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TheVoid
TheVoid
Edit history:
TheVoid: 2010-06-13 02:06:36 am
2010-05-03 08:18:34 am
Ah, another project. Well, quite some time ago I was already thinking of running this one so now I decided to just start with it. These runs will be done on the Normal difficulty because some levels aren't too funny to do, especially not on Brutal.
There's an older thread about this game with some times for China and GLA. I don't know on which difficulty they were done but they can be easily improved as far as I've checked.

Timing starts when you gain control (When the cursor shows up) and stops when you lose control (When either the "You are victorious" sign shows up or when the end cutscene kicks in).

China 1    1:30    TheVoid
China 2       
China 3    3:17    IsraeliRD
China 4       
China 5    3:51    IsraeliRD
China 6    1:32    TheVoid
China 7    4:23    Nihilus
[hr][hr][hr]
GLA 1    3:01    TheVoid
GLA 2   
GLA 3   
GLA 4    3:57    IsraeliRD
GLA 5   
GLA 6    1:34    TheVoid
GLA 7    4:51    TheVoid
[hr][hr][hr]
USA 1   
USA 2   
USA 3    6:44    TheVoid
USA 4   
USA 5   
USA 6    2:58    TheVoid
USA 7   
Thread title:  
MortyreR45
(user is banned)
MortyreR45
Edit history:
MortyreR45: 2013-05-27 10:12:54 pm
2010-05-03 08:28:15 am
I AM FUCKED ANGRY
interesting , I search for a new copy of this game. my old copy was broken.

do this run to the end Kiss
TheVoid
2010-05-03 03:19:21 pm
I've added another one to the table, GLA 1 in 3:01 (Check the first post).
IsraeliRD
2010-05-03 06:42:37 pm
Dragon Power Supreme
I'm totally looking forwards to this run, and all the best of luck on it!

GLA 1:
- Good job having that technical run over the red guards at the start
- No time lost for targetting the barracks after the first nuclear reactor before going on the 2nd
- Good job with the bomb trucks, don't really think you can improve the mission.

GLA 6:
- Are you serious on me they never attack the trucks? Wow. Great find, flawless execution.


I'm curious as to which patch are you using. AFAIK up to patch 1.4 everything else is just multiplayer stuff.
Remainder of patch notes:
1.4:

- Tunnel Network build speed increased from 5 seconds to 20 seconds.
- Marauder hit points increased from 430 to 490.
- Stealth Fighter hit points increased from 120 to 140.
- Explosion damage done by Chinese Nuke Tanks when they are destroyed is reduced from 25 to 10.
- Nuke Cannon changed so it moves the same speed when damaged, not faster.
- Aurora speed increased from 90 to 120 after it drops its bomb. Damaged speed increased from 60 to 120.

1.5:
US BARRACKS EXPLOIT: Lowered the number of Rangers that appear after a US Barracks is destroyed.
GLA FAST BUILD BUG: Fixed exploit that allowed multiple Workers to speed structure build times.
GENERAL BALANCING ISSUES:
- Bug fixed in MiG damage code where upgraded napalm did too much damage to targets.
- GLA Bomb truck health up from 220 to 250.
- Worker health up from 100 to 140.
- Tunnel Network gun damage increased from 10 per shot to 15 per shot.
- Overlord build time increased from 20 to 25 seconds.
- Scorpion Tank now builds in 10 seconds instead of 14.
- GLA Arms Dealer build up time decreased from 50 to 40 seconds (ini seconds, not game seconds.)
- Tunnel Network Build Time improved from 20 seconds to 15 seconds (ini seconds, not game seconds

1.6:
SCUD STORM ANTHRAX BETA BUG - GLA's Scud Storm now has the correct damage radius when upgraded with Anthrax Beta.
CHINA GATTLING TANK BUG - China's Gattling Tank now correctly moves slower when it is damaged.
GENERAL BALANCING ISSUES:
- China's Gattling weapons now require Line of Sight to fire.
- China's MiG cost increased from 1000 to 1200.
- China's MiG Armor cost increased from 500 to 1000.
- US's Cold Fusion Reactor Control Rod upgrade cost decreased from 800 to 500.

1.7:
FORCE FIRE - CHINA's Gattling Tanks can no longer force fire through buildings.
RALLY POINTS - Added rally points to the GLA Tunnel Networks.


From ZH I know there were a few bugs that were addressed in 1.03 but I'm not sure if they existed in Generals. I'm pretty sure they do so it's worth a check.
- Capturing nuclear/cold fusion reactors as GLA allows you to build everything a lot faster (buildings/units).
- SCUD Storm exploit: allows you to launch SCUD Storms as much as you want instead of being limited to once every 5 ingame minutes. This exploit also works on: gattling towers and patriot missiles.
- Burton being able to knife-attack aircraft (and thus destroy them)
TheVoid
2010-05-03 11:51:38 pm
Quote from IsraeliRD:
- Are you serious on me they never attack the trucks? Wow. Great find, flawless execution.

Yeah they never attack them Smiley You're supposed to use them and blow up their base a bit to stall them. I guess the developers weren't aware that you can blow up their ENTIRE base right away...

Quote:
I'm curious as to which patch are you using. AFAIK up to patch 1.4 everything else is just multiplayer stuff.

I'm using v1.7.

Quote:
- Capturing nuclear/cold fusion reactors as GLA allows you to build everything a lot faster (buildings/units).

Interesting, but I don't think it'll be very useful in a speedrun of these GLA levels. Only possible one would be GLA 5, but once you could capture them it's already useless...

Quote:
- SCUD Storm exploit: allows you to launch SCUD Storms as much as you want instead of being limited to once every 5 ingame minutes. This exploit also works on: gattling towers and patriot missiles.

I know the SCUD Storm one works, but not very useful for a speedrun. Except maybe in GLA 5 though I'm not sure right now if the SCUD Storm is available in that level, I don't think so actually.

Quote:
- Burton being able to knife-attack aircraft (and thus destroy them)

Heh Smiley Nice, but again I doubt it's very useful.
IsraeliRD
2010-05-04 08:06:23 am
Dragon Power Supreme
Wouldn't the SCUD storm be useful on GLA 7? That one you can easily tech-up fast (the palace can get some protection with jarmen/4 RPG Troopers) and get rid of both US and Chinese bases, unless you plan on getting a technical and capture the missile really fast?
What about China 7?

Could the reactors be used in US/China missions? You can definitely capture a barracks or an arms dealer to use GLA's own units against them (cheaper too) and might be worth the time.

GLA3/4 is just slow and boring; all the best on it but its pretty easy. Force attacking a tunnel network should cause the RPG Troopers to immediately follow suit and attack as well; might speed things up a little when you spam them.
TheVoid
TheVoid
Edit history:
TheVoid: 2010-05-04 05:13:58 pm
2010-05-04 10:22:35 am
Quote from IsraeliRD:
Wouldn't the SCUD storm be useful on GLA 7? That one you can easily tech-up fast (the palace can get some protection with jarmen/4 RPG Troopers) and get rid of both US and Chinese bases, unless you plan on getting a technical and capture the missile really fast?

I've got a different strategy for this one, wait and see Wink

Quote:
What about China 7?

Hmm, didn't it only work when you were GLA and then capture a Reactor from either China or USA?
Or do you mean in China 7 to take over their Barracks and then take over your own China Reactor or something? Is that even possible? Smiley
I don't know yet, haven't looked into it but will do when I start working on those campaigns. Hope it works.

Quote:
GLA3/4 is just slow and boring; all the best on it but its pretty easy. Force attacking a tunnel network should cause the RPG Troopers to immediately follow suit and attack as well; might speed things up a little when you spam them.

GLA 2 and 3 are very boring. I had in mind a Quad rush on GLA 4 (8 Quads can do the job, maybe even 7), building them takes a little while though. RPG Troopers might be a good option, I'll check it out.

EDIT: I've checked the RPG Troopers in GLA 4, it's too slow and too weak. Building 6 Quads and taking the one that's already there along with them is all you need Smiley And also then just keep building Quads and pour them into the base.

EDIT: I've decided to run China 6, they all need to be done sometime anyway Wink Time is 2:38 (Check first post).
This game has a mass amount of movement retardation. China 6 is actually an extremely easy level, but due to the movement retardation it proved more troublesome to get done.
IsraeliRD
2010-05-04 08:10:51 pm
Dragon Power Supreme
Quote from TheVoid:
I've got a different strategy for this one, wait and see Wink

Looking forwards to it.

Quote:
Hmm, didn't it only work when you were GLA and then capture a Reactor from either China or USA?
Or do you mean in China 7 to take over their Barracks and then take over your own China Reactor or something? Is that even possible? Smiley
I don't know yet, haven't looked into it but will do when I start working on those campaigns. Hope it works.


I thought it worked both ways, I know I've used to do it like many others on multiplayer. What I thought about China 7 is to get Lotus into the city (around Jarmen in the watchtower) and capturing a supply stash, an arms dealer and a palace and going SCUD storm glitching. I do remember the starting GLA had the first two structures, so you can just capture them and tech up to palace and SCUD storm.

Quote:
EDIT: I've checked the RPG Troopers in GLA 4, it's too slow and too weak. Building 6 Quads and taking the one that's already there along with them is all you need Smiley And also then just keep building Quads and pour them into the base.

Sounds good to me.

Quote:
EDIT: I've decided to run China 6, they all need to be done sometime anyway Wink Time is 2:38 (Check first post).
This game has a mass amount of movement retardation. China 6 is actually an extremely easy level, but due to the movement retardation it proved more troublesome to get done.


All C&C games starting from Generals have had this stupid movements of units.
Regarding the video, loved the strategy used (I've done it myself on this mission) and I don't think it can really go faster. I experimented with the the Angry Mobs trigger by going through the other side of the river (it skips the triggered cutscene) but I ended up 25 seconds slower than you.

I remember one of the china missions (4?) had you destroying a dam and then going after the GLA. I recall being able to cross the river before the dam gets destroyed--if you won't destroy it, the GLA will. The timing is really close but it might be possible to pass some troops and finish the mission faster?

Don't forget the China 1 shortcut Wink
TheVoid
2010-05-05 01:41:42 am
Quote from IsraeliRD:
I thought it worked both ways, I know I've used to do it like many others on multiplayer. What I thought about China 7 is to get Lotus into the city (around Jarmen in the watchtower) and capturing a supply stash, an arms dealer and a palace and going SCUD storm glitching. I do remember the starting GLA had the first two structures, so you can just capture them and tech up to palace and SCUD storm.

Sounds like a plan.

Quote from IsraeliRD:
I remember one of the china missions (4?) had you destroying a dam and then going after the GLA. I recall being able to cross the river before the dam gets destroyed--if you won't destroy it, the GLA will. The timing is really close but it might be possible to pass some troops and finish the mission faster?

Yeah that's possible but your little troop will be wiped out by their units and guard towers near their base, not very useful.
By the way, it's funny that the GLA will destroy the dam themselves, they're killing/destroying their own stuff!

Quote:
Don't forget the China 1 shortcut Wink

You mean skipping the Mig cutscene? Damn, I thought it would be a nice surprise when I would show the run Wink Unless you're just talking about the path on the left up the mountain, then damn I spoiled something Grin
IsraeliRD
IsraeliRD
Edit history:
IsraeliRD: 2010-05-05 09:35:33 am
2010-05-05 07:53:45 am
Dragon Power Supreme
Quote from TheVoid:
Yeah that's possible but your little troop will be wiped out by their units and guard towers near their base, not very useful.

Damn, I thought it would speed things up.

Quote from TheVoid:
it's funny that the GLA will destroy the dam themselves, they're killing/destroying their own stuff!

That ^ and the fact that they have some affinity to dams (GLA 1, China 3, USA 4).

Quote from TheVoid:
You mean skipping the Mig cutscene?

YOU DID WHAT?! DO CHINA 1 NEXT! How did you ever skip that cutscene? I was thinking of the mountain shortcut but holy!!! (you're going to use the dragon tanks to get rid of the chemical bunkers right?)


Edit: I just remembered USA 4's starting GLA should have a SCUD Storm option-- I know the northern GLA base will go SCUD Storm regardless, but I cannot remember if the one on the right can (99% sure they can). If the base to the right has this ability, we can already see how this mission is going to end.
I'm attaching the replay file for china 3 (I quit a while after so don't bother to keep watching much) but at least it shows the troops getting down there. My first mines placement was crap, so I obviously need to draw out the units better. I'll try this again now.

Edit 2: I've attempted China 3 and I got 3 red guards, 2 dragon tanks and 2 battlemasters through (lost lotus somehow, oops). Now, I need to find a way to draw out the masses of scorpion tanks into a level 2 artillery + mines, which will remove most of the scorpions tanks which pose the problem. Then the mission becomes simple.

Edit 3:
I DID IT I BEAT THEM check out the replay file!!! I got a dragon tank, 2 battlemasters, the DOZER and LOTUS (yes, I screwed up the dozer, big time sorry but it crossed in time). I used the dozer to get some quick stuff up and didn't really managed to do the defense I wanted (2-3 gattling cannons as defense) BUT I got lotus capturing the ENTIRE BASE, thus ending the mission. I was really slow, I can't remember any hotkeys whatsoever but I did it =D ~6:18 final time.

Edit 4: A suggestion would be to get one red guard to the left to get the dozer and get it to build a reactor/CC and then use the 2nd dozer to get the defense across the river; I'm sure you can refine this strategy a lot better.
Attachment:
China3PWNED.rep
TheVoid
TheVoid
Edit history:
TheVoid: 2010-05-05 01:45:58 pm
2010-05-05 10:39:57 am
Haha, very nice Smiley
But I think that can be done even simpler. Only take Black Lotus to the other side and start building the Command Center on top and the Airport (Requires a few buildings though but I think you can do that faster than the method you used). Fly with 1 airplane to reveal the area and use the bombardment stuff and then take over their buildings. When you fly there the enemy will come for you so it also lures some enemies away.

Nice one.

About China 1, the cutscene skip is extremely easy, and yes I use the Dragon Tanks to destroy the chemical bunker. They move a bit faster than infantry and there are only 3 of them so they won't get in the way of each other too much (They still do though, it's another of those movement retardation levels with a long cutscene before it...).

EDIT: Even better, there's no need for an Airport because Black Lotus has a far range Smiley

EDIT: I've made a run in 4:01 (Check first post). Black Lotus got a bit damaged so she walked a tad slower I think. Probably a bit more aggressiveness on capturing the buildings is doable Wink And I think the bombardment could destroy both the anti-air defense building and the Arms Dealer, that would be cool.
IsraeliRD
IsraeliRD
Edit history:
IsraeliRD: 2010-05-05 10:36:54 pm
2010-05-05 06:59:52 pm
Dragon Power Supreme
That is absolutely shattering. Lotus definitely can go faster and you can probably have the arms dealer completely destroyed; won't it trigger the GLA to create a new one, however?
Maybe wait for the dam cutscene first before capturing buildings so that lotus doesn't get as damages as in your video? I'll try out something in my head and edit the post if successful or not.

Also, I'm running through pre-set save missions I found on C&C Files so I have all missions but I can't tell if its easy, medium or hard. Can you send me your save files for Normal? Thanks.


Edit:
I'm adding 2 replay files. China Attempt 5 is 3:22, China Attempt 6 is 3:39 due to lag during cutscene and the fact I totally screwed up blowing up the dam early (10 secs wasted right there, as it should blow like as soon as artillery is set). Otherwise it'd be 3:22 as well.
Blowing up the Arms Dealer seems impossible.

Your choice of route, I prefer the first one (attempt #5) but the second one MIGHT be faster so it's worth doing both.
Attachments:
China3Attempt5.rep
China3Attempt6.rep
TheVoid
TheVoid
Edit history:
TheVoid: 2010-05-06 05:01:10 am
2010-05-06 12:59:30 am
Nice strategy, good thing about pulling out those workers to repair the buildings, keeps the enemy occupied.
Seems to me that Attempt 5 was better, because in 6 you first move to the Supply Center all the way in the back, but then again maybe it doesn't matter too much since you need to go there anyway, hmm.
Using the car to transport Black Lotus also crossed my mind.

The saves are attached.

EDIT: Made a run of China 1 in 1:40. Straightforward level Smiley
Attachment:
Saves.zip
IsraeliRD
2010-05-06 07:10:49 am
Dragon Power Supreme
Nice stuff as always. Could a firewall be a tad faster?
TheVoid
2010-05-06 08:27:52 am
Quote from IsraeliRD:
Could a firewall be a tad faster?

I did some tests and it seems to be about the same. They start firing slower with a Firewall as they need to get closer to the target point but it does a bit greater damage, so it evens out with a normal attack which is done from a greater distance.
edman3d
2010-05-06 11:45:46 am
ow
Sweet. This game is probably tied for my favorite RTS along with Red Alert 2 and Yuri's Revenge combo. Keep em coming Void.
TheVoid
2010-05-07 09:44:56 am
Made the run of GLA 7 in 6:14, now you can see the strategy IsraeliRD Wink

It could technically be done a tad faster so that both buildings get taken over at the same time (There was about a 2 seconds difference in this run). Taking over the Cosmodrome is the main tricky part, as you can see this was an extremely close call 8)
IsraeliRD
IsraeliRD
Edit history:
IsraeliRD: 2010-05-07 09:50:48 pm
2010-05-07 05:17:47 pm
Dragon Power Supreme
Neat strategy there! There seemed to be 4 seconds of difference, however, according to the YouTube player.

Would capturing the strategy centre be better? @ Bombardment mode its cannon has a limited range, so you could pull USA to the front (SC) instead of worrying about the control centre once the SC kills the rebels.

Another way of doing it is:
- Tell rebel to capture cosmodrone
- Tell rebel to capture CC
- Tell rebel to attack SC
- Tell remainder of revels to capture SC

This way by the time the rebel capturing the CC will have its camouflage removed you'll have one attacking the SC and getting USA to attack it, then tons other capturing the SC. This will make it easier on you and probably capture everything faster.

Nonetheless great job and well executed.


Edit: I had a strat that didn't work out at all Tongue Also, I confirmed that if you capture a cold fusion reactor it doesn't seem to speed up the building time (tried it on the Palace) so that's out.

Edit 2: I just realized you could activate your rebel spawn earlier and let the camouflage finish while they're in the base. This way you can send a rebel up to the cosmodrone a few seconds earlier. The cost? The SC will bombard you nearly instantly, so the rebels should be on the move towards the SC before they'll all get killed. You don't need many anyway to capture.
TheVoid
2010-05-08 03:53:53 am
I've improved GLA 7 to 6:05 Smiley

I thought, why do it so difficult with capturing the Strategy Center and such? I just rushed 1 guy to the Missile, and the rest to the Cosmodrome. Then I started taking over the buildings at the same time and the other group at the Cosmodrome waits for enemies to appear and then I'll just distract them and give the other guy enough time to capture the building. You actually can't do it faster than that.

I could've still deployed the Rebels just a tad faster (At least 1 second...) and maybe I can already start capturing the Cosmodrome while the other guy runs to the Missile. I'm not sure about that because of enemy forces around (The tanks and such near their Supply Drop below).

Ah well, managed to chop off 9 seconds at least Smiley
dballin
2010-05-08 08:07:39 am
Balls jerky
Hey are we finally gonna get a run of a C&C game?!? I support this run in full even if it is Generals... Wink I wish I could help with planning but the only one I'm less familiar with is Renegade.
TheVoid
2010-05-09 05:00:31 pm
Alright, did USA 3 in 9:06.

Pretty good run.
Only possible thing to improve would be destroying the Rocket Buggy's in the end, but some of those guys always escape, they're too fast Smiley I could've put my other units a bit closer-by though.

Rocket Barrage rules all!
IsraeliRD
2010-05-09 05:18:04 pm
Dragon Power Supreme
Definitely a good run (love rocket barrage blowing everything up), but imo the rocket buggies can definitely be killed off faster.
Nihilus
2010-05-09 10:51:29 pm
Love the runs so far. Those last rocket buggies can be killed by spreading out the commanches a bit so they don't all waste their missiles on the same one. Spread them out in a line leading about half way up the road, then bring them back once the buggies are dead. I also like to build patriot turrets all over the place on this level, but I dunno if it would be faster or not.

Thanks for getting me into this game again! I'd love to help out. Lemme know which levels seem like they will be hardest, and I can start grinding them for strategies.
IsraeliRD
2010-05-10 06:42:59 am
Dragon Power Supreme
Agreed with Nihilus and I wanted to attempt a run as well because I do a bit different build order than you when I usually play this mission. I also took Nihilus's suggestion to get some patriot missiles because they are seriously effective against the slow moving GLA.
Anyway, what really pushed me to attempt this mission was my memory of being used to finish the level in three rounds regardless of difficulty setting, so seeing it in four rounds made me wonder whether I miscounted or it was a mod I was playing.

End result (7:08 minutes) is in the replay file, find attached. It was on my very first attempt too, so I'll have higher expectations to see an even faster time from you.

1st round:
38 (you: 36 [you lost 2 units])

2nd round:
82 (you: 68)

3rd round:
106 (you: 94)

Two main points:
- Weirdness on 2nd round of troops (could this be due to me doing 100% on the first round or is this random?)
- My ending could've been 2-3 seconds faster had I gotten my final set of Commanches launching rockets in a better position and come in 2 secs earlier (in fact, usage of A-10 would have been great too, so it should be done). More GLA units would be destroyed faster that way.

Also: glitched patriot missile range FTW!!
Attachment:
USA3_7'08.rep
TheVoid
TheVoid
Edit history:
TheVoid: 2010-05-10 09:48:35 am
2010-05-10 08:29:09 am
Very nice!

I was already wondering if 3 rounds was possible, that sure saves a lot of time Smiley

One thing though, your grounds units were blocking the retreating units sometimes, so I was thinking that it's better to position them in those side paths and then quickly throw them on the road after the retreating units have passed.

You mean the tech upgrade A-10 target bombing thingy? Yeah that could be used as well.

EDIT: Indeed some random factor seems to be involved. I just had 100% rounds and I ended round 3 with 98. Unless I missed that a few soldiers were killed somehow...

Using the A-10 is a bit tricky since it needs time to show up.

EDIT: I just had a 6:57 attempt with 101 saved, and the A-10 showed up during the ending cutscene, heh Smiley Must deploy it much earlier! I think you need to use it about the moment the first retreating unit disappears, maybe a tad later...

Round 1: 36
Round 2: 77
Round 3: 101

I always have 36 in the first round...

The funny thing is that I count about 25 retreating units in the first round, and yet 36 are saved Smiley Odd, maybe tanks count for 2 or something?

EDIT: Haha, that's pretty neat. I managed to stall the level Smiley I blocked the entrance where the retreating units come from with Nuclear Reactors and Patriot Missiles. Some of them clipped through the buildings and some just stopped moving. The retreating groups kept coming when others left the field and in the end I saved 149 of them. Only at that time the enemy group showed up and when I destroyed them the level didn't end.