Dr. Mario 64

2009-10-01 02:57:34 pm

Alright, my run is up on Youtube. It's in 5 parts to even split it on levels. Here they are:

Part 1:
Part 2:
Part 3:
Part 4:
Part 5:

I'd like some opinions if I should submit it or go for a better time. I think it's ready to submit, but a little faster would likely be possible. However, keep in mind this is my fastest time by over 30 seconds.

Darkwing Duck

2009-10-05 07:55:09 pm

Highly Evolved

You do realize how annoyed I got when I saw something develop and I thought, it would be nice if a solid yellow came, and what showed up in the queue?

neskamikaze

2009-10-05 08:16:34 pm

Quote from Darkwing Duck:

You do realize how annoyed I got when I saw something develop and I thought, it would be nice if a solid yellow came, and what showed up in the queue?

That was pretty nice, wasn't it?
However, what you did not see were the 50+ Level 0's that came before that one that were not so nice.

I decided I'm happy with the run, and I've emailed Mike and written out my comments, and hope to see it in the verification thread in the next week or so.

Darkwing Duck

2009-10-05 09:16:38 pm

Highly Evolved

Not even level 0. There were plenty of other ones where you got the pill at the right time.

And realistically, you didn't do anything I don't usually do. You just did it three minutes faster than I do, which I haven't figured out how yet.

EDIT: Actually, I do remember one thing, the fast spinning of some pills. Not sure why you did that the times you did. Only thing I can think of was to make sure you put it down correctly.

neskamikaze

2009-10-05 09:47:17 pm

Quote from Darkwing Duck:

Not even level 0. There were plenty of other ones where you got the pill at the right time.

And realistically, you didn't do anything I don't usually do. You just did it three minutes faster than I do, which I haven't figured out how yet.

EDIT: Actually, I do remember one thing, the fast spinning of some pills. Not sure why you did that the times you did. Only thing I can think of was to make sure you put it down correctly.

Those times when I kept getting the double yellows were times I saw the move ahead of time and deliberately avoided the area until I found the double yellow, which sometimes happened quicker than I thought it would. There's not a lot of stuff I could be doing that another good player wouldn't, it's just catching the right moves, getting the right pills, and not making many mistakes. I think I went as fast as I could, with the exceptions being the quick spinning, which as you thought were me making sure I did it correct. I have a bad habit of flipping pills twice when they need not be flipped at all, and then I have to give it two more flips to correct it.

[quote="Darkwing Duck"]
Not even level 0.  There were plenty of other ones where you got the pill at the right time.

And realistically, you didn't do anything I don't usually do.  You just did it three minutes faster than I do, which I haven't figured out how yet.

EDIT: Actually, I do remember one thing, the fast spinning of some pills.  Not sure why you did that the times you did.  Only thing I can think of was to make sure you put it down correctly.
[/quote]

Those times when I kept getting the double yellows were times I saw the move ahead of time and deliberately avoided the area until I found the double yellow, which sometimes happened quicker than I thought it would. There's not a lot of stuff I could be doing that another good player wouldn't, it's just catching the right moves, getting the right pills, and not making many mistakes. I think I went as fast as I could, with the exceptions being the quick spinning, which as you thought were me making sure I did it correct. I have a bad habit of flipping pills twice when they need not be flipped at all, and then I have to give it two more flips to correct it.

Darkwing Duck

2009-10-05 09:58:03 pm

Highly Evolved

Quote from neskamikaze:

Quote from Darkwing Duck:

Not even level 0. There were plenty of other ones where you got the pill at the right time.

And realistically, you didn't do anything I don't usually do. You just did it three minutes faster than I do, which I haven't figured out how yet.

EDIT: Actually, I do remember one thing, the fast spinning of some pills. Not sure why you did that the times you did. Only thing I can think of was to make sure you put it down correctly.

Those times when I kept getting the double yellows were times I saw the move ahead of time and deliberately avoided the area until I found the double yellow, which sometimes happened quicker than I thought it would. There's not a lot of stuff I could be doing that another good player wouldn't, it's just catching the right moves, getting the right pills, and not making many mistakes. I think I went as fast as I could, with the exceptions being the quick spinning, which as you thought were me making sure I did it correct. I have a bad habit of flipping pills twice when they need not be flipped at all, and then I have to give it two more flips to correct it.

Sometimes? I'd have stuff sit for 12-15 pills and be forced to break it followed by the proper piece right afterward. I think the most you had to wait was five pills or so. You never had a setup where you had to waste a pill protecting the setup.

It's also amazing how the mind works. There have been many a time where I could have sworn the piece was in the correct position, times where I even ignored the piece if the next pill went elsewhere and then been completely surprised when I look over there again.

[quote="neskamikaze"]
[quote="Darkwing Duck"]
Not even level 0.  There were plenty of other ones where you got the pill at the right time.

And realistically, you didn't do anything I don't usually do.  You just did it three minutes faster than I do, which I haven't figured out how yet.

EDIT: Actually, I do remember one thing, the fast spinning of some pills.  Not sure why you did that the times you did.  Only thing I can think of was to make sure you put it down correctly.
[/quote]

Those times when I kept getting the double yellows were times I saw the move ahead of time and deliberately avoided the area until I found the double yellow, [u][i][b]which sometimes happened quicker than I thought it would.[/b][/i][/u] There's not a lot of stuff I could be doing that another good player wouldn't, it's just catching the right moves, getting the right pills, and not making many mistakes. I think I went as fast as I could, with the exceptions being the quick spinning, which as you thought were me making sure I did it correct. I have a bad habit of flipping pills twice when they need not be flipped at all, and then I have to give it two more flips to correct it.
[/quote]

Sometimes?  I'd have stuff sit for 12-15 pills and be forced to break it followed by the proper piece right afterward.  I think the most you had to wait was five pills or so.  You never had a setup where you had to waste a pill protecting the setup.

It's also amazing how the mind works.  There have been many a time where I could have sworn the piece was in the correct position, times where I even ignored the piece if the next pill went elsewhere and then been completely surprised when I look over there again.

neskamikaze

2009-10-05 10:04:52 pm

Quote from Darkwing Duck:

Quote from neskamikaze:

Quote from Darkwing Duck:

Not even level 0. There were plenty of other ones where you got the pill at the right time.

And realistically, you didn't do anything I don't usually do. You just did it three minutes faster than I do, which I haven't figured out how yet.

EDIT: Actually, I do remember one thing, the fast spinning of some pills. Not sure why you did that the times you did. Only thing I can think of was to make sure you put it down correctly.

Those times when I kept getting the double yellows were times I saw the move ahead of time and deliberately avoided the area until I found the double yellow, which sometimes happened quicker than I thought it would. There's not a lot of stuff I could be doing that another good player wouldn't, it's just catching the right moves, getting the right pills, and not making many mistakes. I think I went as fast as I could, with the exceptions being the quick spinning, which as you thought were me making sure I did it correct. I have a bad habit of flipping pills twice when they need not be flipped at all, and then I have to give it two more flips to correct it.

Sometimes? I'd have stuff sit for 12-15 pills and be forced to break it followed by the proper piece right afterward. I think the most you had to wait was five pills or so. You never had a setup where you had to waste a pill protecting the setup.

It's also amazing how the mind works. There have been many a time where I could have sworn the piece was in the correct position, times where I even ignored the piece if the next pill went elsewhere and then been completely surprised when I look over there again.

There may have been once or twice, but you're right, I did get very lucky. A live playthrough would probably not turn out nearly so well.

I've done the exact same thing... I sometimes feel dyslexic playing this game.

[quote="Darkwing Duck"]
[quote="neskamikaze"]
[quote="Darkwing Duck"]
Not even level 0.  There were plenty of other ones where you got the pill at the right time.

And realistically, you didn't do anything I don't usually do.  You just did it three minutes faster than I do, which I haven't figured out how yet.

EDIT: Actually, I do remember one thing, the fast spinning of some pills.  Not sure why you did that the times you did.  Only thing I can think of was to make sure you put it down correctly.
[/quote]

Those times when I kept getting the double yellows were times I saw the move ahead of time and deliberately avoided the area until I found the double yellow, [u][i][b]which sometimes happened quicker than I thought it would.[/b][/i][/u] There's not a lot of stuff I could be doing that another good player wouldn't, it's just catching the right moves, getting the right pills, and not making many mistakes. I think I went as fast as I could, with the exceptions being the quick spinning, which as you thought were me making sure I did it correct. I have a bad habit of flipping pills twice when they need not be flipped at all, and then I have to give it two more flips to correct it.
[/quote]

Sometimes?  I'd have stuff sit for 12-15 pills and be forced to break it followed by the proper piece right afterward.  I think the most you had to wait was five pills or so.  You never had a setup where you had to waste a pill protecting the setup.

It's also amazing how the mind works.  There have been many a time where I could have sworn the piece was in the correct position, times where I even ignored the piece if the next pill went elsewhere and then been completely surprised when I look over there again.  
[/quote]

There may have been once or twice, but you're right, I did get very lucky. A live playthrough would probably not turn out nearly so well.

I've done the exact same thing... I sometimes feel dyslexic playing this game.

yoshifan

2010-01-31 05:25:35 pm

Answering this question to me from another topic:

Quote from Darkwing Duck:

Why have you never submitted your Dr. Mario 64 runs to SDA?

For a while I was indecisive about submitting them, partly because I wasn't sure if I'd tried hard enough, and partly since I wasn't getting feedback on the runs. I'm not sure what kind of feedback I was expecting, though, so I can't really rationalize that thought (and Essentia's runs were accepted, too... not sure why I didn't consider that). By now I just don't have much of an attachment to the runs, since it's been so long. >_> I've had vague plans of improving them, but I have no idea when it's going to happen, so... I can submit the runs if you'd like to see them up.

By the way, I'd like to give my (very late) compliments to neskamikaze for his Classic run! Despite the deaths, that time looks like it'll be hard to beat.

Darkwing Duck

2010-02-01 02:14:30 am

Highly Evolved

I guess I can see why you wouldn't want to submit them now, being so long ago and all. The problem is that should someone try to improve Essentia's run, they really should be targeting your times.

neskamikaze

2010-02-01 09:46:48 am

Quote from yoshifan:

By the way, I'd like to give my (very late) compliments to neskamikaze for his Classic run! Despite the deaths, that time looks like it'll be hard to beat.

Thanks! This run should be up on the site in the next couple updates. I think sub 36:30 is possible, so if someone beats mine I'm coming back after it.

neskamikaze

2010-03-10 10:26:59 am

I was going back to story mode, and then looking at this forum, and yoshifan, what are your times exactly? I beat Essentia's normal story by 2 minutes within a few tries, but I want to know what the best times are before I start trying to record.

Essentia

2010-03-10 11:05:32 am

Everything's better with Magitek

Please do it! I didn't try that hard on my story mode runs (I mainly did them because people said they'd like to see some story mode runs), and they really need to be obsoleted.

neskamikaze

2010-03-10 03:18:41 pm

Alright, I'll give it a go, though I'm in the middle of a couple other SS projects at the moment and I want to get at least one of those before I seriously move on to this.

Darkwing Duck

2010-03-10 05:12:48 pm

Highly Evolved

Yoshifan had a link to his Youtube vids early in the topic. Are they still up? They had the times on them. Those are the times I think you have to beat.

neskamikaze

2010-03-10 09:06:17 pm

Quote from Darkwing Duck:

Yoshifan had a link to his Youtube vids early in the topic. Are they still up? They had the times on them. Those are the times I think you have to beat.

Thanks for pointing that out.
I wouldn't want to submit something below those times.

yoshifan

2010-03-11 11:14:07 pm

They were actually uploaded to Vortiginous (sdkess's site). Around here: http://speeddemosarchive.com/forum/index.php?topic=5186.msg189228#msg189228
My times are 7:49, 12:37, 18:11, and 25:22 (S-Hard wasn't recorded).

Good luck when you get to this. Smiley

Sorry if my decision to not submit my runs seems kind of selfish... if you don't get around to this by the summer, maybe I'll just improve on my own times and submit.

neskamikaze

2010-03-12 09:14:52 am

I've been doing a few practice games, and it seems like I get so close to KOing the CPUs, but they never quite die. They'll be one pill from the top and the garbage just will not land in the right spot, it's obnoxious.

cyghfer

2010-06-22 05:25:04 pm

Pretty insubstantial reasons to bump this thread, but:

yoshifan you should def submit those story mode runs if you still have them. I found the hard mode run quite entertaining, and I'll probably watch the other two later tonight.

It might be better to create a new thread for this but screw it. I'm gonna try and run Dr. Mario NES after I finish Kirby's Avalanche. I know levels 19 and 20 are significantly harder on the NES version and there're no credits, but I think the original game should have a run on the site (Mike's told me that a 0-20 run is acceptable). I prefer its music and sound effects to the 64 version, anyway.

I also do want to try and compete on the 64 version eventually as well (storybook and classic!), but I'll be attacking the NES version first.

neskamikaze

2010-06-22 06:02:20 pm

Do it. I don't have the NES version to compete but I will when you get to the N64 classic.

neskamikaze

2011-01-14 07:53:34 am

Bump! After playing it for the marathon, and I've been using this game as stress relief (which I can forsee needing a lot of this semester) so I might be gunning for an improvement. I beat my submitted time for the first time this morning with 36:42, but I think for me to submit it would need to be at the very most 36:30 and no deaths, but I think I might actually keep it up until I get sub-36. I just know it's possible, but it'll take a combination of being lucky and virtually mistake free.

tbpotn

2013-10-22 02:19:08 pm

Is owning a N64 the only way to compete on this game or is it allowed to use an emulator?

Strongfox

Edit history:

Strongfox: 2013-10-23 07:46:48 am

2013-10-23 07:46:23 am

Quote from tbpotn:

Is owning a N64 the only way to compete on this game or is it allowed to use an emulator?

Emulator is not allowed in this community for any system that has a normal way of recording. The only exception is for old DOS games that cant run on new systems properly.

psychoripper

2013-10-31 09:04:54 am

fast video games

you could still play this game and time attack it on emulator, just wouldnt be accepted here as an official run

FrankJones

Edit history:

FrankJones: 2015-08-31 08:18:54 pm

FrankJones: 2015-08-31 08:17:50 pm

FrankJones: 2015-08-31 08:17:22 pm

2015-08-31 08:16:53 pm

I am bumping this thread. Dr. Mario 64 was always a favorite of mine, and though I am pretty good, I discovered through this site that as with many things, there are always people out there whose skill makes you shake your head in amazement and re-evaluate your own skill.

In Essentia's run, she went through Story Mode hard and had maybe 5 mistakes in the entire run, completing it in 24:27? Wow.

So, I spent all weekend trying to beat it, coming very close a few times.....

Only to then discover that someone (Yoshifan) completed the run in 18:11 ???????????

18:11 !???

That's mind boggling.

A few questions:

1) Why on earth is that video not posted here? It's more than 6 minutes better than the posted video! And the posted video is already amazing.

2) Please don't anyone take this the wrong way, I am new here and don't want to be that guy who shows up and sounds like he is criticizing something, but wouldn't it be helpful if there were a master list of "times to beat" so someone doesn't spend hours and hours trying to beat a run in the posted videos section only to discover through a years-old forum thread that someone has a better time?

I was actually surprised to come close to Essentia's posted time, because I am rusty and also not as good she she is. This is a difficult game to run, for many reasons, but it's also difficult to evaluate what should be considered a "top run." What would be more impressive: A run of x minutes with no mistakes and perfect placement of pieces, or a run of x - y minutes with several errors? If someone beats the best time, but has more numerous errors, would it still be submission-worthy? This is an important question, because if the posted run needs to be the fastest AND not have errors, then the runner must reset after an early mistake. I prefer to play through the mistake, since you can sometimes set up and execute a spectacular recovery in dramatic fashion.

I haven't watched the 18 minute video but I will in a moment. I am assuming almost all of the wins were combo kills and not virus clears. If so, then beating that time would pretty much require a reset if any of the first several levels are not quick combo kills.

Also, I have some questions about game mechanics:

Does anyone know how the game mechanics work?

Aside from the color-enemy matched combos in the multi-player game, is there any player control over where the two piece combos fall (not the colors, but the columns in which they drop)? Or is the placement "random"? I put random in quotes, because if it is NOT player-controlled, then it is definitely does not seem random. They almost always seem to fall outside the two center columns, and almost always will fall on an already filled column if possible. In general, as the difficulty increases, my combos seem to do less damage and the opponent's seem to do more. Is this a result of rubberband-AI at work? After all, there is a limit to how difficult a computer-controlled player can be programmed without resorting to such nonsense (unless they just programmed it to make the optimal move as fast as possible, in which case it would be unbeatable and pointless). So, it must be programmed to be beatable but difficult, which seems to result in these heroic nearly-impossible measures in mid-game and late-game.

I am bumping this thread.  Dr. Mario 64 was always a favorite of mine, and though I am pretty good, I discovered through this site that as with many things, there are always people out there whose skill makes you shake your head in amazement and re-evaluate your own skill.

In Essentia's run, she went through Story Mode hard and had maybe 5 mistakes in the entire run, completing it in 24:27?  Wow.

So, I spent all weekend trying to beat it, coming very close a few times.....

Only to then discover that someone (Yoshifan) completed the run in 18:11 ???????????

18:11 !???

That's mind boggling.

A few questions:

1)  Why on earth is that video not posted here?  It's more than 6 minutes better than the posted video!  And the posted video is already amazing.

2)  Please don't anyone take this the wrong way, I am new here and don't want to be that guy who shows up and sounds like he is criticizing something, but wouldn't it be helpful if there were a master list of "times to beat" so someone doesn't spend hours and hours trying to beat a run in the posted videos section only to discover through a years-old forum thread that someone has a better time?

I was actually surprised to come close to Essentia's posted time, because I am rusty and also not as good she she is.   This is a difficult game to run, for many reasons, but it's also difficult to evaluate what should be considered a "top run."  What would be more impressive:  A run of x minutes with no mistakes and perfect placement of pieces, or a run of x - y minutes with several errors?  If someone beats the best time, but has more numerous errors, would it still be submission-worthy?  This is an important question, because if the posted run needs to be the fastest AND not have errors, then the runner must reset after an early mistake.  I prefer to play through the mistake, since you can sometimes set up and execute a spectacular recovery in dramatic fashion.

I haven't watched the 18 minute video but I will in a moment.  I am assuming almost all of the wins were combo kills and not virus clears.   If so, then beating that time would pretty much require a reset if any of the first several levels are not quick combo kills.

Also, I have some questions about game mechanics:

Does anyone know how the game mechanics work?

Aside from the color-enemy matched combos in the multi-player game, is there any player control over where the two piece combos fall (not the colors, but the columns in which they drop)? Or is the placement "random"?  I put random in quotes, because if it is NOT player-controlled, then it is definitely does not seem random.  They almost always seem to fall outside the two center columns, and almost always will fall on an already filled column if possible.  In general, as the difficulty increases, my combos seem to do less damage and the opponent's seem to do more.  Is this a result of rubberband-AI at work?  After all, there is a limit to how difficult a computer-controlled player can be programmed without resorting to such nonsense (unless they just programmed it to make the optimal move as fast as possible, in which case it would be unbeatable and pointless).  So, it must be programmed to be beatable but difficult, which seems to result in these heroic nearly-impossible measures in mid-game and late-game.

FrankJones

2015-08-31 08:43:06 pm

I tried watching Yoshifan's videos but they aren't loading. Does anyone know whether they are available for viewing?