Tis OK man....all good things in time. DVD recorder should allow for optimal A/V fidelity to boot...so no worries at all. Who knows, during the time being you may arrive at new and better ideas for the run.
SDA Forum
I'm in your FF save, spanking Yuffie.
Yes, any speedruns of FF1 must be done on the original NES version and by dint of your hard effort you must be the one to run it.
I'm playing through the FFO version right now, and maybe it's just the Memo File being a 'legit' Save State, maybe it's just the way that winning the tile game in first place gives you 10k every time you do it, maybe it's the way the weapon inventory works like all the newer Final Fantasies, but even on 'normal' mode the changeover feels like...
Well, sleeping with an OK but sort of bitchy girl who really knows how to do the mattress mambo, then making it with her pretty, but kind of retarded stepsister who puts out for anyone. Sure, you might have fun, but it's not really a CHALLENGE you know?
I can't imagine how a speedrun of this game would be nearly as worthwhile or fun to watch as one through the cast-iron, heart-breaking, tough-as-nails original.
I'm playing through the FFO version right now, and maybe it's just the Memo File being a 'legit' Save State, maybe it's just the way that winning the tile game in first place gives you 10k every time you do it, maybe it's the way the weapon inventory works like all the newer Final Fantasies, but even on 'normal' mode the changeover feels like...
Well, sleeping with an OK but sort of bitchy girl who really knows how to do the mattress mambo, then making it with her pretty, but kind of retarded stepsister who puts out for anyone. Sure, you might have fun, but it's not really a CHALLENGE you know?
I can't imagine how a speedrun of this game would be nearly as worthwhile or fun to watch as one through the cast-iron, heart-breaking, tough-as-nails original.
Legit save state indeed.
I did it so much that someone actually left a comment telling me 'just use an emulator and save states' =p
I'd submit my run to SDA if I abused it on the overworld map. I'm just doing a fast playthrough for fun.
The GBA version lets you hard save anywhere, the Japanese record for that version is something like 1:22:xx. I'm going to put a fun little run together with that one and append 'em all into 1 segment when I get done with RE4.
I did it so much that someone actually left a comment telling me 'just use an emulator and save states' =p
I'd submit my run to SDA if I abused it on the overworld map. I'm just doing a fast playthrough for fun.
The GBA version lets you hard save anywhere, the Japanese record for that version is something like 1:22:xx. I'm going to put a fun little run together with that one and append 'em all into 1 segment when I get done with RE4.
I used to be athiest until I realized I was God.
sorry to hear. I guess thats an issue with 20-year-old technology.
Just to comment a bit on your team selection:
I tried going with BM's in my run, but the issue isn't just that they can die very easily, or that you also lack cure/life, but that when you are in boss fights, they are just dead weight. RM's can at least deal decent damage with melee'ing, but no matter how much you level a BM, they will still hit for crap. Spells deal trivial damage at this point in the game as well, so the longer menu + casting time (it adds up!) and fact you have to ration the number of spell charges means that they will be really crappy past PoP.
I found this too. We all remember the BB doing insane damage, but in a Speedrun, you're going to be underlevel, and BB's just do not deal any damage when underleveled.
I think you know this, but just in case - due to a programming bug, the 3rd and 4th members of a party have their chance to run away cut in half. This means for a theif to do anything he will have to be in your first two slots, which is silly because he sucks. FI is fine at running away, and once you get towards TOFR, the FI's will have like a 90% chance to run away from anything anyways (these algorithms are horrible).
==
We differ in our parties in that I have 2 RM's and you have 1, but I think that is because of the difference between segmented and SS runs. One reason I keep two is for safety - starting a battle with FOG2 and INV2 - being able to lose one and still have a LIFE available, etc. The time saved on PoP is non-trivial, but there's no question FI/FI/FI/RM can be lower level than FI/FI/RM/RM and both be able to kill a boss with the same odds - just a matter of burning it down while avoiding dying.
Just to comment a bit on your team selection:
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FI/FI/FI/BM - You get all spells at lower levels and would have more spells (including level 6 spells) at the end of the game, but he is so incredibly weak at lower levels that I couldn't deal with it. The lack of early healing power would be a nuisance too.
I tried going with BM's in my run, but the issue isn't just that they can die very easily, or that you also lack cure/life, but that when you are in boss fights, they are just dead weight. RM's can at least deal decent damage with melee'ing, but no matter how much you level a BM, they will still hit for crap. Spells deal trivial damage at this point in the game as well, so the longer menu + casting time (it adds up!) and fact you have to ration the number of spell charges means that they will be really crappy past PoP.
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FI/FI/BB/RM - Yeah, the black belts are cheap and can pack a pretty good punch, but as it turns out, they are actually weaker than the fighters at every single point in the game because I'm getting such good equipment for my fighters at low levels. You're right; they need to be at level 30+ before they start doing more damage than a fighter.
I found this too. We all remember the BB doing insane damage, but in a Speedrun, you're going to be underlevel, and BB's just do not deal any damage when underleveled.
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FI/FI/TH/RM - I think we already talked about this, but the thief really just sucks until the class change... and even then, he's really no better than the knights. There's no way to justify having him in your party when fighter are the second best class at running from battles anyway.
I think you know this, but just in case - due to a programming bug, the 3rd and 4th members of a party have their chance to run away cut in half. This means for a theif to do anything he will have to be in your first two slots, which is silly because he sucks. FI is fine at running away, and once you get towards TOFR, the FI's will have like a 90% chance to run away from anything anyways (these algorithms are horrible).
==
We differ in our parties in that I have 2 RM's and you have 1, but I think that is because of the difference between segmented and SS runs. One reason I keep two is for safety - starting a battle with FOG2 and INV2 - being able to lose one and still have a LIFE available, etc. The time saved on PoP is non-trivial, but there's no question FI/FI/FI/RM can be lower level than FI/FI/RM/RM and both be able to kill a boss with the same odds - just a matter of burning it down while avoiding dying.
zzzzzzzzzz
From Ben Siron's FAQ:
walking ( = canoe speed) = 2.1 steps/second
shipspeed = 7.5 steps/second
airspeed = 15 steps/second
However, it is still probably slightly more practical to use the ship to reach the Castle of Ordeals because of the difference in distance and the difficulty of the encounters in that area.
Doing the Castle of Ordeals before the Ice Cave is a good idea because Zeus's Gauntlet, Heal Helmet, and Ice Sword are all helpful in the Ice Cave, not to mention the added experience. The only real drawback in doing the Castle of Ordeals first is the fact that the Zombie Dragons, Nightmares, and other monsters are difficult in their own right.
walking ( = canoe speed) = 2.1 steps/second
shipspeed = 7.5 steps/second
airspeed = 15 steps/second
However, it is still probably slightly more practical to use the ship to reach the Castle of Ordeals because of the difference in distance and the difficulty of the encounters in that area.
Doing the Castle of Ordeals before the Ice Cave is a good idea because Zeus's Gauntlet, Heal Helmet, and Ice Sword are all helpful in the Ice Cave, not to mention the added experience. The only real drawback in doing the Castle of Ordeals first is the fact that the Zombie Dragons, Nightmares, and other monsters are difficult in their own right.
I used to be athiest until I realized I was God.
Zombie dragons are almost guranteed to die to 2 FIR2's, and give a great amount of experience compared to the damage they can deal at this point in the game.
Granted with 1 RM it is slightly more difficult, but it still should be a good exp zone at this stage in the game.
Ice sword + zeus gauntlet are also extremely valuable at this stage in the game. The castle as a whole is significantly easier than ice cave as a whole as well, so it is logical to go CoA first (although not according to the game devs)
Granted with 1 RM it is slightly more difficult, but it still should be a good exp zone at this stage in the game.
Ice sword + zeus gauntlet are also extremely valuable at this stage in the game. The castle as a whole is significantly easier than ice cave as a whole as well, so it is logical to go CoA first (although not according to the game devs)
I'm in your FF save, spanking Yuffie.
Heh, what were the game devs and the writers of the original, so-called COMPLETE GUIDE thinking? "Defeat Fire Fiend, go into Ice Cave, get Airship, walk for like 3 weeks to the Castle of Ordeals from the nearest landing spot, THEN get upgrade?" Please. One of the things I first noticed when I played the game nearly 17 years ago was how much friggin' easier it was to use the ship to avoid having to walk and fight all the Anklos, Wyrms, Sabrtooths, and all the other junk.
The NEXT thing I noticed was that I could do the Ordeal right after getting the Canoe.
The NEXT thing I noticed was that I could do the Ordeal right after getting the Canoe.
I used to be athiest until I realized I was God.
and what kind of "castle of ordeals" is it when the hardest "ordeals" you face are easy for someone right out of the earth cave?
Thats one of the reasons I love this game, the makers were so naieve.. they built the game how they wanted it to be played, and barely bothered to script for any sequence breaks.
(and didn't bother to hook up the 'int' stat to anything... or make effects for half the spells...)
Thats one of the reasons I love this game, the makers were so naieve.. they built the game how they wanted it to be played, and barely bothered to script for any sequence breaks.
(and didn't bother to hook up the 'int' stat to anything... or make effects for half the spells...)
Everything's better with Magitek
I'm pretty sure he did have a penalty. From the news for his 0:06:41 run:
"As usual we apply a time penalty for each save employed on games where free saving is allowed, so this heavy use of saving and reloading has been punished to the tune of 19½ seconds, but the new run is still nearly eleven minutes faster than the old."
"As usual we apply a time penalty for each save employed on games where free saving is allowed, so this heavy use of saving and reloading has been punished to the tune of 19½ seconds, but the new run is still nearly eleven minutes faster than the old."
Hmmh, interesting. I saved the DVDs which I used to record my own FF1 playthrough thus far. However, I don't think I'll be submitting that one, as:
1. I think I need to abuse memo saving a little more, as I don't do it on the overworld map.
2. I don't take full advantage of my segmenting. I could manipulate luck some more, but really I'm just going with the first successful attempt and being done with it.
3. I'm not entirely sure of my route. I did a lot of modifications to Warmech's route and incorporated a few things from Red Scarlet's run... Took advantage of the changes between the NES and PSX version, like being able to use Temper (Steel) and the 15-block puzzle.
4. It would involve a lot of video editing on Nate's part to put together all the successful segments. I didn't hit 'stop' on every failed dummy segment I had used to avoid a fight. Rather, I had hit 'stop' on my DVD Recorder after I'd caught the successful one. Yeah. He'd fucking HATE me if I put him through all that <_<
1. I think I need to abuse memo saving a little more, as I don't do it on the overworld map.
2. I don't take full advantage of my segmenting. I could manipulate luck some more, but really I'm just going with the first successful attempt and being done with it.
3. I'm not entirely sure of my route. I did a lot of modifications to Warmech's route and incorporated a few things from Red Scarlet's run... Took advantage of the changes between the NES and PSX version, like being able to use Temper (Steel) and the 15-block puzzle.
4. It would involve a lot of video editing on Nate's part to put together all the successful segments. I didn't hit 'stop' on every failed dummy segment I had used to avoid a fight. Rather, I had hit 'stop' on my DVD Recorder after I'd caught the successful one. Yeah. He'd fucking HATE me if I put him through all that <_<
First of all, I'm a bit touched (emotionally, not physically) by all your support... and I'm honored that you all seem to think I should still be the one to do this run. I never meant for that to be the case and would gladly welcome anyone who is interested in doing the run to do so... I'm not the exclusive type at all and another run would probably inspire me to do even better when I have a chance to record.
Being the speedrun junkie that I am, I watched the majority of Carcinogen's PSX run and thought it looked pretty solid. Just out of curiosity though, will the run really take you 3.5-4 hours? My intuition would tell me that the PSX run would be faster because of all that early gold, the use of TMPR etc, and the luck manipulation to avoid all those fights. Do the cut-scenes just add too much time or are there other major differences too?
I'm also 99% sure that doing Ordeals via the ship before the Ice Cave is the way to go. Yeah, the ship is a bit slower, but all those extra items help in the Ice Cave and it allows me to enter at level 9 rather than level 8 just the way the EXP works out. Coincidence? I think not! 8) Not to mention, you would have to walk a long way on foot after landing the airship and fight more battles along the way. I'm not sure you would save time anyway.
Back in the day, I used to do almost all my power-leveling using Zombie Dragons too. However, each EYE has 40% less HP and gives 40% more EXP and 3 times as much gold as a Zombie Dragon. EYE's also require minimal healing/thinking. The comparison isn't even close. Since I can get through the Ice Cave quickly just fine (meaning once in every 50 or so attempts), there's really no need to do any leveling before hand.
WarMech
Being the speedrun junkie that I am, I watched the majority of Carcinogen's PSX run and thought it looked pretty solid. Just out of curiosity though, will the run really take you 3.5-4 hours? My intuition would tell me that the PSX run would be faster because of all that early gold, the use of TMPR etc, and the luck manipulation to avoid all those fights. Do the cut-scenes just add too much time or are there other major differences too?
I'm also 99% sure that doing Ordeals via the ship before the Ice Cave is the way to go. Yeah, the ship is a bit slower, but all those extra items help in the Ice Cave and it allows me to enter at level 9 rather than level 8 just the way the EXP works out. Coincidence? I think not! 8) Not to mention, you would have to walk a long way on foot after landing the airship and fight more battles along the way. I'm not sure you would save time anyway.
Back in the day, I used to do almost all my power-leveling using Zombie Dragons too. However, each EYE has 40% less HP and gives 40% more EXP and 3 times as much gold as a Zombie Dragon. EYE's also require minimal healing/thinking. The comparison isn't even close. Since I can get through the Ice Cave quickly just fine (meaning once in every 50 or so attempts), there's really no need to do any leveling before hand.
WarMech
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First of all, I'm a bit touched (emotionally, not physically) by all your support...
Quote:
Being the speedrun junkie that I am, I watched the majority of Carcinogen's PSX run and thought it looked pretty solid. Just out of curiosity though, will the run really take you 3.5-4 hours? My intuition would tell me that the PSX run would be faster because of all that early gold, the use of TMPR etc, and the luck manipulation to avoid all those fights. Do the cut-scenes just add too much time or are there other major differences too?
I'm thinking I'll clock in under 3 hours. I'll try to clock in a little faster. What I wrote on my playlist was a tentative target, but that changed after I saw what kind of time I was getting at that particular point in the game.
As far as the playthrough itself goes, it seems alright, but I'm not really taking full advantage of the luck manipulation and saving seconds. That, and I'm actually improvising the route as I go along (XD). So I can't really call it a 'speedrun' so much as a 'quick playthrough'. I'm just avoiding fights and saving after the first successful attempt. After all, too much luck manipulation tends to piss me off =p
The extra cutscenes add in a few minutes here and there, but the version changes more than make up for the loss.
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I'm also 99% sure that doing Ordeals via the ship before the Ice Cave is the way to go. Yeah, the ship is a bit slower, but all those extra items help in the Ice Cave and it allows me to enter at level 9 rather than level 8 just the way the EXP works out. Coincidence? I think not! 8) Not to mention, you would have to walk a long way on foot after landing the airship and fight more battles along the way. I'm not sure you would save time anyway.
Actually, I meant going Ice Cave for Floater -> Ship to Ordeals -> Airship. You'd probably save a little time that way. Of course you wouldn't save time by landing the airship near Ordeals XDD
Ultimately though, it's your call. I'd be pretty frustrated at all the extra attempts if I went to the Ice Cave first though =p
I got to Chaos in my own little run, but I'm too ill-equipped. He has too damn many powerful spells. I may have to go out of my way to buy a few 'null' spells (NulBlaze, etc.) in order to survive long enough to dish out the damage needed to kill him. Nastier yet, he uses a Cure4 in the middle of the fight.
I clocked in at 3:16 final 'save', in front of Chaos. I'm going to wind up making it 10 minutes longer in preparation for this fight.
This sucks. Just be happy the NES version isn't so aggressive =p
I clocked in at 3:16 final 'save', in front of Chaos. I'm going to wind up making it 10 minutes longer in preparation for this fight.
This sucks. Just be happy the NES version isn't so aggressive =p