Why not ICO?Greatest Game of all time!
Thread title:
Why don't you do it?
SDA Forum
I love YaBB 1G - SP1!
Someone who goes by the name Dr_Ian ran this game in 2:20 using the 2 player mode in the jap only version...
It can be found here:
http://www.ikaruga.co.uk/files/Dr_Ian/
It can be found here:
http://www.ikaruga.co.uk/files/Dr_Ian/
something or another
Quote:
Someone who goes by the name Dr_Ian ran this game in 2:20 using the 2 player mode in the jap only version...
It can be found here:
http://www.ikaruga.co.uk/files/Dr_Ian/
It can be found here:
http://www.ikaruga.co.uk/files/Dr_Ian/
THE Dr. Ian? Of Ikaruga fame?
*looks at link*
Yeah, I guess so.
I'm practicing a run for Ico now, exploring and stuff. I'm also getting ideas from Dr. Ian's video. I've yet to see him do anything that's too "risky," and I seem to be doing well with risk taking, so, not considering the fact that Ian plays the co-op Japanese version, I'm highly confident that I can improve his run.
The Yorda AI seems a bit erradic (sp?), and that'll be the only random factor that could hinder a good run. I've found a few places where you can do some risky jumps to save time and strat in one or two places that can protect Yorda from being taken by the demons.
Once I reach zero death gameplay ability and solidify a route, I predict a 2:30 to 3:00 hour run, barring Yorda's AI. Hopefully, I'll get a much lower to time than predicted.
The Yorda AI seems a bit erradic (sp?), and that'll be the only random factor that could hinder a good run. I've found a few places where you can do some risky jumps to save time and strat in one or two places that can protect Yorda from being taken by the demons.
Once I reach zero death gameplay ability and solidify a route, I predict a 2:30 to 3:00 hour run, barring Yorda's AI. Hopefully, I'll get a much lower to time than predicted.
I was much entertained by his commentary. Also, I shouldn't boast about being able to improve his run. In his commentary, Ian mentions the fact his run can be improved by 10-15 mins. There were lots of mistakes. Also, the guy playing the second player Yorda seemed to just be picking the game up for the first time. Ian gives him directions on a few occasions. Or maybe he just has a really bad memory.
UPDATE: I'm doing a second practice run and currently I'm at 1 hour 8 minutes and some-odd seconds at the Waterfall save point. I've made a few mistakes and died once, all adding up to about 3-4 minutes that can be cut off.
UPDATE: I'm doing a second practice run and currently I'm at 1 hour 8 minutes and some-odd seconds at the Waterfall save point. I've made a few mistakes and died once, all adding up to about 3-4 minutes that can be cut off.
everybody wanna tell you the meaning of music
I made a thread on Ico a looong while back, glad to see someone's finally doing it. I actually downloaded Dr. Ian's version, but I haven't bothered with more than just skimming it yet. He seems to waste a good bit of time fighting and just not playing tightly in general.
What was your time at the last save point? When I played through the game the 2nd time, I tried to play quickly (although not speedrun quality), and got 1:41 with the mace. So I think 2:30 to 3:00 is overly conservative.
Also, are you gonna do single segment? There's no really tough point in Ico, and waiting for Yorda to sit down every time can take a while, so I think SS would save you more time. The main part I don't like for a speedrun is the part at the end where you fight all the previous horned children (incidentally the single most amazing videogame scene of all time). That part always seems to take forever. I don't know the standard deviation for it, but I seem to remember taking a lot less time my first playthrough, which might be purely psychological.
Ico is pretty linear, so I don't know about tricks, but here's what I remember (but know I haven't played in a couple years):
- If there's any doubt as to if you need to fight, you don't. This includes the part on the rooftops near the beginning and the part after where you have to light the bomb and throw it at the pillar.
- The main timesavers are jumping down whenever possible to save time and backtracking. One example is when Ico is alone and walking on some cliffs near the end, you can drop down and skip the first section. Another is, for the part where you have to first detonate a bomb, you can drop down from the upper door to the lower door.
- Every time you're traveling down a slope or stairs, jumping saves time. You'll have to test jumping on flat ground or jumping up slopes, although I doubt they speed you up since there's a recovery time upon landing.
- For every ladder, you can drop down from the top and catch back on the ladder right before you splat if you have to.
- You can also save a lot of time by getting Yorda to follow you ASAP. In practice, this means calling her a lot. You can both be climbing on ladders at the same time if you call her before you climb.
- Also, in some sections, it's faster to place Yorda in the correct position, like on a crane, and then operate the crane, than it is to move them separately.
- Sometimes it's faster to leave Yorda somewhere than to take her along, even if it means you have to rescue her later. A good example is the really tall ladders near the wings of the castle, where you should just leave her at the bottom and rescue her later. In general, I would leave Yorda somewhere whenever possible.
- When Yorda is weak while running on the bridge, if you run for a couple seconds, and then tap walk, then keep on running, that maximizes your speed there as she doesn't have to keep on falling down.
- There's a part where you're "supposed" to swing into an open window, do stuff, then go back and swing into a higher window. The lower window can be skipped entirely.
- Learn how much you can get away with cutting corners while swinging. I swear, I probably wasted minutes swinging on those things, because watching Dr. Ian, the game is really generous when it comes to making jumps.
- Don't get the mace/lightsaber, of course. There are NO necessary fights between the mace and the sword. I remember because I regret not being able to use it.
- I can't think of any more right now. Unfortunately, a run of this kind is more like, one person does it, and then afterwards somebody else says, "oh, you didn't know you could do blah?" Ico isn't very well documented or standardized whenever people talk about its gameplay.
Good luck!
I would like to add: I'm really looking forward to Shadow of the Colossus. I'm thinking it could possibly end up being the game of the year, and I hope it lives up to its potential.
What was your time at the last save point? When I played through the game the 2nd time, I tried to play quickly (although not speedrun quality), and got 1:41 with the mace. So I think 2:30 to 3:00 is overly conservative.
Also, are you gonna do single segment? There's no really tough point in Ico, and waiting for Yorda to sit down every time can take a while, so I think SS would save you more time. The main part I don't like for a speedrun is the part at the end where you fight all the previous horned children (incidentally the single most amazing videogame scene of all time). That part always seems to take forever. I don't know the standard deviation for it, but I seem to remember taking a lot less time my first playthrough, which might be purely psychological.
Ico is pretty linear, so I don't know about tricks, but here's what I remember (but know I haven't played in a couple years):
- If there's any doubt as to if you need to fight, you don't. This includes the part on the rooftops near the beginning and the part after where you have to light the bomb and throw it at the pillar.
- The main timesavers are jumping down whenever possible to save time and backtracking. One example is when Ico is alone and walking on some cliffs near the end, you can drop down and skip the first section. Another is, for the part where you have to first detonate a bomb, you can drop down from the upper door to the lower door.
- Every time you're traveling down a slope or stairs, jumping saves time. You'll have to test jumping on flat ground or jumping up slopes, although I doubt they speed you up since there's a recovery time upon landing.
- For every ladder, you can drop down from the top and catch back on the ladder right before you splat if you have to.
- You can also save a lot of time by getting Yorda to follow you ASAP. In practice, this means calling her a lot. You can both be climbing on ladders at the same time if you call her before you climb.
- Also, in some sections, it's faster to place Yorda in the correct position, like on a crane, and then operate the crane, than it is to move them separately.
- Sometimes it's faster to leave Yorda somewhere than to take her along, even if it means you have to rescue her later. A good example is the really tall ladders near the wings of the castle, where you should just leave her at the bottom and rescue her later. In general, I would leave Yorda somewhere whenever possible.
- When Yorda is weak while running on the bridge, if you run for a couple seconds, and then tap walk, then keep on running, that maximizes your speed there as she doesn't have to keep on falling down.
- There's a part where you're "supposed" to swing into an open window, do stuff, then go back and swing into a higher window. The lower window can be skipped entirely.
- Learn how much you can get away with cutting corners while swinging. I swear, I probably wasted minutes swinging on those things, because watching Dr. Ian, the game is really generous when it comes to making jumps.
- Don't get the mace/lightsaber, of course. There are NO necessary fights between the mace and the sword. I remember because I regret not being able to use it.
- I can't think of any more right now. Unfortunately, a run of this kind is more like, one person does it, and then afterwards somebody else says, "oh, you didn't know you could do blah?" Ico isn't very well documented or standardized whenever people talk about its gameplay.
Good luck!
I would like to add: I'm really looking forward to Shadow of the Colossus. I'm thinking it could possibly end up being the game of the year, and I hope it lives up to its potential.
Quote:
- The main timesavers are jumping down whenever possible to save time and backtracking. One example is when Ico is alone and walking on some cliffs near the end, you can drop down and skip the first section. Another is, for the part where you have to first detonate a bomb, you can drop down from the upper door to the lower door.
- For every ladder, you can drop down from the top and catch back on the ladder right before you splat if you have to.
Could you elaborate more on the first point above? It sounds like something I don't do that could really save time (skipping the first section of anything sounds great!). Also, when climbing down ladders, I tap X and the game lets me fall a certain distance before Ico catches the ladder automatically, but he doesn't catch right before he hits the ground, just at even intervals.
I've yet to do a speed practice run, so I couldn't tell you my final save time. I plan on SS, not even saving on the final couch for time checking. Your time of 1:41 sounds very impressive, BTW, so I'll use that to strive toward. That is if you got that time on the American version.
With your tricks and the tricks in Dr. Ian's video, there's not much new that I can say I do differently except:
In the Gondola section, after the waterfall section, I'm able to get to the tower on rails much faster than by climbing the pipe. I leap from the rail near the lift up to the ledge the tower on rails is on. I have to run back and grab Yorda, but she doesn't get caught by the demons.
Thanks for your input. I'm also looking forward to SOTC. It will be a most epic experience
everybody wanna tell you the meaning of music
The two shortcuts I listed are both in Dr. Ian's run, it turns out. I haven't watched through the entire run (I skimmed through it because I'm waiting for yours of course), but I did look for those points. They happen at 16:25 and 121:45. Basically I just mean to look out for being able jump down long distances whenever possible instead of backtracking using ladders or stairs.
Maybe I just don't correctly remember how the game works, but I thought you could just tap X on a ladder to let go, fall down any distance (that might even be lethal normally), and then tap X again to catch back on to the ladder near the bottom.
How's progress on this? You might want to do this before SotC comes out, or you might lose motivation temporarily.
Edit: SS is definitely the way to go. And yes, my 1:41 is on the American version, with save points and the mace.
Maybe I just don't correctly remember how the game works, but I thought you could just tap X on a ladder to let go, fall down any distance (that might even be lethal normally), and then tap X again to catch back on to the ladder near the bottom.
How's progress on this? You might want to do this before SotC comes out, or you might lose motivation temporarily.
Edit: SS is definitely the way to go. And yes, my 1:41 is on the American version, with save points and the mace.
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Can someone tell me what's so great about this game?
I played it two hours, and my impressions are:
- It's always the same, room, beat up all bad stuff, solve a micro puzzle, proceed
- That girl is so freaking stupid it hurts. You hop on a 70cm ledge and she doesn't manage to follow you until you drag her up, but after that if you just idle in that room she'll climb that very same ledge for fun. I ended up dragging her like a ragdoll all the time only 20 minutes after I got her.
I played it two hours, and my impressions are:
- It's always the same, room, beat up all bad stuff, solve a micro puzzle, proceed
- That girl is so freaking stupid it hurts. You hop on a 70cm ledge and she doesn't manage to follow you until you drag her up, but after that if you just idle in that room she'll climb that very same ledge for fun. I ended up dragging her like a ragdoll all the time only 20 minutes after I got her.
everybody wanna tell you the meaning of music
I'll admit, gameplay-wise Ico is meager and easy and short, with almost no replay value. You have to really have a minimalist mindset in order to appreciate it. There are some things, such as music, that is barely even there, but when it is, it is executed flawlessly.
Apart from the gameplay, the graphic design, the way it tells a story, and the atmosphere are just about tops for any game ever. For example, there is a scene near the end which is definitely the most awe-inspiring story moment I can think of in videogaming history. The best part is, instead of shoving it down your face like every other game out there does, it is subtle enough that I'm sure many people miss the significance completely.
Out of the so-called Holy Trinity of PS2 games (along with Rez and Katamari Damacy), I'd accept that this is maybe the weakest of the three, but I would still consider Ico Top 10 on the PS2 easy.
Oh, and this is to Gorash in particular: I think I remember you said something about wanting PS2 recommendations at one point. Well, us BoF5 supporters have to stick together; if you like BoF5 you obviously have good taste heh. So I suggest Star Ocean 3. While it is nothing like BoF5, it is my second favorite game on the system.
Apart from the gameplay, the graphic design, the way it tells a story, and the atmosphere are just about tops for any game ever. For example, there is a scene near the end which is definitely the most awe-inspiring story moment I can think of in videogaming history. The best part is, instead of shoving it down your face like every other game out there does, it is subtle enough that I'm sure many people miss the significance completely.
Out of the so-called Holy Trinity of PS2 games (along with Rez and Katamari Damacy), I'd accept that this is maybe the weakest of the three, but I would still consider Ico Top 10 on the PS2 easy.
Oh, and this is to Gorash in particular: I think I remember you said something about wanting PS2 recommendations at one point. Well, us BoF5 supporters have to stick together; if you like BoF5 you obviously have good taste heh. So I suggest Star Ocean 3. While it is nothing like BoF5, it is my second favorite game on the system.
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Funny that you mention BoF5 Enhasa. I finally beat it 2 days ago. One coolness of an ending. 1/128 without ever touching Kokon Hooray. Once I got that (and the 1/32 it will get me), and after that a playthrough with all the D-ratio doors I'll move on. 
You really have a way of picking the weird games, don't you? I looked up the gamefaqs reviews of SO3, and it seems like BoF, either you love it or you hate it. (And I should mention that it took me 40 hours to see the greatness of the latter).
Back to ICO, well... 2 hours seem not to be enough to appreciate the game. I should mention I played Jak and Daxter the same day, I think that numbed me a bit to subtilities.
You really have a way of picking the weird games, don't you? I looked up the gamefaqs reviews of SO3, and it seems like BoF, either you love it or you hate it. (And I should mention that it took me 40 hours to see the greatness of the latter).
Back to ICO, well... 2 hours seem not to be enough to appreciate the game. I should mention I played Jak and Daxter the same day, I think that numbed me a bit to subtilities.
Fucking Weeaboo
ICO may not have had much for replay value, but there were some great things about this game.
Levels too similiar: Yeah, well...you're in one freaking big castle. They SHOULD be somewhat similiar. Plus it adds to the feel of the "you're lost in a big fricken castle that you're never suppose to get out of".
Almost no music: It wasn't necessary. Life doesn't always come with a soundtrack. Plus the lack of one let you focus on the sfx.
Lack of a plot: There was a plot if you were paying attention. Boy born with horns, deemed a curse. Locked in the midst of a big gigantic castle and is doomed to die. Manages to break out. Finds princess. Two decide to escape together. There's your freaking plot people.
Too short: Yeah, probably. But every minute to me was enjoyable.
And for a speedrun, I'd love to see it. If I can remember everything about this game again, I'll try it oo. We'll see.
Levels too similiar: Yeah, well...you're in one freaking big castle. They SHOULD be somewhat similiar. Plus it adds to the feel of the "you're lost in a big fricken castle that you're never suppose to get out of".
Almost no music: It wasn't necessary. Life doesn't always come with a soundtrack. Plus the lack of one let you focus on the sfx.
Lack of a plot: There was a plot if you were paying attention. Boy born with horns, deemed a curse. Locked in the midst of a big gigantic castle and is doomed to die. Manages to break out. Finds princess. Two decide to escape together. There's your freaking plot people.
Too short: Yeah, probably. But every minute to me was enjoyable.
And for a speedrun, I'd love to see it. If I can remember everything about this game again, I'll try it oo. We'll see.
I love YaBB 1G - SP1!
Quote:
Apart from the gameplay, the graphic design, the way it tells a story, and the atmosphere are just about tops for any game ever. For example, there is a scene near the end which is definitely the most awe-inspiring story moment I can think of in videogaming history. The best part is, instead of shoving it down your face like every other game out there does, it is subtle enough that I'm sure many people miss the significance completely.
Hmm... are you referring to the scene when you return to the room the boy was trapped in?
everybody wanna tell you the meaning of music
About what I said earlier about Rez and KD: I just realized that those games are actually more deficient gameplay-wise, so Ico is the winner of those 3 in my mind. I don't know what I was thinking earlier ha!
Anarchic Fox: yes
Sir_VG: I guess you're refuting arguments that people have made outside this board, because I didn't see any of those here. I agree with what you say, but there is one legitimate complaint that you left out, that the game is way too linear and everything is forced.
As much as I love level variety and VGM, I agree with you that the way they did it here was the best. I've never heard anybody complain about lack of plot; maybe they don't appreciate how it shows instead of tells.
Gorash: You actually only need 1/256 to be able to access all the doors and SOL scenes, so if you're going to go through the game two more times, I think you should go for 1/4 the final time.
People have told me before I like "weird" games, and I thought it was just coincidence (I do play at least some of everything that I possibly can, such as the FFs and such, and big games from other genres), but now I'm not so sure. I think it's hard to create a truly great game without taking some risks, that gamers who want to see the next iteration of the same old retreads, would rate poorly. When seeing reviews of a game, I would rather see 6s and 10s rather than all 8s and "this game was decent, a good play until ___ comes out." Also, I have this theory that when a truly great anything is created, it is usually the result of the creators accidentally outperforming themselves and creating something unintentionally greater than they thought they were doing, but that's another issue.
saxman52: How's your running going? I'm interested in the time this could be completed in!
Anarchic Fox: yes
Sir_VG: I guess you're refuting arguments that people have made outside this board, because I didn't see any of those here. I agree with what you say, but there is one legitimate complaint that you left out, that the game is way too linear and everything is forced.
As much as I love level variety and VGM, I agree with you that the way they did it here was the best. I've never heard anybody complain about lack of plot; maybe they don't appreciate how it shows instead of tells.
Gorash: You actually only need 1/256 to be able to access all the doors and SOL scenes, so if you're going to go through the game two more times, I think you should go for 1/4 the final time.
People have told me before I like "weird" games, and I thought it was just coincidence (I do play at least some of everything that I possibly can, such as the FFs and such, and big games from other genres), but now I'm not so sure. I think it's hard to create a truly great game without taking some risks, that gamers who want to see the next iteration of the same old retreads, would rate poorly. When seeing reviews of a game, I would rather see 6s and 10s rather than all 8s and "this game was decent, a good play until ___ comes out." Also, I have this theory that when a truly great anything is created, it is usually the result of the creators accidentally outperforming themselves and creating something unintentionally greater than they thought they were doing, but that's another issue.
saxman52: How's your running going? I'm interested in the time this could be completed in!
i like to watch.
Quote:
Levels too similiar: Yeah, well...you're in one freaking big castle. They SHOULD be somewhat similiar. Plus it adds to the feel of the "you're lost in a big fricken castle that you're never suppose to get out of".
i actually admire that ico's castle is actually completely physically coherent. i mean, all the pieces fit together correctly in space. you could build it.
also, no other game has used light as well as ico.
I have no time. No longer do I get joy from games 
Anytime I play there's always this voice in the back of my saying, "You idiot, why are you wasting your time." In all honesty, I'd only do a speedrun to try and impress and it's not worth it to me. I'm not too dedicated anymore. Gaming's gone by the wayside and I'm tired of trying to keep up and act like stuff still excites me. The torch is on the ground...if anyone has any lighter fluid for this one I'll give you suggestions on how to make it as good as I know how. Fairwell for now.