To be honest it's kind of rare that she doesn't get knocked down when I roll on her, I don't know why we seem to be getting different results. I think there may be a difference in how often you get her down when rolling on her and when just jumping on her - have you tried rolling on her, or is that what you've already practised? And it's easy to land on her after some training, or at least it was for me. But of course, whatever works best for you.
SDA Forum
It's now second time I come across a strange "fly" bug in JK2. I'm not sure which exact conditions spark this thing off, but what I do know is that it has only happened to me (now two times) after I finished a recording and minimized jk2. Upon opening the jk2 window again, it happens. I also believe that you have to be alive when minimizing jk2, and I'm not sure if fraps has anything to do with it. Another thing is that it has only happened to me in the level artus_topside, and only when I was recording. (and yes, I'm currently improving the end of artus_topside; I can shave off about 2 seconds. I hope this is not too late to improve in the SDA run that's already been verified)
The usefulness of this thing is... I don't know. Your movement is limited to the bounds of the room you were in to begin with; your view is just spawned up to the ceiling of the level and then you slowly fall back down to the room you were in. As far as I remember, if you jump while this happens, you fall back down to your real location (this happened to me the first time the bug appeared to me). Unfortunately I didn't try using weapons while this happened, using thirdperson mode, nor anything else that could be interesting. I'm not sure how long time jk2 was minimized before I opened the window again, but in this case, I think not more than 10 minutes (damn it, why can't I remember?)
Even if this thing is replicable and somehow useful (perhaps you could "spawn" up to an end-level trigger in a level?), I'm not sure if it's allowable for whatever reasons (you have to minimize the game, likely even stop the recording when doing this, and then start recording again once entering the game).
Anyway, I decided to share this with the intention of helping others who might speedrun this game. Then they can look further into this bug and see if it has any value if it's even allowable in the first place. If not, it's an interesting find anyway.
Here's the vid:
The usefulness of this thing is... I don't know. Your movement is limited to the bounds of the room you were in to begin with; your view is just spawned up to the ceiling of the level and then you slowly fall back down to the room you were in. As far as I remember, if you jump while this happens, you fall back down to your real location (this happened to me the first time the bug appeared to me). Unfortunately I didn't try using weapons while this happened, using thirdperson mode, nor anything else that could be interesting. I'm not sure how long time jk2 was minimized before I opened the window again, but in this case, I think not more than 10 minutes (damn it, why can't I remember?)
Even if this thing is replicable and somehow useful (perhaps you could "spawn" up to an end-level trigger in a level?), I'm not sure if it's allowable for whatever reasons (you have to minimize the game, likely even stop the recording when doing this, and then start recording again once entering the game).
Anyway, I decided to share this with the intention of helping others who might speedrun this game. Then they can look further into this bug and see if it has any value if it's even allowable in the first place. If not, it's an interesting find anyway.
Here's the vid:
yep, I've had no luck in replicating this consistently. It's happened some more times, though, but all when I don't expect it. I can now confirm that it's not dependant on your recording in fraps, and it can happen without minimizing the jk2 window. For example, at some point when playing I pressed Esc to bring up the menu, and when I resumed playing then it happened. I'm not going to look into this further, though. It would take some time to figure out why and how it happens and finally whether it's at all useful. What I've done instead is improve the last three segments of artus_topside, saving 4 seconds 
edit: 5,5 secs saved in cairn_reactor. I'm two seconds from sub-43 minutes run according to my timing (incl. save penalties)
edit2: 7-9 seconds saved in kejim_base, depending on whether cutscenes are timed. Over a minute has been improved since first uploaded run to youtube and the final time incl. penalties is under 43 mins now according to my timing
edit: 5,5 secs saved in cairn_reactor. I'm two seconds from sub-43 minutes run according to my timing (incl. save penalties)
edit2: 7-9 seconds saved in kejim_base, depending on whether cutscenes are timed. Over a minute has been improved since first uploaded run to youtube and the final time incl. penalties is under 43 mins now according to my timing
Actually the speedrun was already verified, except these (so far) three new improvements that I'd like verified in addition. I don't know if or when that will happen though. and.. there's an incoming improvement in ns_starpad, so far 6 seconds. I found out that the neat convo skip that honorableJay showed earlier in the thread is also applicable another place in the level. Specifically in the hangar scene. So, I can make the enemy waves appear a little faster. Nonetheless, it's a painful segment because of the randomness involved. It seems completely random whether enemies spawn at one end of the hangar or another, and that's frustrating because I need the first wave of enemies to spawn in one end, the next in the other end, and then the final in the first end. Sometimes they even come at both ends at the same time! No good. In addition I have to survive the segment with no hp or shield loss because I don't have time to recharge shields. But the improvement will be worth it.
Same or more indeed, although same is always preferable (imo) to avoid nasty inconsistencies. The lucky thing here is that teh segment begins with 50/25 hp/shields and the one after that too begins with 50/25. That means I can save time by skipping recharging shields which I would do in the old segment and then jump straight to the enemy waves, saving some time although I have to be careful not to get hit at all.
edit: turns out the trouble was worth it after all. 11 seconds saved in the hangar scene by using the honorableJay-skip, smoothing things out, and picking up and using more thermal detonators
edit: turns out the trouble was worth it after all. 11 seconds saved in the hangar scene by using the honorableJay-skip, smoothing things out, and picking up and using more thermal detonators
Might be magic...
Activision and Raven Software have open sourced the code for Jedi Outcast and Jedi Academy:
http://www.phoronix.com/scan.php?page=news_item&px=MTM0MzA
http://www.phoronix.com/scan.php?page=news_item&px=MTM0MzA
Just rebought this game on Steam to have a play with it. Man, I have never been able to bunnyhop, in any game, ever, and I still suck at it. Watching myself attempt to play this game after seeing your run of it is like watching my dad try to play video games - it just frustrates me how inept I am!
By the way, a couple of things I wondered about:
* Did you ever try getting up onto the cliffs on artus_topside without using the elevator? Playing around with the super-speed you can get by toggling noclip on and off, it's easy to get up there just by giving yourself a lot of horizontal speed and hitting one of the slopes, but I have no idea whether you could even get close to it using speed from legit bunnyhopping (which I suck at).
* Did you ever experiment with using mines or sequencers to speed up the fights at the end of ns_starpad?
By the way, a couple of things I wondered about:
* Did you ever try getting up onto the cliffs on artus_topside without using the elevator? Playing around with the super-speed you can get by toggling noclip on and off, it's easy to get up there just by giving yourself a lot of horizontal speed and hitting one of the slopes, but I have no idea whether you could even get close to it using speed from legit bunnyhopping (which I suck at).
* Did you ever experiment with using mines or sequencers to speed up the fights at the end of ns_starpad?
Quote from ExplodingCabbage:
Just rebought this game on Steam to have a play with it. Man, I have never been able to bunnyhop, in any game, ever, and I still suck at it. Watching myself attempt to play this game after seeing your run of it is like watching my dad try to play video games - it just frustrates me how inept I am!
Don't worry too much, Recon's bunnyhopping is about as good as it gets. I've been at it for years and his run still blows my mind, heavily segmented or not.
But if you'd like to get better at bunnyhopping, I would reccomend trying out gamma jumping on Enemy Territory or Defrag on Quake 3. They are much more entertaining places to practice the technique.
Quote from ExplodingCabbage:
* Did you ever try getting up onto the cliffs on artus_topside without using the elevator? Playing around with the super-speed you can get by toggling noclip on and off, it's easy to get up there just by giving yourself a lot of horizontal speed and hitting one of the slopes, but I have no idea whether you could even get close to it using speed from legit bunnyhopping (which I suck at).
I attempted it once and felt it was a crazy idea for crazy people, but you never know.
gammadragon - good find, although it seems that the source was taken down again due to copyright issues, lol. But perhaps someone retrieved the source and could use his mad coding skills to explore the code for bugs or whatever that we haven't found. I assume that's the only usage of the source code of a game in the context of speed running.
ExplodingCabbage - artus_topside: good idea, and I remember playing with that as well but never succeded. But it will not save so much time mainly for the reason that you have to go to the big gate for the ATST to appear since you need to shoot it down for level progression. Still, it would give yet another cool trick to the run and save some seconds. I gave it a try again, and attached are my best attempts at it (l5jump). There's still a little to go, but it probably is possible! Future runners should experiment with this.
Speaking of that "sliding" jump thingy: if one could master it somehow, I think it's applicable in yavin_trial as well. But very difficult! The basic idea is to go grab force push, go back into the main room, and somehow build enough speed to jump up to the platform that has Force Speed. This would skip getting Force Pull and the annoying scene with pulling platforms out of the wall, and since you only need force push and speed for the insane lightsaber trick, you can manage without pull. See the l7trick file for details (I kind of fucked up in the vid, but you should get the main idea which is to jump up to the place with Force Speed.) I kind of doubt that this is possible, and even if it were, it wouldn't save amazing amounts of time. For coolness factor, though, it would be amazing to include in the run of an already spanked level.
And when you say ns_starpad, I assume you mean the arena thingy in the end of ns_hideout (because I already used detonators in the hangar scene of ns_starpad). I'm sure detonators would speed up destroying teh turrets, but not so much the humanoid alien thingies afterward. They spread over too much space too quickly, or at least they did for me, so I found using the saber was fastest. But there definitely is room for improvement in that segment of mine, so that's another thing future runners could work on.
Since I couldn't get the inbuilt file attachment system to work right now, I've uploaded the vids to youtube instead:
l5jump:
l7trick:
edit: LOL, seems like I forgot to turn off audio recording..
ExplodingCabbage - artus_topside: good idea, and I remember playing with that as well but never succeded. But it will not save so much time mainly for the reason that you have to go to the big gate for the ATST to appear since you need to shoot it down for level progression. Still, it would give yet another cool trick to the run and save some seconds. I gave it a try again, and attached are my best attempts at it (l5jump). There's still a little to go, but it probably is possible! Future runners should experiment with this.
Speaking of that "sliding" jump thingy: if one could master it somehow, I think it's applicable in yavin_trial as well. But very difficult! The basic idea is to go grab force push, go back into the main room, and somehow build enough speed to jump up to the platform that has Force Speed. This would skip getting Force Pull and the annoying scene with pulling platforms out of the wall, and since you only need force push and speed for the insane lightsaber trick, you can manage without pull. See the l7trick file for details (I kind of fucked up in the vid, but you should get the main idea which is to jump up to the place with Force Speed.) I kind of doubt that this is possible, and even if it were, it wouldn't save amazing amounts of time. For coolness factor, though, it would be amazing to include in the run of an already spanked level.
And when you say ns_starpad, I assume you mean the arena thingy in the end of ns_hideout (because I already used detonators in the hangar scene of ns_starpad). I'm sure detonators would speed up destroying teh turrets, but not so much the humanoid alien thingies afterward. They spread over too much space too quickly, or at least they did for me, so I found using the saber was fastest. But there definitely is room for improvement in that segment of mine, so that's another thing future runners could work on.
Since I couldn't get the inbuilt file attachment system to work right now, I've uploaded the vids to youtube instead:
l5jump:
l7trick:
edit: LOL, seems like I forgot to turn off audio recording..
Nah, I meant starpad. I was imagining you leaving mines or sequencers to kill either the third wave of enemies (you could leave the mines while fighting the first wave, and then head straight off towards the next objective after killing the second wave without needing to cross the hangar again?) or for the final wave that you kill using the turret to be able to instakill them when they spawn. It's just a thought and I haven't tested it to see whether it's faster or even viable.
So I'm new to Jedi Outcast speedrunning and have started giving it some RTA love with my buddy. During one of my runs I discovered that crouching in a zero gravity room after killing Galak Fyyarr makes you descend like twice as fast as normal. This also works in water, but seeing as that you avoid water at all costs it doesn't seem to have many applications other than in doom_shields.
Here is a video:
I haven't seen this used in any run that I've watched so I figured I would post it here in case this tech was unknown until now.
Here is a video:
I haven't seen this used in any run that I've watched so I figured I would post it here in case this tech was unknown until now.
Yeah, great find man. There's the first step toward beating my time.
The jump in artus_topside is probably possible, but very difficult. The trick in yavin_trials is probably impossible or will at the very least require some insanely precise jumping and what not. I'm not going to test them any further because I am satisfied with the way my run is now and i'm tired of running :p
With regard to the source code, I don't have any use for it, so no thank you. Perhaps some skilled programmers can look into it and somehow discover some glitches/bugs/whatever that can be useful to a speedrun, but that's certainly not me.
Quote from Endless:
So are those tricks certainly possible, recon?
Also, I have the source for Jedi Outcast and Jedi Academy on my computer; if you want it, let me know.
Also, I have the source for Jedi Outcast and Jedi Academy on my computer; if you want it, let me know.
The jump in artus_topside is probably possible, but very difficult. The trick in yavin_trials is probably impossible or will at the very least require some insanely precise jumping and what not. I'm not going to test them any further because I am satisfied with the way my run is now and i'm tired of running :p
With regard to the source code, I don't have any use for it, so no thank you. Perhaps some skilled programmers can look into it and somehow discover some glitches/bugs/whatever that can be useful to a speedrun, but that's certainly not me.
I don't know if anyone still visits this thread, but I figured I would share this. http://www.twitch.tv/kairosfractes/c/2572730
I triggered the end of doom_shields early, but I have no idea how. If anyone else would like to look into this, and make sure it isn't just my game acting up (again), that would be awesome.
I triggered the end of doom_shields early, but I have no idea how. If anyone else would like to look into this, and make sure it isn't just my game acting up (again), that would be awesome.
Might be magic...
Quote from kairos:
I triggered the end of doom_shields early, but I have no idea how. If anyone else would like to look into this, and make sure it isn't just my game acting up (again), that would be awesome.
Someone else was able to do this as well but also couldn't figure out why. It might be due to some random AI behaviour like a stormtrooper floating into the right location.
If you can figure out how it works, it could cut up to a minute off the level.
Well, it's reproducible. I just did it in a run, again :EEE It might be somewhat related to the cutscene skips that you can do by crouching into corners...
by the way, if any of you star wars runners use irc, come hop in #starwars on SRL
EDIT: breaking news, i figured out how to do the skip. apparently the endlevel gets triggered if an ENEMY passes through it. So, it's completely random if it happens, and thats +/- almost a minute on the whole level. :EEEEEE
by the way, if any of you star wars runners use irc, come hop in #starwars on SRL
EDIT: breaking news, i figured out how to do the skip. apparently the endlevel gets triggered if an ENEMY passes through it. So, it's completely random if it happens, and thats +/- almost a minute on the whole level. :EEEEEE
Great find, man. I've finally gotten the opportunity to test this out myself, and as I had anticipated I could not get it to work; the glitch just won't happen for me regardless of how many mobs are alive or how long I wait (and the glitch didn't ever happen while recording the particular segment in my run either). Probably this is because I've only tried this on Master difficulty whereas you have been running on Padawan mode IIRC. I could however easily confirm that the glitch indeed is caused by an NPC going into the room where one is supposed to go to trigger the levelend. Good fun.
Anyway, too bad that this glitch is so random for a SS run where it'd be damn cool to have. Maybe you can test out different settings where you try to kill as few stormtroopers as possible and what not, to try to increase your chances. Also, with this nice find which at first glance seems only to work on lower difficulties (I think Padawan and Jedi) and which surely should be possible to pull off in a segmented run, I am quite certain that my run on Jedi Master can be beaten (perhaps easily) on Padawan mode if anyone should be up to that, considering this trick+ lots of time saved in other levels. Sub 40 minutes anyone, gogo.
Graviton - thanks for pointing out. YouTube is a copyright hell these days. Now my run can't be watched on YouTube with that magnificent star wars music which in my opinion complemented the run greatly - it appears that most of the music tracks I included in the run have been added to YouTube's copyright list recently.. I'll get at remaking the video soon with either no music or some random (non-copyright) music added in for fun.
Anyway, too bad that this glitch is so random for a SS run where it'd be damn cool to have. Maybe you can test out different settings where you try to kill as few stormtroopers as possible and what not, to try to increase your chances. Also, with this nice find which at first glance seems only to work on lower difficulties (I think Padawan and Jedi) and which surely should be possible to pull off in a segmented run, I am quite certain that my run on Jedi Master can be beaten (perhaps easily) on Padawan mode if anyone should be up to that, considering this trick+ lots of time saved in other levels. Sub 40 minutes anyone, gogo.
Graviton - thanks for pointing out. YouTube is a copyright hell these days. Now my run can't be watched on YouTube with that magnificent star wars music which in my opinion complemented the run greatly - it appears that most of the music tracks I included in the run have been added to YouTube's copyright list recently.. I'll get at remaking the video soon with either no music or some random (non-copyright) music added in for fun.