FFXII - New Run Complete!

2012-06-28 10:28:48 am

Don't know what to speedrun :(

The thiefs cap gives 480 HP. The tank uses it so I only need one. I may consider buying a cheaper Leather Hat or possibly not getting one at all; 500 HP is a lot to not have though.

I know KY doesn't get either the Storm or Glacial staffs. They are only used for one fight each and I would save 10k by not buying them. I wonder if the extra cost in fight time would be less than how long it takes to farm that much Gil with Jellies. I estimate it would take about 4 minutes to farm 10k gil on Jellies (two jelly spawns) so it very well might be worth not getting them. I know on Mateus it will only cost me 1 extra cast from Ashe and Penelo which is only about 10 seconds.

The Mirror Mail is used as soon as you can get it through the end of the run. It is stronger than the Shielded Armor and it gives you Reflect when you have it equipped. You wear the Shielded Armor when running places so you can cast Curaga on yourself and you wear the Mirror Mail in fights.

I already left 2 Ruby Rings out of the spending plan (they are an accessory that gives you reflect) since it doesn't cost too much time to have one person reflect themself.

72200 gil is still more than one round of farming. That's significantly less than before though. If that were the case I might be able to really save some time on Jelly farming by optimizing it for speed and not having to worry too much about collecting every single drop.

There is also the one time 5k gil chest in Balfonhiem but I still don't think the 60K from a full farming round and that would be enough money through the end of the game. In my test run I'll compare the fight times with and without the staff's to see if it's worth not getting them.

Thanks for the help. Keep the ideas coming.

The thiefs cap gives 480 HP. The tank uses it so I only need one. I may consider buying a cheaper Leather Hat or possibly not getting one at all; 500 HP is a lot to not have though.

I know KY doesn't get either the Storm or Glacial staffs. They are only used for one fight each and I would save 10k by not buying them. I wonder if the extra cost in fight time would be less than how long it takes to farm that much Gil with Jellies. I estimate it would take about 4 minutes to farm 10k gil on Jellies (two jelly spawns) so it very well might be worth not getting them. I know on Mateus it will only cost me 1 extra cast from Ashe and Penelo which is only about 10 seconds.

The Mirror Mail is used as soon as you can get it through the end of the run. It is stronger than the Shielded Armor and it gives you Reflect when you have it equipped. You wear the Shielded Armor when running places so you can cast Curaga on yourself and you wear the Mirror Mail in fights.

I already left 2 Ruby Rings out of the spending plan (they are an accessory that gives you reflect) since it doesn't cost too much time to have one person reflect themself.

72200 gil is still more than one round of farming. That's significantly less than before though. If that were the case I might be able to really save some time on Jelly farming by optimizing it for speed and not having to worry too much about collecting every single drop.

There is also the one time 5k gil chest in Balfonhiem but I still don't think the 60K from a full farming round and that would be enough money through the end of the game. In my test run I'll compare the fight times with and without the staff's to see if it's worth not getting them.

Thanks for the help. Keep the ideas coming.

Fragmaster01

2012-06-28 10:53:08 am

Wiggle wiggle

*Doesn't have any more ideas, so settles for cheerleading instead.*

*Uses the moogles as pom-poms.*

Zali

2012-06-28 12:02:47 pm

Quote:

The thiefs cap gives 480 HP.

lol, yes, ok^^. For some reason i thought at Thief's Cuffs, when i saw this. That's why i was confused. I don't know the english names so good.

Well, i don't know if you have a diamond armlet or plan with one. If yes, there is a one time chest in Giza Plains, which can contain a maximum of 50000 Gil. Without the armlet it's only a maximum of 550.

This is the chest: http://ff12maps.com/#map:gizaplainsdry/483/376/undefined/undefined

The odds are not so good though and it take maybe 1 minute or a little more ingame time to get, but maybe it can help you out.

Youkai

2012-06-28 12:11:05 pm

Don't know what to speedrun :(

Hmm. That chest would be awesome but the problem is needing the Diamond armlet. Getting the armlet would cost me 1-2 minutes and even if I waited until Balfonhiem port and take the airship to the save point next to it I think it would cost me 2-3 minutes in detours and extra saves to get the chest. That means I would lose about 6 minutes overall. In that amount of time I can farm 10k gil on jellies. Not as much as the chest but I'll get license points as well on Jellies. It's a good idea but I don't think it's worth it Sad

Zali

2012-06-28 12:32:06 pm

Well, i would take another road:

Save at Balfonheim Crystal -> Eastersand Crystal, buy the armlet -> Tchita Uplands, cause there is an anchor right away -> Giza Plains -> To the chest and back to anchor -> Riodorana Cataract Anchor.

I would really like to test it, but my PS2 is broken :(. 3 minutes is my estimation with this road. Well, there is another little thing. You need dry time in Giza Plains for this chest. It can be, that you're in rain time, when you're reaching this point of the story. At least, when i estimate your play times right.

Youkai

Edit history:

Youkai: 2012-06-28 01:44:10 pm

Youkai: 2012-06-28 01:43:47 pm

2012-06-28 12:37:34 pm

Don't know what to speedrun :(

Ok that would be faster but the armlet costs 20k meaning the most I could earn from the chest is 30k. Is the 50k guaranteed or is that a range? If it is guaranteed that would be faster than jelly farming assuming its dry in Giza and I can get it before I need the money.

Zali

2012-06-28 03:27:39 pm

Good Question. I don't know. Never picked this chest early in the game with diamond armlet sry.

Zali

2012-06-28 03:28:24 pm

I mean late in the game, not early :). Sorry for double post.

trowabartan

Edit history:

trowabartan: 2012-06-28 05:42:46 pm

2012-06-28 05:42:23 pm

Quote from Salem:

Quote from trowabartan:

Quote from Salem:

Yes, in wait mode all actions are executed sequentially by activation and only one action can be performed on screen at any one time. So if an action was activated while another was charging it has to wait until the charging one is performed. It's kind of a real time turn based play style. Actions can be charged simultaneously but then they will resolve in order. If you watch Ky's video again you'll see that there are never red numbers until the spell has finished casting. I hope this helps. Smiley

That doesn't sound right. In my experience different actions have different, let's call it, queue values. The higher their graphical intensity the higher the queue value. The basic fire spell is low enough that all 3 chars can cast it at the same time without delaying other actions. However only 2 Firaga can be cast at the same time with the 3rd and all other 'casted' actions being delayed until at least one finishes. Basic attacks are not delayed. An easy way to test is with a spell like Flare. It will always require an empty active spell queue in order to cast regardless of wait/active.

I haven't followed FFXII much at all since I did that yiazmat in 1 hour vid but from my understanding spell queue manipulation was a basic part of a lot of the challenges.

What you're describing is the animation delay which is also a real thing but separate from the wait command part I was talking about. One is an effect of the game setting the other is an effect of the built in graphical limitations and how they're sequenced. Dark normally doesn't cause an animation delay so I didn't mention it. There is a section on it in the Game Mechanics faq.

I spent 80% of my time in wait mode and never saw this. Unless they were stuck waiting for the spell queue, actions executed as soon as the 'charge' time finished which typically means in order which would be exactly the same as active except that there would be a larger 'in-game delay'(as opposed to the 'real-time' delay of wait).

I found the section in maltzan's faq but it seems quite clear that he was confusing the spell queue with having anything to do with wait mode. If you read the last sentence he says 'This explains why some magics with long animation will put the other actions on hold to a noticeable level.' which IS the spell queue and then later he edited in a 'note' which states that this same behavior is found in 'Active' mode which completely contradicts his wait vs active statement just prior. Regular attacks may still execute while an intensive spell animation in both modes.

[quote="Salem"][quote="trowabartan"][quote="Salem"]Yes, in wait mode all actions are executed sequentially by activation and only one action can be performed on screen at any one time.  So if an action was activated while another was charging it has to wait until the charging one is performed.  It's kind of a real time turn based play style.  Actions can be charged simultaneously but then they will resolve in order.  If you watch Ky's video again you'll see that there are never red numbers until the spell has finished casting.  I hope this helps. :)[/quote]

That doesn't sound right.  In my experience different actions have different, let's call it, queue values.  The higher their graphical intensity  the higher the queue value.  The basic fire spell is low enough that all 3 chars can cast it at the same time without delaying other actions.  However only 2 Firaga can be cast at the same time with the 3rd and all other 'casted' actions being delayed until at least one finishes.  Basic attacks are not delayed.  An easy way to test is with a spell like Flare.  It will always require an empty active spell queue in order to cast regardless of wait/active.

I haven't followed FFXII much at all since I did that yiazmat in 1 hour vid but from my understanding spell queue manipulation was a basic part of a lot of the challenges.[/quote]

What you're describing is the animation delay which is also a real thing but separate from the wait command part I was talking about.  One is an effect of the game setting the other is an effect of the built in graphical limitations and how they're sequenced.  Dark normally doesn't cause an animation delay so I didn't mention it.  There is a section on it in the Game Mechanics faq.[/quote]

I spent 80% of my time in wait mode and never saw this.  Unless they were stuck waiting for the spell queue, actions executed as soon as the 'charge' time finished which typically means in order which would be exactly the same as active except that there would be a larger 'in-game delay'(as opposed to the 'real-time' delay of wait).

I found the section in maltzan's faq but it seems quite clear that he was confusing the spell queue with having anything to do with wait mode.  If you read the last sentence he says 'This explains why some magics with long animation will put the other actions on hold to a noticeable level.' which IS the spell queue and then later he edited in a 'note' which states that this same behavior is found in 'Active' mode which completely contradicts his wait vs active statement just prior.  Regular attacks may still execute while an intensive spell animation in both modes.

Salem

2012-06-28 06:50:03 pm

I see. I seem to have misunderstood the faq and misinterpreted my own experiences. I apologize.

Youkai

2012-06-30 10:27:27 am

Don't know what to speedrun :(

New hour 1 is on youtube with commentary if you want to see it:

Code:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=B88_spHoZ8g

Youkai

2012-07-01 08:35:15 pm

Don't know what to speedrun :(

Hour 2 is now up. Here is the playlist: http://www.youtube.com/playlist?list=PLA9DB1B3B13498CA0

Youkai

2012-07-06 12:22:29 am

Don't know what to speedrun :(

More frustration in speedrunnig land this week. While playing ahead I found out I am going to have to do two rounds of Jellies for the money. Which means I can't do as much Ba'Gamnon farming as I did. So I had to go back into hour 2 and re-do that. I cut it down to 50 kills which will allow me to have Spellbreaker early, Black belts for Tiamat, and Golden Amulets for Jelly chaining.

As of right now I just beat Tiamat and I'm at 2:53:05. Now I'm going to play ahead through the end of the game so I can make sure I spend my Jelly LP correctly.

Youkai

Edit history:

Youkai: 2012-07-08 01:20:38 pm

2012-07-08 12:36:52 pm

Don't know what to speedrun :(

Ok this speedrun is baloney. Seriously. Utter crap. I'm playing ahead to make sure the second half of the game will work. I got to Tyrant and I'm getting destroyed. He kills me in two attacks. I don't even get him to 70% health with the magic he is weak against and the staffs for that magic.

I'm done with this run for a while. Going to have a life again. Maybe I'll pick it back up later.

EDIT: ok so it seems that Tyrant is highly susceptible to confuse. To the point that you can keep casting it on him and he never attacks you. I'll probably continue my test playthrough but I won't be as consistent about it as I have been recently.

Zali

2012-07-08 03:16:04 pm

Could this be the <0% Glitch? Tyrant has 87 Vitality. Not so little, that everything could work on him with the first attempt. Especially not confuses hit rate of 50%. But it should be good for the glitch. Should be easy to get 0% chance with such a high vitality value for the enemy.

Gosh, i hope it's understandable what i mean :-).

Youkai

2012-07-08 03:20:12 pm

Don't know what to speedrun :(

Yes I'm sure it is. He used it on Daedalus as well by having Fran confuse him. I'll test that out when I decide to work on the game again.

For now I'm going to work on a new Gears of War Insane difficulty run.

Youkai

2012-07-12 09:06:02 pm

Don't know what to speedrun :(

I beat Sheezamai (however you spell it). Which means I'm done with Giruvegan on my test playthrough. Now I just need to get through Pharos and I can start actually working on the run again.

lurker

2012-07-13 06:10:00 pm

rando here
go youkai, this shit is amazing!

Youkai

2012-07-14 07:39:25 pm

Don't know what to speedrun :(

lol thanks lurker

Does anybody know the trick to fighting Hashamel? The fight is at 14 minutes in this video: http://www.nicovideo.jp/watch/sm15787168

He is completely destroying me. I can't figure out why he is getting so many attacks in on me but it went so smoothly for KY. He seems to always get two attacks in by the time my first round of Aeroga get off and one of them kills a mage.

Nitrodon

2012-07-14 10:25:33 pm

In the Japanese version, Hashmal will always open the battle with Haste, and then use Haste again once when his HP goes below 50% (presumably requires Haste to run out first, which explains the Dispel). Unfortunately, he will never cast Haste in the US version, so you will not be able to copy the battle exactly.

Youkai

2012-07-14 11:15:34 pm

Don't know what to speedrun :(

Oh fantastic. Nice catch Nitro. I guess I'll have to try Decoy'ing Vaan and getting him to survive long enough for the casters to damage Hashamal down into his earth based attacks.

Youkai

2012-07-15 02:35:04 pm

Don't know what to speedrun :(

Arg! I can't kill Cid at the top of Pharos. Vaan just keeps dying too quickly. I think if I had bubble it wouldn't be too difficult to keep him alive but I can't really get it now.

Youkai

2012-07-15 03:29:55 pm

Don't know what to speedrun :(

Updated spending plan. This totals 129k gil. If I do two complete rounds of Jelly farming I can sell the loot for 118k gil. I'll get a little extra from selling old gear but probably not 10K. If I manipulate the Megalixer in the Stillshrine I can sell that for 7k which will help. I guess I could also save 8k by not getting the ice gear and just using Bio on Tyrant.

Aeroga - 6800
Bio - 4900
Blizzara - 3000
Bubble - 3300
Carabeener Mail x1 - 11000
Confuse - 1400
Cura - 1500
Curaga - 3200
Death - 5200
Decoy - 2500
Dispel - 4500
Enchanters Habit x2 - 6400
Esuna - 2800
Firaga - 8200
Glacial staff x2 - 4800
Gilt Measure - 4000
Hi-Potion x30 - 6300
Lamia's Tiara x2 - 6400
Mirror Mail - 8100
Pheonix Down x20 - 5000
Storm staff x2 - 4800
Theif's Cap x1 - 9300
Thundara - 3000
X-Potion x20 - 12600

Youkai

2012-07-17 03:55:31 pm

Don't know what to speedrun :(

Ok so considering how tight the money is going to be I'm wondering if the Gilt Measure is worth it. I put it on the list because it gives 25 evasion and I can equip a shield while wearing it which makes it as good as the treaty blade for evasion. Also that's the one with protect and I believe just having it equipped gives me protect correct?

So the question is does anybody have knowledge of how exactly protect works and if it's worth the 4k gil to have it for the rest of the game? How much does protect actually increase your defense?

Deedlit

2012-07-18 06:28:11 am

I love YaBB 1G - SP1!

I think protect is unrelated to defense, it just reduces damage by 30%. It's been a while though!

Glad to see you're back to doing the run!