Guacamelee

2014-05-25 01:18:50 pm

Awesome, thanks PT

Didn't mean to sound doubtful, I was just curious.about the actual times. When I get w run with good SDG's and a good XTabay I be happy then Smiley

NiL8r

Edit history:

NiL8r: 2014-05-26 01:30:52 pm

2014-05-26 01:29:31 pm

I've been working on some grips for the SDG and Swap Hopping and thought I'd chip in in case someone else wanted to try them out.

For SDG, I've started curling my left index finger around to the select button. This way I only have to time one hand to press two buttons simultaneously rather than trying to time two hands to do it. It seems more consistent to me anyway, but it might just be a personal thing.

For Swap Hopping, I don't know if anyone else experiences this, but I have a much easier time Swap Hopping when also moving horizontally (AKA moving right or left). So for straight vertical climbs (skipping Tule and Sierra arenas) I've actually started holding down the up button. If you use Protongue's grip for Swap Hopping, this is probably unnecessary, but it helps me Smiley

Also, sum of bests for Any% is at 49:35 (actual PB is 50:50), and yet I can't PB. I'm remembering why I disliked doing attempts Tongue

Bagel_Thief

2014-05-30 10:04:38 am

Eel suggested a game of H.O.R.S.E a while back, allow me to present the first (and probably last cuz it's a toughie) challenge for you guys to try.

Have fun but I doubt you'll replicate this.... MWAHAHAHA!

NiL8r

2014-05-30 04:44:52 pm

HAHAHA. Oh man... that is incredible.

Protongue

Edit history:

Protongue: 2014-06-09 10:21:35 pm

Protongue: 2014-06-08 12:18:57 pm

Protongue: 2014-05-31 08:40:24 pm

Protongue: 2014-05-31 10:26:25 am

Protongue: 2014-05-31 10:21:45 am

Protongue: 2014-05-30 08:15:08 pm

Protongue: 2014-05-30 05:03:24 pm

Protongue: 2014-05-30 05:03:03 pm

Protongue: 2014-05-30 05:02:47 pm

2014-05-30 05:02:36 pm

That's ridiculous Bagel, never seen Goat Fly go in that direction before! I'll give it a shot later today.

I discovered another SDG setup variant that saves ~7 seconds on the Tule Tree SDG skip:

You need to be very careful to not override your ability to advance Olmec head's dialog. Here are the instructions I'm using to consistently pull it off:
* Any time during the game session (even during the title screen), move the in-game mouse cursor to one of the screen corners
* Activate the glitched main menu
* Talk to Olmec head by pressing Y and say "Yes" ("Oui") to warp with Y
* Place your map cursor on Temple of Rain and your menu cursor on "Extras" ("Supplements") and then press A
* Press Y on the last Olmec dialog box

This SDG setup variant works by having the glitched main menu open when a loading screen occurs. Doing so sets your current region as the SDG warp region while allowing the game to load normally.

EDIT: I'm now having consistency issues with this setup (it occasionally blocks you from advancing the last Olmec head dialog). I'll let you all know if I find a solution!
EDIT 2: Added a new step to the beginning of the setup and revised the steps to avoid menu ghost options tampering. It seems you need to unfocus/refocus the game in order to avoid blocking the last Olmec head dialog. I'll update/replace the video later today.
EDIT 3: Video replaced!
EDIT 4: Updated item #1. Alt+Tab is not needed, but moving your mouse cursor out of the way is!

That's ridiculous Bagel, never seen Goat Fly go in that direction before! I'll give it a shot later today.

I discovered another SDG setup variant that saves ~7 seconds on the Tule Tree SDG skip:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Y6gogOAZBUk

You need to be very careful to not override your ability to advance Olmec head's dialog. Here are the instructions I'm using to consistently pull it off:
* Any time during the game session (even during the title screen), move the in-game mouse cursor to one of the screen corners
* Activate the glitched main menu
* Talk to Olmec head by pressing Y and say "Yes" ("Oui") to warp with Y
* Place your map cursor on Temple of Rain and your menu cursor on "Extras" ("Supplements") and then press A
* Press Y on the last Olmec dialog box

This SDG setup variant works by having the glitched main menu open when a loading screen occurs. Doing so sets your current region as the SDG warp region while allowing the game to load normally.

EDIT: I'm now having consistency issues with this setup (it occasionally blocks you from advancing the last Olmec head dialog). I'll let you all know if I find a solution!
EDIT 2: Added a new step to the beginning of the setup and revised the steps to avoid menu ghost options tampering. It seems you need to unfocus/refocus the game in order to avoid blocking the last Olmec head dialog. I'll update/replace the video later today.
EDIT 3: Video replaced!
EDIT 4: Updated item #1. Alt+Tab is not needed, but moving your mouse cursor out of the way is!

NiL8r

2014-05-30 05:07:13 pm

Gah! People keep discovering new optimizations that I need to practice. When will they end? (hopefully never :P)

Bagel_Thief

2014-05-30 08:20:48 pm

If anyone tries the H.O.R.S.E challenge,could you do it on stream. Would like to see if anyone gets even close to it. Good luck. Smiley

Protongue

Edit history:

Protongue: 2014-06-01 05:57:02 pm

Protongue: 2014-06-01 05:56:51 pm

Protongue: 2014-06-01 05:51:45 pm

Protongue: 2014-06-01 05:51:15 pm

Protongue: 2014-06-01 03:49:58 pm

Protongue: 2014-06-01 03:48:23 pm

2014-06-01 03:47:12 pm

I gave up on Bagel's H.O.R.S.E. trick, and he revealed its secrets to me. You're going to have to really think outside the box to figure it out Tongue

I'm testing a new convoluted Any% route which might save a few seconds. It messes up the money route, which could negate any time gains. Here is an outline for anyone interested in testing/refining it:
* Follow the current route until Temple of Rain where you've acquired Olmec Headbutt and Goat Jump.
* Run to and use the Olmec Head in Temple of Rain to travel to Santa Luchita. Start + Quit.
* Game loads at Olmec Head in Forest del Chivo (the current SDG warp region). Use this Olmec Head to travel to Temple of Rain. Activate the nearest altar/checkpoint and Start + Quit.
* Game loads at Olmec Head in Forest del Chivo (again). Use this Olmec Head to travel to Santa Luchita. Set select door -> continue here.
* Game loads at Temple of Rain at the last activated checkpoint. Proceed through Temple of Rain per usual until you kill Alebrije.
* Once Alebrije is dead and X'tabay finishes her dialogs, Start + Quit.
* Game loads at Combo Chicken's Gym. Run to Hernando's and acquire Frog Slam, then Stat + Quit.
* Game loads at Combo Chicken's Gym (again). Go to Desierto Caliente and proceed until you acquire Pollo Power. Start + Quit.
* Game loads at Santa Luchita near the Desierto Caliente entrance. Run to the the Olmec Head and use it to travel to Forest del Chivo.
* Proceed to the X'tabay fight per usual. After the fight, acquire the treasure chest and stamina chunk. After the stamina chunk animation, Start + Quit while in the living world.
* Game loads at Santa Luchita at Combo Chicken's Gym. Run to the Olmec Head and use it to travel to Forest del Chivo.
* Proceed to Tule Tree per usual. Resume the current route here.

The biggest loss is the two treasure chests at the end of Temple of Rain. Without serious money rerouting, this particular route can't afford Stamina Delay Boost L2 until the Pueblucho visit for the X'tabay fight. These are my current replacement treasure chests:
* Desierto Caliente, after the Armadillo arena in pollo form
* Forest del Chivo, in the green+red block underpass outside of Pueblucho

I'll perform timing assessment of this route later to see if it's worthwhile. There might be some improvements I've overlooked, so let me know if you come across additional optimizations!

EDIT: It's not looking good for this route! Here are some rough time comparisons (attempting to model near perfect play) between this route and the current route.
Section Description This Route Current Route
------------------------------------------------------ ------------- ------------------
Forest Olmec + SDG in Santa Luchita Setup 49.01 0.00
Temple of Rain post-X'tabay talk -> Desert 71.83 119.06
Pollo Power -> Pueblucho 45.81 51.99
After X'tabay fight + stamina chunk -> Tule 40.79 36.37
----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Total Time 207.44 207.42

These times aren't even accounting for money route adjustments (which probably adds around 5 seconds to this route). This route is no good unless we find additional optimizations.

I gave up on Bagel's H.O.R.S.E. trick, and he revealed its secrets to me. You're going to have to really think outside the box to figure it out :P

I'm testing a new convoluted Any% route which [i]might[/i] save a few seconds. It messes up the money route, which could negate any time gains. Here is an outline for anyone interested in testing/refining it:
* Follow the current route until Temple of Rain where you've acquired Olmec Headbutt and Goat Jump.
* Run to and use the Olmec Head in Temple of Rain to travel to Santa Luchita. Start + Quit.
* Game loads at Olmec Head in Forest del Chivo (the current SDG warp region). Use this Olmec Head to travel to Temple of Rain. Activate the nearest altar/checkpoint and Start + Quit.
* Game loads at Olmec Head in Forest del Chivo (again). Use this Olmec Head to travel to Santa Luchita. Set select door -> continue here.
* Game loads at Temple of Rain at the last activated checkpoint. Proceed through Temple of Rain per usual until you kill Alebrije.
* Once Alebrije is dead and X'tabay finishes her dialogs, Start + Quit.
* Game loads at Combo Chicken's Gym. Run to Hernando's and acquire Frog Slam, then Stat + Quit.
* Game loads at Combo Chicken's Gym (again). Go to Desierto Caliente and proceed until you acquire Pollo Power. Start + Quit.
* Game loads at Santa Luchita near the Desierto Caliente entrance. Run to the the Olmec Head and use it to travel to Forest del Chivo.
* Proceed to the X'tabay fight per usual. After the fight, acquire the treasure chest and stamina chunk. After the stamina chunk animation, Start + Quit while in the living world.
* Game loads at Santa Luchita at Combo Chicken's Gym. Run to the Olmec Head and use it to travel to Forest del Chivo.
* Proceed to Tule Tree per usual. Resume the current route here.

The biggest loss is the two treasure chests at the end of Temple of Rain. Without serious money rerouting, this particular route can't afford Stamina Delay Boost L2 until the Pueblucho visit for the X'tabay fight. These are my current replacement treasure chests:
* Desierto Caliente, after the Armadillo arena in pollo form
* Forest del Chivo, in the green+red block underpass outside of Pueblucho

I'll perform timing assessment of this route later to see if it's worthwhile. There might be some improvements I've overlooked, so let me know if you come across additional optimizations!

EDIT: It's not looking good for this route! Here are some rough time comparisons (attempting to model near perfect play) between this route and the current route.
Section Description                                          This Route      Current Route
------------------------------------------------------     -------------      ------------------
Forest Olmec + SDG in Santa Luchita Setup            49.01                     0.00
Temple of Rain post-X'tabay talk -> Desert             71.83                 119.06
Pollo Power -> Pueblucho                                       45.81                   51.99
After X'tabay fight + stamina chunk -> Tule            40.79                   36.37  
----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Total Time                                                              207.44                 207.42

These times aren't even accounting for money route adjustments (which probably adds around 5 seconds to this route). This route is no good unless we find additional optimizations.

Bagel_Thief

2014-06-01 05:44:22 pm

Just looking at that route now PT and don't you also miss the chest we would normally get whilst climbing up the forest to fight X'Tabay? don't know if that would screw you later on in the run when you need to buy the stamina chunk. If so I suppose we could just get that same chest while dropping down to the Tule Tree but that is another second or so to factor into weather this saves time overall or not.

Protongue

2014-06-01 05:55:51 pm

Ah, that's right Bagel. We would either need to pick up that Forest del Chivo chest along the way to Tule Tree, or perhaps get the Sierra Morena chest after the Jaguar fight instead. I updated my post with time comparisons, and this alternative route is looking a little bit slower, especially when accounting for such money route adjustments. Ah well, the route is something to keep in mind in case we find some new tricks that could speed it up!

Bagel_Thief

2014-06-04 03:03:44 pm

DANG IT! I came so close to be able to skip Flame face on 100%. To be fair, he is skippable, but you lose the ability to get Goat Climb and in the long run, the time saved skipping Flameface's cut scene and fight do not outweigh the time lost by Wallhopping everywhere afterwards. especially in the Treetops. Sad

Bagel_Thief

Edit history:

Bagel_Thief: 2014-06-07 04:30:46 pm

2014-06-07 03:34:35 pm

Nice job on the recent combo tutorial you posted on the Guacommunity YouTube channel Weskurrr, great content as always Smiley

And Jesus Christ Imlas! Talk about quality! Very Informative and entertaining stuff from the both of you. And to anybody who hasn't seen them yet... Enjoy!

Imlas

2014-06-07 04:37:19 pm

Woah, a deluge of awesome videos from everyone going up today on the channel. Great job everyone! (Now to get around to doing some wiki edits...)

Weskurrr

2014-06-11 02:20:20 pm

Is anyone currently working on a wall hopping tutorial? I'm going to be placing video clips within the any% tutorial, and the first part of it is going to show each trick for like 10-20 seconds. I want to use picture-in-picture of the videos we have up on the Guacommunity channel and link to those using annotations. If no one's working on one, I'd be happy to put one up; I'm recording myself wall hopping anyway lmao

Imlas

2014-06-11 02:31:01 pm

I was thinking about doing one, but honestly I suck at wallhopping and don't think I could do it justice without scripting/magically becoming Eel.

Speaking of other videos, I thought about doing a more in depth SDG tutorial explaining why we SDG where we do/how to read the index map/etc. Does anyone have other ideas?

Protongue

2014-06-11 03:55:49 pm

Creating a wall hopping tutorial sounds awesome, Weskurrr. It seems that the topic is unclaimed based on our recent discussion about tutorial videos, so I say go for it!

An in-depth SDG warping tutorial is also a great idea, Imlas. Let me know if you would find it helpful to discuss any of the warping behavior (if so, send me a message on Twitch and we'll work out a meeting time). Regardless, I'm confident you'll produce an excellent tutorial on the topic, given your contributions with confirming the region connector warp indices and the quality of your swap hopping video.

Weskurrr

2014-06-12 09:26:52 pm

I spent more time on making this than I should have. Enjoy!

Imlas

2014-06-12 09:33:51 pm

That was *amazingly* well done, sir. I guess I need to step up my game for the next one.

NiL8r

2014-06-12 10:22:54 pm

I.. Jeghh... No words. No words... Great job Weskurrrrrrrr

Weskurrr

2014-06-15 12:04:43 pm

Happy Father's Day, everyone

Protongue

2014-06-15 01:40:01 pm

Happy Father's Day! Fantastic work on the wall hopping video, Weskurrr.

I'll be busy today and next Sunday. Good luck to everyone in the races, and hope to join you soon!

Anil8r, in case I don't catch you streaming during the week, I wish you an awesome time at SGDQ. Your Good Ending runs have been increasingly excellent.

Bagel_Thief

2014-06-22 09:17:26 am

Ok, I may have stumbled onto something or nothing here but whilst on an attempt I tried pre loading SDG at the Rooster Uppercut statue and managed to kinda soft lock the SDG somehow. it was treating the pause menu as the slight delay before the seizure. This could be tricking the game into where it thinks the pause menu is rather then the title screen which would make SDGing quite a bit faster. has anybody else had this happen to them or is it just me?

Protongue

2014-06-22 05:39:23 pm

Bagel, I came across that bug too. It seems undesirable (breaks the pause menu and causes soft locks on subsequent dialogs), but maybe there's something more to it. Here are steps to recreate it for anyone who wants to experiment:

* Press Select + Up on a door as per SDG, but leave the map screen open
* Blindly (map screen blocking your view) make your way to a dialog that contains a seizure animation (such as Rooster Uppercut or Vs. Poncho)
* Advance the dialog past the point where the seizure animation should occur
* Press Start; now the seizure animation occurs
* Now whenever you press Start, the screen dims per usual but the pause menu does not appear

Weskurrr

2014-06-28 06:30:09 pm

Anyone up for an any% good end race tomorrow? I'm down for either that or any% if anyone wants to race. Feels like we haven't done so in forever, even though I'm pretty sure it's only been like two weeks.

Protongue

2014-06-29 10:23:56 am

No racing for me today sadly, but my availability should open up again next Sunday. A Good Ending race is a cool idea!