Final Fantasy X

2008-10-26 02:58:00 am

I love YaBB 1G - SP1!

Quote from Essentia:

I'm thinking of going through the game again and comparing my times with his to see where I lose time.

It's not a bad idea. However, it might prove frustrating if you find a segment where you lose a lot of time, but you can't figure out what the runner did to go faster.

Whatever you decide, you have my support! Grin

Essentia

2008-11-02 01:01:18 am

Everything's better with Magitek

I've just beaten Sinspawn Gui on yet another test run, and believe it or not, I still found some ways to improve that battle by quite a bit. Right now I'm about 9 minutes ahead of KADFC, but about 6 minutes behind Ultima Garden. In comparing my times with the Ultima Garden run so far, it seems like I've just been losing a minute here and there (I've never been slower than by 2 minutes on any one segment), probably mainly because of unoptimization. (Also, my times have only been accurate to minutes, not seconds, which could account for some differences.) I'm not so worried about that; I'm looking to see if there are any huge differences in segment times, which I haven't found so far.

Tigger77

2008-11-02 05:47:31 am

I survived MIKE-Fest 1

It's great to see this run get's a form.

Because the timenig of the save's are the saves time rounded or only show's you the min and save the secend invisible?

That coud be important and maby explain the time diffrentc.

keep at it

mfg Tigger77

Essentia

2008-11-02 11:34:38 pm

Everything's better with Magitek

The game doesn't show seconds on the timer, but I've always assumed that it saves the seconds. (At least, some of the other FF's save the seconds--I'll check to make sure on this.) However, the times listed for the Ultima Garden run have seconds included. So either the Japanese version shows the seconds on the timer, or he timed it using real time.

Anyway, tomorrow I'm going to test some new strats I thought of for Spherimorph, Crawler, and Wendigo. I'll let you know how they turn out. Smiley

Carcinogen

2008-11-03 08:35:07 am

Probably did what we do and just timed it manually from the final save.

Essentia

Edit history:

Essentia: 2008-11-03 06:35:54 pm

2008-11-03 05:39:52 pm

Everything's better with Magitek

The Ultima Garden guy listed his time for every time he saved, and they all have seconds. And actually, it doesn't seem like he actually beat the final boss--the last time that's listed is his time at the final save.

Anyway, my new strategies resulted in almost a minute saved on Spherimorph and about 30 seconds saved on Crawler. This also saves some more time in the Thunder Plains and Macalania Woods since I drastically reduced the number of items I need to steal in those places (only a Petrify Grenade in the Thunder Plains and nothing in Macalania now). I'm just about to test my new strategy for Wendigo.

Edit: My strategy for Wendigo was about 8 seconds faster, but it requires stealing an extra Petrify Grenade (which is a rare steal). I don't think it's really worth it; I'll probably go with my old strategy.

Essentia

2008-11-05 11:45:40 pm

Everything's better with Magitek

It's kind of interesting--there have been a few segments where I was faster than the Ultima Garden run. It seems that my Spherimorph and Seymour & Anima battles were a bit faster. But the weird one is running from Macalania Temple (after killing Seymour); mine was 2 or 3 minutes faster (not sure because the seconds aren't listed on my times), and I'm really not sure why that would be. It's not like there's a lot to do in that segment. All I do is fill Yuna's and Rikku's overdrives, which doesn't take very long, and run from every battle.

Gaverion

2008-11-06 12:28:21 am

I'm interested in your Spherimorph strat, I can't for the life of me think of a better way than the one in KADFC's run. (my test run is just past Lady Y, yay free time :P) Also at what point do you learn Slice and Dice (if at all)? I got it on the ghost in sunken cave (though I am not using the primers which may change some things).

Essentia

2008-11-06 09:04:14 am

Everything's better with Magitek

I learn Slice & Dice just before fighting Overdrive Sin. Here are the places where I use Spiral Cut (subject to change if something works out better):
1. Klikk
2. Sinspawn Euchilles
3. random encounter on Mi'ihen Highroad
4. Extractor
5. random encounter on Bikanel Island
6. random encounter in Calm Lands
7. Defender X
8. Ghost in Sunken Cave
9. Sin's Right Fin
10. Defender Z in Zanarkand (while filling up Rikku's overdrive for Overdrive Sin)

As for my Spherimorph strategy...well, I kind of wanted to keep it a surprise, because I think it's cool. Wink

I actually take it out in one turn, although I have Tidus and Kimahri defend first since they need the AP. However, if people say they really want to know my strategy (and can't guess what it is), then I'll post it.

Sum2k3

2008-11-06 12:25:00 pm

I can wait for your full speedrun. Smiley

I really want to see this speedrun of you.

Essentia

2008-11-10 04:16:10 pm

Everything's better with Magitek

I just finished yet another test run, and this time my final save was at 10:46, so my final time was around 11:12. And this was without getting No Encounters. Smiley

I think I have pretty much everything worked out for this run now.

Gaverion

2008-11-10 07:28:50 pm

When you get no encounters are you allowing any tolerance for randoms? If you are try traveling to the first intersection and running around in the small green area (where the paths meet) I have experienced a much higher encounter rate for ghosts there. Can't wait to see the whole run! I also think I figured out what you did for Spherimorph (only one way to OHKO it), but it means a new Wendy strategy for me.

Essentia

2008-11-10 08:51:07 pm

Everything's better with Magitek

For No Encounters, I'm going to try resetting until I get a Ghost in the first battle. It might get pretty annoying, but to help with that I enter the cave and watch the cutscene, then exit and save before trying to run into the Ghost so I don't have to watch that cutscene over and over.

mithical87

2008-11-11 07:38:08 am

Freelance slacker

Quote from Gaverion:

When you get no encounters are you allowing any tolerance for randoms? If you are try traveling to the first intersection and running around in the small green area (where the paths meet) I have experienced a much higher encounter rate for ghosts there. Can't wait to see the whole run! I also think I figured out what you did for Spherimorph (only one way to OHKO it), but it means a new Wendy strategy for me.

Yeah this seems to be the same area I mentioned a page or two back. Good to know I wasn't imagining things. Really looking forward to your run, especially now that you've found so many improvements.

Alexandre

2008-11-12 03:32:54 pm

Heya, Essentia!

Looks like your run's goin' along great! Too bad you didn't have to steal my SNES for this one. =P

I would have beat this game before you, but you wouldn't let me get ahead of you.

Anyway, good luck! I'll keep my eye on you.

~Your brother, Brian

Reagle

2008-11-12 05:19:13 pm

Quote from Essentia:

I think I have pretty much everything worked out for this run now.

Yessssss, the queen of FF Speedrunning is going to finish another one! Can't wait Cheesy

Essentia

Edit history:

Essentia: 2008-11-12 05:53:31 pm

2008-11-12 05:36:38 pm

Everything's better with Magitek

Quote from Alexandre:

Heya, Essentia!

Looks like your run's goin' along great! Too bad you didn't have to steal my SNES for this one. =P

I would have beat this game before you, but you wouldn't let me get ahead of you.

Anyway, good luck! I'll keep my eye on you.

~Your brother, Brian

Well, it's about time you posted on SDA, even if it is just as a guest! And at least I thanked you for "letting" me use your SNES for my run. Wink

Anyway, I just came up with a new strategy for Seymour Natus that is about 30 seconds faster than my previous strategy that was taken from KADFC's speedrun FAQ. The previous strategy was to mix 2 underdog's secrets (Sunburst, which always does 19998 damage) then use a lightning marble to get him to go into his last phase; then Seymour casts Flare on Rikku to give her another overdrive, then have her mix 2 underdog's secrets again to kill him. My new strategy involves mixing Quartet and using a water gem (stolen from Evrae) and a whole lot more luck. It's faster though, so I'll be using it. I just have to keep reminding myself that overall this run requires a lot less luck than my FFIX run did. Wink

[quote="Alexandre"]
Heya, Essentia!

Looks like your run's goin' along great!  Too bad you didn't have to steal my SNES for this one.  =P

I would have beat this game before you, but you wouldn't let me get ahead of you.

Anyway, good luck!  I'll keep my eye on you.

~Your brother, Brian
[/quote]
Well, it's about time you posted on SDA, even if it is just as a guest!  And at least I thanked you for "letting" me use your SNES for my run. ;)

Anyway, I just came up with a new strategy for Seymour Natus that is about 30 seconds faster than my previous strategy that was taken from KADFC's speedrun FAQ.  The previous strategy was to mix 2 underdog's secrets (Sunburst, which always does 19998 damage) then use a lightning marble to get him to go into his last phase; then Seymour casts Flare on Rikku to give her another overdrive, then have her mix 2 underdog's secrets again to kill him.  My new strategy involves mixing Quartet and using a water gem (stolen from Evrae) and a whole lot more luck.  It's faster though, so I'll be using it.  I just have to keep reminding myself that overall this run requires a lot less luck than my FFIX run did. ;)

mikwuyma

2008-11-12 09:47:37 pm

My feelings on The Demon Rush

Tidus whines and cries too much. This is what a speedrun would look like

:(:(:'(:(:) Huh?

Gaverion

2008-11-13 02:12:51 am

Do you take advantage of Self-destruct heavily in your run? It is quite useful I found though I'm not sure how much HP your Kimahri has at that point. If Tidus's strength is as high as it was in my test run (finally finished that btw) he can deal ~5k with a spiral cut after talk so if that + Self-destruct could kill Natus, might need one or the other to go critical though.

Probably a little slower than quartet+gem but potentially less random and saves a gem that you don't have to steal later.

Speaking of which, I am curious where you get your gems, by my calculations you should need 15+ any used pre Calmlands, where are you planning on getting them? (and is this the right #)

Essentia

2008-11-13 11:57:07 am

Everything's better with Magitek

I haven't used self-destruct at all in my run. I don't know how useful it would be, since from Crawler at Macalania and on, my Kimahri has around 1200 HP, although I believe I have enough sphere levels to give him more. I'm trying to think in which battles it might help--possibly Chocobo Eater (there are bombs on the Mi'ihen Highroad, aren't there?) and Sinspawn Gui, but Kimahri might not have enough HP then for it to really make a difference. It might help with Crawler, and maybe the first Seymour. After that I have the underdog's secrets, which will do more damage. Seymour Natus has 36,000 HP, so unless self-destruct can do more than 9999 damage, I don't think it would help there; even if it can do more than 9999, I think it would take too long in the sphere grid to give Kimahri that much HP. Also, my Tidus only does about 1900 with spiral cut after talk; how are you getting so much strength with him? He ends up with only 19 strength on mine.

As for gems, I use 21 total:
1 Evrae
1 Seymour Natus
2 Defender X
1 Seymour Flux
1 Sanctuary Keeper
1 Spectral Keeper
4 Yunalesca
1 Sin's Left Fin
1 Sin's Right Fin
2 Sinspawn Genais and Core
3 Overdrive Sin
2 Seymour Omnis
1 BFA

I steal water gems for Evrae and Natus from Evrae himself (you can steal 2 in one turn, but it's rare). Before Yunalesca I need 9 gems, but I actually get 11 total because I'll need 2 water gems for Omnis (he absorbs fire), and Gagazet Cave is the best place to get water gems. So I steal 3-5 fire gems on the Calm Lands (the actual amount depends on how quickly I fill up needed overdrives at that part). Then I steal 2-4 fire gems on Gagazet in the same battle that I bribe a Grenade for shining gems. Then Rikku steals 2-4 water gems (however many I still need) in an underwater battle in Gagazet Cave (I also fill up her overdrive in this battle). Then I get the remaining 8 gems by bribing a Flame Flan on the Calm Lands; I do this just before fighting Sin's fins, and I also fill up Rikku's and Lulu's overdrives in that battle.

I haven't used self-destruct at all in my run.  I don't know how useful it would be, since from Crawler at Macalania and on, my Kimahri has around 1200 HP, although I believe I have enough sphere levels to give him more.  I'm trying to think in which battles it might help--possibly Chocobo Eater (there are bombs on the Mi'ihen Highroad, aren't there?) and Sinspawn Gui, but Kimahri might not have enough HP then for it to really make a difference.  It might help with Crawler, and maybe the first Seymour.  After that I have the underdog's secrets, which will do more damage.  Seymour Natus has 36,000 HP, so unless self-destruct can do more than 9999 damage, I don't think it would help there; even if it can do more than 9999, I think it would take too long in the sphere grid to give Kimahri that much HP.  Also, my Tidus only does about 1900 with spiral cut after talk; how are you getting so much strength with him?  He ends up with only 19 strength on mine.

As for gems, I use 21 total:
1 Evrae
1 Seymour Natus
2 Defender X
1 Seymour Flux
1 Sanctuary Keeper
1 Spectral Keeper
4 Yunalesca
1 Sin's Left Fin
1 Sin's Right Fin
2 Sinspawn Genais and Core
3 Overdrive Sin
2 Seymour Omnis
1 BFA

I steal water gems for Evrae and Natus from Evrae himself (you can steal 2 in one turn, but it's rare).  Before Yunalesca I need 9 gems, but I actually get 11 total because I'll need 2 water gems for Omnis (he absorbs fire), and Gagazet Cave is the best place to get water gems.  So I steal 3-5 fire gems on the Calm Lands (the actual amount depends on how quickly I fill up needed overdrives at that part).  Then I steal 2-4 fire gems on Gagazet in the same battle that I bribe a Grenade for shining gems.  Then Rikku steals 2-4 water gems (however many I still need) in an underwater battle in Gagazet Cave (I also fill up her overdrive in this battle).  Then I get the remaining 8 gems by bribing a Flame Flan on the Calm Lands; I do this just before fighting Sin's fins, and I also fill up Rikku's and Lulu's overdrives in that battle.

Gaverion

2008-11-13 04:09:49 pm

Bribing Flame Flan, Brilliant!

Mi'ihen Highroad does have bombs, It is a HUGE help against Gui, Crawler too.
I think I am going to hope for a critical self-destruct against Gui as it would be a huge cut in time.

Gui strategy would be:
Summon Ifrit, OD
Summon Valefor, OD (head dies, damage variance can screw this up)
(Valefor OD gets charged)
Valefor OD
Valefor dies
Kimarhi Critical self-destruct
Gui Dies
This also saves 2 mana spheres I wasted on Lulu

My crawler strategy was:
Tidus change weapons, Inflict slow
Crawler attacks, charging Rikku's OD (randomly doest hit her enough/kills her)
Kimarhi uses Lightning Marble killing negator (damage variance can screw this up)
Rikku mixs Lightning Marble+Level 2 Key sphere
Kimarhi self-destruct
crawler dies

Rikku -> Kimarhi order is important because it charges her OD

I'll check Tidus's end strength later.

Essentia

2008-11-13 04:41:46 pm

Everything's better with Magitek

Hmm, I might have to do another test run now to try out self-destruct. Just wondering, how much HP does your Kimahri have against Gui and Crawler?

Here were my strategies without self-destruct:

Gui (note: it seems that I didn't write down my latest strategy, so some of this is from memory and may not be correct)
Tidus hastes Lulu (might not need to do this)
Auron power breaks body
Lulu and Kimahri damage head until it's around 3000(?) HP
Summon Valefor, OD (kills head)
Valefor's OD charges
Valefor OD
Valefor dies
Summon Ifrit, 3 ODs kills it

Crawler
start with Tidus, Lulu, Kimahri
switch Tidus for Rikku, use a lightning marble on Crawler
Crawler attacks, hopefully not killing Rikku
Rikku uses another lightning marble on Crawler
Kimahri uses a lightning marble on Negator, killing it (hopefully)
Rikku uses lightning marble on Crawler, provoking a counterattack which kills her and fills her overdrive
Kimahri or Lulu revives Rikku
Rikku mixes lightning marble and level 2 key sphere to kill it

For Crawler, how are you able to get Rikku's overdrive just from its attack? On my run, her overdrive meter isn't charged at all at the beginning of the Crawler fight because I just used it against Spherimorph.

Hmm, I might have to do another test run now to try out self-destruct.  Just wondering, how much HP does your Kimahri have against Gui and Crawler?

Here were my strategies without self-destruct:

[b]Gui[/b] (note: it seems that I didn't write down my latest strategy, so some of this is from memory and may not be correct)
Tidus hastes Lulu (might not need to do this)
Auron power breaks body
Lulu and Kimahri damage head until it's around 3000(?) HP
Summon Valefor, OD (kills head)
Valefor's OD charges
Valefor OD
Valefor dies
Summon Ifrit, 3 ODs kills it

[b]Crawler[/b]
start with Tidus, Lulu, Kimahri
switch Tidus for Rikku, use a lightning marble on Crawler
Crawler attacks, hopefully not killing Rikku
Rikku uses another lightning marble on Crawler
Kimahri uses a lightning marble on Negator, killing it (hopefully)
Rikku uses lightning marble on Crawler, provoking a counterattack which kills her and fills her overdrive
Kimahri or Lulu revives Rikku
Rikku mixes lightning marble and level 2 key sphere to kill it

For Crawler, how are you able to get Rikku's overdrive just from its attack?  On my run, her overdrive meter isn't charged at all at the beginning of the Crawler fight because I just used it against Spherimorph.

Gaverion

2008-11-13 07:08:36 pm

I am at my PS2 now so:

My Tidus's end strength was 30 I activated:
Strength+1 next to flee
Strength sphere (from BB in Luca) in first empty node after flee
Strength+1 before haste
then I go back to Kimahri's grid
Strength+2 at the first intersection you come to
then I go up
Strength+3 on the path to Yuna's grid
Strength+2 going back down
Strength+1 right at the branch before Rikku's grid

Kimahri Had base HP for Gui, For Crawler he had 1244, activating 2 going around his grid to the right and one on the way to steal and use.

I might be slightly off on the crawler strategy, I might have Killed negator then attacked, revived and then mix+self-destruct. The other method I used was I get in 1 random encounter on the way to Crawler and partially charged her OD there, then healed with a potion/high potion.

Essentia

2008-11-13 07:20:18 pm

Everything's better with Magitek

Wow, you gave Tidus a lot more strength than I did. I wonder if it's worth it? I only really see it being helpful against Extractor (if you have enough sphere levels by then); were there other places that you found that strength to be helpful?

Kimahri had the same HP on my run, so self-destruct just might be better. I'll have to test it.

Also, I've been meaning to ask you, what was your final time on your test run?

Gaverion

2008-11-13 09:26:17 pm

Well I'm not using the primers so it is useful for Evrae (Spiral cutx2) and Natus. Additionally I use Spiral Cut on Seymour (first form) to force him to summon Anima without killing the guardians. Time at my final save was 12:15ish but it wasn't optimized at all. I mostly single segmented it an made some big mistakes (like 10 minute ones >_>)