Command & Conquer: Generals

2010-05-18 11:15:51 pm

Approved!

Nihilus666 9:54 pm
(21:54:52): hey mike, we were wondering if a certain glitch in C&C Generals would be allowed
(21:56:03): you can use ctrl+F1 to save a map point to zoom back to, but for some reason if you keep playing the same map without exiting the program, you can still hit F1 to go back to that point, even though you technically didn't set it
mikwuyma 10:00 pm
(22:00:39): I'm confused as to what the significance of this glitch is?
Nihilus666 10:01 pm
(22:01:29): you can save map points ahead of time, like just start the level and set them, then restart the level, start recording, and they're already set to jump to, even though they weren't set during that playthrough
(22:02:12): so it speeds things up with the huge ammount of micromanaging in this game, getting around the map would be as quick as can be
mikwuyma 10:02 pm
(22:02:33): I guess for a segmented run or ILs that's fine
Nihilus666 10:03 pm
(22:03:16): ok cool, we're doing IL's
(22:03:36): not sure if it would even work to ss the whole game, as loading different levels might erase them

I just tried it with different maps, and it tries to jump to that same location on the other map, or jumps to a corner if the map is smaller. Then, it still works for the original map again.

Set waypoints by holding ALT, and it doesn't work when clicking on the map (lost a lot of good MiGs that way), it has to be the ground itself.

Approved! 
[spoiler]Nihilus666 9:54 pm
(21:54:52):     hey mike, we were wondering if a certain glitch in C&C Generals would be allowed
(21:56:03):     you can use ctrl+F1 to save a map point to zoom back to, but for some reason if you keep playing the same map without exiting the program, you can still hit F1 to go back to that point, even though you technically didn't set it
mikwuyma 10:00 pm
(22:00:39):     I'm confused as to what the significance of this glitch is?
Nihilus666 10:01 pm
(22:01:29):     you can save map points ahead of time, like just start the level and set them, then restart the level, start recording, and they're already set to jump to, even though they weren't set during that playthrough
(22:02:12):     so it speeds things up with the huge ammount of micromanaging in this game, getting around the map would be as quick as can be
mikwuyma 10:02 pm
(22:02:33):     I guess for a segmented run or ILs that's fine
Nihilus666 10:03 pm
(22:03:16):     ok cool, we're doing IL's
(22:03:36):     not sure if it would even work to ss the whole game, as loading different levels might erase them[/spoiler]

I just tried it with different maps, and it tries to jump to that same location on the other map, or jumps to a corner if the map is smaller. Then, it still works for the original map again.

Set waypoints by holding ALT, and it doesn't work when clicking on the map (lost a lot of good MiGs that way), it has to be the ground itself.

IsraeliRD

2010-05-19 03:07:23 am

Dragon Power Supreme

Epic. This sure will come in handy in some other missions imo.

I had enough of this mission. Got three times the same end time and then I finally beat it.

Everything finally went as I wanted. God this was annoying. Everything had to screw up in one way or another and it's annoying.
Find the replay attached to this post so you can massively enjoy this and I've saved the video files on my computer (recorded live Smiley

). I'll encode with Anri once we're done with this speedrun.

Mission is timed from the moment I gain control (cursor appears) until I lose control (you are victorious screen).

TheVoid, please update first post Smiley

Attachment:

ChinaAttempt11-3'51Minutes-NormalDifficulty.rep

TheVoid

2010-05-19 04:39:00 am

Very nice man, Dragon Tanks FTW! Wink

About the timing, yeah it's better until you lose control which isn't always when the "You are victorious" sign shows up. So I guess I need to retime some levels.
Also made a bit more fancy table in the first post Smiley

Nihilus

Edit history:

Nihilus: 2010-05-19 06:44:47 am

2010-05-19 06:03:27 am

Beautiful! I just nailed mine too! Yaay! About 13 seconds faster than what was posted before. Found and used another little glitch, when continuing a mission by exiting and hitting 'play again', NOT the 'restart' button in the ESC menu, your Promotion rank is kept. This is useful for this mission because the artillery takes awhile to get where it's going, and this way it's not the thing I have to wait on to win. If this isn't allowed, I can redo it, but it's my understanding that doing IL's means stacking every advantage possible for the best time.

The champion of this most recent success? ANTHRAX BETA! Right again about that one IsraeliRD, it actually doesn't take as long as I thought to research and it guarantees I win in 6 shots, so 3 shots from each SCUD storm which build simultaneously. A very small number of seconds could be squeezed out of this, but a lot of random things went right so I'm keeping it for now. Only big improvement I can think of would be to revert to an older version when multiple workers could build something faster, which may or may not be preferred since that would cost extra money and I cut that extremely close. SCUD glitch might not work also.

timing by control it seems to be 4:35. I think I'm gunna do USA6 next. I love commandoing with Burton.

Beautiful! I just nailed mine too! Yaay! About 13 seconds faster than what was posted before. Found and used another little glitch, when continuing a mission by exiting and hitting 'play again', NOT the 'restart' button in the ESC menu, your Promotion rank is kept. This is useful for this mission because the artillery takes awhile to get where it's going, and this way it's not the thing I have to wait on to win. If this isn't allowed, I can redo it, but it's my understanding that doing IL's means stacking every advantage possible for the best time.

The champion of this most recent success? ANTHRAX BETA! Right again about that one IsraeliRD, it actually doesn't take as long as I thought to research and it guarantees I win in 6 shots, so 3 shots from each SCUD storm which build simultaneously. A very small number of seconds could be squeezed out of this, but a lot of random things went right so I'm keeping it for now. Only big improvement I can think of would be to revert to an older version when multiple workers could build something faster, which may or may not be preferred since that would cost extra money and I cut that extremely close. SCUD glitch might not work also.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=q1tqoMpRhQA timing by control it seems to be 4:35. I think I'm gunna do USA6 next. I love commandoing with Burton.

Attachment:

china 7 fastest.rep

TheVoid

2010-05-19 07:04:51 am

Personally I don't agree with the Promotion rank and screen position tricks, feels very cheap, especially the Promotion. But if Mike allows it then so be it.

Shall update the first post with your time.

IsraeliRD

Edit history:

IsraeliRD: 2010-05-19 09:08:18 am

2010-05-19 07:06:17 am

Dragon Power Supreme

That's great stuff man, I love it. I don't really see anything more to improve in here. And the second glitch is very interesting, could come in very handy.

Edit: TheVoid posted while I was posting heh *reads*.
Although TheVoid does raise a good point, its a game-glitch, just like the SCUD Storm glitch. Better ask Mike though, to be 100% sure.

2nd Edit:
The video of 3:51 on YouTube:

ExplodingCabbage

Edit history:

ExplodingCabbage: 2010-05-19 01:17:09 pm

2010-05-19 01:08:55 pm

Quote from Nihilus:

Found and used another little glitch, when continuing a mission by exiting and hitting 'play again', NOT the 'restart' button in the ESC menu, your Promotion rank is kept.

Hmm. I would advise you to PM Mike and get a ruling on whether this is allowed; it feels iffy to me because (if I'm understanding you correctly) it requires you to preplay the mission in order to get up to the desired rank before you choose Play Again. I know that glitches and exploits involving preplaying have been allowed before (like the replay glitch in GTA 3), but those were much more minor both in terms of the amount of preplaying required and the impact on gameplay. To be honest, my gut feeling is that this ought not to be allowed (sorry), but of course it's up to Mike.

Edit: Lol sorry, I suck, didn't notice the multiple previous posts saying the same thing somehow.

Edit 2: By the way, google reveals there's some other bug called the 'tunnel bug' that lets you unload units from an incomplete GLA tunnel network. Are you guys aware of this? Does it work on your patch version?

[quote="Nihilus"]Found and used another little glitch, when continuing a mission by exiting and hitting 'play again', NOT the 'restart' button in the ESC menu, your Promotion rank is kept.[/quote]

Hmm. I would advise you to PM Mike and get a ruling on whether this is allowed; it feels iffy to me because (if I'm understanding you correctly) it requires you to preplay the mission in order to get up to the desired rank before you choose Play Again. I know that glitches and exploits involving preplaying have been allowed before (like the replay glitch in GTA 3), but those were much more minor both in terms of the amount of preplaying required and the impact on gameplay. To be honest, my gut feeling is that this ought not to be allowed (sorry), but of course it's up to Mike.

Edit: Lol sorry, I suck, didn't notice the multiple previous posts saying the same thing somehow.

Edit 2: By the way, google reveals there's some other bug called the 'tunnel bug' that lets you unload units from an incomplete GLA tunnel network. Are you guys aware of this? Does it work on your patch version?

TheVoid

Edit history:

TheVoid: 2010-05-19 02:06:32 pm

2010-05-19 01:44:12 pm

Quote from ExplodingCabbage:

Edit 2: By the way, google reveals there's some other bug called the 'tunnel bug' that lets you unload units from an incomplete GLA tunnel network. Are you guys aware of this? Does it work on your patch version?

I just checked it and yes it works (Works the same like the SCUD bug. Put the complete Tunnel Network on a hotkey like CTRL+1, select the unfinished Tunnel Network (Can be entirely 0% built, only the structure needs to be visible) and put it on another hotkey like CTRL+2, press 1 and then SHIFT+2 and press V to evacuate them), could maybe be handy for GLA 5.

EDIT: It seems there's no need to put the finished Tunnel Network on a hotkey (Though it makes it easier...). Just give the other one a hotkey and then select the finished one and press SHIFT+number to select the unfinished one as well and press V to evacuate.

IsraeliRD

Edit history:

IsraeliRD: 2010-05-19 08:44:22 pm

2010-05-19 08:00:56 pm

Dragon Power Supreme

Edit: just noticed Nihilus was talking about USA6. Bleh.

Okay, my strat for this:
- Burton up the hill, get rid of stinger site first, then arms dealer, then black market and supply stash (so GLA wont rebuild, but its not necessary to destroy it). Knife workers. Try and kill quads first, then toxin tractors. Once thats done, remove palace and CC (remote control charge both but note it won't destroy them fully) and go south. Destroy tunnel network and stick to the right to bypass the Gattling cannon on the left. Then you can exit south.
China is revealed by now since you destroyed the GLA.
- FAB+3 A-10 combo on nuclear silo
- Burton destroyed Chinese CC to end the game

HOWEVER, I need to test this:
- Spy Sat on the Chinese base for nuke + CC
- FAB+3 A-10 combo on nuclear silo
- Build barracks, get capture buildings, send lvl 1 paradrop to capture the Chinese CC to end Chinese section (hopefully wont be attacked)
- Get burton to destroy the aforementioned stuff.

If promotion glitch allowed, then I'd go with lvl 3 paradrop just in case.
Particle cannon should be rendered useless this way.

Have fun Nihilus, I'll grab a different mission then.

Edit 2: You'll need lvl 3 paradrop for chinese base. I'd definitely recommend the glitch.

Edit: just noticed Nihilus was talking about USA6. Bleh.

Okay, my strat for this:
- Burton up the hill, get rid of stinger site first, then arms dealer, then black market and supply stash (so GLA wont rebuild, but its not necessary to destroy it). Knife workers. Try and kill quads first, then toxin tractors. Once thats done, remove palace and CC (remote control charge both but note it won't destroy them fully) and go south. Destroy tunnel network and stick to the right to bypass the Gattling cannon on the left. Then you can exit south.
China is revealed by now since you destroyed the GLA.
- FAB+3 A-10 combo on nuclear silo
- Burton destroyed Chinese CC to end the game

HOWEVER, I need to test this:
- Spy Sat on the Chinese base for nuke + CC
- FAB+3 A-10 combo on nuclear silo
- Build barracks, get capture buildings, send lvl 1 paradrop to capture the Chinese CC to end Chinese section (hopefully wont be attacked)
- Get burton to destroy the aforementioned stuff.

If promotion glitch allowed, then I'd go with lvl 3 paradrop just in case.
Particle cannon should be rendered useless this way.

Have fun Nihilus, I'll grab a different mission then.

Edit 2: You'll need lvl 3 paradrop for chinese base. I'd definitely recommend the glitch.

Nihilus

2010-05-19 10:32:39 pm

Oh, you can do that one if you were already working on it. Also, there's tons of money and stealth fighters can hit the command center relatively safely, and they only cost 1 point.

TheVoid

2010-05-19 11:44:59 pm

You can also build 6 Comaches and destroy the necessary GLA buildings and the China Command Center with them, while using A-10 and the Fuel Air Bomb on the Nuclear Missile while you're attacking the China Command Center.

Don't know if using Comanches is faster than using Burton, Comanches cost some time to build...

Nihilus

2010-05-20 04:48:58 am

HAHAHAHA, want some more hilarity?

I forgot to save the convo this time, but Mike said the promotion glitch is pretty iffy and maybe should be a community decision, and that IL's should probably be the level from scratch. So that's leaning towards a 'no', and I don't disagree. I like winning quickly, but I like playing fair more.

So I go back to redo China 7 without that glitch, do a quick practice on a save with the maphack to test aim and stuff, then to the actual level. On the VERY FIRST ATTEMPT of tonight, I shave 12 seconds off the old time, and that's WITHOUT the promotion glitch. Was much quicker with the fire tanks, they were able to do the job of what should have been a SCUD shot.

Still not perfect, infantry got hung up on tanks instead of capturing immediately, didnt build palace immediately. Could have retargeted both SCUDs to the top right, but since I didn't have the cash for Anthrax Beta this time, I kept one on the main base to make sure.

Attachment:

china 7 7.rep

IsraeliRD

2010-05-20 05:43:48 am

Dragon Power Supreme

What the heck how is that even possible?! Shocked

Yes, those red guards getting stuck on the overlord is really ugly. ~~You also missed a crate (and build some more workers) to get the cash~~ For the next attempt, while you are building your Palace, do this:

sell your barracks ($250), Arms Dealer ($1000), Supply Stash ($750) & Nuclear Reactor ($500) to ensure you get Anthrax Beta (which is $2500, the value of what we just sold)

. I know you'll hate me for mentioning this just now Wink

If you want extra annoyance for something that could possibly be useless, go get a technical from your captured arms dealer while the palace just starts to build (or save up the gattling tank to be shot by Mr. Kell instead of a Dragon Tank) and use it to get all the crates really fast (enough health vs speed trade-off to do so imo). You can then use the Dragon Tanks to burn the city GLA base and give yourself a pat on the back for doing something that probably didn't save time anyway but just looks better(?))

...

But then selling CC = $2500 + missing crate ($2500... yes, you missed THE ONLY CRATE which is $2500, the remainder are $1000!) which = $5000 or a third SCUD Storm.

Good luck beating the mission properly NOW.

What the heck how is that even possible?! :o

Yes, those red guards getting stuck on the overlord is really ugly. [s]You also missed a crate (and build some more workers) to get the cash[/s] For the next attempt, while you are building your Palace, do this: [spoiler]sell your barracks ($250), Arms Dealer ($1000), Supply Stash ($750) & Nuclear Reactor ($500) to ensure you get Anthrax Beta (which is $2500, the value of what we just sold)[/spoiler]. I know you'll hate me for mentioning this just now ;)

[spoiler]
If you want extra annoyance for something that could possibly be useless, go get a technical from your captured arms dealer while the palace just starts to build (or save up the gattling tank to be shot by Mr. Kell instead of a Dragon Tank) and use it to get all the crates really fast (enough health vs speed trade-off to do so imo). You can then use the Dragon Tanks to burn the city GLA base and give yourself a pat on the back for doing something that probably didn't save time anyway but just looks better(?))[/spoiler]

...
[spoiler]
But then selling CC = $2500 + missing crate ($2500... yes, you missed THE ONLY CRATE which is $2500, the remainder are $1000!) which = $5000 or a third SCUD Storm.

Good luck beating the mission properly NOW. [/spoiler]

Nihilus

2010-05-20 06:22:57 am

Ohh, didn't know about that crate. That must be why I was so much shorter on funds this time. Can't scrap the cc, need it to Artillery Strike, but selling stuff is a good idea. Jarmen's not a problem, only 1 needs to make it out of 3, and a slightly different path keeps them away from him. I wasn't watching, I just went to the preset map point and clicked. I don't think the technical would make it in time either. The Gattling tank could, but it's random if he survives and I need him to kill infantry. A 3rd SCUD is cutting it really close on time vs. another shot, I think I only need enough money for Beta, and have the tanks take out the 2 buildings, then each SCUD can target each building on the top right, for a few more seconds saved.

Oh, sell the cc immediately after the artillery, maybe. If that's enough cash right then and there, it might work. I got some free time while the first 2 fire their 2 shots each.

If I sell the reactor WHILE the palace is building, does it still build faster? I don't think so, that will have to wait for when they're firing. No problem though, everything else definitely gives enough cash for Beta.

Ohh, didn't know about that crate. That must be why I was so much shorter on funds this time. Can't scrap the cc, need it to Artillery Strike, but selling stuff is a good idea. Jarmen's not a problem, only 1 needs to make it out of 3, and a slightly different path keeps them away from him. I wasn't watching, I just went to the preset map point and clicked. I don't think the technical would make it in time either. The Gattling tank could, but it's random if he survives and I need him to kill infantry. A 3rd SCUD is cutting it really close on time vs. another shot, I think I only need enough money for Beta, and have the tanks take out the 2 buildings, then each SCUD can target each building on the top right, for a few more seconds saved.

Oh, sell the cc immediately after the artillery, maybe. If that's enough cash right then and there, it might work. I got some free time while the first 2 fire their 2 shots each.

If I sell the reactor WHILE the palace is building, does it still build faster? I don't think so, that will have to wait for when they're firing. No problem though, everything else definitely gives enough cash for Beta.

IsraeliRD

2010-05-20 06:37:32 am

Dragon Power Supreme

I don't think the palace builds faster with the reactor (not sure tbh) and the reason for gatting tank getting shot by jarmen is to get 1 dragon tank on cash and 2 dragon tanks for the 4 GLA city base buildings, thus you don't need artillery and therefore get 3 SCUDs at the same time.

Nihilus

2010-05-20 07:17:36 am

It builds quite a bit faster with the reactor, at one point I was getting lousy times when I stopped using MiGs and I didn't know why and that ended up being the cause. Got a good strat now, leave 1 dragon tank just outside of Jarmen's range making a fire wall, and it will attract the guys who would normally stop the ones on money. Need 2 for money because 1 always gets killed due to the 2 tunnel networks and stinger site. Attacking from the top is quite safe since anything created at that time is coming straight up at them, through the flame walls. I've tried attacking from the front before with the whole army, and it doesn't work. Too many defenses cluttering things up.

Not enough money for Beta AND a 3rd SCUD, but if they can consistently take out those 2 buildings, the 3rd one is all I need. I got it aimed good enough that without Beta, there's usually 1 or 2 GLA holes left for the north base, and if they retarget, those rebuild and the mission doesn't end.

I seriously doubt 3 Dragon Tanks can take all 4 by themselves since there's so many defensive buildings everywhere and dragon tanks die so quick. On one failed run where I was just microing them, I managed to reduce the last building to a GLA hole and take out all the rest. That could be finished off with a lvl 1 artillery, no need to wait any longer, but again that was where all I was doing was leading them around.

It builds quite a bit faster with the reactor, at one point I was getting lousy times when I stopped using MiGs and I didn't know why and that ended up being the cause. Got a good strat now, leave 1 dragon tank just outside of Jarmen's range making a fire wall, and it will attract the guys who would normally stop the ones on money. Need 2 for money because 1 always gets killed due to the 2 tunnel networks and stinger site. Attacking from the top is quite safe since anything created at that time is coming straight up at them, through the flame walls. I've tried attacking from the front before with the whole army, and it doesn't work. Too many defenses cluttering things up.

Not enough money for Beta AND a 3rd SCUD, but if they can consistently take out those 2 buildings, the 3rd one is all I need. I got it aimed good enough that without Beta, there's usually 1 or 2 GLA holes left for the north base, and if they retarget, those rebuild and the mission doesn't end.

I seriously doubt 3 Dragon Tanks can take all 4 by themselves since there's so many defensive buildings everywhere and dragon tanks die so quick. On one failed run where I was just microing them, I managed to reduce the last building to a GLA hole and take out all the rest. That could be finished off with a lvl 1 artillery, no need to wait any longer, but again that was where all I was doing was leading them around.

IsraeliRD

2010-05-20 07:26:43 am

Dragon Power Supreme

You raise good points there. How much money you have after massive sell-outs? I think you can maybe get the arms dealer red guard to go capture the derrick in the city? $1000 instant bonus. Probably not worth it but just tossing out ideas. A third SCUD def. seems to be way more useful because then its artillery on the city and 3 SCUDs on main base, but the Beta does end this 1 round faster, so its really a tie either way unless you can pull out both.

Also, is it 100% positive you can't cross the infantry at the starting roadblock on the snow? I'm pretty sure you can't, but for some reason this left side of it just seems passable.

There has to be some way to get more money. Workers can still be useful if you have some cash leftover, I know 7-8 is the optimal number of workers, maybe if you waste 1-2 secs to retarget a few on the other supplies it would go faster.

Nihilus

Edit history:

Nihilus: 2010-05-20 10:10:04 pm

2010-05-20 07:40:20 am

I think I had just under 3500 after 2 SCUDs, Beta, and selling everything else. Beta doesn't do it 1 round faster, it just guarantees I can retarget by removing any chance of the main base surviving 2 volleys. At least 1 more volley is always required for the top right, and a 3rd SCUD would do that faster than waiting for one of the 2 to reload again.

It will actually be pretty close between a 3rd SCUD taking out the top right base, or the 2 SCUDs reloading and hitting each building individually, potentially killing them in the first rocket thanks to Beta. Otherwise it will take an entire volley in between the 2 buildings to kill them both. That second one is also much easier to do, so maybe I should be practicing that.

Looks impassable to me. Those cars have a life bar, but a direct SCUD storm does no damage. I don't think they can capture that thing in time for the money to matter but maybe. I always used them as the SCUD squad, but now that I'm not using the main force, I could give anyone that duty. So that's a maybe.

Gunna stop for now, just not getting the luck. Or I do get the luck but the Arms Dealer blows up. Turns out rocket buggies are a good thing now, they take so long to build that my flame tanks can do their work before they decide to fight back.

Edit: Hehehe, new plan. Anthrax Beta, retarget the 2nd base after half the missiles have fired. Total of 4 volleys, 1 1/2 from each on the first base, then 1/2 from each on the second. I'm sure this can work.

Uploaded the 4:23, good to go on the first page until I do it better.

Posting here so that I don't forget: lvl 2 cash hack, 2 artillery. Flame tanks charge down the middle, one dies to Kell, artillery kills the barracks and arms dealer. One tank takes money, the other cleans house without opposition. CC sold. Might need to make sure gattling tank survives to help/die to Kell instead. Will make him his own squad to pick off rocket buggies, rocket soldiers, then catch up with flame tanks.

Doesn't quite work as-is in 4 volleys, BUT Anthrax Beta takes effect while the missiles are in the air. If I wait and fire once it's 3/8 researched, all missiles will hit with Beta power, then maybe.....
...Wow, it worked in practice, but just barely. The CC died from ANTHRAX EXPOSURE, not the missiles themselves. And it's 3 to the main base, 1 to the other, none of that half stuff as for some reason it only lets me retarget 1 half way through, never both. Weird.

I think I had just under 3500 after 2 SCUDs, Beta, and selling everything else. Beta doesn't do it 1 round faster, it just guarantees I can retarget by removing any chance of the main base surviving 2 volleys. At least 1 more volley is always required for the top right, and a 3rd SCUD would do that faster than waiting for one of the 2 to reload again.

It will actually be pretty close between a 3rd SCUD taking out the top right base, or the 2 SCUDs reloading and hitting each building individually, potentially killing them in the first rocket thanks to Beta. Otherwise it will take an entire volley in between the 2 buildings to kill them both. That second one is also much easier to do, so maybe I should be practicing that.

Looks impassable to me. Those cars have a life bar, but a direct SCUD storm does no damage. I don't think they can capture that thing in time for the money to matter but maybe. I always used them as the SCUD squad, but now that I'm not using the main force, I could give anyone that duty. So that's a maybe.

Gunna stop for now, just not getting the luck. Or I do get the luck but the Arms Dealer blows up. Turns out rocket buggies are a good thing now, they take so long to build that my flame tanks can do their work before they decide to fight back.

Edit: Hehehe, new plan. Anthrax Beta, retarget the 2nd base after half the missiles have fired. Total of 4 volleys, 1 1/2 from each on the first base, then 1/2 from each on the second. I'm sure this can work.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6KC8aoWLteA&feature=player_embedded Uploaded the 4:23, good to go on the first page until I do it better.

Posting here so that I don't forget: lvl 2 cash hack, 2 artillery. Flame tanks charge down the middle, one dies to Kell, artillery kills the barracks and arms dealer. One tank takes money, the other cleans house without opposition. CC sold. Might need to make sure gattling tank survives to help/die to Kell instead. Will make him his own squad to pick off rocket buggies, rocket soldiers, then catch up with flame tanks.

Doesn't quite work as-is in 4 volleys, BUT Anthrax Beta takes effect while the missiles are in the air. If I wait and fire once it's 3/8 researched, all missiles will hit with Beta power, then maybe.....
...Wow, it worked in practice, but just barely. The CC died from ANTHRAX EXPOSURE, not the missiles themselves. And it's 3 to the main base, 1 to the other, none of that half stuff as for some reason it only lets me retarget 1 half way through, never both. Weird.

IsraeliRD

Edit history:

IsraeliRD: 2010-05-24 11:42:05 pm

2010-05-21 02:38:26 am

Dragon Power Supreme

The GLA's CC needs an Anthrax vaccine as it seems Smiley

I've been tackling USA6, its been a lot harder than I expected. I do have a finalized strat though so I'm happy with it:

- Get a supply centre and get a 2nd chinhook. For $1200, on the third travel he's already profit.
- Double Air Force. One gets 4-5 commanches, the other gets rocket pods followed by 1-2 commanches (I think rocket pods builds slowly, so I'm getting only 1 commanche after it). I'm unsure whether 5 or 6 will be enough, I lost when I had 5 but I think I can manage that coz I screwed up.
- Burton should start going to the GLA base through the mountains.
- Spy Sattelite + 3 A-10 on a Gattling Cannon on the way to the Chinese base so my commanches won't die to it later
- Use Burton to own the GLA base's Arms Dealer, Black Market and Supply Stash and get rid of the 2 terrorists
- Fuel Air Bomb the GLA forces (2 quads, 2 toxin tractors, 1 SCUD Launcher) and get burton to finish the palace and CC.
- While thats happening, move commanches to the GLA base before moving them south. I gotta avoid some quad cannons on the way.
- Commanches own the Nuclear Missile and then I go for the Command Center. Rocket Pods own it.

Might be good: Get a strategy center + advanced training
Probably needed instead of these: Another 1-2 patriot missiles + control pods so Chinese attack will not kill me Sad

I'm looking at around 5 or less minutes completion time.

Edit- I changed how I do the mission so I finish it faster. I get 8 commanches so both GLA and Chinese bases are beaten around the same time (comms get china, burton finishes the GLA). I'll go ahead and start recording later today.

Edit 2: I'm playing with some strategies in my head that could yield a faster time. I actually have to attempt them to see if they work.

Edit 3: Got a final strat. I tried a super fast one that in my head worked but the game surprised me with a few things that made it impossible to beat the mission using that strat. The current strat I'm looking at sub-5 for sure. Let's see how low this can go.

The GLA's CC needs an Anthrax vaccine as it seems :)

I've been tackling USA6, its been a lot harder than I expected. I do have a finalized strat though so I'm happy with it:

- Get a supply centre and get a 2nd chinhook. For $1200, on the third travel he's already profit.
- Double Air Force. One gets 4-5 commanches, the other gets rocket pods followed by 1-2 commanches (I think rocket pods builds slowly, so I'm getting only 1 commanche after it). I'm unsure whether 5 or 6 will be enough, I lost when I had 5 but I think I can manage that coz I screwed up.
- Burton should start going to the GLA base through the mountains.
- Spy Sattelite + 3 A-10 on a Gattling Cannon on the way to the Chinese base so my commanches won't die to it later
- Use Burton to own the GLA base's Arms Dealer, Black Market and Supply Stash and get rid of the 2 terrorists
- Fuel Air Bomb the GLA forces (2 quads, 2 toxin tractors, 1 SCUD Launcher) and get burton to finish the palace and CC. 
- While thats happening, move commanches to the GLA base before moving them south. I gotta avoid some quad cannons on the way.
- Commanches own the Nuclear Missile and then I go for the Command Center. Rocket Pods own it.

Might be good: Get a strategy center + advanced training
Probably needed instead of these: Another 1-2 patriot missiles + control pods so Chinese attack will not kill me :(

I'm looking at around 5 or less minutes completion time.

Edit- I changed how I do the mission so I finish it faster. I get 8 commanches so both GLA and Chinese bases are beaten around the same time (comms get china, burton finishes the GLA). I'll go ahead and start recording later today.

Edit 2: I'm playing with some strategies in my head that could yield a faster time. I actually have to attempt them to see if they work.

Edit 3: Got a final strat. I tried a super fast one that in my head worked but the game surprised me with a few things that made it impossible to beat the mission using that strat. The current strat I'm looking at sub-5 for sure. Let's see how low this can go.

Nihilus

2010-05-28 05:14:52 am

Same deal for me kinda. All my super fast ideas seem to not work. The final run, once I pull it off, will be very similar to the last one I posted. Just came here to say that I'm off to Fanime til monday! It's a big anime convention in San Jose. Still working on this, got nearly the same time on a few occasions, still imperfect due to different errors each time. Will pick this up on monday, or more realistically, tuesday.

TheVoid

2010-06-01 02:57:47 pm

I've been a little busy with something else lately and I haven't touched speedrunning in like 2 or 3 weeks...

Anyway, today I decided to tackle GLA 7 again and I managed to chop off 5 more seconds to a 4:51 (Previously there was a 5:00 listed but this time I stopped timing when the HUD disappeared, I think that's the proper place to stop timing since you already lose control there. The cursor is still visible though but black borders appear and the cutscene is about to kick in). Video in first post.

IsraeliRD

2010-06-02 10:58:33 am

Dragon Power Supreme

Same here guys Sad

Great video TheVoid, I can't believe how close that was with the Tomahawk missile at the end there.

Okay, now that university is *mostly* out of the way, I got to run USA 6.
After numerous attempts, I have on video 3:08 (5699 frames, 1 frame short of 3:09!). I've had many 3:13-3:15s & some 3:20s, but I figured out a better burton usage which contributed to cut those important seconds:

This level is... hell. The RNG is totally messed up. I aim for 2 RNG points that unless both occur at specific times, you can't get such a good time:
- China base does not activate early (the time it did I consider as a "very late stage" which is great and does not waste any time. I've had a number of attempts where it never activated even while I was in their base). So many attempts lost due to that activating earlier.
- GLA does NOT send its secondary troops to burton (2 quad cannons, 2 toxin tractors, some RPG Troopers). If they do, I have to pause him to become camouflaged, then re-attack (this way they don't attack him, just stop in their tracks). This is extremely rare to get for me.

I don't know how burton survived that toxin tractor, but he did Shocked

I also got surprisingly good luck:
- A terrorist took down some health of the supply stash
- 1-2 terrorists took down some health of the Chinese CC

Time to steamroll China 3!

Same here guys :(

Great video TheVoid, I can't believe how close that was with the Tomahawk missile at the end there.

Okay, now that university is *mostly* out of the way, I got to run USA 6.
After numerous attempts, I have on video 3:08 (5699 frames, 1 frame short of 3:09!). I've had many 3:13-3:15s & some 3:20s, but I figured out a better burton usage which contributed to cut those important seconds:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dyfuaaU9IQ8

This level is... hell. The RNG is totally messed up. I aim for 2 RNG points that unless both occur at specific times, you can't get such a good time:
- China base does not activate early (the time it did I consider as a "very late stage" which is great and does not waste any time. I've had a number of attempts where it never activated even while I was in their base). So many attempts lost due to that activating earlier.
- GLA does NOT send its secondary troops to burton (2 quad cannons, 2 toxin tractors, some RPG Troopers). If they do, I have to pause him to become camouflaged, then re-attack (this way they don't attack him, just stop in their tracks). This is extremely rare to get for me.

I don't know how burton survived that toxin tractor, but he did :o
I also got surprisingly good luck:
- A terrorist took down some health of the supply stash
- 1-2 terrorists took down some health of the Chinese CC

Time to steamroll China 3!

TheVoid

2010-06-03 01:19:24 pm

After watching your USA 6 run I somehow had the feeling that it could go faster, so after some checking and attempting I managed to improve it with 10 seconds to a 2:58. The run isn't that much different, key thing in this level is to keep Burton busy and do the other stuff in the meantime.

IsraeliRD

2010-06-03 04:59:23 pm

Dragon Power Supreme

Dude this is seriously awesome. Great job there. I didn't even think it'd be possible to get all the Chinhooks there alive. Burton usage was also better, plus no need to get rid of those toxin tractors. Probably the reason why the GLA never sent quad/toxin tractors after you.

Great usage of the strategy, and seeing this done sub-3 minutes is way more than I ever hoped to see in that mission. Very well done!

IsraeliRD

Edit history:

IsraeliRD: 2010-06-10 07:56:53 am

2010-06-07 08:04:18 am

Dragon Power Supreme

~~Apparently you cannot edit your post and add in an attachment...~~ I need to press modify, not the quick edit button. And now I can't delete the post Undecided

Got 3:19 on China 3. Very happy with it.
I've done a better Lotus job and also had to replay a couple of times for less "laggy" cutscene. My problem is that when the dam breaks, the game starts to lag on me, usually hitting 14-18 fps, with sometimes going back to the 20s. This attempt I had less lag, but still some is present.
At any event, I'm using manual timing since it's more accurate than frame count. I'll add the YT upload in the next few days. For now, I'm attaching the replay file.

Edit: oopsie, didn't notice but a Technical stopped Lotus, so I lost ~1 second. 3:18 might be possible then. All other factors are fine, though. Will probably re-record then and see if I hit the 3:18 or get pissed off and leave it as is.

Edit:
Wow, this went a lot better and smoother. The lagging cutscene is still a "eh" for me but was average or tad better so I'm accepting it. Remainder of level went perfect, no time loss anywhere.
Final Time: 3:17

China 2: Dragon Tanks and attack convention/carpark and win? Game won't start attacking with car bombs etc before you get a CC. CC should probably be gotten AFTER the WF is built.

China 4: Doesn't make sense- the scripts don't make any sense anyway. I can't decide if you need to get all stinger sites and chemical plants or only stinger sites or only final stinger site or only chemical plant. I can tell that the game won't start GLA base and other stuff until you get the outpost (chinese WF), but otherwise... this will need a ton of experimenting I think.

Edit:
GLA 4 had been taken down by a strategy I'm really happy with. 1 sec coulda been saved if I saw the corner quad (for some reason I was led to believe it died...) and 2-3 secs probably with better execution. I'll definitely try and run this mission more, but I'm seriously happy with this time.
3:57 Smiley

(Even though it seems a good idea to have that lonely quad in a group, it actually doesn't save time. At the end where I'm going for the CC it will definitely help out, but otherwise it should only be used for the nearest structures.)

Another edit:
No new times to post, but GLA 4 is pissing me off big time. It's so random. I think I'll get up some more terrorists while the quads are doing their jobs, maybe they'll do the trick.

I also attempted China 5 using 2 new strats, both of which have this major time saver:
Use only the starting forces you have (2 DT, 2 TC). Technically possible, but I faced problems:

There's a stupid terrorist car bomb on my way. My DT autolock on the civilian structure next to it which means I lost a DT. However, I did manage twice to get the DT to destroy the car bomb before doing the building.
When I get to the final base, I'll only have 1 DT since the 2nd one always goes to the southern outpost.
There's the train full of terrorists arriving at the start.

I get a WF first thing with a TC+BN upgrade, TC goes to train location; solves terrorist problems.

The TP tell me all traps positions which is good. I also end up with 16 red guards (TCs) to get rid of the stinger site and if I'm lucky enough, even the tunnel network, which leaves the barracks (simple) and terrorists. However, the dragon tank is annoying as because it has to take on 4 buildings by itself, and that's no small feat. Survival is a major factor here. Also, this takes time, which I obviously can't afford. It can do both Palace and BM at the same time (then palace only, then CC, then SS). The question is therefore whether I save time. I thought of it and tested it:
- I managed to reach the final base and either the game glitched, or I was some hugely lucky, because the first bunker I encountered didn't even have the infantry in it (they were waiting just outside) so I can't tell if I'm fast or not. Couldn't get it in real attempts.

I also tried usage of Lotus to capture all buildings. Good in theory and in practice it does seem possible. I can't tell whether it is faster or not.
The car bomb at the start, assuming I want 100% kill, is get 2 MiGs, locate and destroy.

I'm definitely gonna give this more attempts. I want to try out seeing if I can spam TC/DT on the southern base and hope something even reaches it (DT preferrably Tongue

) and thus I can concentrate 16 RG and 2 DT on the main base. RG get barracks, 2 DTs are a bit simplier to control. Just a bit.
Or: get DTs spammed to the middle and get one of them to the south to destroy it. At any event, there's a ton to do and a lot of experimentation but as you can see no new times were reached. Closest I got was a 3:59.

[s]Apparently you cannot edit your post and add in an attachment... :([/s] I need to press modify, not the quick edit button. And now I can't delete the post :-\

Got 3:19 on China 3. Very happy with it.
I've done a better Lotus job and also had to replay a couple of times for less "laggy" cutscene. My problem is that when the dam breaks, the game starts to lag on me, usually hitting 14-18 fps, with sometimes going back to the 20s. This attempt I had less lag, but still some is present.
At any event, I'm using manual timing since it's more accurate than frame count. I'll add the YT upload in the next few days. For now, I'm attaching the replay file.

Edit: oopsie, didn't notice but a Technical stopped Lotus, so I lost ~1 second. 3:18 might be possible then. All other factors are fine, though.  Will probably re-record then and see if I hit the 3:18 or get pissed off and leave it as is.

Edit:
Wow, this went a lot better and smoother. The lagging cutscene is still a "eh" for me but was average or tad better so I'm accepting it. Remainder of level went perfect, no time loss anywhere.
Final Time: 3:17

China 2: Dragon Tanks and attack convention/carpark and win? Game won't start attacking with car bombs etc before you get a CC. CC should probably be gotten AFTER the WF is built.

China 4: Doesn't make sense- the scripts don't make any sense anyway. I can't decide if you need to get all stinger sites and chemical plants or only stinger sites or only final stinger site or only chemical plant. I can tell that the game won't start GLA base and other stuff until you get the outpost (chinese WF), but otherwise... this will need a ton of experimenting I think.

Edit:
GLA 4 had been taken down by a strategy I'm really happy with. 1 sec coulda been saved if I saw the corner quad (for some reason I was led to believe it died...) and 2-3 secs probably with better execution. I'll definitely try and run this mission more, but I'm seriously happy with this time.
3:57 :)
(Even though it seems a good idea to have that lonely quad in a group, it actually doesn't save time. At the end where I'm going for the CC it will definitely help out, but otherwise it should only be used for the nearest structures.)

Another edit:
No new times to post, but GLA 4 is pissing me off big time. It's so random. I think I'll get up some more terrorists while the quads are doing their jobs, maybe they'll do the trick.

I also attempted China 5 using 2 new strats, both of which have this major time saver:
Use only the starting forces you have (2 DT, 2 TC). Technically possible, but I faced problems:
[list]
[li]There's a stupid terrorist car bomb on my way. My DT autolock on the civilian structure next to it which means I lost a DT. However, I did manage twice to get the DT to destroy the car bomb before doing the building.[/li]
[li]When I get to the final base, I'll only have 1 DT since the 2nd one always goes to the southern outpost.[/li]
[li]There's the train full of terrorists arriving at the start.[/li]
[/list]

I get a WF first thing with a TC+BN upgrade, TC goes to train location; solves terrorist problems.

The TP tell me all traps positions which is good. I also end up with 16 red guards (TCs) to get rid of the stinger site and if I'm lucky enough, even the tunnel network, which leaves the barracks (simple) and terrorists. However, the dragon tank is annoying as because it has to take on 4 buildings by itself, and that's no small feat. Survival is a major factor here. Also, this takes time, which I obviously can't afford. It can do both Palace and BM at the same time (then palace only, then CC, then SS). The question is therefore whether I save time. I thought of it and tested it:
- I managed to reach the final base and either the game glitched, or I was some hugely lucky, because the first bunker I encountered didn't even have the infantry in it (they were waiting just outside) so I can't tell if I'm fast or not. Couldn't get it in real attempts.

I also tried usage of Lotus to capture all buildings. Good in theory and in practice it does seem possible. I can't tell whether it is faster or not.
The car bomb at the start, assuming I want 100% kill, is get 2 MiGs, locate and destroy.

I'm definitely gonna give this more attempts. I want to try out seeing if I can spam TC/DT on the southern base and hope something even reaches it (DT preferrably :P ) and thus I can concentrate 16 RG and 2 DT on the main base. RG get barracks, 2 DTs are a bit simplier to control. Just a bit. 
Or: get DTs spammed to the middle and get one of them to the south to destroy it. At any event, there's a ton to do and a lot of experimentation but as you can see no new times were reached. Closest I got was a 3:59.

Attachments:

China3Attempt18.rep

GLA4Attempt14.rep