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Fighting like a Warrior
Hello guys since i saw a video of sub 11 from gamej06 (Big John) playing on emulator I tough he was using turbo, but my big surprise was when i asked him and he said he was not using turbo, then i got some motivation to do the same and push my times down, so I started to understand better how the spread rithm behave, I have been doing a lot of trail and error research including comparing videos from all the top players and TAS and i start to adapt some better strats specially in level 7 Hangar. I notice there are only two patterns for the claws and i know exactly what to do in each pattern.
About the controversy of grabbing the barrier or not I personally tested both grabbing the barrier and not grabbing it, and the end result was the same i reach the claws at the end in the same time, I didn't use a timer because i cannot use wsplit in conjunction with nestopia but I used the sound as a reference and i got exactly the same sound at the same spot, I spend like half an hour seeing the differences and they were none, explaining better if you get the barrier you need to get down and take the car the way i did it in this video http://www.twitch.tv/themexicanrunner/c/2999542, but if you don't take the barrier there is a chance of jumping the second claw after the barrier to go faster, i did that and the quick kill of the car to spawn faster the following one before the jump of the "M" Weapon, and after killing and doing perfectly all the next walls I got the same pattern in the final claws so i got the following conclusion: Grabbing the barrier is easier and safer. I use to grab always the barrier because it was easier but until recently i started to question what are the best strats and that is why i have been experimenting a lot lately.
Also I discover a pause trick (Hurblat already knew about it) really useful for the claws in Hangar and for the fires in the energy zone, I tried it in different situations and in all of them is faster because a simple reason, you can manipulate the spawn of the fires/claws and that is giving you advantage of freely moving when they supposed to be on screen.

P.S. @Hurblat The first one of your above updates "The first is that turbo/auto is not considered cheating" <<<< I strongly disagree THAT IS CHEATING and shouldn't even put on consideration of not cheating.
Willing to teach you the impossible
Blat, please stop hiding strats...
Heidman: Not hiding anything. I found it, tried it a couple of times thinking it would be better than it actually is, and then never bothered again. I never even tried it in Hangar. TMR was the one who found how to put it to actual use. I had discarded it.

Deuceler: it's interesting what you say about emulator/keyboard being easier to mash with. I've never played using a keyboard myself. Added a note to the first post telling people posting their runs to include if they are using keyboard or controller when playing on emulator. At some point we should research how the difference is between controller and keyboard.

TMR: congrats on the 10:20! Smiley I still stand by the "not considered cheating". If someone wants to use turbo, and is open about doing that, I see no reason why they shouldn't be allowed to post their times. Albeit in a separate table. The more people playing this game the better, in my opinion.
Edit history:
Heidrage: 2013-09-28 12:21:18 pm
Willing to teach you the impossible
Bring any new idea to others, let them play with it to see if they can use it, the same way TMR was able to do.
My intent is always to bring all new improvements to the table, as I'm sure you know. I am, after all, taking care of this thread.
As I said I had discarded the idea of the pausing being useful after only a few tries. It didn't occur to me as being useful, and hence I didn't use it. Moving on though, I will make sure to post about even the smallest of findings. Thanks for your feedback!
Fighting like a Warrior
New PB guys 10:14: http://www.twitch.tv/themexicanrunner/c/3003494
Well that escalated quickly! Congrats!
SPEEDruns not SAFEruns
Damn TMR, congrats man! Hurblat - get back to work Cheesy

I will try to get on making a video comparison between the two if at all possible when I come home (which isn't until October 9th), I need to regain focus on this game and start doing runs once again. I know I could get down into the sub 10:30 range relatively easily, just need to hammer it out. GL on going for WR TMR, I know you are gonna try
Master-88
Okay TMR next go bought this cart your NES and start SDA attempts, its time to go sub 10:10 next goal.

Yeah awesome time man. Nothing else can,t say.
Hi guys, I just wanted to say that TMR helped me a lot with the game and I'm now at 11:41. I do have a video, but I'll try to post a better run because I died twice in lv8 in that PB. Smiley
sinister1
so pro u don't even know
Grats to TMR on all his recent PBs. I hope you get this game for NES tho TMR, would really like to see console runs soon.
Edit history:
Joka: 2013-10-03 09:50:42 am
Personal text
Dang TMR..!

Get the NES cart..

Smiley
Hi there, I shaved a lot of time on my PB and I'm now at 11:15 here is the twitch video : http://www.twitch.tv/remzlab/c/3044309
Fighting like a Warrior
Congrats Remz Keep up the good Work and welcome to the community
Good stuff Remz! Leaderboard is updated.
Also congratulations to TMR on his 10:12!
thanks guys! I'm now heading for sub 11. I just discovered a really crazy strat tonight that could save a lot of time on the WR while TMR was watching me. Since I'm not sure how it will turn out, i'll just wait until TMR try it a little bit more. Maybe it's too hard to get...
Could you explain this strat, Remz? Or do you have a video of it?
Fighting like a Warrior
Answering to you Hurblat, basically on the boss of base 2 is trying to kill it in one cycle both heads, not the TAS way because that is crazy, but the odds for that happening is really hard, I haven't tested it yet but in a few hours i will, and I will make sure to do a highlight once I get it. As far as i know it should be only two possible ways of doing this, with a spread of 5 bullets standing under any Head and with a spread of 3 bullets standing at the middle of the screen.
The Pros and Cons:
- The Pros for the One Cycle Double glitch is that in theory well executed you should be able to save 3-5 seconds (estimate)
- The Cons are that while you have like 6/60 chances in the spread rithm casual way (only one head), in this new way will be something like 2/60 or 3/60 (chances of getting both heads) which is less than the half from the casual way which ends up being time consuming annoying as hell until not finding a cool safe strat.
Fighting like a Warrior
Here it is Hurblat, it end up being better being in the middle and jump shooting twiceon air: http://www.twitch.tv/themexicanrunner/c/3047213
Hi guys, after you explanation of today TMR (thanks for that) I would like to know what you think about the way i got it in the last 15 seconds of this highlight : http://www.twitch.tv/remzlab/c/3045325 it seems really different that the setup you were showing me. I might be totally wrong. Just let me know what you guys think of it.
Yes
Hi,

  Sorry I've been noticeably absent from this thread.  I've started a graduate program and it's eating up my time.  So here are a few quick updates:

-Great job everyone for all of your hard work and I never expected the leaderboard to fill up so fast with so many good times
-Congrats to TMR on 11:14.  That is an incredible time.

On to strats

-That is a good barrier pickup in Hangar and it looks like it may be faster than the strat used in the 10:11 SDA run, but it isn't faster than what's done in the theory TAS because the SDA run misses a cycle on the claws.  I will time it out later this week


-Base 2 boss strat does save time, but I concluded it wasn't worth it and I excluded it from the theory TAS.  This is the full strat:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_embedded&v=BynasCgSm7Y


Reproducing this consistently:
It's pure luck if you're trying to hit both heads by mashing.  If you memorize the amount of time it is between destroying the last core and when you can shoot up, that's a kind of cue.  The time between when you need to shoot and when the last core explodes is consistent every time and it is approximately one second.  Having said that, it's not an audio or a visual cue, so getting it is kind of nuts. 


Why it's not recommended
It doesn't save as much time as you think.  The current strat kills the first head immediately and gets into position to kill the left head while the other one is split apart.  You're not saving a full cycle, you're killing both heads at the end of the first cycle instead of the beginning of the second.  Given the amount of fatigue that running this game induces and the amount of time it saves, you are better off investing your effort elsewhere.  That's not to say don't try for it, but I feel like you'll get a better run overall by focusing on other strats.

Thoughts on the new strat
Killing the turret at the top is probably the hardest part of the current strat.  It's cool to see that you can kill the turret later and destroy both heads before they come back together.  While the strat is much more consistent if you get in the shot afterward, it ultimately takes more time to kill both heads and that sacrifices some of the time advantage

I'll start giving a more precise answer in terms of the amount of time saved/lost with each strat later this week.

-Other time savers
TODO.  There are improvements to snow field and energy zone.
Edit history:
Heidrage: 2013-10-07 03:26:50 pm
Willing to teach you the impossible
This has been explored if the past by Mayor K. I never mentioned it because he wanted to keep it out of the public for what ever reason. But since yall found it I will explain it proper. And FYI, this is was called the Mayor K strat.

In order for this to save time, you have to stand in mid and hit both heads as TMR did in his highlight. The issue with it is that there is no visual or audio cue at all. Audio is based on when you kill the last core...................

K... You beat me...

Edit: I told K that I refused to use it due to the risk reward factor. I chose to get the glitch on one head and save my sanity. If yall can get something consistent, More power to you. But I will not use this unless I am TASing.
Thanks for your comments guys! What i'm starting to think is that if you keep shooting always at the exact same speed after the last  button kill, it is possible to get the glitch based on other thing than luck and it seems to help me getting the glitch more often.
http://www.twitch.tv/themexicanrunner/c/3049295 Here is the new WR! Smiley Congrats coach!
Fighting like a Warrior
@Mr. K Thanks for the explanation, i did both ways and they end up being the same for me with my strats, i completely agree with you that is not recomended but if you look what remz did is cool to consider. I trust your resarch overall. In the other hand @Heidraige I completely agree with you for sanity purposes i said the same to Remz even if is faster still is crazy to execute so i stayed with my old strats.