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djm, I haven't watched the run yet, but here are a few ideas based on your description of the route:

- You shouldn't need to get level 5 before entering Marsh Cave with FFRR party.  You should be able to earn it en route to the Wizards.

- Leveling both red mages to 16 would be overkill even for a single segment run, and so I'd assume even moreso in a RTA where you can take some more risks.  In fact, there was some discussion a while back where it was detailed how quite a bit can be skipped in the late game with FFRR party.  Some ideas were killing off 1 red mage (and maybe even a fighter) during agama grinding, etc.  You don't need more than 2 warp charges and only 1 is truly necessary.  A lot of the equipment can optionally be skipped as well. 

- ProRings are nice but IIRC you might have to make some sacrifices with Agama grinding, which doesn't give nearly as much gold as Eyes.  So you could make it work with opal bracelet on a knight and zeus on a red wizard for example (I think I had even used a silver gauntlet at one point.)  Of course ProRings are best if you can raise the money.

I will watch the video when I get a chance to and hopefully have more ideas. 
Quote from gyre:
I only caught the end of the run live but I've started going back to watch pieces as I have time.  I really liked a lot of the route.  My NES has the same initial encounter as yours but unfortunately yet another different initial step count so it's going to be hard to steal your strats.

Since you mentioned the ProRings one idea was to grab the one on 1F Floating Castle.  You have to waste steps to avoid WarMECH anyways so getting it may cost no or little time.  That could either make ToF easier or save having to loot the Cardia chests.  I'd get that pickup before worrying about Bane strats.  You can also get a Heal Helmet in the same room there rather than Mirage Tower if you want to move encounters around.


That's a good point.  Honestly, after I run the game a lot with route tunnel vision I tend to forget what is available in chests.  I checked the step count on a map and it's definitely too many steps now but that's not anything that changing around tent hard reset locations wouldn't fix if I found that ProRing necessary.  I was thinking of maybe putting off ProRing purchase until after Kraken cause I could probably raise enough funds for 4 ProRings that way and not have to stop by Cardia Island money pit.  It would only cost an extra trip to Gaia.

Quote from Tuff_fish:
djm, I haven't watched the run yet, but here are a few ideas based on your description of the route:

- You shouldn't need to get level 5 before entering Marsh Cave with FFRR party.  You should be able to earn it en route to the Wizards.

- Leveling both red mages to 16 would be overkill even for a single segment run, and so I'd assume even moreso in a RTA where you can take some more risks.  In fact, there was some discussion a while back where it was detailed how quite a bit can be skipped in the late game with FFRR party.  Some ideas were killing off 1 red mage (and maybe even a fighter) during agama grinding, etc.  You don't need more than 2 warp charges and only 1 is truly necessary.  A lot of the equipment can optionally be skipped as well. 

- ProRings are nice but IIRC you might have to make some sacrifices with Agama grinding, which doesn't give nearly as much gold as Eyes.  So you could make it work with opal bracelet on a knight and zeus on a red wizard for example (I think I had even used a silver gauntlet at one point.)  Of course ProRings are best if you can raise the money.

I will watch the video when I get a chance to and hopefully have more ideas. 


I typically hit lvl5 just before I get to Marsh Cave on Ogres so I can skip battles inside.  If I cut my grinding down slightly I could battle a Muck group and/or a Gargoyle group inside to get lvl5 but that's about it before Wizards.

I agree that grinding to lvl16 is not necessary, that's the first thing I'll be cutting out.  Where was the discussion on killing off some party members in a FFRR party?  Is it in this thread or another?  I'd like to look over all that to see the possibilities.  I really think I can get sub 3:20 with an optimal grinding strategy (and maybe that'll include ZombieDs and Eyes instead of Agamas).

Thanks for looking this over guys.  I'm excited to see how low this time can get.
Check out the route I posted several weeks back.  Apologies for the length of the post and crypticness of it all (I can clear anything up if you need help), but in it I intentionally faught the 20th battle (mucks) in the Marsh cave because they are such good XP.  It is a pretty safe fight with a properly armored FFRR.  You can use 1-2 Lit on that fight as well, having enough to spare for Wizards.  I might re-write that whole thing or make a video or something because it looks like gibberish.. my bad!

Also I'm kind of rusty in this game, but in my last post I meant to recommend opal GAUNTLET and not opal bracelet to one of the knights(although the bracelet is also a reasonable idea.)  An opal gauntlet is in the room next to the slab.  I always thought a second trip to Gaia was unnecessary but it's an idea.  ProRing - Opal Gauntlet - ProRing - (equipped) Zeus Gauntlet works well enough.  Again just going by memory. 

I *think* this is where some of the discussion about shortcuts with FFRR starts: https://forum.speeddemosarchive.com/post/final_fantasy_1__segmented_postponed129.html

Other ideas were skipping Aegis shield and Heal Helm but you have to tweak some strategies to compensate for that (especially through Tiamat2.) 
CONGRATULATIONS to djm858 for breaking the Final Fantasy 1 RTA World Record with a time of 3:29:47!  This breaks the existing WR by 2 minutes and 18 seconds!

I know of several improvements that can be made in this category, so there's a good chance the time will be lowered even more in the next few weeks.
So, if anyone knows, according to DJM's F/F/R/R route, what causes a reset in the early game? Like, how many dudes can you lose to either Astos or Wizards before you just reset?
I don't have hard guidelines on that but I can tell you my thought process.  The main thing I worry about is my Red Mage experience at this point.  I really like both being level 6 for Earth Cave first pass and level 7 for the second pass to have 1 then 2 FIR2 charges each.  Fighter level is a little less important so a fighter or two dying during the Wizards/Astos fights wouldn't make me reset right away.  If one red mage dies during the Wizard fight you can either take 1.5-2 minutes to revive in Elfland before Astos or you can risk fighting Astos with one red which ends in death the majority of attempts without great crit luck from fighters.  If you end the Astos fight with one red mage in the dirt you'll be going through Earth Cave with fewer FIR2 charges which is still possible, just a lot more risky.  Losing both reds in either fight is pretty much an insta-reset for me, not really worth your time to play it out.

TLDR:
Fighter deaths to Wizards or Astos is fair enough.
One red mage death to Wizards or Astos is not a reset but there's a better chance it will be a reset later in the run, or a significant time loss.
Two red mage deaths is reset.

Hope that helps!
Edit history:
WarMech: 2014-03-30 02:02:38 pm
WarMech: 2014-03-30 02:01:59 pm
WarMech: 2014-03-30 02:01:22 pm
<---- Here's a name you haven't seen in a while!  Cheesy

Inspired by djm858's RTA (big congrats... it's amazing) as well as the the excellent Dragon Warrior run that was posted recently here at SDA, I'm returning from my ~2 year hiatus of speed running to put this thing to rest once and for all.  The even better news is that neither my DVD recorder nor - more shockingly - my FF1 cartridge got wiped!  My party is still sitting outside the Ice Cave looking as ready as ever for this brutal segment.

I do have a spare cartridge of the game, so I'm thinking about playing through the game once or twice to brush of the dust.  With any luck, I should be able to start recording again by the end of April.  This thread continues to be full of awesome tricks and tips for all categories of FF1, so I'm considering renaming it.

In any case, I apologize for what has now turned into a 7 year project, but I'm happy to be back and hope to add to the great collection of runs very shortly.  You all deserve it for all the help and support you've given me over the years!
Woo hoo!  After three years of trenching through that Ice Cave, I recorded a segment today that I am nothing short of *thrilled* with.  With the exception of a menu hiccup and one very minor bit of bad luck, my roughly 1000+ resets have paid off, and we're back in business.  Two of the three most difficult segments behind me (the third being TofR of course), so I really feel like I'm on the homestretch.  The run will not disappoint!
Edit history:
Tuff_fish: 2014-06-08 08:10:20 am
Wow, congrats!  That is some dedication there.  I didn't realize you were still doing this run.  Did you post a summary of your route somewhere in this thread?  I would be interested in taking a look at it and also will be looking forward to the finished product. 
The best and the worst thing imaginable happened today - I beat Chaos and successfully completed my speedrun.

Why the best?

7 and a half years of work on this run have come to fruition.  I'm incredibly happy and even more grateful for all the support I've gotten over the years from the contributors to this thread.  I won't reveal the final time, but suffice it to say that I'm very very proud.

The amount of luck in the final segment is truly one-of-a-kind.  After nearly 100 hours of planning and recording since completing the previous segment, I finally managed to pull together some feats that I never thought could come together in one segment.

- Lich is killed before using Nuke.
- Kary, Kraken, and Tiamat kindly decide not to attack the red wizard.
- A Preemptive battle against 6 Sorcerers almost certainly saves the run.
- I end the game with 20 heal potions (many excellent runs turned into resets because of running out of them, and I'd never entered the Chaos battle with more than zero), which also indicates the total time healing was virtually zero.
- No issues with any other battle.
- The battle against Chaos is the highlight of the entire run.  Seriously.


Why the worst?

In addition to the sentiment of the run being over (rare for a normally not-too-emotional person like myself) as well as the question "what's next" I'm sad to say that I may need to retry this segment, despite the fact that it's taken so long just to get one successful segment.

I make a critical "human error" mistake before Kary that costs me 25 seconds.  The nerves got to me, and it looks bad to a watchful eye, despite the unbelievable luck present in the rest of the segment.  In a segment that is "only" 17 minutes or so, a 25 second mistake seems inexcusable. 


Furthermore, the last segment recording does not show the "end" of the game, as in, Chaos' disappearing and the auto-scrolling bit at the end that wraps up the story.  What happened was when I defeated Chaos, I literally jumped up from my couch in excitement controller in hand.  In doing so, I pulled my NES a little bit... and the game froze.  After staying frozen for 10 seconds wondering what happened, I decided the only thing I could do is reset the power and call it good.

Here's the thing: I had technically beaten the game at that point.  No further inputs were necessary, as the "terminated" script had alread appeared and disappeared from the screen when the game froze, which both in the TAS as well as the existing run on this site is when the game is considered beaten.  As a result, I do have a completed segment that formally meets the requirements of the site.

However, I fear that in recording and submitting the run, it is possible that the verifiers would reject the run for quality, even though every bit up to that point has perfect audio and visual with no disruptions during any segment.  I would need confirmation before submitting that the site would accept a run that does not show the final cut-scean.

Given the perhaps 1000's of hours I've put into the run at this point, I may just bite the bullet and try to record another successful segment.

Thoughts?
First off, Congrats on finally completing the run! 7 1/2 years.. that's dedication.

I went and re-read the verification rules and as far as I can tell it doesn't require the full ending/credits to be in the video. The only requirement is the actual gameplay, which for FF1 starts at character naming/class selection and end with the death of Chaos.

So I believe you're fine with the run as currently recorded. Perhaps one of the site admins can confirm?
That's a hell of a long time to spend on one run...  I've seen this thread a bunch of times and figured it was just a matter of an old thread that had a slightly misleading title because of something long completed/abandoned but was kept active because of other people using it.  In my defense there's no way I could have contributed anything of substance before now, having played this game for perhaps five hours total.

Anyway, ending credits are indeed not required, and there is precedent for editing them in after the fact so long as you explain the situation and it isn't actually dodgy (this isn't remotely dodgy IMO).  A 25 second mistake wouldn't necessarily mean you have to wait to improve to get it accepted (or be acceptable to you - seriously, this sounds like a hell of a run regardless just from skimming this thread for a couple minutes).  Neither would submitting now be shooting yourself in the foot should you improve that one segment at a later date; AFAIK you could resubmit with an improvement to the run with only the last segment being replaced (though in that case an edit of the submission comments would probably be in order as well).  An admin might say otherwise, but at least in the case of this run I highly doubt it.
Success!  It only took another 2 weeks and 30 hours or so of tries to not only get another successful Chaos segment, but also to improve upon the previous one by over a minute *and* record the ending credits without a hiccup.  No 25 second mistake (maybe a minor 1 or 2 second one here and there), no freeze when Chaos dies.

The only steps now are to burn all 89 segments onto DVD (thankfully, some were in the same recording session) and submit the package to SDA!

In terms of how the run appears on SDA, do you think it would be advisable for all 89 segments to be compiled into one file/video for viewers?  I fear that because two thirds of the segments are less  than a minute and about half are less than 20 seconds, that the "watch-ability" of the run would be significantly compromised by viewers needing to see the "SDA: Final Fantasy - Segment X" intro screen every few seconds during much of the run.  I think there was a Call of Duty and/or Half Life run once upon a time that made all the segments continuous, so I really think this would be ideal.  Is there a way to ask the editors/admin to do that?

Any other advice as I record and submit the run?  Verifiers keep your eyes open!
0-10
I would probably clump the short segments together into one file for one "grand" segment. I was planning on doing this for my Origins memosave run before it fell apart. So the 5 transition segments in Cornelia are one file, the 7 transition segments in Crescent Lake are one file, and so-on. (No, I don't really know how many segments are in each part!)

Hyped to see this one.
Congrats on getting an improvement when you redid the final section.  I'll keep my eye out for this to appear in the verification list Wink
HELLO!
I'd keep the separate segments around but do one mega-encode of the whole file, really.
Ok, submitting this one to SDA this week!  I've finally recorded all 89 segments onto a whopping 22 DVD's, tested the whole lot, and they all look and sound great.  Since my recorder would only allow me to burn entire recording sessions, there are often times 30-60 minutes of garbage on a disk just for a one minute segment, so I'd like to give an early shout out to the editing staff.

I was also reading on the forum's mail page that the 0.5 second penalty for segmented runs has been removed, which shaves 45 second of my "SDA" time.

Thanks again to everyone on this thread who has provided advice and support!
Oh yeah!! Major congratulations, WarMech! I've been following your story for more than 5 years now, and I have to say I'm very surprised that this was finally done! Don't get me wrong, I knew you had it in you to do it, but you know the thread being asleep for periods of more than a year at times, it would have been entirely understandable if you hadn't. I was even thinking of maybe doing one myself in the mean time, but this definitely makes it less of a priority. So, yeah, again, congrats!! This is one I'll be looking forward to watching for sure :-)

The only question I'm asking myself now is, will this be displayed as the main record for Final Fantasy now? I know someone already beat my SS time on twitch, but this probably means my glory days are completely behind me... hmm. Ah, well, I suppose it was inevitable.

A good day for Final Fantasy indeed! I know it's cheating, but is there any link to see it before the rest somewhere (I'm not a verifier)? Hmm, maybe I'll PM you.
Professional Second Banana
Segmented and single-segment are considered separate categories, so both will be featured on the FF1 game page if the segmented run is accepted.
Congrats, WarMech!  I look forward to watching it.  What did your final time end up being?  I can't seem to find it listed anywhere.
He he... I'm being secretive on purpose, though I promise to try to make it up to you in the run comments.

Also, thank you in advance to the verifiers!  I noticed today that the run has enough, so I appreciate all who volunteered.
It's here!  Thanks again to everyone for their contributions.  Couldn't have done it without you.

And onto my next project?  An improvement?  RTA?  Single Segment?  Another game?  The possibilities are endless!
Holy crap!  Just checked in after months and saw the time.  2:21:48 is sick!  I didn't expect it to be that low at all!  Congrats man, I'll enjoy watching it when I get the chance.

I vote RTA for your next project.  See if you can break the 3hr mark!