Jedi Outcast - Jedi Master in ~43minutes by recon

hesto

2013-01-21 01:30:15 pm

Awesome bloopers, I laughed a lot Cheesy

Thinkshooter

2013-01-21 04:20:01 pm

Runs: FCP, FC3, XWA, HD1-2, KotOR1-2

You think you know a game, and you've seen a fast speedrun of it... Then this video comes along.

Congrats Recon Smiley

BTW this game runs quite well in stereo 3D using the old (pre-8000 series) nVidia cards and Forceware stereo. But it's a challenge to capture it -- Fraps only records Dx9 and later.

AdHoc

2013-01-21 06:55:19 pm

recon, thanks for the very detailed post, very much appreciated!

All the best for finally getting on SDA with this Smiley

LotBlind

2013-01-23 04:55:13 am

This run now has to be the consummation of SOMEthing. The bloopers reel did exactly what I thought it might. and it was nicely edited as well.

recon

Edit history:

recon: 2013-02-07 04:53:15 am

recon: 2013-01-29 12:29:38 pm

recon: 2013-01-27 02:03:06 pm

2013-01-25 07:10:51 am

Thanks people, I'm glad you liked it!

aaand, another improvement in the run, and I can assure you this is the last one, haha.
I shortened the second segment in kejim_base by almost three seconds by moving more smoothly. It's a segment I've been suspecting could be done faster easily, but only now did I actually try to improve it. And of course, it could be improved with a couple of hours of attempts.
A comparison can be seen here

Code:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YTBq4HSaJ1Q

edit: turns out I was a little too fast saying that was the last improvement Lips Sealed

Code:

http://youtu.be/MIOlBXgCndI

edit2: indeed.. I also managed to improve the last level by nearly 6 seconds:

Code:

http://youtu.be/ZB4v_PB6ZWA

edit3: perhaps it's a good thing that there's a significant time gap between submission and sending in verification files. At least for me. yes.. another improvement, and the best and most difficult one yet. Almost 12 seconds saved in ns_streets, a level I had not imagined I could do faster! I redid the whole level. The first segment is just optimized and saves around 2 secs. In the final two segments I employ a new method of getting onto the garbage collector - and without getting rid of more than 1 sniper beforehand. If you liked the sniper dodging part of my old speedrun, you'll surely like this new video...:

Code:

http://youtu.be/PI-xmCrLfjk

Thanks people, I'm glad you liked it!

aaand, another improvement in the run, and I can assure you this is the last one, haha. 
I shortened the second segment in kejim_base by almost three seconds by moving more smoothly. It's a segment I've been suspecting could be done faster easily, but only now did I actually try to improve it. And of course, it could be improved with a couple of hours of attempts.
A comparison can be seen here [code]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YTBq4HSaJ1Q[/code]

edit: turns out I was a little too fast saying that was the last improvement :-X
[code]http://youtu.be/MIOlBXgCndI[/code]

edit2: indeed.. I also managed to improve the last level by nearly 6 seconds:
[code]http://youtu.be/ZB4v_PB6ZWA[/code]

edit3: perhaps it's a good thing that there's a significant time gap between submission and sending in verification files. At least for me. yes.. another improvement, and the best and most difficult one yet. Almost 12 seconds saved in ns_streets, a level I had not imagined I could do faster! I redid the whole level. The first segment is just optimized and saves around 2 secs. In the final two segments I employ a new method of getting onto the garbage collector - and without getting rid of more than 1 sniper beforehand. If you liked the sniper dodging part of my old speedrun, you'll surely like this new video...:
[code]http://youtu.be/PI-xmCrLfjk[/code]

gammadragon

2013-02-08 12:27:13 am

Might be magic...

Awesome... did you find that ns_streets trick from this forum? If so I can say that I played a small part in one of my favourite runs on SDA :). Although technically it's different because you didn't have to jump on the rodian's head.

kairos

2013-02-08 09:07:35 pm

Man, recon. Glorious Cheesy

After that, I think I'll continue my work on a single-segment instead (unsure what difficulty). I don't think I could come close to what you did for a while :]

recon

2013-02-09 06:53:43 am

kairos - thank you. Single-segment sounds interesting, but obviously some difficult time savers would almost certainly need to be left out, and Jedi Master difficulty would be a very unsafe choice in my opinion - I'd go for Padawan to reduce chances of dying. Sub-hour should be possible somewhat easily, methinks. Be sure to post your thoughts/ideas about it so you can receive tips/suggestions/thoughts from me and others.

gammadragon - I actually ended up writing a little novel on how/why I redid ns_streets, but it didn't end up as relevant to your question as I thought it would be. Anyways, can be read in this spoiler:

A little background on why I came to redo this level: First I had wondered if I could get to the garbage collector faster and without using the passing hovercraft which I had to wait a little for in the existing video. I experimented a few times at jumping straight to the garbage collector without jumping on any rodian or hovercraft, and to my surprise I almost succeeded in one of my first few attempts. At this point I was fairly sure that I could make the jump, and after a lot more tries I finally managed to do it. It required a very precise turn-around and jumping on one of the window thingies, and I finally realized this after, well, probably hundreds of tries. When I realized this and used the strategy consistently I managed to do the jump several times in a row, which was nice since I no longer was so much dependent on luck to do the jump when recording the new segment. After I found this improved shortcut doable, I further wondered if I could survive the garbage ride without killing three rodians, which I did in the uploaded speedrun. I took a chance and planned to complete the level this way, saving a good amount of time in skipping the snipers and getting to the garbage ride faster.

Why did I redo the first segment then? You see, after I finally got onto the garbage collector as planned, I found out that the 30-some shields that I had from the first segment could use a boost, of course because of the very many snipers shooting at you on the garbage ride – this time there even were three more snipers to circumvent than in my existing speedrun, which was already hard. If I could manage to get to the garbage collector with full shields, I could maybe take a hit more from the snipers and increase my chances of surviving the ride with more than 39 hp and 1 shields, which the next level begins with – to ensure “consistency”. So, I redid the first segment, ending it with full hps and shields, which was rather difficult to do. In turn, I saved 2 secs in that segment. I then did the next segment as planned, involving the new jump to the garbage collector. The final segment containing the garbage ride was in fact not as difficult as I first thought it would be, and I even had two attempts pretty early on where I missed the exit by a few inches. Many attempts later, I found that it was the last part of the ride that was the hardest to not get hit on, because the collector is standing still in air briefly and close to two snipers, making it extra hard to prevent getting hit. I figured that if I could take down one of these snipers, my chances would be improved. Some attempts later I employed this strategy and finished the level getting hit only one time, finishing with 50 hps and 20 shield and no use of bacta, which I had used one of in the uploaded speedrun. Very lucky indeed. All in all, it was hard work to redo this level and save 12 seconds, but as always, if you keep practicing there’s nearly always room for improvement.

to answer your question: I definitely remember seeing some videos of that trick where you jump on the rodian’s head and on to the garbage collector, and I thought it was insanely cool. I just looked through the thread and found your and Saratura’s videos of the jump, and it’s certainly similar to the one I’m doing in my new video. I guess that, knowing that the jump was possible with the rodian – thanks to your and Saratura’s videos, I checked out the possibility of doing the jump without the rodian, which then paid off.

To be honest with you, I’m not completely sure about the importance of your and Saratura's videos, but either way, I’ll make sure to include your and Saratura’s name in the new run comments, at the very least for first discovering that the jump could be done with help from the rodian. As far as I understood, you found the actual trick, posting a video where you nearly succeeded in doing it, but saratura was first successful in doing it, proving it possible, and that's why I'd feature both your names.

kairos - thank you. Single-segment sounds interesting, but obviously some difficult time savers would almost certainly need to be left out, and Jedi Master difficulty would be a very unsafe choice in my opinion - I'd go for Padawan to reduce chances of dying. Sub-hour should be possible somewhat easily, methinks. Be sure to post your thoughts/ideas about it so you can receive tips/suggestions/thoughts from me and others.

gammadragon - I actually ended up writing a little novel on how/why I redid ns_streets, but it didn't end up as relevant to your question as I thought it would be. Anyways, can be read in this spoiler:
[hidden]
A little background on why I came to redo this level: First I had wondered if I could get to the garbage collector faster and without using the passing hovercraft which I had to wait a little for in the existing video. I experimented a few times at jumping straight to the garbage collector without jumping on any rodian or hovercraft, and to my surprise I almost succeeded in one of my first few attempts. At this point I was fairly sure that I could make the jump, and after a lot more tries I finally managed to do it. It required a very precise turn-around and jumping on one of the window thingies, and I finally realized this after, well, probably hundreds of tries. When I realized this and used the strategy consistently I managed to do the jump several times in a row, which was nice since I no longer was so much dependent on luck to do the jump when recording the new segment. After I found this improved shortcut doable, I further wondered if I could survive the garbage ride without killing three rodians, which I did in the uploaded speedrun. I took a chance and planned to complete the level this way, saving a good amount of time in skipping the snipers and getting to the garbage ride faster.

Why did I redo the first segment then? You see, after I finally got onto the garbage collector as planned, I found out that the 30-some shields that I had from the first segment could use a boost, of course because of the very many snipers shooting at you on the garbage ride – this time there even were three more snipers to circumvent than in my existing speedrun, which was already hard. If I could manage to get to the garbage collector with full shields, I could maybe take a hit more from the snipers and increase my chances of surviving the ride with more than 39 hp and 1 shields, which the next level begins with – to ensure “consistency”. So, I redid the first segment, ending it with full hps and shields, which was rather difficult to do. In turn, I saved 2 secs in that segment. I then did the next segment as planned, involving the new jump to the garbage collector. The final segment containing the garbage ride was in fact not as difficult as I first thought it would be, and I even had two attempts pretty early on where I missed the exit by a few inches. Many attempts later, I found that it was the last part of the ride that was the hardest to not get hit on, because the collector is standing still in air briefly and close to two snipers, making it extra hard to prevent getting hit. I figured that if I could take down one of these snipers, my chances would be improved. Some attempts later I employed this strategy and finished the level getting hit only one time, finishing with 50 hps and 20 shield and no use of bacta, which I had used one of in the uploaded speedrun. Very lucky indeed. All in all, it was hard work to redo this level and save 12 seconds, but as always, if you keep practicing there’s nearly always room for improvement.
[/hidden]
to answer your question: I definitely remember seeing some videos of that trick where you jump on the rodian’s head and on to the garbage collector, and I thought it was insanely cool. I just looked through the thread and found your and Saratura’s videos of the jump, and it’s certainly similar to the one I’m doing in my new video. I guess that, knowing that the jump was possible with the rodian – thanks to your and Saratura’s videos, I checked out the possibility of doing the jump without the rodian, which then paid off.

To be honest with you, I’m not completely sure about the importance of your and Saratura's videos, but either way, I’ll make sure to include your and Saratura’s name in the new run comments, at the very least for first discovering that the jump could be done with help from the rodian. As far as I understood, you found the actual trick, posting a video where you nearly succeeded in doing it, but saratura was first successful in doing it, proving it possible, and that's why I'd feature both your names.

gammadragon

2013-02-09 03:33:34 pm

Might be magic...

haha, thanks for the feedback. I think Sarutara was just about to do the ns_streets part of his run when you posted your full run and we thought it was a nice trick at the time, but really hard to pull off since the rodian had to be in the right spot. It's cool that you figured out how to make the jump without it Smiley

kairos

Edit history:

kairos: 2013-02-09 07:52:11 pm

2013-02-09 07:51:48 pm

Quote from recon:

some difficult time savers would almost certainly need to be left out, and Jedi Master difficulty would be a very unsafe choice in my opinion - I'd go for Padawan to reduce chances of dying

Well, if I remember SDA's rules, you can save a game with a +0.500 time penalty (are quicksaves allowed?). This can be used to get around that BS area in cairn_bay, the climbing junk. Padawan is probably the most prudent difficulty to speedrun a single-segment, too.

recon

2013-02-23 06:18:21 am

Actually, I think that some of the tricks in the speedrun are quite possible to pull off in SS. The climb in cairn_bay can be mastered with lots of practice, and so can the jump in ns_streets to the garbage collector. However it requires lots of practice to do it consistently. So far I've only done it like 5 times in a row. But if you learn the exact way of doing it, you can just keep practising and eventually get it in SS. The bad thing about this one in ns_streets is that the game's over if you miss the jump. I even consider the bespin_streets jump on the Reborn possible in SS, and the good thing here is that if you miss, you can just continue with the normal route of the map and kill the Reborn. Practising this jump can give you a good success rate, I've found. However, the height of the Reborn's jump, direction etc. seem to slightly differ from time to time, so I think it rquires some more investigation.

Speaking of the awesome level that is bespin_streets... I've found an insanely cool skip. It doesn't save a lot of time - I've only saved 2.4 seconds with it so far - but it's just the kind of shortcut that spices things up and makes the run so much cooler. I'm unhappy I didn't discover it before sending in verification files Tongue

I reckon it can save 3-4, maybe even 5 seconds if done optimally. The execution in my video is sub-optimal for a few reasons, one of them being that my jump from the Reborn is kind of bad since I roll when I land, which loses some time.

Check it out:

Actually, I think that some of the tricks in the speedrun are quite possible to pull off in SS. The climb in cairn_bay can be mastered with lots of practice, and so can the jump in ns_streets to the garbage collector. However it requires lots of practice to do it consistently. So far I've only done it like 5 times in a row. But if you learn the exact way of doing it, you can just keep practising and eventually get it in SS. The bad thing about this one in ns_streets is that the game's over if you miss the jump. I even consider the bespin_streets jump on the Reborn possible in SS, and the good thing here is that if you miss, you can just continue with the normal route of the map and kill the Reborn. Practising this jump can give you a good success rate, I've found. However, the height of the Reborn's jump, direction etc. seem to slightly differ from time to time, so I think it rquires some more investigation.

Speaking of the awesome level that is bespin_streets... I've found an insanely cool skip. It doesn't save a lot of time - I've only saved 2.4 seconds with it so far - but it's just the kind of shortcut that spices things up and makes the run so much cooler. I'm unhappy I didn't discover it before sending in verification files :P I reckon it can save 3-4, maybe even 5 seconds if done optimally. The execution in my video is sub-optimal for a few reasons, one of them being that my jump from the Reborn is kind of bad since I roll when I land, which loses some time.

Check it out:
http://youtu.be/zQaPWs-c-Bo

ExplodingCabbage

2013-02-23 08:03:07 am

Quote from recon:

I'm unhappy I didn't discover it before sending in verification files Tongue

Don't worry, it's not too late to make a change. Smiley

recon

2013-02-23 08:58:50 am

Ah okay, that's relieving to hear. I'll consider redoing most of that level then. When would be too late to submit the change?

ExplodingCabbage

2013-02-23 10:06:20 am

Quote from recon:

Ah okay, that's relieving to hear. I'll consider redoing most of that level then. When would be too late to submit the change?

Never, really. Heck, I've improved segments of someone else's segmented run before after it was already on the site (with the original runner's permission) and that was allowed (with an extra round of verification). If the run already has verifiers, though, do it ASAP or ask Flip to tell the verifiers to hold off for a bit until you make the change; otherwise the verifiers will end up having to write second responses covering the changed bits which is irritating for them and leaves you with a messy first post in the verification thread.

recon

2013-02-23 11:14:34 am

Have contacted Flip - the run is already being verified as we speak, as far as I know. Thanks for the tip.

kairos

Edit history:

kairos: 2013-02-23 12:16:46 pm

2013-02-23 11:55:32 am

Quote from recon:

Check it out:

:EEEEEEE Great find!

I think I'm finally understanding the insanity of trying to SS this run [: The best run I've nailed so far is a 1:07:01, but landing all the hard shortcuts in a run is getting ridiculous. Practice, practice, practice.

EDIT: I normally use this ns_streets jump, it seems to be far more consistent for me. https://dl.dropbox.com/u/108706151/ns_streets_alt.mp4

recon

2013-02-23 01:37:22 pm

That's cool, you almost beat LLCoolDave's old segmented run. Was that run using 'the climb' in cairn_bay, and did you use any other shortcuts such as the one you uploaded of Ns_streets? And I definitely understand if you will be using that one in ns_streets instead of the one I'm doing in my run, since it's much easier to master and isn't that much slower.

gammadragon

2013-02-23 01:40:39 pm

Might be magic...

Gosh, this run keeps getting better and better. Also like the idea of a single-segment run... there are a few points which could get hairy!

kairos

2013-02-23 01:57:06 pm

Quote from recon:

That's cool, you almost beat LLCoolDave's old segmented run. Was that run using 'the climb' in cairn_bay, and did you use any other shortcuts such as the one you uploaded of Ns_streets?

Thanks! It's still not incredible, hopefully I can get around 50min or so. And yes, I did use "the climb", but I died twice. I'm certain I used some minor shortcuts I haven't seen elsewhere, but I can't think of them off the top of my head. Most of my problems are coming from killing Tavion. For some reason, it boils down to complete luck when I battle her. Is there some sort of strat I'm missing there? The best I've come up with is push her down when she jumps, then slash her on the ground. Time consuming, but works. I guess.

recon

2013-02-23 02:03:17 pm

I've had much luck killing Tavion with the simple strategy of jumping on top of her - this makes her fall to the ground. Then you can just slash her to death with the saber, and maybe use force speed if you want extra time. It can take some tries to land on her, though. But definitely worth trying. You can also use explosives once she's on the ground - Bacn did this in his speedrun, and that was pretty cool and seemed like a good strat.

kairos

Edit history:

kairos: 2013-02-23 02:04:11 pm

2013-02-23 02:03:51 pm

Tavion rarely falls down when I jump on her. She just flinches then keeps running on her merry way [:

recon

2013-02-23 02:14:15 pm

Yeah, my bad, I thought it was 100 % chance she fell when you jumped on her. Just tested it, and there were a few times where she didn't fall. But if you practise jumping on her multiple times, she'll fall at some point. I still think making her fall by jumping on her is one of the safest and fastest strategies since you only have the yellow stance to do damage with, and she's completely vulnerable while on the ground.

and for what it's worth, here's a completely different strategy, although perhaps a bit more dangerous:
if you switch to an explosive, e.g. a thermal detonator, while in the battle, she will start throwing her saber at you pretty often. Just try to avoid getting hit, and while she's throwing the saber, you can throw your detonator at her without any chance of her pushing it back at you. If you're lucky, she's taken to the ground with this explosive and then you can throw more detonators at her, or use the saber or whatever. It's a bit more dangerous, but worth checking out imo.

Yeah, my bad, I thought it was 100 % chance she fell when you jumped on her. Just tested it, and there were a few times where she didn't fall. But if you practise jumping on her multiple times, she'll fall at some point. I still think making her fall by jumping on her is one of the safest and fastest strategies since you only have the yellow stance to do damage with, and she's completely vulnerable while on the ground.

and for what it's worth, here's a completely different strategy, although perhaps a bit more dangerous:
if you switch to an explosive, e.g. a thermal detonator, while in the battle, she will start throwing her saber at you pretty often. Just try to avoid getting hit, and while she's throwing the saber, you can throw your detonator at her without any chance of her pushing it back at you. If you're lucky, she's taken to the ground with this explosive and then you can throw more detonators at her, or use the saber or whatever. It's a bit more dangerous, but worth checking out imo.

kairos

Edit history:

kairos: 2013-02-23 02:20:04 pm

2013-02-23 02:15:41 pm

The explosives idea seems sound. Though, I think she can still push them away regardless of her throwing the saber. I'll go try it, brb

edit: Nope, you were right. The explosives idea worked excellently.

recon

2013-02-23 02:26:14 pm

Good to hear. Although I gotta say it's still a risky strategy if you ask me. Sometimes she uses force lightning, and that just messes things up, and there's still a risk of getting hit by her thrown saber. I still think your best bet is to master jumping on top of her and just have at her when she's on the ground. You can use this strategy right from the beginning of the fight, and if you use your saber wisely (and with luck), you can have her down the first time she falls to the ground. If you want an idea of this, take a look at the attached vid, it's the fastest way I've found to take her down.

Attachment:

tavion_HQ.mp4

kairos

2013-02-23 02:28:27 pm

I'm not near consistent enough to jump on her head (or get lucky enough to knock her down :d). Excellent poke though.