11-09 08:52:02 pm

MrGrunz is a guay

How many times have we agreed that we need hookshot in the last 2 pages?

petrie911

2008-11-09 09:01:43 pm

Everybody loves Hypnotoad!

Ah. Well, that was the thing. If you look at my list, it says that you need 1 of the Hookshot or Blast Mask. As far as I can tell, they are interchangeable. While the Blast mask is significantly slower, I'm having trouble thinking of a feasible in real time way to enter Snowhead with only 20 bombs. Thus, Hookshot is obviously the item of choice for TAS, but Blast Mask may be better for real time.

ZFG

2008-11-09 09:22:02 pm

MrGrunz is a guay

...ouch. Well can you please explain how even a TAS could make it with 20 bombs? The wind would probably disrupt timing the bombs for a staircase hover so I don't see how you could get up the first part of the spiral.

petrie911

2008-11-09 10:19:40 pm

Everybody loves Hypnotoad!

superslide up the slope. boes can provide the damage for a staircase. That's one way for the TAS to do it.

ZFG

2008-11-09 10:41:01 pm

MrGrunz is a guay

I see...kinda...but I just came up with a theory that might work in real time. I'll test it soon.

ZFG

2008-11-10 01:30:51 pm

MrGrunz is a guay

So I think I have a way to do it on console. What you do is instead of going to the left side, you have to go to the right (is it possible to get to the right side with the superslide method?). Then go around until you pass the fairy fountain and get on the corner. It should be the corner before the edge where you will no longer be able to stay on the ledge and the wind will push you back. Then pull out your hookshot and aim at the spiral between the pillar that comes up from the ground and the walkway. Now turn around and pull out a bomb near the end of one of the gorons blows. When the bomb is about to explode the goron should be starting another blow, this is what you want. Now you need to shield drop and backflip the frame before it explodes (easily doable on console with pauses). If you did it right, you should be hovering in air because the wind pushed you forward a bit and the bomb blast stopped you. Now you need to do it again so that when you start going backwards you will have enough hieght to not fall back down. From there just bomb hover until you're about even with the spiral and try to sidehop onto it. I've gotten this with 20 bombs so far, which is a bit too much because we need 1 for the superslide. Petrie, since you're tha master of explososive-optimizing, can you please try to find the minimum number of bombs needed to get on the spiral? I have a bad feeling thus will end up using a risky wind boosted sidehop, but if it comes to that then I guess it will have to do. Sorry if its hard to understand, but its hard to explain it.

So I think I have a way to do it on console.  What you do is instead of going to the left side, you have to go to the right (is it possible to get to the right side with the superslide method?).  Then go around until you pass the fairy fountain and get on the corner.  It should be the corner before the edge where you will no longer be able to stay on the ledge and the wind will push you back.  Then pull out your hookshot and aim at the spiral between the pillar that comes up from the ground and  the walkway.  Now turn around and pull out a bomb near the end of one of the gorons blows.  When the bomb is about to explode the goron should be starting another blow, this is what you want.  Now you need to shield drop and backflip the frame before it explodes (easily doable on console with pauses).  If you did it right, you should be hovering in air because the wind pushed you forward a bit and the bomb blast stopped you.  Now you need to do it again so that when you start going backwards you will have enough hieght to not fall back down.  From there just bomb hover until you're about even with the spiral and try to sidehop onto it.  I've gotten this with 20 bombs so far, which is a bit too much because we need 1 for the superslide.  Petrie, since you're tha master of explososive-optimizing, can you please try to find the minimum number of bombs needed to get on the spiral?  I have a bad feeling thus will end up using a risky wind boosted sidehop, but if it comes to that then I guess it will have to do.  Sorry if its hard to understand, but its hard to explain it.

petrie911

2008-11-10 04:15:00 pm

Everybody loves Hypnotoad!

Well, there's always this...

Getting to the right side after the superslide is pretty straightforward, so don't worry about that.

I'll work on a video of an actually bombs-only method.

Suddoman

2008-11-11 02:56:18 pm

If your doing a low% for kicks just go get the blast mask and just say "Oops, next time I'll have to do it with Blast Mask and no hookshot."

My main concern with the entire run is Twinmold without Giant's Mask and no arrow upgrades. I'm going to have to practice this a lot.

EDIT: Also I was looking at pathing (if there's a better word say it) and I thought that getting bottle then blast mask then New Wave Bossa looks effective. When I'm coming back into the swamp though can I do the super backflip past the big octo and zora transform and make it without dying (assuming I have a fairy), or should I just do the old way of getting past the northern octo.

ZFG

2008-11-11 04:43:45 pm

MrGrunz is a guay

Quote from Suddoman:

If your doing a low% for kicks just go get the blast mask and just say "Oops, next time I'll have to do it with Blast Mask and no hookshot."

My main concern with the entire run is Twinmold without Giant's Mask and no arrow upgrades. I'm going to have to practice this a lot.

EDIT: Also I was looking at pathing (if there's a better word say it) and I thought that getting bottle then blast mask then New Wave Bossa looks effective. When I'm coming back into the swamp though can I do the super backflip past the big octo and zora transform and make it without dying (assuming I have a fairy), or should I just do the old way of getting past the northern octo.

Honestly I think hookshot should be gotten over blast mask in both TASes and unassisted runs. Sure, getting into snowhead might be a little easier, but climbing stone tower would be near impossible.

Heres what I think the route should look like

-normal first cycle
-get SoH, deku mask
-bomb bag
-go to swamp (can't completely skip cutscene without SoS so just watch it)
-get koume's bottle
-octo skip, either method
-deku palace (use this)
-sonata
-go to woodfall and open temple (don't get SoS)
-play up to bow
-deathwarp out
-backtrack all the way out of southern swamp
-superslide to great bay
-hover over the fence
-get zora mask
-go to pirates fortress
-work up to hookshot and get egg
-get caught twice and go back to lab
-get the rest of the eggs from the fortress and pinacle rock
-go to GBT and beat it
-exit great bay and go to snowhead
-lullaby skip
-beat snowhead *
-exit snowhead and go to ikana
-climb up stone tower
-beat stone tower **
-take ikana river to southern swamp
-up to woodfall
-finish woodfall
-back to clock town

*If you need bomb refills during snowhead, go to the bottom of the main room and get some from from the grass then deku or zora death warp in the lava. Also, I have a goron mask-less strat for ghot if anyone wants it

**After hovering to the temple, you will not have sufficient bombs to complete the temple. To solve this, when you enter the temple go in the left door instead of the right. Blow up the wall in that room and there will be 5 big crates. Behind them will be 2 small crates, each containing bomb refills.

Don't worry about twinmold. You should have about 5 light arrow shots with full magic, and if you use my route then you'll have fire arrows for the blue mold too. I beat him in my low% file on my 2nd try (dying on the first had nothing to do with my arrow amount) and I didn't even have fire arrows.

[quote="Suddoman"]
If your doing a low% for kicks just go get the blast mask and just say "Oops, next time I'll have to do it with Blast Mask and no hookshot."

My main concern with the entire run is Twinmold without Giant's Mask and no arrow upgrades. I'm going to have to practice this a lot.

EDIT: Also I was looking at pathing (if there's a better word say it) and I thought that getting bottle then blast mask then New Wave Bossa looks effective. When I'm coming back into the swamp though can I do the super backflip past the big octo and zora transform and make it without dying (assuming I have a fairy), or should I just do the old way of getting past the northern octo.
[/quote]Honestly I think hookshot should be gotten over blast mask in both TASes and unassisted runs.  Sure, getting into snowhead might be a little easier, but climbing stone tower would be near impossible.

Heres what I think the route should look like

-normal first cycle
-get SoH, deku mask
-bomb bag
-go to swamp (can't completely skip cutscene without SoS so just watch it)
-get koume's bottle
-octo skip, either method
-deku palace (use [url=http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=quEDZgBlP_0]this[/url])
-sonata
-go to woodfall and open temple (don't get SoS)
-play up to bow
-deathwarp out
-backtrack all the way out of southern swamp
-superslide to great bay
-hover over the fence
-get zora mask
-go to pirates fortress
-work up to hookshot and get egg
-get caught twice and go back to lab
-get the rest of the eggs from the fortress and pinacle rock
-go to GBT and beat it
-exit great bay and go to snowhead
-lullaby skip
-beat snowhead *
-exit snowhead and go to ikana
-climb up stone tower
-beat stone tower **
-take ikana river to southern swamp
-up to woodfall
-finish woodfall
-back to clock town

*If you need bomb refills during snowhead, go to the bottom of the main room and get some from from the grass then deku or zora death warp in the lava.  Also, I have a goron mask-less strat for ghot if anyone wants it

**After hovering to the temple, you will not have sufficient bombs to complete the temple.  To solve this, when you enter the temple go in the left door instead of the right.  Blow up the wall in that room and there will be 5 big crates.  Behind them will be 2 small crates, each containing bomb refills.

Don't worry about twinmold.  You should have about 5 light arrow shots with full magic, and if you use my route then you'll have fire arrows for the blue mold too.  I beat him in my low% file on my 2nd try (dying on the first had nothing to do with my arrow amount) and I didn't even have fire arrows.

petrie911

2008-11-11 08:06:52 pm

Everybody loves Hypnotoad!

We can skip the Skull Kid cutscene if we do Woodfall all in one go. In fact, it might even be worth doing wrong warp to the palace, although then bomb count becomes a serious issue.

Since we won't have SoS, one option is to complete each area individually, then SoT to get back to Clock Town. If we deposit 198 rupees during the first cycle, that's just short of enough for 70 bombs, which could easily be spread out over the 4 remaining cycles. On the one hand, this has the timing concerns of the clock tower opening at 0:00, 3rd day. However, we need not wait for the tower to open, so that's always a consideration.

Suddoman

2008-11-11 10:34:53 pm

I like your path my only change would be that I would get bottle then go get Blast Mask. After that I would get New Wave Bossa, beat Woodfall, then continue after your "-go to GBT and beat it". Can we backtrack from Woodfall temple without beating it? The octos will still be in the way, or am I (once again) missing something.

Also: Do you think it easier to climb snowhead with Hookshot, or Stone Tower with Blast Mask.

Toes

2008-11-11 10:45:52 pm

I'm sure it's better to keep the hookshot.
If you were to get the blast mask, you'd probably use up all of your bombs and waisting tons of time just getting to Ikana. Unless you only used the blast mask. And I'm sure Octoroks do not like glitchers.

petrie911

2008-11-12 01:12:45 am

Everybody loves Hypnotoad!

Quote from Toesrus:

I'm sure it's better to keep the hookshot.
If you were to get the blast mask, you'd probably use up all of your bombs and waisting tons of time just getting to Ikana. Unless you only used the blast mask. And I'm sure Octoroks do not like glitchers.

He'd be only using the Blast Mask, as he also has to get up to Stone Tower, which pretty much requires constant hovering all the way up. And Octoroks can be killed.

The main problem I have with ZFG's route is that there's a TON of backtracking. Woodfall temple -> Termina Field is a rather lengthy affair, as you have to get past the Octoroks again. Wrong warp to Termina Field would work but also take a long time, and I don't think you have the necessary explosives to reach the Bay Heart grotto from a generic grotto.

On the other hand, the alternatives are A) SoT directly back to CT after getting the Bow and B) SoT back after defeating Odolwa. The former requires you to go from Ikana to Woodfall, which again would take a fair amount of time, as there's a lot of Swamp to cross, as well as some catchup in Woodfall (However, considering that none of this is a loss over the suggested route, it's probably faster). The latter requires you to light the torch in the center platform, use a somewhat slower pre-Odolwa room strat, and listen to Tatl yammer on after the fight.

[quote="Toesrus"]
I'm sure it's better to keep the hookshot.
If you were to get the blast mask, you'd probably use up all of your bombs and waisting tons of time just getting to Ikana. Unless you only used the blast mask. And I'm sure Octoroks do not like glitchers.
[/quote]

He'd be only using the Blast Mask, as he also has to get up to Stone Tower, which pretty much requires constant hovering all the way up.  And Octoroks can be killed.

The main problem I have with ZFG's route is that there's a TON of backtracking.  Woodfall temple -> Termina Field is a rather lengthy affair, as you have to get past the Octoroks again.  Wrong warp to Termina Field would work but also take a long time, and I don't think you have the necessary explosives to reach the Bay Heart grotto from a generic grotto.

On the other hand, the alternatives are A) SoT directly back to CT after getting the Bow and B) SoT back after defeating Odolwa.  The former requires you to go from Ikana to Woodfall, which again would take a fair amount of time, as there's a lot of Swamp to cross, as well as some catchup in Woodfall (However, considering that none of this is a loss over the suggested route, it's probably faster).  The latter requires you to light the torch in the center platform, use a somewhat slower pre-Odolwa room strat, and listen to Tatl yammer on after the fight.

Suddoman

2008-11-12 02:11:04 am

My main liking of Blast Mask is simply the Lullaby Skip if someone gets good enough to do it without Blast Mask then go ahead.

MrSparkle

2008-11-12 10:34:26 am

Doin Good

The wrong warp trick would not be allowed at SDA, correct (Mysterious Warp)? Petrie is considering it's use in a low% route, and he made that real time SS route with it. Just thought I would check in on this, don't know if there was a ruling or anything of the sort...

Quote from Suddoman:

My main liking of Blast Mask is simply the Lullaby Skip if someone gets good enough to do it without Blast Mask then go ahead.

Why not just get Bombchu's, in that case?

petrie911

Edit history:

petrie911: 2008-11-12 10:49:49 am

2008-11-12 10:43:42 am

Everybody loves Hypnotoad!

According to the rules...

Quote:

Most glitches are now allowed, including the previously banned out of bounds (commonly referred to as OOB) and warping glitches. There are a few exceptions based on severity, such as The Legend of Zelda: A Link to the Past's up+down glitch which lets you skip the whole game, including Ganon.

Since I don't think Wrong Warp is severe enough to warrant a ban, we're probably fine.

And though you suggest getting bombchus, I still don't see how you'd get to Stone Tower with 20 bombs/20 chus. Keep in mind that, with no Hookshot, you have to...

-Hover from the base of Ikana Canyon to the top
-Hover all the way up Stone Tower

That's a very, very long ways. Even though you can completely restock bombs after reaching the Ikana Owl and Beamos usually give 5 bomb drops, I'm still highly skeptical that it's possible to make it.

Of course, if Hookshot alone and Blast Mask alone both prove infeasible for an unassisted run, Hookshot + Bombchus >>> Hookshot + Blast Mask (and Bombchus + Blast Mask isn't even worth considering).

According to the rules...
[quote]Most glitches are now allowed, including the previously banned out of bounds (commonly referred to as OOB) and warping glitches. There are a few exceptions based on severity, such as The Legend of Zelda: A Link to the Past's up+down glitch which lets you skip the whole game, including Ganon.[/quote]

Since I don't think Wrong Warp is severe enough to warrant a ban, we're probably fine.

And though you suggest getting bombchus, I still don't see how you'd get to Stone Tower with 20 bombs/20 chus.  Keep in mind that, with no Hookshot, you have to...

-Hover from the base of Ikana Canyon to the top
-Hover all the way up Stone Tower

That's a very, very long ways.  Even though you can completely restock bombs after reaching the Ikana Owl and Beamos usually give 5 bomb drops, I'm still highly skeptical that it's possible to make it.

Of course, if Hookshot alone and Blast Mask alone both prove infeasible for an unassisted run, Hookshot + Bombchus >>> Hookshot + Blast Mask (and Bombchus + Blast Mask isn't even worth considering).