Final Fantasy X

2011-10-02 04:20:29 pm

We all scream for Eyes Cream

I'm actually tempted to do a run of the International version, especially if the Expert Sphere Grid could make a bit of difference. Then again, I haven't even started playing it yet so I should probably do that first.

Caracarn

Edit history:

Caracarn: 2011-10-02 05:42:46 pm

2011-10-02 05:42:10 pm

Quote from Caracarn:

I had a new strat in the Via Purifico, so I summoned Valefor against the first Maze Larva to finish filling it's OD. In practice, it would always cast Watera on Valefor after one Thunder, and then I would kill it with the second Thunder, but this time it kept casting Watera on itself, so it took probably 5 or 6 Thunders to kill it instead.

I would have to test this more, but I think this happened because it was an Ambush, and it hit Auron with Watera before I summoned, so it switched to healing itself afterwards. Changing to using Valefor here was to avoid seeing Ixion's long animations, but it didn't work this time as I had planned it.

Fragmaster01

2011-10-02 08:50:26 pm

Wiggle wiggle

Quote from Caracarn:

Element Reels is really slow to use; it wouldn't really do enough damage to be worth it.

You sure? It should do a good 1000 damage, due to Extractor's lightning weakness.

Caracarn

2011-10-02 09:00:28 pm

I will test it sometime, but I seem to remember it not doing that much damage. I may not have gotten all the reels on the right spot though. If I mess the reels up it will definitely waste time. The other thing to consider is Wakka not having his Overdrive filled for later, if I am able to get Entrust on him (which requires a rare drop, so it's unlikely).

Fragmaster01

2011-10-02 09:02:29 pm

Wiggle wiggle

It should be 2x damage, plus a high chance for a crit(another 2x), plus elemental weakness(yet another 2x), then the Cheer bonuses on top. That should deal a good amount of damage.

Caracarn

Edit history:

Caracarn: 2011-10-03 05:17:49 pm

Caracarn: 2011-10-03 04:08:01 pm

Caracarn: 2011-10-03 03:46:55 pm

Caracarn: 2011-10-03 03:36:07 pm

2011-10-03 03:29:38 pm

I am testing Extractor strats right now. One thing I am considering is buying the Switch Hitter from O'aka right before I get on the shoopuf (+8% Strength). Wakka did over 200 damage on the first attack with no Cheers. The Switch Hitter will also take far less time to get than the Lightningstrike Scout on the Oldroad.

Element Reels did do nearly 1000 damage with 3 Cheers and the Switch Hitter, but I'm still not convinced that is worth it for the time it takes to select the reels and see the animation.

The Lightningstrike Scout did 310 damage on the first turn with no Cheers, but that is just not worth the time it takes to get it; almost a minute probably. Element Reels with the LS Scout also did not do any more damage than Element Reels with the Switch Hitter did.

Ok scratch the Switch Hitter thing, it really doesn't do that much more damage than the Official Ball. I guess I would only buy that if I ended up having to sell the Official Ball in Luca.

Ok, I think I have a pretty good strategy for it now, without using Element Reels. 3 regular attacks does about the same damage as Element Reels, but time-wise the regular attacks are much faster, especially when in Haste.

I am testing Extractor strats right now.  One thing I am considering is buying the Switch Hitter from O'aka right before I get on the shoopuf (+8% Strength).  Wakka did over 200 damage on the first attack with no Cheers. The Switch Hitter will also take far less time to get than the Lightningstrike Scout on the Oldroad.

Element Reels did do nearly 1000 damage with 3 Cheers and the Switch Hitter, but I'm still not convinced that is worth it for the time it takes to select the reels and see the animation.

The Lightningstrike Scout did 310 damage on the first turn with no Cheers, but that is just not worth the time it takes to get it; almost a minute probably. Element Reels with the LS Scout also did not do any more damage than Element Reels with the Switch Hitter did.

Ok scratch the Switch Hitter thing, it really doesn't do that much more damage than the Official Ball.  I guess I would only buy that if I ended up having to sell the Official Ball in Luca.

Ok, I think I have a pretty good strategy for it now, without using Element Reels.  3 regular attacks does about the same damage as Element Reels, but time-wise the regular attacks are much faster, especially when in Haste.

Caracarn

2011-10-23 06:50:37 am

I completed a run in 10:51:58, and I think I might be finally submitting this one. I'd say that overall, my luck was pretty amazing; especially at the Nucleus, where I didnt run into any icicles, and I gathered the items insanely fast. I made some mistakes at the Bevelle Cloister of Trials and in the Via Purifico that wasted more than 2 minutes though, so this run could definitely have been sub 10:50 without those mistakes. I also failed Wobbly Chocobo once, which is the first time I have ever failed it in an actual run, but it's pretty hard to do. Mistakes are inevitable in a run this long though, so I think some of the good luck I got made up for it quite well. The fact that I accidently renamed Shiva to Shiv adds some humor to this run as well.

Here are the links to the live recordings. The stream went down a few hours in, so it's broken up, but theres not too much missing.

http://www.twitch.tv/caracarnvi/b/298133023

http://www.twitch.tv/caracarnvi/b/298145794

I completed a run in 10:51:58, and I think I might be finally submitting this one.  I'd say that overall, my luck was pretty amazing; especially at the Nucleus, where I didnt run into any icicles, and I gathered the items insanely fast.  I made some mistakes at the Bevelle Cloister of Trials and in the Via Purifico that wasted more than 2 minutes though, so this run could definitely have been sub 10:50 without those mistakes.  I also failed Wobbly Chocobo once, which is the first time I have ever failed it in an actual run, but it's pretty hard to do. Mistakes are inevitable in a run this long though, so I think some of the good luck I got made up for it quite well.  The fact that I accidently renamed Shiva to Shiv adds some humor to this run as well.

Here are the links to the live recordings. The stream went down a few hours in, so it's broken up, but theres not too much missing.

[url]http://www.twitch.tv/caracarnvi/b/298133023[/url]

[url]http://www.twitch.tv/caracarnvi/b/298145794[/url]

dballin

2011-10-23 10:29:30 am

Balls jerky

Only a couple minutes of mistakes in an almost 11 hour SS is damn impressive.

Essentia

2011-10-23 12:33:03 pm

Everything's better with Magitek

Wow, great job! And to think I was trying to get sub-11:30 on my SS attempts. I'll have to find time to watch this!

Caracarn

Edit history:

Caracarn: 2011-10-23 06:47:37 pm

Caracarn: 2011-10-23 06:47:23 pm

Caracarn: 2011-10-23 05:34:16 pm

Caracarn: 2011-10-23 03:46:01 pm

2011-10-23 02:50:01 pm

If I did the SDA timing correctly, I was one second away from getting a 10:49. The game timer was at 10:30 at the last visible point, and it was 19 minutes and 1 second until the first frame of Yu Yevon's death animation. ~~Since I have to round up to 20 minutes, it will be 10:50 instead.~~ This would be 10:49:01, rounded up to 10:50.
I'll have to get confirmation on this timing method though.

I thought for sure there was something in the rules page about rounding up, since the game-timer could have been at 10:30:59, but I can't find it now. I'll have to ask Flip about how to time this.

Edit: Ok, I know where I read that now, it's a timing note on the Final Fantasy VI page. "Game's timer is referenced at its last visible point, then real time from then to the end of the final attack is added. Resulting time is rounded up to the next whole minute since the game timer could have been :59 seconds at the last visible moment." I'm assuming the same timing method was used for Final Fantasy X as well.

If I did the SDA timing correctly, I was [b]one[/b] second away from getting a 10:49.  The game timer was at 10:30 at the last visible point, and it was 19 minutes and 1 second until the first frame of Yu Yevon's death animation.  [s]Since I have to round up to 20 minutes, it will be 10:50 instead.[/s] This would be 10:49:01, rounded up to 10:50.
I'll have to get confirmation on this timing method though.

I thought for sure there was something in the rules page about rounding up, since the game-timer could have been at 10:30:59, but I can't find it now.  I'll have to ask Flip about how to time this.

Edit: Ok, I know where I read that now, it's a timing note on the Final Fantasy VI page.  "Game's timer is referenced at its last visible point, then real time from then to the end of the final attack is added. Resulting time is rounded up to the next whole minute since the game timer could have been :59 seconds at the last visible moment."  I'm assuming the same timing method was used for Final Fantasy X as well.

I have no name

2011-10-23 05:34:37 pm

Obscure games ftw

Wait, with SDA timing, a slower run could be given a faster time?
If I'm correct;
10:30:00 to final check + 19:01 final boss = 10:49:01, 10:50 SDA time due to 10:30+20
10:30:59 to final check + 18:59 final boss = 10:49:58, 10:49 SDA time due to 10:30+19
I'd say time the number of seconds from the last save, but in an SS there aren't saves, so...I'm not sure how you could check other than manual timing.
Which actually isn't a bad idea, all you need to do is go through in SMPlayer or something and mark all the play start/stop points (i.e., going around pauses, unless pausing still adds to the timer, it's been a while so I'm not sure), then tally up the lengths of each 'section', and get a final total that way.

Caracarn

Edit history:

Caracarn: 2011-10-23 06:36:22 pm

2011-10-23 06:27:55 pm

That's a good point. I will definitely need to get confirmation on this. I'm almost positive the segmented run was timed this way though. And while there are no saves in a single segment, the game time is still visible when I am in the menu. The last time i was in the menu was right before BFA, and it was 10:30.

For comparison: in Essentia's segmented run, the timer was at 10:01 at the last visible point, and then it was 23 minutes and 14 seconds until Yu Yevon's death animation. This would be 10:24:14, rounded up to 10:25, which is the listed time for that run.

Essentia

2011-10-23 10:44:02 pm

Everything's better with Magitek

Caracarn, you're correct about timing. Your final time would be 10:50.

romscout

2011-10-23 11:01:23 pm

that Metroidvania guy

I thought the rule was supposed to be on timers that didn't track seconds, and then it assumes that the last visible point is at x:xx:59 because you can't tell unless you switched to manual timing. And considering you can't obsolete a run of these lengths unless you beat it by at least 1 full minute (at least that's what I remember), I don't think you'd have much of a chance of running into an issue of a slower run obsoleting a faster one.

Anyway, congrats on the run Caracarn. I would never have the patience for something like this. Absolutely amazing.

Caracarn

2011-10-23 11:14:12 pm

Indeed, it does seem to be an extreme case. I seriously doubt the run would be obsoleted if someone got 10:30 + 18 minutes 59 seconds, getting a 10:49 by only 2 seconds. I just want to make sure though :p

mikwuyma

2011-10-23 11:26:33 pm

My feelings on The Demon Rush

I didn't round the time up, I just used 10:01:59 as the timing start point, because the 10:01:xx could be anything from 00-59 seconds.

I have no name

2011-10-23 11:38:27 pm

Obscure games ftw

In my example I went with the extremes to show the largest possible gap between 2 runs for a faster run to be obsoleted by a slower one.
You're right that it's not likely to happen, but if it does, there will ~~probably~~ be a controversy.

Caracarn

2011-10-23 11:48:27 pm

Ok, that makes sense. So my run would be 10:30:59 + 00:19:01 = 10:50:00. So I did indeed miss sub 10:50 by one second. D'oh!

I will still probably submit this run, because even if I don't make any huge mistakes in another attempt, the luck factor might still make it slower than this one. I will leave it to the verifiers to decide whether those mistakes are too big to accept or not.

Caracarn

Edit history:

Caracarn: 2011-11-04 05:24:28 am

Caracarn: 2011-10-25 11:59:24 pm

Caracarn: 2011-10-25 09:50:44 pm

Caracarn: 2011-10-25 09:48:17 pm

Caracarn: 2011-10-25 09:46:49 pm

2011-10-25 08:56:33 pm

Now that I'm done (I think) with the Single Segment New Game run, I am starting to think about working on Segmented New Game Plus. If I do this, I will be going for extreme optimization, so it will be a very long process; both planning and recording. My initial goal is sub-10 hours, but I'm not sure yet if that is possible (if it is, it will be just barely).

I welcome any improvement ideas anyone might have.

I'll get started with my plan for the first two segments:

Segment 1 - Manipulate crits on Sinspawn Ammes so that it only does Demi 4 or less times. I've had 4 happen a few times on SS attempts or test runs, but not very often. 3 Demis might be possible with a crit Dragon Fang and/or Spiral Cut plus a regular Auron crit. Save after Sinspawn Ammes.

The current run doesn't save until the Ruins, but I think it's worth it to save here to get the maximum luck manipulation out of both parts. Actually, if anyone knows the exact amount of time saving takes on a memory card with one file it will help with planning a lot.

Segment 2 - Changing weapon here instead of attacking lets you start attacking the Tanker faster, but I also want to get the lowest amount of sinscale attacks possible. I also want to get a Pre-emptive Strike on the Sahagins and Ambushed on Geogesano. Pre-emptive on the Sahagins is more important, so I might take just that, unless I get Pre-emptive on Geogesano as well. Assuming all that goes well, then I have to climb the stairs of death; yeah, the ones I have to zig-zag up and get stuck on the corners every time. Then I am going to get the Withered Bouquet and Flint before saving so I don't have to do it before Klikk every time. Save outside the Flint room.

More planning to come later :p

I forgot to mention the Select skip on the intro scene which will save a cool two minutes right off the bat :p

Now that I'm done (I think) with the Single Segment New Game run, I am starting to think about working on Segmented New Game Plus. If I do this, I will be going for extreme optimization, so it will be a very long process; both planning and recording. My initial goal is sub-10 hours, but I'm not sure yet if that is possible (if it is, it will be just barely).

I welcome any improvement ideas anyone might have.

I'll get started with my plan for the first two segments:

[b]Segment 1[/b] - Manipulate crits on Sinspawn Ammes so that it only does Demi 4 or less times.  I've had 4 happen a few times on SS attempts or test runs, but not very often.  3 Demis might be possible with a crit Dragon Fang and/or Spiral Cut plus a regular Auron crit. [u]Save after Sinspawn Ammes.[/u]

The current run doesn't save until the Ruins, but I think it's worth it to save here to get the maximum luck manipulation out of both parts. Actually, if anyone knows the exact amount of time saving takes on  a memory card with one file it will help with planning a lot.

[b]Segment 2[/b] - Changing weapon here instead of attacking lets you start attacking the Tanker faster, but I also want to get the lowest amount of sinscale attacks possible. I also want to get a Pre-emptive Strike on the Sahagins and Ambushed on Geogesano. Pre-emptive on the Sahagins is more important, so I might take just that, unless I get Pre-emptive on Geogesano as well.  Assuming all that goes well, then I have to climb the stairs of death; yeah, the ones I have to zig-zag up and get stuck on the corners every time. Then I am going to get the Withered Bouquet and Flint before saving so I don't have to do it before Klikk every time. [u]Save outside the Flint room.[/u]

More planning to come later :p

I forgot to mention the Select skip on the intro scene which will save a cool two minutes right off the bat :p

Nitrodon

2011-10-25 11:46:05 pm

I decided to check your Tanker battle, and you do it slightly wrong. (I would have told you earlier, but I never seem to catch the beginning of your runs.) The dialogue that lets you start attacking the Tanker occurs on Auron's second turn. Auron should indeed switch weapons to get his second turn more quickly, but Tidus should simply defend, as getting another turn before Auron's second won't help at all.

The Japanese RTA does this exactly as I described.

Caracarn

Edit history:

Caracarn: 2011-10-26 12:01:08 am

2011-10-25 11:57:53 pm

Will defending with Tidus instead of changing weapon possibly make any sinscales get a turn faster?

~~Also, 2 Demis might even be possible actually, but I think that requires Dragon Fang and Spiral Cut to both crit, plus one more normal crit. Very low chance of that happening.~~ Nevermind, Sinspawn Ammes has 2400 HP, for some reason I was thinking it had 2000

Nitrodon

2011-10-26 12:04:04 am

Defending with Tidus instead of changing weapon will have no effect whatsoever on how the battle goes (with the exception of damage dealt to Tidus, of course). The only real difference is that it's faster to input "defend once" instead of "change weapon twice".

Caracarn

Edit history:

Caracarn: 2011-10-26 12:07:43 am

Caracarn: 2011-10-26 12:07:25 am

2011-10-26 12:06:41 am

Oh, he only has to defend once. Ok that's a no-brainer then.

(as in, I wasn't using my brain :P)

Raelcun

2011-10-26 06:16:16 am

We require more minerals

I think you doing a segmented version is just to say screw you to all those ambushes before you get the sonic steel so you can do luck manipulation to have a video without any. lol anyways sounds awesome already really want to see the finished product.

FlamingMage

2011-10-26 11:07:19 am

Is there, perchance, a FFX speed run with cutscenes removed posted anywhere?