Final Fantasy X

2011-08-06 03:16:39 pm

I've attached the report I typed up for the RTA on nicovideo http://www.nicovideo.jp/mylist/23825240

I went through it twice so everything should be correct. I think sub 11 in SDA timing should be possible using this strategy, but it is a bit conservative; there weren't many places where he could have really died.

Hope this report helps with watching that run, but if it doesn't; oh well, it helped me at least :p

Attachment:

Final Fantasy X RTA Report.docx

Nitrodon

2011-08-06 05:32:05 pm

I didn't watch the run, but I have some random thoughts based on the report alone:

He uses 22 agility nodes? That seems a bit much for a speedrun. Also, the final agility values for Tidus (27) and Kimahri (33) seem wrong: the last +4 agility node each of them activated would not have affected anything.

Waiting until after Isaaru to use the Magic Sphere has to be a mistake.

Using Haste against Yunalesca was a waste of time. I understand that Tidus's and Kimahri's agility made them act before Rikku, but simply defending would have worked equally well. I'm not sure why the report suggests that Rikku acts before Kimahri in some earlier boss battles.

While the Spectral Keeper strategy works fine, I suspect it's faster to just make him survive the counter (requires 2844 HP) instead.

Kimahri activated several HP nodes after Omnis, but there's no reason to let any bosses get a turn after that point.

I tried following the BFA strategy on paper, but it looks like Tidus doesn't talk until well after BFA's first turn (which would be either just before or just after Tidus uses a Fire Gem). This is bad, because letting him attack Tidus or Kimahri would most likely end the run.

I didn't watch the run, but I have some random thoughts based on the report alone:

He uses 22 agility nodes? That seems a bit much for a speedrun.  Also, the final agility values for Tidus (27) and Kimahri (33) seem wrong: the last +4 agility node each of them activated would not have affected anything.

Waiting until after Isaaru to use the Magic Sphere has to be a mistake.

Using Haste against Yunalesca was a waste of time.  I understand that Tidus's and Kimahri's agility made them act before Rikku, but simply defending would have worked equally well.  I'm not sure why the report suggests that Rikku acts before Kimahri in some earlier boss battles.

While the Spectral Keeper strategy works fine, I suspect it's faster to just make him survive the counter (requires 2844 HP) instead.

Kimahri activated several HP nodes after Omnis, but there's no reason to let any bosses get a turn after that point.

I tried following the BFA strategy on paper, but it looks like Tidus doesn't talk until well after BFA's first turn (which would be either just before or just after Tidus uses a Fire Gem).  This is bad, because letting him attack Tidus or Kimahri would most likely end the run.

Caracarn

2011-08-06 07:25:37 pm

Quote:

Waiting until after Isaaru to use the Magic Sphere has to be a mistake.

Good point, I'm not sure why he didn't use it before Isarru. I'm not sure if it would have changed the aeon fights though, but there was no reason not to use it there. Actually he probably should have used it before Seymour/Anima, if there was an empty node available, because he failed to kill Anima with Diamond Dust by a few hundred HP.

Quote:

I'm not sure why the report suggests that Rikku acts before Kimahri in some earlier boss battles.

I actually didn't put in-battle formation switches in the report, though maybe I should have. If Rikku acts first, it's probably switching her in on Kimahri or Tidus' turn.

Quote:

Kimahri activated several HP nodes after Omnis, but there's no reason to let any bosses get a turn after that point.

I tried following the BFA strategy on paper, but it looks like Tidus doesn't talk until well after BFA's first turn (which would be either just before or just after Tidus uses a Fire Gem). This is bad, because letting him attack Tidus or Kimahri would most likely end the run.

I also didn't put enemy attacks in the report, though again, maybe I should have, at least sometimes. BFA ends up attacking once and hitting Rikku for 2719, after the first Fire Gem. Kimahri has 3568 HP and Tidus has 3322 HP, so that extra HP must be to survive that one attack in case he doesn't hit Rikku. Kimahri/Tidus also have +10% HP armor equipped.

[quote]Waiting until after Isaaru to use the Magic Sphere has to be a mistake.[/quote]

Good point, I'm not sure why he didn't use it before Isarru. I'm not sure if it would have changed the aeon fights though, but there was no reason not to use it there. Actually he probably should have used it before Seymour/Anima, if there was an empty node available, because he failed to kill Anima with Diamond Dust by a few hundred HP.

[quote]I'm not sure why the report suggests that Rikku acts before Kimahri in some earlier boss battles.[/quote]

I actually didn't put in-battle formation switches in the report, though maybe I should have. If Rikku acts first, it's probably switching her in on Kimahri or Tidus' turn.

[quote]Kimahri activated several HP nodes after Omnis, but there's no reason to let any bosses get a turn after that point.

I tried following the BFA strategy on paper, but it looks like Tidus doesn't talk until well after BFA's first turn (which would be either just before or just after Tidus uses a Fire Gem).  This is bad, because letting him attack Tidus or Kimahri would most likely end the run.[/quote]

I also didn't put enemy attacks in the report, though again, maybe I should have, at least sometimes. BFA ends up attacking once and hitting Rikku for 2719, after the first Fire Gem. Kimahri has 3568 HP and Tidus has 3322 HP, so that extra HP must be to survive that one attack in case he doesn't hit Rikku.  Kimahri/Tidus also have +10% HP armor equipped.

Nitrodon

2011-08-07 01:24:15 am

Quote from Caracarn:

I'm not sure if it would have changed the aeon fights though, but there was no reason not to use it there. Actually he probably should have used it before Seymour/Anima, if there was an empty node available, because he failed to kill Anima with Diamond Dust by a few hundred HP.

It would have slightly changed the Spathi battle at least. According to a damage calculator, 49 magic on Shiva (44 on Yuna) would make Blizzara deal about 2500 damage, thus requiring 4 hits instead of 5 most of the time.

And yeah, the Magic Sphere also helps against Seymour/Anima, as Essentia can personally attest.

Quote:

BFA ends up attacking once and hitting Rikku for 2719, after the first Fire Gem. Kimahri has 3568 HP and Tidus has 3322 HP, so that extra HP must be to survive that one attack in case he doesn't hit Rikku. Kimahri/Tidus also have +10% HP armor equipped.

At least in the version I have (NA), BFA's attack causes Delay. Even if Tidus survived, he would not be able to talk before BFA's next turn. Then again, I'm not entirely sure that would be insurmountable. However, if he can use Jecht Beam on his first turn, that could cause even worse problems.

It's possible that this is another version difference. The FAQ I use does not mention this Delay effect at all.

[quote="Caracarn"]I'm not sure if it would have changed the aeon fights though, but there was no reason not to use it there. Actually he probably should have used it before Seymour/Anima, if there was an empty node available, because he failed to kill Anima with Diamond Dust by a few hundred HP.[/quote]
It would have slightly changed the Spathi battle at least.  According to a damage calculator, 49 magic on Shiva (44 on Yuna) would make Blizzara deal about 2500 damage, thus requiring 4 hits instead of 5 most of the time.

And yeah, the Magic Sphere also helps against Seymour/Anima, as Essentia can personally attest.

[quote]BFA ends up attacking once and hitting Rikku for 2719, after the first Fire Gem. Kimahri has 3568 HP and Tidus has 3322 HP, so that extra HP must be to survive that one attack in case he doesn't hit Rikku.  Kimahri/Tidus also have +10% HP armor equipped.[/quote]
At least in the version I have (NA), BFA's attack causes Delay.  Even if Tidus survived, he would not be able to talk before BFA's next turn.  Then again, I'm not entirely sure that would be insurmountable.  However, if he can use Jecht Beam on his first turn, that could cause even worse problems.

It's possible that this is another version difference.  The FAQ I use does not mention this Delay effect at all.

Nitrodon

2011-08-09 11:34:15 am

Teaching Lulu Steal after Gui seems to require more than simply getting an early Key Sphere. Giving her the 19 Sphere Levels necessary to reach Steal requires 2013 AP, but she only gets about 1300-1320 from forced battles. The remaining 700ish AP would have to come from random battles and/or killing the arms as Seymour. Most enemies in Mushroom Rock Road give 32 AP, and they tend to come in groups of three, so that's 96 AP per battle. Overkilling both arms as Seymour gives a total of 110 AP.

Clearly, the person who did the RTA thought this was worth it, at least when combined with the extra spheres obtained from random battles. Personally, I'm not convinced, though giving Lulu Use would certainly simplify planning in the BFA battle.

Caracarn

2011-08-09 03:35:53 pm

He gets a lot of AP on Mi'ihen Highroad and on Mushroom Rock Road. He does use the Sphere Grid quite a bit in this run, probably more than necessary; but that's why I said it seems like a pretty conservative/safe strategy. I always end up missing Essentia's single segment attempts, so I'm not sure how she does it differently. Hopefully I will get to see the next one.

Nitrodon

2011-08-10 08:22:25 pm

Indeed, I'm simply questioning whether the early Petrify Grenades (and other benefits) are worth the additional battles fought.

I've also given some thought to the amount of agility needed. I've decided that Tidus should probably have 20 agility on Mt. Gagazet, and probably doesn't need any more agility later. The reasons for this are as follows:

* He will be faster than Grenades, which makes stealing Fire Gems much easier.
* He gets an additional action against Flux, which significantly increases the chances of defeating him.
* If I'm not mistaken, the Yunalesca battle will not require Haste status at all.
* With Haste, he can use 3 items (and Talk once) before BFA's second turn.

Unfortunately, this is still not fast enough to safely steal from Nebiros, especially if they appear with a Skoll.

To obtain 20 agility at that point and still be able to learn Entrust with a Return Sphere later, he needs a total of 62 sphere levels (81256 AP) after Yunalesca. He may not quite reach this if he dies against Evrae Altana, but that can be fixed by stealing from machina on Mt. Gagazet. Only one person really needs Entrust: Tidus's overdrive can fill along with Rikku's in the fin battles, so he will be ready to use Entrust again in the Overdrive Sin battle.

Rikku probably wants 23 agility, if only because she needs to be faster than Tidus. I also want to buy the Haste Targe from Wantz on Mt. Gagazet and give it to her. It's kind of useless in a segmented run, but she reaches 1 HP relatively often in single-segment runs, so this could easily be useful.

As for Kimahri, I'm not sure yet. There is one place where 12 agility might help, but I don't want to mention why lest I jinx something. Otherwise, he probably doesn't need to increase his agility at all.

Indeed, I'm simply questioning whether the early Petrify Grenades (and other benefits) are worth the additional battles fought.

I've also given some thought to the amount of agility needed.  I've decided that Tidus should probably have 20 agility on Mt. Gagazet, and probably doesn't need any more agility later.  The reasons for this are as follows:

* He will be faster than Grenades, which makes stealing Fire Gems much easier.
* He gets an additional action against Flux, which significantly increases the chances of defeating him.
* If I'm not mistaken, the Yunalesca battle will not require Haste status at all.
* With Haste, he can use 3 items (and Talk once) before BFA's second turn.

Unfortunately, this is still not fast enough to safely steal from Nebiros, especially if they appear with a Skoll.

To obtain 20 agility at that point and still be able to learn Entrust with a Return Sphere later, he needs a total of 62 sphere levels (81256 AP) after Yunalesca.  He may not quite reach this if he dies against Evrae Altana, but that can be fixed by stealing from machina on Mt. Gagazet.  Only one person really needs Entrust: Tidus's overdrive can fill along with Rikku's in the fin battles, so he will be ready to use Entrust again in the Overdrive Sin battle.

Rikku probably wants 23 agility, if only because she needs to be faster than Tidus.  I also want to buy the Haste Targe from Wantz on Mt. Gagazet and give it to her.  It's kind of useless in a segmented run, but she reaches 1 HP relatively often in single-segment runs, so this could easily be useful.

As for Kimahri, I'm not sure yet.  There is one place where 12 agility might help, but I don't want to mention why lest I jinx something.  Otherwise, he probably doesn't need to increase his agility at all.

Caracarn

2011-08-13 04:09:12 pm

If BFA does indeed inflict Delay on the Japanese version, I'd say he got pretty damn lucky that BFA hit Rikku. I tested it and I would almost always Game Over if it hit Kimahri or Tidus. However, I had 100% success if Tidus talked twice on BFA's first form, and I would kill it without it attacking once. The Pagodas would start moving occasionally though.

I checked out the Haste Targe and it costs 90k gil. I'm not sure if it's possible to get that much Gil in a New Game run, since you don't have the Underdog's secrets to sell.

Only Tidus needed to caste Haste on Yunalesca, but not Kimahri. I tried doing it without Haste, but sometimes Yunalesca would kill Tidus with Curaga and then he doesn't have enough AP to get to Entrust. Of course you can just Phoenix down him, but that would take more time than casting Haste.

Some of the early Agility increases on Kimahri are probably for Evrae, since you don't have Trio yet in a New Game run.

I think Tidus had 23 Agility at the Calm Lands, which allowed for 2 steals before fleeing without being attacked. There are usually enough encounters on the way to the Chocobo to get enough Poison Fangs and Fire Gems without having to steal more than twice per encounter.

And I just gotta say, the Wobbly Chocobo race sucks, lol.

If BFA does indeed inflict Delay on the Japanese version, I'd say he got pretty damn lucky that BFA hit Rikku.  I tested it and I would almost always Game Over if it hit Kimahri or Tidus.  However, I had 100% success if Tidus talked twice on BFA's first form, and I would kill it without it attacking once. The Pagodas would start moving occasionally though.

I checked out the Haste Targe and it costs 90k gil.  I'm not sure if it's possible to get that much Gil in a New Game run, since you don't have the Underdog's secrets to sell.

Only Tidus needed to caste Haste on Yunalesca, but not Kimahri. I tried doing it without Haste, but sometimes Yunalesca would kill Tidus with Curaga and then he doesn't have enough AP to get to Entrust. Of course you can just Phoenix down him, but that would take more time than casting Haste.

Some of the early Agility increases on Kimahri are probably for Evrae, since you don't have Trio yet in a New Game run.

I think Tidus had 23 Agility at the Calm Lands, which allowed for 2 steals before fleeing without being attacked. There are usually enough encounters on the way to the Chocobo to get enough Poison Fangs and Fire Gems without having to steal more than twice per encounter.

And I just gotta say, the Wobbly Chocobo race sucks, lol.

Nitrodon

Edit history:

Nitrodon: 2011-08-13 05:15:23 pm

2011-08-13 04:31:50 pm

I'm mainly thinking of a NG+ SS (and how to apply the NG RTA strategies to it). That said, you can sell 12 Wings to Discovery for 90k gil, and still have enough for all 11 Trios you need if you mix Wings to Discovery + Level 3/4 Key Sphere a few times.

As for Yunalesca, if you're already there, can you try without Haste, but with either Tidus or Kimahri (not both) defending on the first turn? I'm testing my own strategies (some of which were inspired by the RTA), and I'm only after Seymour Natus right now.

Also, if my numbers are right, Kimahri has 21 agility against Yunalesca. Is this accurate?

Caracarn

Edit history:

Caracarn: 2011-08-13 05:25:21 pm

2011-08-13 05:14:10 pm

Ah yeah, I wasn't thinking about selling the extra Wings. Selling the extra 8 for 60k should be plenty to get to 90k total.

I just did Yunalesca without Haste by defending with Tidus, then bringing Rikku in on Kimahri's turn to do Trio, then Lulu kills first form with Fire Gem, then Tidus kills 2nd form with Fire Gem, then Lulu + Tidus kill 3rd form. That was without 3rd form doing either Curaga or Regen. When I do it with Tidus and Kimahri both defending, Yunalesca gets either Curaga or Regen off before the last fire Gem. Regen is fine, but Curaga will kill.

Yes, Kimahri has 21 Agility all the way from right before Evrae until right before BFA.

Nitrodon

2011-08-13 05:20:24 pm

You seem to have posted right as I edited that last question into my post.

If both Fire Gem users have 19+ agility, and Yunalesca gets a turn in her third form, then something I was worried about is true. Of course, I'll probably get there soon enough to see for myself.

Caracarn

Edit history:

Caracarn: 2011-08-13 07:24:20 pm

Caracarn: 2011-08-13 06:21:06 pm

Caracarn: 2011-08-13 06:20:54 pm

2011-08-13 06:08:37 pm

I just tested BFA without increasing Kimahri's Agility past 21 and it seemed to work, as long as Tidus talked twice on BFA's first form. If I can consistently get BFA down without it attacking, I can probably skip a lot of the HP nodes on both Tidus and Kimahri as well, as long as Kimahri has enough HP for Self-Destruct where it's used. Edit: Scratch that, if the Pagodas start moving, I get wiped before I can finish him off.

I need to go back and test the Haste Targe to see how that will change things.

I'll post some videos later when I get a chance.

Nitrodon

2011-08-13 08:38:38 pm

I just reached Sanctuary Keeper. Even 20 agility on Tidus (and 23 on Rikku) makes stealing a joke: when I reached Flux, I had 23 Fire Gems, 2 Lightning Gems, and 2 Water Gems, and had fled from several Grenade battles. In a battle with 2 Grenades and 1 Imp, I have a 100% chance of stealing 5 gems and successfully escaping. I should also note that Tidus got an extra turn against Flux, just as I had planned.

Also, I noticed that having Rikku in critical HP adds a second or two to every random battle. This may be an argument against the Haste Targe, but my current BFA strategy requires it.

Nitrodon

2011-08-14 02:12:26 am

Well, I finished the NG+ test run. I sucked at the early game, and probably messed around too much, but oh well. Apart from taking breaks, I only loaded saves when I was testing something, made a really dumb mistake, or obtained Al Bhed Primer XXII.

1:37 Besaid - Beach (before boarding S.S. Liki)
2:09 Kilika - Pilgrimage Road (before Geneaux)
2:52 Luca Stadium - Main Gate (before machina and Oblitzerator)
3:24 Luca - After the Finals
3:57 Highroad - Agency (before Chocobo Eater)
4:32 Mushroom Rock - Ridge (before Gui)
5:20 Moonflow - South Wharf (before Extractor)
6:13 Macalania Woods - South
6:21 Macalania Woods - Lake Road (before Spherimorph)
6:40 Macalania - Hall (before Seymour)
7:03 Lake Macalania - Crevasse (before Wendigo)
7:27 Home
7:57 Airship - Cabin (before Evrae)
8:32 Bevelle - Via Purifico (before Isaaru)
8:52 Highbridge (before Natus)
9:23 Gagazet - Mountain Gate (before Biran and Yenke)
9:58 Gagazet - Mountain Cave (before Sanctuary Keeper)
10:18 Dome - Corridor
10:25 Dome - Trials
10:33 Dome - Chamber of the Fayth (after watching cutscenes)
10:55 Airship - Bridge (before Sin's fins and core)
11:11 Airship - Bridge (before Overdrive Sin)
11:23 Sin - Sea of Sorrow (before Omnis)
11:29 Sin - Tower of the Dead (final save; didn't actually save here, but noted the time in the menu)
11:33 Sin - Dream's End
11:40 BFA defeated
11:53 Yu Yevon defeated

Stuff I learned:

* Speedrunning without notes is a stupid idea. For instance, I had to redo Spherimorph far too many times because I forgot something I needed to do before Crawler.
* Also, Lightning Bolt failed to kill Spherimorph once.
* Though Lulu's magic was only 23 instead of 24, the Gui battle wasn't affected much. Lulu needs to hit the head 3 times and the body 4-5 times (4 is likely, 5 is extra safe)
* After Spherimorph, Kimahri was about 39 AP short of getting an additional HP node on the way to Use. Along with Tidus/Rikku's increased agility, this would have enabled a faster Wendigo battle. Then again, so would HP+3%.
* You can encounter Bombs on the airship before Evrae (in fact, I've seen nothing but Bombs there), so there's no reason to steal Bomb Cores in Home.
* Whoever put Al Bhed Primer XXII after Evrae was clearly sadistic.
* Even if Yuna has 44 magic, Ifrit vs Pterya is not the best matchup, though it's probably better than any alternatives. Fire deals 900 damage, and Hellfire deals 9200, so 3 Fires and a Hellfire doesn't quite kill him.
* However, Shiva can easily destroy Spathi under the same conditions, with no Mega Flare and without increasing Yuna's agility.
* If Yuna has enough HP to survive, and Rikku has 23 agility and SOS NulFrost (Arctic Wind x1), Natus dies easily without any Water Gems.
* Stealing from Nebiros is surprisingly easy at 20 agility. Even Skolls don't usually act before Tidus. Stealing from Grenades and Imps is even easier.
* The current strategy for Biran and Yenke does not work with 12 agility. However, since gems are easy to get now, and they overkill a lone Ronso, that might be safer anyway.
* It's probably worth it to heal Rikku after she fills her overdrive. Those seconds she stumbles around before defending add up. Removing her from the front lines will also work, but then you'd have to put her back in the active party before the next boss.
* The Haste Targe takes approximately 30 seconds to obtain. For comparison, watching both pagodas use Power Wave takes 18 seconds.
* If Tidus has 20 agility, then Seymour Flux's hope ends here, and his meaningless existence with it. I'm too lazy to calculate how much the Haste Targe improves the odds, but they're already pretty good without it.
* 2944 HP for Kimahri works perfectly against Spectral Keeper. I may try 2798 HP and 17 defense later.
* What I was thinking for Yunalesca does not work. However, casting Haste will make it work.
* I probably miscalculated or played it too safe, since Tidus still had 5 S.Lvl after learning Entrust. I know I completely ignored the battles in Home and Bevelle, which was a mistake.
* Entrust worked exactly as I hoped, so I didn't need to get into any random battles between Yunalesca and Overdrive Sin.
* The reason I wanted to give Kimahri 12 agility can happen, but 12 agility doesn't help (unless you waste time switching weapons or something). Also, it is possible to recover from this problem if you don't get extremely unlucky.
* I suck at Fire Fury, and only got 6 hits. Fortunately, there's a 2/3 chance that this doesn't matter at all. Other than that, my BFA strategy worked like a charm.

Well, I finished the NG+ test run.  I sucked at the early game, and probably messed around too much, but oh well.  Apart from taking breaks, I only loaded saves when I was testing something, made a really dumb mistake, or obtained Al Bhed Primer XXII.

[spoiler="times, feel free to laugh"]1:37 Besaid - Beach (before boarding S.S. Liki)
2:09 Kilika - Pilgrimage Road (before Geneaux)
2:52 Luca Stadium - Main Gate (before machina and Oblitzerator)
3:24 Luca - After the Finals
3:57 Highroad - Agency (before Chocobo Eater)
4:32 Mushroom Rock - Ridge (before Gui)
5:20 Moonflow - South Wharf (before Extractor)
6:13 Macalania Woods - South
6:21 Macalania Woods - Lake Road (before Spherimorph)
6:40 Macalania - Hall (before Seymour)
7:03 Lake Macalania - Crevasse (before Wendigo)
7:27 Home
7:57 Airship - Cabin (before Evrae)
8:32 Bevelle - Via Purifico (before Isaaru)
8:52 Highbridge (before Natus)
9:23 Gagazet - Mountain Gate (before Biran and Yenke)
9:58 Gagazet - Mountain Cave (before Sanctuary Keeper)
10:18 Dome - Corridor
10:25 Dome - Trials
10:33 Dome - Chamber of the Fayth (after watching cutscenes)
10:55 Airship - Bridge (before Sin's fins and core)
11:11 Airship - Bridge (before Overdrive Sin)
11:23 Sin - Sea of Sorrow (before Omnis)
11:29 Sin - Tower of the Dead (final save; didn't actually save here, but noted the time in the menu)
11:33 Sin - Dream's End
11:40 BFA defeated
11:53 Yu Yevon defeated[/spoiler]

Stuff I learned:

* Speedrunning without notes is a stupid idea.  For instance, I had to redo Spherimorph far too many times because I forgot something I needed to do before Crawler.
* Also, Lightning Bolt failed to kill Spherimorph once.
* Though Lulu's magic was only 23 instead of 24, the Gui battle wasn't affected much.  Lulu needs to hit the head 3 times and the body 4-5 times (4 is likely, 5 is extra safe)
* After Spherimorph, Kimahri was about 39 AP short of getting an additional HP node on the way to Use.  Along with Tidus/Rikku's increased agility, this would have enabled a faster Wendigo battle.  Then again, so would HP+3%.
* You can encounter Bombs on the airship before Evrae (in fact, I've seen nothing but Bombs there), so there's no reason to steal Bomb Cores in Home.
* Whoever put Al Bhed Primer XXII after Evrae was clearly sadistic.
* Even if Yuna has 44 magic, Ifrit vs Pterya is not the best matchup, though it's probably better than any alternatives.  Fire deals 900 damage, and Hellfire deals 9200, so 3 Fires and a Hellfire doesn't quite kill him.
* However, Shiva can easily destroy Spathi under the same conditions, with no Mega Flare and without increasing Yuna's agility.
* If Yuna has enough HP to survive, and Rikku has 23 agility and SOS NulFrost (Arctic Wind x1), Natus dies easily without any Water Gems.
* Stealing from Nebiros is surprisingly easy at 20 agility.  Even Skolls don't usually act before Tidus.  Stealing from Grenades and Imps is even easier.
* The current strategy for Biran and Yenke does not work with 12 agility.  However, since gems are easy to get now, and they overkill a lone Ronso, that might be safer anyway.
* It's probably worth it to heal Rikku after she fills her overdrive.  Those seconds she stumbles around before defending add up.  Removing her from the front lines will also work, but then you'd have to put her back in the active party before the next boss.
* The Haste Targe takes approximately 30 seconds to obtain.  For comparison, watching both pagodas use Power Wave takes 18 seconds.
* If Tidus has 20 agility, then Seymour Flux's hope ends here, and his meaningless existence with it.  I'm too lazy to calculate how much the Haste Targe improves the odds, but they're already pretty good without it.
* 2944 HP for Kimahri works perfectly against Spectral Keeper.  I may try 2798 HP and 17 defense later.
* What I was thinking for Yunalesca does not work.  However, casting Haste will make it work.
* I probably miscalculated or played it too safe, since Tidus still had 5 S.Lvl after learning Entrust.  I know I completely ignored the battles in Home and Bevelle, which was a mistake.
* Entrust worked exactly as I hoped, so I didn't need to get into any random battles between Yunalesca and Overdrive Sin.
* The reason I wanted to give Kimahri 12 agility can happen, but 12 agility doesn't help (unless you waste time switching weapons or something).  Also, it is possible to recover from this problem if you don't get extremely unlucky.
* I suck at Fire Fury, and only got 6 hits.  Fortunately, there's a 2/3 chance that this doesn't matter at all.  Other than that, my BFA strategy worked like a charm.

BaronHaynes

2011-08-16 03:48:48 pm

Strange days, incredible days

For whatever it's worth, I have an easier time doing Fury attacks if I put my palm flat against the analog stick and rotate it that way, rather than using my thumb.

Fragmaster01

2011-08-16 05:25:26 pm

Wiggle wiggle

Ditto on the Fury, though I never liked trying to do it anyway. A side note, you can get more hits with Fury if Lulu's magic stat is higher, though I doubt you have much ability to change that.

Nitrodon

2011-08-16 11:40:24 pm

Tossing two gems takes about the same amount of time as Fire Fury, so I may end up doing that instead if I can't get Fire Fury to work. However, this would lose some time if BFA decides to act at the early end of his range.

Nitrodon

Edit history:

Nitrodon: 2011-08-25 11:36:29 pm

2011-08-25 11:35:47 pm

Quote from Nitrodon:

* You can encounter Bombs on the airship before Evrae (in fact, I've seen nothing but Bombs there), so there's no reason to steal Bomb Cores in Home.

I must have had some weird luck in that test run. Including testing and getting Al Bhed Primer XXII, I had about 3 encounters on the airship, and all were 3x Bomb. Now that my second test run is past that point, I retract this statement.

Quote:

* I probably miscalculated or played it too safe, since Tidus still had 5 S.Lvl after learning Entrust. I know I completely ignored the battles in Home and Bevelle, which was a mistake.

This is probably because Tidus survived Seymour Flux, and my AP calculations didn't count on that for obvious reasons.

Also, I should report that my current test run purchased a Seeker's Armlet (HP+5%) in Kilika. As a result, one fewer Fire was needed against Gui, and I could guarantee Wendigo's death before the Guado Guardians could act. However, I was stupid and messed up the Wendigo battle anyway.

[quote="Nitrodon"]* You can encounter Bombs on the airship before Evrae (in fact, I've seen nothing but Bombs there), so there's no reason to steal Bomb Cores in Home.
[/quote]
I must have had some weird luck in that test run.  Including testing and getting Al Bhed Primer XXII, I had about 3 encounters on the airship, and all were 3x Bomb.  Now that my second test run is past that point, I retract this statement.

[quote]* I probably miscalculated or played it too safe, since Tidus still had 5 S.Lvl after learning Entrust.  I know I completely ignored the battles in Home and Bevelle, which was a mistake.[/quote]
This is probably because Tidus survived Seymour Flux, and my AP calculations didn't count on that for obvious reasons.

Also, I should report that my current test run purchased a Seeker's Armlet (HP+5%) in Kilika.  As a result, one fewer Fire was needed against Gui, and I could guarantee Wendigo's death before the Guado Guardians could act.  However, I was stupid and messed up the Wendigo battle anyway.

Caracarn

2011-08-26 07:26:58 am

I'm still working on this; trying to refine strategies and improve my execution speed. My last run I got a Game Over on the last encounter of the Thunder Plains: Ambushed by 2 Buers and an Iron Giant. Tidus gets confused, Yuna gets killed, Wakka fails to escape, Wakka gets killed, Tidus kills himself. GG, lol. It was actually a pretty decent run up to that point, except the blitzball game sucked, I had to get 2 extra encounters at Djose to get enough Petrify Grenades, and I screwed up on Extractor. Even so, I was still about 5 minutes ahead of that JP RTA. I definitely think I can get a sub 11 hour regular game run with good enough play/luck.

Caracarn

Edit history:

Caracarn: 2011-08-27 09:34:37 pm

Caracarn: 2011-08-27 07:23:17 pm

Caracarn: 2011-08-27 07:22:03 pm

2011-08-27 07:14:16 pm

I finished a run in 11:13. I had decent luck, but the play was pretty sloppy overall, especially in the last 1/4. Which is pretty bad since I have practiced the later parts more often than the early/mid stages. It was probably just due to me being tired. On this run I didn't get Special Spheres from Seymour or Friend Spheres from Biran/Yenke, so I was short one Entrust. I need to figure out the best way to refill Rikku's Overdrive in place of one of those Entrusts, because I really can't count on rare drops in a single segment run. It's actually surprising how many times I have had Seymour drop Special Spheres.

I need to do a better job of item management as well; I stole way too many Fire Gems at Gagazet for instance. And I need to work on having less hesitation when selecting items from the list, especially on mixes (at least Trio is an easy mix). I also need to keep trips to the menu at a minimum; like I go to the Sphere Grid, but then forget to equip something or change the formation, and have to go back to the menu. I also need to keep the Sphere Grid changes together as much as possible.

Aside from that, theres other little things I need to practice, like the Bevelle Cloister of Trials, the part right before BFA with the icicles, the Mt. Gagazet trial where you have to throw Wakka's ball into that orb thing (It's stupid how bad I am at that), the Wobbly Chocobo race, and even pushing the stupid pedestal in the Djose trials gives me a headache.

I was just thinking; it might be faster to get Kimahri Steal before Djose instead of Lulu. He only needs 1 more S.Lvl, which he can probably get by taking a turn on the Mushroom Rock Road battles, and then I may not have to kill anything on the Mi'ihen Highroad. Yuna still needs 11 S.Lvls before Gui for this strategy though, so I'm not sure yet how that would be affected.

Split times:

Intro - 18:34
Baaj Temple - 47:38
Besaid - 1:44:33
Kilika - 2:20:08
Luca - 3:21:44
Mi'ihen Highroad - 3:50:41
Mushroom Rock Road - 4:20:25
Djose - 4:44:04
Moonflow - 5:03:38
Guadosalam - 5:24:54
Thunder Plains - 5:40:39
Macalania Woods - 5:56:50
Macalania Snowfield - 6:35:34
Bikanel Island - 7:08:38
Bevelle - 8:25:06
Calm Lands - 8:40:14
Mt. Gagazet - 9:26:51
Zanarkand Ruins - 10:09:32
Sin - 11:13:37

I finished a run in 11:13.  I had decent luck, but the play was pretty sloppy overall, especially in the last 1/4.  Which is pretty bad since I have practiced the later parts more often than the early/mid stages. It was probably just due to me being tired.  On this run I didn't get Special Spheres from Seymour or Friend Spheres from Biran/Yenke, so I was short one Entrust.  I need to figure out the best way to refill Rikku's Overdrive in place of one of those Entrusts, because I really can't count on rare drops in a single segment run.  It's actually surprising how many times I have had Seymour drop Special Spheres.

I need to do a better job of item management as well; I stole way too many Fire Gems at Gagazet for instance.  And I need to work on having less hesitation when selecting items from the list, especially on mixes (at least Trio is an easy mix).  I also need to keep trips to the menu at a minimum; like I go to the Sphere Grid, but then forget to equip something or change the formation, and have to go back to the menu.  I also need to keep the Sphere Grid changes together as much as possible.

Aside from that, theres other little things I need to practice, like the Bevelle Cloister of Trials, the part right before BFA with the icicles, the Mt. Gagazet trial where you have to throw Wakka's ball into that orb thing (It's stupid how bad I am at that), the Wobbly Chocobo race, and even pushing the stupid pedestal in the Djose trials gives me a headache.

I was just thinking; it might be faster to get Kimahri Steal before Djose instead of Lulu. He only needs 1 more S.Lvl, which he can probably get by taking a turn on the Mushroom Rock Road battles, and then I may not have to kill anything on the Mi'ihen Highroad. Yuna still needs 11 S.Lvls before Gui for this strategy though, so I'm not sure yet how that would be affected.

Split times: 
[hidden]Intro - 18:34
Baaj Temple - 47:38
Besaid - 1:44:33
Kilika - 2:20:08
Luca - 3:21:44
Mi'ihen Highroad - 3:50:41
Mushroom Rock Road - 4:20:25
Djose - 4:44:04
Moonflow - 5:03:38
Guadosalam - 5:24:54
Thunder Plains - 5:40:39
Macalania Woods - 5:56:50
Macalania Snowfield - 6:35:34
Bikanel Island - 7:08:38
Bevelle - 8:25:06
Calm Lands - 8:40:14
Mt. Gagazet - 9:26:51
Zanarkand Ruins - 10:09:32
Sin - 11:13:37[/hidden]

Nitrodon

2011-08-30 05:44:00 pm

I completed a second test run in about 11:11. I saved more in the early game this time because I was less sure of my route, and less in the late game because I felt like it (and to practice longer sessions without saving).

Save times:

0:21 Ruins - Underwater Hall
0:48 Unknown Sea
1:19 Besaid - Crusaders Lodge
1:30 Besaid - Beach
1:53 Kilika - Inn
2:24 Near Luca
2:53 Stadium - Locker Room
3:29 Highroad - South End
4:24 Mushroom Rock - Aftermath
4:53 Moonflow - South Wharf
5:45 Macalania Woods - South
6:32 Lake Macalania - Crevasse
7:38 Bevelle - Priests' Passage
7:53 Bevelle - Via Purifico (before Isaaru)
8:36 Calm Lands - Near Bridge
9:09 Gagazet - Mountain Cave
9:38 Dome - Corridor
10:38 Sin - Near Airship

BFA was defeated around 10:57 (I think), and Yu Yevon was defeated at 11:10-11:11ish.

My AP route had an error that I needed to correct later, and I did a few generally stupid things, but I suppose this is a start. I may do an attempt sometime if I feel like it.

I completed a second test run in about 11:11.  I saved more in the early game this time because I was less sure of my route, and less in the late game because I felt like it (and to practice longer sessions without saving).

Save times:
[spoiler]0:21 Ruins - Underwater Hall
0:48 Unknown Sea
1:19 Besaid - Crusaders Lodge
1:30 Besaid - Beach
1:53 Kilika - Inn
2:24 Near Luca
2:53 Stadium - Locker Room
3:29 Highroad - South End
4:24 Mushroom Rock - Aftermath
4:53 Moonflow - South Wharf
5:45 Macalania Woods - South
6:32 Lake Macalania - Crevasse
7:38 Bevelle - Priests' Passage
7:53 Bevelle - Via Purifico (before Isaaru)
8:36 Calm Lands - Near Bridge
9:09 Gagazet - Mountain Cave
9:38 Dome - Corridor
10:38 Sin - Near Airship

BFA was defeated around 10:57 (I think), and Yu Yevon was defeated at 11:10-11:11ish.[/spoiler]

My AP route had an error that I needed to correct later, and I did a few generally stupid things, but I suppose this is a start.  I may do an attempt sometime if I feel like it.

Caracarn

2011-09-24 06:01:38 pm

In case anyone missed it, I completed a Single Segment New Game run in just under 11 hours. I'd say I had pretty decent luck throughout, but there were some really big mistakes that cost me an even better time. Because of those mistakes it is doubtful that I will submit this run, but now I know that sub-11 is possible at least. Hopefully I will be able to beat this time and not have any major mistakes.

Here is the live broadcast if anyone wants to watch any of it

http://www.twitch.tv/caracarnvi/b/295844524

Caracarn

Edit history:

Caracarn: 2011-10-01 07:13:01 pm

Caracarn: 2011-10-01 07:10:51 pm

2011-10-01 07:06:11 pm

Not being satisfied with "just barely sub-11," I did another run today that finished in 10:55:56 real time. However, there was a really ugly part yet again that is keeping me from submitting. I went into Spherimorph without any Fish Scales, and ofc it had water weakness, so I thought the run was over right there. Before I reset though, I realized that Lulu could make it Elemental Shift by casting Water on it. Not before I wasted about a minute thinking about what I was going to do though.

http://www.twitch.tv/caracarnvi/b/296411691

Here are some other things of note in this run:

Ambush Fantasy X was the name of the game early on. I literally got 6 ambushes in a row from Mi'ihen Highroad through Mushroom Rock Road (not counting Chocobo Eater). There were also a couple of near Game Overs, one on the Mi'ihen Highroad and another on the Thunder Plains.

I got really bad weapon/armor drops before Luca, so I just barely had enough Gil for the Stunning Steel and I ended up selling Wakka's starting ball, which is bad because...

Extractor was REALLY slow, because Wakka only had the Icestrike Scout (Extractor takes 1/2 damage from all but lightning), and I didn't get enough AP to get to his next +2 Strength node either, so he was doing pitiful damage.

I made a route error on the Macalania Cloister of Trials that wasted probably 30 seconds.

Garuda after the blitzball game counterattacked a lot. I wish I could figure out some strategy for this miniboss, but I've got nothing so far.

I had a new strat in the Via Purifico, so I summoned Valefor against the first Maze Larva to finish filling it's OD. In practice, it would always cast Watera on Valefor after one Thunder, and then I would kill it with the second Thunder, but this time it kept casting Watera on itself, so it took probably 5 or 6 Thunders to kill it instead. I also was just barely short on AP for Yuna after that encounter, so I had to get another Maze Larva, even though I would have made it to Isarru with only one. It actually probably wasted more time than the +4 magic saved though.

No Special Spheres or Friend Spheres on this run, but that is normal, and I still did Sin's Fins pretty quickly even without the extra Entrusts.

I forgot to add Tidus' last Agility node before Flux, but it turns out I didn't need it; Rikku never acted before Tidus even when they both had 23 agility. Whether she ever could though, I'm not sure.

Nucleus was a piece of shit. I ran into 2 invisible icicles, as well as 2 visible ones, and the item spawn (and disappearing) was pretty terrible too.

It's confirmed that I don't need to Haste either Tidus or Kimahri on BFA, it worked perfectly without it (although I almost used another Grenade with Kimahri instead of a Fire Gem on 2nd form).

And Nitrodon, you will hate me for saying this, but I accidently stole a Chocobo Feather in this run that I never needed to use (I got pre-emptive strike on a Cactuar and i was spamming X so Rikku stole before I did Flee).

I did have good luck in a lot of places, however, so it was still a pretty good run. I will be trying more runs before I submit this though.

Not being satisfied with "just barely sub-11," I did another run today that finished in 10:55:56 real time.  However, there was a really ugly part yet again that is keeping me from submitting.  I went into Spherimorph without any Fish Scales, and ofc it had water weakness, so I thought the run was over right there. Before I reset though, I realized that Lulu could make it Elemental Shift by casting Water on it. Not before I wasted about a minute thinking about what I was going to do though.

[url]http://www.twitch.tv/caracarnvi/b/296411691[/url]

Here are some other things of note in this run:

Ambush Fantasy X was the name of the game early on. I literally got 6 ambushes in a row from Mi'ihen Highroad through Mushroom Rock Road (not counting Chocobo Eater). There were also a couple of near Game Overs, one on the Mi'ihen Highroad and another on the Thunder Plains.

I got really bad weapon/armor drops before Luca, so I just barely had enough Gil for the Stunning Steel and I ended up selling Wakka's starting ball, which is bad because...

Extractor was REALLY slow, because Wakka only had the Icestrike Scout (Extractor takes 1/2 damage from all but lightning), and I didn't get enough AP to get to his next +2 Strength node either, so he was doing pitiful damage.

I made a route error on the Macalania Cloister of Trials that wasted probably 30 seconds.

Garuda after the blitzball game counterattacked a lot. I wish I could figure out some strategy for this miniboss, but I've got nothing so far.

I had a new strat in the Via Purifico, so I summoned Valefor against the first Maze Larva to finish filling it's OD.  In practice, it would always cast Watera on Valefor after one Thunder, and then I would kill it with the second Thunder, but this time it kept casting Watera on itself, so it took probably 5 or 6 Thunders to kill it instead.  I also was just barely short on AP for Yuna after that encounter, so I had to get another Maze Larva, even though I would have made it to Isarru with only one.  It actually probably wasted more time than the +4 magic saved though.

No Special Spheres or Friend Spheres on this run, but that is normal, and I still did Sin's Fins pretty quickly even without the extra Entrusts.

I forgot to add Tidus' last Agility node before Flux, but it turns out I didn't need it; Rikku never acted before Tidus even when they both had 23 agility. Whether she ever could though, I'm not sure.

Nucleus was a piece of shit.  I ran into 2 invisible icicles, as well as 2 visible ones, and the item spawn (and disappearing) was pretty terrible too.

It's confirmed that I don't need to Haste either Tidus or Kimahri on BFA, it worked perfectly without it (although I almost used another Grenade with Kimahri instead of a Fire Gem on 2nd form).

And Nitrodon, you will hate me for saying this, but I accidently stole a Chocobo Feather in this run that I never needed to use (I got pre-emptive strike on a Cactuar and i was spamming X so Rikku stole before I did Flee).

I did have good luck in a lot of places, however, so it was still a pretty good run. I will be trying more runs before I submit this though.

Fragmaster01

Edit history:

Fragmaster01: 2011-10-02 06:27:34 am

Fragmaster01: 2011-10-02 05:53:43 am

Fragmaster01: 2011-10-02 05:35:07 am

Fragmaster01: 2011-10-02 05:26:34 am

Fragmaster01: 2011-10-02 05:25:32 am

Fragmaster01: 2011-10-02 05:20:11 am

Fragmaster01: 2011-10-02 05:01:02 am

Fragmaster01: 2011-10-02 05:00:05 am

Fragmaster01: 2011-10-02 04:57:57 am

Fragmaster01: 2011-10-02 04:53:06 am

Fragmaster01: 2011-10-02 04:45:33 am

Fragmaster01: 2011-10-02 04:43:31 am

Fragmaster01: 2011-10-02 04:31:41 am

Fragmaster01: 2011-10-02 04:31:24 am

2011-10-02 04:29:13 am

Wiggle wiggle

Did a quick watch, skipping those things like 'cutscenes' and most random battles:

Zanarkand Intro - It looks like it lags a bit right before Amnes. Are you playing on a Slim, or an older PS2?
Sin>Kilika - You could probably cut out one of Kimahri's Lancet's, and have him defend that round instead.
Luca - Yeah, you didn't actually need to sell the Official Ball anyway. You were 5 short, and the Longsword sells for 12. In later runs, if such a problem comes up again, perhaps dash into the Item Buy/Sell menu and sell potions instead, to avoid such wiggles.
Luca Sahagins - I'm curious as to why you pick and choose which enemies you attack in the final wave. Any reason behind it?
Luca Garuda - Perhaps drop a Haste on Auron, since he gets much better damage than the rest of the party?
General Stuff - Your Lulu sphere grid route amuses me. Horrible for a normal game, as you'd want to get her higher level spells, but since the Magic+'s are so spread out on her grid, running away from it works better. Very silly.
Before Gui - Aww, don't hate on the monsters for their ambushing ways. They just want to meet you, and say hi! A bit of petrification on the side never hurt anyone, right?
Extractor - Perhaps use Element Reels on it?
Snowfield Boss - I think Energy Ray has a slightly shorter animation than Energy Burst, and either one would finish it off. EDIT Nevermind. Just realized it forces you to watch the full animation once on each overdrive.
Bikanel - You use Shooting Star on the first Sandragora, then a Petrify Grenade on the second. Is the first one immune to Break?

Did a quick watch, skipping those things like 'cutscenes' and most random battles:

[b]Zanarkand Intro[/b] - It looks like it lags a bit right before Amnes. Are you playing on a Slim, or an older PS2?
[b]Sin>Kilika[/b] - You could probably cut out one of Kimahri's Lancet's, and have him defend that round instead.
[b]Luca[/b] - Yeah, you didn't actually need to sell the Official Ball anyway. You were 5 short, and the Longsword sells for 12. In later runs, if such a problem comes up again, perhaps dash into the Item Buy/Sell menu and sell potions instead, to avoid such wiggles.
[b]Luca Sahagins[/b] - I'm curious as to why you pick and choose which enemies you attack in the final wave. Any reason behind it?
[b]Luca Garuda[/b] - Perhaps drop a Haste on Auron, since he gets much better damage than the rest of the party?
[b]General Stuff[/b] - Your Lulu sphere grid route amuses me. Horrible for a normal game, as you'd want to get her higher level spells, but since the Magic+'s are so spread out on her grid, running away from it works better. Very silly.
[b]Before Gui[/b] - Aww, don't hate on the monsters for their ambushing ways. They just want to meet you, and say hi! A bit of petrification on the side never hurt anyone, right?
[b]Extractor[/b] - Perhaps use Element Reels on it?
[b]Snowfield Boss[/b] - I think Energy Ray has a slightly shorter animation than Energy Burst, and either one would finish it off. [b]EDIT[/b] Nevermind. Just realized it forces you to watch the full animation once on each overdrive. 
[b]Bikanel[/b] - You use Shooting Star on the first Sandragora, then a Petrify Grenade on the second. Is the first one immune to Break?

Caracarn

2011-10-02 03:21:36 pm

I'm playing on a slim PS2, but the lag might be from the capture device actually. It's been a while since I've played it just on a TV, so I can't remember if this game lags normally or not.

If I don't do the 2nd Lancet, Valefor might not kill it with low-end damage.

It's hard to keep track of how much the items I get are worth, so this part can be sloppy sometimes.

I pick the Sahagins that are going to get a turn if I don't kill them; unfortunately it doesn't save that much time when I am slow to select them.

I probably could Haste Auron; the counterattacks still seem pretty random though.

Only thing I really need extra magic for is the Red Elements on Mushroom Rock Road; it's much more effective to make her another Stealer/User.

Element Reels is really slow to use; it wouldn't really do enough damage to be worth it.

I only get 4 Petrify Grenades (1 for Wendigo, 1 for Sandragora, 1 for Home Bombs, and 1 for Home Chimeras), so Auron's OD is used for the other one.