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Edit history:
Enhasa: 2005-12-28 11:12:13 pm
everybody wanna tell you the meaning of music
Well, although there is only one overall route, there are all sorts of minor ways you can do something faster, some sequence breaks, and skipping of enemies. I don't believe in hoarding info as you can see. I was just wondering about you because some people feel guilty improving a time if they are just copying someone else's run.

I think I do hit the shadows while they're down, but mostly I just try to prevent them from taking Yorda, so I hit whoever's closest. Theoretically that means I take slightly longer than I should, because it takes time to run to a different enemy, I can't count hits as well, and since I spread out my killing, enemies can harrass me for longer before they're dead. Of course, having to save Yorda wastes much more time, so it's about striking a balance.

About compression, I don't care about quality because it's a demo and I already know what's going on anyway. I recommend x264 for personal, non-SDA use anyway, but it compresses much better than anything else as well. Try moving the quality slider until it's as small as you need.

Sad to say, when PS2 TAS'ing exists, they will be able to do Ico much better than we would ever be able to.

Anyway, you seem like me: you're dedicated to the game, but you don't really care who gets the credit for actually doing the run. Well, I'm going to send what I have to Nate (if nothing else because it contains the intro and ending and I wouldn't have to do that again). I'll try sub2 in several weeks, see how that goes, and depending on that, you can see if you would like to try improving further. I get the impression that since you're not ultra-competitive, if I get sub2 and I'm more or less completely satisfied, you'll probably leave it as is and go work on another game. Wink

Edit: You know, because of this, you should probably try getting what you have online in a week or two, so I can see if you know anything I don't. I guess we could count how many of those shadows there are in that fight too. Don't stress over the encoding quality; I'm used to watching LQ anyway.
Fucking Weeaboo
I don't count his either on the shadows, I just watch their eyes.  When their eyes disappear, they're dead.

I'm not worried about quality, but file size.  When I did my MM7 runs it was about 680MB or so.  DivX is a pain in the ass to work with, and XviD isn't much better.  DivX used to be good around 5.11 but then they changed how things worked and drove me up the wall.  Ugh.

I'll take some time later to not only compress what I have, but maybe redo the ICO-only section and use that for the compression just to show how I do it.
...
I thought Ico timed the game for you. Is the in-game timer broken or did they just add that in the PAL version?
Fucking Weeaboo
It times it yes, but it doesn't show the timer at the end, which makes it worthless to us.
everybody wanna tell you the meaning of music
To add to what Sir VG said: it only times you when you save, which doesn't help for SS.

Sir VG, use x264 like I said above. It's really easy to use; all you do is move this slider from high quality/size to low quality/size. I'd like to see this rather soon. At the very least, I'd like to know how many shadows are in that fight at the end.
...
Quote:
It times it yes, but it doesn't show the timer at the end, which makes it worthless to us.


Umm, yes it does. After the credits roll, Ico is on the beach, then you walk around for a while and find Yorda, the game ends and asks you to save (yes/no). Then you save and see the final time. Afterwards, if you would load that very save, you would start at the beginning again with the runes translated into English. It only saves if you selected New Game in the main menu, it doesn't work on second playthroughs (rune saves).

By the way, I got 02:22:21. Only one second too quick. Cheesy
everybody wanna tell you the meaning of music
Oh yes, then. All the extra features like controlling Yorda, the rune translations, eating the watermelons at the end, the film effects, the lightsaber, and whatever else are PAL only.
Fucking Weeaboo
Yeah, the US players got screwed.  I need to get a hold of a foreign version of this game.
Edit history:
Blublu: 2006-01-03 02:54:03 am
...
Hey, I just tried my hands on a single-segment just for fun (without recording), and my times were:

Real-time according to SDA standards (start -> kill queen):
2:10:51

But the in-game timer said:
2:17:52

I think the end credits cutscene count towards the in-game timer because the time when I saved at the last save-point was 1:32:51 but the real-time when gaining control of Ico at the hanging cage section was 1:39:00.

My big mistakes were: Taking far too many tries (like 8 or so) when getting on top of the spinning waterwheel in the waterfall section, missing a bomb where you had to light it and throw to make a bridge, getting Yorda captured in the room with the big candle chandelier, dying once in the hanging cage section, and falling down from the spinning gears FIVE TIMES!!! Yes, no joke, I fell down FIVE times. Then I died twice in the Queen fight, but at least I got some good practise if I should decide to actually record a run (I doubt it, I got super lucky on that attempt since I wasn't recording and I HATE Yorda).

I absolutely SUCK in the part where you have to kill all those annoying shadows in the room where you start. Oh well. Edit: Oh, and this was all on the PAL version. That's how I got the in-game end time.

They should have included a special mini-game called "kill Yorda", where you would get to kill Yorda in all sorts of gruesome entertaining ways. 8)
Fucking Weeaboo
I've killed Yorda in some interesting ways.

Remember on the Stone Corner (just after the sewers)  you have to have Yorda on the sliding platform and then pull the lever to get her across?  Well, apparantly one time, she was standing about half on the edge of that and half on the edge of the ledge when I pulled the lever.  I didn't realize this until AFTER I pulled the lever when the camera zoomed back to her, and all I saw was a white streak falling to the bottom of the screen.

Oops. ^^;;
Edit history:
Enhasa: 2006-01-11 07:19:08 am
everybody wanna tell you the meaning of music
Don't know why I forgot to post this here, but I found a site with Ico times and posted it in the Japanese timeattack thread in general chat. At first, I was ecstatic, because I thought it was 2:06 to beat the Queen until I ran it through google translate. Since it doesn't track Queen time, going by last save point the almost 1:33 beats my time of almost 1:40 by about 7 minutes, so I'm guessing about 1:53 or so. Keep in mind that this was segmented, or else I'd feel pretty bad.

I'll probably try this again in a couple weeks. I'll be more than satisfied if I can get sub 2 hours. I think it's gonna involve one part that almost never works, but it's relatively near the beginning. If I can stomach restarting so many times that is. Maybe it's not that feasible SS.
Fucking Weeaboo
I ran the &#65296;&#65298;&#65306;&#65296;&#65302;&#65306;&#65299;&#65304; listing through Babelfish and it translated as "Sandy Beach" meaning that time is the final save.  Knock off about 9-10 minutes for the ending, and under 2 hrs is feasable.

I haven't tried doing another run in a while, I guess I just need to figure out where I can cut time to compete with you.  As I said before, mine was ~2:07 at the death of the queen, but I only probably had 3 minutes of errors (I have not timed that though) so that run even perfect would still be over 2hrs.  If I ever get it digitized, I'll let you know so you can say where I can shave time (besides better fighting).
I love YaBB 1G - SP1!
to keep this alive, I'm also planning on at least trying an ico speedrun.

First time I played the game, I finished it in about 6~7 hours. Second time (the day after), 3 hours in a single segment run, including viewing all the cutscenes. After it, I noticed alot of things that I could improve on, so I'm gonna work on that now.

One thing that seems to take alot of time for me, is that damned battle with all the shadows near the end. Is there some uberfast strategy I'm not knowing off?

And If I did a speedrun (Pal), would you prefer it with or without the lightsabre?
Fucking Weeaboo
Considering when you get it, there's no point.  It's like us skipping the mace.  By the time you get it, it's about game over.

And good luck, considering that considering how good I consider myself at it, even I didn't have the fastest time and still had deaths. ( ;_; ).
...
I think the game should be run on the "first" playthrough, meaning you get the mace instead of lightsaber. The only real significant difference (for speedrun purposes anyway) is the mace->lightsaber, and frankly I don't like the saber. It looks really silly when holding Yorda's hand (almost every time you are not solving some puzzle).

Getting the mace or not should be up to whomever makes the speedrun, which really means it should be collected if it actually saves any time. I'm not sure how long it takes to get it, it doesn't seem to me like it takes that much time so it might be better in the long run to be able to kill the shadows faster. There are not that many mandatory shadow fights after the mace, though. Someone said there are none but this is not true at least in the PAL version. There are in fact at least 2 mandatory shadow fights between the mace and the magic sword (both in the second tower or whatever you call it, the place where you open the circular openings and make the sun shine through).
Fucking Weeaboo
Quote:
Getting the mace or not should be up to whomever makes the speedrun, which really means it should be collected if it actually saves any time. I'm not sure how long it takes to get it, it doesn't seem to me like it takes that much time so it might be better in the long run to be able to kill the shadows faster. There are not that many mandatory shadow fights after the mace, though. Someone said there are none but this is not true at least in the PAL version. There are in fact at least 2 mandatory shadow fights between the mace and the magic sword (both in the second tower or whatever you call it, the place where you open the circular openings and make the sun shine through).


The only one I think is mandatory is the room in the back of the tower with the rising stairs.  The room on the holographic hallway can be run from.  I can't think of another manditory battle.  The mace wouldn't save enough to make it worth it, IMO, no matter how good you are.
Edit history:
Neko: 2006-01-21 11:50:27 pm
I love YaBB 1G - SP1!
the battle at the top of the trolley...is it skippable? Or do the shadows follow you all the way to the crane?

I'm actually doing pretty good if I follow these times

http://members.at.infoseek.co.jp/darunyan/ico/timeattack.htm

First save I was 16 seconds slower, but by skipping the 2nd one I was able to get an 11:14 at the 3rd save. I was able to skip the entire battle in the room with the chain, so that saved me alot of time.
Fucking Weeaboo
No, it is not skippable.
everybody wanna tell you the meaning of music
Quote:
One thing that seems to take alot of time for me, is that damned battle with all the shadows near the end. Is there some uberfast strategy I'm not knowing off?

And If I did a speedrun (Pal), would you prefer it with or without the lightsabre?

Ha, that battle is actually much slower in the US version. You have more guys to kill, and they're much less agressive.

Like others have said, lightsaber's irrelevant since there's no way it's faster. Sir VG is right, there's that one fight.

If you're doing the PAL version, please do a 2 player run. Ico is actually one game where it would be much quicker PAL vs NTSC.

Quote:
the battle at the top of the trolley...is it skippable? Or do the shadows follow you all the way to the crane?

Actually, yes it is skippable, but it's extremely rare. I've done it once in >100 tries by now. I was originally going to include it SS since it's near the beginning, but unless there's something I don't know, there's no way. They follow you all the way to the trolley, then you can leave them behind.

As for me, I've been really busy, but I put some more work into this. First off, I am fairly certain there are exactly 53 shadows in the end fight. Not only did I count them all, later I panned around and looked at the coffins and there's 54, including Ico's. I discovered a minor sequence break at the end (my middle name is danger), a couple more fights to skip, as well as some other junk. I will hopefully record this within a month.

The only thing that bugs me is, in the 2:02, there was no moment that was all that dangerous in and of itself. Of course, the whole thing put together is dangerous, because you can only multiply 95% so many times before the probability of success starts getting low. But since I want to include these new things, some of them are 50% or so, which I bet will be some sort of annoying.
Fucking Weeaboo
You actually managed to skip it once in a blue moon?  Cool.

I got my tapes digitized onto DVD, so I can possibly show you my ICO-only section (deaths and all!) at some point, if you still want to see it.
Edit history:
Enhasa: 2006-02-03 11:59:59 pm
everybody wanna tell you the meaning of music
More like once in a Halley's comet. Tongue Anyway, the idea is to jump down where the ladder is with both Ico and Yorda, without actually using the ladder. That part is extremely rare in and of itself. Once that's ok, making it to the trolley and leaving is not easy either, since you need to actually pull Yorda onto the trolley. If anyone could find a way to semi-consistently do this, I would be most grateful.

I get the feeling that all the endgame time you might save on me is strictly in the shadow fight, since the rest of it I'm pretty sure is near optimized. You could post the video, or you could just tell me how you do that fight. Do you use Dr. Ian's strategy? Does that work in the US version? I never got around to testing that.
Fucking Weeaboo
I haven't watched anything in regards to Ian's videos.  Everything I did I did on my own.
everybody wanna tell you the meaning of music
For both FF2 and Ico, there were videos available for me to watch and get ideas, and in neither of them did I actually learn anything that I could use. (This is becoming a burgeoning curse or something. Tongue Except that it allows me to say that I came up with everything myself, I guess.) FF2 makes sense because Peter's run was based in part on the comments I originally posted, and Ico, well... let's blame half of that on being the PAL version and the other half on being more entertaining than serious. Wink

Anyway, what he does is stand on the ground level by the corner of the side stairs and walkway. He then just lets everyone come to him and kills them that way. He even talks about how boring it is. The PAL version is a LOT easier because there are less shadows but also because PAL shadows are much more aggressive.
Edit history:
Enhasa: 2006-02-16 06:01:48 am
everybody wanna tell you the meaning of music
Well, I've resumed recording of Ico tonight. I'm posting now and might be updating in the future to vent (and let my hand recover from punching the wall). The thing that bugs me about this game for running is that you can do the exact same thing (and I mean exact, not "I did the same thing") and get wildly different results due to how random everything is.

I'm honestly not sure how I had no deaths during my 2nd serious attempt back in December.

Anyway, if anyone is playing at home and can tell me how this compares, I can get to the windmill in 23 minutes. I recorded 2:02 back in December and I'm shooting for sub 2 now at least. I estimate if everything went well I could get 1:58 or so, but I will be done and submit once I can sub 2.

Edit 1: I swear when I was practicing the graveyard was 50%, not 20%. The strange thing about Ico is that it doesn't ever feel like practicing makes the tough parts any more likely.

Edit 2: One last try tonight, then I have to do something else to clear my mind.

Edit 3: Well, I just had what I thought was a pretty damn good run end in horrible death. I thought it would have been great to actually succeed in the one last try I gave myself, but this one stings the most because it was completely my fault. I should have known that those circular rims you climb on in the towers count as both rooms. Anyway, my time was 40 minutes to dislodge the sword and then die a Yorda vaporizing death. Sir VG or anyone else, do you have times to compare to?

Final Edit: I just remembered this page with the Japanese time attack. I not going to count my chickens yet, but I was beating the Japanese segmented time by 2-3 minutes, which saved at 42:02 at east refractor.

I don't understand some of their times though. Can they skip cutscenes like the Europeans? Because the first save says 4:43. Whenever I save there (granted I haven't checked what the failed run did), I think it's always 6 minutes and change. I have no fucking clue how you could save on top of the trolley (after killing the shadows) in 7:41. And then the crane time seems a little slow from there. I'm probably 1-2 minutes ahead by the windmill.
Fucking Weeaboo
Quote:
Sir VG or anyone else, do you have times to compare to?


Not at the moment, but since my run is digitized, I'll take some time later to go through and figure out timing.