Final Fantasy X

Edit history:

Eternalspirit: 2008-10-02 10:25:16 am

2008-10-02 09:52:18 am

Ok. Before you go ahead with anything, let me first verify that information. I know some people who know about this stuff. I'll get back to you ASAP.

EDIT: Yeah.. just so it's posted here, ALL physical attacks/skills/overdrives/etc. use the strenth ^ 2 formula for damage. So your damage would increase exponentially with more strength.

Ver Greeneyes

2008-10-02 03:00:51 pm

Quote from Essentia:

Nope, that wasn't known by me. I don't really know much about FFX's damage formulas, so any help there is appreciated.

Perhaps this would be useful to you then Smiley

GameFAQs has so much stuff about Final Fantasy X, it's mind-boggling.

Essentia

2008-10-02 03:30:55 pm

Everything's better with Magitek

Oh, wow. I usually look at the stuff on GameFAQs, but somehow I missed that particular guide. Thanks!

Edit: Hmm, according to that guide, it looks like physical attacks actually use strength^3, and magic uses magic^2.

Eternalspirit

2008-10-02 04:23:57 pm

Quote from Essentia:

Oh, wow. I usually look at the stuff on GameFAQs, but somehow I missed that particular guide. Thanks!

Edit: Hmm, according to that guide, it looks like physical attacks actually use strength^3, and magic uses magic^2.

Then it's an even better case for getting a lot of strength.

Essentia

Edit history:

Essentia: 2008-10-07 07:29:52 pm

2008-10-07 01:20:30 pm

Everything's better with Magitek

Well, I just finished Operation Mi'ihen on another test run, and already I've saved a couple minutes on the Chocobo Eater and Sinspawn Gui fights just by giving the magic and strength spheres to Yuna. The main place I think this will save time, though, is against Isaaru's aeons.

edit: I also found a couple improvements in Guadosalam. At the farplane, you don't have to talk to Lulu at all. Then afterwards, you can have a conversation with either Lulu or Rikku, and with Rikku you are given 3 options. I timed all the possibilities, and the 3rd option with Rikku is the fastest (6 seconds faster than the 1st option, 8 seconds faster than the 2nd, and 16 seconds faster than talking with Lulu). It's nice that you'll talk to Rikku pretty much by default in this speedrun (just have to avoid talking to Lulu first in Seymour's place).

Essentia

Edit history:

Essentia: 2008-10-08 03:56:20 pm

2008-10-08 12:56:48 pm

Everything's better with Magitek

Wow, I just saved a lot of time against Anima. I gave Yuna another magic sphere (gotten from Djose Temple's destruction treasure) and then gave her all the magic, strength, and HP nodes that were available to her. Shiva was able to do 9999 against Anima with her overdrive, and I killed him with 2 of them instead of 3, plus I avoided Anima's overdrive. Also, this means I don't have to save any lightning marbles to use against Anima, so I can use all of them against Crawler, which will save a little more time.

edit: I just timed it, and I save between 3-4 minutes on the Seymour battle, plus 40 seconds on Crawler. I also realized that I don't need to steal nearly as many things on the Thunder Plains--only 5 electro marbles, a petrify grenade, and a chocobo feather (no lunar or light curtains).

Gaverion

2008-10-08 08:13:12 pm

Might be a little late but only the magic stat effects Aeon Overdrive damage, for the mandatory aeons at least.

MeteorBreaker

2008-10-08 09:18:31 pm

i play games

All Aeon Overdrives except Oblivion and Yojimbo's do Special Magic damage. This takes the normal Physical formula and replaces Str with magic:

(Mag^3 / 32 + 30) * DamageConstant / 16

Oblivion and Yojimbo's ODs use Str in the same equation.

Essentia

2008-10-09 02:59:59 pm

Everything's better with Magitek

Well, I just saved around 8 minutes in the fights against Isaaru's aeons, which was more than I was expecting. Beforehand I raised Yuna's magic, strength, agility, and HP as much as possible. Then I used Shiva the entire time--she has the highest magic (45) and can do 9999 with her overdrive every time. Also, Spathi (Bahamut) used his overdrive only once instead of 4 times, which saved quite a bit of time.

Quote from Gaverion:

Might be a little late but only the magic stat effects Aeon Overdrive damage, for the mandatory aeons at least.

Yeah, I figured this out by doing some testing. It's still worth it to boost their strength, though.

Essentia

2008-10-10 02:11:30 am

Everything's better with Magitek

I just finished another (unoptimized) test run, and I got to the final save point at exactly 11 hours. Everything after that takes about 25 minutes, so already I've beaten 11:30, which was my goal. Once I optimize everything and put in all the improvements I've found, I might be able to get close to a final time of 11 hours, but I don't think I'll actually get below 11 hours (although I'd love to).

Lag.Com

2008-10-10 02:30:47 am

sda loyalist

Aha, I didn't know you'd taken this on. I might put up with the cutscenes one last time to verify/watch. Smiley

Maglok

2008-10-10 04:31:21 am

Dum die dum

Awesome!

So real speedrun now? Smiley

bmn

2008-10-10 06:34:14 am

Any thoughts on how much time you save versus NG yet?

Essentia

2008-10-10 10:57:34 am

Everything's better with Magitek

Quote from Lag.Com:

Aha, I didn't know you'd taken this on. I might put up with the cutscenes one last time to verify/watch. Smiley

Awesome.

Quote from Maglok:

Awesome!

So real speedrun now? Smiley

There are still a couple more things I want to test (mainly sphere grid stuff). I'm not sure if I'll do another entire playthrough, but I want this to be as optimized as possible when I record it. And about recording, I still need to get a DVD recorder, but hopefully that won't take too long.

Quote from bmn:

Any thoughts on how much time you save versus NG yet?

I think it's around 10 minutes that the Underdog's Secrets save, because it makes Evrae and Seymour Natus faster, plus you don't have to go to Remiem Temple to get Wings to Discovery.

Now something I've been wondering about: When an enemy drops a weapon or armor, it seems to me that that weapon/armor more often than not is for the person who actually killed the enemy (e.g. Tidus kills an enemy, and it drops a shield for him). Does anyone know if this is the case, or am I imagining things? I'm asking because I'd like the no encounters armor to be for Tidus, Wakka, or Rikku so I can use it in the underwater parts at Mt. Gagazet.

[quote="Lag.Com"]
Aha, I didn't know you'd taken this on. I might put up with the cutscenes [i]one last time[/i] to verify/watch. :)
[/quote]

Awesome. ;)

[quote="Maglok"]
Awesome! :) So real speedrun now? :)
[/quote]

There are still a couple more things I want to test (mainly sphere grid stuff).  I'm not sure if I'll do another entire playthrough, but I want this to be as optimized as possible when I record it.  And about recording, I still need to get a DVD recorder, but hopefully that won't take too long.

[quote="bmn"]
Any thoughts on how much time you save versus NG yet?
[/quote]

I think it's around 10 minutes that the Underdog's Secrets save, because it makes Evrae and Seymour Natus faster, plus you don't have to go to Remiem Temple to get Wings to Discovery.

Now something I've been wondering about: When an enemy drops a weapon or armor, it seems to me that that weapon/armor more often than not is for the person who actually killed the enemy (e.g. Tidus kills an enemy, and it drops a shield for him).  Does anyone know if this is the case, or am I imagining things?  I'm asking because I'd like the no encounters armor to be for Tidus, Wakka, or Rikku so I can use it in the underwater parts at Mt. Gagazet.

bmn

2008-10-10 11:30:14 am

I think that might be the case, though I'm not certain. I noticed when farming for armour against Yojimbo on International that the drops would usually be for someone in the active party, so I'd guess that is the case.

10 minutes... isn't a lot in an 11-hour run, cutscenes or not >_> Considering that we were generally expecting NG+ to save quite a bit more time than that, what are the chances of a straight NG run instead, what with it being the more liked category in general?

Gaverion

Edit history:

Gaverion: 2008-10-10 12:53:32 pm

2008-10-10 12:41:44 pm

The drop rate for equipment goes: 40% chance it is for character who killed the enemy, 10% chance for everyone else, or so I have been told; not sure exactly how it works when you are missing party members however (though it should be similar).

BTW I'm planning on running this too though mine probably won't be started anytime soon as in the last several months I haven't gotten my test run out of Besaid. Undecided

Deedlit

2008-10-10 11:08:34 pm

I love YaBB 1G - SP1!

Good luck on your final run! Smiley

I also would prefer to see a New Game run rather than New Game+; seeing as there isn't much time difference between the two, might as well go for the clean run. Also, we could see strategy for Evrae and Natus.

Essentia

2008-10-11 11:23:20 pm

Everything's better with Magitek

Well, all the planning and practicing I've been doing is for a NG+ run; I'm a lot more prepared to do that instead of a NG run. Also, a NG+ run will be faster, and I'd like to get the run as fast as I can. If people want to see the Evrae and Natus strategies for a NG run, they can always watch KADFC's run--his run was really well done, and I'm sure he put a lot of work into it. I really don't want to discourage people from watching his run.

Deedlit

2008-10-17 01:47:40 am

I love YaBB 1G - SP1!

Well, I took a look at KADFC's run. Are Slice and Dice and Chocobo Wing necessary for beating BFA? (obviously he thought so, but maybe you came up with a new strategy.) I guess chocobo wing can be manipulated off of a chocobo, but eliminating Slice and Dice would save some hassle.

Some random observations:

I think Seymour Flux can be killed just with Lulu's Fury, no need for elemental gem + Fury.

It's probably faster to mash triangle against Yu Yevon rather than subbing in Rikku and throwing a chocobo feather.

Essentia

2008-10-17 10:51:11 am

Everything's better with Magitek

Quote from Deedlit:

Well, I took a look at KADFC's run. Are Slice and Dice and Chocobo Wing necessary for beating BFA? (obviously he thought so, but maybe you came up with a new strategy.) I guess chocobo wing can be manipulated off of a chocobo, but eliminating Slice and Dice would save some hassle.

I've tried other strategies, but I haven't found anything else that works. The problem is, you can't let BFA get a turn against your party, or he'll wipe them out. For his first form, you need 7 hits to take him out; Slice & Dice does 6 hits, whereas gems only do 5. Without Slice & Dice, you'd have to take an extra turn, which there just doesn't seem to be time for. Chocobo Wing seems to be necessary for the same reason--you just barely have enough time to kill BFA before he kills you--although it would be really nice to eliminate the need for it since it's so annoying to get. Oh, and I just thought of one more thing: Sometimes one or both of the Yu Pagodas start moving just before Lulu uses Fury. It seems to be random, because I'll do the exact same thing in the battle, and sometimes they start moving and sometimes they don't.

For those who haven't watched KADFC's run (or don't remember it), here's how the BFA fight goes (Tidus, Auron, and Yuna all have First Strike):

-switch Yuna for Rikku, have her use a Chocobo Wing (Tidus gets the first turn on KADFC's, but Yuna gets the first turn on mine because I raised her agility to help with the aeon battles)
-Tidus talks
-switch Auron for Lulu, have her change weapon
-Rikku mixes Trio
-switch Lulu for Yuna, have her change weapon
-Jecht does nothing
-Tidus uses Slice & Dice (6 hits)
-Both Yu Pagodas heal Jecht for a total of 3000
-Yuna grand summons Valefor, Valefor uses Energy Blast overdrive, which stops both Yu Pagodas
-Jecht changes to second form and kills Valefor
-Tidus talks (if I didn't raise Tidus's agility, Jecht gets a turn here, which is bad)
-Jecht does nothing (on mine, Jecht gets a turn here, but he doesn't on KADFC's; I'm not sure why)
-Rikku uses an elemental gem (fire gem for me)
-hope that neither of the Yu Pagodas start moving here (which happens sometimes)
-Rikku gets another turn, switch her for Lulu and use Fire Fury--must get 8 hits to end the battle

Quote:

I think Seymour Flux can be killed just with Lulu's Fury, no need for elemental gem + Fury.

I thought that too, until I actually tried it. Flux has 70,000 hp, so you only need to hit him 8 times, which is easy to get with Fury. However, that's assuming that every hit actually hits Seymour, and not Mortiorchis. Unfortunately, both Fury and gems randomly hit either one, so sometimes you don't kill him even with using a gem + Fury.

Quote:

It's probably faster to mash triangle against Yu Yevon rather than subbing in Rikku and throwing a chocobo feather.

My Yu Yevon fight is a little bit different. I use Doom with Kimahri instead of a Candle of Life. This is because I have No Encounters through Zanarkand, so I don't steal a Candle of Life. Rikku and Tidus are already in the party when the fight starts, so I switch Rikku for Kimahri and have him use Doom, then Tidus gets the next turn and he casts Haste. I still think it's necessary to use Haste on him, because otherweise the Yu Pagodas get more turns.

Edit: BTW, I'm now in the middle of a third test run. I'm at the Cavern of the Stolen Fayth, trying to get No Encounters (which I might just skip this time if it becomes too annoying to get), and last time I checked (I think it was just before the Calm Lands) I was about 18 minutes ahead of KADFC's run. The actual run should be better, because again I didn't bother to optimize everything, plus I tried a couple things that I thought would save time but ended up not being better.

[quote="Deedlit"]
Well, I took a look at KADFC's run.  Are Slice and Dice and Chocobo Wing necessary for beating BFA? (obviously he thought so, but maybe you came up with a new strategy.)  I guess chocobo wing can be manipulated off of a chocobo, but eliminating Slice and Dice would save some hassle.[/quote]

I've tried other strategies, but I haven't found anything else that works.  The problem is, you can't let BFA get a turn against your party, or he'll wipe them out.  For his first form, you need 7 hits to take him out; Slice & Dice does 6 hits, whereas gems only do 5.  Without Slice & Dice, you'd have to take an extra turn, which there just doesn't seem to be time for.  Chocobo Wing seems to be necessary for the same reason--you just barely have enough time to kill BFA before he kills you--although it would be really nice to eliminate the need for it since it's so annoying to get.  Oh, and I just thought of one more thing: Sometimes one or both of the Yu Pagodas start moving just before Lulu uses Fury.  It seems to be random, because I'll do the exact same thing in the battle, and sometimes they start moving and sometimes they don't.

For those who haven't watched KADFC's run (or don't remember it), here's how the BFA fight goes (Tidus, Auron, and Yuna all have First Strike):

-switch Yuna for Rikku, have her use a Chocobo Wing (Tidus gets the first turn on KADFC's, but Yuna gets the first turn on mine because I raised her agility to help with the aeon battles)
-Tidus talks
-switch Auron for Lulu, have her change weapon
-Rikku mixes Trio
-switch Lulu for Yuna, have her change weapon
-Jecht does nothing
-Tidus uses Slice & Dice (6 hits)
-Both Yu Pagodas heal Jecht for a total of 3000
-Yuna grand summons Valefor, Valefor uses Energy Blast overdrive, which stops both Yu Pagodas
-Jecht changes to second form and kills Valefor
-Tidus talks (if I didn't raise Tidus's agility, Jecht gets a turn here, which is bad)
-Jecht does nothing (on mine, Jecht gets a turn here, but he doesn't on KADFC's; I'm not sure why)
-Rikku uses an elemental gem (fire gem for me)
-[i]hope that neither of the Yu Pagodas start moving here (which happens sometimes)[/i]
-Rikku gets another turn, switch her for Lulu and use Fire Fury--must get 8 hits to end the battle

[quote]I think Seymour Flux can be killed just with Lulu's Fury, no need for elemental gem + Fury.[/quote]

I thought that too, until I actually tried it.  Flux has 70,000 hp, so you only need to hit him 8 times, which is easy to get with Fury.  However, that's assuming that every hit actually hits Seymour, and not Mortiorchis.  Unfortunately, both Fury and gems randomly hit either one, so sometimes you don't kill him even with using a gem + Fury.

[quote]It's probably faster to mash triangle against Yu Yevon rather than subbing in Rikku and throwing a chocobo feather.
[/quote]

My Yu Yevon fight is a little bit different.  I use Doom with Kimahri instead of a Candle of Life.  This is because I have No Encounters through Zanarkand, so I don't steal a Candle of Life.  Rikku and Tidus are already in the party when the fight starts, so I switch Rikku for Kimahri and have him use Doom, then Tidus gets the next turn and he casts Haste.  I still think it's necessary to use Haste on him, because otherweise the Yu Pagodas get more turns.

Edit: BTW, I'm now in the middle of a third test run.  I'm at the Cavern of the Stolen Fayth, trying to get No Encounters (which I might just skip this time if it becomes too annoying to get), and last time I checked (I think it was just before the Calm Lands) I was about 18 minutes ahead of KADFC's run.  The actual run should be better, because again I didn't bother to optimize everything, plus I tried a couple things that I thought would save time but ended up not being better.

Essentia

2008-10-23 12:59:47 pm

Everything's better with Magitek

I was looking at the report for the guy who did the FFX run on Ultima Garden (link is on page 15 of this thread). Well, it's not a report so much as a list of times at save points. Anyway, on there it says he used a turbo controller (which is banned on SDA) and fast disc speed (which is not banned). Does fast disc speed actually have an effect on PS2 games? I thought it only worked for PS1 games. I'm wondering because his time at the final save is more than an hour faster than mine. Of course, my run wasn't completely optimized, and the turbo controller probably also makes up some of the difference, but I don't think that accounts for an entire hour's worth. I'm thinking of going through the game again and comparing my times with his to see where I lose time.

Carcinogen

2008-10-23 01:05:30 pm

I don't understand where a turbo controller would come in handy in FFX.

hillza

2008-10-23 01:22:41 pm

Quote from Carcinogen:

I don't understand where a turbo controller would come in handy in FFX.

Me either i dont remember any time you neeed to be tapping rapidly?

Sum2k3

2008-10-23 01:24:57 pm

Maybe it's helpful at skipping text? (but it shouldn't...)

Essentia

2008-10-23 01:28:33 pm

Everything's better with Magitek

The turbo controller would help skip text (when it can be skipped) and input commands during battle as fast as possible (when using cursor on memory). So it would help a little, but not a whole lot.