Dark Messiah of Might and Magic (DMoMM)

2009-08-02 01:57:09 am

I'm planning to do a speedrun of Dark Messiah Of Might & Magic. There were some attempts to make a speedrun of the game previously by others, but they were never finished. So I decided I will do my own!
Not completely decided yet whether I will do a SS or segmented run. With a segmented run I could use every gate trick, but with a SS that is hardly possible, because the success is too random. There shouldn't be any problems with recording, I did some test recordings and the game was still very smooth and video quality was perfect.

Anyone interested? The older thread is here is you want to read about some of the tricks: http://speeddemosarchive.com/forum/index.php/topic,4563.0.html

Thread title:

TheVoid

2009-08-02 02:43:58 am

I'm interested Smiley

If you're going to make a single-segment run, you could include some gate-tricks since some are quite easy. Unfortunately the ones that skip huge portions/levels are more tricky to pull off.

Well anyway, looking forward to any run.

eXistence

2009-08-02 03:37:34 am

The gate trick that skips chapter 8 entirely feels pretty easy, I can get it to work perhaps 50% of the time, and there are three barrels available, so three tries. The another gate trick I would like to include in a SS is in the chapter 5, that would allow me going to the crystal chamber and placing the crystal. The C5 gate feels a lot harder to do, and my success rate with it is currently too low, more practicing needed I guess Smiley

edit: Any tips for the C5 gate, seeing that it was you who first found it? Smiley

TheVoid

2009-08-02 04:17:02 am

Any kind of tips are in the other thread (From this post and onwards).

Can't really give more tips than that, I haven't played the game in ages, either Wink

Eldar

2009-08-02 04:20:15 am

I recently finished (another) run through of this game. Haven't even thought of speedrunning it before but I would definately like to see a run of DMMoM.

eXistence

2009-08-04 08:37:04 am

Started recording a segmented run today, so far I have recorded the prologue chapter, in two segments. Gate trick is of course used Smiley

abr_alex

2009-08-05 05:03:18 am

Can't wait! Cheesy

tekknej

2009-08-05 01:22:05 pm

I love YaBB 1G - SP1!

yay good news. \o/ was hoping for a segmented run first...

Inexistence

2009-08-05 02:59:29 pm

Yes, Inexistence is a word.

Hey. I've never played the game, but looking at some youtube videos with some speedrun tricks and things, it looks like it'll be a really interesting run. Good luck, I'll be sure to keep watch on the run Smiley

eXistence

2009-08-20 11:47:35 pm

Just wanted to give a quick update here. I'm currently working on the ship scene, I think it's chapter 4? Anyway, I had a little pause with the run, but I'm back and running Smiley

Pendrokar

2009-08-27 10:14:00 am

Tricks that can be pulled of in this game of course make it very intresting! Smiley

j.calling.2bad

2009-08-27 10:19:55 am

well I can't wait to see it in motion Wink

qubodup

2009-08-27 05:29:04 pm

I also am curious to see this game run through. I so far only witnessed a slow-ish Let's Play of it. I think it was only hosted on vimeo and thus now completely lost :|

Something to make you hungry for this run: http://vimeo.com/1198760 Smiley

Pendrokar

2009-08-28 06:36:18 am

I wish Oblivion was like this. Cry

Bolddrengen

2009-10-18 09:10:30 am

Is this run still active or is it dead ?

helloagain

Edit history:

helloagain: 2013-07-31 02:13:37 am

helloagain: 2013-07-30 01:44:32 pm

2013-07-30 12:32:14 pm

Hello, hello.
I love this game. I have looked into it a bit from the speedrun perspective, but yeah... I actually dont have the time, the equipment or the skill Smiley

But I want to share 2 major skips I havent found somewhere else and a little bit of sidenote.
Also I have made a few short clips showing of what I mean but they got crushed. They look in some way inverted. If someone could tell me where I could upload them. That would be nice.
I used the steam version which is 1.02.

So my notes. As a template I used this segmented speedrun .

epilogue
One small change. For the second gate trick instead of the box one could use one of the barrels beside the gate. Could save maybe 1 second.

chapter 1.1
Don't kill the cyclops. Instead run directly to the end of the level where a soldier is blocking your path with a gate. A gate trick doesnt work here, but with a lean trick the gate can be opened. Crouch in the left corner of the gate, lean left look right where the lever is and move just a bit to the right and use the lever. Not killing the cyclops should save 40 seconds.

chapter 1.2
Grab the staff at the start of the map. Shouldnt cost time cause its in front of you.
No changes beside this

chapter 2
No changes.

chapter 3.1
(I think its possible to grab the chain without first going through the house, but I am not sure.)
At the end jumping directly to the end without climbing on the "roof" after the jump through the planks. Maybe 2 seconds.

chapter 3.2
Because the cyclops got skipped one gets the Spell Charm at the start of this level which costs 3 seconds.
One could kill the first soldier with the staff until the skillpoints are rewarded.
Beside this no changes.

chapter 4
(Grab the staff from the mage if you dont have one.)
Its possible to get on the boat without getting noticed by the guard. Saves 2 seconds.
You can lean in to activate the anchor but you have also to be in this small cabine, so its useless.

chapter 5.1
This fight can be better which is pretty hard because the battlesystem/physics suck. Kick as many enemys in the spikes and maybe grab the corpses out of the spikes so the trap is "ready" again. Use the staff. Normally a powerstrike with the staff stuns an enemy even without skills. A stunned enemy can be kicked and lies on the floor. A powerstrike on a lying enemy kills it or better should. Sometimes the enemy doesnt really lie he is just yeah ... on the ground. And even when the enemy lies (there is a pretty obvious transition between the to states) only a powerstrike of the staff will kill him with 100%.
Also its possible to get an enemy on a slope where it is forbidden for him to lie and he dies instantly.
After the fight get a barrel (maybe with telekinese) and use it to climb the wall so you dont have to go through the small tunnel and drop directly in the room with the ropebow.
The next to orcs can most of the time be kicked in the flames.
Dont charm the orc wait till he is under the walltrap and activate it with the ropebow. Use the staff to kill the last orc.
In this part is a really big improvment possible.

chapter 5.2
No changes.

chapter 6
Get the first mana potion after the spider is activated. Yeah a really small thing Smiley

Its possible to kill the lich with the staff, but firearrow should be faster.
At last its possible to skip the spiderfight. On the left side in the second (?) pillar are three red cubes. I have no idea why but when the middle cube gets activated its like one got the shadowskull. Just lean in. Saves 70 seconds.

chapter 7.1
Once I got it so I could unlock the door for the room where your stuff are. I have no idea why and I cant reproduce it. But yeah its possible, somehow.
Charm one of the orcs directly when you pass them.
No real change for this.

chapter 7.2
With a ropeshot one can get to the wheel a little bit faster. When you enter the room shoot at the right pillar. The shot has to be as soon as possible or else the rope cant be climbed. Saves maybe 2 seconds.

chapter 7.3
Dont kill the enemys. With good execution the arcane robe doesnt cost any time to get. The ring is useless. A few seconds possible.

chapter 7.4
Use Sanctuary and jump of the second cart. Saves 3 seconds maybe.

chapter 7.5
Use Sanctuary and jump. 5 Seconds.

chapter 8
Faster execution maybe, but the gate tricks are so unreliable. It feels like its just luck.

chapter 9.1
The rope trick can be done on the lower wood thing directly in the middle and is pretty "easy".
Its also possible to gate trick out of the room with Percy to activate the cyclops, go back, activate percy, go again to the cyclops so ge is focused on you and then get him back to the wood roof so Percy can get to the end. This method is a little bit luckbased and I dont thing its faster. So yeah... Like in chapter 4 Percy has to be at the and of the level for the transition. Its possible to gate trick in but nothing happens and you are trapped.

chapter 9.2
No changes.

chapter 9.3
No changes.

chapter 9.4
Use Sanctuary and ignore Leanna. 15 seconds. Maybe its possible to gate trick through I just dont know.

epilogue 1
Use Sanctuary and jump. 10 Seconds.

epilogue 2
Use Sanctuary and jump in the room with the four(?) guards and run directly to the drop trap, activate the trap and all of them should be dead. Maybe 3 Seconds.
Use Sanctuary and jump all the way down.

Epilogue 3
Dont use the stairs and jump with Sanctuary down. Run to the shadowskull, stand in front of it, crouch, lean right and use the skull. Think for yourself a line where the graphic of the skull ends. Somewhere there its possible to use it.
Saves 3 minutes.

additional notes
There are enough mana potions on this route (18 I think). 8 should be enough.
I dont think that demon form is faster like its stated in the video description.
5 Minutes just with the skips and better execution could get this game down to 52 Minutes.

And here my miserable try uploading something to the internet:

chapter 6 spider fight lean skip http://www.vidup.de/v/oP7CJ/
epilogue final boss skip http://www.vidup.de/v/FS9ak/
chapter 9 rope trick http://www.vidup.de/v/s1QJW/
chapter 3.1 shortcut http://www.vidup.de/v/2B30v/
chapter 5.1 shortcut http://www.vidup.de/v/I6OKj/
chapter 9 gate trick setup http://www.vidup.de/v/EB4vm/
chapter 9 gate trick http://www.vidup.de/v/SXkKl/

Maybe someone is interested or finds this post...I dont know. A single segmented run would be awesome but the gate trick is just ridiculous.

Edit:
Dropbox with the tricks above and a few more:
https://www.dropbox.com/sh/1h76lrtuchskt9l/kGVPo56vXD

Hello, hello.
I love this game. I have looked into it a bit from the speedrun perspective, but yeah... I actually dont have the time, the equipment or the skill :)
But I want to share 2 major skips I havent found somewhere else and a little bit of sidenote.
Also I have made a few short clips showing of what I mean but they got crushed. They look in some way inverted. If someone could tell me where I could upload them. That would be nice.
I used the steam version which is 1.02.

So my notes. As a template I used this segmented speedrun http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VKPJQ6qlx2Q .

epilogue
One small change. For the second gate trick instead of the box one could use one of the barrels beside the gate. Could save maybe 1 second.

chapter 1.1
Don't kill the cyclops. Instead run directly to the end of the level where a soldier is blocking your path with a gate. A gate trick doesnt work here, but with a lean trick the gate can be opened. Crouch in the left corner of the gate, lean left look right where the lever is and move just a bit to the right and use the lever. Not killing the cyclops should save 40 seconds.

chapter 1.2
Grab the staff at the start of the map. Shouldnt cost time cause its in front of you.
No changes beside this

chapter 2
No changes.

chapter 3.1
(I think its possible to grab the chain without first going through the house, but I am not sure.)
At the end jumping directly to the end without climbing on the "roof" after the jump through the planks. Maybe 2 seconds.

chapter 3.2
Because the cyclops got skipped one gets the Spell Charm at the start of this level which costs 3 seconds.
One could kill the first soldier with the staff until the skillpoints are rewarded.
Beside this no changes.

chapter 4
(Grab the staff from the mage if you dont have one.)
Its possible to get on the boat without getting noticed by the guard. Saves 2 seconds.
You can lean in to activate the anchor but you have also to be in this small cabine, so its useless.

chapter 5.1
This fight can be better which is pretty hard because the battlesystem/physics suck. Kick as many enemys in the spikes and maybe grab the corpses out of the spikes so the trap is "ready" again. Use the staff. Normally a powerstrike with the staff stuns an enemy even without skills. A stunned enemy can be kicked and lies on the floor. A powerstrike on a lying enemy kills it or better should. Sometimes the enemy doesnt really lie he is just yeah ... on the ground. And even when the enemy lies (there is a pretty obvious transition between the to states) only a powerstrike of the staff will kill him with 100%.
Also its possible to get an enemy on a slope where it is forbidden for him to lie and he dies instantly.
After the fight get a barrel (maybe with telekinese) and use it to climb the wall so you dont have to go through the small tunnel and drop directly in the room with the ropebow.
The next to orcs can most of the time be kicked in the flames.
Dont charm the orc wait till he is under the walltrap and activate it with the ropebow. Use the staff to kill the last orc.
In this part is a really big improvment possible.

chapter 5.2
No changes.

chapter 6
Get the first mana potion after the spider is activated. Yeah a really small thing :)
Its possible to kill the lich with the staff, but firearrow should be faster.
At last its possible to skip the spiderfight. On the left side in the second (?) pillar are three red cubes. I have no idea why but when the middle cube gets activated its like one got the shadowskull. Just lean in. Saves 70 seconds.

chapter 7.1
Once I got it so I could unlock the door for the room where your stuff are. I have no idea why and I cant reproduce it. But yeah its possible, somehow.
Charm one of the orcs directly when you pass them.
No real change for this.

chapter 7.2
With a ropeshot one can get to the wheel a little bit faster. When you enter the room shoot at the right pillar. The shot has to be as soon as possible or else the rope cant be climbed. Saves maybe 2 seconds.

chapter 7.3
Dont kill the enemys. With good execution the arcane robe doesnt cost any time to get. The ring is useless. A few seconds possible.

chapter 7.4
Use Sanctuary and jump of the second cart. Saves 3 seconds maybe.

chapter 7.5
Use Sanctuary and jump. 5 Seconds.

chapter 8
Faster execution maybe, but the gate tricks are so unreliable. It feels like its just luck.

chapter 9.1
The rope trick can be done on the lower wood thing directly in the middle and is pretty "easy".
Its also possible to gate trick out of the room with Percy to activate the cyclops, go back, activate percy, go again to the cyclops so ge is focused on you and then get him back to the wood roof so Percy can get to the end. This method is a little bit luckbased and I dont thing its faster. So yeah... Like in chapter 4 Percy has to be at the and of the level for the transition. Its possible to gate trick in but nothing happens and you are trapped.

chapter 9.2
No changes.

chapter 9.3
No changes.

chapter 9.4
Use Sanctuary and ignore Leanna. 15 seconds. Maybe its possible to gate trick through I just dont know.

epilogue 1
Use Sanctuary and jump. 10 Seconds.

epilogue 2
Use Sanctuary and jump in the room with the four(?) guards and run directly to the drop trap, activate the trap and all of them should be dead. Maybe 3 Seconds.
Use Sanctuary and jump all the way down.

Epilogue 3
Dont use the stairs and jump with Sanctuary down. Run to the shadowskull, stand in front of it, crouch, lean right and use the skull. Think for yourself a line where the graphic of the skull ends. Somewhere there its possible to use it. 
Saves 3 minutes.

additional notes
There are enough mana potions on this route (18 I think). 8 should be enough.
I dont think that demon form is faster like its stated in the video description.
5 Minutes just with the skips and better execution could get this game down to 52 Minutes.

And here my miserable try uploading something to the internet:

chapter 6 spider fight lean skip	http://www.vidup.de/v/oP7CJ/
epilogue final boss skip 		        http://www.vidup.de/v/FS9ak/
chapter 9 rope trick			        http://www.vidup.de/v/s1QJW/
chapter 3.1 shortcut			http://www.vidup.de/v/2B30v/
chapter 5.1 shortcut			http://www.vidup.de/v/I6OKj/
chapter 9 gate trick setup		http://www.vidup.de/v/EB4vm/
chapter 9 gate trick			        http://www.vidup.de/v/SXkKl/

Maybe someone is interested or finds this post...I dont know. A single segmented run would be awesome but the gate trick is just ridiculous.

Edit:
Dropbox with the tricks above and a few more:
https://www.dropbox.com/sh/1h76lrtuchskt9l/kGVPo56vXD

youtl

2013-11-04 12:33:44 am

gonna bump thread since i started doing dark messiah single segment
most of these tricks are pretty solid
gateskips are doable single segment apart from the ship skip and the necromancer realm gateskip the setup seems to random.. maybe because the ground is sloped.
even doing the boat (8 mins) and the necromancer realm (7 mins) i got time down to 1:04

youtl

2013-12-28 05:51:46 am

lots of new skips credit goes to Elgu_ i think run could be as quick as 48 minutes without mistakes

AquaTiger

2013-12-28 09:46:49 am

Never give up!

8 minute savings for the boat skip and 7 minute savings for the necromancer realm skip? Wow. Just know that at that rate, the "gate glitch" is very likely to count as a separate category at this point (the "major skips" category mentioned in SDA rules).

I'll still be interested in the run with the skips, sure, but I have to wonder what a run without major skips would be like (I'll watch the videos later and get a better list of what counts in which category).

CookieExterminator

Edit history:

CookieExterminator: 2014-01-01 12:41:08 am

2013-12-31 08:17:50 am

Thanks for this Xmas gift youtl, awesome run. Sanctuary is OP Cheesy

Some words about your vid:
22:25 You can still use skip from my video (first post) with save/load for 2-3 attempts.
25:00 It is not necessary (but more risky) shoot the rope, you can jump from chain right on the edge of bridge.
50:37 Charm the Black Knight may lower risk be ganged from behind, while stealing the Skull.

Anyway good job, keep going. I believe sub 50 is possible, but also I'd like to see if someone will do single segment run.

Any plans go to AGDQ 2014 or SGDQ with DMoMM?

youtl

Edit history:

youtl: 2013-12-31 11:16:56 pm

2013-12-31 04:41:50 pm

do you mean the orc fight? i usually just charm one then do the skip sometimes it doesnt work out just because the ai goes after me also killing them could be quicker long term since it gives you 1 skill point which you can spend on stamina upgrade.

the rope shot only loses time if you miss it which i did. the jump from the chain is pretty tight and not so reliable because you may not get enough momentum (buggy ropes/chains).

i'm not sure at this point how best to grab the skull thats why it took me so long but it seems like you need to clip inside of the table to get it maybe the knight can help boost inside?

single would be pretty easy the only thing stopping that is failing jumps/skips

i wont be going to any agdq or sgdq because i live in Australia and its way to costly for me but someone did offer for agdq 2014 and it was rejected i'm not sure who offered though...
i guess i should add i that i'll probably do dark messiah for any online marathons

and if anyone was wondering about the noise at 43 mins in thats just my irc nickflash sound Smiley

do you mean the orc fight? i usually just charm one then do the skip sometimes it doesnt work out just because the ai goes after me also killing them could be quicker long term since it gives you 1 skill point which you can spend on stamina upgrade.

the rope shot only loses time if you miss it which i did. the jump from the chain is pretty tight and not so reliable because you may not get enough momentum (buggy ropes/chains).

i'm not sure at this point how best to grab the skull thats why it took me so long but it seems like you need to clip inside of the table to get it maybe the knight can help boost inside?

single would be pretty easy the only thing stopping that is failing jumps/skips

i wont be going to any agdq or sgdq because i live in Australia and its way to costly for me but someone did offer for agdq 2014 and it was rejected i'm not sure who offered though...
i guess i should add i that i'll probably do dark messiah for any online marathons

and if anyone was wondering about the noise at 43 mins in thats just my irc nickflash sound :)

CookieExterminator

2014-01-01 12:47:50 am

Whoops, wrong time, I meant 22:25, right after first gem.

youtl

Edit history:

youtl: 2014-01-01 08:42:51 am

2014-01-01 07:49:21 am

Quote:

but also I'd like to see if someone will do single segment run.

done!
its's also faster than my current wr by 4 minutes! (47:33)
http://www.twitch.tv/youtl/c/3477898
i lose some time at the beginning and overall because music slows down load times a little
i do save a couple of times but i dont load them just had them in case it turned into an RTA run Wink

youtube:

CookieExterminator

2014-01-02 01:07:40 am

Hell yeah! Congratulations! Just a few minor mistakes and time really close to perfect for this route, as for the single segment I'd say it's a real achievement. Good job.

44:58 I'm still thinking shoot fire arrow before jump will reduce few seconds, but it's a polish work, nothing more.

To greatly beat this time need new route and fresh tricks Wink

sarou

2014-01-02 01:47:37 pm

one-armed bandit

Never thought that someone would SS this game as the skips are such a pain. Having said that, great job!